Quoted from Dreamscale The bar scene is not to create doubt so much but to introduce the characters first of all, and show that Jake is a killer, meaning he should be able to take care of himself when it comes down to it. His demise is a big shock and I think that some of that shock is due to his characterization and this story in the bar.  I know it still reads long, but in a filmed version, it will take place much quicker and it’s not like it’s a scene with a couple people sitting around with nothing else going on around them…there’s a lot happening around them and it will play our much more entertaining that most seem to think. We’ll see how it all plays out.  Thanks again for your interest!

I understand that you need this portion to bring all the character's to the table   I agree that it will play out much better with visuals.  I think when you have a lot of characters, reading your way through a script can be confusing at times (as a few have mentioned)...but I don't think that is difficult from a screen perspective, because in reality you get to know them much better.

I get a true feel for the personalities....especially since I have read this a couple of times.  I was actually referring more to the story between the guys...I do think it can be cut down a tad and not lose anything that moves the story along or the overall development of the characters.

Happy Friday!  What's shaken in Chandler Arizona?

~m~  

I just wanted to leave a few comments - I see that you've gotten quite a few already so a couple more can't hurt. I'll start by saying that I'm pretty new to script writing, but am a voracious movie watcher. Also, to be totally honest, I wanted to see what your script would be like after seeing some of your reviews on the forums here.

I have to say I really liked this script. I read the whole thing in under two hours, and was sorry it ended. I'm not a huge horror fan, but this is a movie I'd go see. As I read the scene where Dan and Carlie are leaving the airport, with all their banter back and forth, I found myself smiling. They seem so happy with life and each other. No hint of what's to come later.

There were only a few things that I noticed during my read through that stuck with me. Firstly, blood can do a lot of things - it can seep, weep, flow, ooze, pool, and puddle (to name a few), but it can't pile. Not unless it's coagulated. You use that term twice and it stuck me as very odd word usage. The second thing that struck me when I finished the script is that all the talk in the bar didn't lead anywhere. The story told by Johnny about Jake didn't mean anything to the story. I thought that this was foreshadowing of things to come, of a scene where Jake's prowess with a pipe might come in handy. But it didn't. I felt a little cheated actually. I mean if it's not moving the story along why is it there?

All in all a very good script. Held me spellbound until the very end - an ending I didn't see coming either.

Hey Hangfire, thanks so much for the read and comments.  Glad you liked it.

The version you read is quite old...I actually just finished the FINAL rewrite about 4 hours ago.  Funny about the "piling" blood comment, as I've discussed it in here before.  The final version uses the word "pool".  I know that I used "pile" incorrectly, but for some odd reason, I really liked how it looked...or felt.  It was brought up to me by the very first person to read the very first draft, and I kept it in until about 4 months ago.

Yeah, the bar scene and story has drawn lots of debate, and mostly negative feedback, but I've left it in, although somewhat shortened.  Final page count stands at 112, and that's where it's going to stay.

I agree that the "story" doesn't do much in terms of moving things forward, but it does do a number of things that I think you'd see and appreciate, upon multiple viewings (OK, or readings).  It's really meant to throw everyone off track, and paint some things that don't end up working out the way you'd probably excpect.  Jake killed a guy in cold blood...he shouldn't be the first to go...and so easily.  Also, this is the point where Nikki shows her true colors, cause she's pissed about the story.  I know no one's getting it in its written state, but I totally believe the filmed version will rock, and these scenes will only add to the slow simmering build.

If you want to see the final draft, send me a PM, and I'll E-Mail it over to ya.

Thanks again for your kind words of encouragement.  

PM sent.

I'll say this about the bar scene - it didn't drag on for me. I mean, it's only at the end that I realize some of the stuff didn't tie in, but the characters are so well fleshed out that it made for a good read. I can't wait to see the newest draft.

Note that I'm commenting on the Final draft, sent via E-mail, the 112 page version. I've read some comments but not all, there's too many so I might repeat somethings.

