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Don
Posted: April 7th, 2019, 10:24am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Rising by Michael Brendan - Drama - Twenty years after surviving a high school shooting, a newspaper reporter returns to his upstate New York hometown to do a follow-up article in the hopes that connecting with other survivors will help him come to terms with the tragedy. 108 pages - pdf format

Writer interested in feedback on this work



Visit SimplyScripts.com for what is new on the site.

-------------
You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
- Wayne Gretzky

Revision History (1 edits)
Don  -  May 18th, 2019, 8:55am
revised draft
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Night_Writer
Posted: May 18th, 2019, 9:40pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for posting the revision, Don.

Made a few corrections, tightened the story, shaved seven pages off.


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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SAC
Posted: July 18th, 2019, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
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Michael,

Very well written and expertly told. I loved the ending although we’ve seen it before. Characters were well drawn and equal parts sympathetic and detestable when needed. One thing I think you could have thrown in would be some sparse humor. Every good drama has its moments, and although there is nothing funny about the story, I feel a chuckle or two would do to lighten the mood.

Your descriptions were excellent, and just when I thought you’d go too far and start overwriting you would pull it back. You have a knack for it.

I am surprised this didn’t make Page quarter finals. I certainly feel it’s good enough, but perhaps you were right about the subject, sad to say. It’s worthy.

One minor thing that bugged me, though. You use the word “crosses” an awful lot. He crosses to the kitchen, she crosses to the porch, etc. I understand you shouldn’t use the word walk frequently but it just seems like you replaced it with crosses.

I know you wanted Granger to come off as unfeeling and unemotional, but I think you overdid it to the point that almost every time he pops up you feel the need to mention it. Still, fact is, he wasn’t entirely unemotional or unfeeling. Perhaps a
Flashback to when he and Stanley were young? Maybe not. I dunno. But we also come to feel his pain, and I would have liked to see exactly what pushed him over the edge.



I certainly think this would look good on film, however, personally, I feel it’s missing something. I think it’s that there’s

The same with Stanley to a degree. He’s kept all of this pain and anguish internalized. Perhaps during the “sparing his life scene” we could get a little dialogue between the two. A nod of Grangers head. And I hate to say it, perhaps show us through Stanley’s POV what kind of carnage he’s seeing because surely that would have added to Stanley’s decision to internalize. Not saying I want blood and guts, but I would like the reveal to have more of a kick to the gut.

Anyway, I’m glad I read this. You’re a fine writer!

Steve


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Night_Writer
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Steve,

THANK YOU so much for the read and the review!  Words cannot express my gratitude for the time you've taken.  I really appreciate it.


Quoted from SAC

One thing I think you could have thrown in would be some sparse humor. Every good drama has its moments, and although there is nothing funny about the story, I feel a chuckle or two would do to lighten the mood.


Agreed.  I attempted to throw in a couple unusual moments to break up the inherently heavy material (the scene in the Cessna with the pilot who may... or may not be particularly good at flying) but I agree, and will try to work something into the next rewrite.


Quoted from SAC

One minor thing that bugged me, though. You use the word �crosses� an awful lot. He crosses to the kitchen, she crosses to the porch, etc. I understand you shouldn�t use the word walk frequently but it just seems like you replaced it with crosses.


Absolutely.  Thank you for pointing that out.  That's a bad habit of mine... to utilize a word/phrase I've gotten too comfortable with.  I'll mix that up a little.


Quoted from SAC
I know you wanted Granger to come off as unfeeling and unemotional, but I think you overdid it to the point that almost every time he pops up you feel the need to mention it. Still, fact is, he wasn�t entirely unemotional or unfeeling. Perhaps a
Flashback to when he and Stanley were young? Maybe not. I dunno. But we also come to feel his pain, and I would have liked to see exactly what pushed him over the edge.


Yeah, this was something I really struggled with.  It's also the element that garners the most criticism.  People tell me they NEED to understand why Jason does what he does.  But is that possible?  Is an answer THAT clear?  As a writer, I feel like I have to tread lightly here.  If I try to assign a specific reason he shot up the school, I feel like I'm venturing into territory that's uncharted for a reason...

For example, if I say "he did it solely because he was bullied," that could come off like I'm justifying acts committed by real-life shooters.  (I think that's why Gus Van Sant didn't try to explain the killers' motivations in "Elephant.")  In the end, I thought the most appropriate way to go was NOT to assign a reason behind his actions.  

In addition, the "sparing his life" moment was Stanley's own personal conclusion.  The  fundamental truth is... we still don't know what truly pushed Jason over the edge.

