Hypothetically...  

No educated idea.

Does this WGA guideline help?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/lx6g3z/wga_provides_data_on_writer_pay/

These are Pro level I assume, or maybe it makes no difference.

I do know Hubby was paid (in installments) over $5,000 U.S. for writing on assignment for some Indian Producers a few years ago. He only got up to the second installment though cause there were too many cooks in the kitchen on that particular project, but it was a nice ongoing paid assignment for a while. Oh, and this was about six years ago.

Do you have an offer, Warren?
If you do, make sure you have it legally set out and agreed to, per each assignment. Not that you wouldn't. Just saying cover your arse in case of all situations - change of mind etc.

P.S. Ant knows lots of stuff about this, cause I seem to remember he's done it.
Middle of the night in the UK.

Quoted from LC Hypothetically...   No educated idea. Does this WGA guideline help? https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/lx6g3z/wga_provides_data_on_writer_pay/ These are Pro level I assume, or maybe it makes no difference. I do know Hubby was paid (in installments) over $5,000 U.S. for writing on assignment for some Indian Producers a few years ago. He only got up to the second installment though cause there were too many cooks in the kitchen on that particular project, but it was a nice ongoing paid assignment for a while. Oh, and this was about six years ago. Do you have an offer, Warren? If you do, make sure you have it legally set out and agreed to, per each assignment. Not that you wouldn't. Just saying cover your arse in case of all situations - change of mind etc. P.S. Ant knows lots of stuff about this, cause I seem to remember he's done it. Middle of the night in the UK.

Okay, so the article says $150 000 for a first draft and one rewrite as a newbie, seems about right  

I don't have an offer, I have a request to let them know what my expectations are.

Whatever the figure is, I would work on a half up front, half at completion deal.

My initial post over simplifies what's actually involved, but that's the bulk of the work.

Novel adaptation. That'd be a good job imho, cause it's all there.

Don't underestimate your value.
Your expectations are to be paid the going rate I'd say.

I'd be asking these (Producers) what their budget is, what their specific plans are, their existing credits -  put the ball back in their court a bit.

Quoted from LC Novel adaptation. That'd be a good job imho, cause it's all there. Don't underestimate your value. Your expectations are to be paid the going rate I'd say. I'd be asking these (Producers) what their budget is, what their specific plans are, their existing credits -  put the ball back in their court a bit.

If the novel wasn't based on an extremely complex historical event   The novel also comes with a study guide and a further novel just on the history of the event, all of which need to be read prior to writing.

I've been chatting with this lot for about a year now, COVID threw a spanner in the works early on but it looks like they are ready to move forward. He really talks the talk and seems to have contacts in all the right places. Even though I have no actual skin in the game yet he has routinely kept me up to date with any developments and seems like a genuinely good guy who values my input.

There is no doubt that this would be a mammoth undertaking, so it would need to be financially viable for me, but I'm really not sure what the starting point is.

Quoted from Warren ... There is no doubt that this would be a mammoth undertaking, so it would need to be financially viable for me, but I'm really not sure what the starting point is.

Wow. Okay. No straightforward undertaking here then.
You would want to be compensated very well then. Considering it sounds like it'd take you out of the game for anything else for a good while too.

Personally, I'd have to be in love with the extremely complex historical event regardless of financial reward.

Good luck with it! It could put you on the map.

Quoted from Warren There is no doubt that this would be a mammoth undertaking, so it would need to be financially viable for me, but I'm really not sure what the starting point is.

Hi Warren,

I'd work out roughly how long it might take me, then allocate a rate taking into account my cost of living during the duration with (plucking a figure out of the air here) a 50% loading on top?

Coming from someone who knows nothing about these things, I'd work on $6000 a month for six months writing, plus 50% loading which comes to $54, 000.  And maybe also include an alternative offer to do it for $25 000 with something in the back end once released.

Or, maybe even $25 000 up front with the balance of 3% of the production budget paid on day one of principal photography?

Just some thoughts.

I think this depends totally on you. Will you be writing as a "job" where you have to work hours every day and try to make a living from this or would it be a fun thing with a little money attached? I'm guessing in your case it would be the latter. Adaptations are not that easy. I tried it once. The author said it was the best adaptation of his work to date, but looking back at it now, I know I did not do a great job. I didn't mind though, because I LOVED the book and read it several times. IMHO, it would be a horrible job if you don't love the book due to the immense time required.

If I were to do the job, I would try to figure out how much time this would take.

Reading the book twice and taking notes. Outlining. Writing it and then a couple of rewrites. Multiply with minimum wage. Look at that number and see what seems reasonable to you. Minimum wage x2? X3?

