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  Author    My month of research  (currently 5878 views)
eldave1
Posted: December 12th, 2015, 11:55am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CJ Walley


There's effectively two Blacklists and it gets very confusion.

Franklin Leonard originally set up a thing called the BlackList where executives like himself would all vote for their favourite scripts which hadn't found a buyer and thus weren't in production. This got a lot of acclaim early on as people thought it was the reason certain major scripts got picked up. For example Social Network was featured on there before it came out. Since then it's come about that many of the scripts listed actually already have producers attached and has worked exceptionally well as a PR vehicle that appears to be giving underdogs a chance. Plus, obviously one doesn't have to think too deeply into how a clique of friends are all going to vote.

Franklin then formed a small team that created the BlackList paid evaluation service, promoted as a way of again finding the best scripts out there that had yet to be discovered. It also turned out to be a way to make a lot of money and become highly influential.This was originally opened up to amateurs and later opened up at a discounted rate to WGA members. It also runs a few diversity competitions within its listings.

This has made Franklin one of the most powerful people in the industry right now. Personally I think that's a very bad thing.


Exactly. Causality the the key here. You can take anyone of the successful scripts that have been linked to the Blacklist and see that their journey to success really had nothing to do with being on the original blacklist or on the subscription Blacklist site.

My NFL friends will understand this - every year, experts put together lists of the top college football players - many of these players will ultimately be drafted by pro teams. The fact they get drafted will have nothing to do with the fact they were on the expert lists and everything to do with all the other things they did (workouts, tape submittals, game films, hiring agents, etc) to get drafted. The fact that they were on someone's list was coincidental.

What I would like to see is a specific list of scripts that had success specifically and directly related to paying for the Blacklist service.





My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: December 12th, 2015, 4:13pm Report to Moderator
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I've not used The Blacklist as yet, so I have no vested interest BUT... I think it sometimes gets an unduly rough ride...

Yes, Franklin Leonard and the site have become quite powerful, but I'm not sure that this is a bad thing as at least it's an open way in and people without connections do get noticed and optioned or represented.

E.g. http://filmschoolrejects.com/o.....ess-than-a-month.php

I believe there's also four or five films now produced that were found on the site, Nightingale, Eddie the Eagle spring to mind.

Now of course examples like this are still rare and represent a really small % compared to the number of scripts hosted on the site... but getting your script produced by ANY method is statistically a long shot, lottery odds type of long shot... yet we're all still hoping, right?

What seems to irk most writers is the readers and their ratings, from reading on here and elsewhere I think there's probably a combination of some bad readers and reviewers, some writers with unrealistic views of their own work, and an unrealistic expectation of the site itself. For the first, complain to the site if you have legitimate concerns, they often (apparently) will have a different reader look at the script, for the second - put it on here first and get some free feedback, see if it agrees... for the third, well we're all hoping one of these resource will pan out, maybe the next one will.

So I think Blklst is one option to try, one of very few that can point to a handful of successes, but it won't suit everyone... they acknowledge that themselves.

And if you want to see Franklin Leonard respond to some of these issues, here's the AMA he did on the screenwriting reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/3h5dj7/the_black_list_ask_founder_franklin_leonard/

Anthony


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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eldave1
Posted: December 12th, 2015, 6:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
I've not used The Blacklist as yet, so I have no vested interest BUT... I think it sometimes gets an unduly rough ride...

Yes, Franklin Leonard and the site have become quite powerful, but I'm not sure that this is a bad thing as at least it's an open way in and people without connections do get noticed and optioned or represented.

E.g. http://filmschoolrejects.com/o.....ess-than-a-month.php

I believe there's also four or five films now produced that were found on the site, Nightingale, Eddie the Eagle spring to mind.

Now of course examples like this are still rare and represent a really small % compared to the number of scripts hosted on the site... but getting your script produced by ANY method is statistically a long shot, lottery odds type of long shot... yet we're all still hoping, right?

What seems to irk most writers is the readers and their ratings, from reading on here and elsewhere I think there's probably a combination of some bad readers and reviewers, some writers with unrealistic views of their own work, and an unrealistic expectation of the site itself. For the first, complain to the site if you have legitimate concerns, they often (apparently) will have a different reader look at the script, for the second - put it on here first and get some free feedback, see if it agrees... for the third, well we're all hoping one of these resource will pan out, maybe the next one will.

So I think Blklst is one option to try, one of very few that can point to a handful of successes, but it won't suit everyone... they acknowledge that themselves.

