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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Drama Scripts  ›  Better To Have Loved Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: June 10th, 2009, 9:53pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Better To Have Loved by Kimberly Britt (screen_dreamer) - Drama - A young marine returning from war falls in love with the wife of his controlling, abusive brother, unintentially igniting a new war closer to home. 91 pages - pdf, format


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Chongamon
Posted: June 21st, 2009, 8:29pm Report to Moderator
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Sorry I haven't started to read the script, but just had to mention how good the logline is
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screen_dreamer
Posted: June 21st, 2009, 11:50pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks.  Let me know what you think if you give it a read.
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LC
Posted: June 24th, 2009, 12:27am Report to Moderator
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Kimberly, hi. First off I hope you'll see my (seemingly neg.) comments as "constructive criticism" because overall imo, you do know how to write a screenplay.

The first thing that stands out is that your script essentially reads as a "Hallmark" midday movie, but you have written it capably and intelligently.

I've written things down as I've gone along so it may appear a bit all over the place.

The opening is just too "hearts and flowers" & the voice-over didn't work for me and if I can name one thing that is consistently "over the top" and novel-like throughout your script it is your description lines. Incorporated in them a lot of passive verbs and "unfilm-ables". And you lay on the purple-prose way too much.

SPOILERS


Purple Prose examples:
"A rose garden filled with blooms of every color. BEES and BUTTERFLIES fly freely from one blossom to another."
TYLER ROGERS (36), a tall man with broad shoulders and dark brooding eyes, peers out the back door, visually sweepingthe grounds.
NOELLE ROGERS (22), a petite woman in a floral sundress and bare feet, scampers out of the rose garden and across the perfectly manicured lawn."

"Show don't tell" examples & Novel-type descriptions.
"She tries to keep her focus on the task at hand, but finds herself slipping up quite often."

"After a long beat, Kelley opens the door and watches Noelle go scurrying out, like a frightened animal fleeing toward safety."
"She scampers out of the rose garden Noelle's golden brown hair shimmers down her back in the warm morning sunlight."

Now, I know this is the genre you're writing but it's really thick with "Mills & Boon" description and you are writing a screenplay here not a novel.

So, obviously I'm of a mind to say, Hey, whoa, scale it back a bit please.

Then I think well, it is what it is, and it only really gets in the way when you drop the "active verbs". So keep it in IF you must but be aware that thoughts and feelings cannot be filmed unless they are expressed through physical action/gestures etc.

I had a bit of a problem with the character name:  Kelley, but then, touche you solved it for me later through dialogue & likewise with the "golden brown toast."

His "high and tight haircut" - I'm not fond of this description. Can he not just have an armed-forces standard buzz-cut?

"Do you think you could stop me at
the post office for a minute?"
Is this a backwards "Southern" way of saying things?

Sequence on page 44/45 not sure if that should be V.O. or O.S. or intercut.

I think you've got a slug line missing on page one where Tyler drags Noelle into the house.

Imo, "Out of character" dialogue:
KELLEY
"Well, she looks it. The years
have not been kind to that woman.
(out loud)
Yeah, Fran, I'm talking about you."

Yes, Fran is a shrew but she is Noelle's mother and Kelley's the "good guy".

Also, I would have preferred if Noelle or Kelley had said:
"No, not here" and that they'd "done the deed" in a more romantic setting - maybe in a hay stack or a field of clover?
On page 47 "the 'Birthday girl' wears an overly
poufy pink dress and has a (should be "an") indulgent fur boa and "birthday girl" tiara on.

Ok, if you insist but, the fur or feather boa should be hyphenated and poufy? That's a typo. Puffy or flouncy.

On page 49.
"Kelley is already moving toward her.
And then they are in each others' arms, kissing
passionately. Removing clothing. Caressing bare flesh.
Laying across the bench seat."

First, use lie "laying" is past tense. And, substitute active verbs i.e. drop the excessive "ing" words.

"Noelle has lost a lot of blood". Prime example of "show don't tell." You need to instead describe the large pool of blood forming on the floor.

KELLEY
"They're sending me back."

I never understood why he was "on leave" in the first place, long enough to get a full-time job.

Likewise I did not understand or see the need for the tiny sub-plot of Kelley's dubious parentage.

I think you need to work out if you're writing true to the "hero" form you've set up or not. Kelley went down in my estimation when he shot his own fingers off and had a tantrum with the guys in the mess-hall. Couldn't he have sustained an injury during his time in Iraq? Much more noble. I just think if you're going to go with the (somewhat cliched) genre then commit to it fully.

Cliches galore: "Tyler, don't you fucking die on me. Don't you do it. Goddamn you. Tyler!"
"I've heard this line over and over; then again I've heard it even in blockbusters...

On page 86 you've got this error - should be Noelle's line I think?
KELLEY
"Kelley!"

Curiously, you did resist Noelle showing up with a black eye. There is never any actual evidence in your script that Tyler is physically abusive towards Noelle. Yes, he is a tactless, verbally abusive cliche red-neck idiot but your log-line made me think his abuse would be far more "physical" not just verbally "controlling".

Also, maybe think of introducing another character as a foil for Noelle - a girlfriend perhaps? Not essential though.

Ok, so now to the ending. If you'd ended it in the tried & true "Hallmark"/"Mills & Boon" way i.e. Noelle and her baby just pull through - Tyler dies, and Kelley gets the girl, then imo you've got a very good chance of having this picked up.

I really don't think now is the time to deviate from the type of story/genre you were writing up until this point. That's a whole different script imo.

Plus, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense! Kelley quite obviously did not kill Tyler. Tyler shot himself. Forensics would prove it i.e. gun-shot residue on his own hand and point of entry of the bullet etc.

