Hello All,

I have recently completed episode 1 of a comedy TV sitcom and it does have a politically incorrect old man who says what he thinks.

There is a Muslim family that have moved in next door to him and I feel some of the dialogue or actions "MAY BE"? offensive to Muslim's. Not sure.

I thought I would post to see if there are any Muslim screenwriter on the site, that would be so kind to do a read and give me their opinions as I do want to get it right.

I feel that I have tried to be sensitive to any issues, though would like someone who is more connected with the faith to have a read.

Regards Alex

Would you have asked this question if the family next door were Hindus?

Not trying to cause trouble, but I don't like this hyper sensitivity around muslims. We're artists. We should write how we see things.

Hey Alex,

Screw sensitivity, if someone is offended that's their problem not yours.

Political correctness has gone to far to the point where people are scared to say what they think and feel which to me is bullshit.

Just my opinion

Michael

Thanks Pia,

I do agree with you though to be honest I really don't want to create any hassle or comeback on myself.

I have considered dropping the Muslim family and adding another race and are still undecided so the opinion of a practicing Muslim may be the balancing factor.

Alternatively making the family Arabs so it is a race and not a religion, though it probably would not change a lot.

I do know where you are coming from Pia and appreciate it, as I have gone back and forth over this in my head for weeks.

Alex.

Quoted from trickyb Hey Alex, Screw sensitivity, if someone is offended that's their problem not yours. Political correctness has gone to far to the point where people are scared to say what they think and feel which to me is bullshit. Just my opinion Michael

Thanks Michael.

I am sure there are many people that feel the same, though with occurrences happening around the world I am really not sure if I want the comeback !!!!!

Alex

It really depends how you portray this guy.  Archie Bunker (from All In The Family) is the epitome of bigotry on television.  For ten years he spoke his mind.  He got away with it because, when you listened to him, you realized just how foolish he sounded.  He wasn't going to convince anyone that his opinions were right.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe It really depends how you portray this guy.  Archie Bunker (from All In The Family) is the epitome of bigotry on television.  For ten years he spoke his mind.  He got away with it because, when you listened to him, you realized just how foolish he sounded.  He wasn't going to convince anyone that his opinions were right. Phil

Thanks Phil,

The guy is a lot like Archie Bunker and is a bigoted idiot though very lovable. He is an Aussie character and even though he says what he thinks, I feel it may be too much for someone to accept a few of his lines.

Really considering changing it to a non-sensitive race !!!!

Alex

Comedy is very subjective and it depends on the delivery.

I have a comedy here that has Muslims in it and the material I wrote would be considered very offensive if taken on its own.

Stop drop and pray, five times a day...

I have the daughter of the Muslim father in a Burka...the entire script. You never see her, yet the jokes are all lined up pertaining to her facial expressions… that are never seen.

And no matter where they are, they have to stop drop and pray, five times a day.

Even in a lesbian porn theater or at a carnival where they drop and pray towards Mecca, even though it aims them straight at a cow's a$$hole while it's taking a shite.

The reason no one bitched about it was because they were not singled out. I slammed all religions in the script.  

If it feels like you are spotlighting only them and you are putting it to an extreme. If you have them in the script for no other reason than to just be Muslim, then you're gonna fall a bit flat. Make them outlandish Muslims and it plays well, because like Phil alluded to...

If it's foolish, it's funny.

And here's my second answer...

Write how ever the fuck you want to write. No brakes...none at all.

Shawn.....><









  

Thanks Shawn,

My screenplay does have several races in it including Africa's, Indian's, pom's, Aussie's as well as gays and Muslims so not picking on one individual race or religion.

It does have many one liners. E.g the main character Ernie is talking to a lady in a Burka and he says to her "You look familiar"....... It's more that type of humor.

Regards Alex

South Park, Family Guy and other shows have won the freedom of making fun of everyone. If you target one specific religion or race you may be in tricky water.

It could come off as the writer seeming to have a specific issue with said group. If you write a comedy about muslims, I would make sure to diversify your cast and rip on everyone. So we know it's no holds barred. Just my opinion.

James

Quoted from jwent6688 South Park, Family Guy and other shows have won the freedom of making fun of everyone. If you target one specific religion or race you may be in tricky water. It could come off as the writer seeming to have a specific issue with said group. If you write a comedy about muslims, I would make sure to diversify your cast and rip on everyone. So we know it's no holds barred. Just my opinion. James

Hey James, I feel that the consensus is heading in the same direction as you.
Thanks for your input. Appreciated.

America's too uptight...that's my answer.

Well, as someone who's read the script, I can give you my opinion and say it's not offensive apart from a few cracks at the poms. Also, the script shows the multicultural society here in Australia.

But I would still give you a word of caution because it's a very fine line in Australia (where you'd hope to market this) at the moment.

Best of luck with it.

Quoted from CoopBazinga Well, as someone who's read the script, I can give you my opinion and say it's not offensive apart from a few cracks at the poms. Also, the script shows the multicultural society here in Australia. But I would still give you a word of caution because it's a very fine line in Australia (where you'd hope to market this) at the moment. Best of luck with it.

