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One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.
So please, I implore you all. Stop bumping the threads. Stop trying to help. Stop reading the script. Just let it die. There comes a point where you turn into a troll yourself.
It's a sad day when a bad script becomes a very hot thread quicker than some of the best work on this site.
I agree. But I don't think it will stop. Why? Have no clue, but I know it won't stop.
Gabe
Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages. https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
I've stayed out of that thread since early, when I was trying to be constructive. But I have to admit, there has been some entertainment value, and I do look at it now and then. Sorry, can't help myself! I also thought Hogan's Heroes was a great show, so I'm easily amused.
Troll threads will never stop. Some people just can't help but comment every time one comes around. Some of them enjoy egging on, some try to play moderator and some just flat out fall for the bait. A good number of them should no better but the anonymity of the Internet just seems to facilitate one's inability to keep their mouth shut (or rather keyboard untouched).
The rest, even if they don't comment, will watch. There's always a silent crowd browsing those threads. I'm as guilty as the rest of them. Sometimes they're entertaining while others, just awe-inspiring in their stupidity.
I'm agreed with the topic, regardless. At some point, you have to realize you're talking to a brick wall. Sometimes, that moment comes sooner than later. Trolls aren't going to let you have the last word. They just aren't. So might as well leave them feeling smart but looking like an idiot. When is that ever not the case?
I'm agreed with the topic, regardless. At some point, you have to realize you're talking to a brick wall. Sometimes, that moment comes sooner than later. Trolls aren't going to let you have the last word. They just aren't. So might as well leave them feeling smart but looking like an idiot. When is that ever not the case?
I call this a failure on the mods' part. That second script should've been locked down quickly. It wasn't. And I will always respond to a jackass to calls me out. If the mods want to stop this, they should lock the thread.
The thread should be locked because it began its plummet very early on. It's not a productive thread; it never will be. VA wants to be a pain in the ass and you're letting him.
The significance of this board lies in that idea of writers helping writers. When a writer shows up and completely ignores what others say, then it's a failure on the board.
When a writer shows up and completely ignores what others say, then it's a failure on the board.
Indeed. We all know what we are talking about here, and in two cases now it is just that -- an Epic Fail.
So why are people posting? Egging him on? Giving him reason to respond?
The only reason those threads are going nuts is OTHER PEOPLE.
If everybody just left VA alone to fiddle his diddle, the thread would quickly die and sink like a stone -- without a lock.
I still contend "the lock" is not fair when everybody is gathered around the author constantly poking him with pointy sticks -- and that is exactly what is going on here.
I did my best to mod out extraneous and pointless post in that thread. So it's not a failure on my part. I say we just ignore him for now. Let the thread die down. Essentially, it's use and him who are promoting and keeping it going. Let's boost up other threads and focus on doing that.
I still contend "the lock" is not fair when everybody is gathered around the author constantly poking him with pointy sticks -- and that is exactly what is going on here.
Are you saying that you don't want to lock the thread because you want us to make fun of him? Nothing good will come of the thread... and this guy is too stupid to be insulted.
Actually, that's not what's going on here. We're joking now knowing the futility our any earnest endeavors, however, before hand I did make several efforts to maintain and offer constructive advice.
Ha...imagine such a thing. Yes, I think you might be right.
And yeah, the thread will be locked eventually anyways...as it must be...I was just kind of trying to make a point before the hammer goes down...pissing in the wind, so to speak.
And yeah, the thread will be locked eventually anyways...as it must be...
Damn. 1500 views in a little over a day. After the thread gets locked, everybody's invited to continue the discussion at the threads for any of my scripts. (I know people won't be there for my story, but I'm pretty good at fooling myself and the views and high number of posts'll boost my confidence anyway.)
Part of the reason that thread is not locked yet is that I do not like feeling as if I am being bullied into taking action I do not necessarily agree with.
Close thread-watchers will recognize a few posters "stepping up" the level of offensiveness -- so that I have no choice but to lock it.
That upsets me a bit, when they could have so easily just left well enough alone.
I think that calling someone a pedophile is the pinnacle of offensiveness. But guess what? The thread continued!
Pardon me for not poring over every word of his senseless drivel and perhaps missing something.
