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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Dramedy Scripts  ›  The Last Statesman
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  Author    The Last Statesman  (currently 11734 views)
Don
Posted: August 1st, 2014, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Last Statesman by David Lambertson (eldave1) - Comedy - An old, cantankerous politician facing a terminal illness has had it with the bureaucratic constraints of politics as usual. He fights back by becoming unusual.  114 pages - pdf, format

Writer interested in feedback on this work



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-------------
You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
- Wayne Gretzky

Revision History (8 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  April 29th, 2018, 11:36am
revised draft
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eldave1
Posted: August 4th, 2014, 10:04am Report to Moderator
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A political comedy - Kind of Network meets The Candidate


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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c m hall
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I'm bothered because I think this could be a much better script than it is.

There is certainly some humor in the dialogue.  And there's smooth, intelligent writing.

However, in my opinion, you need to convey the messages that you want without the tedium of actual speechmaking.  





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c m hall  -  August 4th, 2014, 7:49pm
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eldave1
Posted: August 4th, 2014, 8:53pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the feedback CM - much appreciated


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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rendevous
Posted: August 4th, 2014, 9:04pm Report to Moderator
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Starting your script with a series of photos isn't the best idea. This type of thing does often happen in films and pro scripts. But you have to bear in mind you're writing a spec script. If you're not, my apologies.

It would be better to introduce character(s) first so the reader would have an idea who the people in the photographs are. Otherwise their meaning is lost on the reader, who'll have forgotten them as soon as they've read it.

It's not that you can't do it the way you have. I'm just saying it might be more effective the way I've said.

Some will be able to hear the sound of the pot calling a kettle here, but I'd trim down the dialogue. It would make the funny stuff funnier. As CM said above about the messages, avoid the speech making.

Your opening scene is two guys exchaging lines for five pages. This will put a lot off. Even Mamet would struggle to get away with it.

R


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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eldave1
Posted: August 4th, 2014, 11:46pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks R - will certainly consider these thoughts.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Guest
Posted: August 5th, 2014, 1:37am Report to Moderator
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R,

You are correct, a 5 page opener with people talking will most likely put people off - it usually bores me as well - but in this case I enjoyed it.  It's filled with such humor and more life than most similar openings.  The dialogue feels so natural it's kind of crazy.  We find out what type of guy Lowell is through his quick wit (and yes, you can show through dialogue) and it's blatantly obvious that Doctor and patient have been Doctor and patient for many, many years.  Everything was just so smooth.  If something comes off genuine and real enough, I'm more likely to give it a pass as opposed to a scene that's brutally on the fucking nose.  Of course, that's just me.

However, as we went further into the story, it felt like that "life" sort of sizzled out a bit, and I started to lose interest pretty fast.  I'm not saying that it became OTN, but it just didn't have the same oomph as the opening did.

As for Mamet, Glengarry Glenn Ross is a classic that I will bet money has many, many scenes that go over 5 pages long and they're all bad-fucking-ass.

Dave,

Just on your 5 page opening, I have faith in you as a writer.

Stick around, huh?

You can learn a lot.

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eldave1
Posted: August 5th, 2014, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the kind words Green any to everyone else who posted guidance. I am an older, retired fok now and took this up as something I always wanted to do when I was young - basically. I am very new to this.

This is where I am on the guidance - at least so far:

The montage opening was an effort to give the reader a sense of Lowell's 40 year career in just 4 or 5 bullets (something that would be background to the opening credits). While I think it accomplishes that, I can also see where it would be a distraction and I certainly don't want to lose someone on the very first page.

I think am a okay on 5 pages of dialogue as long as it as good dialogue. i.e., imo, one page of bad dialogue would suck and ten pages of great dialogue would be - well, great. So, I kind of took your and R's comments combined to mean this -  the length dedicated to any particular dialogue must be worth it based on the quality of the dialogue and it's contribution to the story that one is telling.   So, I'm going to go through line by line and make sure that each line contributes something that is needed in the most efficient way possible.

I am obviously getting derailed as the script goes on. I think CM is right in that Lowell becomes too "speechy" as the story moves forward - I think along the way I am losing Lowell's true voice. I am also thinking that it may bog down because I am introducing too many conflicts in the story. It could be that a man facing death is enough and that the other conflicts (i.e., the Governor race, The battle with Supervisor McKinney, the pending removal from office) are just too much for one story. Not positive - but I can certainly see that the story slows down. I will definitely look for changes.

I will definitely stay around here Green - came across this site by accident and think it is terrific. Again - thanks for the thoughts.
  


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DS
Posted: August 5th, 2014, 6:55pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Dave. Just read this - my thoughts/notes:

P9: INT: CLOSED SESSION CONFERENCE ROOM- LATER THAT DAY Use just "LATER"

P26: T: HAL'S PUB DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - NIGHT  Downtown los angeles is unneccessary. And you are missing an in in front of the t.


P30: LOWELL
Well, for one, you're breasts are
too large. Ever think about that?

Your*

P32: Will you please put take it off and
put on a nice suit.


I reckon the put before take is a typo.

P34: A dot missing after "There are
many other gaps in the program"

P40: People in the audience start making there way to the doors. Their*

P47: Baker and the Governor discussing Lowell's latest behavior -
plan a trip to LA

? Did you accidentally leave a note in there?

An MRI doesn't take 30 minutes.

P49: All of these parentheticals seem superfluous. The (to)'s are obvious enough based on the dialogue.

P50: Mistake in slug line. - is straight after EXT.

INT: INSIDE RESTAURANT - DAY is also wrong. There is no need for "inside". You have also mentioned it as DOWNTOWN RESTAURANT already. Don't change the name of locations in slug lines, otherwise the reader will get confused.

P51: Superfluous parenthetical again. The dialogue makes it clear enough.

P56: You're instead of your in Supervisor Jordan's first dialogue on the page. "DO" should be "Do".

P68: EXT: CITY TERRACE PARK, LOS ANGELES - DAY Is Los Angeles really necessary here?

The block of text here could also be divided into multiple lines to make a smoother read.

P71:
KAREN
Put you're belt on.


Your*

Isn't INT: BACK HALLWAY LEADING TO THE BOARD HEARING ROOM - DAY
what you earlier referenced as INT. INFRONT OF THE BOARD HEARING ROOM

Once again blocks of text here that could be divided into multiple lines.

P72: INT: LA COUNTY BOARD HEARING ROOM - DAY This was earlier referenced as

P73: You have voice from intercom, into the intercom and from the intercom. Just mention it once and keep going with the (O.S).

P74: A malignant tumor*?

P79: INT: LOBBY OUTSIDE SUPERVISOR MCKINNEY OFFICE - DAY MCKINNEY'S*

P84: You should be using something in the likes of ON TV SCREEN:/INSERT TV SCREEN: here instead of INT: CNN NEWS STUDIO - NIGHT
. And instead of this INT: STEVEN BAKER'S RESIDENCE - NIGHT
afterwards just use BACK TO SCENE.

P85: A doorbell is heard* You have an extra a.

ATTENDANT changes to GOVERNOR's ATTENDANT. Never change a character name in a script.

P87: BAKER
Jason, anything that you're office
would do at this point would surely
be seen as favoritism.
Your*

P88: TESS
Robert, you we're saying.


Were*

P90: EXT: OUTSIDE COMMUNITY CENTER - DAY Don't need the outside. EXT. already establishes that.

P91: INT: SUPERVISOR JACKSON'S OFFICE- DAY Missing a space.

P93: KAREN
Yes, but there not all standing
here in this room at the moment.
Besides, why would you need a
signer?

They're*

P97: The (to Lowell) is superfluous here.


P102: INT: HALL OUTSIDE OF HEARING ROOM
I think this is the third name that hall is getting in slug lines.

P103: INT: INSIDE THE HOSPITAL ROOM - DAY
Remove the inside. Also hospital room/intensive care room don't really sound right. Intensive care unit and hospital ward.

P105: This scene would in my opinion work much better with an INSERT TV:/ON TV:.



Things I noticed throughout the script:

Continuity on slug lines. It is important for all slug lines to describe locations. Those locations need to have the same name throughout the script. The purpose for this is for the production crew to know exactly how many scenes happen in said location. Most screenwriting programs do this for you. Once you type INT./EXT. you can choose a scene that you've already used in the script. Also i'm not sure why you used a : behind int/ext, it should be a dot.

Parentheticals. I noticed quite a few that would work better as action lines. You also have (filter/on phone) formatted differently throughout the script. Sometimes it's behind the character name, sometimes it's as a parenthetical. I suggest having it as a parenthetical and (O.S) behind the character.

Characters having governor/supervisor in the dialogue. I think it would really contribute to an easier read here if they were just referenced as McKinney/Jordan etc.


Now to the story:

To start off, I'm also inclined to say that I wasn't fond of that starting montage of newspaper headlines in the beginning. I don't think it's necessary to establish his politician/cop career(s) right from the first page. All the important information is referenced in dialogue afterwards and I think it works better if we slowly get to know these things about Lowell.

I disagree with R here, I think the opening dialogue fits here. Especially because it is well written and establishes a very interesting doctor/patient relationship that you don't really see on the screen. The entire script has a lot of dialogue and I don't see that as a problem. You see it in a lot of political-themed stuff (Boss/Aaron Sorkin's series).

I liked the tone of the script you set. Good POV on today's media and politics.

I found Lowell's actions quite believable. I liked how there was more to it than just the tumor for his erratic behaviour. He let out his disappointment in the system, probably wanted to do something special.. for that kid who died/the community knowing that he might just as well not make it. Knowing that he has a tumor that is affecting his rationalism already he gets disappointed in the atmosphere of politics around him, wants to do something, make a mark. If his character wasn't too OTT at times this could be very well be described as a drama.