And if you want to see Franklin Leonard respond to some of these issues, here's the AMA he did on the screenwriting reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/3h5dj7/the_black_list_ask_founder_franklin_leonard/

Anthony


Hey Anthony:

Everything I have read about Franklin leads me to believe that he is a decent guy. But the issue really is whether or not the Blacklist site is an effective tool for exposure.

I entered the The Last Statesman in the 2010 Nicholls Contest and made the quarter finals. I got five legitimate requests for the script - didn't sell it - but I viewed that is a success and even if success is a remote possibility will continue to enter scripts there since I at least know that success will result in some outcome.

This month, I have gotten three legitimate requests for the Beginning of The End and The End from querying firms I found by myself on IMDB. A better success rate than using the blast services. So, I will continue to do that. As a note, I do think that being able to add other contest results (PAGE, ZEOTROPE) for this script in my query greased the wheels a little bit so I think there is value there as well.

Yes - they are all long shots. But in my experience - the Black List is the least economical and successful of the long shots. In addition, it is structured as a bit of a money pit since ostensibly you have to chase reviews at a relatively high cost in order to get the ratings required for notice. Contests are one and done.

I absolutely agree with you in that all of these are long shots. But in our cases, they may be the only shots available.

My new problem is this - how much time and effort do I devote to writing versus time and effort trying to sell my writing???? This month has been consumed by the latter (haven't written anything in awhile) and the business end of this craft is a tedious and soul devouring endeavor. Ah - the arts

      



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: December 12th, 2015, 7:50pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Dave

Congrats on the read requests Dave, really hope they pan out.

And agree re the effort needed to sell, a necessary and time consuming evil ;-(

Anthony


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: December 13th, 2015, 7:12am Report to Moderator
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Hey CJ - we've all got opinions, and as always I respect yours, but disagree on this occasion.

Anthony


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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MarkRenshaw
Posted: December 14th, 2015, 4:24am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1

My new problem is this - how much time and effort do I devote to writing versus time and effort trying to sell my writing???? This month has been consumed by the latter (haven't written anything in awhile) and the business end of this craft is a tedious and soul devouring endeavor. Ah - the arts


THIS!!

My writing time is very limited, it’s very frustrating sometimes. So then when I do decide to try and promote some stuff I’ve written, I’m faced with a myriad of options which are all beset by potential booby traps and paths with dead ends. Plus they usually require me to invest some money as well as time which I’d rather spend writing; it’s a long, arduous, painful journey.

As for the Black List. The last thing I sent them, a feature, the guy downloaded the script (you get a notification email when they do) and posted his review 2 hours later. He missed so much it was obvious to me it was a scan read; someone rushing through to get as many script reviews done as possible.  

I complained about the turnaround time but got a response saying 2 hours was adequate time to review a script. I wouldn’t mind if someone was doing me a favour and reviewing for free but for $50 this seemed unacceptable. If you’ve never used this service, by all means give it a whirl but I certainly won’t be doing so again.  


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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eldave1
Posted: December 14th, 2015, 1:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MarkRenshaw


THIS!!

My writing time is very limited, it’s very frustrating sometimes. So then when I do decide to try and promote some stuff I’ve written, I’m faced with a myriad of options which are all beset by potential booby traps and paths with dead ends. Plus they usually require me to invest some money as well as time which I’d rather spend writing; it’s a long, arduous, painful journey.


Yep. It has also taught me a hard lesson. All my life I thought I wanted to be a writer but didn't start really writing until my mid fifties. What I learned is that I loved writing. But, not so sure I enjoy being a writer if that journey  entails all the crap you have to go through to sell something.

That is what makes the "services" so compelling as they are marketed as the magic bullets to allow someone or something else to take care of the business end of this craft. Sadly, it is smoke and mirrors for the most part.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
Posted: December 14th, 2015, 2:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CJ Walley
I've said it before and I'll say it again, when it comes to most script promotion services, we may aswell be better off burning a pile of money in the hope a producer spots the smoke plume.


This gave me a laugh - thanks.

Yes - the services can be closely akin to the "How to Make Millions in the Stock Market" gurus. If they really knew the secret - you would be the last one they told as they would be off making millions of dollars in the stock market.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Equinox
Posted: December 14th, 2015, 2:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from LC

I'm interested to know why you hated it. What was your experience? I think CJ spoke of it disparagingly too, or maybe that was Thorsten?



