Anyone else who is now bored of the homosexuality thread:

Would you rather have 15 minutes of fame and a universally despised credit to your name, or never get a credit at all, and why?

Yeh, this is a silly Q at heart, but it beats constant chess-like homosexuality threads!

Me, I would prefer to write something that was due to go big, and then flopped hugely, but get a little taste of the cherry.

You?

Andrew

Quoted from Andrew Would you rather have 15 minutes of fame and a universally despised credit to your name, or never get a credit at all, and why?

You could argue that, while it generally sucks to be dispised, at least you wrote something that affected a lot of people (for better or worse). I guess it boils down to what your end-goal in life is...is it the fame and fortune - like all those simple minded motherfucking twats from [insert any reality tv-show here] - or is it simply to have a good life that you can be proud of. I personally prefer the latter...but I wouldn't run away from the fortune if it came knocking on my door.

Andrew, I hear you on that.

Q- Whats that sound.
A- The screaming of a thread being beaten to death.

Are you talking despised like billy ray cirus - achey breaky heart kind of fame?

Then NO, local fame works for me.

Movie wise we would be talking WATER WORLD. That movie sunk in America before it was ever released.

Myself, I would like a modest movie, some thing to add to my resume. I don't think I was ever cut out for large success. Now large failure, Ive tasted and will again for sure. Thats the nature of trying.

Shawn.....><

I wouldn't want fame for anything. I'm not into that. I'm not even that crazy about praise. Makes me feel uncomfortable.

Quoted from sniper like all those simple minded motherfucking twats from [insert any reality tv-show here]

Are you aware that I'm trying to produce a reality tv show and one member here wants to be in it??  

Quoted from Grandma Bear I wouldn't want fame for anything. I'm not into that. I'm not even that crazy about praise. Makes me feel uncomfortable.

You're the greatest, Sweedy. You rock at what you do like no other.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Are you aware that I'm trying to produce a reality tv show and one member here wants to be in it??

Whoops  

I forget who originally posed the question on another thread, but it is a good one:

Try to name 5 famous screenwriters.  No googling -- off the top of your head.

There are probably a few of us here that can do it, but the general public -- never.

Money is nice, and we all hope for it -- but if you are seeking fame, you will not find it in screenwriting.

But as to the original question -- had I written "Showgirls", I would laugh myself to sleep every night and be proud of it.

The only screenwriter I can think of who is mainstream famous would be QT (although he's famous for directing as well). Wait...James Cameron is a screenwriter first and foremost - he's pretty famous too. So's George Lucas.

Most people I know can’t name any screenwriters unless they’re also directors, like Quentin Tarentino. I would rather have recognition in the field more so than fame. I would like movies made from my scripts to be famous. But I’d also like people to be able to find out I wrote them. So I know I want credit for my work. I want to be respected as a writer. I would also like to inspire people. I think that's fairly natural though. As far as money, I ask only to make a living and to have a life that inspires my work.

Breanne

And of course, "Mr. Showgirls" himself,  Joe Ezsterhas!!!!!

I'd love to have Joe's fame...or infamy.  A true legend...

Just to say, it IS possible to become famous as a screenwriter. Look at Aaron Sorkin, Charlie Kaufman...it happens. You just need to be really, really good at the thing you're known for - for Sorkin, that's dialogue, for Kaufman, it's writing plots that everybody has to take an asprin before they can follow.

There's also people who bounce from project to project, professionals (but not what you'd call 'masters' like Sorkin and Kaufman) like David Koepp and Roberto Orci. Oh, and the guys that wrote the last few Bond films...Purvis and that other guy. Actually, Kaufman's a director now, isn't he? But he was famous as a screenwriter first.

Let's see...five screenwriters, top of my head?  Mike Figgis, Joel & Ethan Coen, Diablo Cody, Nicholas Pillegi, Bill Monahan and Shamalayn. Usta know the guys that wrote Casablanca, but it escapes me at the moment...Epstien? (Not Juan)...

I'd be happy if I earned enough screenwriting to buy a really nice guitar. Nicer than my wife would ever let me get with any "real" money...

I think John August is a good writer, and he's a homosexual.

Whoops, am I derailing?

Shelton Shelton. You've had me laughing all evening. I may have to join your fan club. Do i have to be gay?

Greg Mclean...one of my faves...he'll be hitting big time very soon.  Watch out for him.  Well, you don't literally have to be looking out for him to like smash into you or anything...but...oh sorry...WTF?

