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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Comedy Scripts  ›  Coffee & Inspiration Moderators: bert
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Shelton
Posted: July 9th, 2006, 10:45pm Report to Moderator
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Tonka,

You pretty much nailed it.  There really is no story here.  The reason for that is that I wanted to see if I could write something that took place entirely in one location with a minimal amount of characters, and would be somewhat realistic and interesting.

I think I succeeded in doing that.  Obviously there's REALLY no plot here, but I'm a little shocked as to why you asked about characters.  You didn't think the characters were developed or interesting enough?

It wasn't an exercise in writing dialogue, but the gist of what I was trying to do was in my synopsis, which is meant to be an ultra low budget "short feature"


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"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin

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tonkatough
Posted: July 10th, 2006, 12:35am Report to Moderator
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My apology mike. I left out a word in my message so I was not questioning your characters. I was meant to write character arc inwhich goes hand in hand with plot.

I dunno, maybe I've read to many how to write a script books but the empthisis always seems to be creating a protaganist, throw lots of ordeals at them and see how much they change from the ordeal.  This seems to be the  basic element of a story. Even something as simple as a fairy tale has this with the hero living "happily ever after" after they've endured misery.

So it is interesting that you have chosen to write a story and left out this one crucial element. For me this script did not work. It didn't fully engage me.

Your characters are great and diverse and this is shown in the diffent flavours of dialouge you have writen.

I'm sorry if I shocked you, this was not my intention.  


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Shelton
Posted: July 10th, 2006, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for explaining the missed word, things make more sense now.

I definitely understand where you're coming from, and knew even prior to submitting it that it wouldn't be for everyone, but what script really is?

Even with the lack of "story", if you were able to appreciate the characters and dialogue, that's good enough for me.

When you say it didn't engage you, do you mean that you weren't able to finish it?  Just curious.  I'm assuming since you commented on Franklin, you made it about halfway anyway.  

Either way, I appreciate you taking the time to look at it.


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tonkatough
Posted: July 10th, 2006, 10:13pm Report to Moderator
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To answer your question what I meant by "not engage" me is that I did not care for the characters or the situation they where in. I was not emotionally invested with the characters.  But yes I did read through over two thirds of your script and I was impressed by your technical skills at writing a script and dialouge. So if you failed to entertain me with this script that doesn't matter because your script demonstrated that you a skilled script writer and makes me eager to read more of your works, hopefully with a plot.     


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Steve-Dave
Posted: July 15th, 2006, 8:20am Report to Moderator
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About halfway down on pg 5, you go right from Gabe and Barb's conversation right into Keith and  Val's. I think you should put something to separate them and go over to Keith and Val's booth.

pg 9- Gabe says, "I'm so busy with the book anymore". shouldn't now be in place of anymore?

I think the breakup would be more significant if Gabe overheard at least some of it, rather than just witnessing it. Because everyone who comes into the diner has some contact with Gabe, and everything revolves around Gabe, but in Keith and Val's conversation, it seems more removed from everything and doesn't really seem to fit.

I thought the comment about the italian guy being oily or something I thought was awesome.

Tony Montana was Cuban, not Italian.

Franklin getting stuck in the bathroom because he ran out of towelettes was f***ing hilarious. Pure genious.

near the bottom of 34, Del says, "I don't if that's his name".

Jack telling his stories for four hours seems a little far fetched. Maybe like a half hour or 45 minutes would be better, even an hour and a half or something would be better.

pg 57- jack says, "Why he doesn't come inside?"

In conclusion. I thought this was very good. Well written, moved quick, and was a simple situation that was entertaining from beginning to end. It also had some pretty funny lines, particularly from Jack. - "Yep, behind on his payments", "Gabe will just spill the coffee on himself", "come for the coffee, stay for the wrongful imprisonment", "for when you only want a shot of coffee", "endentured servant stripper". All great funny stuff.

My only problems were that Keith and Val's conversation should be tied in more with Gabe, as I described earlier. and I also was unsatisfied with the ending. I think Gabe should have like one more conversation with Barb or Cam or something, and/or address his book one more time, or write something in his notebook and leave, or just something like that, and not just end while they're about to have breakfast.