Quoted from "eldave1"
It could be that a man facing death is enough and that the other conflicts (i.e., the Governor race, The battle with Supervisor McKinney, the pending removal from office) are just too much for one story.


No. In my opinion all of these things work well in your script. They're plots that all tie together nicely while giving the reader a variety of plot conclusions to look forward to.

What I didn't like: Tess. She was just too much of a wifey, constantly worried about Lowell. Her nagging was OTT for me. How the character spoke was annoying and felt overacted theater-ish. I could almost picture her emoting with her hands staring at the ceiling during some of her dialogue. Let's take this for example:

TESS (CONT’D)
My goodness, you're smoking! What
on earth has gotten into you?
LOWELL
Don't fret about it. We're both too
old to get a long term illness.
TESS
(waving her hand at the
smoke as she sits down)
But oh, it smells so.
Lowell exhales forcefully watching the plume waft into the
night.
TESS (CONT’D)
What's wrong? What's swirling in
that head of yours?
LOWELL
Nothing, just feeling a bit odd

There just wasn't much else than the worrying/nagging to her character. I especially disliked her "Language, Lowell!" moments.

You have something promising here. Good luck with future drafts and welcome to the boards.
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eldave1
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Wow DS! Thanks a million for the detailed review on the typos - can't thank you enough - amazing how many times I can read something over and over and not notice the errors.

Your take on Tess is interesting. That's the first time I heard that and I think you're right - she needs to be a bit more grizzled. In fact, it might be more interesting if she was tougher than Lowell.

Looks like 2 out of 3 dislike the montage - it's nuked.

Thanks again.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
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Updated draft - made the recent BlueCat top ten percent but I fear it is doomed as I found MANY errors - oh well.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 21st, 2015, 1:12pm Report to Moderator
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Just read the first 5. Very impressive dialogue and a very believable doctor, for me it was anyway, not like I'm an expert. Loved the last line of dialogue where he looks at the clock and says 'Tick Tock.' He knows his time is ticking by. I like that type of character, rather than the mopy woe-is-me stuff. I've warmed to him straight away.

Glenda Jackson... is that intentional? I can't get her image out of my mind now. Well, at least she's an actress.

Really enjoying this so much I sailed into page 12. It was actually this sentence that has taken me out for a while to write this: Tess exits into the bedroom.

I know what you mean. It's awkward though. She could just walk in there, or maybe something else that describes her mood. She's probably a little old for sashaying, but perhaps she 'steps' or even, 'saunters'.


Jordan puts his cup of coffee to his nose and smells it. Finding no odor, he takes a sip. -- Very funny.

Page 30 and I'm assuming this is the journey into the second act now. I absolutely love Lowell. Very honest, forthright... an excellent character and I really like this script.

LOWELL Yes, sadly it seems I have Tourette's Syndrome. -- LOL.

Page 53... and I'm still thoroughly enjoying Lowell. I haven't read any reviews on this, but aside from perhaps a minor edit this is a very well told story. Not sure why anyone wouldn't like it.

LOWELL
Yes, thank you, George. Must of just been some ear wax
or something. Madam Chair, I have a question for Counsel
related to your motion.

Have just been, not, of just been.

I felt genuine distress when Tess went down. So unexpected. Very clever thing to do. All the time worrying about Lowell's health, and his wife suffers a minor stroke. I think it works really well.


LOWELL
And it's time. Time for me to be with your Mom, take care of her.
Someone's gotta keep the nurses in line. Make sure they're all
doing their job.

I love, Lowell.

Oh, wow. I expected everything to tie up nice and neatly... but Lowell dies, Jason lost the Governor race and McKinney won? I don't feel it is finished, or perhaps it is finished in the wrong manner. I'm totally shocked at your, very sudden, choice of ending. That final page is terrible. Not because of how it is written, but just your choices. I can't agree. There isn't any need to do that. Lowell can die, that's OK. I was kinda expecting that he would once he won. But McKinney cannot win too. That's bad... it leaves a really bad taste. The witness centre thing is all well and good and to be expected, even Lowell dying is OK. But we should get to see that. We've been with Lowell all the way through and then we don't get to see him die? Even just a deathbed scene would cut it. Maybe he gets to see his son win the Governor race on votes just before he passes.

Everything up to page 112 is pretty much perfect. Page 113, seems like you just stuck on an ending because you got bored of writing it or rushed to finish. It's an excellent story deserving of a proper ending. I don't think that it would hold this script back though as a director interested in making this would simply ask for a rewrite. That's the thing in this game... rewriting all the time isn't going to get you anywhere, people are either interested in making it or they're not. Doesn't matter how great the script is, they have to feel it is something they can see themselves making. I think I've written about 15 features so far. I do spend more time writing that trying to sell though. Waiting 2 months to hear back doesn't help either.

This script is ready to go, but it would be nice to have real ending on it.

Hope this helps.
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eldave1
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Just read the first 5. Very impressive dialogue and a very believable doctor, for me it was anyway, not like I'm an expert. Loved the last line of dialogue where he looks at the clock and says 'Tick Tock.' He knows his time is ticking by. I like that type of character, rather than the mopy woe-is-me stuff. I've warmed to him straight away.

Glenda Jackson... is that intentional? I can't get her image out of my mind now. Well, at least she's an actress.

Really enjoying this so much I sailed into page 12. It was actually this sentence that has taken me out for a while to write this: Tess exits into the bedroom.

I know what you mean. It's awkward though. She could just walk in there, or maybe something else that describes her mood. She's probably a little old for sashaying, but perhaps she 'steps' or even, 'saunters'.


Jordan puts his cup of coffee to his nose and smells it. Finding no odor, he takes a sip. -- Very funny.

Page 30 and I'm assuming this is the journey into the second act now. I absolutely love Lowell. Very honest, forthright... an excellent character and I really like this script.

LOWELL Yes, sadly it seems I have Tourette's Syndrome. -- LOL.

Page 53... and I'm still thoroughly enjoying Lowell. I haven't read any reviews on this, but aside from perhaps a minor edit this is a very well told story. Not sure why anyone wouldn't like it.

LOWELL
Yes, thank you, George. Must of just been some ear wax
or something. Madam Chair, I have a question for Counsel
related to your motion.

Have just been, not, of just been.

I felt genuine distress when Tess went down. So unexpected. Very clever thing to do. All the time worrying about Lowell's health, and his wife suffers a minor stroke. I think it works really well.


LOWELL
And it's time. Time for me to be with your Mom, take care of her.
Someone's gotta keep the nurses in line. Make sure they're all
doing their job.

I love, Lowell.

Oh, wow. I expected everything to tie up nice and neatly... but Lowell dies, Jason lost the Governor race and McKinney won? I don't feel it is finished, or perhaps it is finished in the wrong manner. I'm totally shocked at your, very sudden, choice of ending. That final page is terrible. Not because of how it is written, but just your choices. I can't agree. There isn't any need to do that. Lowell can die, that's OK. I was kinda expecting that he would once he won. But McKinney cannot win too. That's bad... it leaves a really bad taste. The witness centre thing is all well and good and to be expected, even Lowell dying is OK. But we should get to see that. We've been with Lowell all the way through and then we don't get to see him die? Even just a deathbed scene would cut it. Maybe he gets to see his son win the Governor race on votes just before he passes.

Everything up to page 112 is pretty much perfect. Page 113, seems like you just stuck on an ending because you got bored of writing it or rushed to finish. It's an excellent story deserving of a proper ending. I don't think that it would hold this script back though as a director interested in making this would simply ask for a rewrite. That's the thing in this game... rewriting all the time isn't going to get you anywhere, people are either interested in making it or they're not. Doesn't matter how great the script is, they have to feel it is something they can see themselves making. I think I've written about 15 features so far. I do spend more time writing that trying to sell though. Waiting 2 months to hear back doesn't help either.

This script is ready to go, but it would be nice to have real ending on it.

Hope this helps.


Dustin  - thanks for the review - very much appreciated and encouraging.  In terms of some of  the specific comments:

Glenda Jackson wasn't intentional. Didn't even think about it (but now I do I may change the character name.

"Tess exits into the bedroom" - Good catch - it is awkward because she is exiting into  a room rather than entering it.  I think I'll handle the action from Lowell's POV.  Something like:

Lowell watches as Tess returns to the bedroom......

"Have just been, not, of just been."  -- Good catch - thanks

On the Ending

Very interesting comments. My wife (and muse) said almost the same thing when she first read it - (I think her exact comment was - how dare you make them all losers

In terms of the specific ending here, it was an attempt not to be predictable rather than to have the right ending.  But I think you are right here - it does kind of drop off a cliff. I am going to write an alternative something akin to - SIX MONTHS LATER -  The winning governor is actually pushing a weakened but still very sarcastic and  ornery Lowell in a wheelchair pass the Witness Center - Cut back to Karen now in the Supervisor's role in the hearing room - cut back to Lowell and Jason at the Witness Center - once last sarcastic exchange before and a request for a smoke before Jason takes him back to Tess.

Thanks again - very helpful.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: June 22nd, 2015, 3:57am Report to Moderator
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Yeah, I understand what you mean about predictability, but sometimes that's just the way it has to go as that is the story's natural flow. I think the only thing wrong is that McKinney wins when you made him out to be the bad guy. The ending also seemed very abrupt. If Lowell is to die then it needs to be milked. He's such a powerful force throughout the script that if he is to die, I feel we deserve to see it after being invested with the character for so long.
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vancety
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Just read the first scene. Very refreshing and believable dialog. Maybe, just maybe the scene was a bit to long. In this case I felt like Tom Lazarus describes in Secrets of Film Writing:
"One-and-a-half-page scenes are great.
Two-pages scenes are good.
Tree-pages scenes are right on.
Four page scenes are suspect.
Five pages scenes are to long...."