Oh yeah, Greg Mclean is a writer that I'd call out in my 1st 5 faves...off the top of my head.

Quoted from bert Try to name 5 famous screenwriters.  No googling -- off the top of your head. There are probably a few of us here that can do it, but the general public -- never.

David Koepp, David Mamet, David Goyer, Johnathan Hensleigh and Steven E. De Sousa. =)

I just wanted to name the first ones that came to mind that I like. =)

EDIT: I could've gone the Cameron route. The Tarantino route. The Oliver Stone route. Fucking Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman... I wish those two were fucking dead. If anyone here is secretly Orci or Kurtzman, I despise you but I would like to know how you two keep getting jobs?

Mike Shelton. Even if he is a white rapper. Or a Mexican. Or...  

Sandra

My favorite screenwriters have always been directors as well. With the exception of Charlie Kaufman, I've never been a fan of the "big" screenwriters in Hollywood. David Koepp, William Goldman, John August, etc... None of them bad screenwriters. They've definitely written some good scripts but their overall bodies of work aren't spectacular, at least to me (although Goldman's written some major classics). The rest of them never seem to have enough of a body of work to be either recognized or judged. For example, I think Tony Gayton (Murder By Numbers, The Salton Sea) might be a really good screenwriter but all he's done is those two films so I can't really say.

To answer the question of the thread, I'd most certainly rather have nobody know who I am. I'd be much happier simply writing good movies that people enjoy without worrying about who wrote it. Does anyone really want a universally despised name?

^^ Does anyone want a universally loved name?

Probably. Not me personally but just the same. Certainly more people than those who want to be despised.

I'd rather write a movie that everybody likes but doesn't know who wrote it than a movie that sucks but gets me famous.  Obviously I'd take the money over fame, I don't think I'd handle fame to well, I'd get bored too easily.

You'd think Adam Sandler would give up after all his failed and flawed attempts at Comedy, but you can clearly see he's very comfortable in the spotlight of his medocrity... Same with Seth Rogan and all the other slop dongs he's cast opposite of.  That entire brood is so unfunny and so untalented it makes me wonder if they've pondered this very topic.

Since we know most of them "try" to write their own material... I say "try" very loosely too.

As for me, I don't care... if the movie is made and it's good. Great. If it's made and it's bad... fine. Most people don't even know who screenwriters are anyways. The common population of movie goers are so unintelligent that they probably believe the actors are so talented that they simply come up with the story and dialogue on the fly as they work off one another on the screen...

The movie audience are comprised of morons... That's why the "BIG" movies at the box office suck the donkey consistantly... That's also why we have a billion remakes and follow ups too.  

Me, myself, I can only ride a roller coaster so many times or visit a wax museum so many times before it looses its appeal... The average movie goer; not so much. Them idiots are lining up to see Twilight 20, Harry Potter 50 and Spider man 10 as we speak...

And for the event they can't get to the movies they have plenty of idiot fuel at home to watch... Operation Repo, Cake Boss, LA INK, The Hills and any and all other reality tv shows back that claim up. Sadly, the same people buy into these shows being real and completely unscripted too...

My point, who needs screenwriters?  Just ask Hollywood... They've treated the screenwriter like shit since the inception.

Haha!

Bert, just as in a previous thread, you have planted an odd - but very amusing - image in my head! I, too, would laugh myself to sleep having written 'Showgirls'!

The satisfaction of having created something, which would have entertained x number of people is what motivates me. I think of the reverence I feel towards people like Cameron Crowe, and would love to inspire people in a similar way.

Re: fame; that's not something I seek, but I guess, professional recognition would motivate me. Maybe I have some security deficit, but that allures me more than fame, which is tinged - as Sniper noted - with a shallow, and ultimately empty result.

Ultimately, I want to create and just to be working full-time in the industry is the goal; to wake up every single morning knowing that you will help collaborate on something that enriches others' lives - that's got to be a buzz. Here's to hoping.

Oh, and Shelton, that's two on the LOL front with your contribution here.

Andrew

This phrase nearly made it this week...

Quoted from Baltis. ...suck the donkey...

But this was definitely my favourite phrase of the week...

Quoted from Baltis. ...slop dongs...

Not a phrase you hear every day but remember, you could help change that.

Quoted from Baltis. My point, who needs screenwriters?  Just ask Hollywood... They've treated the screenwriter like shit since the inception.

Amen. But there are so many of them, working for nothing, churning out hundreds of scripts each week it's not really a surprise is it? It's nothing personal for them to treat screenwriters that way, it's just business. Or so they say.
But, they do treat a chosen few like gold, and they also pay a small fortune to some.