Btw, last year Dena was contacted by an author who asked her to adapt her book. Dena declined because she didn't like the material. She sent the author to me. I declined for the same reason, but I connected her with another friend of mine who I thought would like the material. She gave the author her rates and the author disappeared...

Good luck with this and keep us posted.

Agree with Pia. The biggest thing is if you are stoked about the material. If it’s something you’re just taking because there’s money involved, that’s all right. But be prepared for it to be a chore. If your hearts not into it, it becomes all the more difficult.

Then again, no one ever said we’re supposed to enjoy our work. A pay check is a pay check. But enjoying it makes it that much easier.

Quoted from WayneM Hi Warren, I'd work out roughly how long it might take me, then allocate a rate taking into account my cost of living during the duration with (plucking a figure out of the air here) a 50% loading on top? Coming from someone who knows nothing about these things, I'd work on $6000 a month for six months writing, plus 50% loading which comes to $54, 000.  And maybe also include an alternative offer to do it for $25 000 with something in the back end once released. Or, maybe even $25 000 up front with the balance of 3% of the production budget paid on day one of principal photography? Just some thoughts.

Thanks, Wayne.

As much as I like these numbers, they still seem really high for a nobody writer with no real credits.

I'm actually surprised at how high the recommendations are, definitely an eye opener.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I think this depends totally on you. Will you be writing as a "job" where you have to work hours every day and try to make a living from this or would it be a fun thing with a little money attached? I'm guessing in your case it would be the latter. Adaptations are not that easy. I tried it once. The author said it was the best adaptation of his work to date, but looking back at it now, I know I did not do a great job. I didn't mind though, because I LOVED the book and read it several times. IMHO, it would be a horrible job if you don't love the book due to the immense time required. If I were to do the job, I would try to figure out how much time this would take. Reading the book twice and taking notes. Outlining. Writing it and then a couple of rewrites. Multiply with minimum wage. Look at that number and see what seems reasonable to you. Minimum wage x2? X3? Btw, last year Dena was contacted by an author who asked her to adapt her book. Dena declined because she didn't like the material. She sent the author to me. I declined for the same reason, but I connected her with another friend of mine who I thought would like the material. She gave the author her rates and the author disappeared... Good luck with this and keep us posted.

I would say this is probably more like a job, not for the fact that I need the money, just considering the amount of 'work' involved. I think even if I thought this was the greatest book of all time I would still need to be compensated accordingly.

Your suggestion about minimum wage x whatever is what I'm currently thinking, in a sense. I have a number which I think is reasonable and was hoping the advice would be similar but it currently seems like I'm massively low balling or the numbers suggested are way too high.

Will keep you in the loop if this turns into anything.

Quoted from Warren I'm actually surprised at how high the recommendations are, definitely an eye opener.

You're right. Do it for the experience and $50 buckaroos.  

I was asked to adapt a book a couple years ago but when I pointed the gaps and inconsistencies, the author never got back to me. Serious big-holes too!

Quoted from SAC Agree with Pia. The biggest thing is if you are stoked about the material. If it’s something you’re just taking because there’s money involved, that’s all right. But be prepared for it to be a chore. If your hearts not into it, it becomes all the more difficult. Then again, no one ever said we’re supposed to enjoy our work. A pay check is a pay check. But enjoying it makes it that much easier.

The material is right up my alley from a historical standpoint and I do think I would enjoy doing the adaptation, but there is a lot of pressure when you start talking figures and deadlines.

Quoted from JEStaats You're right. Do it for the experience and $50 buckaroos.   I was asked to adapt a book a couple years ago but when I pointed the gaps and inconsistencies, the author never got back to me. Serious big-holes too!

Still a bit high in my opinion  

Quoted from Warren The material is right up my alley from a historical standpoint and I do think I would enjoy doing the adaptation, but there is a lot of pressure when you start talking figures and deadlines.

Yes, there is. A writer, a pro with several produced MOWs under his belt, told me this when I was bitching about deadlines:

Don’t look at it like you “have” to do this. Look at it like you “get” to do this.

Quoted from SAC Yes, there is. A writer, a pro with several produced MOWs under his belt, told me this when I was bitching about deadlines: Don’t look at it like you “have” to do this. Look at it like you “get” to do this.

That's great, I like it

Quoted from Warren That's great, I like it

Me too!

Hmm

WGA minimums are fine as a guide but they tend to get new writers excited and potentially set false expectations, you see it all over FB and reddit.

Fortunately we're all too sensible to be seduced by such numbers

I think a lot of this will come down to the Producers who've optioned the book, what experience and track record do they have, what budgets they've worked with previously, and what funds can they get access to this time.

If some, or any of the above, is known then it might help you work out where to pitch your quote.

