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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    General Boards    Questions or Comments  ›  Film School...  Is it worth my time?
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  Author    Film School...  Is it worth my time?  (currently 4566 views)
Leegion
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 12:09pm Report to Moderator
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I'm going to start with a short.  It's part of my Zombie-Verse, known as "Days Gone".  Primary cast of 2 characters with about six-to-ten zombies.

Living in Aldershot provides me with downtrodden buildings owned by the military.  And the MILITARY.  Since this is the "home" of the British Army, I'm sure they won't mind lending me one of their trucks for an exterior shot to show things have gone to hell.

There's a car scrapyard a few minutes away, so getting destroyed/burnt out vehicles won't be a problem for that exterior shot.  A costume shop in town will provide fake blood. A dump down the road will afford me cheap furniture for the interior of the building, like a crappy couch and broken bookshelves.

I'm now on LinkedIn.  I'll put an ad up on Facebook for "looking for extras for short movie production", see where I get with that.

I'm planning on starting in November/December.  The cold may provide more depth.

Guess I'm jumping into the shark pool head first...
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DustinBowcot
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 1:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bert


Start with short films.  That is essential "schooling" right there.


Exactly what I'm doing. Making shorts with no money. Well, almost no money. The idea is to show what we can do on such minimal budgets and then attempt to win at the festivals.


Quoted Text
Only a fool attempts a feature-length as their first project.


Yep, I'd call that tantamount to suicide unless you have lots of talented people to carry you through.


Quoted Text
Same goes for these boards.  If you are approached by a "producer" who wants to make your feature as their first project, generally speaking, your response should be "no thanks."  Unless they are crazy rich or something, of course.


Had my fair share of those guys. As a newb it's easy to take it at face value, look no deeper... but usually these guys are looking for a miracle and they hope you are it. That great script that will attract funding. I've had second and third time producers struggling to get funds.

So, that shows how difficult it is out there to gain funding... but, if you're a bright person, with a bright idea, and you can get people to believe in that idea with you, you're half way there.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 1:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Leegion
I'm going to start with a short.  It's part of my Zombie-Verse, known as "Days Gone".  Primary cast of 2 characters with about six-to-ten zombies.

Living in Aldershot provides me with downtrodden buildings owned by the military.  And the MILITARY.  Since this is the "home" of the British Army, I'm sure they won't mind lending me one of their trucks for an exterior shot to show things have gone to hell.

There's a car scrapyard a few minutes away, so getting destroyed/burnt out vehicles won't be a problem for that exterior shot.  A costume shop in town will provide fake blood. A dump down the road will afford me cheap furniture for the interior of the building, like a crappy couch and broken bookshelves.

I'm now on LinkedIn.  I'll put an ad up on Facebook for "looking for extras for short movie production", see where I get with that.

I'm planning on starting in November/December.  The cold may provide more depth.

Guess I'm jumping into the shark pool head first...


I use http://www.starnow.co.uk/ to find my cast... you can advertise, but don't wait around for people to come to you. Headhunt them. Watch showreels. Make sure you cast the right people.

The most important thing will be crew. You need somebody to handle sound. A professional, or amateur with decent experience. I found it the hardest to find a sound guy that didn't want to charge the earth.

Cameramen. You only need one for a short. An experienced director. I wouldn't recommend Directing your first film. Set yourself up as AD, assistant director. Your DoP could be the cameraman if he's good enough.

There's quite a bit to consider. It's not as simple as point and shoot.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 1:40pm Report to Moderator
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Also mate, one last bit of advice. Don't pay for anything.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 2:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot

Had my fair share of those guys. As a newb it's easy to take it at face value, look no deeper... but usually these guys are looking for a miracle and they hope you are it. That great script that will attract funding. I've had second and third time producers struggling to get funds.

So, that shows how difficult it is out there to gain funding... but, if you're a bright person, with a bright idea, and you can get people to believe in that idea with you, you're half way there.