For the most part, I was more interested in what fresh provocations other members that in theory should know better might be foisting upon his ridiculous thread to help keep it alive.
Keeping it up and now locked, that baseless accusation as well as horrendous grammar is there to stick and it's for him to own. Now one is going to take him serious with post like that, and I doubt he'll be around much longer if that's how he goes about on these boards. He looks like an ass, Phil looks justified in his retaliation. That's a pretty good way to end it.
I think that calling someone a pedophile is the pinnacle of offensiveness. But guess what? The thread continued!
Phil
Yes, it did. Specifically, it continued with this:
Quoted from dogglebe
Quiet Jeff. The retard will think you're serious.
Quoted from dogglebe
You're too F**king stupid to be in the Illuminati... or the Special Olympics.
And then, with this...
Quoted from dogglebe
The mods are failing big time, here.
Assuming you mean "failing" in the context of maintaining the civility of the thread and keeping it on topic, I think you, Phil, in this specific case, and many other regulars, in past cases, are much more to blame than the mods, and just as much to blame as Varshawn or whatever his name is. This behaviour makes us all, and the site in general, look bad to filmmakers and potential discussion board members alike, and I don't understand why it has to be like this so consistently.
Assuming you mean "failing" in the context of maintaining the civility of the thread and keeping it on topic, I think you, Phil, in this specific case, and many other regulars, in past cases, are much more to blame than the mods, and just as much to blame as Varshawn or whatever his name is. This behaviour makes us all, and the site in general, look bad to filmmakers and potential discussion board members alike, and I don't understand why it has to be like this so consistently.
I'm actually agreeing with Heretic here in a small way. Its funny, because me and him/her have been into on the boards before. I think I called him/her a practicing film critic. Not a writer, or maybe that was Clorox. Either way, I think name calling should be deleted immediately. As stupid as I've been and even my fights with SR, I don't think i've ever called him an outright offensive name.
Anyone who uses retard, asshole, pedophile seems like they've lost their cool and can't think of more powerful words to get their point across. Its supposed to be a site full of writers.
I locked it when it seemed like it was InquiringMind's script and he was just going to argue with everyone's comments. I thought that was particularly unproductive. I unlocked it when my mistake about the author was brought to my attention.
Then I was going to try and keep things on topic but I got really bored with it and fell asleep. Someone else locked it later and Don unlocked it this morning. I'm not going to lock it again if Don unlocked it. And I'm most certainly not going to clean that mess. So you're on your own. Just don't post on it an it will fall off the portal.
I've managed to clean alot of it up. I.E the flame war shit and what not. However, I'm tempted to wipe it all and literally erase every post. He's not here to listen, just to start fights with those who don't like the script. The way I look at it, his script doesn't deserve any comments because he's just going to use the good ones to inflate his ego and the bad ones he'll cast aside. Why give him any attention?
There's nothing positive that can come out of that thread.
Someone else locked it later and Don unlocked it this morning. I'm not going to lock it again if Don unlocked it. And I'm most certainly not going to clean that mess. So you're on your own. Just don't post on it an it will fall off the portal.
I locked it -- and Don unlocked it this evening to the those of us not in Australia.
Everything else Cornetto said goes ditto for me. I'm done there. You guys should quit screwing around with it.
It isn't fair to expect us to babysit that kind of stuff then come back and bitch at us for not doing exactly what you think we ought to do.
Then I think Don should explain himself if he's not only going against the wishes of the more avid board members, but even the pretty godamm level headed mods you have working for you...
It wasn't unlocked. It was reposted. Varshawn had submitted another draft of his "satire". That's why I deleted everything. It's evident that he's not interested in using this community as it should be, but rather, wants to start flame wars.
It looks like the thread was just brought back to square one. Someone (not sure who) deleted all the comments. So everyone should be able to relax now and get back to their normal business.
Then I think Don should explain himself if he's not only going against the wishes of the more avid board members, but even the pretty godamm level headed mods you have working for you...
I am reading this like you thought my my post was aimed at Don.
I better clarify. In no way or form was it.
I never second-guess the man -- and neither should anyone -- there but for the grace of Don and all that...
I am pretty sure Don unlocked it for much the same reason I did not want to lock it in the first place.
I'm going with it was reposted. Notice, Don posted a few other scripts around the same time it was "unlocked." He was posting an unrevised, "revised" draft.
