Quoted from Sandra Elstree. It's true, loglines are extremely hard to write, but it's worthwhile for a writer to at least try to understand and write them as well as they can. My reasoning here, is that if you can place your whole script neatly within the confines of a quality logline, you probably know your script and its essence very well. That fact, and even through the process of generating many loglines that seem inadequate, you will gain insight into the work. On the other hand, even if you come up with something completely brilliant and acceptable, someone else, who's not so close to the work, might even be able to nail it even more and to a point where you say, "Why the hell didn't I think of that?" The reason there is that we often can't see the forest through the trees. My answer is then that the writer should try individually, but also offer it for consultation with people you know the quality of their work and insight and respect for their opinion. It's always grey/gray isn't it? Sandra

I think this is a good post.

Ultimately, I will often not read a script if the logline is dull or poorly written. Just being honest here, but if a writer who knows his story inside and out can't make his story interesting for three sentences, then I'm automatically thinking that there's no way he's going to be able to keep my interest over 90-120 minutes.

I would say that the logline is imperative to getting reads, so if it comes across as dull then it's in the best interests of the author that they know.

Wesley, you can help a lot with a logline if you haven't read the script...

There are aspects which make good loglines and bad loglines. It's your script in a sentence or two, and is extremely important, and CAN be critiqued individually, without reading the script.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree Fuck me!!!!

Quoted from Rob 'the Tart' Sniper Since you're twisting my arm here, Sandra, okay then. When? Where?

Oh dear. You could at least buy the girl dinner finst. I mean, if was it was me, I'd let her have fries with it as well.

Quoted from RV at bar Pint of lager please fella. Sandra, what do you want a half of then luv?

Stop flirting you two! That's my job.

RV

Quoted from rendevous Oh dear. You could at least buy the girl dinner finst. I mean, if was it was me, I'd let her have fries with it as well.

I was gonna offer her cream for the coffee but if you think fries work better...

On topic:

Imo a logline is basically a written teaser-trailer - a good one will get even a bad script reads and vice versa. I therefore feel that critiquing the logline is just as important as critiquing the script BUT, like with the script, keep it constructive or bite your tongue.

Quoted from sniper I was gonna offer her cream for the coffee but if you think fries work better...

Ooohh. For her coffee? Are you sure that's where it goes?

Quoted from sniper On topic: Imo a logline is basically a written teaser-trailer - a good one will get even a bad script reads and vice versa. I therefore feel that critiquing the logline is just as important as critiquing the script BUT, like with the script, keep it constructive or bite your tongue.

This is true. A good one can pull a reader in. Truth is it's poor form to just comment on a logline, as it is to just comment on a the first few pages. Give the writer 10 pages to impress. Any less is a bit slack.

RV  

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. Fuck!!! This post is NOT DIRECTED AT NEWBIES!!!  Fuck me!!!! Sandra

Quoted from sniper Since you're twisting my arm here, Sandra, okay then. When? Where?

Quoted from rendevous Oh dear. You could at least buy the girl dinner finst. I mean, if was it was me, I'd let her have fries with it as well. Stop flirting you two! That's my job. RV

Quoted from sniper I was gonna offer her cream for the coffee but if you think fries work better...

Quoted from rendevous Ooohh. For her coffee? Are you sure that's where it goes? RV

Alls I waz going to try and do is write me a nice lilly Christmas script that waz innocent and sweet, and all I can think about now is how bad I am, the depths that my mind can sink to, how bad I am, and how am I ever going to redeem myself.

And God help me because I think this would be a good logline,

A woman seeking spiritual ecstasy, reveals her darkest passions while believing an inverse numerical operation will be the means she requires.

***

*** Something to do with this:

10
01

100
010
001


1000
0100
0010
0001

...An inverse matrix operation kind of idea.

But somehow, mathematics aside, I think it all boils down to sexuality.

So perhaps the secret to a good logline is some kind of inversion method that could be mathematically calculated. (I'm serious).

And the secret to good sex, must therefore be the same.

And the cream? Well, that's easy...

That's one of a series of big bangs which is what this gentleman proposes. Well, he doesn't go into the sexual aspect, that was me, but I believe it's key in the whole universal theory aspect.





Sandra

Well, to bring it back around and deliver my thought on Bert's original post here, even though it's yesterday.

The logline is probably as essential as the script itself, and in some cases even more so. Some may recall that I did a few threads here and there critiquing query letters. Those were helpful, especially if the person did not know anything about the script.

The logline should draw a reader into reading the script, and if it doesn't do that, then the writer needs to work on it. A killer script will never be read if it doesn't have an equally good, or better, logline.

Let us remember the line that sells even mediocre scripts: "It had a premise that thrilled us!"

Let us also keep in mind that while Hostel as a movie wasn't too good, it sold on its premise.

So reviewing only a logline shouldn't be the end all of a script review, but those would be worthwhile...provided they're constructive of course. Same rules would apply as to regular script reviews. Be nice. Be constructive.

Quoted from Sandra 'Love and peace yeah' Elstree And the cream? Well, that's easy...

I dunno. Chocolates and champagne are usually my minimum. And only then if you're very nice to me....

Back on topic, despite myself....

Quoted from George W The logline should draw a reader into reading the script, and if it doesn't do that, then the writer needs to work on it. A killer script will never be read if it doesn't have an equally good, or better, logline.

And if you listen carefully you can hear a nail being hit squarely on the head.

Quoted from George Willson Well, to bring it back around and deliver my thought on Bert's original post here, even though it's yesterday.

