Just curious if anyone has read Frozen by Adam Green? If so, I'd like to hear what you thought of it.

I often take turns by reading scripts by friends and pro scripts. This one appealed to me by name (short and to the point), logline "As a trio of snowboarders ride up the mountain in preparation for their final run of the day, the night lights suddenly go dark, and the lift chairs grind to a sudden halt. Realizing that the resort will be closed until the following weekend, the three friends decide to take their fate into their own hands, and find their way down to terra firma. Once they do, they realize that hypothermia isn't the only thing they have to fear... and an entirely unexpected horror awaits them." and the poster.

I almost gave up after the first 10 pages nothing had happened. There wasn't even a hint that told me this was going to be a horror at all. And it was mostly just dialogue.

The reason I want to hear anyone else's opinion is because those first 10 pages read to me like they could have been written by anyone here at SS. The writing was straight forward. No smart-ass asides or anything else to give this writer a special "voice" and dialogue heavy slow beginning...

I kept on reading however and that's where the difference between scripts here at SS and this one really started to show. Most of this script takes place in one location. A ski lift. Very hard to do, but the writer did a real good job on that. The tension continued to build throughout and I didn't want to put this script down. Situation continued to go from worse to worse and all three characters were good and were changed in the end. All this on a ski-lift!

I think, maybe the reason I wanted to mention this script is because I feel that there are so many people here that can definitely write (style wise) as this guy, but seldom do I read scripts by us here that are page turners. What is it that our scripts lack? It's not the writing. Is it the failure to really really test our characters? We don't really put them through the ringer. I'm not talking just about horror here. I'm talking about the dramas the comedies, whatever. Maybe the stakes just aren't high enough? I don't know, but I'd like to know if anyone else has any thoughts on it.

PS. this script was very much like Open Water...

There really isn't a whole lot of difference between anyone else in the world and the writers on this site.  Not really.  They're people.  Some more talented than others.  

I have a slogan on my Corkboard that says "You're Not a Writer If You're Not Writing"... This is what often separates the pro's from the users here.  Writers who come here, by and large, are hobbyist.  They don't take it seriously.  I know I don't.  I got too many other things I want to succeed at doing well before I succeed in screenwriting.

Insert - (My Band and being a father)

But it still doesn't change the fact I write for rainy days to come.  Everyone starts somewhere.  This is just where some writers can lay claim to starting when the time comes.   And I firmly believe Phil has written work that eclipses most of what comes out of Hollywood.  That doesn't mean he's an amateur.  Just means he has a different origin.

And I thought Frozen was utter garbage.  Tedious,  boring, and lacked proper pace.

I haven't seen the movie. I was talking about the script. I often read a good script only to see the movie and be really disappointed. Mirrors comes to mind so I don't doubt Frozen would be different. And btw, I didn't mean the script was brilliant or anything. Just thought it was interesting how it started out like something that can be found here, but then as the story goes along it turns out pretty good and I can see why it got sold.

I think what I meant was that when I read a script that has sold or been produced. I usually do think that they are better than what I read here. I just can't put my finger on what it is exactly that makes them better. Makes them page turners. If that makes sense.

It's not always the writing that sells a script - it's that scripts marketability - or it's USP - it's unique selling point. For a production company to invest in a script it has to see serious potential in terms of return. The writer must have done a fantastic job at pitching the idea, that earned a read and the film got made.

I think it's important to note that Adam Green also directed the film which means he had an active part in getting the film produced. That's about the only significant difference I can see here.

What separates SS writers from the pros?

Er, in a word, Success.

I mean Speilbergian, Kubrickishness Fincherdom. We don't have houses in beverley hills and twelve cars that we never drive.

We have lives. And we seek. Some of us will get some success, some day. We can hope...

Great clip of BBC's newsnight with The Man Paxman giving it some about why writers don't get the same credit as directors with the writer of Last King of Scotland and Stephen Frears which says everything about why I seek to be a writer rather than director, at the mo.

I'll find it then do an edit here soon. In the fine words HL, of one sadly missed, I'm a man of my word...

EDIT:

And the man keepeth his word, took some bloody finding too,,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9026552.stm

I found it fascinating. Plus, I like your new gloves, me...

H ox

Frozen is next up in my Netflix que.

Keep in mind that Adam Green wrote and directed this, so IMO, that doesn't really qualify as him "selling" his script.  For some reason, Hatchet became a cult favorite, even though it's absolutely terrible.  I've heard Hatchet 2 is even worse.

IMO, the vast majority of Pro scripts are piss poor, and I'm including big grossing features as well.

It's just a really tough market to break into and getting tougher each year, it seems.  The writer/directors have a leg up, being able to shoot their own scripts on minuscule budgets, that they borrow/finance/whatever somehow.  If what they produce is even half way decent, they have something to show going forward and that's where many get their big break.

Mirrors was absolutely abysmal!  Just pathetic!

I have read hundreds of "pro" scripts over the last year, including un-produced blacklist scripts (which for the purposes of this I would include as pro) and I can honestly say that there is only 3 screenplays I have ever read by SS writers that would be good enough to considered as good as the worst of those.

But the answer is simple, It is not writing style, or a voice, there are some writers here who have worked hard and developed a nice style. It is poor characters that let's down 99.9% of all the scripts posted here. With all the focus of learning the craft of screenwriting many have forgotten about the craft of storytelling, if a reader does not give a shit about a character then the story is not going anywhere and I honestly don't think there any many scripts here at all where the characters have been properly developed and given a voice of their own.