It's nice to see a spec script break the rules in such style. I loved all the FADE TO WHITE: transitions. The credits stopping every twenty seconds to play the missing or extended scenes was genius. I can imagine sitting on the edge of my seat in a cinema during the credits, waiting for those twenty seconds to pass for the next missing scene to answer my questions.

Your dialogue was great. The story about Jake puking every where had me laughing. I heard every character's voice and they were all unique as far as I could tell. I didn't get the feeling of a very slow build up like others did, I guess it has been cut down or I just enjoyed your dialogue too much.

My town has had snow constantly the past week and I'm sick of looking at it but the visuals with the snowflakes where my favorite. This would look stunning on film. The kills were also very easy to imagine in my head and played out well.

I was expecting Tobias to show up and start all the mindless killing so when I found out Danny was the killer on page 50, saying I was surprised was an understatement. After that, I figured Carlie would be in on it too but still expected Tobias to show. Jack and Jill were also good fun, and like others have said, Janelle and Marty were standouts. I didn't get the bit with Xavier at the end but like you said, the visuals would make that much clearer if I was watching it.

The deaths were full of blood and gore. Jill's "death" was my favorite but Marty's also stuck out. I thought when they left him in the car, he would come in and be the hero so to see him blew away was so unexpected, especially the way it happened. The relationships were also handled very well, like Nicole and Megan's and especially Janelle and Marty.

I know you can see this film being big, so can I. With the right people willing to take a chance on it, I'm in no doubt it would look great on screen. I think you said this is your final draft, I found a couple of small mistakes you might want to fix before you start shopping it around. They're very minor though.

p70 - BOBBY (O.S.) - JJ, come in. Where ya at Jilly.  - missing a question mark.

p83 - JOHNNY - I don't think Lisa would appreciate that too much, do you, Janey my dear. - question mark missing again.

The Snowy Chickens start a new song, and ask the patrons to
dance. Lisa smiles, looks at the girls.

LISA (CONT'D)
Hey I love this song. Speaking of dancing...let's go!

I think one of the Snowy Chickens should ask them to dance through the dialogue and not in the action line. In my opinion it would work better anyway.

p96 -  DANNY (CONT'D) - And how about you Ociffer? How you doing tonight? - Officer spelt wrong.

Just small cases, might help polish up your final draft.

I might add more tomorrow, I need some sleep  

My comments will also pertain to the final draft of Fade to White.

I won't mention the items that 1987brian has mentioned above.

I really liked the flow of the new script, much tighter. I have to say that my favorite part of the script is the interaction between Jannelle and Marty. Very true to life. You've captured the tension between them beautifully. Also, I think I finally figured out what's going on with Xavier - you spelling it out helped. But in my own defense I did have it figured out before you reveal what's happening.

Just a few things I noticed. I'm glad you counted your shots, I was. However, revolvers don't leave shell casing unless you empty the cylinder to reload. That doesn't happen so there can't be any shell casing as the crime scene.

The shot that kills Marty. I have a problem with it, but I know that Hollywood doesn't. Unless the gun used by the officer is not standard issue it's unlikely to result in a through and through. As far as I know, in Canada anyway, police firearms are not supposed to pass through their victims. Hence the shoot three times and re-evaluate the situation training that most police receive. Like I say, Hollywood will love it as written.

Finally, the scene at the end during the credits where you explain why the vehicles are not in the garage seems out of place. All the other scenes in the end credits explain what's happening behind the scenes during the movie - all the diabolical bits. The scene in the SUV where they talk about where they're parking seems like it could just as easily have been included in the movie proper rather than at the end.

That's about it. I really enjoyed reading this one, and would love to see it on the big screen.

Hey Brian, thanks so much for the interest, read, and comments.  I really appreciate it.

Sounds like you enjoyed it, and that’s exactly what I’m after.  I do feel this new final version is much, much better than prior drafts.  I have done my best to trim the longer scenes and tighten everything up as well.

Great catch on the missing question marks.  Amazing how things so simple can be missed repeatedly.  I changed them.