Yes, I reopened the thread. My original intent was to clean it out and hope that it would go on its merry way. That, obviously, didn't happen.
With regard to the overabundance of righteous indignation directed toward the 'failings' of the moderators, let me say that any 'failing' on the discussion board is entirely mine.
I do not second guess the moderators even if I disagree with the decision. They make hundreds of good decisions daily on the boards, I'd be a douche to call any of them out for one decision that I didn't agree with. In this particular case, leaving the thread open was a decision that I agreed with. I'm getting tired of folks verbally poking other folks, particularly those new to the site, until they get a reaction out of them. I am particularly incensed when the bully turns around after starting the fire and blames the moderators because they got a bloody nose.
Folks. Let's be nice to each other. Let's help each other out. It is so cool to see someone raising money for a project and then a week later to see that person who was raising money donate to another person's project. Similarly, it is so cool to see a posting from someone about to submit a script to a contest asking for reviews and everyone jumping in to help him/her out.
Any, you know, sometimes the person you are trying to help out doesn't fully appreciate what you've done. It happens. Let it go.
Sometimes the best action to take is to do nothing.
Yes, I reopened the thread. My original intent was to clean it out and hope that it would go on its merry way. That, obviously, didn't happen.
With regard to the overabundance of righteous indignation directed toward the 'failings' of the moderators, let me say that any 'failing' on the discussion board is entirely mine.
I do not second guess the moderators even if I disagree with the decision. They make hundreds of good decisions daily on the boards, I'd be a douche to call any of them out for one decision that I didn't agree with. In this particular case, leaving the thread open was a decision that I agreed with. I'm getting tired of folks verbally poking other folks, particularly those new to the site, until they get a reaction out of them. I am particularly incensed when the bully turns around after starting the fire and blames the moderators because they got a bloody nose.
Folks. Let's be nice to each other. Let's help each other out. It is so cool to see someone raising money for a project and then a week later to see that person who was raising money donate to another person's project. Similarly, it is so cool to see a posting from someone about to submit a script to a contest asking for reviews and everyone jumping in to help him/her out.
Any, you know, sometimes the person you are trying to help out doesn't fully appreciate what you've done. It happens. Let it go.
Sometimes the best action to take is to do nothing.
Don
Would it offend you if every moment I read your posts, I hear Don Corleone's whispy voice? Needless to say, It backs me off easily...
I've been here since Sep-05. I've seen this site change. Seen people come and go. Fights, arguments, great collaborations and anything in between. Not sure if anyone else have noticed, but a lot of members have left lately. Some just quit coming here. Some went as far as deleting their accounts. Why? I can't speak for all of them, but for those I know and keep contact with off the boards, it's the negativity, stupid arguments and format nazi shit that drove them away.
Simply Scripts is unique and a great tool for any screenwriter regardless of level. Lets not ruin it. Right now it's a turn-off to a lot of people.
For those of you who've been around for a while, go back and look at some of your script threads. See who commented and offered great comments and suggestions, but is no longer around. It's quite sad…
The reason we don't get along is the same reason we all had different answers to the lightbulb question. We all have different interpretations and they are all correct.
If you stifle some of those interpretations, like the people who leave want - if you give in to intolerance then you are really limiting a lot of growth that can occur. Growth because you are exposed to interpretations you strongly, passionately disagree with.
I suggest that these people leave because they fear strong differing opinions. And I'm not saying there hasn't been some bad behaviour on the part of forum members, but only one of these people that left actually brought anything up to me as a moderator and that was because they didn't like the fairness of my moderation. Get that, they left because I was being too fair.
There's lines to be drawn, no doubt. But they are a lot blurrier than you would expect. There's no right or wrong here - except maybe the people that leave and try to lay their guilt trips on surviving members.
When I first came on this site a couple of years ago, many of the posters whom I really liked chatting are gone. It's easy to fall into the "I've learned a bit so I will slam every writer who crosses the line" trap.
This a great site. I left once and swore I would not be back. I was so beaten down from (what I thought) was people who enjoyed tearing me up, that I never wanted to be on this post again.
