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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    General Boards    Questions or Comments  ›  Multiple protagS?
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  Author    Multiple protagS?  (currently 3644 views)
Reef Dreamer
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 2:40pm Report to Moderator
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Decided to start working on a feature and straight out the block is an issue since the story involves a group of friends.

At present, I have no single protag, rather they have individual stories, but I'm wondering if this is a mistake.

If you look at The Hangover, for example, I'm sure someone can say it is XYZ story, but it comes across as a group.

So, questions, if I don't have a obvious protag;

1) am I doomed to fail?

2) films with similar groups I should consider (eg in the seventh seal this is pretty much a group story, even if the eye catching story is that of the knight playing chess with death)

3) suggestions and articles

Thanks folks



My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
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Mr. Blonde
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 2:58pm Report to Moderator
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What good are choices if they're all bad?

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It's nearly impossible to not have that one character who's above the others. Even in, as you said, The Hangover, the protagonist is Phil. There's always that one.


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alffy
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 3:01pm Report to Moderator
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I think some will say you should have an obvious protag even in group stories.  Think American Pie, Jim is probably the obvious protag, but later you could argue Stiflers case.

There are plenty of films out there were groups have no obvious protag.  The Hangover as you said, well that's not obvious is it.  The Breakfast Club?

Something Superbad has two protags and I'm not sure which is the lead?

If the characters stand out individually I think you'll be fine.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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khamanna
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 3:06pm Report to Moderator
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I'm thinking all these horror stories - a group of friends goes somewhere... We don't learn who the protag is until later.
Cabin in the Woods perhaps.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 3:08pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Bill!

Sounds like an ensemble may be the way to go...
Provided the individual stories impact each other.

Watch a few successful ensemble pics, decide for yourself!

Magnolia
The Big Chill
Crash

Damn near anything by Robert Altman!

Regards,
E.D.


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is producing a short based on my new feature!

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leitskev
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 3:17pm Report to Moderator
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The Fighter is on Netflix, and is an outstanding film. I have the script I think too.

The key thing is to have arcs in your characters. They have flaws, they grow, they change.

In The Fighter, the protag is the boxer, Micky Ward, but his older brother Dicky is almost equally a protag himself. Micky has to learn how to separate himself from his family's overbearing influence, to be his own man, but he has to do it in a way that he does not completely break away. He has to move out from under his brother's shadow.

Dicky has to see himself for the crack addict he is, a man living on past glory who is destroying those he loves with the way he lives. He has to free himself from this and learn that it's Micky's time now.

There are also pronounced arcs for Charlene, the girlfriend, and for the mother.

Keeping focused on one or two protags is usually best. Usually. Giving as many characters arcs you can gives the story depth.
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danbotha
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 3:31pm Report to Moderator
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Going to be short, I don't see a problem with it, at all.

Think of the film 'Crash' where they have multiple stories going on at once. In the end, they all join up, but even after that, the protag isn't exactly obvious. Not sure if this is what you were looking for...

Dan


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Baltis.
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 3:51pm Report to Moderator
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Frostbite has 5 protagonist, 2 antagonist and one variable towards the end.  If you are clear enough, yes, it can be done to success.  It's not easy and if your software has dyad read outs to tell you how strong your characters are it makes it much, much easier... If you're working with FD or something it's gonna be an uphill battle to find that right balance.

I shouldn't post this but I will --



That is my dyad list for ALL of my main characters in Frostbite... Notice all of them are above 80?  Not easy to do.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 5:47pm Report to Moderator
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A different question...do you need a protag? I just realized that there really isn't a protag in Them That's Dead, but it still works and is a great story.  


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leitskev
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 5:49pm Report to Moderator
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Them is a short, I think that's a different animal.

Let's check with our expert on shorts...oh, wait, that's you Pia!
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 6:46pm Report to Moderator
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Can you have multiple Protags and be successful?  Hell yeah, you can.  C'mon now.

