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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  Fade to White Moderators: bert
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 9th, 2009, 12:48pm Report to Moderator
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Hey James…Cleveland guy.  Thanks for reading and commenting.

As for the snow in Carlie’s mouth, Danny “plops” it in there immediately after she finishes saying, “You better not”.  Would her mouth really still be open?  Who knows…maybe not.  Maybe he just plops the snow into her face.  Good catch though.

Once people get to about page 45 or so, the rest of the read seems to fly along.  About 70% of the first 50 pages is purposely slow.  A lot of people don’t like that, but it’s been done so that when the shit hits the fan, it hits hard.  Almost like 2 movies in 1, along the lines of Wolf Creek,  Rogue, and even Hostel.

Most of the bites come from me dropping my line in the water (as in I’m going to them, they’re not coming to me!).  I’ve got something brewing with it right now actually, and hope things continue to head in the right direction.

Thanks for the compliment about being more intelligent and interesting than 70% of the stuff out there, but damnit…I wish you increased that percentage to around 90% or so (LOL).  The payoff is definitely what I was after here, and IMO, the reason it does hit so hard is based on the slow buildup.

Look forward to hear what you think after you’ve slept on it and run that machine of yours for awhile today.

Thanks again James!

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jwent6688
Posted: July 9th, 2009, 11:30pm Report to Moderator
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Alright I've been mulling this over for awhile. The thing i love here is that you do have a great payoff. But when i here you say that you purposely started it out slow the problem is it came off like you were just filling time.

Just sounded like a normal bar conversation, people killing time. Reminiscing about things that don't propel your story forward. I love a slow beginning for a horror, but i think you were too careful to not reveal anything so you could have that great payoff that you bored your audience with stuff that doesn't really add to where you're going. The whole story about drunk Jake and him almost killing that bouncer didn't amount to much. I thought he was gonna be hell for the killer.

SPOILERS!!!!

Then Jake doesn't even get a shot against a doctor?

You could have at least dropped a quick scene like, "Hey did you guys hear about those murders in Steamboat Springs the other day, they even killed the kid"  and have Carlie or Danny react weird cuz they know that was a mistake on tobias' part.

This industry fascinates me. A completely unoriginal Friday the 13th remake pulls in 40mil first weekend. Probably cost a mil to make. But that's what Hollywood is. You've referenced 3 movies, I've only seen two of them, will rent Rogue this weekend.

Wolf Creek? i had A hard time getting through the first half of that film, almost stopped watching it, but it did payoff. Just like yours. Problem for you? "based on actual events". Huge selling point. Nobody cared about the beginning, they yawned through it waiting to get to the kills.

Hostel I was a huge fan of. Very good slow beginning. Parties, hot ass chicks, very interesting location (I didn't even know what a hostel was). But mystique started to drive the story forward once they arrived. Did their friend bolt back home after they got shitfaced withh those hot chicks? Or did something else happen? Why doesn't he answer his cell? Why are these chicks always talking to these big guys in black leaher coats?

Not to mention "Drag Me to Hell" was one of the best horrors I've seen at the theatre in awhile and it tanked. Probably because Jason wasn't in it.

I read your script as an audience member, not a script critic. I don't know wtf i'm talking about for the most part.  And I told you how i felt after the read. I loved it, but had to work through the beginning.

I don't like trying to find everything I think is wrong with someone elses work. We all differ in our opinions.  We're all, at least, inspired writers. I really feel this script has alot of potential, but you've got to give some meaning to that bar scene. Or collaborate with someone who can make it absolutely hilarious and we won't care. You did a great job with Bobby and Jill, but nothing in the bar made me laugh. It's all about entertainment. We just all want to be the ones who give it to them...      

Because I'm a shit one last complaint: Johnny, Jake, Janelle, Jill? i had to go back several times to figure out who was Johnny and who was Jake. Can always change their names on a shooting script, but for a spec,  well, You know. probably not gonna like me too much after this. I am being overly critical, but i've been drinking and i'm pissed at my ex. Share the wealth. Great work, you've got best unproduced i've read on here til further notified.              Oof   James


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 10th, 2009, 4:56pm Report to Moderator
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Hey James, thanks for the additional feedback. I seriously love stuff like this, and enjoy responding back as well.  Trust me, you’re not being a shit in any way, and I love your review, as well as a number of things you brought up.

OK, let’s talk about the setup and payoff, and how they work or don’t work.  Great payoffs are what make movies really work, IMO.  It’s tough to leave a movie and say you really liked it, when the finale and ending sucked.  It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.  It’s also a real downer, when a movie starts off poorly…or just flat our boringly.  So, based on that, I’m a true believer in starting and ending with a bang.  If anything is going to drag, I want it to be early on (after the beginning) up until about the middle.

Many will jump on this philosophy and say, why not just have the entire thing rock?  I’m not against that, it’s just that nothing hits as hard when the entire 90 minutes is balls out action, excitement, horror, or whatever.  I truly believe that downtime produces a much heavier hit, when things ramp up.