I still liked the dialog on page 4 for but somehow I got inpatient. Was in need of some action...
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eldave1
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Quoted from vancety
Just read the first scene. Very refreshing and believable dialog. Maybe, just maybe the scene was a bit to long. In this case I felt like Tom Lazarus describes in Secrets of Film Writing:
"One-and-a-half-page scenes are great.
Two-pages scenes are good.
Tree-pages scenes are right on.
Four page scenes are suspect.
Five pages scenes are to long...."

I still liked the dialog on page 4 for but somehow I got inpatient. Was in need of some action...


First thanks for the read - much appreciated.

Can't say I agree with the formula you presented (above). However, I do agree that, any scene - regardless of length - needs to hold the reader's interest until the end of the scene.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 10th, 2015, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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For me 5 pages is the maximum I will go to. It's not too long, IMO.

Like other similar rules, they're fine in principle but are not set in stone.

We have to be aware too of these 'rules' affecting our judgement on what we read.
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eldave1
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
For me 5 pages is the maximum I will go to. It's not too long, IMO.

Like other similar rules, they're fine in principle but are not set in stone.

We have to be aware too of these 'rules' affecting our judgement on what we read.


Like you said - they're guidelines and the overarching one is to make each word - each page - each scene - meaningful. The OWC we just completed had a ton of scripts with 12 page scenes - that was just fine for what it was. I have read action based scripts with 1 or 2 page scenes that bore me to tears and dialogue heavy scripts with much longer scenes that kept my interest. I would concur that once your scene pages start to pile up - you better be extra careful to make sure it is not written in a manner that will cause readers to parachute out of your script.




My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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vancety
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Page 5/6
A large, ornate auditorium with nearly a thousand seats. A few dozen people are scattered in the first few rows.

A large elevated dais is at the front of the hearing room.   Lowell and four other Los Angeles County Supervisors sit in large, high back, leather chairs.

Page 6:

Show us that she’s “prim and proper” - behaves in a very formal and correct - by your dialog and/or action lines. Or if her clothes are prim and proper, describe “what” she wears so we can conclude that ourselves.

Page 8

Jackson SLAMS her GAVEL.

“When capitalizing for sound effects and off-screen sound, always capitalize both the thing making the sound and the sound it makes. (The Hollywood Standard - Christopher Riley)

Page 9:

Karen Mendoza TAPS on the DOOR of the conference and opens it half way.   But if we don’t hear his “tap”, don’t cap "tap" and "door"..
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eldave1
Posted: July 12th, 2015, 11:31am Report to Moderator
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Page 5/6
A large, ornate auditorium with nearly a thousand seats. A few dozen people are scattered in the first few rows.


Quoted Text
A large elevated dais is at the front of the hearing room.   Lowell and four other Los Angeles County Supervisors sit in large, high back, leather chairs.


Very nice catch here - thanks.


Quoted Text
Page 6:

Show us that she’s “prim and proper” - behaves in a very formal and correct - by your dialog and/or action lines. Or if her clothes are prim and proper, describe “what” she wears so we can conclude that ourselves.


I'm okay as is for now (I'm evolving on this issue). There was a nice post from GHOSTWRITER on your Gavel thread that is now gone for some reason - was going to refer to it. Anyway - I'm okay with what I have but thanks.

Page 8


Quoted Text
Jackson SLAMS her GAVEL.

“When capitalizing for sound effects and off-screen sound, always capitalize both the thing making the sound and the sound it makes. (The Hollywood Standard - Christopher Riley)


No - Mr. Riley is incorrect here, especially in his use of the term always. It's his preference, not a rule. Many folks don't believe in capping sounds at all any more. So I use my own guidelines. Basically it is based on what I want the reader to hear and/or see. If I think the noise or sound is the dominant feature - I'll CAP the noise. If I think the object is the dominant feature - I'll CAP the object. If I think both - then both. If I think neither - then neither.


Quoted Text
Page 9:

Karen Mendoza TAPS on the DOOR of the conference and opens it half way.   But if we don’t hear his “tap”, don’t cap "tap" and "door"..


No - see above. I don't really care if the reader/audience hears the sound or not (unlike the SLAM above where I did care). All I want the reader to know is that Karen is not rude enough to barge into a room without knocking which is accomplished without the CAPS.

Thanks again for the feedback - you raise interesting subjects. Cheers


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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vancety
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 8:28am Report to Moderator
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I still like the story.

This was excellent :

JACKSON
I thought this would just run its course.  

FERNANDEZ

Apparently, it is a very long course.

Page 71:

FERGUSON

"I sorry" becomes "I'm sorry"

Page 114:

Jason pushes the Lowell towards the site. cut "the"

                                                                        FADE OUT.

Would be cool if this was made into a movie.
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eldave1
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 9:50am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from vancety
I still like the story.

This was excellent :

JACKSON
I thought this would just run its course.  

FERNANDEZ

Apparently, it is a very long course.

Page 71:

FERGUSON

"I sorry" becomes "I'm sorry"

Page 114:

Jason pushes the Lowell towards the site. cut "the"

                                                                        FADE OUT.

Would be cool if this was made into a movie.



Thanks for the catches (above) and the read. It is amazing how many times you can read something and still leave typos. Anyway - much appreciated.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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medstudent
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 5:17pm Report to Moderator
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eldave1,

Started reading this.

My initial thoughts...

Opening action piece... I always like starting a scene with a small description of the location (Type of medical clinic, etc.)

Moving on...

I want to start by saying that I'm going to be particularly picky on this opening scene one, because I am a physician and two, I am a neurologist. I've had the exact type of conversation with real patients hundreds of times.

First, the opening dialogue is rough. Because the opening scene is the most important, it needs to zing either visually or with the characters. You need to capture the reader's attention right off the bat so this bit of dialogue has to be perfect. I would start by considering how much or little these two know each other. What is their backstory? Specifically, how do they know each other? Do they golf together? Are their kids dating? Do they attend the same church? Do their families go way back? These specifics matter because of the subtext within the dialogue. When I see patients I know, I start the visit with casual stuff... "How's the family? Did so and so get into school? Did Bill recover from that last night out?", etc.

When doctors, particularly neurologists examine patients it is usually routine. We've done reflexes, checked visual fields a thousand times. I would have the doctor perform his exam while talking to him about non-medical things. Also, experienced neurologists hardly say, "I'm going to do this next..." before having a patient do something. We hardly ever expect to find anything so we zip through most of the stuff ("Hold your arms out, touch my finger, close your eyes, follow my finger..."). Only when we find something amiss, does it cause us to pause, rewind and repeat parts of the exam.

Finally, Alzheimer's is a subtype of dementia. Dementia is defined as cognitive decline of a certain severity. Dementia can be acute, chronic, progressive, static. Alzheimer's Dementia is a chronic, progressive type of dementia with particular neuropathological features that include NF tangles, plaques, etc. Interestingly, patients with AD do not usually seek medical attention. Typically, their loved ones bring them in for evaluation because of odd behaviors, personality changes, forgetfulness, etc. They usually don't know that they have forgotten things. Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) can be seen in old age, traumatic brain injury or early dementias.

Clinically, patients with brain tumors (I'm guessing that's what he has based on the logline) present in one of several ways. First, patients can present with symptoms related to increased intracranial pressure. This can manifest as headache mostly but sometimes (rarely) patients can present with projectile vomiting (vomiting that comes without warning/nausea) due to pressure on the brainstem. Though this is typically seen in imminent cases of herniation and would not come and go. Patients usually have other signs and symptoms first (alteration of consciousness, diminished level of arousal, headache, blurry vision, etc.). The other common manifestation is seizure. Patient presents with a first time seizure, we scan them and find a tumor. It would be more realistic if Lowell presented with a worsening headache that came and has been present for weeks, then at some point lost consciousness from a seizure and is now getting checked out at the insistence of his GP.

I'll read on and get back to you.

Joseph


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medstudent
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 11:10pm Report to Moderator
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eldave1,

Most of the way through (page 87). I'm going to leave my initial impressions so far.

I am only one opinion. A guy who has never had a feature produced in his life. As you know from my own work I am still learning. So take this with a grain of salt. I feel there is a nugget of something good within this story. Something worth sticking with.

Spoilers....




The Last Statesman is a serious drama (not sure why it is in the comedy section)that attempts to address tough, modern day issues. The difficulty is that the story is nose down in the seriousness through most of the film. So much so that it frequently forgets its audience. I believe that material can be so heavy that the weight of it can keep an entertaining story from coming to the surface. The Statesman isn't preachy (and it the writer does a good job with this) but the script uses up most of its time making sure the audience is along for the ambling ride.

Generally speaking, the story gets the job done though is lacking in several key areas. The first and most important is the dramatic question. One is never asked. The story relies on whether or not Lowell has a terminal illness or not. This point is moot because we know early on that he does. The real issue and dramatic point that should be sharpened is what he's going to do with the time that he has left (because he knows and the audience knows in the first 4 pages). The story touches this but doesn't effectively use it as the thing that not only drives Lowell but drives the story. This should be the thing keeps the audience interested. When the "reveal" occurs  around page 69, it doesn't have its intended effect. Partly because there is nothing at stake. I know on the surface it seems that there is (getting the witness protection program overhauled, the governor getting re-elected) but there isn't anything really at stake for our main character. So what if he doesn't get the witness protection thing done? Who cares if Jason doesn't get re-elected? So what if Mckinney wins and becomes governor? More importantly, who really cares if he has a brain tumor? The reason these things don't do it is that the stakes whether Lowell succeeds or not aren't introduced in the beginning (or ever as far as I can tell). And since there isn't a real starting point (the dramatic question), it is difficult to build suspense, intrigue or drama. You want the audience to say, "Oh God, I hope he does it." and then have him either "do it" or "not do it". I think if you readdressed this, the story would fall into place. Almost everyone's actions should be antagonistic to Lowell's, preventing him from achieving this goal. You need to ask yourself, "Why does Lowell need to get the witness protection program overhauled? What's at stake?"