Sadly, this is very true. I don't even know how many people I've seen just here at SS get so excited about their films getting optioned and talent attached and so on. Then it all hinges on the funding and nothing more happens. I've seen people pour years of their lives into trying to get their features made.

Some day, I'll try one. I've got an idea in the back of my head. Suwannee River...Cedar Key...a houseboat...a married couple...something dark...     

Unbelievable to me, the actors that were in TTD all want to be in my next one, so I guess the experience can't have been too horrible.


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DustinBowcot
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 3:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear

Unbelievable to me, the actors that were in TTD all want to be in my next one, so I guess the experience can't have been too horrible.


Yeah same thing here, with cast and crew, and we are using two of the cast, although one in an assistant director capacity, in our next production. We didn't pay anyone anything, aside from make-up and locations, but even for the nightclub all we had to do was pay one bar staff member's wages for the day. The club itself was free.

If I'm putting in my time for free, then so can everyone else (in terms of cast and crew). If they don't believe in the project then so be it... their loss.

Just through starting to make films I've made some decent contacts. People are interested in people that are doing stuff. It's not about money, because I haven't actually got any (relatively speaking)... all I have is a vision. Smackhead, I've written specifically to win festivals. Because winners are what investors are interested in. Don't go in half arsed. If we don't win, I'll learn the reasons why not and make sure I win next time... or make enough waves so that people see what we can do, that we're not playing around.

What I would also recommend to Lee is to make sure you have somebody impartial read your scripts... or maybe just list them here for reads before plunging right in and making them. If I'd have made the first version of smackhead I was walking into cliché hell. An email gave me some excellent insight and despite kicking and screaming at first, I acknowledged they had a point and wrote a script a thousand times better. It all starts from a great script.

Your writing will also learn a valuable lesson along the way. You will learn to not only write to a budget, but to within the constraints of what you have available. A cabin in the woods isn't so easy if you can't actually get a cabin in the woods.
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Andrew
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 3:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Also mate, one last bit of advice. Don't pay for anything.


Apart from a sound bod. Next to impossible to get a free sound bod who knows what they're doing.



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Andrew
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 3:54pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot

It's not about money


When you're making shorts.

It's absolutely about money when you're trying to make features. You can get away with a low budget short if you limit locations, and keep it 'small', but if you try and shoot a feature on next to nothing, the production value will be awful, and that is going to kill your film for many, because your set will look like shit, it'll be poorly lit, etc. Low budget can, of course, be done, but if you look at some of the stuff churned out in the 70k-200k bracket here in the UK, the vast majority looks like crap. It certainly doesn't help when the script doesn't correlate to the budget.


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Grandma Bear
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 3:55pm Report to Moderator
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Location can be a lot trickier than it first appear. I learned a LOT with TTD. First lesson learned there was, don't plan of filming at the beach (that goes for woods too) at night unless you have access to huge stadium type lights.  Otherwise, the backgrounds will just disappear...second lesson. Don't shoot at National Monuments.


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DustinBowcot
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 4:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Andrew


Apart from a sound bod. Next to impossible to get a free sound bod who knows what they're doing.



We did it. But you're right, next to impossible, and you have to pay a pretty penny. One guy offered us £500 for the two day shoot just as a recorder and he would do all the mixing as a special offer, he originally offered £800... but we hit gold in the guy we got, already experienced having made several, very low budget features. Truly worth his weight in gold, shit hot editor as well. He is a walking film school, come to think of it. And all for free. We're giving him co-producer credit... he probably deserves more.


Quoted from Andrew


When you're making shorts.

It's absolutely about money when you're trying to make features. You can get away with a low budget short if you limit locations, and keep it 'small', but if you try and shoot a feature on next to nothing, the production value will be awful, and that is going to kill your film for many, because your set will look like shit, it'll be poorly lit, etc. Low budget can, of course, be done, but if you look at some of the stuff churned out in the 70k-200k bracket here in the UK, the vast majority looks like crap. It certainly doesn't help when the script doesn't correlate to the budget.