I definitely was not just filling time with page 5-47, and I also wasn’t trying to bore my audience.  I realize that only a handful of pages here really do anything to propel the story forward.  But I also realize that characterization has to take place to create good, solid, likeable characters, and it comes in many different forms.  I really wanted things to be slow, but also interesting, engaging, and funny at times (not comedy-type funny, as I definitely didn’t want to change the tone of the script, but just fun, and a bit humorous).  I also wanted to create realistic characters who acted and talked like real people, and had flaws, again, like real people.

The story about Jake was meant to serve a few purposes, and 1 seemed to work for you, even though you didn’t realize it. First, I wanted to show that there was a real history between Jake and Johnny (McD). I wanted to show that Jake had a different side to him…a potentially dangerous side.  I also wanted to paint Jake to be a definite tough guy, who would be a real foil for any antagonist…one who would put up a real fight.  I also wanted it to come off as funny at first, and then surprising, after the reveal of the actual ending of the story.

So that’s why Jake is killed off first, and why he doesn’t even put up a fight.  It’s most shocking, exactly because of this story, and what you think of him.  Jake is most likely the last character that you thought would die first, and the way he doesn’t even put up a fight, most likely was also a shock.  Now, obviously, the reason that he didn’t put up a fight, is the same reason no one except Janelle did…because they had no idea they were in any danger and had absolutely no reason not to trust D & C.  

OK, next subject – the Industry and the new Friday the 13th.  I actually liked this movie and was pleasantly surprised, cause I didn’t expect much, really.  It actually grossed $91 Million World Wide.  Its budget was quite a bit more than you’d expect, at $19 Million.  Why’d it cost so much?  Well, they did a solid job with it and didn’t cut corners, but with Michael Bey producing and Marcus Nispel directing…well, you can see where a bunch of money went.  Anyway, nice return on investment for sure, cause it also did great on DVD rentals and sales.

Rogue is also a really interesting discussion in itself.  It grossed under $5Million WW, and was barely even released here in the states, although the budget was around $25 Million!  The Weinstein bros liked what they saw so much in Greg Mclean’s script (and what he did with Wolf Creek), they upped the budget insanely to make the animatronic croc and CGI that was required.  Everyone pulled it off beautifully, but for some insane reason, they never gave it a real release and it was relegated to DTV basically.  What a shame, cause it’s a brilliant flick that works so well, and just has a monstrous payoff in the end.

Wolf Creek was Mclean’s first movie, produced for around $1 Million (AUS) (but I’ve also heard reports that the budget was as much as $4 Million), and grossed $28 Million WW.  I saw it at the theater, and didn’t have any pre knowledge of the plot, etc.  I remember so vividly sitting there for the first 40 minutes, thinking to myself, what the fuck is going on here?  When is it going to get going?  When it got going, it really took off and delivered on a very slow, dull first half.  But that first half is much duller than my script, basically because it only involves 3 characters in a couple of different settings.  The only remotely interesting scene before they get to the crater is when they stop for gas in that little Hell Hole of a “town”.

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again now.  In a filmed version, my script is not going to come off nearly as slow (or long) as it seems on paper.  It’s very dialogue heavy, with lots of quick exchanges that will play out much quicker than the page count suggests. It also involves a rather large amount of characters, and a bunch of different settings.  The outside scenes with the falling snow will also be quite stunning, and I honestly don’t think it’s going to drag anywhere near what most people think.

Hostel is pure genius, and worked on every single angle imaginable.  It truly created an entirely new sub genre, and that alone should silence any critics who don’t appreciate it for what it is.

Drag me to Hell isn’t my cup of tea, because it’s basically a horror comedy, and isn’t to be taken seriously.  It was far from a box office flop though, as it brought in $58 Million WW, on a $30 Million budget.

Again, thanks for the compliments here, and I’m so glad you enjoyed my script.  Also glad you liked Bobby and Jilly.  They’re there for comic relief, but again, not to go over the top into actual comedy realm.  I’m a bit surprised you didn’t find any of the bar scene funny.  The more I read it, the more I find very humorous.

I’m also a bit surprised you had trouble keeping track of the different characters.  I see your point about the “J” names, but Johnny is usually referred to as McD by everyone, and Jill is on her own, and intro’d so much later.  I think it’s always a bit tough to keep track of a large cast with no visuals to help out.  I purposely used each characters name in dialogue a number of times, so people would know who’s who.  One of my pet peeves in movies is not knowing a character’s name, because it’s so rarely given, if at all.

I hear ya about being pissed at an X…we’ve all been there.  I suggest drinking through it…heavily!

Thanks again…your words are important and really help to let me know how people feel about this, and what goes through their minds as they read.

Enjoy the weekend!
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James McClung
Posted: July 10th, 2009, 5:34pm Report to Moderator
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I'm splitting my review in two as I've got tons of notes and still got a lot to go so here's the first batch...

pg. 3 - “Marshall and Cyndi Patterson...” They’re not brother and sister, are they? Gross! Somehow, I don’t think this is what you intended. I’d reword.

- I like the little jolt Cyndi receives getting out of the pool. Very cool.