Once you sit down and answer the above, then I would take each character and mentally (or on paper) figure out the backstory between he/she and Lowell. The story relies so much on the interaction between Lowell and these characters that knowing the histories between them is of utmost importance. Right now, I feel like the script relies on exposition to fill in the backstory and this makes the dialogue difficult reading in places. Every word of dialogue should have subtext. Somebody owes somebody money, a favor. Someone knows Lowell's deepest secrets. Lowell knows one of the board members has been cheating (but doesn't say anything). Right now the dialogue is superficial. These people know things about the other. Things that they may be embarrassed about. Things that would make them look like a saint, a hero. When your characters speak, it feels like they just met. Casual conversation with the guy at the bus stop. There is more there. The dialogue should reflect this. There is one exception to this and it is the interaction/relationship between Lowell and Karen. These two have a history and you can tell by the way they interact on screen. When these two characters are together, they both jump off the page. It is very good. Duplicate this with your other characters. Again, once you know this backstory everything, including dialogue will fall into place.


These are specific notes as I read:

Pg 6. Pretty callous to have the board members act this way in front of a deposition, especially one that is televised. Maybe have McKinney the only one showing his disrespect.

Pg 11.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
Don't fret about it. We're both too old to get a long term illness.

This is soooo on the nose. It is the most obvious response. He's a smart ass. Make him say something smart ass.

Pg 12.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
...I should have stayed a cop.

Again, on the nose. His actions should say that he was a cop. Don't give his history away with one piece of dialogue. It's cheating. And it doesn't work.

Pg 17.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
I'm sorry. Um, I-I need to leave. Again, I'm sorry.

Again, no dialogue is needed here. Just have him leave without saying anything.

Pg 20.

Quoted Text
JASON
You mean, did I read about my dad?

No. Jason should never say those words. We need to LEARN this through his interactions.

Pg 21. I notice that if you were to cut the first (and second) line of dialogue, each conversation seems to flow better.


Quoted Text
JASON
I read it.

BAKER
This is not a good thing.

DELETE UNTIL...

BAKER (Cont)
Californians don't want a governor with a crazy father. We're right in the middle of fund raising. The last thing we need is...

JASON
It was a one day outburst. Leave it alone. It'll go away.


IMO, this flows better and accomplishes the same thing.

Pg 23-24. Great back and forth dialogue here. You really have the relationship between them down solid. It comes through in the dialogue.


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medstudent
Posted: July 13th, 2015, 11:38pm Report to Moderator
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Pg 24. Not sure the next place I would have my character after a scene like that is telling fart jokes at a bar. You go from a crucial, serious scene to this. Lowell would still be thinking about the previous scene, IMO. I did like the dialogue, just make it one of the other characters saying it.

Pg 31-37. One trick I use with long stretches of dialogue is break it up with bits of action. Otherwise I tend to picture the characters stone like delivering their lines. I (and the audience) want to see what Lowell is doing while the others are talking.

Pg 44-47. You use up 3 pages to get Lowell through an MRI scanner. This should be a half page at most.

Pg 54-58. Again, I would interrupt this long stretch of dialogue with bits of action. Again, maybe Lowell is doing something crazy that Jason notices.

Pg 69. When we "learn" that Lowell has a terminal illness, it doesn't have the intended effect. I think it would be better if this information was learned early on (around the time he learns that Jaime is killed). This should be the news that drives Lowell to do what he does.

I'll finish this up over the next day or so and get back to you.

I hope this didn't sound too harsh. I think you are a great writer with good story telling chops. I also think this story has great potential. It just needs a couple of rewrites. What do I know anyway? I could be completely off target.

Joseph


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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 1:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from medstudent

When doctors, particularly neurologists examine patients it is usually routine. We've done reflexes, checked visual fields a thousand times. I would have the doctor perform his exam while talking to him about non-medical things. Also, experienced neurologists hardly say, "I'm going to do this next..." before having a patient do something. We hardly ever expect to find anything so we zip through most of the stuff ("Hold your arms out, touch my finger, close your eyes, follow my finger..."). Only when we find something amiss, does it cause us to pause, rewind and repeat parts of the exam.

Finally, Alzheimer's is a subtype of dementia. Dementia is defined as cognitive decline of a certain severity. Dementia can be acute, chronic, progressive, static. Alzheimer's Dementia is a chronic, progressive type of dementia with particular neuropathological features that include NF tangles, plaques, etc. Interestingly, patients with AD do not usually seek medical attention. Typically, their loved ones bring them in for evaluation because of odd behaviors, personality changes, forgetfulness, etc. They usually don't know that they have forgotten things. Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) can be seen in old age, traumatic brain injury or early dementias.

Clinically, patients with brain tumors (I'm guessing that's what he has based on the logline) present in one of several ways. First, patients can present with symptoms related to increased intracranial pressure. This can manifest as headache mostly but sometimes (rarely) patients can present with projectile vomiting (vomiting that comes without warning/nausea) due to pressure on the brainstem. Though this is typically seen in imminent cases of herniation and would not come and go. Patients usually have other signs and symptoms first (alteration of consciousness, diminished level of arousal, headache, blurry vision, etc.). The other common manifestation is seizure. Patient presents with a first time seizure, we scan them and find a tumor. It would be more realistic if Lowell presented with a worsening headache that came and has been present for weeks, then at some point lost consciousness from a seizure and is now getting checked out at the insistence of his GP.


I honestly hope that you're writing medical dramas.

I used to love reading Robin Cook novels. They were pretty much the same every time, like most easy reading authors, but they were good. Your knowledge in the area would stand out a mile. Like John Grisham with law. Michael Crichton's medical knowledge is evident in his books too.
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LC
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 1:29am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot


I honestly hope that you're writing medical dramas.

I used to love reading Robin Cook novels. They were pretty much the same every time, like most easy reading authors, but they were good. Your knowledge in the area would stand out a mile. Like John Grisham with law. Michael Crichton's medical knowledge is evident in his books too.


Coma is terrific and still stands up today. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077355/
Michael Crichton (screenplay), Robin Cook (novel)


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medstudent
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 9:00am Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
I honestly hope that you're writing medical dramas.


Ha. Not yet. I plan on writing one (feature or TV series) in the future. Most of the medical dramas on screen currently I detest. Mostly because they are heavy on the telenovella part. Being a neurologist does help in some ways when writing.


Quoted Text
Coma is terrific and still stands up today.

Haven't seen it. Man, he looked young in that film!



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eldave1
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 11:33am Report to Moderator
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Hey med - responded - for some reason it's not posting - maybe there are limit on the length of a post - I'll cut it up.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 11:35am Report to Moderator
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Joseph - thanks much for the read and the detailed feedback.


Quoted Text
I want to start by saying that I'm going to be particularly picky on this opening scene one, because I am a physician and two, I am a neurologist. I've had the exact type of conversation with real patients hundreds of times.

First, the opening dialogue is rough. Because the opening scene is the most important, it needs to zing either visually or with the characters. You need to capture the reader's attention right off the bat so this bit of dialogue has to be perfect. I would start by considering how much or little these two know each other. What is their backstory? Specifically, how do they know each other? Do they golf together? Are their kids dating? Do they attend the same church? Do their families go way back? These specifics matter because of the subtext within the dialogue. When I see patients I know, I start the visit with casual stuff... "How's the family? Did so and so get into school? Did Bill recover from that last night out?", etc.

When doctors, particularly neurologists examine patients it is usually routine. We've done reflexes, checked visual fields a thousand times. I would have the doctor perform his exam while talking to him about non-medical things. Also, experienced neurologists hardly say, "I'm going to do this next..." before having a patient do something. We hardly ever expect to find anything so we zip through most of the stuff ("Hold your arms out, touch my finger, close your eyes, follow my finger..."). Only when we find something amiss, does it cause us to pause, rewind and repeat parts of the exam.

Finally, Alzheimer's is a subtype of dementia. Dementia is defined as cognitive decline of a certain severity. Dementia can be acute, chronic, progressive, static. Alzheimer's Dementia is a chronic, progressive type of dementia with particular neuropathological features that include NF tangles, plaques, etc. Interestingly, patients with AD do not usually seek medical attention. Typically, their loved ones bring them in for evaluation because of odd behaviors, personality changes, forgetfulness, etc. They usually don't know that they have forgotten things. Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) can be seen in old age, traumatic brain injury or early dementias.

Clinically, patients with brain tumors (I'm guessing that's what he has based on the logline) present in one of several ways. First, patients can present with symptoms related to increased intracranial pressure. This can manifest as headache mostly but sometimes (rarely) patients can present with projectile vomiting (vomiting that comes without warning/nausea) due to pressure on the brainstem. Though this is typically seen in imminent cases of herniation and would not come and go. Patients usually have other signs and symptoms first (alteration of consciousness, diminished level of arousal, headache, blurry vision, etc.). The other common manifestation is seizure. Patient presents with a first time seizure, we scan them and find a tumor. It would be more realistic if Lowell presented with a worsening headache that came and has been present for weeks, then at some point lost consciousness from a seizure and is now getting checked out at the insistence of his GP.


Valuable info here. I think the biggest mistake is not having a neurologist later on - i.e., Robert should be the GP doing the initial exam and then referring to a neurologist for the brain issues.

