Dave -- Just saw this was up. Real life is getting in the way and I still need to find time for the OWC followed by the growing list of features I already promised notes on... but at some point soon I'll get to this. Looking forward to reading it.

Thanks for the comments - much appreciated.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I have only read up to page 11 so far. I like the story and where it's heading. If the rest of the script is written in the same way as these first 11, I think you could probably trim ten pages off this script by just by cutting some of your descriptions. They are unnecessary long, IMHO. Quoted Text I agree it needs some trimming up front - I think I can get where I want to be quicker.   [quote]They are also very specific. like the PALE BLUE HOUSE. Is it necessary to the story that it's that color? If not, I'd skip that. Disagree here - I am a fan of slugs being is specific as allowed by one line. IMHO - house is boring and indistinguishable.  If you can make it unique/specific - I think you always ought to go for it. [quote]Some of the descriptions are also repetitive. You tell us in the EXT paragraph of the liquor store how run down it is and such and then you do it again with the INT description. That is repetitive, at least to me since we got a good idea of the store from the earlier description.

I agree in terms of this specific one since the inside description is redundant. I think if there were something to add. e.g.,:  Crammed with more products than it was designed to hold - or something like that, an inside description is warranted. Good catch.

Quoted Text Also, try to use active verbs. Instead of "slowly walks", why not describe her walk with one word? She shuffles, she hobbles, she staggers...

Like this.

Quoted Text There were a couple of things about the story I was wondering about. Gabriel goes to buy a lottery ticket in the same store that Esperanza did. But, she already has the winning numbers. His ticket must therefore be from the next week's drawing, right? I don't play the lottery, but I'm pretty sure that those machines have a date and time when each ticket was sold. In other words, his ticket purchase wouldn't match the winning ticket. Which makes the convenience store surveillance seem extremely lucky  coincidence for Gabriel. I'll go along with it. It's a movie after all. Another thing that stood out for me is that Gabriel works for the state lottery. I'm pretty sure employees at the lottery can't win, but perhaps he finds someone else to cash it in for him.

Gabriel is only going to the store to discover if there was a video of Esperanza buying the ticket. His purchase of a ticket is merely a ruse to get the information about the camera. He's not trying to buy a winning ticket. He already knows that Esperanza holds it.

Lottery employees cannot win. Gabriel will not personally cash the ticket (and he knows this).

Thanks much for the read and the comments - useful.

Quoted from MarkItZero Dave -- Just saw this was up. Real life is getting in the way and I still need to find time for the OWC followed by the growing list of features I already promised notes on... but at some point soon I'll get to this. Looking forward to reading it.

No problem, James - just pleased that it is in your hopper. Good luck with the OWC. I have to sit this one out but look forward to the scripts.

Ok, I thought he was buying a ticket to swap with Esperanza's.

About the PALE BLUE HOUSE. I hear you, but I was curious if it was important to the story since you had it capitalized. If it's not important to the story, I would at least put it in lower case. Upper case is more for making sure that this item or sound is IMPORTANT, kind of thing. That was all.  

Quoted from Grandma Bear Ok, I thought he was buying a ticket to swap with Esperanza's. About the PALE BLUE HOUSE. I hear you, but I was curious if it was important to the story since you had it capitalized. If it's not important to the story, I would at least put it in lower case. Upper case is more for making sure that this item or sound is IMPORTANT, kind of thing. That was all.

Thought you were referring to just the slug. I now see where it is CAPPED in the action area. Should not be - thanks

Hey Dave, I've read a few pages and, with the logline, I definitely plan to finish this soon-ish. Looks really good.

Just to chime in re: the sluglines, I didn't find them distracting or too long or w/e. Wouldn't have even commented on them.

Quoted from AlsoBen Hey Dave, I've read a few pages and, with the logline, I definitely plan to finish this soon-ish. Looks really good. Just to chime in re: the sluglines, I didn't find them distracting or too long or w/e. Wouldn't have even commented on them.

Thanks, bud - loof forward to it

Dave,

Thought I’d check out the first ten or so and this pretty much held my interest to the end.

Great start - foreshadowing the Ranger grandson and the appearance of the gang worked to pull me in - there was no way I couldn’t not want to see where this was leading.  