- How is Marshall able to leap out of the pool? First off, he’s in the deep end. Second, he’s probably fried after his full body shock. Maybe he’s still alive but I doubt he’s going to be doing any leaping. I suppose it’s cool to have victims survive initial attacks only to get it even worse moments later but I would rethink this one instance.

pg. 4 - It seems strange to include the cockpit, first class and coach cabins all under the same slug. You need a few more to properly break up the action. That is if it’s absolutely necessary to show the Captain and Rosie right off the bat. The Allens are the focus here. The others can come later.

- Not a big Edguy fan but I always appreciate references to metal bands the general public is unaware of. Kudos.

pg. 9 - Stupid rule but I think technically you’re not supposed to immediately follow slugs with dialogue. I don’t much care and I don’t suggest you change anything. I just figure it’s good to know these things for whatever reason.

- I really enjoyed McD’s story. You could’ve omitted the numerous interruptions but then it wouldn’t have felt nearly as authentic. That said, the scene does run a bit long. I’m a dialogue man, so long as it’s interesting and well written, but not everyone’s got the patience for this particular style, especially since so much time is spent at the bar. Just thought I’d mention it in case you wanna cut it down some. Like I said, I really like it so it’s your call.

- I think you could speed up the introductions once the guys come back to the table. We’ve been through introductions already. The faster you can get to Danny saying he’s a doctor, the better. Maybe lose the skiing banter. I don’t know. We’re spending an awful long time at this bar is all. Even with breathing room, I think exposition should wind down at some point, especially when it all takes place at the same location.

- Okay. Enough’s enough. After five or so scenes of straight exposition, I think it’s time to move along. You could easily lose the goodbye scene and the scenes in the car and just cut to the Allen’s tire going out and them being “rescued” by the others. They could easily be headed in the same direction. If you lose the goodbye scene, nobody knows anything about Eagle’s Crest or what not and you could just explain it in the Escalade with a quick few lines of dialogue.

pg. 50 - I like the whistling in the wind a lot. Very cool.

- You think Danny’s a little too obvious about Jake? I don’t think he needs to sell his alibi so hard.

More later...


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 10th, 2009, 6:46pm Report to Moderator
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Hey James, thanks so much for the read and feedback.  Don’t read this if you haven’t finished the script, as there are SPOILERS involved, but I wanted to reply while I had some time on my hands.

LOL!  No, Marshall and Cyndi aren’t brother and sister.  They’re 2 of 3 characters (Joey being the third) that aren’t actually named in the movie proper.  Marshall is Lloyd’s son, and Cyndi is his wife (Joey is their son).  They’re killed off almost as quickly as they’re intro’d, so the audience is going to have to make some assumptions as to who exactly they are.

Yeah, I like how Cyndi gets thrown on the decking too.  A bunch of people have questioned Marshall’s resurgence as well.  Maybe “leap” isn’t quite the right word here.  When the extension cord pulls out of the socket, the electricity is obviously cut off. He basically comes to and resurfaces, trying to do anything he can to save his wife.  The fact that he breaks the surface, is enough to throw Tobias off, making him miss his shot at Cyndi.  Yeah, it’s there to add a little surprise and intensity to the scene.

Good point about the lack of slugs for “Cockpit” “Coach” and “First Class”.  Earlier drafts had Secondary Slugs in, as I had the camera kind of drifting back, showing the entire plane, but I removed them.  I’ll have to reconsider this, as it’s a good point.  Thanks!

LOL!!  Edguy!!  YES!  Easily one of my favorites, if not my top favorite band.  This reference is an off the wall little hint of things to come, that no one has caught (and probably no one ever will).  Edguy is a German band.  Tobias is German.  A little hint that maybe Tobias and Danny have something in common?

This is a good catch.  Originally, there was an action line in here first, before Carlie speaks.  I dropped it because in the line preceding it, I showed that Danny and Carlie are in the car, from an EXT. view through the window.  I decided not to add another line saying this, as it’s already known, but it’s a good catch nonetheless.

Cool!  Glad you liked the story…most absolutely hate it, which always surprises me.  Yeah, the scene intentionally runs long…way too long for most, but as I always say, it won’t run nearly as long as it appears it would, based on page length, as there are lots of quick exchanges.  Also, there are a few different groupings going on, so I really think it will play out much better in a filmed version.  To me, it’s just a good way to get to know everyone, and group dynamics.  Nothing Earth shattering here for sure…just a bunch of friends having a great time on an epic weekend of skiing.

I made a conceited effort to intro everyone a few times, so their names are remembered. A pet peeve of mine is not knowing anyone’s name in a movie, and I’m sure I went a little overboard here.

Yeah, I love the whistling too.  Maybe you’re reading a different version than I’m looking at, cause I see the whistling taking place on the bottom of page 51.  Hmmm, oh well, we’re close.  Glad it worked for you.  It gives me a creepy feeling for sure every time I read that part.

Not sure what you mean about Danny “selling his alibi about Jake”.  Could you explain?