Taw... taw... Topic! Yes oh yes oh yes.

Quoted from George Willson The logline is probably as essential as the script itself, and in some cases even more so. Some may recall that I did a few threads here and there critiquing query letters. Those were helpful, especially if the person did not know anything about the script. The logline should draw a reader into reading the script, and if it doesn't do that, then the writer needs to work on it. A killer script will never be read if it doesn't have an equally good, or better, logline. Let us remember the line that sells even mediocre scripts: "It had a premise that thrilled us!" So reviewing only a logline shouldn't be the end all of a script review, but those would be worthwhile...provided they're constructive of course. Same rules would apply as to regular script reviews. Be nice. Be constructive.

Day me say day-oh! Daylight come and me wan go home!  

Be nice. Be constructive!!!

Sandra

Quoted from Tommyp Wesley, you can help a lot with a logline if you haven't read the script... There are aspects which make good loglines and bad loglines. It's your script in a sentence or two, and is extremely important, and CAN be critiqued individually, without reading the script.

Like you said "It's your script" and "In a sentence or two" and yes you can tell a person it isn't good but you can't HELP by saying it is not good. You just leave them wondering what to do.

I've been trying to come up with a logline for my feature for like three years and still have not settled on one I like so I know it's not easy but I also haven't got any help by people who read it as to how to make it any better and I usually ask.

Quoted from mcornetto The very fact that this reader had no clue about O'Hare  gives the author of this script precious information - even though the reader has not read the script.

How does it HELP write a better one?

Like I said, we're supposed to be helping each other. Is it really a lot of extra work to open the script and help the person improve.

This thread wouldn't exist if the person was more helpful.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Like you said "It's your script" and "In a sentence or two" and yes you can tell a person it isn't good but you can't HELP by saying it is not good. You just leave them wondering what to do. I've been trying to come up with a logline for my feature for like three years and still have not settled on one I like so I know it's not easy but I also haven't got any help by people who read it as to how to make it any better and I usually ask.

Please, (Bevakasha) call on me. If I could work on this, it would make me very happy.

Sincerely I believe, that other people can help us rise above what we currently are perceiving.

If a few of us can "chip in" and give our expressions in your regard, we might really have something that is, at worst:

...non marketable due to its undefinability...

...or at its best:

Controversial

AS... USAKING PROCLAIMS:

Most important:

At the heart of any piece,

Must be:

The Emotive.

Sandra

I completely disagree with deleting a post simply because it's based on the logline alone.

I've made a number of posts based only on the logline.  I give examples of what's terrible about it, and I musually say something like, "no one's going to read this script, when the logline alone has 7 typos in it."

And I personally pretty much know up fornt when a script is going to be piss poor...if someone can't string 2 or 3 sentences together correctly in a logline, what do you think 120 pages are going to look like.

Now, if someone merely says, "you're logline sucks goat nips" or the like, I don't find that very helpful, because as we all know, loglines are tough...probably tougher than writing a full fledged feature script!

That's my 11 cents worth.

Quoted from Dreamscale I completely disagree with deleting a post simply because it's based on the logline alone. I've made a number of posts based only on the logline.  I give examples of what's terrible about it, and I musually say something like, "no one's going to read this script, when the logline alone has 7 typos in it." And I personally pretty much know up fornt when a script is going to be piss poor...if someone can't string 2 or 3 sentences together correctly in a logline, what do you think 120 pages are going to look like. Now, if someone merely says, "you're logline sucks goat nips" or the like, I don't find that very helpful, because as we all know, loglines are tough...probably tougher than writing a full fledged feature script! That's my 11 cents worth.

That's pretty much 100% how it should work although maybe give some ways to improve since you admit they are tough.

I think people should recheck a logline before sending it to Don and reread it after the script goes up. Mods can edit a script thread and fix or change the logline for you. No excuses.

Quoted from Dreamscale I completely disagree with deleting a post simply because it's based on the logline alone. I've made a number of posts based only on the logline.  I give examples of what's terrible about it, and I musually say something like, "no one's going to read this script, when the logline alone has 7 typos in it." And I personally pretty much know up fornt when a script is going to be piss poor...if someone can't string 2 or 3 sentences together correctly in a logline, what do you think 120 pages are going to look like. Now, if someone merely says, "you're logline sucks goat nips" or the like, I don't find that very helpful, because as we all know, loglines are tough...probably tougher than writing a full fledged feature script! That's my 11 cents worth.

It's true, Jeff has been known to do that.  His review for my only feature length attempt at a script:

Quoted from Dreamscale Hey Steven, I haven't read your script, but you need to fix the typos in your synopsis first. Horrible pet peeve o' mine when I read a synopsis and there are multiple mistakes.  You know things are going to be "bad" when the slug is so poorly written.

So I went back and looked at my logline and looked and looked and looked and could not see typos.  I had one, where there was no apostrophe before an S, but the troubles were not typos . . . I had actually mis-used grammar, and I hadn't realized it, because I did not know.  It's very hard to correct those things, if you do not know of it, so you do not know where to look.  That's why I suggested to Jeff that it's always best to expound upon this sort of statement so the person truly understands what they are looking for when they go to correct something.  Hence, his long point by point reviews you see now.  VERY helpful to the writer.  VERY helpful!!

Ah, yes, Steven, my friend, I do remember that.  I defintely did not do a very good job with actual examples, did I?  Piss poor, actually.

Very good point, but at least my point got through, although it should have been much clearer.  I was probably in a crappy mood and didn't want to the spend the extra 4 1/2 minutes it would have taken.  My bad!