Thanks Steve,

You are one of the rare selected few who have done a read and I appreciate it.

Just a bit concerned that some of the jokes may be offensive and over and above that a producer would not want to take something on that would be a problem.

Having a character who does or says offensive things doesn't necessarily make your script "offensive". Those are two very different things. The question is of how the script treats that offensiveness. If you have a character that says bigoted things about Africans, and the script plays this as a straight laugh -- ie., we would laugh because we more or less agree with the statement -- then the script's probably "offensive." On the other hand, if we're supposed to laugh at the shock value of an inappropriate old man, obviously racist and sort of satirized or made pathetic for it, there's probably not anything "offensive" about that? Eastwood says terrible things throughout Gran Torino, but it works because we're able to see why he's that way, to pity him for it, and to laugh at him for it. When he says offensive things, it's still a joke at his expense, not at the expense of the culture he's being bigoted against.

As per Pia's point, I'd also say that there's no difference whether they're a Muslim family, or a Hindu family, or whatever. The question is whose expense the joke is at.

Quoted from Alex_212 My screenplay does have several races in it including Africa's, Indian's, pom's, Aussie's as well as gays and Muslims so not picking on one individual race or religion.

Hahahah! "Gays"?

Quoted from Heretic Hahahah! "Gays"?

- yeah, maybe just ditch the gays for now... (I'm joking   )

It is a tricky thing, especially with all the current stuff going on. I'd definitely be cautious.

Like Heretic says - there's a difference between a 'character' in the script, and the actual script being offensive. There are lots of characters in lots of scripts that offend, but are they part of the story or the drive behind the story? What is the intent of the story - if it's intended to offend, then you're more likely to ruffle feathers. As long as characters like this are handled correctly (they get their comeuppance, learn the right way etc), then you should be in clear water.

Maybe post a sample ... ?

Quoted from Forgive Maybe post a sample ... ?

I think we have already had enough self-promotion here.

Offensive?  In today's world?  Are you kidding me?  And by whose standards?

The question you are really asking is, "Is this too offensive for me to put my name on?"

And the only person who can answer that is you.

The real answer to these sorts of questions is always the same -- "Trust your instincts, Luke."

Alex, breathe life into your script by having certain characters act different ways towards other races, sexes or gays/bisexuals/lesbians.

Let your imagination run free.  Give your character life.  If you don't like something, there's a good chance it will work.

You may accept what I stated, but your character might not.  

Don't ever feel threatened by "offensive".  Yes, it will be offensive, but it's a story.  In fact, it helps develop a story if you add offensive tones.  This leads to character development that allows a certain character to see the error of his/her ways.

Take American History X for example.  A brilliant film that deals with racism.  In the beginning the main dude (I forget his name) is a neo-nazi racist.  

Then he goes to prison, meets an African-American and they become friends.  When he gets out he redeems himself and tries to teach his brother the same thing.  

This leads to the neo-nazi group turning on the main character, which makes the main character knock out the neo-nazi leader.

Stuff happens, the main dude and his brother are out of the life.  But their past catches up to them when 3 African-Americans kill the brother in the bathroom at school.

It's character development.  That is what makes, and breaks a script.

Make a character of yours offensive.  Make another character oppose the offensive character.  There you have your protagonist and antagonist.

There's an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm about Larry wanting to date a covered girl, so that no one sees her before him or something - don't remember it very well, but I know for a fact that that one was not offensive to Muslims at all.

I don't know about all Muslims though, like those who wear hijab - Muslims are different, depending on the region, but to the  ones living in Azerbaijan it's just a funny episode.

Send me your episode if you like.

If the writer creates a character that's racist, does that make the writer racist?  No, not at all.  I think it's more why the character is racist/offensive.

Quoted from bert Offensive?  In today's world?  Are you kidding me?  And by whose standards?

Bert - this is the question exactly, and the reason why he's posting the question.

Simple answer: Theo van Gogh.

People have completely different standards and perceptions and it's only right to take them into account.

Alex

As I am one of the few to have read your pilot, I find it funny and clever not offensive, even if it was... fuck them.

If you feel it's offensive... stop writing. just kidding. You're always gonna offend somebody in comedy.

Monty Python did it with the "life of Brian", Mel Brooks did it in "Blazing Saddles" South Park does it, family guy does it and they're all my favorite comedies of all time.

Or just for shits and giggles... my own parodies "the unlikely series" about Jesus, set in recent times, or Will(Albinopenguin) "Bible bedtime stories" did we care that we offend certain people? No.. we wrote them for ourselves and those who them funny enjoyed, but sadly you're always gonna find the one or two who use it for their own beliefs.

Don't change a thing.

and on a last note... i just watched a documentary on Mel Brooks 2 nights ago... and on Blazing Saddles he asked, if punching the old lady was over the top offensive and the producer responded with " when you're at the top, you might as well ring the bell"

Mark

Thanks Guys for all your comments, really appreciated.

I do like the concept of my screenplay though I am now considering some major changes to it anyway.

I have had a couple of producers keen and they have mentioned that a one hour Comedy Sitcom is a hard sell to the networks and to either change it to a 30 minute Sitcom or to a feature as the market is much easier.