Great stuff so far, James.  Thanks, man!  Look forward to reading the rest of your comments.
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blazedphoenix
Posted: July 11th, 2009, 12:22pm Report to Moderator
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JEFF, regards to your script = Fade to Black

I have finally read it lol, the whole 120 pages... it took me ages cos i was tryng to get mine sorted, and still am lol... soz about that.

anyway your script is awesome bud, okay it starts of with a bang in the space of like 5 minuites... i am not sure if this a good idea tho or not, but it does work in your case.

i mean like a whole family dead in 5 minuites lol
and then it kind of starts to drag, with irrelevant scenes like the bar incident.... but then makes up with it with the various, well thought of killings.
i was hoping it would of been a guessing game though.

dialougue was good... and action was good... characters were a bit of a drag... exept 1 or 2... i was keen on the lovey dovey bits though.
it reminded me of hostel but better ...

i am not a pro at these things as i am still learning etc... so wish i could of game more input dude, will do in the future, sorry about that.
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James McClung
Posted: July 12th, 2009, 4:34pm Report to Moderator
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- Not sure how useful this Jack subplot is turning out to be. You haven't developed these characters much at all past Bobby's leg injury. Jill feels like she's supposed to be some kinda heroine but it doesn't help that her relationship with the protagonists is kept in the shadows. Some link has to be established here for it to really be effective. Otherwise, it just feels tacked on.

pg. 84 - It's just a frying pan. No need to overwrite.

- No need to repeat where all the others are. We know they're dead. If you really feel it necessary to stall, I'd find a better way to do it. I'm not sure Janey would be asking about the others when her life's in immediate danger anyway.

- I don't like what you've done with the credits. It's unnecessary and jarring as hell. Not so much reading it as imagining it on the screen. The reading's also a little distracting. Not to mention you do it too many times. A little too Monty Python-ish for the style. Then again, I've never been a fan of this kinda stuff. Once the credits start rolling, I�m ready to go home.

- To answer your question, when Danny comes back from killing Jake, he obviously has to explain why Jake isn't there. By selling his alibi too hard, I meant to say he says a little too much for it not to be suspicious. I think it'd be better for him to say he stuck around for a cigg or something. Not a big deal. I just appreciate thoughtful characters.

- Also, cool about the Edguy foreshadow. I didn't know they were German but just the same, it's cool. If you'd said Kreator or something, maybe I'd have caught on. In any case, metal references are always appreciated.

Okay. All done here.

First off, I like your writing style a lot. Everyone is personalized in a way most scripts aren't. For example, when I character orders a drink, they order a real drink. Sierra Nevada, Grey Goose, etc. I guess technically you're not supposed to do this but it just makes everything so much more authentic and identifiable. Same with Danny's whistling or Nicole's drunken Britney Spears song.

The story was simple enough. It's got an excellent backdrop which is always important and while the slasher elements are there, I got to know all the characters pretty well. Even knowing who the murderers were from the getgo was a refreshing change. The kills were brutal and realistic. While slashers have gotten gorier over the years, the kills have gotten quicker. No one lingers around anymore. It was cool to see the killers take their time with the victims. It made the kills a lot more visceral and intense.

I didn't much care for the end. Who's Xavier supposed to be? The Devil? The Angel of Death as he said? Maybe we're not meant to know. Either way, he's more than human, so to speak, even if not inherently monstrous or supernatural. I don't know. It just felt very overblown, even before the whole supernatural overtones came a long. Had they all been assassins or something, I'd have felt the same. The whole thing reminded me of Martyrs. I don't know if you're familiar with the film but it has the same style of ending in which it just feels way too big for the scale of the story. Anyway, it didn't ruin the script. Just didn't quite work for me is all. I don't know what I could tell you to change.

Anyway, a pretty solid read overall. It ran a little long and dragged at times but for the most part, it had a strong pace and I liked the little touches you put here and there that weren't all that neccesary but gave a much more organic feel to the whole thing. I really enjoyed reading it.


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Ledbetter
Posted: July 12th, 2009, 6:40pm Report to Moderator
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Dreamscale,
Sorry it took so long to get on this. Sales have kept me from doing more at home. Being from an investigative background, the opening scenes drove me nuts. The writing was good but the accuracy was way off on some issues. I haven’t finished beyond the first 5 pages but I will. I promise.  So far this is what I have in regards to what I feel.

The first murder didn’t seem real. Stabbing someone in the throat will almost never sever the primary artery and if it did, bleed out would take up to a minute, not seconds.

I don’t know of any kids who would be swimming naked together in a pool when mom and dad are cooking dinner right around the corner.

Does this boom box have a twenty foot cord attached?  If it is setting on a table, why would it?  

Also you don’t scream when electrocuted, your throat seizes up. You can’t even speak.

When Marshall comes out of the water, is it like a marlin?  I am trying to picture this and it doesn’t work.

OK, so Tobias is standing over Cyndi, aiming a shotgun at her AND HE MISSES?

Then she gets up and runs? He is standing RIGHT THERE.  Two feet away yet she makes it all the way outside in a nano-second.

Pool water turns pink with blood infused not deep red. Small point.

And why is the kid sleeping? Isn’t dinner on?

In the plane on page 5 if the captain is on the flight deck, he is not even in the plane.  A flight deck is an area where aircraft take off and land on a carrier. It is also an area for refueling.

Actually, the whole speech sounds odd. Not realistic.