You can potentially look at layering the quote some more too, e.g. A for commencement, B for outline, C for 1st draft, X for second draft, Y for subsequent polishes, Z for Production bonus... that sort of thing.

I'd also be careful with rights, as you don't own the underlying rights to the Novels in this case.

One way you could look at this is based on time $X per hour, or $X per page and work out what you'd be comfortable with.

The two other things I personally like to keep in mind are... I get paid nothing at all whilst I'm writing a spec script, and if I genuinely feel that the project is going to get made how valuable could the 'Written by' credit be on my CV.

Best of luck with it Warren.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Hmm WGA minimums are fine as a guide but they tend to get new writers excited and potentially set false expectations, you see it all over FB and reddit. Fortunately we're all too sensible to be seduced by such numbers I think a lot of this will come down to the Producers who've optioned the book, what experience and track record do they have, what budgets they've worked with previously, and what funds can they get access to this time. If some, or any of the above, is known then it might help you work out where to pitch your quote. You can potentially look at layering the quote some more too, e.g. A for commencement, B for outline, C for 1st draft, X for second draft, Y for subsequent polishes, Z for Production bonus... that sort of thing. I'd also be careful with rights, as you don't own the underlying rights to the Novels in this case. One way you could look at this is based on time $X per hour, or $X per page and work out what you'd be comfortable with. The two other things I personally like to keep in mind are... I get paid nothing at all whilst I'm writing a spec script, and if I genuinely feel that the project is going to get made how valuable could the 'Written by' credit be on my CV. Best of luck with it Warren.

Thanks for the advice, Anthony.

I do think I will end up going with a per hour system. I think I have it pretty much sorted.

Just need to send it off and see what they say.

Just an FYI, Warren, and you may have already determined what you would ask for, but the general rule of thumb is that the screenwriter is typically going to make about 1% of the overall budget of the film.  But there can be conditions attached to that; e.g., I signed a contract where I was going to be $28,000 on a film where the estimated budget was $2.8 MM, but it was conditional on the film getting funding (it never went anywhere, s0 I didn't get paid -- other than in valuable experience -- for a crapload of work).  You might ask for the estimated budget for the film and gauge that as your starting point.  Also, you might want a condition added that if the film doesn't get funded, you're still entitled to "X" amount.  So if the film's budget is $1 MM, you ask for $10K, and if the film doesn't get funded or made, you get 1/2 that amount.  Just a thought, and it's something I wish I had asked for on that film.

Gary

Quoted from Gary in Houston Just an FYI, Warren, and you may have already determined what you would ask for, but the general rule of thumb is that the screenwriter is typically going to make about 1% of the overall budget of the film.  But there can be conditions attached to that; e.g., I signed a contract where I was going to be $28,000 on a film where the estimated budget was $2.8 MM, but it was conditional on the film getting funding (it never went anywhere, s0 I didn't get paid -- other than in valuable experience -- for a crapload of work).  You might ask for the estimated budget for the film and gauge that as your starting point.  Also, you might want a condition added that if the film doesn't get funded, you're still entitled to "X" amount.  So if the film's budget is $1 MM, you ask for $10K, and if the film doesn't get funded or made, you get 1/2 that amount.  Just a thought, and it's something I wish I had asked for on that film. Gary

Thanks for the input, Gary.

I actually just sent over my terms which I think are very reasonable. I worked on a per hour system and have asked for half up front and half on completion.

Will see how it is received.




Thanks again everyone else. No more advice need on this thread

I don't want to jinx it but this really looks promising, it also looks like it's moving into a three-feature deal. Three unrelated stories. A novel adaptation, a play adaptation, and one of my own completed scripts.

This deal has been in the works for a long time, maybe a year or longer, nothing happens quick.

I sent my asking fee a few months ago, which has all but been agreed on. I couldn't be happier with the outcome, this is serious writing money in my opinion.

At the moment face to face (Zoom) meetings are being set up with the filmmaker and a separate one with the producers to discuss going forward.

Nothing is certain until the funds hit my account and I type FADE IN, but damn this has felt very legit and very professional all the way through. It has taken a long time to get to this point but communication has always been strong and excitement from their end has been constant throughout.

Will keep you all in the loop regardless of outcome, but I think I have something here... I hope I have something here.

Fingers crossed, I hope it pans out for you!

So, Warren...

You're adapting an existing novel to screenplay, adapting a separate Play to screenplay, and they are also Optioning or purchasing one of your screenplays? Which one, or you can't say?

Fingers and toes crossed here too.
You'll be busy for sure and raking it in. Wow!

Awesome news, Warren.

Exciting times ahead!

Quoted from ReneC Fingers crossed, I hope it pans out for you!

Thanks, Rene. So do I.

