I'm glad that you've asked this question Pia, I think it's an important one.

In terms of page turning, it's really about three things....high stakes (life or death etc) constantly posing dramatic questions (will this work? Is he going to get out of this?), and tension...all the time the stakes are building, the time is running out.

That's where the better pro scripts are on a level above I think. Every scene moves the story along, every line of dialogue is relevant and works like action to move the story along. Dialogue tends to be incredibly excessive and non-important in amateur scripts, with little reveal of character, no subtext and just there for the sake of it, not to move the story on.

In terms of tension there are really only a few ways to do it, a simple google will provide them, just stick them in your scenes.

Most non-pro scripts are very low on tension IMO. A lot of pro-films are as well to be fair. Often you'll have a scene that's quite passive and expositional where somebody is doing something, but there's no threat, no time limit, nobody coming to stop them, or even just watching them. That's simply a matter of being really aware of the craft of filmmaking at all times.

On top of that, I'll be honest and say that many of the scripts on here don't tend to have the absolute strongest premises to begin with. Scripts written for professional production rely on huge stakes, unique selling points. I think scripts on here can stuck between two stools at times..they are neither massive, blockbuster type epic stories nor intense, focussed, character driven pieces or whatever...so they end up kind of watered down versions of Hollywood genre films. Not banging enough for the big screen, but not unique enough, or deep enough to be breakout hits lower down.

To be fair though, I get the impression that a lot of writers hold back a bit...they tend not to write their strongest ideas until they feel they are ready, so you're never seeing their real soul put into it.

I think it's really a question of writers working really hard to find a strong, marketable premise with lots of natural conflict, creating unique characters and really pushing it hard, like you say.

Is Frozen an adaptation btw? I've read a similar story in short form...two guys get stuck on ski-lifts (I think one was trying to kill the other), one jumps at night hoping it's not too far and breaks his legs, the other stays on and freezes to death.
It was a cool story, must have read it in the 80's or early 90's...

Rick.

Murph, I'll read 10 pages and give you my thoughts, but you didn't use any scripts that have been made int movies that we can discuss, and that is a problem, IMO.

Seamus, you used Book of Eli as an example and IMO, that's a really piss poor example, because the movie flat out sucked balls.  Heinously flat, cliched, dull, been there, seen it.  I was shocked how bad it was, actually, as I was looking forward to it, based on the trailers.

Let's quickly look at the characters in Book of Eli.  We've got Eli himself.  The twist about his is good, but doesn't save the picture at all. He himself is a total cliche.  There's nothing he says or does that is remotely unique, or even interesting.  Then we've got the hooker chick...another completely cliched character who doesn't say or do anything remotely fresh or interesting.  And finally, we've got Gary Oldman's bad guy dude, who is a complete cliched, cartoonish bossman bad guy.

What am I missing here with Book of Eli?

I can guarantee you that Frozen was sold to investors on the premise alone (and how cheap it would be to make) and possibly the filmmaker's pedigree.  I doubt the people who put money into it even asked to read the script.

(Hi everyone, by the way.    )

Quoted from Dreamscale Murph, I'll read 10 pages and give you my thoughts, but you didn't use any scripts that have been made int movies that we can discuss, and that is a problem, IMO.

Actually, two of the three examples I gave have already completed filming and one looks highly likely to get green-lit. I only used them as they are specs and I have read them recently.

Don't get me wrong, this is not supposed to be a dig at any writers here, there are some good writers here who are improving greatly and will maybe one day write a great script. But there is no point anyine deceiving themselves with the notion that the only difference boils down to luck, being in the right place, knowing the right people etc.. That is never gonna get anyone anywhere. The difference lies in the skill level of the writer.  

I have no idea about the movie.  I didn't see it.  

Have we seen variations of this character before?  Of course.   There have been many solitary wanderers in the post apocalyptic wilderness.  But it is an interesting character, and he has a definite mission that I want to see him accomplish.

And it may not be a great screenplay.  But it is better than anything that anyone here has written.  

(ANd that isn't meant as a dig at onyone on here either.)

Quoted from Murphy Don't get me wrong, this is not supposed to be a dig at any writers here, there are some good writers here who are improving greatly and will maybe one day write a great script. But there is no point anyine deceiving themselves with the notion that the only difference boils down to luck, being in the right place, knowing the right people etc.. That is never gonna get anyone anywhere. The difference lies in the skill level of the writer.

