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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Drama Scripts  ›  Specter Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: November 29th, 2007, 5:57pm Report to Moderator
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Specter by Gregory J. Baldwin - Drama, Supernatural Drama - Some believe that everything happens for a reason.  One night, a dispirited believer is unexpectedly struck by a drunk driver and killed on the spot.  Now trapped in limbo with only Fate on his side, he wanders the earth in search of a way to salvage his destiny and prevent the universe from being destroyed. 95 pages - pdf, format


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Revision History (1 edits)
bert  -  November 29th, 2007, 9:15pm
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greg
Posted: November 29th, 2007, 7:08pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Don for posting this!

This is the first thing I've posted here in well over a year, so if you happen to come across it then I hope you enjoy.

Note: The length is actually 95 pages.  Can we fix that?


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Shelton
Posted: November 29th, 2007, 7:13pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Greg,

I usually enjoy looking at your stuff so I'll get to this soon.  I noticed the title is Specter though.  Is that like a ghost?  If so, I think it's normally spelled Spectre.

If it has something to do with something found in the script, then pay no mind.


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"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin
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greg
Posted: November 29th, 2007, 7:20pm Report to Moderator
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You know, I looked into this a while back and both spellings are technically correct.  "Spectre" I think is more of the European way to spell it whereas "Specter" would be the western approach.  Both mean the same thing of ghost, phantom, spirit, etc.  

Hope you enjoy!


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tomson
Posted: November 29th, 2007, 7:28pm Report to Moderator
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Awesome Greg! Good for you to have another feature under your belt.

I'm looking forward to reading it, I now have three others ahead of this one though, but I'm reading like a mad person here trying to catch up.

As far as the title goes, I started a script not long ago with Specter in the title too and I noticed the different spellings. I went with the same spelling you did.
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greg
Posted: November 29th, 2007, 11:35pm Report to Moderator
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Much appreciated, Pia!  Thanks!

Been a while since I've put anything new up, so I'm looking forward to any feedback that anyone has to provide.


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bert
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Geez, here I am at post #6 and I still get first crack at this.  So much visiting going on here in Greg’s thread.

And that is somewhat reminiscent of the script, actually.  My opening salvo on this script is how darn chatty it is, particularly when Ken meets fate.  Their conversation starts off great, but as it progresses, it could probably be cut by half.  Once the scenario is established -- where Ken has arrived -- it is time to move things along.  We spend 14 pages on that conversation, Greg.  I am not recommending that you kill all of the philosophical musings, many of which are amusing, but look for redundancies and unnecessary exposition and you will find them.

But I am getting ahead of myself.  Starting from the beginning:

*  For the opening V.O., “building multitudes of stress upon it” strikes me as an unwieldy cluster of words.  I would rephrase at least that small segment.
*  While talking with Rose, the underlined words are a distraction.  Honest.  You know better than that, anyway.  And you use them throughout, way too often.
*  I see that somebody is using their accounting courses in their writing haha.  That’s good, actually.
*  Dialogue snafu on page 9.  It’s “bear” with me -- “bare” with me sounds like they are both going to get naked.
*  I do like the car he gets.  That’s a nice touch.
*  Page 41, using etc. to describe the apartment?  Yick.  Lose that.
*  During Annabelle and Lenny’s date, I am thinking you should make him a little more charming.  His dialogue is pretty crude, and Annabelle being attracted to this guy makes her less attractive by association, you know what I mean?  Make Lenny at least a little more likeable so he is worthy of Annabelle’s affections, and also a more worthy adversary for Ken.  And none of these changes have to effect Lenny’s behavior later.  In fact, it will come as even more of a surprise.
*  Why does Lenny shoot Sonja?  That seems odd.  Fate mentions it later, but it still seems like it comes out of the blue.
*  The dentist appointment line in the hospital is pretty good.  One of the best in the script.

Broader now, looking at the story as a whole, the biggest change that I would recommend involves the first act and Ken’s interactions with Annabelle.  Or rather, his lack of interaction.

If it was such a horrible disruption of fate that he not hook up with Annabelle, then this missed opportunity should be attributable to more than his simply ignoring her.  We are dealing with fate here, and there should be some crazy confluence of events leading to their not meeting.  A perfect storm of circumstance.