Think about Pulp Fiction...Hell, think about any QT flick.

Sure, when it's all said and done, there will be 1 who has the most screen time, has the most lines, etc., but you don't need to worry about that now.

I hate to do it, but I'll actually agree with Khamanna - and horror is great genre to explore this with.  The "main" Protag is the Protag who happens to survive...the longest. Smart horror writers don't set up just 1 obvious survivor - cuz if they did, everyone would know damn well who will indeed survive.

As for the ever present and super important "arcs"?  Fuck 'em.  Who really cares?  Not me, man.  It really all depends on what kind of story you're trying to tell.

Just write an entertaining story and script and you're golden.
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Penoyer79
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 6:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Baltis.
Frostbite has 5 protagonist, 2 antagonist and one variable towards the end.  If you are clear enough, yes, it can be done to success.  It's not easy and if your software has dyad read outs to tell you how strong your characters are it makes it much, much easier... If you're working with FD or something it's gonna be an uphill battle to find that right balance.

I shouldn't post this but I will --



That is my dyad list for ALL of my main characters in Frostbite... Notice all of them are above 80?  Not easy to do.


dyad readouts? forgive my ignorance...

someone give me a quick explanation?

Baltis, what software are you using?



Quoted from Dreamscale
I hate to do it, but I'll actually agree with Khamanna - and horror is great genre to explore this with.  The "main" Protag is the Protag who happens to survive...the longest. Smart horror writers don't set up just 1 obvious survivor - cuz if they did, everyone would know damn well who will indeed survive.


Ridley Scott executed this brilliantly in "Alien."  

how many out there had Ripley surviving when this first came out? no way.
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Baltis.
Posted: August 24th, 2012, 11:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Penoyer79


dyad readouts? forgive my ignorance...

someone give me a quick explanation?

Baltis, what software are you using?



See, I shouldn't have shown it...    

The character Dyad is very helpful in letting you know how fluid your dialogue and character interaction is.  A very amateur mistake, and I learned this from Adam Levenberg, is you'll have a character talking to another character -- but instead of letting the conversation flow, you're tossing in an action line before either of them talk.  This is bad screenwriting and too many people do it.  In these instances your script Dyad, if you have one, would be hitting on 40's and 50's and 60's... you might have 1 or 2 characters above 70 or 80 by default.  Maybe...  

To have all of your characters above 80 is very, very, very good.  It shows you know

1. How to keep a conversation moving.
2. To leave the clutter out.

The dyad is also good for scene strength -- Too many writers think they can craft a good scene, but a good scene isn't just about entertaining someone.  A good scene should have a beginning, middle and end.  Depending on how you mark your scenes within your software, you should have about 40 to 60 "Actual" scenes in your movie -- Not scene headers, but SCENES.  

The software will break those down and give you a % based on how well each scene followed the guidelines.  
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Penoyer79
Posted: August 25th, 2012, 3:18am Report to Moderator
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glad i asked...thanks for answering. when it comes to screenplay writing - i don't even know what i don't know.

sounds like something i could really use.

are you using Sophocles?
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CoopBazinga
Posted: August 26th, 2012, 7:39pm Report to Moderator
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I think it will be very difficult to have no individual or clear protag. I'm not saying it's not done or never has been but wait until you finish the script and then tell us if no one character is more important than the rest.

I think you'll find that while developing the story, a single story arc will come out that punches above the rest, concentrate on this aspect and there is your protag. I find that story's change while writing even if you did plan it all out with treatments, beat sheets and what not.

Examples have all been covered like QT films or something like Sin City which tangle a lot of smaller stories into one.

Groups of friends movies - well you can't beat Stand By Me or the Goonies but both had someone who was above the rest.

How about the recent Avengers which really has no clear protag as it's a team of superheroes or even the Brad Pitt flick Sleepers.

Good luck with it, Bill.
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