I'm not saying my approach was the right one.  Just trying to explain why I crafted the story the way I did.


Quoted from SAC
I certainly think this would look good on film, however, personally, I feel it�s missing something. I think it�s that there�s


Was there something else here?  Or are you teasing me at this point?  LOL.


Quoted from SAC
The same with Stanley to a degree. He�s kept all of this pain and anguish internalized. Perhaps during the �sparing his life scene� we could get a little dialogue between the two. A nod of Grangers head. And I hate to say it, perhaps show us through Stanley�s POV what kind of carnage he�s seeing because surely that would have added to Stanley�s decision to internalize. Not saying I want blood and guts, but I would like the reveal to have more of a kick to the gut.


Good point.  I'll take a closer look at this.


Quoted from SAC
Anyway, I�m glad I read this. You�re a fine writer!

Steve


As are you!  Thanks again for taking the time to read it.  I know how valued a commodity time is, and I am forever grateful you made time to help me with my work.  I look forward to reading more of your work.  I'm now trying to finish up a science fiction script--a "loose re-imagining" of the 1987 thriller THE HIDDEN, if you can believe that--but upon completion of that script's first draft, I will immediately come back to this one and your insight will help tremendously with the rewrite.

Thanks again!

--Mike


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf

Revision History (5 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Night_Writer  -  July 18th, 2019, 11:55pm
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SAC
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 4:54am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Mike,

A couple more things.

The airplane/time scene. Wasn’t that line used in Clear and Present Danger? 😉 I wanted to mention that before but couldn’t think of it. Not saying it’s in bad taste, I lift obscure things sometimes too.

Also, have you gotten coverage on this? It might cost a couple bucks but it could help you market this if the response is good. If the response is not stellar, just another set of notes
To work from.

Showing my age here, but The Hidden was one of my favorite movies back in the day! Loved it.

Steve


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LC
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Quoted from SAC
I certainly think this would look good on film, however, personally, I feel it’s missing something. I think it’s that there’s ???  

Steve, I'm also curious what the end of this sentence in the critique was...?


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SAC
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 5:45am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Libby, I honestly can’t remember at the moment but if I do I will post it.


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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted Text
Yeah, this was something I really struggled with.  It's also the element that garners the most criticism.  People tell me they NEED to understand why Jason does what he does.  But is that possible?  Is an answer THAT clear?  As a writer, I feel like I have to tread lightly here.  If I try to assign a specific reason he shot up the school, I feel like I'm venturing into territory that's uncharted for a reason...

For example, if I say "he did it solely because he was bullied," that could come off like I'm justifying acts committed by real-life shooters.  (I think that's why Gus Van Sant didn't try to explain the killers' motivations in "Elephant.")  In the end, I thought the most appropriate way to go was NOT to assign a reason behind his actions.


Your characters are people, and people have their own personal motivations (Doesn't matter if we agree/disagree - the motivation is real to the character) people are rarely evil for the sake of being evil, there are issues behind them - If you omit it, you are probably omitting an important layer of characterization.

Don't be afraid to tackle the tough issues - Showing us his motivations/feelings/mindset is not the same as justifying them. I.E the audience can understand how he got to this point, but don't sympathize with them.
You can also use it to highlight social or societal issues - so not just vanilla bullying, but maybe social media bullying - no one accepts his friend requests, or follow on Twitter, or swipe right on tinder - highlight social media addiction and the rising trend of young people tying their self worth with how many "followers" they have - (this is just an example, I haven't read your screenplay so no idea what time period it is set in)

Law Abiding Citizen - we understand Clyde's motivations, his family was killed and one of the killers was set free due to the unjust and broken legal system. We don't agree with his actions in killing anyone involved in the legal system, but we understand why.

Thanos - Ultimate bad guy who commits repeated genocides. But his motivation is that the population of the universe has grown too big for its finite resources, unsustainable and will ultimately end all life. That's understandable, and in Thanos's mind it's morally right - even if we don't agree that killing half the population is right, we can understand why Thanos thinks it is.
(again, touches on societal issues of Earth's overcrowding)

I'm going on too much - and what I'm saying is probably a load of bull anyway lol

Point is - don't make your characters 1 dimensional, even the bad guys.


Feature

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2) Fix it
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SAC
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 6:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Your characters are people, and people have their own personal motivations (Doesn't matter if we agree/disagree - the motivation is real to the character) people are rarely evil for the sake of being evil, there are issues behind them - If you omit it, you are probably omitting an important layer of characterization.