Others have also commented about not putting the Snowy Chickens request to dance in dialogue, but I’ve decided not to change it (still).  The original draft had actual songs going on, but I finally decided to get rid of them at the pleading of many in here.  It’s basically background noise that the girls will pick up on.

As I’ve commented many times now, the “mistake” on page 96 with Danny saying “ociffer”, isn’t really a mistake.  Danny says it like its spelled…kind of a slurred way to say officer, but also an inside joke, and a way of mocking him.

Again, really glad you enjoyed it and I totally appreciate all the nice things you said about it.  Thanks so much!

So I finally read this one to see what comes out of your head, Jeff. Overall, I like the concept. The concept being similar to the Hostel concept of there being a group of people who just kill other people for the hell of it. This one is a little more action packed, however, with them having to actively catch the people in more natural situations than the overly controlled torture situations that Hostel gave us. It definitely adds to the fun factor.

I applaud your efforts to try and characterize everyone that will get whacked within the course of the script, but there's one big problem that I noticed in my first read through. You can take it for what it's worth, since I'm fairly certain you'll argue with me on it. It takes way too long for something to happen. This is a horror script and after the teaser, no one gets whacked until page 57. That's page 57, dude! I mean, whoa! I hit page 20 on my first read through, and started getting worried that we were just having a whole lotta talking heads. I just started flipping through pages looking for something to happen, and I finally found it.

Your target audience that you love so much and defend so many movies for won't wait an hour for their next victim, no matter how bloody and naked your intro is (oh, and well done on the intro, by the way...your target audience loves you for that). But you need to break up your character building moments quite a bit to allow someone to get whacked a bit earlier. I mean, the Godfather is there hours long and it only took 45 minutes for it to get going. Same for Lord of the Rings. You've got a slasher flick, and whether you like it or not, you need to spill some more blood by page 20, or at least start threatening to.

That's my only real complaint on my first read through. I think you've got a great concept in that it would lend itself very easily to sequels and you could really build on it. I like that you tried to make some real people, though they still lean towards the cliche in most instances. The kills were ok in most cases, though the whole dog thing was a bit cheap and came out of no where (yeah, I know, it didn't kill her). I even liked your loose-end-tie-ups in the credits. What holds this one back is getting it started. I could care less about length as long as it's fun to watch.

I also noticed in some of the comments a reference to a 112 page draft. I read the 124 page one posted on the site. If you want comments on a more current draft, you should send it in, so you're not getting re-tread comments. All the same, I hope I lent some sort of (maybe) confirmation or insight.

Hey Frank (Hangfire), thanks again for the 2nd read and comments.  Glad you noticed the changes from the 1st draft to the 3rd draft.  I agree that this final version is much, much better.

Great catch on the shell casings point.   No one else has mentioned that and you are completely correct.  I'll have to pull it out (but I like it in there, damnit!).

The bullet travelling through Martin's head into the rear window of the Lexus is an interesting point.  I see where you're coming from.  The only defense I can use is that this is Durango, the old West.  Not alot of crime goes on here and officers even pulling their guns is rare.  The fact that Officer Jacobs carries a revolver, as opposed to something newer, easier to use, holding more shells, etc., could say that this weapon is a bigger caliber than most cops use, and maybe he's using "special" ammo.  Who knows?  If I need to pull it, it's basically just pulling out half a sentence, but I do agree that it's a cool scene and I hope I can leave it in there.

Finally, I have to comment on your last comment, about the missing scene involving not using the garage.  You are not the only one who has brought this up.  A close friend of mine, who has read the script numerous times, has told me over and over that I need to cut that scene out.  I agree if anymore scenes were to be axed, this would be the one for sure, but I still like it in there...for several reasons, that most probably won't get...or care about.

