Quoted from dogglebe . I'm not sure how sarcasm you're using here, but I'll assume none. While I agree that, if you don't have it you never will, I disagree there not being any skills to learn and develop.  I've gone back to scripts I've written and groan at what I see./  I've actually rewritten and resubmitted a few.  I have two scripts I wrote twenty or thirty years ago that I want to rewrite.  I couldn't get past a few pages of them now; they're awful, but the story is worth getting back to. Writing is like singing.  If you're tone deaf, you should just give up and stop annoying those within earshot.  If you can sing, you need to work at it if you want to do more than sing in the church choir. It just means that more people will see your work.  Signing your name on a contract doesn't improve your writing skills.  It does mean that people will have higher expectations of you... Phil

Murph's point is that most writers on SS are not at a pro level and shouldn't delude themselves and should instead work hard to get there.

He's being sarcastic.

I stand by what I said.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe I stand by what I said. Phil

Which is fair enough..I agree.

If the "Nightmare On Elm St - remake script" can be made into a movie... Anything can.  That is all one needs to tell themselves for motivation.  

What with classic dialogue like -- "I'm only petting him" & "We were kids, we would have said anything back then"  This is probably the worst movie I've seen in the last 5 years.  Easily.  Characters float in and out.  There is no decisive lead until about 30 min into it.  Freddy is a sympathetic, misunderstood, monster.  It's all a train wreck.  All of it.

If you consider that script pro level you're crazy.  I have it if you all want to read it too.  Absolute junk.  And yes, even my worst script is better.

I'd like to see it, Balt.  Can you E-mail it over to me?  jeffbush3@broadstripe.net.  Thanks.

BTW, I read the first 30 pages of Frozen and was so unimpressed.  Just garbage, IMO.  I'll be watching the actual movie this weekend.

Jeff,

if I was to write comments on the script for Frozen I would have a bunch too. What bothered me most were little things like it being winter on the ski slopes and then we suddenly have thunder! Then some snow some hail then the moon shines and more thunder and snow... Not to mention the loooong set-up.

I didn't say this script was brilliant or anything. This question I had didn't even have to do with the Frozen script. I meant in general. Frozen did have something that I'm trying to figure out what it was as this happens to me a lot when I read "pro" scripts and that seldom happens to me when I read scripts here. Something kept me reading. Was it the characters? Maybe. I'm pretty sure that the situation got continuously worse for them had something to do with it too. I don't know, but please don't misunderstand and think I loved this script.

I read Let Me In today!  Now that was good!  Completely different style from Frozen which was written sort of on the plain side.

I know, Pia.  I'm just really surprised you felt anything for the characters, cause there wasn't much to really like or relate to.  The dialogue went nowhere as well, and the first 25 pages were basically all dialogue.

To me, this is a script that would be put down quickly for so many different reasons.

We all view things differently, and that's cool with me.

A while ago I suggested a special version of the script club where we take a board member's script and compare and contrast it to a successful example of the genre...eg one that's either sold for a good amount, or has made a successful film, in order to see how it can be improved and tightened etc

I'm going to suggest that again.

I think we should do a blind taste test where we have 10 single pages from a script, some from SS some from pros and see how many people can tell which is which.

Quoted from mcornetto I think we should do a blind taste test where we have 10 single pages from a script, some from SS some from pros and see how many people can tell which is which.

I thought about that as well.

Be good if someone could pick a mix...blacklist, top class types, mediocre cinema releases, flops, then the generally accepted better quality ones from ss, downwards.

Quoted from mcornetto I think we should do a blind taste test where we have 10 single pages from a script, some from SS some from pros and see how many people can tell which is which.

It would have to be an unposted script.  

My two cents.


Phil

Dreamscale, I have made my point clear enough, if you cannot understand it then you obviously have a problem, not me. Why you insist on keep coming back with silly claims, taking my words out of context is a puzzle.