Don't be afraid to tackle the tough issues - Showing us his motivations/feelings/mindset is not the same as justifying them. I.E the audience can understand how he got to this point, but don't sympathize with them.
You can also use it to highlight social or societal issues - so not just vanilla bullying, but maybe social media bullying - no one accepts his friend requests, or follow on Twitter, or swipe right on tinder - highlight social media addiction and the rising trend of young people tying their self worth with how many "followers" they have - (this is just an example, I haven't read your screenplay so no idea what time period it is set in)

Law Abiding Citizen - we understand Clyde's motivations, his family was killed and one of the killers was set free due to the unjust and broken legal system. We don't agree with his actions in killing anyone involved in the legal system, but we understand why.

Thanos - Ultimate bad guy who commits repeated genocides. But his motivation is that the population of the universe has grown too big for its finite resources, unsustainable and will ultimately end all life. That's understandable, and in Thanos's mind it's morally right - even if we don't agree that killing half the population is right, we can understand why Thanos thinks it is.
(again, touches on societal issues of Earth's overcrowding)

I'm going on too much - and what I'm saying is probably a load of bull anyway lol

Point is - don't make your characters 1 dimensional, even the bad guys.


I agree. Perhaps what I was trying to think of was something along the lines of what Matthew is saying. Granger does feel one dimensional in the respects to the way you describe him as always cold and unfeeling. He had a best friend (Stanley) and he had a love interest.

I say add back those seven pages you trimmed and expand on that perhaps. It seems every other character has multiple layers so why not Granger?

By the way, not to be morbid, but the way Granger disposed of his love interest was intense! I’d hold that beat for a few sentences longer. It was good.

Steve


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Night_Writer
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Quoted from SAC

The airplane/time scene. Wasn’t that line used in Clear and Present Danger? 😉 I wanted to mention that before but couldn’t think of it. Not saying it’s in bad taste, I lift obscure things sometimes too.


I knew I had heard that line somewhere but I couldn't quite remember where, so I thought I was safe lifting it.  LOL.


Quoted from StevenClark
Also, have you gotten coverage on this? It might cost a couple bucks but it could help you market this if the response is good. If the response is not stellar, just another set of notes
To work from.


I'll consider it, though YOUR notes were QUITE helpful.


Quoted from SAC
Showing my age here, but The Hidden was one of my favorite movies back in the day! Loved it.


Showing YOUR age?  Hell, man, I'M the one devoting otherwise valuable time to writing a re-imagined version of it.  LOL.

--Mike


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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Night_Writer
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Your characters are people, and people have their own personal motivations (Doesn't matter if we agree/disagree - the motivation is real to the character) people are rarely evil for the sake of being evil, there are issues behind them - If you omit it, you are probably omitting an important layer of characterization.

Don't be afraid to tackle the tough issues - Showing us his motivations/feelings/mindset is not the same as justifying them. I.E the audience can understand how he got to this point, but don't sympathize with them.
You can also use it to highlight social or societal issues - so not just vanilla bullying, but maybe social media bullying - no one accepts his friend requests, or follow on Twitter, or swipe right on tinder - highlight social media addiction and the rising trend of young people tying their self worth with how many "followers" they have - (this is just an example, I haven't read your screenplay so no idea what time period it is set in)

Law Abiding Citizen - we understand Clyde's motivations, his family was killed and one of the killers was set free due to the unjust and broken legal system. We don't agree with his actions in killing anyone involved in the legal system, but we understand why.

Thanos - Ultimate bad guy who commits repeated genocides. But his motivation is that the population of the universe has grown too big for its finite resources, unsustainable and will ultimately end all life. That's understandable, and in Thanos's mind it's morally right - even if we don't agree that killing half the population is right, we can understand why Thanos thinks it is.
(again, touches on societal issues of Earth's overcrowding)

I'm going on too much - and what I'm saying is probably a load of bull anyway lol

Point is - don't make your characters 1 dimensional, even the bad guys.


Here's the thing, guys.  The point was never to make Jason Granger evil, but to make him a mystery.  An enigma.  A puzzle.  There are scenes showing him getting rejected by a girl, showing the aftermath of being beat up.  But in those scenes, he never displayed emotion.  He held any kind of rational human emotional response at bay to a point where the ultimate release was a horrific act.  He was never depicted as being evil just to be evil.  (Sure, Henry Pickering made that assertion at one point, but that's coming from a man who lost his daughter in the attack.)