Thanks (p.s. think you should change your name from MEDSTUDENT to MEDGRADUATE



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
Posted: July 14th, 2015, 11:37am Report to Moderator
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Continuing:  


Quoted Text
The Last Statesman is a serious drama (not sure why it is in the comedy section)that attempts to address tough, modern day issues. The difficulty is that the story is nose down in the seriousness through most of the film. So much so that it frequently forgets its audience. I believe that material can be so heavy that the weight of it can keep an entertaining story from coming to the surface. The Statesman isn't preachy (and it the writer does a good job with this) but the script uses up most of its time making sure the audience is along for the ambling ride.


It was not intended to be a serious drama. It was intended to be a dramedy - it's in the comedy section because it doesn't fit in the drama section and there is no dramedy section (wish there was - I think I'll make a suggestion). Think "As Good as it Gets" for example. It could have been:

A recluse writer with OCD just wants to me left alone. That all changes when he is forced to help his gay neighbor survive a brutal beating.

That would have been a serious drama. Instead it was really this:

A phobic, sexist curmudgeon with OCD must overcome his flaws in order to win the woman he loves.


The latter is not a serious the drama, although important, serves as the backdrop for the comedy. That was my intent here. So, if you have viewed it as a "serious drama" - then the failure was it not being funny enough - not the other way around.  


Quoted Text
Generally speaking, the story gets the job done though is lacking in several key areas. The first and most important is the dramatic question. One is never asked. The story relies on whether or not Lowell has a terminal illness or not. This point is moot because we know early on that he does. The real issue and dramatic point that should be sharpened is what he's going to do with the time that he has left (because he knows and the audience knows in the first 4 pages). The story touches this but doesn't effectively use it as the thing that not only drives Lowell but drives the story. This should be the thing keeps the audience interested. When the "reveal" occurs  around page 69, it doesn't have its intended effect. Partly because there is nothing at stake. I know on the surface it seems that there is (getting the witness protection program overhauled, the governor getting re-elected) but there isn't anything really at stake for our main character. So what if he doesn't get the witness protection thing done? Who cares if Jason doesn't get re-elected? So what if Mckinney wins and becomes governor? More importantly, who really cares if he has a brain tumor? The reason these things don't do it is that the stakes whether Lowell succeeds or not aren't introduced in the beginning (or ever as far as I can tell). And since there isn't a real starting point (the dramatic question), it is difficult to build suspense, intrigue or drama. You want the audience to say, "Oh God, I hope he does it." and then have him either "do it" or "not do it". I think if you readdressed this, the story would fall into place. Almost everyone's actions should be antagonistic to Lowell's, preventing him from achieving this goal. You need to ask yourself, "Why does Lowell need to get the witness protection program overhauled? What's at stake?"


I wanted the audience to assume up front that at least Lowell already knew he was fighting against time (i.e., the TICK TOCK) in the opening scene. I don't consider the confirmation of the tumor later on in the story "a reveal". Long before that we should be able to determine that the man is dying. I had hope to establish that up front.  I will revisit things to see if I can make that clearer. The "stake" was not intended to be the witness center. The stake was supposed to be legacy.  i.e., Lowell realizes that after 40 years of service he hasn't really done anything. He also realizes that he does not have the time to endure the normal bureaucratic process to get something done - hence the shenanigans. The short answer to the question you posed - Why does Lowell need to get the witness protection program overhauled - is so that he can die knowing he accomplished something of importance.


Quoted Text
Once you sit down and answer the above, then I would take each character and mentally (or on paper) figure out the backstory between he/she and Lowell. The story relies so much on the interaction between Lowell and these characters that knowing the histories between them is of utmost importance. Right now, I feel like the script relies on exposition to fill in the backstory and this makes the dialogue difficult reading in places. Every word of dialogue should have subtext. Somebody owes somebody money, a favor. Someone knows Lowell's deepest secrets. Lowell knows one of the board members has been cheating (but doesn't say anything). Right now the dialogue is superficial. These people know things about the other. Things that they may be embarrassed about. Things that would make them look like a saint, a hero. When your characters speak, it feels like they just met. Casual conversation with the guy at the bus stop. There is more there. The dialogue should reflect this. There is one exception to this and it is the interaction/relationship between Lowell and Karen. These two have a history and you can tell by the way they interact on screen. When these two characters are together, they both jump off the page. It is very good. Duplicate this with your other characters. Again, once you know this backstory everything, including dialogue will fall into place.


Agree and Disagree. I am quite comfortable with the interaction/relationships between:

Lowell/Doctor Ferguson
Lowell/Karen
Lowell/Jason
Lowell/Tess

I do think there is some opportunity in the history between Lowell and the other Supervisors.


Quoted Text
Pg 6. Pretty callous to have the board members act this way in front of a deposition, especially one that is televised. Maybe have McKinney the only one showing his disrespect.


First - yes, it definitely is. Sadly, it's true. Like medicine is your background - this is mine. I served the Board for thirty years. Believe it or not, the interactions are actually a little more polite then I portrayed. That being said - readers don't share my actual experience and as a result I could be losing them here. - I'll take a fresh look at it.


Quoted Text
Pg 11.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
Don't fret about it. We're both too old to get a long term illness.

This is soooo on the nose. It is the most obvious response. He's a smart ass. Make him say something smart ass.


Concur - thanks. After she asks him what has gotten into you I think I'll have Lowell respond - "so far, tar and nicotine"


Quoted Text
Pg 12.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
...I should have stayed a cop.

Again, on the nose. His actions should say that he was a cop. Don't give his history away with one piece of dialogue. It's cheating. And it doesn't work.


I don't agree here. He's outside reminiscing - thinking about his life. I'm okay with the line. Perhaps there should be some reference to this earlier. I might include something with his first doctor visit (i.e., an injury related to the force)


Quoted Text
Pg 17.

Quoted Text
LOWELL
I'm sorry. Um, I-I need to leave. Again, I'm sorry.

Again, no dialogue is needed here. Just have him leave without saying anything.


I like that change - thanks.

Pg 20.


Quoted Text
Quoted Text
JASON
You mean, did I read about my dad?

No. Jason should never say those words. We need to LEARN this through his interactions.


Why?

Jason is just calling out Baker on his shit. i.e., you're not really ask me if I read the paper - you're asking me about my Dad.


Quoted Text
Pg 21. I notice that if you were to cut the first (and second) line of dialogue, each conversation seems to flow better.

Quoted Text
JASON
I read it.

BAKER
This is not a good thing.

DELETE UNTIL...

BAKER (Cont)
Californians don't want a governor with a crazy father. We're right in the middle of fund raising. The last thing we need is...

JASON
It was a one day outburst. Leave it alone. It'll go away.

IMO, this flows better and accomplishes the same thing.


Thanks - but I don't agree with that suggestion.


Quoted Text
Pg 23-24. Great back and forth dialogue here. You really have the relationship between them down solid. It comes through in the dialogue.


thanks.


Quoted Text
Pg 24. Not sure the next place I would have my character after a scene like that is telling fart jokes at a bar. You go from a crucial, serious scene to this. Lowell would still be thinking about the previous scene, IMO. I did like the dialogue, just make it one of the other characters saying it.


I don't agree - he's drunk and has been there awhile (that was the set-up). If he were sober - I would agree with you.


Quoted Text
Pg 31-37. One trick I use with long stretches of dialogue is break it up with bits of action. Otherwise I tend to picture the characters stone like delivering their lines. I (and the audience) want to see what Lowell is doing while the others are talking.


Oh - great point - that will help a lot here. Nice tip.


Quoted Text
Pg 44-47. You use up 3 pages to get Lowell through an MRI scanner. This should be a half page at most.


I don't agree - the scene is more then about getting an MRI


Quoted Text
Pg 54-58. Again, I would interrupt this long stretch of dialogue with bits of action. Again, maybe Lowell is doing something crazy that Jason notices.


Yep - good tip.


Quoted Text
Pg 69. When we "learn" that Lowell has a terminal illness, it doesn't have the intended effect. I think it would be better if this information was learned early on (around the time he learns that Jaime is killed). This should be the news that drives Lowell to do what he does.


Again, I wanted the audience to assume that he was dead meat all along. He goes to the Doctor when he is the type of guy who doesn't - he vomits, loses his balance - etc. I could start the story with "you have a tumor. What I was trying to accomplish is that he already knew he was a goner - obviously, that didn't work for you.  


Quoted Text
I'll finish this up over the next day or so and get back to you.

I hope this didn't sound too harsh. I think you are a great writer with good story telling chops. I also think this story has great potential. It just needs a couple of rewrites. What do I know anyway? I could be completely off target.

Joseph


Not too harsh at all. It's perfectly okay that you didn't like it and I greatly appreciate the read and the comments. Some I agree with - some I don't. But all of the comments were good food for thought.

Let me know when you are done your re-write - would be happy to take a look. Much thanks, Joseph.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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medstudent
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The stake was supposed to be legacy.  i.e., Lowell realizes that after 40 years of service he hasn't really done anything. He also realizes that he does not have the time to endure the normal bureaucratic process to get something done - hence the shenanigans. The short answer to the question you posed - Why does Lowell need to get the witness protection program overhauled - is so that he can die knowing he accomplished something of importance.