I was kind of surprised when you spun this away from Gabriel to frame the story around Anna and the investigation.  You threw the goal of the lottery ticket front and centre at the outset and pulled all these opposing characters into place - really putting Gabriel in the thick of it.  But from there it turned into more of a police procedural and that initial momentum (or moreover pressure on Gabriel) stalled as Anna tried to work out who killed Esperanza.  

That no-one but Gabriel and Huck (which doesn’t factor in till late) know of the ticket’s existence left that whole angle with little room to develop.  No-one’s chasing the money and Gabriel's left somewhat sidelined with Double V and his gang in the frame for the killing.  Gabriel (and Huck’s) motivations were left rather thin - just simple greed.  I wonder if that’s enough?

Some surprise choices - Pablo’s Ranger character didn’t go where I expected (I thought he’d be more pivotal to this).  And then killing off Gabriel threw me through a loop.  Not in a bad way, but with Double V in the frame for Esperanza’s murder and no mention of the lottery ticket (that no-one on the surface of the story knows about) around p.75 there’s little to drive the story forward aside from finding Gabriel’s murderer - which given his actions I’m not all that sympathetic to.

I’m not a fan of the climax.  You build to the reveal with Huck but in order to pull it off you’re left with having to explain how he did it via a 7 page chunk of flashback/exposition.  The logic is pretty tight.  The hows and whys I can get with (maybe a little more ‘why’ on Huck’s part - why risk it?), but execution wise if I were watching this unfold on screen I’d be left pretty underwhelmed.  Really surprised Huck went out in handcuffs - though I suspect most writers would have opted for a violent end, so I respect you took it someplace else.

The way this unfolded put me in mind of a TV police drama.  Don’t get me wrong, between the characters (main and secondary), sharp dialogue and writing it’s a pleasure to read; perhaps a little description heavy here and there but it works to paint the scene/characters.  Plot wise I’m torn as outlined above.  Huck’s a decent twist, but I struggled with the way it was handled.  What if you didn’t hide his deceit?  

It’s a matter of taste and I think my expectations from the premise and set-up suggested this would unfold with a lot more conflict as characters clash over the money.  In the end this is more about the characters and the emotional impact of people’s choices - it's a lot more subtle, so kudos for that.  

There’s hints at a deeper theme here - at the nature of hope (‘Esperanza’, the lottery etc.).  I guess Pablo’s lucky, in a way - in surviving his injury.  I’m not sure how or if it relates to Anna?  I’m not sure what you intended to say there - maybe I’m not digging deep enough?  Interested to get your take on that.

NOTES:

P.14 - ‘...as he carves the letter “V” with the knife in his right hand.’  I’m guessing it’s her head but on first glance it reads like he’s carving it in his own hand.

Do you need the Postwoman scene of her finding Esperanza?  Could just be referenced in dialogue.

‘His shots are random and disinterested, as if nothing or everything could be a clue and it ain’t his job to figure out which is which.’  -- love this.

Coroner/Medical Examiner - same character?

p.42 - the whole ‘then find him’ - to me this seemed a bit of a leap - at least at this point.  If they knew about the carving then perhaps they’d have more incentive - but that doesn’t come till later.  Do you need it?  It never comes to anything.

p.45 - the ‘He burst...etc.’ paragraph needs a look.

p.58 - would they not want to separate Stevie and Valenzuela before questioning them?  They’re giving out details of their investigation (being seen by the Addict and the transcript), would detectives show their hand like that without first ensuring an arrest and questioning suspects individually?  Not to mention they’re putting their witness at risk by not making an arrest.

p.77 - lunches/launches?

Pablo Sanchez?  Seems important - did I miss something?

Really, an inconvenient gun jam..?

Good luck with this (and the others entered into the comps etc.).  Again, this is all just opinion and preference so take it with a pinch of salt.    

Steve  

Steve: - thanks so much for the full read and the notes. Truly appreciated.

Quoted from stevemiles Dave, Thought I’d check out the first ten or so and this pretty much held my interest to the end. Great start - foreshadowing the Ranger grandson and the appearance of the gang worked to pull me in - there was no way I couldn’t not want to see where this was leading.

Well, that's good news. I had you for awhile anyway.

Quoted Text I was kind of surprised when you spun this away from Gabriel to frame the story around Anna and the investigation.  You threw the goal of the lottery ticket front and centre at the outset and pulled all these opposing characters into place - really putting Gabriel in the thick of it.  But from there it turned into more of a police procedural and that initial momentum (or moreover pressure on Gabriel) stalled as Anna tried to work out who killed Esperanza.   That no-one but Gabriel and Huck (which doesn’t factor in till late) know of the ticket’s existence left that whole angle with little room to develop.  No-one’s chasing the money and Gabriel's left somewhat sidelined with Double V and his gang in the frame for the killing.  Gabriel (and Huck’s) motivations were left rather thin - just simple greed.  I wonder if that’s enough?