Anyways all and all, being a big fan of heavy dialogue and conversation based stuff,  I thought it was great. Aside from the above, But those are just my opinions, I could be wrong.

P.S. What other script is Jack in?


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Shelton
Posted: July 15th, 2006, 4:11pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for checking it out, and for catching a few things I hadn't noticed already.



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"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin

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marshallamps12
Posted: July 22nd, 2006, 12:19am Report to Moderator
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I just read got done reading this. Here's my thoughts:

Not bad, not bad at all. It's definitely an enjoyable read. I like screenplays that are very dialogue-driven. To tell you the truth, I feel this could be fleshed out into a 100-120 page screenplay. The dialogue was good for the most part, besides a few spelling errors here and there (but nothing to serious). The characters were interesting. The screenplay was very fun to read. It's very entertaining and some of the lines were great ("and Bum, well, he's a bum" had me cracking up). It's an interesting idea for a screenplay and I definitely think it can be made with a very low budget.

I haven't read any of your other scripts so I don't know if you were referencing any of your other works, I'm just curious about something. There's a scene where Cam talks about having a book feature difference characters in each chapter and they are all connected by something (he says a comb or a watch). Have you ever tried doing something like that in a story? I know it's just a random question but it sounds like an interesting idea. Was there any significance to that part? I was thinking that maybe it was symbolic of Gabe and how he is involved with different stories featuring different people in the same diner. He finds himself meeting Franklin, Jack, Lily, etc. They're all interesting characters and they have their own characteristics, yet their similarity is that they all go to the diner either for comfort, for friends, or just for some coffee (man, a lot of coffee is drunk throught the screenplay :p). Gabe interacts with all of them in some way, kind of like a watch that connects different stories, like Cam was talking about.

Perhaps, I didn't read it close enough, but as far as I could tell, there didn't seem to be enough character development. Let's take Gabe for example. We know he's a writer, he's from the midwest, he went to the city for new ideas, he has an ex-girlfriend. His external conflict is that he is struggling to get ideas to write The Great American Novel. Is this really resolved by the end of the script? Also, what is his internal conflict? I'm not saying these things aren't there, as it's very possible that I didn't read close enough, I just found the characters to be a little lacking. I'm not saying all the characters need to be 3 dimensional, but I think it would make the screenplay better if you fleshed out the characters more.

One more thing: I really liked how Gabe wrote down the characteristics of the people he met into his little notebook. It's a clever way to introduce characters and also to add depth to them that we might not have known about them. For example, when he writes down the characteristics about Del, he mentions that he's overworked. Del and Gabe obviously have known each other for awhile, so perhaps Gabe could write even more characteristics about him. It's sort of like a neat little way to add a background and depth to a character quickly and informatively.

These are just my thoughts, though. I'm just throwing suggestions around to see what you think and to see if you plan on extending this into a full-length screenplay. I enjoyed the screenplay very much and I look forward to reading your other works in the future.
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Shelton
Posted: July 22nd, 2006, 11:17am Report to Moderator
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Marshall, thanks for checking it out.

I had thought about extending this, but only to around 80-85 pages at this point due to the fact that when I was writing it I just ended up hitting where I thought it should end.  Reading back through I do have some areas I could expand on though.  100-120 pages?  Could be a challenge, but I might take a crack at it.

I've always wanted to write a script that contains four to five stories, but all of the stories are attached to a single element.  I'm yet to do it, but hopefully I will some day.

His external conflict is somewhat resolved at the end when he meets Jack with his vast assortment of stories.  His internal conflict is something that Cam comments on briefly, in that the only writing he does is characters in the notebook.  He's too choosy/picky to sit down and write the actual book.  The characters can use some beefing up, I'll agree.

Thanks for the comments.



