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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    General Boards    Questions or Comments  ›  How much is too much?
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  Author    How much is too much?  (currently 3331 views)
Ledbetter
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 2:46pm Report to Moderator
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I'm currently working on a new script and I've been doing some research on murder, torture and the mind of people who could do these things.

I thought I knew what level man could take it too when it comes to depravity. I was dead wrong.

In researching this, I stumbled upon a real snuff video make by a group of teenagers called the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs.

** For those who don’t know what a snuff film is, its raw video of an actual torture and murder of another human being.

In it, they torture and murder a man in the woods using a screwdriver and a hammer.

Anyway, this film really took it to a whole different level. Is there such a thing as pornographic violence?

Can you go too far?

I want my scenes to pop out and grab the viewer but is there a level where it just goes beyond horror and enters into an area we shouldn’t go to as writers?

Or is it gloves off, write it and let the reader decide if it's too much?

Any input would be appreciated.

Shawn.....><
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Grandma Bear
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 2:58pm Report to Moderator
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It probably depends on the readers/viewers. Jeff and I could probably watch just about anything while some can't deal with anything beyond a rom-com. Have you seen A Serbian Film?

I would say write what you want. If a producer/director likes your story they will make it into their vision. They could be toning down the violence or even kick it up a bit.


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alffy
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 3:00pm Report to Moderator
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The Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs certainly went too far.

How did you stumble upon a snuff movie?

As far as writing something too graphic?  Well I think there is a line but in recent years the movie industry has been pushing it further and further away.  I'd say stay away from children and you might be okay.
Is your movie a fake snuff movie or a torture movie or something else?

I guess you should just write it and see how it's received.  If you get mail threatening you for being sick and depraved you've gone too far. lol.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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pmailhot
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 3:06pm Report to Moderator
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There is a limit, it's called class. Perpetuating anything remotely close to the barabarism you describe is exactly what the world does not need.  That isn't art, it's depravity. You can "pop" without resorting to the criminally inhumane antics of those beasts.
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 3:18pm Report to Moderator
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I say gloves off for the first draft. Have a reader read it. That reader will tell you if you went to far and what to do about it. lol.

Sometimes less is better and the way you do it.  Look at Psycho.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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George Willson
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 3:20pm Report to Moderator
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I would also note to use your own sense while doing it. Like so many other things, if you have to ask if you've gone too far, you probably have. Never do something for the sake of doing it. Make sure it has a purpose.


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Heretic
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 3:44pm Report to Moderator
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I think George has brought up the only barometer that you really need -- purpose.  If a scene or sequence has a purpose within the overall film, rather than for the sake of itself, then you aren't going "too far," in my opinion.  As long as you're committed to your view of the purpose of the film/script as a whole, whatever you can reasonably say is in keeping with that is fair game.

To me "violence pornography" functions the same way as sexual pornography -- the overall story is subservient to the individual sequences.  You're not telling a good story if this happens.  If sequences function as they should within the overall work, though, I don't really think there are any boundaries; or, boundaries will be necessarily created by that restriction.

Otherwise you get, yes, A Serbian Film, which is nothing but laughable.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 3:45pm Report to Moderator
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Strictly speaking from the hip for a writing perspective...

I say go hog wild on the rough draft.
Let it all spill out onto the page as you see fit...

Then sift through the organs over drafts and see what repeats itself...
Get rid of that sledgehammer repetition...
And then justify the remaining violence with how it illustrates your tale.
If it serves story, characters and theme, I'll read anything.

Regards,
E.D.


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B.C.
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 3:45pm Report to Moderator
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Gloves off.  You can't go too far.  It's fiction. There's a whole bunch of people who can and probably will censor your writing if it's turned into a film.  Don't worry about it.

I would be surprised if anyone could come up something sicker than what already has been committed to film already. (Although I think you should try, Led!)  And I'm talking about mainstream films, not just films outside the 'mainstream' like A Serbian Film, the Human Centipede or even Eden Lake.  You know, the Saw franchise has been a popcorn seller and Lionsgate's biggest cash cow for years.  EDIT -- I'm not saying any of these films are good, btw.

It's better just to go for it and tone it back later if you want to.  