I am considering both options and undecided on which way I will go ATM.

Back to the topic, with the movie released in the US last Year and the producer, director and everyone going into hiding and fearing for their lives, I am seriously considering dropping the Muslim side.

Considering the screenplay is Aussie and it will probably get produced in Melbourne or Sydney where there are many Italians and Greeks I am seriously considering this change in the rewrite ?????

Thanks to Steve and Mark for their comments as they have both done a read, though the difference is, it will be me putting my name to it, so hopefully you will understand me being cautious.

To others, thanks for your comments and I have read and considered them all.

I will let you all know what I decide and which way I go.

Regards Alex

Quoted Text There's an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm about Larry wanting to date a covered girl, so that no one sees her before him or something - don't remember it very well, but I know for a fact that that one was not offensive to Muslims at all.

One of my favorite episodes! Larry tries to hook his shallow blind friend up with a woman... the blind guy thinks it's unfair that everyone else gets to see her, but he can't. So Larry meets a single Muslim lady with a covered face - the perfect arrangement.

Actually, Curb is a great show to use as a barometer with what you can and cannot get away with - the show tiptoes that line of offensive, race driven material - Muslims, Jews (Hasidics), gays, African Americans, people in wheelchairs and mentally challenged people.

I think the key is to show some heart behind it... while one of your characters may be offensive towards other groups of people, give that character some redeeming character traits.

I'd hate to use this as an example because I felt it was pretty lame, but in the waaayyy over rated film Crash (the one about racism, not the good one that Cronenberg directed) but the Matt Dillon character is a racist cop, then he saves the same African American woman who he was racist towards.

Other characters in TV that have been offensive, but we kind of like - Kenny Powers (East Bound & Down), Archie Bunker (All in the Family) and Al Bundy (Married With Children - although he offended mostly obese people).

There are no boundaries in comedy with what you can and cannot joke about - it's about how you execute it and present it that determines whether it's offensive or not.

It all depends on what kind of audience you're looking for, too, and what networks you would plan on pitching it, too. If it were HBO or Comedy Central or something, you'd probably be able to get away with more.

-- Michael

Thanks Michael,

I know where you are coming from and my character is very similar to Archie Bunker.

Always got a laugh from this one and it is done well:-

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjhzhK2zryg

They just don't make comedies like this anymore !!!

Regards Alex

heh... I just write what I write as long as it comes from an organic place... a creative place...then I really don't care if it offends someone.

its my purgative.

Here's the thing. You can have extremely offensive characters and get away with it if you make the joke be on the racist person and not on the race.

Let's say the grandpa makes some racist joke about "towelheads." If you set it up to be funny because of how ridiculous the grandfather is and how people like that should be laughed at, you'll be okay.

Now, if you set it up for the audience to agree with grandpa, then you're going to offend some people.

On the Office, Michael Scott (or David Brent in the British version) were always making racist jokes (see, e.g., the Office's "Diversity Day" episode), but the character was so clueless about his remarks that he didn't even realize he was being racist.  I think most people got that--same with Archie Bunker on "All in the Family."  The joke has to revolve around not only the character saying it, but because it's a part of their DNA.

You can't just throw a racial joke out there in a vacuum.  It needs to make a point about the character saying it and not about the person that's the brunt of the humor.

Gary

You could always have the character make up their own derogatory terms and none of the other characters ever know which group is being referred to.

"The who?"
"You know, the gopher kissers. The one's that live around the corner from Bill's daughter."

I once read a quote that claimed that if your comedy isn't offending someone, then you're doing something wrong. Not sure if I agree with that completely, but some of my favourite comedies, whether or not they are TV of film, have featured characters and situations which some people will definitely find offensive.

But these films and shows get away with it, because they're not being offensive for the sake of it, instead the offensiveness is featured for a reason, whether or not that is to reveal character, make a point, etc.

Gary makes a brilliant point:

Quoted from Gary in Houston You can't just throw a racial joke out there in a vacuum.  It needs to make a point about the character saying it and not about the person that's the brunt of the humor.

My thoughts exactly, and David Brent from The Office was the exact example I was going to use.

Yes, brilliant.

Regarding the quote, "if your comedy isn't offending someone, then you're doing something wrong," I unfortunately have to agree... but not for the obvious reason.

I don't think comedians should set out to offend, they should set out to make people laugh. The fact of the matter is, the world is hyper-sensitive to everything these days and you can't fart without a group of protesters following the cloud. That's what sucks and that's what makes the quote true. If you make a racial (not racist) joke where the butt of the joke is the racist and not the race, there will still be people offended by it.

So if your jokes offend no one, you're probably not going get any laughs either.

Honestly, man, it's hard to tell whether your screenplay is offensive or not. The only way to tell for sure would be to read it. From what little you've given us, it seems like it wouldn't be but having not read it, it could be totally backwards and ignorant for all I know. That said, I think you should use your own judgment and not worry what others think. I think a lot of the time, the people who get offended go looking for what offends them and more often than not, they'll find it, even if it's not there at all. You won't be able to stop that no matter what the presentation is unless, in this case, you take the prospective offended party off the table completely.