Well, at least you were surprised. That is a good thing. I do appreciate your thoughts here as I have probably for 3 or 4 versions of this story and have battled over which way to go. One even involves a fast forward 10 years later where Gabriel, now rich and a community leader has that life unraveled when Esperanza's cold case is re-opened. Another has Esperanza found dead in the opening and the Gabriel murder for the ticket scene is in the form of flashback at the end. All of these have some chinks in the armor and I wrestled over which way to go. For me, I landed on the most interesting one - but I can certainly see alternatives say I really went back and forth myself.  

Quoted Text Some surprise choices - Pablo’s Ranger character didn’t go where I expected (I thought he’d be more pivotal to this).

He's not in a lot of scenes - but he was pivotal being the only person other than Huck would knew about the numbers.

Quoted Text And then killing off Gabriel threw me through a loop.  Not in a bad way, but with Double V in the frame for Esperanza’s murder and no mention of the lottery ticket (that no-one on the surface of the story knows about) around p.75 there’s little to drive the story forward aside from finding Gabriel’s murderer - which given his actions I’m not all that sympathetic to.

Again - glad you were surprised. Again - I have/will wrestle with alternatives.

Quoted Text I’m not a fan of the climax.  You build to the reveal with Huck but in order to pull it off you’re left with having to explain how he did it via a 7 page chunk of flashback/exposition.  The logic is pretty tight.  The hows and whys I can get with (maybe a little more ‘why’ on Huck’s part - why risk it?), but execution wise if I were watching this unfold on screen I’d be left pretty underwhelmed.  Really surprised Huck went out in handcuffs - though I suspect most writers would have opted for a violent end, so I respect you took it someplace else.

Sorry it didn't grab you. I did think Huck going out in a shoot out would have been too typical. I think you raise a valid point on Huck's motivation. Greed may not be enough. Will mull that over,

Quoted Text The way this unfolded put me in mind of a TV police drama.  Don’t get me wrong, between the characters (main and secondary), sharp dialogue and writing it’s a pleasure to read; perhaps a little description heavy here and there but it works to paint the scene/characters.  Plot wise I’m torn as outlined above.  Huck’s a decent twist, but I struggled with the way it was handled.  What if you didn’t hide his deceit?

If you were not surprised that Huck did it - then there is a problem. If you were surprised - then I think I'm okay. I really think if I lay out where that lottery ticket ends up up front then I lose the suspense of the story. But certainly will consider your point of view in the re-write.

Quoted Text It’s a matter of taste and I think my expectations from the premise and set-up suggested this would unfold with a lot more conflict as characters clash over the money.  In the end this is more about the characters and the emotional impact of people’s choices - it's a lot more subtle, so kudos for that.

In one of the versions I mentioned -above - where Pablo becomes rich - he doesn't start out as a drug addict. He's just wants to do well and is over come by the greed of the moment. The money - while making him wealthy and respected, destroys his family and ultimately - when it is discovered what the source of the money was - his own life. Think you may have enjoyed that version better. I am trying to recover it (lost in an accidental over write of the file - i.e., saved one version of the story over another version).

Quoted Text There’s hints at a deeper theme here - at the nature of hope (‘Esperanza’, the lottery etc.).  I guess Pablo’s lucky, in a way - in surviving his injury.  I’m not sure how or if it relates to Anna?  I’m not sure what you intended to say there - maybe I’m not digging deep enough?  Interested to get your take on that.

See above - think I have spoken to most of that. What I am least satisfied with in this script is what happens to Anna - I do think there is something missing there.

NOTES:

Quoted Text P.14 - ‘...as he carves the letter “V” with the knife in his right hand.’  I’m guessing it’s her head but on first glance it reads like he’s carving it in his own hand.

Based on your comment I changed it to:

"With the washcloth covering his left hand, Gabriel holds Esperanza’s chin as he carves the letter “V” in her forehead."

I think that's better - thanks.  

Quoted Text Do you need the Postwoman scene of her finding Esperanza?  Could just be referenced in dialogue.