I get what you're saying, Matt.  But I struggle a little with the examples you cite.  "Avengers: Infinity War" was an action-laden comic book adventure.  "Law Abiding Citizen" was a nail-biting thriller.  To me, this story is not about Jason Granger.  It's a love story between two people who have drifted apart because they've never found the way to process the horror each one faced.  It's about a mother (Marilyn Granger) struggling to come to terms with her son's actions.  About a teacher (Raymond Thompson) and his supportive-yet-guilt-ridden wife whose lives were altered in the blink of an eye.  About a father (Henry Pickering), struggling not only with his daughter's death, but with his own alienation resulting from feelings and views he possessed long before any shooting took place.  About an embittered man (Scott Billuck) dealing not only with his anger about what happened, but battling destructive behavior stemming from guilt and self-loathing.  In my opinion, each one of these personal struggles derive from an inability to comprehend the motivation at the center... the one who committed the act.  I'm a little concerned that putting too much focus on the shooter will undermine everything outlined in this paragraph.  I feel it may completely alter the trajectory of the story.

That being said, I respect the hell out of both you, Matt and you, Steve.  I'll definitely take what you're saying into consideration when I do the rewrite.

Heck, I'm not even sure if I'm making any sense.  (Just woke up.  LOL.). I just feel like it's not a story about Jason, but about those around him and how they may... or may not... be able to come to terms with what happened.

Or... as with Marilyn Granger, a struggle to "love fully... without full understanding."  (Steve... that's from "A River Runs Through It."  I DID remember that one.  God... I AM a bit of a hack, aren't I?  LOL)

--Mike


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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Matthew Taylor
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I haven't read your script - So I don't know what it is about (I can't commit to reading a feature at the moment) - I was only going off your comment about how motivation could be seen to justify an atrocity (So maybe take my comment as general, and not specific to this script)

If the script is not about Jason, but instead the lives of those the act affected - then yea, don't put too much emphasis on Jason - I assumed the script was about him.





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Night_Writer
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Below is an except from the late Roger Ebert's review of "Elephant."  I didn't always agree with Roger, though I do agree on his point below.  This may help to explain my reservations with regard to the aforementioned suggestions regarding the character of Jason Granger...


Quoted Text
Gus Van Sant's "Elephant" is a record of a day at a high school like Columbine, on the day of a massacre much like the one that left 13 dead. It offers no explanation for the tragedy, no insights into the psyches of the killers, no theories about teenagers or society or guns or psychopathic behavior. It simply looks at the day as it unfolds, and that is a brave and radical act; it refuses to supply reasons and assign cures.

Van Sant seems to believe there are no reasons for Columbine and no remedies to prevent senseless violence from happening again. Many viewers will leave this film as unsatisfied and angry as Variety's Todd McCarthy, who wrote after it won the Golden Palm at Cannes 2003 that it was "pointless at best and irresponsible at worst." I think its responsibility comes precisely in its refusal to provide a point.


Perhaps I fell short of expectations, but this was how I wanted to present the character of Jason.  Not as evil.  But as a heartbreaking enigma to those who love him and a source of bafflement and fury to those who don't.  

I dunno.  I'll take another look at the script soon.  Thanks for the input, guys!


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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LC
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I'm inclined to agree that not everything needs to be or should necessarily be explained.

Seen this one?

We Need To Talk About Kevin
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1242460/
Based on the novel by Lionel Shriver.

Really heavy film...
The good news is that films like this do get made.

Nature/nurture, bad seed/ innate evil. Does the motive always matter?
The story is primarily about the fallout isn't it?
...
Steve, your incomplete sentence just made me, and Mike mighty curious.
Seems a case of train of thought racing and not keeping time with the keyboard. Happens to me all the time.  


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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from LC
I'm inclined to agree that not everything needs to be or should necessarily be explained.

Seen this one?

We Need To Talk About Kevin
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1242460/
Based on the novel by Lionel Shriver.

Really heavy film...
The good news is that films like this do get made.

Nature/nurture, bad seed/ innate evil. Does the motive always matter?
The story is primarily about the fallout isn't it?


Granted, I haven't seen 'We Need to Talk About Kevin' since it came out, but isn't the theme of that movie all about motive? Not so much the answer, but definitely the question - Why? a moment of bad parenting?  a sense of being unloved as a child? or, unalterably evil.

Elephant on the other hand (I didn't like this movie, but apparently it has some good reviews so I am probably in the minority) touched on nothing, there was no point to it I could find other than to show a school shooting for the sake of it.

Anyway - I was originally only trying to touch on Mike's comment about shying away from the motivation for fear of making it look like a justification for evil acts - and wanted to express that can hinder characterization and to not be afraid of tackling these things.
I have no idea if it's relevant to this story - I feel inclined to read this thing now lol


Feature

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1) Write a bad one
2) Fix it
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