When Fate says, "I must have missed something" that is not good enough.  Fate should give Ken a solid reason -- something based upon earlier events -- and then we can say, “Oh, so that is why that happened.”  What you need here is a set-up and a payoff, which will strengthen the script.

I hate to ding this one because it feels more personal that your previous works -- as if there is a good bit of Greg in Ken -- and I did like it for that -- but for an honest assessment, after Scorsese and Cobb Hill, I would place this one third.

But that is not to say that this story does not have plenty going for it.  There is light and dark and despair and humor.  There are serious consequences at stake, a good lead driving the story, and you tie things up well as the story comes to an end.  You juggle lots of good ideas here and you do it with confidence and flair.

Maybe this one is more Shelton's department.  You are out of my genre here, and I always struggle with reviews for scripts like this.  I, too, will also be curious to see what Mike gives you on this one.


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mgj
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Your logline sounded interesting so I thought I'd check this out.  I've always been interested in philosphy, fate and all that stuff.

Spoilers to follow:

I like how you slowly introduce us to your main character Ken by letting us observe him though a typical day - on the bus, at work in the office and whatnot.  The dialogue sounds natural and each character has a unique voice.  There's even a touch of mystery thrown in with that woman with the cane.  

The senario you set up here - that Fate makes a mistake and as a result the universe starts to unravel is an interesting 'what if' senario.   Variations of this same theme have been done before but the 'mistake' aspect of your story is unique from the others I've seen.  I wish though, that you hadn't simply made this an oversight on his part. It just seems a bit of a reach that a supreme being who controls the fate of the entire universe could simply make a mistake.  Perhaps you can work around this.  Say there's some dark, sinister force at work here, attempting to disrupt the natural course of things.  I think there needs to be some sort of reason for his error.

I like the concept you came up with with the force-field preventing Ken from interacting with the physical world.  I always found it odd that in the movie 'Ghost' Patrick Swayze couldn't touch objects but was still able to walk on the floor.  You've solved this little problem with the force-field.

I did notice one typo - on page 52 you switched Annabelle's name with April.

After reading this I'm left with one lingering question - why didn't Fate simply just send him back in time to begin with?  It seems the problems with the universe could be fixed simply by doing this.  And when this does eventually happen, it seems more of a knee-jerk reaction than done with any sort of rationale behind it - or I'm I just not reading it correctly?

Aside from this plot-point, I'd say this script has a lot going for it.  The dialogue in particular felt very natural.  It reads with flow and the characters, even Fate, are well drawn up.  BTW, I like that you gave Fate some personality - a little humor but not too much; just the right amount, I think.  Some of his musings with Ken could go on alittle long in spots but I wouldn't suggest taking a weed-wacker to it - just a little trimming here and there.

Hope this helps.

-Mike


"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it." - Albert Einstein
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greg
Posted: December 8th, 2007, 2:02pm Report to Moderator
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Cool!  Nice to wake up to two reviews, both of which provide different and constructive insight.

Bert,

Thanks for checking this out, mate!


Quoted Text
*  Dialogue snafu on page 9.  It’s “bear” with me -- “bare” with me sounds like they are both going to get naked.


Damn it.  Thought I had them all.  Thank you.


Quoted Text
*  Page 41, using etc. to describe the apartment?  Yick.  Lose that.

Check.


Quoted Text
*  During Annabelle and Lenny’s date, I am thinking you should make him a little more charming.


I see what you're saying in this part, but I think rather than switching Lenny around, Annabelle would be the one in need of more development.  What I was trying to go for was to have Lenny appear decent(and, as Fate says, I use that term loosely) individual, but as the destiny lines veer farther and farther away, Lenny goes from just crude dialogue to actually doing horrible things.  


Quoted Text
I hate to ding this one because it feels more personal that your previous works -- as if there is a good bit of Greg in Ken -- and I did like it for that -- but for an honest assessment, after Scorsese and Cobb Hill, I would place this one third.


Really?!  Wow.  That's something I didn't see coming, but I find it a very interesting viewpoint.  Cobb Hill is always one that I wanted to totally redo but just couldn't get to it.  That may be my next thing to do.  


Quoted Text
You are out of my genre here, and I always struggle with reviews for scripts like this.


No worries.  You gave a very thorough review and I always appreciate your feedback.  It's always precise and to the point.  No BS.


Quoted Text
I, too, will also be curious to see what Mike gives you on this one.


Me too.


Mike,

Thank YOU for your review as well.