Why does the kid have BOSE earphones? Know what I mean?

I am going to stop here for now and start again tonight after dinner. Our two styles are so very different that I can see why my writing annoyed you because that is the way I am feeling with yours.  It is not that it is bad; I just think it is un- realistic.

I do feel your writing is very compassionate and thought out.  It just doesn’t seem for me to translate in my head as if I am watching it. But I am only into the first few pages. I will write more as I get into it.

P.S. I have NOT read any of the other posters thoughts, so if anything here has been address, sorry for being repetitive. I just didn’t want others thoughts influencing my opinion.
Shawn…..><  
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 13th, 2009, 6:17pm Report to Moderator
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OK, James thanks for finishing and giving me some more insight.  I’ll give you my take on your comments.

Bobby and Jill are a small subplot.  Jill is 1 of 2 things…either a possible savior, or another piece of meat.  Interestingly enough, she proves to be neither, and is one of the only survivors.  Bobby proves to be the one to get the cops on the scene, but, it doesn’t quite work out.  They’re here for a few laughs, and you gotta like Jill’s sled dog ride into the rock…it’ll be a great visual, and I think bringing them into it midway, gives a number of new possibilities, once the shit hits the fan.

Ha…a normal frying pan wouldn’t work the way a Le Creuset works.  Someone actually questioned the use of a frying pan being a lethal weapon, and I had to describe exactly what a Le Creuset pan is all about.  If you’re not familiar with them, this means nothing, but if you are, you’ll completely understand.

Janey is the one who is stalling here.  And she does truly care what has happened to everyone.  It’s a moment of shock, as she’s thrust into a situation she doesn’t understand.

The missing scenes are a love it/hate it kind of thing, I guess.  For me, I’ve always loved this stuff, as it reveals things that you may have been wondering about.  Did you have any reason to think that maybe Danny and Carlie staged their accident?  Did you have any reason to believe that Blackbourn was involved from the start?  Why in the world would a fire poker be lying on the island in the kitchen?  The movie “Wild Things” did a great job with this “trick”, and it totally worked.  The cool thing about this technique is exactly what you’re talking about…people tend to leave before the credits roll, and this is a way to make them stay and watch.  It’s also kind of cool to get to see everyone alive 1 more time, IMO.

I don’t see how Danny sells anything too hard here.  He simply said that Jake was still in the shed and he wanted to see Lisa.  No one seemed to be suspicious over this at all, in the script, and I doubt anyone reading or watching would either.  Did you “know” at this point whether or not Carlie was involved?  My aim was to keep everyone guessing…or at least wondering.

Yeah, just about no one will get the Edguy reference, but I liked it as well.

Cool, glad the writing worked for you, and even happier that you noticed the personalization.  I agree completely that you need stuff like this to add some reality.  Anything that isn’t just same old generic nothingness adds, IMO.

I really tried to give all the characters a voice and personality. Most think I went overboard with this, yet still didn’t really craft unique characters.  I like them all, actually and think with visuals, they’ll be even that much better.

I tried to turn the horror genre on its head, and stay clear of just about all the normal clichés, and structures.  I wanted the kills to be brutal, intense, yet still real.  I think they’re the best kind, as over the top stuff just gets so cheesy and takes away from the believability.   I made most of the kills quite quick, and even “easy” as some said, but you’re right, D & C do tend to stick around and admire their work, so to speak.

The end is hit and miss again.  Yeah, X is Satan, but I wanted this to be very ambiguous and actually, each can read in what they want to.  I have a sequel underway and in it, everything is fleshed out and made clear.

Haven’t seen Martyrs yet, but have wanted to for some time now.  Is it subtitled, or in English?  I’ve heard great things about it.

Glad you enjoyed it overall, James.  I did my best to make sure it was different in its approach and feel, and I feel that I was successful

Thanks again for you time here.  It always helps to hear what people think.

I’ll read your new script when it’s ready.
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James McClung
Posted: July 13th, 2009, 7:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
The end is hit and miss again.  Yeah, X is Satan, but I wanted this to be very ambiguous and actually, each can read in what they want to.  I have a sequel underway and in it, everything is fleshed out and made clear.

Haven’t seen Martyrs yet, but have wanted to for some time now.  Is it subtitled, or in English?  I’ve heard great things about it.


I'll check out the sequel when it's posted. I'll be curious to see where you take this. I think the supernatural business would work better spread over an entire feature rather than brought out all at once at the end.

Martyrs is French with subtitles. It's not a bad film by any means. It's just a little headier and out there than the other French horrors. Sometimes, it works wonders. Others, it's just too ambitious for it's own good. I'd check it out nevertheless. It seems to split people right down the middle but either way, the ending is very unique and bizarre.


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 13th, 2009, 8:47pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy Shawn, thanks for getting started, and posting your feelings. I always appreciate any and all comments, whether positive or negative.  I look forward to hear what you thought of the entire script.  Here are my responses to your feedback.

An investigative background, huh?  Interesting.  I’ll fill you in on the details so maybe the accuracy won’t seem to be way off.