Kimberly, there is definitely a market for what you've written. It's just as good as some of the lunch-time fare already being made (not being facetious here) and like I said, imo, except for a few "over-the top" descriptions, you've done a really good job. Maybe submit it to Inktip? Be interesting to see how you get on. All the very best of luck to you. Libby.

P.S. Whoops, forgot to say very nice intercut/telephone convo. pages 41/42.



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LC  -  June 24th, 2009, 1:18am
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screen_dreamer
Posted: June 24th, 2009, 5:33pm Report to Moderator
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LC,

Thanks so much for the in depth analysis.  I've had a lot of trouble with people not "getting" this script on other sites, so I'm glad to see that you did.  I'll definitely be keeping your suggestions in mind.  

I really wasn't going for the "hallmark" type movie, hence the ending.  And although it might seem simpler to just rewrite the ending, I think I would rather rewrite the whole thing to better match with the ending, as the ending "vibe" is what I was going for.  I wasn't trying to write a "sappy romance" but something more "dark and real".

About the shooting himself in war part, I knew a lot of people would have a problem with that, see it as unpatriotic or whatever.  But the thing is this... imagine you're at war, you think something terrible has either already happened or is about to happen to the person you love.  What do you do?  Do you hang around and hope to get shot (but not killed) or do you take matters into your own hands and make sure you're on the next flight back home.    Obviously (due to the fact that he beats a fellow marine over a joke) he's already going a bit crazy at this point, so he's not thinking or acting in a rational manner.

Anyway, thanks again and I appreciate your honesty.

Kim
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vindog
Posted: June 24th, 2009, 9:52pm Report to Moderator
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I'm just an old fart who's been a photographer for years and now just starting to do HD videos.  I am hoping I can find some folks who wouldn't mind a slow and painful film making adventure (oh, and for free of course).  

I was wondering (again, a guy without a clue) what would be needed to try taking a scene from this script as a test kind of thing?  How are permissions to use stuff like this worked out, assuming we are all doing it for free?

I have learned so much from reading the critique by the way.   Really cool to see how you guys think.  From what I've read so far, I enjoy the scenes in my head.  The commentary about being a novel struck a chord, but I liked it just the same!

Warmly,
vin

irvinephotography.com
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LC
Posted: June 25th, 2009, 6:04am Report to Moderator
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Hi vin, welcome to the site! I don't think I'm out of line by saying you can contact Kim (the author of the screenplay) by PM'ing her (just click on her username: screen_dreamer) or email her direct. The email address is on the title page of her script.


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screen_dreamer
Posted: June 26th, 2009, 2:41am Report to Moderator
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Thank, LC.  He contacted me.
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vindog
Posted: June 26th, 2009, 6:46am Report to Moderator
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Yep, now I'm trying to figure out how to just borrow ONE scene and try to shoot it on spec...but the legalities are preventing us from even looking at that idea.
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LC
Posted: June 26th, 2009, 7:24am Report to Moderator
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Sent you both a PM re this. Cheers, Libby.


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Coleman
Posted: July 22nd, 2009, 5:41am Report to Moderator
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Wow, you've written a pretty good story. The suspense and lack of communication between Noelle and the other characters made me want to read more while ticking me off at the same time.

I'd have to say my favorite part was when Kelley called Noelle from work inviting her to his Bose's daughter's birthday party and they started talking in code. That was very believable for me.

You did a good job creating an old fashioned mother who still holds on to the notion of "it doesn't matter if you're happy it's for the good of your future children" kind of attitude.

Another part I feel you did really well was the transitioning of voices during Noelle and Kelley's letter exchanges.

Tyler was a little too calm after we went wild finding the pills and letters. I kinda felt like time went by to fast whenever the first letter between Noelle and Kelley was exchanged to the last.

How can this story be made stronger: Frankly I had a hard time invisioning the characters. I saw action but I really couldn't picture a face to any of them. More detail could be spent on that to figure out there guise and ground the reader. They, the main characters need a defining physical feature of some sort.

Thanks for posting,

Brandon


"After Dark"
"Lie Behind the Eye"
"In Came You"
"Insatiable"
"Bethany"
"The Heartbreaker"
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lalaindahouse
Posted: July 23rd, 2009, 8:14am Report to Moderator
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Hi Kimberly!

I just wanted to let you know that I've throroughly enjoyed your script!  I thought it was well written.  I was wondering, did you go to school for screenwriting or is it something you picked up on your own?  

I wanted to ask you about the Tyler character.  It was a little perplexing to me how he changed drastically, from being the asshole husband to being a concerned husband.  it thwarted my initial perception of him.  I can justify it by thinking that he was fond of Noelle's mother because they had similar ideals when it comes to the "woman's job and duty."  But it seemed...jarring.  Maybe if there were a a smoother arc in his character development from the beginning of the story to the middle...

You captured a vivid picture in your descriptions.  I think that's important when it comes to the reader.  I wasn't bothered at all by the "novel" feel of it--but that's just me.

I would rethink on the title--but this a purely subjective POV.  The title does scream, "hallmark-y" but that's just me.  A producer may come across your script and toss it aside just based on the title.  I'm probably very biased because I tend to not like chick-flicky films.  

Overall, I thought it was very well written!  Good job!
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screen_dreamer
Posted: August 11th, 2009, 4:22pm Report to Moderator
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It's been a while since I Checked this thread.  Thanks for the additional suggestions.  

lalaindahouse -- To answer your question, no, I've never gone to school for screenwriting.  I took a creative writing course in college that was taught by a screenwriter and he sort of got me hooked.

Do you have any suggestions for a new title?
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