Quoted from Dreamscale Yet, every time I (or someone else) brings up a Pro script (and/or movie) that obviously is terrible in every way, I'm told that I don't understand or get it. How can this be?

Well, I guess what you're failing to see is that it's not terrible in every way. The way it's not terrible is that it knows structure, it knows arcs and theme (even if they are sucky). It knows how long to stay in a scene and it knows not let characters go off on tangents. etc. It knows set-ups and pay-offs. It knows reversals. Again the story might suck, the characters bland, but it how to fundamentally arrange and present a story.

And that's a huge difference, that's there even in crappy movies written by pro-writers.

Quoted Text DM, you say it's shit on a different level, and you're right for the most part.  But what about the non Pro scripts or writers that don't suck and aren't shit?  Are they not better than the Pro scripts and writers that do suck and are shit? I just completely fail to see what the infatuation is with Pro writers and this really weird ideology that their shit doesn't stink, and they can do no wrong.

The non pro writers whose scripts aren't bad have a good chance of becoming pro writers. Mind you, I'm not talking about two different races, or casts, and that if you're an amateur you will one forever. But 99% of amateur scripts on this site and others don't have what it takes to get attention. Because it lacks the aforementioned qualities I listed above.

Did you check out the script I linked to? The F Word? I'd be curious if you can tell a difference between that and SS scripts...

Murph, we agree on something finally!  You are correct…there are always exceptions to every rule.  They should not be ignored though, because they work in both ways…as in both sides of the discussion.

Definition of a Pro writer is one that has sold his/her scripts for money…or really, one who makes a living by writing scripts.  You are far from the one to judge what scripts or writers are Pro level.

I definitely don’t read as many Pro scripts as you do…that’s for sure.  But I bet ya I watch a hell of a lot more movies than you do.  This “difference” you keep referring to must not actually be what you continue to say the difference is, though.  The difference must be in the actual choice of presentation in writing.   If it was actually great characters and story, then every movie would include these, and the vast majority does not.

And this is the BIG problem, IMO. People get all worked up by what they perceive to be Pro writing.  They try their damdest to emulate it…to copy it…to make their writing look just like the Pro’s writing.  Same deal with the scripts that are being purchased.  They’re not being purchased because of how interesting, entertaining, and visual they will be onscreen. They’re being purchased because they “look” a certain way…a certain cool, hip, popular way.

Very true about the vast majority of scripts being purchased but not produced or turned into movies.  Why?  Because they weren’t solid scripts to start off with, and over time, the powers that be finally understood the error of their ways in paying good money for something that will never see the light of day.

It is completely about having a great idea and getting lucky.  Even Pro writers get lucky every day.  Pro athletes get lucky.  Pro entertainers get lucky.   Anyone and everyone can get lucky…or unlucky.

I for one, am not belittling Pro screenwriters one bit.  I’m merely pointing out all that glitters is not gold.  No one is 100% successful all the time.  Perfection is almost impossible to obtain.

Professional athletes are paid huge amounts of money to succeed.  If they can’t or don’t, they will no longer be paid those huge amounts of money, and won’t be Pros any longer.  It’s a much different world than screenwriting.

And finally, if you don’t think luck plays into someone either getting a big promotion or not getting it, you’re dumber than I thought you were.  It often comes down to looks and other factors that we don’t need to go into here.

The world is not a fair place.  Didn’t your parents teach you that long ago?

Quoted from Dreamscale I definitely don’t read as many Pro scripts as you do…that’s for sure.  But I bet ya I watch a hell of a lot more movies than you do

I have to go, maybe I will respond to some of your other points later, much I disagree with, as always.

But this makes me laugh, how the he'll can you know how many movies I watch? What a ridiculous assumption to make.

I average around 6-10 movies a week, depending on what I have planned, if I am out all weekend or not.

And besides, I have seen your favourite movies. Quality trumps quantity all the time.

And what a ridiculous assumption you made in asking how many Pro-level scripts I read.  At least I have no problem in saying I doubt I read nearly as many as you do.

And there you go again...Murphy the all knowing, always correct, shit don't stink A-Hole.  Because my favorite movies aren't your favorite movies, means that what you like is better for some reason?

We're talking about Pro writers. Pro writers write all different kinds of Pro scripts.  At no time have we been talking about the cream of the crop in terms of movies or scripts, have we?

We're talking about what separates Pro writers from SS writers...simple as that.  many Pro writers make a living writing what most would call Grade Z scripts, which get turned into Grade Z movies.  Yet, for some unknown reason, you don't think that writer could be an SS writer.

I don't get it.

Quoted from Dreamscale I don't get it.

I know.

Well then...there you go, Murph.  Well said, mate.

I was actually going to apologize to you, as I didn't realize you watched that many movies.  Damn...that is a good amount, and I can't say I watch a Hell of alot more than you...only a few more here and there.

We just don't see eye to eye, and that's cool.  I understand.

Quoted from Dreamscale Well then...there you go, Murph.  Well said, mate. I was actually going to apologize to you, as I didn't realize you watched that many movies.  Damn...that is a good amount, and I can't say I watch a Hell of alot more than you...only a few more here and there. We just don't see eye to eye, and that's cool.  I understand.

Lol, we never did and we probably never will.

Most of the time I am just arguing with you for the sake of it, it's fun, and an outlet! You are alright really. I have enough respect for you.

Remember, good writers can write bad films, and doesn't mean the script is bad either. This where it comes down to being a critical review of a script. Just like our choice of films it is totally subjective. You have the right to think a film is great even if I think it is shit, nobody is wrong and nobody is right, despite the fact that I think you're wrong,

But when talking about a well written script I am trying to get away from this critical aspect of it, there are certain things that a well written script has that are not subjective, that can be pinpointed. It is these elements that can be seen in pro scripts that are just not there in amateur scripts, regardless of whether it is an Oscar contender or a Michael Bay film.