I'd like to write a few scripts that get made into good films. If I got paid for it as well that would be great. Would I sell out and churn out some of that stuff with 'slop dongs' that 'suck donkeys' if requested? I certainly hope not. But then again, I've done some really horrible jobs for, and with some detestable people. Ho hum.

Slop dongs! Remember, say it at least once a day, you will enjoy it.

Quoted from Andrew Anyone else who is now bored of the homosexuality thread: Would you rather have 15 minutes of fame and a universally despised credit to your name, or never get a credit at all, and why? Me, I would prefer to write something that was due to go big, and then flopped hugely, but get a little taste of the cherry. You? Andrew

I like cherries. They're right up their with tacos. Anyways, I think I like the idea of keeping a low profile. I hate it when people start silly fan clubs and then the poor idolized writer gets despised credit to his name. It's really a messy outcome, like gay parades, very jammin'.

Sandra

I love writing but my relatively desperate need of money is stronger right now.

In order, it goes: Perfectionism > Money > Great script > Fame.

If I sell a script, it changes to this: Great script > Money > Perfectionism > Fame.

Yay. =)

Without going into any further consequences or assumptions that could arise from the question, I would say it's better to have the credit than none at all. At least you got there.


On a purely theoretical note, it is hard to envision a film that was universally "despised". Unrated maybe. But to actually get everyone to despise it would be almost impossible. It would have to be genius in it's own way.

A really bad film will just be forgotten, actually attracting hate it would have to be perversley magnificent.

"Try to name 5 famous screenwriters.  No googling -- off the top of your head.

There are probably a few of us here that can do it, but the general public -- never."


The only "popular" screenwriters are the ones who direct as well, such as QT, Woody Allen, Ingmar Bergman, David Lynch, Francis Ford Coppola, Wes Anderson, Coen Bros or Pedro Almovodar. Bert is correct in saying that screenwriting alone won't get you the fame. But I say, fu?k it, they get to work on what they truly want to do for a living while more than adequately supporting themselves, nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.

It should not be forgotten either that a lot of the big directors, past and present help out extensively in developing the script once it's decided on, sometimes receiving a credit too e.g Kubrick, Cuaron, Hitchcock, Gondry, Spielberg, and Scorsese.

So the message to all screenwriters is this: If you want fame, glitz, glamour and photo with Paris or Megan start getting to grips with a camera or take a course in acting. Putting the words on page simply won't be enough.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 But I say, fu?k it, they get to work on what they truly want to do for a living while more than adequately supporting themselves, nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely the same for me. It sounds twee, but being adequately remunerated and waking up each morning with the 'I can't wait to get to work' is much more desirable than extra pay, and hitting the snooze button 15 times to - hopelessly - escape the working day.

Quoted from Baltis- My point, who needs screenwriters?  Just ask Hollywood... They've treated the screenwriter like s*** since the inception.

This is a really good point, and taps into the heart of my initial post - this is a popularly held view, so why do so many people seek entry with this knowledge?

Andrew

Quoted from Andrew This is a really good point, and taps into the heart of my initial post - this is a popularly held view, so why do so many people seek entry with this knowledge? Andrew

They seek it for acceptance... To be the "ONE" who breaks the mold and changes things up. They seek it for the same reasons many buy lottery tickets each week even... For the chance that "maybe" their voice will or could be heard by more than their immediate arms length of contacts.

People, as much as they say they don't care for the acceptance, still really do want to be known for something.  And it doesn't matter if they were liked, loved or hated for that something...

If you look at Hollywood and not just the exterior of it... You'll see that 95% of the industry are made up of self loathing, despicable people who have great charisma. Christian Bale is a good person to bring up right now... That guy is a complete Twat Rash. He's a prick and one of the most intensely rude ass holes I've ever seen. What good has he really ever done?  But... people love him. They accept him... He knows he's a strange smack. He knows that, on a personal level, no one could possibly like him and that's fine with him... know why? Cos' people accept him for "something".

This would also probably go hand in foot with the mindset of a serial killer even. As off topic as that would be.  

Christian Bale is on a fucking ego trip. I mean he's given good performances but now it's just lazy ejaculations and he's shooting blanks on the film. He was the weakest link of The Dark Knight and I avoided Terminator Salvation because the whole experience of that film looked like shit.

But even as much of a cunt as he is, his rant made on fucking good remix.