Quoted Text
I wish though, that you hadn't simply made this an oversight on his part. It just seems a bit of a reach that a supreme being who controls the fate of the entire universe could simply make a mistake.  Perhaps you can work around this.  Say there's some dark, sinister force at work here, attempting to disrupt the natural course of things.  I think there needs to be some sort of reason for his error.


You know, Bert brought this up to and I thought I knew what I was doing but it seems(coming from reviews on two different spectrums as well) that it didn't work.  I wanted to play it into the idea that all of this after-life stuff is a lot more simple than what it comes off as(i.e. the barren whiteness of Half-Point, breaking all of life down to that of a white board, etc.) and that we all make mistakes.  That was basically the angle.  That's something I'll keep my eye out for in other reviews.


Quoted Text
I did notice one typo - on page 52 you switched Annabelle's name with April.


Damn it.  Even if you read it 1000 times you still miss one.  Thank you.


Quoted Text
After reading this I'm left with one lingering question - why didn't Fate simply just send him back in time to begin with?  It seems the problems with the universe could be fixed simply by doing this.


Good question.  It was more of a danger.  The story is filled with "what ifs" and this is one of them.  The general idea is that, while Fate could plop him back into the past, it would be a mammoth risk because, well, it's not anyone's destiny to go back in time and essentially rewrite life.  Now, while I have figured out the method of time travel(a discussion for another time[seriously, I'm not joking{seriously}]) for Fate to initiate it would be to rewrite the lines on the white board and risk everything for the future.  That's why he added the car to Ken's life in the end, to basically "white out" the remains of the erased future.  Fate never plopped anyone back into the past before, so it was a risk for him as well.

Now I see that you have a new piece up as well.  I've got Finals this week and then I'm going home, so I'll add that to my to-do list to return the favor for ya!

Thanks again fellas for your reviews!  Great feedback!  Much appreciated!


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tomson
Posted: December 9th, 2007, 3:11pm Report to Moderator
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Greg,

Read your script over the weekend. Even skipped ahead of reading "Underneath" so you wouldn't think I was just a talker.

I rather enjoyed this script and the idea you have here. I do believe it does need some work, but the premise is very good.

I think that the beginning scene on the bus, you need to make it more clear that Ken finds Annabelle attractive. Right now, all I thought was that she’d play a part in this script eventually, but since she turns out to be the reason he does what he does and he's in love with her, I think you can make that first scene a little more interesting. Doesn't have to be anything big. Maybe as he glances at her she looks back at him and he shyly looks away or something. Just something to let us know they recognize each other (after 18 months they would) and he finds her attractive.

What's an intimidating complexion?

The restaurant scene with Rose could be worked out a little better IMO. I assume you want to establish that Ken has bad luck with women, but he comes off as clingy and weak. In other words, he doesn't really get any sympathy from me at least and isn't that what you want from the audience? For us to feel for him.

What does Rose mean, "don't put all your eggs in one basket"Âť. I know what that means, but it seems an odd choice of words here.

Ken and Chucks relationship is fine btw.

Haha, I believe you really must love steak! Not sure it's necessary to be so specific about what type of steak however.

Chuck tells Ken he lets people walk all over him. Show us some more of that. I didn't think Rose did nor Mr. Sullivan. Not saying they were nice to him, but walking all over him?

Page 13 you write "rain starts to pour"Âť. I've heard that we should avoid using starts to and begins to. Just write "The rain pours"Âť. It reads better too. I think.

After Ken is struck by the truck a MALE PEDESTRIAN shouts “Get a cop over here”. Maybe I’m wrong, but why would they want a cop? Why not an ambulance? Seems more logical to me.

I like Fate. You did good with his character.

The medics arrive and use defibrillators on him. I’m not a medical person, but I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express once. Is that a wise move? He is soaking wet and I believe later in the script you described him as bloody all over as well. You may want to look into proper medical procedure there and also decide what injuries he has. Is he bloody or not?

I agree with Bert that the first conversation between Ken and Fate goes on way too long. Mostly Fate’s explanations. I was thinking while reading it, come on get over with it. Just spit it out. Don’t mistake that as if I didn’t like it. I enjoyed the subject matter a lot, just needs to be trimmed. Also felt that Ken accepted he was dead a little to easily.

Annabelle gets hit by a car too? Can you find another way for her and Lenny to “bump” into each other?