Features have to be done properly. There's just too much involved not to. I'm making shorts as a showcase to appeal for funding on features. I'm trying to spend as little as possible to show that we can manage finances and concentrate on the bottom line. I agree with you though, features need money.

I've watched some great films (British) in that sort of bracket, and I can write to within that budget, but I agree the script must correlate with the budget.


Quoted from Grandma Bear
Location can be a lot trickier than it first appear. I learned a LOT with TTD. First lesson learned there was, don't plan of filming at the beach (that goes for woods too) at night unless you have access to huge stadium type lights.  Otherwise, the backgrounds will just disappear...second lesson. Don't shoot at National Monuments.


We do have some of those. Actual floor lights from a theatre. 1000W each. Lighting is something we aren't short of. That's why it's imperative to build teams. The more heads thinking about the story, the filming, the camerawork, the lighting, the better. It's too hard to think of everything yourself.
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Leegion
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 4:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


I use http://www.starnow.co.uk/ to find my cast... you can advertise, but don't wait around for people to come to you. Headhunt them. Watch showreels. Make sure you cast the right people.

The most important thing will be crew. You need somebody to handle sound. A professional, or amateur with decent experience. I found it the hardest to find a sound guy that didn't want to charge the earth.

Cameramen. You only need one for a short. An experienced director. I wouldn't recommend Directing your first film. Set yourself up as AD, assistant director. Your DoP could be the cameraman if he's good enough.

There's quite a bit to consider. It's not as simple as point and shoot.


Just signed up.  That's step 2 of 7 complete.  Thanks for the link.
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Andrew
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 4:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Leegion


Just signed up.  That's step 2 of 7 complete.  Thanks for the link.


Add Casting Call Pro for that. We cast from there in a short we made a few weeks ago. Agreed with Justin that you're best to be proactive and search out actors.


Quoted from Dustin
One guy offered us £500 for the two day shoot


He's having a laugh with that. £250 a day? £100-150 a day is acceptable if you're getting someone you know will do you a job. If you're getting them for free, then obviously all the better. The big issue, I've found, from not paying crew is that you put yourself at the mercy of losing them at short notice if they get offers of paid work. To circumvent that, it's good to tie in equipment as well, because then you are in effect paying them, and don't put yourself at such a risk. People will be enthused about your script, but being freelance, they're also their own business, so practicalties come into it.


Quoted from Dustin
Features have to be done properly. There's just too much involved not to. I'm making shorts as a showcase to appeal for funding on features. I'm trying to spend as little as possible to show that we can manage finances and concentrate on the bottom line. I agree with you though, features need money.

I've watched some great films (British) in that sort of bracket, and I can write to within that budget, but I agree the script must correlate with the budget.


In the exact same position. I'm very happy with the short we've recently made (I co-wrote/produced) and I think it'll play well to festivals, but with a whole host of festivals, and the costs of submissions, in addition to getting it through post properly with quality grading, etc, it can be a drawn out process.

We've built up a decent database of festivals, dates for submissions, etc and obviously use Withoutabox, Reelport, etc, but it's only one prong of the strategy.

Good stuff can definitely be made in that range, but you find the same mistakes, it's too ambitious for what money they have. If you look at something like Shifty, Dead Man's Shoes, etc, they've played to their budgets well and kept the story front and centre, which some of the others who focus on slick production values only lose sight of. As a producer, you need to be all over that. Empowering the crew to get each element in place, but never losing sight of how the story plays out to potential audiences, what the potential publicity angles are, etc. Very, very difficult if you're not paying for publicists, don't have distro, etc.


Quoted from Duston
That's why it's imperative to build teams. The more heads thinking about the story, the filming, the camerawork, the lighting, the better.


This.

It's a collaborative medium. But again, with features, people need paying (always the major cost), and if you've got a 3, 4, 5 week shoot, you're gonna need a 3, 4, 5 week pre-prod to get everything in place, locations, costumes, props, etc etc.  And then you have post which'll be more like 8+ weeks if you're working to a timetable (as opposed to doing it while you can over a much larger timeframe) and then if you don't have distro, you got to sell the thing!