I think so. I like that it reinforces the fact that Esperanza was so alone, a post woman (rather than family of friends) found her body.

Quoted Text ‘His shots are random and disinterested, as if nothing or everything could be a clue and it ain’t his job to figure out which is which.’  -- love this.

thanks

Quoted Text Coroner/Medical Examiner - same character?

No - they're to different people.

Quoted Text p.42 - the whole ‘then find him’ - to me this seemed a bit of a leap - at least at this point.  If they knew about the carving then perhaps they’d have more incentive - but that doesn’t come till later.  Do you need it?  It never comes to anything.

It was meant to foreshadow that Double V had a more than normal interest in Esperanza - revealed later that her son was a member of Double V's gang and that no one was going to get away with killing one of their own. It may be too subtle though. I will consider your suggesion to delete here.

Quoted Text p.45 - the ‘He burst...etc.’ paragraph needs a look.

Has been fixed along with a mess of typos - couldn't submit an update due to the freeze because of the OWC.  

Quoted Text p.58 - would they not want to separate Stevie and Valenzuela before questioning them?  They’re giving out details of their investigation (being seen by the Addict and the transcript), would detectives show their hand like that without first ensuring an arrest and questioning suspects individually?  Not to mention they’re putting their witness at risk by not making an arrest.

Damn - that's a good point. I'll need to rework that.

Quoted Text p.77 - lunches/launches?

lunges

Quoted Text Pablo Sanchez?  Seems important - did I miss something?

Typo - fixed in the update.

Quoted Text Really, an inconvenient gun jam..?

Okay - you got me there. I stared at that page for a day - how the hell is he going to get the upper hand and settled on the old gun jam trope so I could move forward. It definitely needs something different.

Quoted Text Good luck with this (and the others entered into the comps etc.).  Again, this is all just opinion and preference so take it with a pinch of salt.

Again - thanks for the read and taking time to write out your comments - a great service to me and really appreciated.

Dave,

Fair enough on Pablo knowing Esperanza’s numbers - I’d forgotten that.  I did like that Double V’s connection to her was of a different nature - that of helping her.

Huck’s involvement was a surprise.  At the point of Gabriel’s murder I really had no idea where this was heading.  Him killing Gabriel and turning on Anna when she finds out feels like it could have more substance.  Perhaps understanding him (and/or their relationship) a little better could go some way.  It’s a huge betrayal, but it comes across as rather matter-of-fact.    

Let me know if you ever recover the other draft, I’d be down to take a look.  I’ve done a similar thing - saving a rewrite over an older draft.  Luckily I email myself a PDF copy every now and then as back-up - still had to copy/paste and re-format the whole thing into Celtex from PDF.  It ain’t fun.

All the best,

Steve

Quoted Text Huck’s involvement was a surprise.  At the point of Gabriel’s murder I really had no idea where [quote]this was heading.  Him killing Gabriel and turning on Anna when she finds out feels like it could have more substance.  Perhaps understanding him (and/or their relationship) a little better could go some way.  It’s a huge betrayal, but it comes across as rather matter-of-fact.

I got the typos fixed and am waiting to get that up - but the uploads are still locked. In terms of the above - I am making notes - including yours and others for the next draft and two items I want to address relate to your comment above and apply to both Gabriel and Huck. I think there needs to be more than just mere greed there to justify their actions. Working on this:

Gabe being in huge debt with a drug dealer who is now threatening him and his family if he don't pay. He gets the last threatening call just before he gets the call from Esperanza.  

Think of adding a gambling problem for Huck.

Anyway - playing around with those two themes.  

Quoted Text Let me know if you ever recover the other draft, I’d be down to take a look.  I’ve done a similar thing - saving a rewrite over an older draft.  Luckily I email myself a PDF copy every now and then as back-up - still had to copy/paste and re-format the whole thing into Celtex from PDF.  It ain’t fun.

Yeah - this was so irritating. Not only did I lay it over on my hard drive - but being the careful back-up person I am - layed it over the file on my thumb drive right the fok after that. Arrgh.

Thanks again

Dave, only read the 1st 10 pages so far but based on those and the comments, it seems you may have something special here.

I have a couple of suggestions.