I don't understand this 'responsibility of the writer' stuff.  Stories have been full of filth, depravity, rape and murder since time began. The best ones usually are.  

The responsibility lies with the reader or viewer.  If they are uncomfortable, they have the choice to stop reading or stop watching. They can also keep the material out reach of children, while there at it.  And they can also refrain from making half-arsed moral rants about art, movies or video games leading to the downfall of western civilization, too.

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B.C.  -  August 21st, 2012, 3:56pm
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Pale Yellow
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 4:11pm Report to Moderator
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What is right ...what is wrong?

Write what you want to write. There is a market for everything...though some markets are very small.

If it moves the story .....then write it. I'm with Jeff/Pia...I'd watch just about anything and have.

Write on.
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Ledbetter
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 5:00pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy
How did you stumble upon a snuff movie?

I'd say stay away from children and you might be okay.

Is your movie a fake snuff movie or a torture movie or something else?


There is a website dedicated to dark side of humanity. I wont post the site address here. Waaaay to violent. My friend recommended it for my research.

As far as the children goes, my script has the rape and murder of children in it, but believe me, I am handeling thoses scene very VERY carefully.

This research has to do with some other part of the same script.

It's not a fake snuff film but it does involve the video taping the rape of children.

Trust me though, it's not written in a way where any violence of children is ever shown in film.

Shawn.....><


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Heretic
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 5:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from B.C.
I don't understand this 'responsibility of the writer' stuff.  Stories have been full of filth, depravity, rape and murder since time began. The best ones usually are.  

The responsibility lies with the reader or viewer.  If they are uncomfortable, they have the choice to stop reading or stop watching. They can also keep the material out reach of children, while there at it.  And they can also refrain from making half-arsed moral rants about art, movies or video games leading to the downfall of western civilization, too.


Too good an opening!  

"All great movements are popular movements. They are the volcanic eruptions of human passions and emotions, stirred into activity by the ruthless Goddess of Distress or by the torch of the spoken word cast into the midst of the people."

"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach."

What Adolf Hitler rightly realized was the power of the word and the myth to affect the way people think as a mass, and the result of his taking advantage of this phenomenon was, in fact, the irrevocable alteration of entire civilizations (I don't think "downfall" really means much, particularly).  

The current popular mediums of myth are films and television (and perhaps memes, as a fledgeling contender, anyway, as they begin to develop their own character).  It's all well and good to place responsibility on the receiver of myth rather than the creator, but we know too much about the effects of group mentality and the power of social constraints and norms to reasonably argue that humans can be expected to control themselves in stressful situations.  Hitler built power on the myth of a country held back by one segment of its population, and the danger associated with acceptance of that myth is clear.  But our myths can be dangerous too.  The myth of horror and action films is often that some people deserve to die.  The myth of some horror films is that it is acceptable to enjoy human suffering presented for its own sake.  The myth of comedy films is often that non-Caucasians are stupid.  The myth of many films is that other cultures are either contemptible or nonsensical.  The myths of Islam can lead to murder.  The myths of Christianity can lead to murder.  The myths of atheism breed closed thinking or undue contempt.  

To fail to understand the power of myth in shaping society and human thought is, in my mind, a failure as a writer, or as any creator of myth.  None of which is to say, if you do recognize the power of myth, that you should censor yourself in any way.  I simply believe you should be committed to the message that you intend to get across.  If you're trying to say that it's acceptable to enjoy watching human suffering, then absolutely, write a fake snuff film or whatever you gotta do.  Just don't pretend that what you put into the world doesn't have an effect.

Obviously Led has a different message in mind, and as long as he's true to it, then I don't see how he can go wrong...and yes, I'd be in the "gloves off" corner, in that sense.
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nybabz
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 5:16pm Report to Moderator
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striking. bb
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 5:37pm Report to Moderator
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I would prob suggest watching films that you found them to be "fucked up" in a captivating way and notice what they did in the scene. lol.

Why see sick real life shit for if you're not going to put it on paper? You're just fucking yourself up. lol. And that's the last thing you'll want to do. IMO


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Ledbetter
Posted: August 21st, 2012, 5:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
Have you seen A Serbian Film?



Pia,

Is that the name of the movie or are you talking about a film from Serbia?

Shawn.....><
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