It hurts my brain just thinking about it. I've just been doing some work on a film with a 5mil budget and it's a stretch to attain that mass market appeal that they want.

All that said, the guy who is doing the low budget, high concept, high production value thing better than anyone right now is Jason Blum. There's a massive gap in the UK for the same thing.


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rendevous
Posted: August 30th, 2014, 9:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
Don't shoot at National Monuments.


I'm presuming you mean with a camera.

What happens if you do?

R


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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Busy Little Bee
Posted: November 1st, 2014, 9:53am Report to Moderator
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Whether school or group such as this, I'd say network to the best of your ability. Also, there's always room for improvement. I'm sure you're not completely satisfied with every aspect of your works. I believe, writing is a collaboration between you and others, audience, crew, cast... Always room for improvement. That's what professionals do. They hone their skills, and they return to basics. It's a perishable skill. If you do attend, know what you're going for and decide where you want to be once you've completed, give it a value, how many contacts did I make, how many films did I work on, and so on. Anyway, good luck, bro.

BLB



Commodus: But the Emperor Claudius knew that they were up to something. He knew they were busy little bees. And one night he sat down with one of them and he looked at her and he said, "Tell me what you have been doing, busy little bee..."
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dead by dawn
Posted: November 2nd, 2014, 1:42am Report to Moderator
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Hey Lee, I'm not going to tell you what to do, whether you should go to film school or not, etc.  A lot of people have already given you good advice.  I haven't directed a film, feature or short, so I have no clue how it works and what specific shit I would need.  However, for a while now I have been toying with the idea of making one of my scripts, but after some thinking, I feel re-writing it to a restrained budget would be doing the story a huge injustice and it deserves more than that, period, pure and simple.

There's a quote in Adaptation that made me pause the movie immediately and write it down.  I already knew it, but I guess it was the coldness that it was said in that really cemented it in my brain.  If you write a screenplay without conflict or crisis, you'll bore your audience to tears.  Of course, there are other components to be spoken of, but most importantly, do not ever, ever bore your audience.  That's the only thing I'll tell you to do.  Do that every time and one day you'll get somewhere.

Also, you don't need to have a big vocabulary of words to write scripts.  Screenplays aren't meant to have perfect grammar and overlong, overwritten descriptions to show us how smart and vast your lexicon of vocab is.  They're about saying as much as possible in as few words as possible.  Now of course that doesn't mean you have to be bland about it.  Take for instance one of the OWCs, "Da Horns."  There's a part where the writer could have been very robotic with a description and said "They run through the woods" but instead went with:  "They hurry through the hollow.  Bare branches reach down, scratch at Jacob. They don't touch Miriella. It's as if the forest wants to lay claim on a fresh soul."  Maybe it could flow a little bit better, but it has style and it doesn't sound robotic.

And, well, maybe there is one other thing I will tell you to do.  Watch as many movies as you can.  Take mental notes of what works and what doesn't - write it down if you have to.  Read as many scripts as you can, amateur and pro, and do the same thing - take notes.  Definitely read pro, because you'll notice the difference between the men and the boys.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think every single script written by a pro needs worshipping but I have opened a shit ton more pro scripts than amateur and, holy shit, the difference is amazing.  So read as much as possible, watch as much movies as possible, and take down those notes.  Otherwise, you won't know what the fuck the components are that make a great film.  You'll just end up writing nonsense.

In closing, Lee, I have read some of your stuff.  I have likes and dislikes.  You're not bad, or terrible, or shitty.  You have a bunch of ideas that have potential to be great.  You crank 'em out like it's nobody's business.  You'll get where you want to be one day.  Do what you gotta do and do what you want to do (but remember, don't bore us!).  Keep your chin up and keep at it.

See you at the Oscars one day, bud.
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