I didn’t buy that Annabelle would go off and have coffee with Lenny. Bert is right here too. It makes her just look like a desperate loser/moron and that’s not what you want us to think. You want us to like here. Maybe find a less violent way for the two to bump into each other and make Lenny a little more pleasant so it won’t feel so wrong. Also Fate tells Ken not to worry, Lenny is not going to hurt her. Since he rapes, beat her and eventually kills her, isn’t that a flat out lie?

What does Fate mean when he says “Annabelle doesn’t have a backbone at all”? So far she’s made a couple of dumb decisions, but I wouldn’t call it having no backbone.

At Ken’s apartment, why are there three police cars there? Why are friends and co-workers there? Ken died in a different location and we know who did it so it’s not exactly a mystery. You kind of have it like there are detectives there trying to solve a crime. Just seemed odd to me.

Annabelle’s and Lenny’s date feels bad too. Again, he is such a coarse jerk, I cannot believe that she enjoys the date.

How come the only thing Ken can touch is the silver gun? Is it the fact that it is made out of silver? If so, I think you have a problem. I could of course be wrong, but real silver isn’t hard enough of a metal to work as a gun. Is it just a nickel plated steel gun? Then why would that be special enough that he can touch it? Just a thought.

I don’t get why Fate keeps saying to Ken that he’s done his job and there’s nothing else he (Ken) can do. What exactly did he do? Did I miss something? As far as I can tell he didn’t really manage to prevent anything. Not the beatings or the killings of both women.

Page 42 Fate says “we better hope there’s a lot left”. A lot left of what? LOL, I know I’m dense, sorry.

Not that this is important, but after all that Lenny has done, I just can’t picture him as a wine drinker. More like a beer guzzler or hard liquor type guy.

Ken sure drives around a lot following Annabelle and Lenny. I kind of wonder why since he’s unable to do anything...

Why is Ken walking “timidly” towards the couch when he knows no one can see him or feel his presence?

Fate tells Ken Heaven will accept him with open arms. Again, what exactly is it that he’s done?

These were just thoughts and questions I had while reading and I hope you take them as intended. To be helpful.

All in all Greg, I really enjoyed it. Definitely like the idea here. I could picture everything easily and I liked the whole space, Fate, destiny, hope thing.

Pia

[why does it do that? every time I copy from Word? All weird stuff is instead of " or ']






Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
greg  -  December 9th, 2007, 3:49pm
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greg
Posted: December 10th, 2007, 12:20am Report to Moderator
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Hey Pia, thank you for the read!

I feel that I grew a lot as a writer with this piece.  I also knew that it would promote lots of questions which I am going to try my best to answer!


Quoted Text
What's an intimidating complexion?


Just someone who doesn't look nice.  There's a study out there that says someone's eyebrows can initiate a lot on first contact(really, really, really arched can be creepy, and not so arched can be nice).


Quoted Text
What does Rose mean, "don't put all your eggs in one basket"Âť. I know what that means, but it seems an odd choice of words here.


Basically it shows his dependency in other people rather than standing up for himself.


Quoted Text
After Ken is struck by the truck a MALE PEDESTRIAN shouts “Get a cop over here”. Maybe I’m wrong, but why would they want a cop? Why not an ambulance? Seems more logical to me.


This is a question that went through my head while writing it.  I just thought that a cop is a far more common utility in situations like these, plus these people see that this man was struck by the truck, so likewise you'd want to get the driver arrested.


Quoted Text
I like Fate. You did good with his character.


Yeah, he's a G.  No, but seriously, thanks for that.  When I was reading the first draft of this I thought to myself "this guy is really a snobby little punk."  So I wound up re-doing practically all of his dialogue to make him less jerkish.  It seems from early reviews that it paid off.


Quoted Text
The medics arrive and use defibrillators on him. I’m not a medical person, but I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express once. Is that a wise move? He is soaking wet and I believe later in the script you described him as bloody all over as well. You may want to look into proper medical procedure there and also decide what injuries he has.


Yes, the Holiday Inn Express can be a rough experience.  On this topic I will plead ignorance.  As for procedure, the defibrillator isn't introduced until Ken and Fate view the past in Limbo, so time has passed and the paramedics can find out what needs to be done.  Perhaps moving him into the ambulance to perform such a thing would be better if the rain would be an issue.