First, it actually makes a big difference how things turn out, based on the Escalade not pulling into the garage.  If they had, the Lexus would also have pulled in, and Martin would have survived, and when he was found, Danny and Carlie would have been busted.  Secondly, if both SUV's had pulled into the garage, Officer Jacobs would have been able to pull up closer as well, and he would have gotten inside a few seconds earlier, meaning that he might have been able to actually save Janelle, because he would see that she was not to blame.  Also, if Johnny and Janelle would have entered the house from the garage, vs. the front door, they may have both entered the kithen together, and would have changed things up dramtically.  I know, I'm rambling now...

But for me, what I like about this little scene is that it shows everyone together one last time, after they've already been killed, and adds a little humor also.  I do hear ya though about it not really needing to be there.

Thanks again Frank!

Hey George, thanks so much for reading my script…I just wish you had waited a couple more days though, as I will be submitting the new, final draft tomorrow.  It really is much better, tighter, and 12 pages shorter.  Although it’s shorter, it has some additional scenes, 1 being an early kill, prior to page 15.  If you want to give it a look prior to it being posted, just let me know, and I’ll E-mail it over to you.

I’m glad you liked it and I appreciate your compliments.  Hostel was an early influence, but it has morphed from there (IMO, at least).  I’ve added motivation for D & C’s killing spree, but most still aren’t getting it.  I think it’s much more apparent in the final draft.

George, you know me…I never argue with anyone …especially not you.  You are far from alone to say that the build up is too long.  Most have lambasted me for the bar scenes and all the banter, and I understand where you’re coming from completely.  But…I will say this, first of all, there are a lot of characters, so just the brief description alone takes almost an entire page, and the back and forth conversations and story takes numerous pages , but in a filmed version, everything in the Horny Toad would play out much quicker than it looks on the written page.  The new version has an additional kill right before the bar scenes, and Jake’s demise now takes place on page 49…so that’s a little better at least.

George, I think you know that I am not one who believes in typical 3 Act structure, or any of those type of things.  I have purposely written this in a way that breaks most “rules”, doesn’t follow typical horror plotlines and clichés, and is just basically “different”.  I’m not saying I’m against these things all the time, but I truly believe that scripts do not have to follow along like lambs; just because that’s the way it has to be.  This one is different and it’s different on purpose.

Thanks for the compliments on the intro…I like it as well, and think it really starts things off with a bang.  Someone else wrote “…that it starts off with a fucking knuckle punch…”, and I kinda like that analogy.

I have a feeling that the target audience that I envision isn’t the one you are envisioning.  Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take any and all who want to give it a test drive, but I actually see the target audience to be a bit older than the normal “slasher” audience, and more of a “thinking” audience. I also don’t see this as a slasher flick, although I do understand the similarities.

I’ve referenced “Wolf Creek” many times in here before, and I’ll do it again now.  Wolf Creek has an incredibly long and slow build up.  It’s got to be close to an hour before literally anything of interest happens, and the build (to me at least) is actually quite dull, because it involves only 3 characters, and not much is happening while they’re chatting.  In my script, we’ve got (at times) 9 people interacting with each other, a band playing in the background, and lots of “things” happening.  I don’t think it will play out as dull or meaningless, and I really think the characters voices and quirks will come through.

I think that based on the intro, the audience will be “waiting” for Tobias to show up and start another killing spree.  The longer it takes for something to happen, the more they will be apprehensive about it, and expect “something” to take place.

You are correct.  This is the first of a planned trilogy.  The sequel is just about done in my head, and will hit the page soon.  2 minor characters from this script will be the main antag and protag, but much like this, the line is very blurred as to who are our antags and who are our protags, and who the audience will be cheering for.  Glad you like the concept…thanks!

I definitely tried to make “real” people here.  Funny you say they still lean towards the cliché in most cases.  Honestly, I think that our brains are programmed to “visualize” in clichéd form.  I mean, with written descriptions and dialogue, the image we form in our head has to be an image that we are familiar with.  There’s just no way around it.  I really don’t see these characters as clichés at all, and D & C are going to come off as extremely unique, interesting, and likable people.  