Ahhh, but Christian was immense as Patrick Bateman.

Andrew

Agreed, he was class as Bateman.  His outburst was well funny though.

Aye, it was.

I heard a radio interview where he apologised, and that seemed pretty genuine.

Not that I endorse psychopathic - potential - killers, but here's some of his best:

"You're a fucking ugly bitch. I want to stab you to death, and then play around with your blood."

"I want you to clean your vagina."

"I have to return some videotapes."

"Jean: What's that?
Patrick Bateman: Duct tape. I need it for... taping something."

"As we arrive at Espace I'm on the verge of tears as I'm certain we won't get a decent table. But we do; relief washes over me in an awesome wave."

"Just cool it with the anti-Semitic remarks."

"[after being kicked in the face by Christie the call girl] Not the face! You bitch! Not the fucking face, you piece of bitch trash!"

"New York Matinee called it "a playful but mysterious little dish."

A misogynistic pr*ck, but what a compelling and well-written character.

Take a bow, Patrick Bateman.

Andrew

Quoted from Baltis. They seek it for acceptance... To be the "ONE" who breaks the mold and changes things up. They seek it for the same reasons many buy lottery tickets each week even... For the chance that "maybe" their voice will or could be heard by more than their immediate arms length of contacts. People, as much as they say they don't care for the acceptance, still really do want to be known for something.  And it doesn't matter if they were liked, loved or hated for that something... If you look at Hollywood and not just the exterior of it... You'll see that 95% of the industry are made up of self loathing, despicable people who have great charisma. Christian Bale is a good person to bring up right now... That guy is a complete Twat Rash. He's a prick and one of the most intensely rude ass holes I've ever seen. What good has he really ever done?  But... people love him. They accept him... He knows he's a strange smack. He knows that, on a personal level, no one could possibly like him and that's fine with him... know why? Cos' people accept him for "something". This would also probably go hand in foot with the mindset of a serial killer even. As off topic as that would be.

I personally don't think it is either as cynical or psychological as that, although of course it's different for everybody.

I think most people who get into writing or filmmaking in general do it because they like movies and just want to see their ideas on film and share them with other people.

Making movies is in some way like an adult (or at least adolescent) way of continuing to play with toy figures isn't it?

As a kid I would build castles and such for my Star Wars figures and GI Joes (Action Force in the UK) and create whole new world's and stories for them. Long term I want to make those same fantastical stories on film.

Most people, I suspect, think that there just aren't that many movies made that are good enough. We all think we could tell a better story than 99% of the stuff that is out there given a chance.

It's also a great way of meeting people and getting to travel a bit. And yes, there are some nice girls to be met along the way...


Actually, I've changed my mind. You were right all along.

I think it depends on why you write, actually. I'd like to think that it's different for screenwriters than for aspiring actors/directors because they're not usually associated with the big paychecks (remember the WGA strike?), fame and Hollywood lifestyle. I'd hope that people who write with those goals in mind give up about 20 pages into their first screenplay because it's too much work or harder than they were expecting. The realist in me has to side with Baltis though. Screenwriting is just another quick avenue in many's eyes to make their voice heard and get the attention they feel they deserve.

Turning to the thread's original question, I often write by drawing aspects from my own life (people, places, situations, feelings) and would hate to see something so personal flop (try reading some of Charlie Kaufman's interviews on the critical reception for 'Synecdoche, New York.') Could money really fix that?

Now if it was something I was less emotionally invested in, say "Showgirls" as brought up earlier, who wouldn't get a kick out of telling someone you wrote something that went on to be considered one of the worst films ever made? If you got into the business for fame, then even making something terrible can still help you achieve this goal. That's why I think it all goes back to why we write.

As to the earlier challenge in this thread...
Charlie Kaufman (one of the few writer/directors who became famous before he was directing), Diablo Cody, Judd Apatow, John August and Paul Haggis (or did he direct 'Crash'?).

Kaufman indeed was very famous before he took to directing. Famous for all the best reasons too: he wrote two great screenplays that people loved, they'll love 'em for a long time to come too. Now to do that or something, even near or on the way would be great.
I loved both of those stories so I had high hopes for Synedoche NY. Oh my. Great actors and it started off interesting enough then, what the hell was all that about? I'm still bewildered now. I really don't wanna watch it again yet either.

I just watched Highlander on Blu-Ray (stop sniggering at the back). It has an interview on it with the screenwriter Greg Widen. He wrote it when he was in film school. First script. They brought in two other guys to make it more commercial but the vast majority of his original script remained. The writer made a fortune, saw nearly all of his script brought to life and that film is still loved and watched by many people still to this day. Must be a nice feeling.