Quoted Text
What does Fate mean when he says “Annabelle doesn’t have a backbone at all


No backbone, like, doesn't know how to get out of a situation, i.e. the type of person who will let others talk her into things, doing stuff, etc.


Quoted Text
At Ken’s apartment, why are there three police cars there? Why are friends and co-workers there? Ken died in a different location and we know who did it so it’s not exactly a mystery. You kind of have it like there are detectives there trying to solve a crime. Just seemed odd to me.


Maybe one would be better.  As we saw in the end, he had Chuck's card in his pocket, so likewise they contact him and he contacts a few other people with significance in Ken's life.  As for why are they in his apartment?  Keep in mind the hit took place only 12 hours or so earlier. While the driver was drunk, they don't know if he knew the guy or what's going on here. While we know it wasn't a targeted hit, the cops don't.


Quoted Text
Annabelle’s and Lenny’s date feels bad too. Again, he is such a coarse jerk, I cannot believe that she enjoys the date.


I think from what I'm gathering thus far is that I should give Annabelle more story.


Quoted Text
How come the only thing Ken can touch is the silver gun? Is it the fact that it is made out of silver?


Misinterpretation While this object has a little more attention, he also interacts with Annabelle's journal, he sits in chairs at tables, throws a hammer, etc.  The only rule I made for interaction with objects is that he can interact with anything inanimate, but it has no parallel result in the "real" world(i.e. Lenny takes the gun after Ken shoots).


Quoted Text
Page 42 Fate says “we better hope there’s a lot left”. A lot left of what?


Hope!  


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Ken sure drives around a lot following Annabelle and Lenny. I kind of wonder why since he’s unable to do anything...


Observing, watching, "keeping an eye out."  Here's this guy who just inadvertently took over Ken's destiny, so curiosity gets the best of him.


Quoted Text
Why is Ken walking “timidly” towards the couch when he knows no one can see him or feel his presence?


While no one knows he's there, he's still himself.  It's like when you're about to console someone and you may do things slower or more gently.


Quoted Text
Fate tells Ken Heaven will accept him with open arms. Again, what exactly is it that he’s done?


Could you clarify what you mean?  I think those @$#@$#@ symbols are starting to mess with me, man!

Good questions and very good feedback! You've always provided valuable feedback for...I think everything I've written! Thank you very much for checking this out and I'm glad you enjoyed it and I hope you also enjoy J-Rock's piece!!

PS - BIG CONGRATS on taking first place!!!!  You rock my socks!!!!


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JD_OK
Posted: December 11th, 2007, 10:56pm Report to Moderator
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Newton's Cradle will make you a believer.

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hey greg sorry for delay, here in oklahoma been crazy since power has been out and i hadnt printed off ur script,

Im at right ken meets fate, so expect more soon.

So far reads smooth and quick


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!


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greg
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Hey JD, no worries, take your time. I probably won't have the chance to get to your piece until next week anyway.  Don't beat me up.

Hope the rest runs smooth for you!


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Hi Greg, saw this on Script Exchange Board. Mine hasnt' been posted yet but when it does I hope you can take a look at it.

The fate character could use some work. With a title like that, the character should be more impressive or original or something different. Never got the sense of that. Not saying that Fate has to be epic, serious, whatever, but that someone so important and non-human should stand out.

The explanation of balancing fates was nice.  As is your description of the world/universe going haywire because of Ken’s early demise.

Something I am not clear on is that if Ken and Anabelle were meant for one another then why does she fall for Lenny so quickly when he seems to be the opposite of Ken?

One of the main problems I’m having right now with the script is that Ken doesn’t and pretty much cant do anything.  Everybody else is acting and he is just observing which almost makes him a backseat character. It is action packed with him in the last little bit, but for most of the script all we do is observe instead of see him act.  The concept of fate being ruined is very interesting, but I never felt very interested in any of the characters because of the lack of interaction between Kenny and Lenny/Anabelle and the fact that most of Fate’s role was boiled down to explanation of the universe and his jobs instead of actions by him.
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tomson
Posted: December 12th, 2007, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
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"I feel that I grew a lot as a writer with this piece."

That was my exact thought too. Maybe that's why I enjoyed it a lot.

Obviously I must have had a lead brain while reading this. Seemed I misunderstood quite a few things, haha.

Go with your instinct in the rewrite and I'm sure it will turn out great.
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