Yeah, but what is at stake if he doesn't accomplish this? There needs to be a PRIMAL reason to succeed (death, incarceration, loss of limb, etc). That is the question. I just watched The Judge (I highly recommend it, BTW) and Robert Duvall's character is VERY similar to Lowell. His character has the same dilemma. He wants to make sure his legacy, his reputation remains intact (he has been a judge for 40 years with an impeccable record) after being accused of murder. The difference is, there is ALOT at stake with his character. I won't give it all away, but if he is found guilty of the crime that he is accused of, he goes to prison for life (ruining his legacy), if he gets off because of his illness then all the cases he presided over in the year prior will be overturned because of mistrial. So much at stake. With Lowell, I didn't feel that. Yeah, I got that he wanted to "do something" before he died but to me it didn't matter whether he did or not. Even in a comedy, there needs to be some urgency. We need to FEEL SOMETHING. Maybe his wife wants him to do it. Maybe she tells him that he must fix it for her. Maybe she's had it with him. She going to leave him after 50 years because of the way he's done business. She loves him but she hates him for what he does, how he does it. She doesn't know he's dying, he doesn't want her to know. He doesn't want her to stay with him for pity's sake. He wants to prove to the only person that has been loyal that he can do the right thing for the only person he loves. This would give you a needed character arc as well. He starts off trying to get this thing fixed to save his marriage (a selfish reason). In the end he does it DESPITE his wife leaving. He does it because it is the right thing. Maybe all this happens and I would know it if I continued reading!

I'm going to re-read the script from start to finish. I want to get another good look at it.

J


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medstudent
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Quoted Text
First - yes, it definitely is. Sadly, it's true. Like medicine is your background - this is mine. I served the Board for thirty years. Believe it or not, the interactions are actually a little more polite then I portrayed.

Truth is often stranger than fiction. Believe it or not, I have written medical scenes and readers have been critical of the Dr/patient interaction that I've written.


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eldave1
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Quoted from medstudent

Yeah, but what is at stake if he doesn't accomplish this? There needs to be a PRIMAL reason to succeed (death, incarceration, loss of limb, etc). That is the question. I just watched The Judge (I highly recommend it, BTW) and Robert Duvall's character is VERY similar to Lowell. His character has the same dilemma. He wants to make sure his legacy, his reputation remains intact (he has been a judge for 40 years with an impeccable record) after being accused of murder. The difference is, there is ALOT at stake with his character. I won't give it all away, but if he is found guilty of the crime that he is accused of, he goes to prison for life (ruining his legacy), if he gets off because of his illness then all the cases he presided over in the year prior will be overturned because of mistrial. So much at stake. With Lowell, I didn't feel that. Yeah, I got that he wanted to "do something" before he died but to me it didn't matter whether he did or not. Even in a comedy, there needs to be some urgency. We need to FEEL SOMETHING. Maybe his wife wants him to do it. Maybe she tells him that he must fix it for her. Maybe she's had it with him. She going to leave him after 50 years because of the way he's done business. She loves him but she hates him for what he does, how he does it. She doesn't know he's dying, he doesn't want her to know. He doesn't want her to stay with him for pity's sake. He wants to prove to the only person that has been loyal that he can do the right thing for the only person he loves. This would give you a needed character arc as well. He starts off trying to get this thing fixed to save his marriage (a selfish reason). In the end he does it DESPITE his wife leaving. He does it because it is the right thing. Maybe all this happens and I would know it if I continued reading!

I'm going to re-read the script from start to finish. I want to get another good look at it.

J


Joseph - no worries, friend - it could just be that this is not your cup of tea. That is really quite alright.

As a note - in my mind's eye - Duvall (The Judge) and Lowell have opposite ambitions - The Judge is trying to protect a legacy he is proud of - Lowell is trying to establish a legacy to make up for a past he is ashamed of. At any rate.....

In terms of raising the stakes - character arcs - etc. I guess I am a bit rebellious.  I think in many instances those things are forced in to meet a prescribed writing format - I am more of the - a good story has to have three things kind of guy - a beginning - a middle - an end. I have read and/or seen too many stories that are ruined by artificially high (forced) stakes, weird reversals, trite theme statements, etc. etc. Probably a good discussion for a separate thread.

Thanks again


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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JimW
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Hey Eldave1,

I, too, have recently retired and entered this domain.  In my case, I may not be as qualified to offer credible critique, but I thoroughly enjoyed the entire script.

I found the writing (a few typos and all) to be most professional, above all, entertaining.  I loved the crustiness of the Lowell character and found him to be likeable, believable and sincere.  Although I thought you put your touch on his character, he reminded me of Denny Crane (William Shatner's character in Boston Legal) with a cool "don't give a flying fuck" edge to him.  

I thought the storyline had great balance regarding the son's political career, the relationship with the doctor, and what I thought were perfect timelines with the shenanigans.  Furthermore, I thought your character development with Karen accomplished a strong, respect worthy, believable assistant.  I could feel a real working relationship between them.  Even with the "big tits" concern - hilarious - I didn't think he crossed any lines to become an asshole.  As for the Tess character, she simply struck me as a convincing wife indicative of their generation.  

I truly wish you well deserved success with a great script!

Jim Waterous
Winnipeg, Manitoba  
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 15th, 2015, 7:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
In terms of raising the stakes - character arcs - etc. I guess I am a bit rebellious.  I think in many instances those things are forced in to meet a prescribed writing format - I am more of the - a good story has to have three things kind of guy - a beginning - a middle - an end. I have read and/or seen too many stories that are ruined by artificially high (forced) stakes, weird reversals, trite theme statements, etc. etc. Probably a good discussion for a separate thread.


Well said, Dave.  You are on point here, and I agree with you 100%.

Don't listen to the Screenwriting 101 type comments that produce the exact same Screenplay 101 scripts, that are turned into the exact same movies over and over.

A script/movie does not have to have grand character arcs, with flawed characters that somehow, usually completely unrealistically, overcome their flaw.

Just write solid scripts based on solid story ideas that come off as real, beleivable, and hopefully engaging.

Good job, bro.  Love it when peeps stick to their guns, respond "nicely", and realize that, although all feedback is indeed good feedback, all feedback is not feedback that should be taken to heart.
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eldave1
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Quoted from JimW
Hey Eldave1,

I, too, have recently retired and entered this domain.  In my case, I may not be as qualified to offer credible critique, but I thoroughly enjoyed the entire script.

I found the writing (a few typos and all) to be most professional, above all, entertaining.  I loved the crustiness of the Lowell character and found him to be likeable, believable and sincere.  Although I thought you put your touch on his character, he reminded me of Denny Crane (William Shatner's character in Boston Legal) with a cool "don't give a flying fuck" edge to him.  

I thought the storyline had great balance regarding the son's political career, the relationship with the doctor, and what I thought were perfect timelines with the shenanigans.  Furthermore, I thought your character development with Karen accomplished a strong, respect worthy, believable assistant.  I could feel a real working relationship between them.  Even with the "big tits" concern - hilarious - I didn't think he crossed any lines to become an asshole.  As for the Tess character, she simply struck me as a convincing wife indicative of their generation.  

I truly wish you well deserved success with a great script!

Jim Waterous
Winnipeg, Manitoba  


Jim - thanks for the kind words - much appreciated.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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eldave1
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Well said, Dave.  You are on point here, and I agree with you 100%.

Don't listen to the Screenwriting 101 type comments that produce the exact same Screenplay 101 scripts, that are turned into the exact same movies over and over.

A script/movie does not have to have grand character arcs, with flawed characters that somehow, usually completely unrealistically, overcome their flaw.

Just write solid scripts based on solid story ideas that come off as real, beleivable, and hopefully engaging.

Good job, bro.  Love it when peeps stick to their guns, respond "nicely", and realize that, although all feedback is indeed good feedback, all feedback is not feedback that should be taken to heart.


Thanks for the shout out - I know all of Joseph's comments were well intended and he is a very solid writer - I really like his stuff. Some of them I will take into account and make changes with and some not. It has taken me awhile at this to get enough confidence in my own voice to pick and choose.  Cheers


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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medstudent
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Quoted Text
Joseph's comments were well intended


eldve1,
I'm glad you saw this. I meant to only give my opinion.


Quoted Text
Don't listen to the Screenwriting 101 type comments

Well, this doesn't sound like advice I'd follow. I think having the basic (ie: screenwriting 101) things in place will allow the reader to focus on more important things (i.e.: story structure, pacing, character development, etc). I would prefer to focus on story and characters when giving feedback than slug lines, grammar, etc (unless it's detrimental to the story). I know some readers obsess over this.


Quoted Text
A script/movie does not have to have grand character arcs, with flawed characters

Wow, again, not advice I'd be giving to writers trying to learn the craft. You are correct that these things don't need to happen but if you want to write something that actually gets sold or produced then yes, these things should happen. It makes for good screenwriting and good story telling to have these things. It tells me that the writer has taken his time to carefully place these things in a story, has thought about his/her characters, etc. We can sit all day in our skivvies and write how we want, show the finger to those silly Screenwriting 101 rules. Go ahead. That just means less competition. I'm happy that some writers don't get it. It makes my chances better at selling something.

Again, what do I know. I haven't sold a thing.

Joseph


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eldave1
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Hey Joseph - this will be my last comment on this particular issue because I would like this thread to stay focused on the script itself. Like I said, a separate thread on screen writing principles would be of value and interesting to participate in. But, since you were kind enough to work with me on this script I would like to address you last comments.


Quoted Text
I'm glad you saw this. I meant to only give my opinion.


Your comments were of value and appreciated. It is difficult to get features reviewed and commented on here and you have now read two of mine - that is invaluable. As you know, I thought some of your comments were dead on and some were not. But I know they were all offered in good faith and look forward to shared reads in the future.


Quoted Text
Well, this doesn't sound like advice I'd follow. I think having the basic (ie: screenwriting 101) things in place will allow the reader to focus on more important things (i.e.: story structure, pacing, character development, etc). I would prefer to focus on story and characters when giving feedback than slug lines, grammar, etc (unless it's detrimental to the story). I know some readers obsess over this.