1. Opening scene. Why not start with credits over images that set up the movie?
Something like...As credits roll - we see a poor, gang-infested area before ending up at Esperanza's home. Her tiny kitchen- emptying can of refried beans into a pot on the stove. In the living room, the Lotto on TV, the picture of her grandson nearby next to one of Jesus, her Lotto ticket on the table. Shots like that. Utilize the irony of a someone whose "luck" is about to change."  End credits on the TV and ping pong balls spitting out the winning numbers.  A lot revealed without a word said.

2. Lotto computer tracks and notifies where winning tickets were bought. So the store would know it sold the winning ticket. The next day I believe. They also get an amount equal to something like 10%.

3.  That brings us to other flaw I see in your 10 pages... the camera at the liquor store. He finds out after considering murder? Too convenient.

He needs to find out before.

4.  That's why I had Esperanza in the kitchen during opening credits. Maybe Gabriel visits the winning store BEFORE the call.

5. Since you show the murder, I think the 1st ten pages should focus on Gabriel. He needs and his contemplations.

We should see how and why he'd consider murder and how things seem to fall in place.
A. I assume he needs money - show that. Then...
B. He visits liquor store to check out their celebrating and happens to notice that camera doesn't work.
C. A day or so later, he gets the call from Esperanza. She saw on news where winning ticket was sold?  Something like that. She also mentions she hasn't told anyone else.

He now knows, he's the only one that knowsshe has the winning Lotto ticket!  You've shown motive and opportunity just fell in his lap.

That give Gabriel an emotional dilemma you should bring out... His internal debate. He should seem uncertain IMO. That is until he's actually holding the Lotto ticket in his hands.  That create the moment he either has to kill her or hand it back to her.

Well that's my 2 cents so far. I'll read the rest this weekend.

JohnN

Quoted from JohnN Dave, only read the 1st 10 pages so far but based on those and the comments, it seems you may have something special here.

Thanks, buddy - always appreciate a read.

Quoted Text 1. Opening scene. Why not start with credits over images that set up the movie? Something like...As credits roll - we see a poor, gang-infested area before ending up at Esperanza's home. Her tiny kitchen- emptying can of refried beans into a pot on the stove. In the living room, the Lotto on TV, the picture of her grandson nearby next to one of Jesus, her Lotto ticket on the table. Shots like that. Utilize the irony of a someone whose "luck" is about to change."  End credits on the TV and ping pong balls spitting out the winning numbers.  A lot revealed without a word said.

I don't ever do the credit over images as I figure the director can figure that out. But your ideas on the set-up are definitely worth considering.  They would be compelling images. I'm tweaking the story right now - definitely might use this.

Quoted Text 2. Lotto computer tracks and notifies where winning tickets were bought. So the store would know it sold the winning ticket. The next day I believe. They also get an amount equal to something like 10%.

That is correct. The store is announced the next day It is revealed in a newscast on page 16.

Quoted Text 3.  That brings us to other flaw I see in your 10 pages... the camera at the liquor store. He finds out after considering murder? Too convenient. He needs to find out before.

Don't agree here. Retailers are not required to have cameras in the first place. I think the plot point is fine - when he sees the liquor store he has an ah shit moment that maybe they recorded it - checks it out just in case. As a side note - the scene is on the potential chopping block - I am leaning to deleting it entirely and just not referencing a camera at all.

Quoted Text 4.  That's why I had Esperanza in the kitchen during opening credits. Maybe Gabriel visits the winning store BEFORE the call.

You mean, wait an hour before calling Esperanza back so he could check out the liquor store first??

Quoted Text 5. Since you show the murder, I think the 1st ten pages should focus on Gabriel. He needs and his contemplations.

Concur here and have something in the works.

Quoted Text We should see how and why he'd consider murder and how things seem to fall in place. A. I assume he needs money - show that. Then... B. He visits liquor store to check out their celebrating and happens to notice that camera doesn't work. C. A day or so later, he gets the call from Esperanza. She saw on news where winning ticket was sold?  Something like that. She also mentions she hasn't told anyone else.

I appreciate the thoughts - but am not a fan of the above approach.

Overall - very grateful for your feedback, John and for taking the effort to share your thoughts - damn nice of you.

Okay - got some changes made based on the feedback received here - again, thanks to all. I am now headed off for a well deserved vacation with the wife (Panama Canal cruise) where I will break from the writing and enjoy drinks and gambling. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Again - thanks to all for the helpful comments.

Okay, here's some notes. I know it took awhile but when you see the sheer volume of rambling you'll wish I never did them in the first place.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o87nwie571o75gz/laloteria.pdf?dl=0