Hey, I don't think I spoke about it much here, but my experiences with my Blacklist-Test were mixed. One of my pilot scripts got an initial 7 with notes basically saying it's going to be the next big thing and A-list actors would kill themselves to get a role in it. An hour after that, I got a "Pro Review" of 5/10 - so my average of two ratings was 6.0 and I made it to the bottom end of the Top-List for my genre (the cap was 5.97).

I was happy with that and decided to upload a second pilot script. It got a 6/10 review from them and one hour later a "Pro Rating" of 5/10 - see the pattern here?

Now that second script averaged 5.5 - and due to their rating procedure, that second script also influenced the rating of the first script which now averaged 5.87 and was out of the top-list again.

Obviously I bought a second evaluation for the first script - guess what? It got a 4/10, while the notes were more or less positive. Notes said it has strong lead characters - got a 4/10 in Characters. It said the scifi-plot was entertaining and they enjoyed the read - plot got 3/10. You get the point. The only negative comment was that the script was a derivation of "The X-Files" - Totally amazing, as it was a script where the main protagonist goes on a time travel to save the world from destruction. Had absolutely nothing to do with X-Files - but okay. I wrote them a mail and asked how it is possible to get mostly positive feedback notes combined with ratings of 3/10 and 4/10. The answer was: The notes are not meant to justify the ratings. Does anybody understand that? How can the same person write the characters are great and rate characters 4/10?
The next thing that happened was that I got a mail from their support telling me my script was rated quite differently from two of their readers and they would offer me a third evaluation for half the price. Given an evaluation takes 3-4 weeks from ordering it until you receive your rating, I would have had to pay for another month of hosting to do so, so it would have been another 75$.

That was the point were I removed my auto renewal for hosting and took my scripts down. Seems like a total cash cow to me. Even when my script was on the toplist, I got 3 downloads and zero enquiries in like 4 weeks. And being on the top list means your script is ranked among the best 25-50 of all scripts from a month (or 3 months if you manage to stay on the list that long). So, even if you make it to their selection, there is as good as no gain from it. At least that was my experience.


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eldave1
Posted: December 14th, 2015, 9:20pm Report to Moderator
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I had a very similar experience on the ratings.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: December 15th, 2015, 3:56am Report to Moderator
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Wherever money is involved, there's a good chance you're being conned.

Salesman smiling at you? Punch him in the face. He's a crook.
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IamGlenn
Posted: December 15th, 2015, 5:00pm Report to Moderator
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:)

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The IMDB Pro approach has always confused me, and I haven't used it yet.

Is it just going on to pages of producers and pulling their info from there? Is it that easy or is there quite a bit of digging to do?


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AnthonyCawood
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It's just time consuming Glenn as it does require some digging around... and of course, once youve identified some producers you want to email... well then you've got the dreaded query letter to try and craft!

Anthony


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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IamGlenn
Posted: December 15th, 2015, 6:34pm Report to Moderator
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:)

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Quoted from AnthonyCawood
It's just time consuming Glenn as it does require some digging around... and of course, once youve identified some producers you want to email... well then you've got the dreaded query letter to try and craft!

Anthony


Yeah, I really struggle writing queries. Also, I don't mind spending a bit of time digging if I get some useful info from it. Suppose I should get the trial and check it all out.

As for Stage 32, I'm on there and used it quite a bite a while back. Haven't checked it out in a while. Seems like a good place to make a few connections. Even got a gig out of it, but the guy was a complete wack ball!


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eldave1
Posted: December 15th, 2015, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from IamGlenn
The IMDB Pro approach has always confused me, and I haven't used it yet.

Is it just going on to pages of producers and pulling their info from there? Is it that easy or is there quite a bit of digging to do?


It is a data base that theoretically has everything entertainment. It has broad based search features:

1. Search By Title, People, Company etc. (just hit the company tab.
2. Once you are on the company page - you can filter the results by type (i.e., Agency, Production, Management), by location (city) and by where they rank on the company meter (i.e., user interest) list.

Then you just start clicking companies -   when you click one you will information on their staff, clients. films, etc along with whether or not they have a web-site or a contact (email) address.

So, when I used this I started small. Goal - to find 20 agencies or production companies in the Los Angeles area to query. Using the search parameters above helped narrow the list and then I checked out the web-sites to see which ones appeared to fit based on what they produced and whether or not they were query friendly (or at least didn't have a harsh don't send anything). As I found them - I added the information to my own Excel spreadsheet list (i.s., so I eventually won't need IMDB).

So, grab the free trial - sent a small goal of 20 and whack out a list to send your queries to. It doesn't take as long as you would think.

PS - don't waste your time with the real big boys (e.g., SONY, MGM, etc.)


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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