Quoted from LC So, Warren... You're adapting an existing novel to screenplay, adapting a separate Play to screenplay, and they are also Optioning or purchasing one of your screenplays? Which one, or you can't say? Fingers and toes crossed here too. You'll be busy for sure and raking it in. Wow!

Thanks, Libby.

Well I'm not doing any of it yet, but yes that is what is on the table.

The original screenplay is Shaka. it's what caused him to get in touch with me in the first place a year or so ago.

The filmmakers/producers are South African's living in South Africa. Shaka and the novel are both South African stories, so two scripts from my motherland. The play is a WW2 story, so it's quite an interesting mix and would keep me very busy for quite some time. If it happens I doubt I will have any time for my own ideas, but that's okay.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Awesome news, Warren. Exciting times ahead!

Thanks, I sure do hope so.

Great news Warren, fingers, toes, eyes, legs crossed for you!

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Great news Warren, fingers, toes, eyes, legs crossed for you!

Thanks, Anthony. Appreciate it.

Quoted from Warren I don't want to jinx it but this really looks promising, it also looks like it's moving into a three-feature deal. Three unrelated stories. A novel adaptation, a play adaptation, and one of my own completed scripts. This deal has been in the works for a long time, maybe a year or longer, nothing happens quick. I sent my asking fee a few months ago, which has all but been agreed on. I couldn't be happier with the outcome, this is serious writing money in my opinion. At the moment face to face (Zoom) meetings are being set up with the filmmaker and a separate one with the producers to discuss going forward. Nothing is certain until the funds hit my account and I type FADE IN, but damn this has felt very legit and very professional all the way through. It has taken a long time to get to this point but communication has always been strong and excitement from their end has been constant throughout. Will keep you all in the loop regardless of outcome, but I think I have something here... I hope I have something here.

Wow! Great news! This is terrific!

Congratulations, Dude! You've more than earned it!

Have them open the Kimono. Then you know where to start from. Oh, and congratulations on even the interest.

Thanks, all. Still more of a pipe dream than anything else but this week should be the tell if this is all going to materialize.

Well...

It's happening... kinda.

I have a meeting with the director today and the producers tomorrow. I now also know exactly who the producers are and having seen their credits and IMDb I feel there is no reason this shouldn't happen.

I guess it all comes down to the meetings over the next few days and if they think I'm right for the projects. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous as hell, but I'm hopping I can put that all aside and put my best foot forward.

You've got no reason to be nervous, Dude. Be confident. You're the right person for the job.

Quoted from Zack You've got no reason to be nervous, Dude. Be confident. You're the right person for the job.

Thanks, mate. Appreciate it.

Yep, you'll be fine, Warren.

Half the battle in life is faking it till you make it.
You've got the skills, just fake the bravado if you need to, which I doubt you need to do anyway.  

Thanks, Libby

Quoted from Warren Well... It's happening... kinda. I have a meeting with the director today and the producers tomorrow. I now also know exactly who the producers are and having seen their credits and IMDb I feel there is no reason this shouldn't happen. I guess it all comes down to the meetings over the next few days and if they think I'm right for the projects. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous as hell, but I'm hopping I can put that all aside and put my best foot forward.

Awesome to hear. As far as nerves.. just be yourself and honest. Interview them, rather than the other way around. You want to know, imo, if this opportunity is a right fit FOR YOU and what they're looking for. Especially in terms of the tone, structure of the scripts. Then watch Adaptation by Charlie Kaufman.

Lol

Meeting with the director done!

Super nice guy, extremely passionate and it feels like if it was up to him I'd be writing right now... unfortunately that's up to the producers who's meeting has been pushed till next Tuesday.

Whatever happens I can say with certainty that these guys are the real deal; they have the means, the know how, and the funds to make this happen. They own there own production company with several features in the bag, their latest being an award winner. They also have tangible links to a major streaming service.

I'm confident this will happen, the question is whether I'll be the one doing the writing.

Could barely sleep last night after the meeting, my heart and thoughts were racing, it was exhilarating.

Is there any way to prep for the meeting? Lol.

As everyone has reiterated, believe in yourself (even when in doubt), and whatever happens, don’t let this get you down since there’s plenty of other opportunities out there.

Good luck.

Gabe

Meeting with the director and producers done!

All super nice guys. Was a great experience and also quite strange at the same time. I watched three of their feature films over the weekend and one of the producers acts in all three so I almost felt like I knew him.

One of the films semi-recently won the SAFTA award for best film (think South African BAFTAS), so the highest honour.

There is a long and pretty uncertain road ahead, but things look positive.

I won't have much more to say about it for a while but things are happening in the background. I also won't have the time to contribute any writing to SS for quite a while but I'll always be stalking away, as I do.

Lots of work ahead...

Sounds exciting! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!