"I loved both of those stories so I had high hopes for Synedoche NY. Oh my. Great actors and it started off interesting enough then, what the hell was all that about? I'm still bewildered now. I really don't wanna watch it again yet either."

-- I was unsure of it too after the first watch but I knew more was waiting for me in repeated viewings. I've gone back to it three times since and continually pick up new details, nuances and subtlties interspersed within the subtext as well as gaining a greater understanding of the story and concept as a whole.

Unfortunately, my feeble, little brain cannot articulate how this movie moved and affected me. All I can say is Kaufman has created something very special with this by pentrating further and deeper then ever before into the (to paraphrase Caden) murky, cowardly depths of the lonely, fu?ked human psych. It will, in my worthless opinion, be fully appreciated and cherished more than his previous works, over time.

Charlie Kaufman, I salute thee.

Oh don't say that Col, I'll have to start thinking about it again. I do remember being ready to burst into tears for the latter half, most unsettling as I didn't even why, and I was in a cinema full of tossers at the time.
That does it, I'm gonna watch Highlander again.

Col and rendevous,

You are both reminding me how I need to catch this film.

Out of interest, how would you pitch the film against 'Mulholland Drive'? I'm sure the narratives are not that comparable, but from what I've heard, 'Synecdoche, New York' appears to track similar intellectual/mindf*ck ground as that masterpiece from Lynch.

Andrew

Quoted from Andrew Col and rendevous, You are both reminding me how I need to catch this film. Out of interest, how would you pitch the film against 'Mulholland Drive'? I'm sure the narratives are not that comparable, but from what I've heard, 'Synecdoche, New York' appears to track similar intellectual/mindf*ck ground as that masterpiece from Lynch. Andrew

Mullholland Drive is brilliant at it's most mindless core even... 1 of the most bizarre and unsettling movies made. It was written with such precision it's crazy how little it is regarded.  David Lynch was, is and will always be one of the true greats in the business.

First of all I do love Lynch, his movies always made me feel intrigued and slightly unsettled. Note to self: buy that copy of Inland Empire you keep looking at in the shop then putting back on the shelf.
I liked Mulholland Drive, watched it at least three times. It probably made the most sense the first time. I felt Lynch was laying puzzles that couldn't really be solved. I love the strange feelings and emotions of Lynch films like this, I become immersed in a story that I couldn't summarise to save my life.

Synedoodah is a different movie in my mind. I felt like I should understand it, in that it's there to be understood, but I didn't. I thought MH was something I never really should understand or that anyone would. The colonel just stated what I suspected, he's good at that. They're similar in that they aren't your regular plot, far from it. They are gentle and subtle mind fucks. I do know this, they stick in your mind way more than other stuff does.

Are you in a washing machine?

Hahaha!

I loved how you gave a lovely little succinct answer to my question and then as an aside, dropped in the washing machine Q!!



I am indeed, and it was rather difficult getting out. The things we do for girlfriends.

Quoted from Baltis- Mullholland Drive is brilliant at it's most mindless core even... 1 of the most bizarre and unsettling movies made. It was written with such precision it's crazy how little it is regarded.  David Lynch was, is and will always be one of the true greats in the business.

Absolutely. Lynch really crafted a masterpiece there.

Andrew

Andrew, I try my best. I suppose you should be grateful she didn't switch it on.

Baltis, never figured you for a Lynch fan. It is amazing to think someone like him made so many bizarre movies in the mainstream. Even a tv series. Mulholland Drive did win a museum full of awards and accolades. I think one of his most underrated and hated movies is TW: Fire Walk With Me. I saw that in a cinema in Birmingham UK (don't ask) and people were walking out and throwing things at the screen. The woman I was with didn't speak to me again. Suppose I was lucky she didn't try and wash me.

Andrew

Ya, I wouldn't compare Mulholland Drive to Synecdoche, New York. Both masterpieces in their own right for different reasons. I need to watch MH again as its been a few years and I've only watched it once.

From what I remember though I was doing a lot more head scratching after MH so I reckon Synec, NY won't throw you off too much. Best thing to do is watch it as soon as you get a chance, make up your own mind.

Quoted from bert Try to name 5 famous screenwriters.  No googling -- off the top of your head.

William Goldman
Joseph L. Mankiewicz
Andrew Niccol
David Mamet
Paul Shrader