How is it then that there is such a a massive quantity of films produced with flat characters and predictable plots? I don't understand how the pros can be more skilled when the majority of their scripts are awful.

I read the first 11 pages of the script you linked BTW. I did see a difference in both the action lines and the dialogue but not in quality. I think the writer just found more clever ways of phrasing certain things that could've otherwise been written as "How are you - I'm fine" and that sort of stuff. In regards to the action, there was a lot more product placement, italics and sound effects. None of it was bad but I wasn't hooked and have no interest in reading further. Maybe I'll reread it later on but as of now, I don't get it.

OK, Murph, I read the first 6 pages of the linked script, Cedar Rapids.  I couldn't go any further.

IMO, it's terrible...terribly boring, dull characters, no plot setup, nothing that would remotely interest me into reading anymore.

A 34 year old loser guy having sex with a 54 year old lady?  Not what I want to see when I watch a movie.

Way too many characters.  Writing itself isn't even good, IMO.  Lots and lots of mistakes, unfilmables, meaningless information, using first and last names in dialogue boxes, WAY TOO MANY wrylies, long winded dialogue...ARGH...terrible.  I can't imagine anyone in here even reading more than 10 pages of this, if it were posted here, let alone what the comments would look like.

I guess I just don't see things like others do.  It must be me. I must be either crazy or dangerously close to being crazy.

To each is own is fine. I know that, and I understand that.  But to say this is a great example of what a Pro caliber script looks like and that scripts on SS don't match up to it, is downright crazy to me.

S19382 makes a good point. I added that URL of Pax and Frears about screenwriters too, for those that care.

Sunshine Cleaning is one of many films that highlights a relatively new situation in society. ANd it does it bloody well, pardon the deliberate pun.

Sam Jackson did a similar film with Ed Harris which IMH, didn't work quite as well.

The whole point of this thread is what separates us from them. Apart from success, cos I already said that,

Fact is I really don't give a shit if I make it.

Anonimity suits me fine. As long as I git enough money to get drunk and smoke when I want so what if the world don't know who I am. Like I give a fuck.

I'm more talented and intelligent than they will ever be. I can prove it too. I can take their Porsche and make it do things they can never dream of. I'd never own one, cos only wankers drive 'em.

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz...

Ahem. Nuff for now. Gonna watch Matchpoint and AN again. Wish me luck. You kids play nice now.

Seamus, you may have just hit the nail on the head in saying you haven't seen the movie.  I didn't read the script, but I can guarantee you that the movie blows and was a waste of $70 million (even though it made money back)...credit that to Denzell and Gary Oldman.

For some reason, people think scripts are great, but in reality, when they're filmed, it becomes obvious that they aren't, and weren't.  And there in lies the problem.

And, BTW, in no way is that script better than every script in here.  That's ludicrous to think and say, IMO.  I'd go out on a limb and guess that hundreds of the scripts in here would make much more entertaining movies than Book of Eli.

James, I am in agreement with you 100%!  That's why I'm still waiting for someone to throw out some recent movies that have these fantastic, original characters that only a Pro writer can conceive and...write.

It's BS is what it is.  Complete BS.

Deemscale, you have become something slightly more boring than you were. I can almost copy and paste what you say from your previous ones. Lighten up, Jeff!

And stop following me.

You're only paranoid if people aren't following you.

Wassup dude?

Plus your arguments are complete Bs, as you put it. Arse I say.

The Book Of Eli is a fine script that didn't quite work on film as well as it should have. That ain't Denzel's fault. He's the talent and the money and the actor, blame the director or the producers. Their problem. Night night.

H xo

[quote=Dreamscale]

And, BTW, in no way is that script better than every script in here.  That's ludicrous to think and say, IMO.  I'd go out on a limb and guess that hundreds of the scripts in here would make much more entertaining movies than Book of Eli.
quote]

You're right.  YOu're going crazy.  Or at least delusional!  

Dreamscale, I am not going to argue over something as personal as taste, your opinion is valid and I am not going to assume it is wrong. But Cedar Rapids is a spec script that has been filmed and was good enough to attract top talent to star in it. So there has to be something worthwhile here.

Breakdown of the first 12 pages of Cedar Rapids:

We learn that Tim is a nice guy but a dork.
He is used to being let down and overlooked at work.
He lives alone in his Mothers house.
His Mother is dead.
He is engaged to his old school teacher and Mothers best friend.
He has never left the town he grew up in.
He is scared of leaving the town he grew up in.
His hero and mentor has died.
Not only his hero but his  surrogate father in many ways.