Dreamscale can be terse - that is just his style. Yes, he could have just as easily wrote something to the effect that he disagreed without the screenwriting 101 aside. e.g., something to the effect of you don't always need to raise the stakes...

But he didn't. Again - he is very direct and, in my view, the value to be gained is to ignore how something is said and focus on the germ of the issue.  Long winded way of saying that I think the essence of his point is correct. But that doesn't mean yours was incorrect because this is a subjective craft. Dreamscale is saying don't raise the stakes for the sake of raising the stakes. You're saying the you think that the story could be improved by raising the stakes. These are just two valid views on the same subject.


Quoted Text
Wow, again, not advice I'd be giving to writers trying to learn the craft. You are correct that these things don't need to happen but if you want to write something that actually gets sold or produced then yes, these things should happen. It makes for good screenwriting and good story telling to have these things. It tells me that the writer has taken his time to carefully place these things in a story, has thought about his/her characters, etc. We can sit all day in our skivvies and write how we want, show the finger to those silly Screenwriting 101 rules. Go ahead. That just means less competition. I'm happy that some writers don't get it. It makes my chances better at selling something.


You are correct in that many (if not most) successful films contain the elements you referenced. That being said, they are not necessarily required to have a successful script.

For me the epiphany moment was this - I was watching a video of script guru Robe McKee railing against formula driven script writing (I believe that he was assailing Save The Cat). And right after he got done with his diatribe, he says - but - any successful script must have at least three major reversals. WTF!! I thought - the dude just got done saying formulas were nonsense - oh - and here's my formula. That was the point in my writing that I thought - cok it - go with what you think works for you. It is an interesting watch. Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGpHbIOg6V4


Quoted Text

Again, what do I know. I haven't sold a thing.


Nor have I. But you are an excellent write and I do value the feedback you provided even though I don't agree with all of it and I greatly appreciate that you'll slog through a feature when many won't. Don't get derailed by the tone of comments here - I do believe that in most cases they are well intended.

Cheers.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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medstudent
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Dreamscale can be terse - that is just his style.

Yeah, I know. We've had similar discussions in the past. It can be off-putting is all.


Quoted Text
That was the point in my writing that I thought - cok it - go with what you think works for you.
I agree believe it or not. Who would've though Forrest Gump would have EVER worked structure wise? No clearly defined goal, no huge character arc. I think the most important thing is uniqueness and finding your "style". Most things will fall into place. If the story is good, it will get noticed despite its flaws.


Quoted Text
Don't get derailed by the tone of comments here - I do believe that in most cases they are well intended.

Never. I just want to get feedback and read scripts in return. I love this place. It taught me 90% of what I know.

I look forward to future reading trades with you.

Joseph


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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 16th, 2015, 12:49pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from medstudent

I agree believe it or not. Who would've though Forrest Gump would have EVER worked structure wise? No clearly defined goal, no huge character arc. I think the most important thing is uniqueness and finding your "style". Most things will fall into place. If the story is good, it will get noticed despite its flaws.


A good story that doesn't follow a predetermined set of rules, isn't flawed, it's genius.
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Dreamscale
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Joseph, I have business in Costa Mesa tomorrow and will actually be hitting Laguna for the afternoon before I fly home. I'll stop by your practice and we can hash this all out.



Kidding about stopping in, of course, but I will be hanging in Laguna tomorrow afternoon.

Everything is a matter of opinion.  Just be sure what you're saying is actually your opinion and not someone elses, who has told you that this needs to be like that, and that needs to be like this.  It's not only OK to step outside the old proverbial box, it's advised.

Welcome to the jungle...
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medstudent
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A good story that doesn't follow a predetermined set of rules, isn't flawed, it's genius.
I agree, Forrest Gump is genius.


Quoted Text
I'll stop by your practice and we can hash this all out.

Ha! You'll have to come to Florida. Left Laguna some time ago. When you are in Laguna though visit the Montage Hotel. It is breathtaking and open to the public. One of the most amazing views in the world.


Quoted Text
Just be sure what you're saying is actually your opinion and not someone elses

My opinion comes from years of experience (and unfortunately age) and knowing what I like and don't like. I would hope that these things are my opinion and not a regurgitation of someone else's.

BTW, Congrats on making in into the quarterfinals for the Page Competition (eldave1 and Dreamscale). No small feat. See, what do I know

Joseph



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eldave1
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Thanks much Joseph


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Max
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Ain't nobody write like that, bruh.

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Well done eldave, my man!

You don't need me to pat you on the back, but still, word life!
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eldave1
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Thanks, Max- appreciated


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Georgia
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Hi everyone. I'm new to the boards and keen to participate in both giving and receiving feedback (I'll be posting a sitcom pilot soon and a feature length at a later date).

I really enjoyed your script David. Something that's top 10% for BlueCat must be pretty much on the money so I almost hesitate to give suggestions but here were my thoughts:

I liked it very much. I found the dialogue smooth and entertaining. All of the characters were believable and I found Lowell very likeable. For these reasons, I finished the script with relative ease - this is a very good sign.

However, I was left feeling a bit flat at the end. This is probably due to the fact that I felt overall the story lacked some dynamics. Tess' stroke was a shock, but only in a surprising way, not in an emotionally jarring way because I didn't feel much for Tess and neither did I get a compelling sense of what a loss she would be the character I did care about, Lowell.

I was dying for the story to swell into a crescendo at the end, but for me it didn't. I wonder if it might be an idea to experiment with having dramatic scenes take place somewhere other than the hearing room every time. I felt like the drama kept going back there, again and again, but it was always just more of the same: Lowell pretending to have some other disease and being rude to his colleague. I feel like if you are going to keep going back to the hearing room, the drama has to go up a notch each time, or change and intensify in some way.

I might have liked to get more of a glimpse into Lowell's internal state and see him go on more of an emotional journey. He is so battle-hardened and quick to mask emotion with a quip of some kind that I didn't always feel that I had seen into Lowell's soul and found out what he was really feeling, about death (both his and his wife's), his political legacy and his impact on his son. I think a bit more emotional transparency at pivotal moments could really make his character sparkle.

To add to the praise of the first scene, I loved it. It is quite long but it flows so well and it's funny so I didn't care.

I found the restaurant scene starting pg 47 quite dull and it took me out of the story. There was the introduction of a new character to put a damper on it, little humour and long chunks of dialogue. I could have used a little something else to help keep the pace moving.

I liked the jokes regarding the "two flusher". What can I say? I like toilet humour!

Well done.
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eldave1
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Hi, Georgia. Welcome to the boards and thanks for the read. All feedback is appreciated.


Quoted Text
However, I was left feeling a bit flat at the end. This is probably due to the fact that I felt overall the story lacked some dynamics. Tess' stroke was a shock, but only in a surprising way, not in an emotionally jarring way because I didn't feel much for Tess and neither did I get a compelling sense of what a loss she would be the character I did care about, Lowell.


An interesting point. Tess' stroke was meant to be a derailment for Lowell - something that took him off the straight line to his objective. Not sure how to respond to you did not have a compelling sense of what a loss she would be to Lowell. She was his wife of 50 years - not sure what else I could add here.  


Quoted Text
I wonder if it might be an idea to experiment with having dramatic scenes take place somewhere other than the hearing room every time. I felt like the drama kept going back there, again and again, but it was always just more of the same: Lowell pretending to have some other disease and being rude to his colleague. I feel like if you are going to keep going back to the hearing room, the drama has to go up a notch each time, or change and intensify in some way.


An interesting observation, Georgia. The shenanigans in the hearing room were a purposeful device - maybe I did go to the well too often. I'll take a serious look at that/


Quoted Text
I might have liked to get more of a glimpse into Lowell's internal state and see him go on more of an emotional journey. He is so battle-hardened and quick to mask emotion with a quip of some kind that I didn't always feel that I had seen into Lowell's soul and found out what he was really feeling, about death (both his and his wife's), his political legacy and his impact on his son. I think a bit more emotional transparency at pivotal moments could really make his character sparkle.


Thanks for the observation - but I don't concur here - Lowell is a curmudgeon through and through - I can't run him into a softy and maintain his voice. i.e., as you said, he masks emotions - that is who he is.


Quoted Text
To add to the praise of the first scene, I loved it. It is quite long but it flows so well and it's funny so I didn't care.


Thanks so much - I really get a wide range of opinions on the opening - some hate it - some love it.


Quoted Text
I found the restaurant scene starting pg 47 quite dull and it took me out of the story. There was the introduction of a new character to put a damper on it, little humour and long chunks of dialogue. I could have used a little something else to help keep the pace moving.


Interesting that you would point this out (I think you are the first. It is easily my least favorite scene in the script and I have probably written a dozen versions of it and I am still dissatisfied. The elements are important for the story - but I do admit there is a problem with the execution. i.e., yes - I concur - this scene needs some re-working.


Quoted Text
I liked the jokes regarding the "two flusher". What can I say? I like toilet humour!

Well done.


Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the notes - hit me up when you're done with your project - would be happy to take a look.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Georgia
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Quoted from eldave1
An interesting point. Tess' stroke was meant to be a derailment for Lowell - something that took him off the straight line to his objective. Not sure how to respond to you did not have a compelling sense of what a loss she would be to Lowell. She was his wife of 50 years - not sure what else I could add here.  