In the context of this thread, and Pia's question,  pro script is a script that is deemed good enough to be sold, or at least get mentioned on the black list. I am talking about specs here, primarily because this is what is important to me.

I have never, not once, suggested that a pro script only becomes a pro script when it is sold. My logic is clear on this, A spec will only get sold if it is a pro script. You keep getting that the wrong way round and there is a fundamental difference. If a SS script gets sold it does not suddenly become a pro script, my reasoning is that if an SS script gets sold it is because it already is a pro script.

Screewriting is an art, it is a craft and in order to be successful at it you need to work hard, there are lots of things to learn. And again, this has nothing to do with format, this is about writing stories. Part of that learning process is writing scripts, though in the majority of cases these scripts are not great, they are not well written enough to be sold. SS is full of these scripts! But that is okay, that is not a dig, this is a starting point, every script that someone writes will be better than the last until one day it all falls into place.

What I get from this thread is that there are people who think they can already write scripts as good as the pros and it is only bad luck stopping them getting sold, and therefore they do not need to improve, therefore the theory of story structure does not apply to them.

There is a saying...

"Only a fool does the same thing each time and expects a different result".

This kind of thinking is delusional.

I can read any spec script and immediately know it was written by someone who understands at least the basics of writing a screenplay, and again, just for the folks at the back, this has nothing to do with format. I personally do not give a  shit whether your slugs are in bright pink and you have six "smash to's" on every page. I am talking about screenwriting skills like character development, dialogue that tells me more than just what characters are saying, dramatic structure, theme and more.

It is no coincidence that the scripts that are deemed good enough to be at this level are written by writers who have at least a basic grasp of these concepts. They are there, in all of these scripts. Even if the script is overall pretty bad, you can still see the skill that was used to write it. In fact it often makes it easier to pinpoint where the scripts falls down if it has been written professionally.

There are very few scripts here that I can say are written as well.

if you don't want to believe then fine, if you want to carry on deluding yourself then fine, I don't really care, But I fail to see how anybody can be successful at anything if they cannot at least acknowledge those who are and try and figure out why they are.

And that really is my last word.  

Ok.  Anyone interested in the Blind Taste Test send (to my email address which can be found in my profile).

The image of a single page from a script.  You can usually do this on windows by hitting Alt/PrtScr while you have the pdf open to the page and it's the topmost window.  Then you can usually paste it into the email.  I don't know how to do this on a Mac. (One page per person please).  

Indicate whether you consider it professional or SS, who the author is and the name of the script it is from.

Please make the subject of the Email Blind Taste Test.

If I get at least ten, I'll post ten in a thread and we can have our test.  

Quoted from mcornetto Ok.  Anyone interested in the Blind Taste Test send (to my email address which can be found in my profile). The image of a single page from a script.  You can usually do this on windows by hitting Alt/PrtScr while you have the pdf open to the page and it's the topmost window.  Then you can usually paste it into the email.  I don't know how to do this on a Mac. (One page per person please).   Indicate whether you consider it professional or SS, who the author is and the name of the script it is from. Please make the subject of the Email Blind Taste Test. If I get at least ten, I'll post ten in a thread and we can have our test.

Personally Mr C. I don't see how single page will work, We are then getting back to the idea that the differences are in writing style, format and anything else easily gleamed from a single page.

Much of what I am talking about is the differences in how a story is structured, how characters are developed, how the theme affects what characters say to each other etc.. These to me are the stand outs in pro scripts, not just a well written action line or a funny bit of dialogue.

Quoted from Murphy Personally Mr C. I don't see how single page will work, We are then getting back to the idea that the differences are in writing style, format and anything else easily gleamed from a single page. Much of what I am talking about is the differences in how a story is structured, how characters are developed, how the theme affects what characters say to each other etc.. These to me are the stand outs in pro scripts, not just a well written action line or a funny bit of dialogue.

That's fine Murphy.  Then don't do it.