Don asked me to stay. I will always owe him that. This place has a HUGE learning curve to it. It involves, writing, technique, style, ability, humor, and skill, not to mention many others. As a member advances in one, it seems sometimes a dozen are waiting to point out the 99 problems he/she hasn't adressed yet.
Someone is always going to be offended here. If they are not, this site no longer has validity. But I think the mean spiritness has sort of become more the norn than it used to be.
With that, both the old timers we rely on as well as the new blood so vital for this sites growth, have seemed to be in agreement that there can be other sites that just might offer more than this one.
stupid arguments and format nazi shit that drove them away.
Simply Scripts is unique and a great tool for any screenwriter regardless of level. Lets not ruin it. Right now it's a turn-off to a lot of people.
I'll never go against format nazis. As long as they know how what they're talking about. And help the writer. Of late, I know when I open a script and its written by a newbie. Instead of helping, I just close them out.
I don't want to be a format nazi. I've given up passing on what little knowledge I have about this format because I've been accused as such. Why do you think the mods so rarely comment on scripts? I know they read some...
People don't want to hear it. This is kind of why I've alienated a few from this site in my day. So, I stick to those who've at least tried to learn the craft first.
Before I posted my first short here, I read two books on screenwriting. Read several scripts and commented on some written by folks here. I was kind towards any criticism I got, because I needed it.
Some of these new members may have been attacked with a heavy hand. But, they did not respond as persons, I believe, who want to learn the craft. They just got defensive. This Val guy just wants to argue. Period. IMO...
I'm always confused by the term "format Nazi", and the negative connotation that goes along with it.
Are you saying that it's a bad thing when someone points out glaring errors in the actual writing? Do these writers who, for some reason, can't really write, prefer to have their scripts riddled with obvious errors? Is it a good or bad thing when a reader lets the writer know he's got action taking place way outside where the current Slug says we are?
The way I look at it is writers often get free editing services, which most direly need.
How is it any different then a reader telling a writer that a part of his story makes no sense? Or that a character that saves the day in the end, died 30 pages ago?
It is too bad when good people leave the site. We all make our own choices and we do things for a reason. If people want to be praised constantly for the horseshit they churn out, they should stick to showing their scripts to their families. If they want real feedback, SS is the place to be.
Jeff, I prefer scripts written in present tense and little things like unnecessary "ands" and "as" and "asides" annoy me especially when a simple thing like that can be removed and in the process get rid of ugly space wasting orphans. These things annoy me because those are all things that was hammered into me when I first started trying to write screenplays here. However, fact is that none of those things matter that much. The readers will read the first 10 pages regardless and all that really matters is the story. A writer's style is not really a hindrance.
The people I'm thinking of that have left this site and that I miss are all great writers. They do not look for praise and would certainly never ask for input from their families.
I'm a bit surprised that you would rather read a crappy story that was written perfectly than a great story with some formatting errors. I've read a lot of boring scripts. They are tough to get through. When I read a great story, I don't even notice the format...
A great writer doesn't always write a great story, at least not in the eyes of everyone. It's impossible, because it's completely a matter of opinion.
But, a great writer can write a great script every time, once they understand how to. And by "great", I'm talking well written, clean, etc.
You and others make it seem like there are all these "great stories" floating around here...or anywhere else for that matter. Not in my opinion. A great story for me is one that is well crafted, makes sense all the way around, and is entertaining, and those are very hard to come by.
Now, don't get me wrong, you know damn well by the movies I say I love that maybe I'm not so hard to please, but then again, the vast majority of the movies I watch are pure crap, IMO. So, I am hard to please, but can be pleased by "simple" movies that are well done.
One more thing...people seem to hate to have to write clean scripts, but yet they bow at the alter of Blake Snyder and his other crony gurus. This makes zero sense to me. Someone, please show me a script that Mr. Cat wrote that's a great script.
A great story comes from a unique, great idea, and they don't come along very often.
A great script comes from a great writer, and that's just a matter of practice, commitment, research, and natural talent.
I don't think the issue's so much of a matter of being format nazis as it is readers jumping on scripts they know are going to be awful. I think if an average writer posted a script with a couple typos or formatting no-nos, readers would point them out but not harp on them.
The trick is not to read the 150+ page sci-fi from a nonmember with a format rating. But people do it all the time and on the occasion that the disgruntled writer will actually respond, chances are the thread'll make it to at least two pages of argument.