This is not the only difference but I think it is the biggest difference, there are many other tricks to creating a good story that the pros use but without characters then the rest is irrelevant.

I think anyone who believes that there or not many difference between the scripts of a pro and most scripts here are kidding themselves and never likely to improve. There is a huge difference and it is going to take lots of work to get there. Lots of learning too, and I don't mean reading books about screenplay format but learning about creating a story that holds a readers attention, engages, surprises and moves people. Characters are a good place to start,

Murph, just for the fun of it, what characters/scripts are you talking about being so good, or so much better than characters/scripts in SS?  I mean, name some over the last 3 years.

I'm just curious.

For instance, Pia mentioned Mirrors being a great script that turned into a shit movie.  What was so special about those characters?  Absolutely nothing.  They were all piss poor, cliched, zero dimensional, and unrealistic to boot.


What am I missing here?

To the point about Frozen, Green was writing that script while he was producing Grace, knowing it would be his next film.  Ariescope was already working with him on Grace, which, of course, is who produced Frozen, along with A Bigger Boat (their first production), so I think that the script had a fast track because of so many other factors surrounding it.  That was, by no means, a spec script.  

Quoted from Dreamscale Murph, just for the fun of it, what characters/scripts are you talking about being so good, or so much better than characters/scripts in SS?  I mean, name some over the last 3 years. I'm just curious. For instance, Pia mentioned Mirrors being a great script that turned into a shit movie.  What was so special about those characters?  Absolutely nothing.  They were all piss poor, cliched, zero dimensional, and unrealistic to boot. What am I missing here?

Every script I have read is the easy answer.

If by page 10 you give me characters who I want to achieve their goals then I will buy into the story, whatever that story is. Whether it is a serial killer who wants to be a clown or a taxi driver who wants to win a flower arranging competition.

Interesting, multi-dimensional characters with clear goals and distinct personalities. Pro scripts  have these in spades. I can't explain how to create them fully, Like everyone here am still learning, but they are easy to spot. They are missing from most scripts here, and it is telling.

What it is not is lots of backstory, flashbacks and exposition. It is far more subtle than that, a brief one page conversation can tell us far more about a character that 5 pages of flashback can if done well. It is about using dialogue expertly, not just dialogue to move the story forward and reveal plot details but to also reveal something about the character. Something that seeps into the conscious of a reader, often unknowingly, but something that sticks enough for the reader to care.

Murph, I'm sure you can give an example of 3 scripts that have been made into movies that show what you are referring to over the last 3 years.  And I'm hoping you don't use "classics" as examples.

I guess I am rather critical of most things, in that I see the flaws, I see what doesn't make sense, and it always amazes me how things "slip" by.

I used to see close to 10 movies every week (1 or 2 in the theater, and 5 plus either on DVD or a movie channel).  That number is way down now as I rarely see movies in the theater.  But, bottom line is that I probably see a Hell of alot more movies than most.  And, most of the movies I see suck or aren't very impressive.  I'd say that less than 10% of the movies I see are above decent, and that's not saying too much, obviously.

Is it only me?  Maybe...  

It is poor characters that let's down 99.9% of all the scripts posted here. With all the focus of learning the craft of screenwriting many have forgotten about the craft of storytelling, if a reader does not give a s*** about a character then the story is not going anywhere and I honestly don't think there any many scripts here at all where the characters have been properly developed and given a voice of their own.

Excellent point. One I used to be guilty of. I hope I'm not any more. Still, you never know.

Hxo

Quoted from Dreamscale Murph, I'm sure you can give an example of 3 scripts that have been made into movies that show what you are referring to over the last 3 years.  And I'm hoping you don't use "classics" as examples.

This week I have read some more blacklist scripts that included another read of The Beaver, which Jodie Foster has directed and which seems to have disappeared due to Mel Gibson's "troubles"), Brad Cutter ruined my life...again, which has been picked up and Everything must go, another spec that is getting serious interest, in fact I think Will Farrel is going to star.

All three are specs, all three got lots of buzz and all three are great examples of having lead characters who readers connect to and want to succeed. The stories themselves are of course imaginative and well written, but that is something that is SS writers are certainly capable of.

Yesterday I read another blacklist script called "Cedar Rapids" this has been optioned and is listed on IMDB as upcoming, no idea whether it will be made or not*. But I mention this one because the plot is very simple, very cliched and closely follows a tried and tested formula. To me this is the kind of story that everyone here could write, in fact I have read some rom-coms here that have better story.

To me the difference is in the characters, especially that of the lead. There is a reason why this script featured on the blacklist, people remembered it and liked it, and I can only think it is down to character.

I have linked to it here.... https://files.me.com/gary.murphy/3n239k

Honestly, read the first 11 pages and tell me that you cannot automatically tell you are not reading an amateur script.

And I would put this very low down on the list of scripts I have read this year, I have only highlighted this because i think it is the type of script that gets written here often. But read into the dialogue on the first couple of pages, read between the lines, they may be talking about a television commercial but really they are not at all, they are revealing personality and character immediately. The words spoken  are not as important as what they reveal, they are just a method of getting that across. By the time we get to page 11 and the plot set-up I was invested enough in this character to want to carry on reading, and judging by the black-list I was not the only one.

** EDIT: Actually, I am wrong, must have looked at the wrong one, another look at IMDB tell me that Cedar Rapids has been filmed and stars Sigourney Weaver and John C Reilly. And I don't rank this that highly at all.

Just off of the movie scripts page here, I would say Sunshine Cleaners, Whip It and The Book of Eli all have solid characters that you want to follow and see what happens.