Something to think about in the future:

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to look at an Unproduced script from a writer here and then compare it and contrast it to Produced scripts considered excellent?

EG Someone writes an Action piece. We read it, present initial thoughts and then look at successful films/scripts like Die Hard to see how the proffessional scripts work better or to highlight techniques that could be borrowed.

The idea of the script club seems to me to learn what makes these scripts sell, but there's no real common thread. (Besides the marketing of them to the people that matter).

For instance, Armored is attractive to Producers because it's contemporary and young men like to see people shoot guns, plus there's a market for heist style movies. It's great to read about "unknowns"selling scripts, (even if it's just a re-working of Walter Hills 'Trespass', except no where near as good), but it's only really relevant if you are trying to write a similar film.

sounds interesting to me.

I can run it on the Screenwriting Class board again. The discussion moderator is just there to try and keep the conversation on track and then keep it going if it fizzles out. I think we should discuss how we want to discuss it beforehand, however. The compartmental categorization doesn't seem to work very well since people tend to either hold back and then forget what they were going to say, or they spill it all ahead of time, and no one contributes since they don't want to go "out of order."

Thoughts on that?

I like Rick's idea...actually, I need to confess that I think he's one of the most insightful and always provides useful comments here. You need to be on Simply Radio as a guest sometime. I always read your posts.

Thanks George for taking this on!

Maybe we should just let people write up whatever they feel about the script and then just sort of carry a conversation about why we agree or not with this or that post. I have noticed to that it fizzles when we pick one are to discuss first and then another later. Maybe just open the flood gates and see if we can spark discussions that way?

I would like to nominate one of the best scripts I've read in a long while: Year 12 by Edward Ricourt.

Unless no one chimes in with a protest, I think Armored would be a good one.

Nothing against you Sniper, but we are not necessarily looking for the best script out there. Armored made a lot of  noise so IMHO it makes it worth looking at.

George is running this. Are we in some sort of agreement about Armored or are there some other suggestions?

Also, when are we going to do this? Hate for it to collide with the OWC.

I'm all for Armored. I have a suggestion about the way we should approach it, though. I think that the script should really just be part of a larger case study. I see in another thread Dec thought the finished film was really poor - that's not a problem, in fact it could be seen as a bonus. I really think we should try to understand why this script sparked interest, and why it was bought by Sony and put straight into production (despite apparently being nothing special).

The story of how this script was bought and turned into a fairly major film is one that is not actually that beyond us - this was a first-time sale by a guy who had no agent. who was literally plucked from the wilderness and handed a studio deal. Why? How? That's what I think we should try to understand.

Obviously, to start with we should read the script. We should read what those producers and agents (including the ones that turned it down) read. We should discuss it, really get our teeth into it. But then I think we should go beyond that. We should look at interviews, at blogs, at any info we can find on the sale of this script. We shouldn't be afraid to speculate, to let those with a bit of industry knowledge (a category I firmly DON'T fit into) guess from what they know. By the end, I think it would be great to not only have dissected the script, but also be able to understand how and why it sold. If we do it that way, then we'll come out with more than just an understanding of how to write a sellable heist script. We'll have a case study of what it takes to write a spec script and be able to land a major deal without any real professional writing history and with no agent. A possible blueprint for success, perhaps. Something to try and emulate.

Of course, that's just a suggestion.

We did something like that with The Strangers. No outside blog work or anything, but we reviewed the script and then reviewed the movie making some comparisons and contrasts between the two. It worked fairly well. We could all take a week to read the script (if anyone has a link on hand, please provide it), discuss it for a week and then watch the movie and discuss it. A week is a general time frame here, and I'd really like to keep the script and movie as divided as possible so one doesn't cloud the other, but that would give us  four week commitment here. If that's cool, then that's cool.

Quoted from George Willson We could all take a week to read the script (if anyone has a link on hand, please provide it), discuss it for a week and then watch the movie and discuss it.

I wasn't really suggesting that we necessarily compare the script to the movie...what interests me is how the writer got this thing sold. That's what I want to learn about. What it was about the script that made it such an attractive commodity, or how he managed to hype it (without an agent) so that it BECAME an attractive commodity.

Quoted from JonnyBoy I wasn't really suggesting that we necessarily compare the script to the movie...what interests me is how the writer got this thing sold. That's what I want to learn about. What it was about the script that made it such an attractive commodity, or how he managed to hype it (without an agent) so that it BECAME an attractive commodity.

A key part of the equation is not Armored itself, but the script he wrote before hand that did reasonably well in the Nicholls and attracted the attention of the Producers who shopped around Armored.

The Journey of a thousand miles and all that.

I don't want to pre-emp the script club discussion so I won't go too much into Armored, but it's essentially the text book concept that the screenwriting books all emphasize:

High concept (every day guys stealing $42M), contemporary (easy and cheap to make), strong recognisable genre (heist, cops and robbers), strong hook (the $42M).