I guess Jill’s “sled dog ride” is either liked or disliked, as I’ve heard a lot of both involving this scene.  It’s funny, cause this was actually 1 of the very first visuals I put together for the script, and I had to figure a way to get it in here that made sense and would come off as “cool”.  I think it will be a very fun and cool visual.  If you reread the script, you’ll see that it definitely does not come out of nowhere.  It’s actually foreshadowed several times.  I personally just really like it, I guess, but I understand that it is 1 of the few times you need to suspend disbelief a bit.

Glad you enjoyed the “missing scenes”.  I think it’s a great way to keep the audience in their seats while the credits roll.  I actually wrote the scenes that involve them purposely ambiguous, or purposely left out information that many would probably wonder out loud about.  It’s not for everyone, but as far as I’m concerned when you give a bit more…as a bonus, so to speak, no one should be unhappy abut it, and many will love it.

I am posting the final draft tomorrow (sending it in to Don, that is).  I totally appreciate your feedback, George.  It means a lot to me and definitely helps.  Thanks again, and let me know if you’re interested in seeing the final draft prior to its posting.

I doubt I would have a chance to read it before it was posted on here. I'll just check back when I get a chance to read it again, and I'm sure I'll find it. Thanks for the offer though. I am intrigued by it, so I'll probably have a look at the next draft.

I read the script about a week ago.  And I'm pleased to say I liked it, right up until the very end.  Having written a Horror script myself, I know this genre is no easy task.  I've read the first few pages of replies and agree with some, but not most of them.

The beginning was definitely new and original.  Very nice.

The dialogue could be trimmed down, which isn't a big deal. I agree with you when it comes to the slow build up. You kept the surprise a surprise. Personally, I couldn't stop reading it, long dialogue and all. That's why I had such a let down with the ending.

You distinguished each character, which is good. And you had me starting to care for them, flaws and all. The scene in the shed was awesome -- first kill.  

Bobby and Jill should probably go. I've added characters and used them as transitions when I probably shouldn't have.  Something to think about.

The ending threw me, because it made me think of Hostel. You took an original script and made it into an unoriginal script.  The entire time I was reading, I kept thinking and hoping Tobias was going to pay Danny and Carlie a visit at the very end, which would have been original and sweet. Can you imagine what the audience's reaction would be, if Carlie answers the door and there standing in front of her... is Tobias.

If I were you, I would think about making that my ending and leaving it open for a sequel.  

Good luck with your script and below is a link I think you might find helpful.

http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/we-pass/screenwriting/tips/2009/02/17/

Hey Mark thanks for the read and comments.  Welcome to SS, as well.

Glad you liked it for the most part.  What do you mean that you liked it up until the very end?  Which “end” are you referring to, and what didn’t you like about it?

I have this sneaky suspicion that you didn’t really get the end…as most haven’t.  I hope it is clearer in my final draft, which should be up here any day now.

Funny, cause Hostel was an early influence, but I went away from that theme because none of my early readers liked the direction it went in (a Hostel-like killing club, being the motivation behind D & C’s murderous spree).  Thus, I came up with my Xavier angle, which still seems to throw people off.  As I’ve said over and over, I think that visuals would make the ending much more understandable.  I still want the end to be ambiguous and I want it to evoke discussion.  I don’t want everyone clueless though.

I do like your suggested ending in some ways.  Very interesting for sure.  With the current ending, though, this is not only open for sequels, I already have Part 2 just about done in my head, and it should be hitting the written page soon.  This is actually the first of a trilogy.

I clicked on your link.  I am very familiar with its contents.  I think you’ll find my final version to be much, much stronger, tighter, and all around better.  It’s purposely written in a non standard way, though, and that’s the way I’m trying to market it.  It’s never going to fit into the typical 3 act structure, and it definitely doesn’t want to follow typical horror plotlines, structure, and clichés.

If you’d like to see the final version, let me know, and I can E-Mail it over to you.  Otherwise, check back in a few days and it should be up.

Thanks again for your thoughts and feedback.  They are much appreciated.

The new one is up.  I'll give it another read.

It doesn't look like it's up to me.  Hang on a few...or I can E-Mail it to you.  Let me know.