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"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin

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marshallamps12
Posted: July 22nd, 2006, 11:34am Report to Moderator
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Oh, I see what you're talking about with the external/internal conflicts. I enjoyed reading the script and if you ever think about extending it, I'll definitely read that version too. I really think this could work as a full-length screenplay. The characters and dialogue are strong enough. If Clerks can get by with essentially 2 main characters, a couple minor characters, and a bunch of characters that only appear once or twice, then I think this could work. I found myself interested in the characters and wanted to know more about them. They all had interesting traits about them that kind of "hooked" me in. That's a key to a good script. I'll probably check out another of your scripts soon. Any suggestions?
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Shelton
Posted: July 22nd, 2006, 1:31pm Report to Moderator
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If you're looking for a feature, I'd recommend checking out a comedy, the action stuff is a little subpar in comparison.

For a short, whatever you like.  I'm all over the place in terms of genre with those.

Check out the link in my sig and see if anything strikes your interest.

Thanks again.


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"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin

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greg
Posted: February 16th, 2007, 6:48pm Report to Moderator
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Hello, Michael,

I remember we spoke about this script last summer when you were in the middle of writing it.  It's really quite impressive that you've been able to pull off a single-location script here and keep it interesting, though with 62 pages of stuff that's mostly dialogue, I doubt this thing would be able to clock in at even an hour.  Of course that's at first glance.  With some careful direction you could probably pull it off since you got some mellow-dramatic moments in here.

You know, I breezed through the first 20 pages, but I felt it lacked some substance.  I feel Gabe and I feel Barb, but then Cam makes his entry and I just didn't feel him until his second appearance, and then after that you clearly make him the slightly immature, bang bang friend guy thing.  

I laughed out loud when Bum made his appearance, simply because of the name you gave him and his early antics.  One thing I think that you should expand on here is creating some development for him at the end.  Maybe make him a sadder individual, then have him tell a short story, then at the end he reveals his real name or something, because as was said in the story, no one knows his real name.

Franklin was hilarious, very nice add of consistent comic relief.  The subplot with Lily and Yago I think was the real drama of this story.  As a young woman essentially being forced to start stripping, the reader feels that emotion for her.  Both of Yago's ass-kicking exits were very well played out.  Speaking of which, the car salesman-mafia bit was excellent.  The initial scene where the three guys burst out laughing, and then Jack's final "Yep, behind on his payments" bit had me cracking up.

It was good to see Jack again...I guess he's the guy that may be coming in and out of your stories from now on.  However, he essentially took over the story a little too much I felt.  After Gabe is knocked out, Jack's pretty much the main guy for 15 pages, and that's a long time in a short feature such as this.  I think maybe waking Gabe up earlier so he can resume his role as the main character would help.  I mean Jack is a fun guy, but Gabe is the main character.  I know that he's trying to gain inspiration from these folks, so having him knocked out for a 4th of the story seems a little offkey.  

The dialogue was great.  The re-occuring quirks such as Franklin's germaphobia and Del's grub at no one buying food were excellent.  Everyone was easily distinguishable and the piece moved very quickly.  I'm happy to say that I enjoyed this piece very much.  A single location feature is definitely no easy task, but you pulled it off here with extroadinary success.  Good job!


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Shelton
Posted: February 17th, 2007, 6:23pm Report to Moderator
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Greg,

Thanks a lot for bringing this one back up from the depths and taking a look at it.  I'm quite proud of it as it stands, but I do have plans to go back and work on it in the hopes of being able to start putting it out there.

The opening is a little iffy.  Most of it is in developing the real core characters a bit, and Keith and Valerie don't serve much of a purpose other than to establish how Gabe does things and that Barb is a veteran people watcher herself.

I really tried to give each character their own little niche (The cook who can't cook, the germophobe, the indentured servant stripper, etc..), and Cam's just takes a bit longer to come through.  Franklin is based on an idea that I had for a short script that I thought would work better as a small subplot in the feature.

Jack will definitely be popping up periodically as I find ways to work him into scripts without forcing it.  I actually have ideas for a sequel, but I'm keeping away from doing that since I haven't been able to officially sell the original yet.

Thanks for the read and the comments.  I hope to have an extended, more well rounded out version up here at some point.


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Shelton
Posted: May 3rd, 2007, 9:54pm Report to Moderator
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Hey all,

New version of the script here.  

I've added about 40 pages and have completely taken it over to the comedy side. I even took it outside of the coffee shop for a few scenes.  I really liked the first version, but I think the extension has made it even better, not to mention making it more commercial.