Looking over the scenes with Tess again I would partially retract my criticism - there are some nice tender moments there, like the kiss on the forehead when Lowell is on the patio. I suppose my own life experience has made me quite cynical about husband/wife/partner relationships in the sense that I don't think it can be taken for granted that just because a couple has been married for 50 years that necessarily means they care very much for one another. I've known 30-40 year marriages where there was very little love or affection, held together by apathy and inertia. I belief that all relationships between characters must have work done to them to outwardly demonstrate their meaningfulness, but that's just my own personal philosophy. This could very well be done through the acting in these gentle, subtle moments, though, so I'm happy to back off



Quoted from eldave1
Interesting that you would point this out (I think you are the first. It is easily my least favorite scene in the script and I have probably written a dozen versions of it and I am still dissatisfied. The elements are important for the story - but I do admit there is a problem with the execution. i.e., yes - I concur - this scene needs some re-working.


It’s something of a cheap trick, but maybe a scene agitator here would inject a little more energy into a scene which, I agree with you, contains a lot of indispensable information for the plot. If you were willing to move the scene from a restaurant to maybe a seedy bar/dive (perhaps in an effort not to be seen by reporters etc.) You could try a drunk patron sitting nearby who repeatedly interrupts their serious discussion, some terrible karaoke singing in the background or an irritating whistling bartender. Or if you want to keep it in the restaurant they could be interrupted by having to sing happy birthday to someone at a neighbouring table (I hate it when you have to do that!!) or clap when a couple get engaged, maybe both. I’m reminded of that scene in When Harry Met Sally when two characters are talking about divorce at a ball game but they have to stand up and play along whenever the Mexican wave comes back around. It’s funny because the subject matter and the forced levity is so incongruous. Anyway, maybe it’s something you could experiment with, if only to discard the idea.
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eldave1
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Quoted Text
It’s something of a cheap trick, but maybe a scene agitator here would inject a little more energy into a scene which, I agree with you, contains a lot of indispensable information for the plot. If you were willing to move the scene from a restaurant to maybe a seedy bar/dive (perhaps in an effort not to be seen by reporters etc.) You could try a drunk patron sitting nearby who repeatedly interrupts their serious discussion, some terrible karaoke singing in the background or an irritating whistling bartender. Or if you want to keep it in the restaurant they could be interrupted by having to sing happy birthday to someone at a neighbouring table (I hate it when you have to do that!!) or clap when a couple get engaged, maybe both. I’m reminded of that scene in When Harry Met Sally when two characters are talking about divorce at a ball game but they have to stand up and play along whenever the Mexican wave comes back around. It’s funny because the subject matter and the forced levity is so incongruous. Anyway, maybe it’s something you could experiment with, if only to discard the idea.


Thanks for the suggestion - valuable stuff. I think I'm going to nuke the restaurant altogether - move the scene to McKinney's office - maybe have a reporter (or even Karen) take note of the fact that the big wig is in the building. Again - thanks


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Georgia
Posted: July 31st, 2015, 1:36am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


Thanks for the suggestion - valuable stuff. I think I'm going to nuke the restaurant altogether - move the scene to McKinney's office - maybe have a reporter (or even Karen) take note of the fact that the big wig is in the building. Again - thanks


No problem. If you do tweak the scene I'd be happy to give it a read.
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Warren
Posted: April 23rd, 2018, 8:59pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Dave,

Gave the first 10 a read.

I have a massive aversion to writing dialogue, I always tend to try and keep my scripts super lean when it comes to talking. The main reason is that I really struggle to make it believable and more importantly interesting.

Your first few pages are very dialogue heavy and action lean, and it doesn’t matter one bit.

It’s so natural and real, and you do well to give your characters their own voice, another thing I struggle with.

Had a few chuckles throughout.

Couldn’t spot any issues with the writing. Only thing I noticed was the character CONT'D's were still turned on. I imagine only because you may not have revisited this in a while, and are potentially done with rewrites.

Great work.


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eldave1
Posted: April 23rd, 2018, 9:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Warren
Hi Dave,

Gave the first 10 a read.

I have a massive aversion to writing dialogue, I always tend to try and keep my scripts super lean when it comes to talking. The main reason is that I really struggle to make it believable and more importantly interesting.

Your first few pages are very dialogue heavy and action lean, and it doesn’t matter one bit.

It’s so natural and real, and you do well to give your characters their own voice, another thing I struggle with.

Had a few chuckles throughout.

Couldn’t spot any issues with the writing. Only thing I noticed was the character CONT'D's were still turned on. I imagine only because you may not have revisited this in a while, and are potentially done with rewrites.

Great work.

Thanks,  Warren.  That was actually the very first script I ever wrote so it has sentimental meaning to me. Ironically, after years of neglect,  I just completed a revision for the upcoming Page contest.  I'll have to get that posted here.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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DanielW
Posted: May 3rd, 2018, 7:41pm Report to Moderator
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Dave,

Just finished it. Fantastic read. You are a great writer.

It’s your dialogue that stands out for me.

Daniel.
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eldave1
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Quoted from DanielW
Dave,

Just finished it. Fantastic read. You are a great writer.

It’s your dialogue that stands out for me.

Daniel.


Thanks Daniel - very kind of you.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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LC
Posted: July 11th, 2018, 8:27pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dave, I just finished this in preparation for Carson's critique.

I'll save most of my comments till later, but I'll just hint at one central thing I'm thinking, and that is that I came away feeling you should have shown the Jamie Flores part of the story more - at least to the audience, and perhaps as a more immediate catalyst to Lowell's actions.

Though it was an effective shock when Jamie's death is revealed early on, we see no actual depiction of the Vets' experience...

I think Lowell's mission on the back of his own life threatening illness could be stronger if he is reacting to an actual event he witnesses, rather than just moving to action following a nasty insult from a grieving mother. If you did this I think there'd also be more emotional investment from an audience.

Technically the script is spot on and I was impressed with how you seamlessly move from one scene to the next with nothing to pull me up. The humour is great, as are the characterisations. Clever, funny dialogue - everyone has a unique voice. Loved Lowell's political incorrectness - the 'problem with Karen's breasts.'  

I did think (from the logline) there'd be way more of Jason, specifically tensions and butting of heads between father and son... I didn't really get the sense Jason was in any doubt of winning the election, or that he was all that bothered by his father's antics.

Okay, I've said more than I was going to.

** Is this draft the latest? There are  still quite a few typos sprinkled throughout.

You're a terrific writer Dave, no doubt.  
Cross fingers the weekend leads to good things!

P.S. I notice (after reading comments) you've obviously made lots of changes to your original draft and the story has gone through quite a rewrite. Central focus was previously Witness Protection? The ending changed (Dustin's comments were on the money imh) - I'm glad you changed it. Lowell dying? Grim endings are not usually crowd pleasers. And the opening obviously changed too (Ren's feedback). Interesting the evolution of this story, though obviously I can't compare the original.





Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
LC  -  July 11th, 2018, 10:01pm
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eldave1
Posted: July 11th, 2018, 10:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from LC
Hey Dave, I just finished this in preparation for Carson's critique.

I'll save most of my comments till later, but I'll just hint at one central thing I'm thinking, and that is that I came away feeling you should have shown the Jamie Flores part of the story more - at least to the audience, and perhaps as a more immediate catalyst to Lowell's actions.

Though it was an effective shock when Jamie's death is revealed early on, we see no actual depiction of the Vets' experience...

I think Lowell's mission on the back of his own life threatening illness could be stronger if he is reacting to an actual event he witnesses, rather than just moving to action following a nasty insult from a grieving mother. If you did this I think there'd also be more emotional investment from an audience.

Technically the script is spot on and I was impressed with how you seamlessly move from one scene to the next with nothing to pull me up. The humour is great, as are the characterisations. Clever, funny dialogue - everyone has a unique voice. Loved Lowell's political incorrectness - the 'problem with Karen's breasts.'  

I did think (from the logline) there'd be way more of Jason, specifically tensions and butting of heads between father and son... I didn't really get the sense Jason was in any doubt of winning the election, or that he was all that bothered by his father's antics.

Okay, I've said more than I was going to.

** Is this draft the latest? There are  still quite a few typos sprinkled throughout.

You're a terrific writer Dave, no doubt.  
Cross fingers the weekend leads to good things!

P.S. I notice (after reading comments) you've obviously made lots of changes to your original draft and the story has gone through quite a rewrite. Central focus was previously Witness Protection? The ending changed (Dustin's comments were on the money imh) - I'm glad you changed it. Lowell dying? Grim endings are not usually crowd pleasers. And the opening obviously changed too (Ren's feedback). Interesting the evolution of this story, though obviously I can't compare the original.




Libby, thanks for the read and the great notes. I think the points you raise our valid. I did have a scene where Lowell met Jaime on the streets. Skid Row to be exact. I cut it you do the length of the script. Maybe a mistake. Yes, several changes were made based on the great comments I got here. Thanks again


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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JEStaats
Posted: November 2nd, 2020, 4:29pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dave - I just noticed that 'The Last Statesman' is #4 on Coverfly's Top 20 for the month. There's continuing life for that statesman! Congrats!
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eldave1
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Quoted from JEStaats
Hey Dave - I just noticed that 'The Last Statesman' is #4 on Coverfly's Top 20 for the month. There's continuing life for that statesman! Congrats!


Thanks, mate - it was number one for awhile - finally got passed


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Robert Timsah
Posted: November 20th, 2020, 6:40pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1


On the Ending

Very interesting comments. My wife (and muse) said almost the same thing when she first read it - (I think her exact comment was - how dare you make them all losers

In terms of the specific ending here, it was an attempt not to be predictable rather than to have the right ending.


Somebody could write a book about this entire issue.

Should we strive for a more authentic ending or an artificially "good ending"?

Dramas should probably err on the side of authenticity imo.



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Robert Timsah  -  November 20th, 2020, 6:55pm
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eldave1
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Quoted from Robert Timsah


Somebody could write a book about this entire issue.

Should we strive for a more authentic ending or an artificially "good ending"?

Dramas should probably err on the side of authenticity imo.


It is an interesting topic


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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