I’m no medical expert, but I would be very surprised if a steak fork rammed through the throat wouldn’t cause mortal injuries most of the time.  He also bounced back onto the hot grill for a second as well, but that’s more for the unique visual.  But the point being here is that all we see is him getting stabbed, falling onto the grill, and then down to the ground, where smoke wafts from his charred head into the sky.  He doesn’t have to be legally dead at this point, and I didn’t say he was.  Yes, he was dead when authorities found the family later, but that could easily have been several cold, snowy days later.

Marshall and Cyndi are married, and Joey is their son.  Marshall is Lloyd’s son.  It’s a huge house and Lloyd and his wife had no reason to go downstairs to the pool room.  Guess they have a rather open family when it comes to nudity and the like.  No sex was stated either…they just happened to be playing around with each other in the buff.

OK, let’s go over the pool kills in detail.  With visuals, you obviously wouldn’t be asking these things, but since this is simply the intro, I purposely used a much more to the point writing style, and left out details…but then again, these sorts of details will rarely if ever be in a spec script, cause you just don’t have the space (or the readers interest) to provide everything on a very technical or exact level.  Here we go, FYI…

No, the boom box has a short cord…that’s why it pulled out of the wall socket so quickly.

Cyndi didn’t feel the full effects of the electrocution, as she was literally getting out of the water as it hit, thus only a portion of her foot was still in the water, and she was thrown out of the pool, onto the cool decking instantly.  Is a scream out of the ordinary here?  I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s something that people would call BS on.

No, it’s not quite Marlinesque.  Many have questioned this, and I understand.  He merely breaks the surface when the current is cut.  Should he be dead already?  Maybe, but maybe not. It’s really impossible to say what will kill someone and what won’t.  Some people have survived 10 gunshot wounds in a series of seconds, while others die from a shot to the leg or arm even.  In this situation, he wasn’t dead yet, and everything inside of him made him do whatever he could to try and help his wife…maybe he was even hallucinating that he was a Marlin, or even an Orca…who knows…

No, Tobias is not standing over Cyndi.  This is a very large pool (I used the word “massive” to describe it)…lets’ say roughly ¾ Olympic size, at 125 by 50 feet.  Let’s say there’s a deck around the outside of another 8 feet on the exterior glass wall.  If the table with the boom box is roughly near the middle, you can see that Tobias was quite a bit away from Cyndi when she got out on the far side (of the deep end).  The ladder she climbed up is near the far corner, some 10-15 feet from the door leading outside.  Tobias also approaches, so he’s closing the distance.  When Marshall does his dolphin/marlin jump, Tobias is “surprised” and misses his target.  Hope that helps clear things up with this scene.

Not so sure about the water color, but in movies that I’m familiar with, it’ll turn red when massive amounts of blood are introduced.  Maybe it’s a movie thing…

The kid is sleeping because he’s a little kid and he’s tired from skiing all day.  Maybe he already ate and was put to bed early.  Maybe he was a little shit on the slopes and he’s being punished now.  I don’t think it matters, actually.


Captain Blackbourn was the one who said he was speaking from the Flight Deck…it wasn’t me.   Is he incorrect in what he’s saying?  Based on what you’re telling me, sounds like he is.  But, do Airline Captains ever say this?  Actually, they do. I’ve heard it numerous times.  But again, is it going to matter to either the passengers on the plane (yes, I could actually write a new scene in here with Danny telling Carlie that the Captain has misspoken, and it could be a funny little scene, but also a worthless scene in most people’s eyes) or the readers?  It hasn’t been one up to now, but I guess that’s a good question.

It’s pretty much spot on for what’s said at the end of many flights, minus actually saying the name of the airline.  The reason for it actually, other than to give you some timing of where they are and what’s going on, is to let the reader (and viewer, of course) know the destination…to know where this script is going to be taking place.

He’s not a kid actually…he’s in his 30’s.  He’s wearing BOSE earphones because he’s a frequent flier and appreciates the “noise cancelling” abilities of these well known and loved earphones.  Is it some product placement?  Yeah, sure it is, but does it also say something about who Danny is? Yeah, definitely.

Shawn, I don’t know that our writing styles are so different, or how they differ so much.  Did I say your writing annoyed me?  Damn, that’s not very nice of me.  Did I at least tell you what the problem was?  I’m sorry my writing style is annoying you…that’s one thing I don’t think I’ve heard yet…oh wait, yes, there was 1 time…medstudent or something, I think…that was interesting…

Well, if I’m failing on being realistic, I’m bummed, cause that’s something that I definitely tried to go with and maintain throughout.  Realism is very important to me…realism within the realms of the movie’s world, that is.  For instance…Wolf Creek= Realism…Wanted = Unrealistic.

Another thing I pride myself on in my writing, is to write visually…cinematically.  I actually think I do this quite well, but I also act like I’m not almost bald when it’s brought up…who knows…maybe I’m missing something that I don’t see.

Only other thing, is that the intro is definitely purposely written differently than the rest of the script.  It’s going to play fast and hit hard, with 5 kills (4 onscreen and 1 assumed with the shotgun blast) in less than 4 minutes, so there’s very little else happening here except for 5 kills.  From here, I altered my writing style again and provided much more details and conversation. I purposely slowed the pace down, and changed the feel (most hate this part of the script coming up).  And then, later, things change again and I think you’ll see that the style of the writing also changes.