Looking forward to any feedback.


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mcornetto
Posted: May 7th, 2007, 3:38am Report to Moderator
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Hey Mike,

The characters were mostly well drawn and the dialogue was good but this was very light on story. There wasn't much to hold interest until  the Yago plot developed.  Sometimes this really reminded me of a stageplay, even the dialogue (Sort of like Bus Stop without the heavy bits).  You could certainly film it but it didn’t seem filmic.

I know you were trying to write something that was low budget and kept to one location but my suggestion is to forget that.  Write your film without the concern of budget.  Then edit that script to make it fit your budgetary constraints.  You will turn out a better product.

Some specific things I noted about the script were:

If you were going to use one location, then use one location.  You can most certainly get away with that. One of my favourite movies is ‘My Dinner with Andre’ and that takes place solely at a restaurant table.  

To achieve this I think your main character has to be more interesting.  Gabe wasn't. I thought Jack stole the show, and that was not good.  You'll probably say "No way" but I would suggest removing Jack from this script. You know him too well and he comes across stronger than the main character. Even the main character is in awe of him.

I liked the ongoing dreams and the repeated killing of Jill. I would have liked to have known Jill better. Her death was meaningless without me knowing how I should have felt about it.  Also it seemed like you repeated the same death for her twice then changed it.  I could be wrong but I think it was run over, run over, shot, shot. Did you do this intentionally?

Also, I think you missed an opportunity for a dream when Gabe passed out.

Overall, not bad - but I know you can do better.  Let me know when you have the next draft up.

Michael      


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Shelton
Posted: May 7th, 2007, 4:41am Report to Moderator
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Michael,

Thanks for getting to this one so quickly and for the feedback.  I can see what you're saying in regards to this readng like a stageplay, and I think the reason for that is two-fold.  1) This is the first script that I went back to work on after completing play, and 2)  I've always been a dialogue heavy writer, which is definitely more suited to the stage.

The screenplay itself picks up a little more with the introduction of Yago because its storyline runs almost parallel to Gabe's fantasy storyline.  As he meets new and exciting people that give him inspiration and allow him to expand on his story, it expands the exterior story as well.  The same can be said for Jack.  He's a much more gripping character because he needs to be.  Gabe is the main guy here, but Jack has to have that little something more about him that enables him to unseat Gabe as hero of his story.  That's probably a snooty, intellectual type response, but it's the best I got...hahaha.

What was it about Yago that peaked your interest?  Was it the switchblade comb?

In the earlier draft, Jack didn't come in until way late.  Some people thought the story didn't pick up until then and to try and get him in earlier, so I went with it.

The original draft did take place entirely in the coffee shop and clocked in at about 65 pages.  A producer had foudn it on here, but felt it was far too short in it's current state, so we exchanged some ideas back and forth and came up with the additional material consisting of the daydreams and most everything outside of the coffee shop, with the exception of Franklin whose part I just expanded a little since he seemed to be a reader favorite.

Jill broke up with Gabe, which has essentially caused him to develop the weird block.  I figured that outside of that, anything I could show wouldn't have too much impact so I decided to reveal it in the dialogue.  I had to go back through to remember all of Jill's deaths, but they break down like this....

1 - Hit by a car
2 - Hit by a motorcycle
3 - Shot by Barb with a .38
4 - Poisoned by gas
5 - Gunned down by Jack
6 - Cuff link dart to the neck
7 - Stiletto heel to the eye
8 - No apparent cause of death, just the switcheroo after Jack knocks out Yago

Gabe being passed out was a nice shot for a dream, but at that time the only thing I could have squeezed in would have been another story with the entire cast, and I didn't want to overload it that way since the next and very last one is his resolution.

As far as the next draft goes, it'll probably be awhile before I get around to it.  I normally work in a cycle, rewriting one script and then moving on to the next one, so on and so forth.  I have about four other scripts in the cycle, plus I'm going to be starting an assignment soon and still have to write a play.  I'm far too busy for my own good.

Did you find that each of the characters had their own voice?  I figured it'd be a good question to ask you since you just finished a big ensemble piece.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the read and the feedback.


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