I know we're here to help other writers but it seems to me the writers who want help actually do some research on formatting before posting and care enough to proofread, even if they don't catch everything. The ones that don't will throw a script together spontaneously and either not respond to criticism or respond poorly.
You can defend yourself being a format nazi but not so much ganging up on a junk script because you don't want to read something that won't waste your time. People will gladly own up to one but not the other. That's the issue to me.
2 of my all time favorite scripts are The Cabin and Cannibal. They are both junk scripts, but they're so bad they're actually great.
If you're referring to the "The Ill" thread, I'm not sure what to say. It is one of those instant classics in its ineptitude and sheer terribleness. There is entertainment in that just like there's entertainment in pissers.
If someone has no clue how bad something is and can't or won't listen to reason, they're making their own bed.
So everyone's just looking for the next best/worst script? I read No Meat. I believe you when you say you enjoyed those scripts. I can't say I'd believe everyone else.
You should read "Of Cannibals and Cabins" - much better than "No Meat".
No, James, I'm not saying that peeps are looking for the next best worst script, but there is entertainment value there.
Many peeps actually provided sound advice and feedback on both of that dude's scripts. His responses were worth the price of admission alone. It may be sad that this is viewed as entertainment by me, but that probably tells you how little actual entertainment I have going on in my sad life.
Bert, No Meat is a script of mine written for that Vegan OWC awhile back, as was Of Cannibals and Cabins, and Wolves at the Door. All 3 were hilarious (IMO, at least) pissers.
Mark, yes, you are correct. It is truly classic. You should check it out. Even greater though, is Chris Halvorson's Cannibal.
Shawn, get a nice heavy glass of Old 40 and read Chris Halvorson's Cannibal...I guarantee not only will you be very entertained and amused, but also, that you'll spit Old 40 everywhere, numerous times. It's probably my favorite script of all time!
How many Omers do you have now? Nevermind. You don't have to answer that.
We had another one of our clusterf---s. That's all.
Phil
The count is eight, but it's not the action of the count. That is neither here nor there and doesn't amount to a hill of beans. What I'm trying to raise is the intention by the action-- by the focused energy, like when people write themselves to death and finally produce one helluva piece of art from an enormous amount of self discipline.
Ah well, on the clusterfuck. I'm sure it's served its purpose. We might all be lost, but as long as we're lost together, that's what counts.
I'm having a hard time settling down to any kind of fiction these days. Spent the other night dragging my husband out to watch the stars. It was so very clear and Castor and Pollox were right above us.
If you guys get the chance to get out of whatever city lights, take your lover, go enjoy yourselves and acquaint yourselves again-- under the Great Canopy, away from the words and dross of knowledge.
All I have to say is I just read a halfway decent sp in the thriller section. If folks bump up Mr. Troll, it would be a shame. Or, read something else...but it's time to step away from the troll threads.
I have attempted to read that garbage, Phil, but to me, it wasn't entertaining, it was just offensive, and pure garbage.
I think Malloy is the funniest man on the planet. If only he intended to be this way...
I read, somewhere, he is a retired NYC court officer. You'd never know it from reading the trial sequences he writes. He has no clue. Funny stuff, though. It made milk come out of my nose... and I don't drink milk.
I think the reason Trolls are being fed, and the reason it will never stop happening, is because it's the perfect thing for all of your personalities. I mean, just look at this thread...it's six pages long. Obviously everyone here loves to hear themselves talk and loves for everyone else to know that they have an opinion, and an opinion about your opinion, and an opinion about your response to their opinion.
If anyone in this thread has responded to a troll on purpose, then they have no business whining about it or blaming it on the mods. There's a super easy way to not respond to trolls once you discover that they are in fact trolls, and that is: don't respond to them. Super complicated, I know, but it really works. You don't even have to be an adult to understand this. And to counter the troll thread, comment on a legitimate script thread to bump the bad one down.
Sounds like a much more effective plan than writing six pages worth of comments on the subject. Seriously, you guys are like Congress. Debate everything, accomplish nothing.
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Stop feeding the trolls.
Logged
format rating. But people do it all the time and on the occasion that the disgruntled writer will actually respond, chances are the thread'll make it to at least two pages of argument.