Good stuff, Shawn.  I love hearing all angles.  It keeps me on my toes, and any feedback, is great feedback.

Thanks and look forward to hearing what you thought about the next 110 pages.  Take care.
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jwent6688
Posted: July 13th, 2009, 11:37pm Report to Moderator
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Wherever I go, there Jwent.

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Thanks for the recommendation on Rogue. i really liked it. much better than Wolf Creek IMO. I think his experienced paid off in this one. Anyways...

ALWAY SPOILERS...

The croc hits the boat @30 minutes in. I double checked this since you worked me over on the #'s I thru out of my head. Then the shit hits the fan. Yours doesn't hit til around 50 minutes in.

not to mention, maybe because i'm a Yank, but beautiful location and we get to learn a little about crocs. How they will telegraph their prey, learn what they do. And some nice character revelations.... The sad man who bought 2 tickets and dumped ashes into the river.

Obviously we differ on opinion of your bar scene, and i think that's evident since you like the new Friday the 13th and i thought it was a turd.

Be that as it may, I'm far from the first person to complain about the bar scene being too long or unproductive. I know they say you get 10 pages to hook the reader. You've got a good opening scene, but will you be able to keep them for 47? Probably gonna be some underpaid/overworked film school student reading your script for an agency. Will they make it to that great payoff? i dunno.

Good luck to you, I'd love to see someone on here i've been chatting with get optioned. Or even have their idea bought out.  I still think this could be better early on though, but that's my opinioin....    James


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 14th, 2009, 12:46am Report to Moderator
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Hey Cleveland, are you happy about Shaq comin’ your way? I’m a lifelong Lakers fan, so I’m happy this year.  Last year?   I broke a door in my house, and I never even replaced it.  Always loved big Shaq Daddy though…from his rookie year.

Cool!  Glad you liked Rogue.  What a great, under-appreciated flick.  You liked it better than Wolf Creek?  Funny, cause Rogue will go down as probably the bottom 10% of all movies in terms of return, and Wolf Creek is most likely in the top 30% or so.

I loved both movies. Funny what you said, cause maybe the extra 25 times the capital behind it also had something to do with it.  Crazy how the Weinsteins threw all that money into Rogue.  I think Greg Mclean is a frickin’ genius in terms of his vision and what he gets out of his people on set.  Would love to meet him!

I hear what you’re saying about the timing in Rogue…I haven’t timed it, so I’ll trust you.  This is a different beast though, compared to my script.   The croc may hit at 30 minutes, but there haven’t been any kills or even scares up till then.  I’ve already got 6 kills in…but the big thing is this…as I keep saying.  My script is going to play out much faster than 1 page equaling 1 minute.  50 pages is gong to clock in around 40-42 minutes.  Wolf Creek had literally a 45 minute build…and no one died, and only 3 characters were fully intro’d.

But, James, bottom line is this for me, at least…I’m not trying to follow or copy anything in terms of going along tick for tick.  I want this to be different. I want this to be something that people like you and I will be bringing up 2 years from now.  Molds are meant to be broken.  I’m not a follower…can’t do it.

You also get beautiful location with mine!  Wicked, gorgeous snow storm, everything covered in white…so pristine.  Big beautiful houses, cool settings.  A fun bar, a live band…Hell, a little Golden Tee even!

I completely agree with you, James, that the bar scene is long, drawn out, meandering, and not entirely needed.  But as it is, I like it more than I don’t like it, and I honestly feel that it’s a main reason why the initial kill hits so strongly.  I definitely hear you though here, man.

You are in good company with your thoughts about the bar scene…basically everyone says the same thing.  I’d rather have more than less, and if it has to go, so be it.

Thanks, bud.  Late!
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Ledbetter
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 10:03pm Report to Moderator
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Hey brother, I wanted to get back to you on the review . First off, a couple of comments on your reply before we move on.

(Dreamscale said)
An investigative background, huh?  Interesting.  I’ll fill you in on the details so maybe the accuracy won’t seem to be way off.

Thanks for helping to clear some things up.


(Dreamscale said)
I’m no medical expert, but I would be very surprised if a steak fork rammed through the throat wouldn’t cause mortal injuries most of the time.  

It wont 90% of the time.

(Dreamscale said)
Marshall and Cyndi are married, and Joey is their son.  Marshall is Lloyd’s son.  It’s a huge house and Lloyd and his wife had no reason to go downstairs to the pool room.  Guess they have a rather open family when it comes to nudity and the like.  No sex was stated either…they just happened to be playing around with each other in the buff.

I guess I am seeing this differient. Explaining it doesn't show it. I believe this is called unfilmables. If you are explaining all of this, I guess in real time, it is simply left up to the reader to interpret it. The question is, should you have to explain this much of should the writing paint a clear concise picture leaving nothing to chance?