Mr Z's link is a great post. Here is the most pertinent aspect of it:

Quoted Text JRM:   What gets your attention and makes a script stand out from the crowd? Jay Simpson:   The concept. Most writers obsess over execution, Execution is important to a point, in that it needs to exploit the concept and clearly convey it in an interesting and entertaining way. But if you don't start with a concept�a �hook��that grabs someone's attention at first blush, you're stacking the odds against your own success. JRM:   What makes you think a script will be a chore to read, and is there anything you find particularly lacking in today's scripts? Jay Simpson:   You can tell in the first page if the script will be a chore to read. A lot of scripts I read simply don't start where the story begins. I think those writers either don't know what their story is really about, so they aren't sure where to start it�or they realize their story is not really interesting on its own, so they try to distract from the mundane story with creative visuals and structure. It never works. JRM:   What are some of the mistakes you see writers make�with their scripts or in their approach to people or the industry? Jay Simpson:   A lot of writers invest thousands of hours studying and improving their craft, but virtually no time learning about the business or developing a network with people in the business.

Broken down:

1. Pick an exciting, high concept premise with natural conflict
2. Write the story clearly and well
3. Network like hell.

The link is worth repeating:

http://johnrobertmarlow.com/lonelykeyboard/LK__intvw--jsimpson.html

It's a brilliant breakdown of so many things we discuss week in, week out on here.

Decadence, you left out one important point that people around here always, always, always not only skim over, but even outright state that it isn't important to them:

Quoted Text A lot of writers invest thousands of hours studying and improving their craft, but virtually no time learning about the business or developing a network with people in the business.

That would mean in order to write an effective movie, you should know something about making a movie. You don't have to go out with your camera and friends, but watching "Making of" documentaries has some extra advantages for screenwriters. Knowing how to make your own script would be terribly useful in writing it. This isn't the technical specifications, but just knowing in the back of your head that "hm, in this scene, they'd probably built a set with a blue screen out the window" and "this exterior would probably be either a CG or painted background with the flying ship and little village being either models or CG constructs." When people ask for scripts, they often specify a budget and expect you to know whether your script would fit in that budget. How the heck would you know unless you have a clue on how to make it?

Quoted from George Willson Decadence, you left out one important point that people around here always, always, always not only skim over, but even outright state that it isn't important to them: That would mean in order to write an effective movie, you should know something about making a movie. You don't have to go out with your camera and friends, but watching "Making of" documentaries has some extra advantages for screenwriters. Knowing how to make your own script would be terribly useful in writing it. This isn't the technical specifications, but just knowing in the back of your head that "hm, in this scene, they'd probably built a set with a blue screen out the window" and "this exterior would probably be either a CG or painted background with the flying ship and little village being either models or CG constructs." When people ask for scripts, they often specify a budget and expect you to know whether your script would fit in that budget. How the heck would you know unless you have a clue on how to make it?

That's an interesting point.

Personally I'm not sure it's completely necessary to have much of an understanding of such specifics like Blue/Green screen and such. I dare say there a lot of Directors who aren't experts on such things.

But it's certainly important to have some understanding of the budget and no knowledge is going to hurt you.

The key thing about the business side is to work out who your market is. There are only a tiny number of people who actually work in the Industry. If you write say, Horror scripts, there are only a few major companies that Produce them (Dimension, Lionsgate etc). Find out who is responsible for procuring scripts and target them.

You also need to know what they like. They make certain films and know how to market them. They like to use previously successful methods. You just make it easy for them to say yes, rather than no.

A creative marketing guru once gave me a good tip. He called it the "Kingmaker list".

You write the names of ten people down who can make your career in one go. Numbered in order of importance. You then creatively try and attract their attention, starting with number one.

Let's give a specific example just for reference.

1. Harvey Weinstein.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005544/

He can open the doors to the Kindgom literally overnight. He and his company can make off the wall films or standard genre flicks.

Find someway of getting a script in his hands and he likes it....you're on the way.

If not, you go to number two on the list....and so on.

The whole point is that in any creative industry there will be one guy who can make you instantly.

It doesn't matter if you are a painter (Saatchi and Saatchi) or you design trainers (Adidas), there are people there who can make you overnight based on the fact they like your work.


Easier said than done maybe, but where there's a will....

So...did we decide on Armored and that George will run it?

If so, when? George can you find out what time would be good so it doesn't collide with the OWC?

I can find out about the OWC easily enough, but my main concern is where the Armored script is coming from. I didn't find it in a SimplyScripts search, so is it elsewhere on the web, or does someone have a copy? Can't very well do it if there isn't a copy floating around out there somewhere.

I've got it George...