**EDIT**

I am guilty of being too on the nose here, and too literal really. What I should have said is something much simpler... Via the above discoveries we learn that Tim has never really grown up and become independent, he has highly likely never had an an emotional attachment to any girl outside his mother and teacher and he lacks the self confidence to speak his own mind or even travel outside the only environment he knows. He is a newborn child reluctant to leave the womb.

We learn all of this from just a couple of scenes in the first 10 pages.

**/EDIT**

Now when we come to page 11/12 we are told what the rest of the story is going to be about (by the way perfect timing in terms of structure). Tim is going to have to leave the town and travel outside his state for the first time in order to save the company he has worked at all his life.

Taking everything we have learned about Tim into consideration this is huge, this is a real story and we already want Tim to succeed. But if we never knew all these things that we knew about Tim then it would not be huge at all, it would not be a great story and we would not really care that a much at all when we learn what is to come.

But here is where the writers skill comes into play, we were never really told any of this information! We learned it through dialogue and action that was never obviously trying to tell us this. And this is how this character seeps into our consciousness without us trying to hard to think about it.

This is exactly what happens in real life,  when we meet people we are unconsciously deciding whether we like them or not. Our decision is based upon their words and actions, but nobody comes up to you, shakes your hand and says "Hi I am Tim, I miss my mom and am scared to leave this town". We learn these things about people by discussing football, by how they order a meal, there response to a question about airports etc.. etc..

In the vast majority of the scripts on sites like SS we would still no doubt learn all of this information by page 11 but we would be told it, it would be on the nose, it certainly would not seep into our brains by itself. As a consequence characters do not feel real and thus we do not have that emotional attachment that we really need to believe in the journey.

Delusional. I did that up in Donegal recently, after a skinful. Couldn't find the fucking rented house after a skinful, thought I was gonna die.

Happily I survived. Got a script outta it. However, I try and keep it just to the characters. Nice to see you about round the boards again Seay, keep it cooking as ya do. Heway ya bollix ya.

HR xo

I think Murphy might be on to something here. Especially about the comment about subtleness.

All I know is that I read a lot of both produced and unproduced scripts and I bet if I was given two scripts two read, one from each group, I would be able to tell which one was which. My problem is that I have not been able to pinpoint why and what makes them different.

I agree with you too Rick. All of it. And for those who say Hollywood keep churning out crap, I want to ask you if you have read the script of that film. Like I said earlier, many times the final movie isn't really much like the script at all. IMO, the script that I loved that the film came the closest to the script might actually be Silence of The Lambs. In that particular case the book, the screenplay and the film are almost identical. There are a lot of things that play a huge part in a film and just because a script is great does not guarantee a great movie.

You know what they say to aspiring filmmakers though, you have to start with a GREAT script. Maybe everyone knows that the final film will never be as good as the script so if you start with a less than great script, you're not going to make great film.

In regards to Frozen, I didn't say it was brilliant or great even. I just said that the first 10 pages were so so, but then things picked up and I cared about the characters and I wanted to know what happened next. I read it in 2 hours...no breaks because I was interested. Something in that script made me want to turn the pages. In other words, I wanted to know what it is with pro scripts that makes that difference. No offense to anyone here at all, but ask yourself how many features you read here that are page turners?...

Bullet points are nice to address within other people's scripts but seldom do they reflect as fluidly within your own.  I currently have a script with 33 characters, on its 3rd draft, and I sent 12 pages, ironically, to a writer here who I admire a great deal... I think I might have even e-mailed him, after the fact, bullet points of what happens in rebuttal to what he had said.  After reading the script again and taking his crit into consideration I realized just how off the pace was.  

I've since changed the name of the location
I've since rearranged the scenes of the 1st 15 pages
I've since even took out Two whole characters

What all this means is, just because YOU see something doesn't mean others will.  We can bullet point unpolished material and make it match up like cherries on a slot machine, but if the content isn't good... It's going to show.  I haven't read Cedar Rapids, by the way.  This is just an observation of the top 3 things the 1st 10 to 12 pages of anybodies script should embody.

Setting
Character
Conflict


Backstory and goals do not have to play into these pages.  Depth will be built upon the foundation of the 1st 2 acts.