(Dreamscale said)
OK, let’s go over the pool kills in detail.  With visuals, you obviously wouldn’t be asking these things, but since this is simply the intro, I purposely used a much more to the point writing style, and left out details…but then again, these sorts of details will rarely if ever be in a spec script, cause you just don’t have the space (or the readers interest) to provide everything on a very technical or exact level.  Here we go, FYI…


This isn't a spec script?


(Dreamscale said)
No, the boom box has a short cord…that’s why it pulled out of the wall socket so quickly.

Dreanscale, Your writing is great, but unless this cord is like 15 feet long, this doesn't make sense.


(Dreamscale said)
Cyndi didn’t feel the full effects of the electrocution,

show it, don't expalin it brother.

(Dreamscale said)
as she was literally getting out of the water as it hit, thus only a portion of her foot was still in the water, and she was thrown out of the pool, onto the cool decking instantly.  Is a scream out of the ordinary here?  I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s something that people would call BS on.

Fair enough. But accuracy is important on these things man. Thats all.


(Dreamscale said)
No, it’s not quite Marlinesque.  Many have questioned this, and I understand.  He merely breaks the surface when the current is cut.  Should he be dead already?  Maybe, but maybe not. It’s really impossible to say what will kill someone and what won’t.  Some people have survived 10 gunshot wounds in a series of seconds, while others die from a shot to the leg or arm even.  In this situation, he wasn’t dead yet, and everything inside of him made him do whatever he could to try and help his wife…maybe he was even hallucinating that he was a Marlin, or even an Orca…who knows…


Very funny man. VERY FUNNY.


(Dreamscale said)
No, Tobias is not standing over Cyndi.

He walks up to her. Right? As per your script. How close is that?

This is a very large pool (I used the word “massive” to describe it)…lets’ say roughly ¾ Olympic size, at 125 by 50 feet.  Let’s say there’s a deck around the outside of another 8 feet on the exterior glass wall.  If the table with the boom box is roughly near the middle, you can see that Tobias was quite a bit away from Cyndi when she got out on the far side (of the deep end).  The ladder she climbed up is near the far corner, some 10-15 feet from the door leading outside.  Tobias also approaches, so he’s closing the distance.  When Marshall does his dolphin/marlin jump, Tobias is “surprised” and misses his target.  Hope that helps clear things up with this scene.


In all honesty, I fell none of this makes any sense. You explaining all of this feels as though you are being condesending to some point. Your script simply said HE WALKED UP TO HER.  Who gives a shit about the size of the pool?


(Dreamscale said)
Not so sure about the water color, but in movies that I’m familiar with, it’ll turn red when massive amounts of blood are introduced.  Maybe it’s a movie thing…

i did say it was a small thing.

(Dreamscale said)
The kid is sleeping because he’s a little kid and he’s tired from skiing all day.  Maybe he already ate and was put to bed early.  Maybe he was a little s*** on the slopes and he’s being punished now.  I don’t think it matters, actually.

We again go to coheasivness of the story, much like what I have been trying to point out. I like the story and have read 90% of it, but I felt it important to revisit this before I went on to the remainder of the story. After all, it does set the stage for the entire script.

(Dreamscale said)
Captain Blackbourn was the one who said he was speaking from the Flight Deck…it wasn’t me.  

Sure it was you man. You wrote it. That comment was kinda wierd.


(Dreamscale said)
Is he incorrect in what he’s saying?  Based on what you’re telling me, sounds like he is.  But, do Airline Captains ever say this?  Actually, they do. I’ve heard it numerous times.


Hello, this is your captian speaking from the fligh deck, 32,000 feet below....


(Dreamscale said)
But again, is it going to matter to either the passengers on the plane (yes, I could actually write a new scene in here with Danny telling Carlie that the Captain has misspoken, and it could be a funny little scene, but also a worthless scene in most people’s eyes) or the readers?  It hasn’t been one up to now, but I guess that’s a good question.

I'm anal...Thats all.

(Dreamscale said)
It’s pretty much spot on for what’s said at the end of many flights, minus actually saying the name of the airline.  The reason for it actually, other than to give you some timing of where they are and what’s going on, is to let the reader (and viewer, of course) know the destination…to know where this script is going to be taking place.

No issues other than it seemed unreal. To me that is.

(Dreamscale said)
He’s not a kid actually…he’s in his 30’s.  He’s wearing BOSE earphones because he’s a frequent flier and appreciates the “noise cancelling” abilities of these well known and loved earphones.  Is it some product placement?  Yeah,


Yes, but that's not a bad thing...is it?  


(Dreamscale said)
Shawn, I don’t know that our writing styles are so different, or how they differ so much.  Did I say your writing annoyed me?  d*rn, that’s not very nice of me.  Did I at least tell you what the problem was?  I’m sorry my writing style is annoying you…that’s one thing I don’t think I’ve heard yet…oh wait, yes, there was 1 time…medstudent or something, I think…that was interesting…

We all Have differient styes and I personally think you are an outstanding writer who has great talent. In fact, I havent gone after any writer as deeply as I have you. Not because I think we are at odds, but because I think you have true talent and you can take what ever is presented to you to better your creative style. Other wise, I would simply give the patented, Oh, it's great speach.



(Dreamscale said)
Well, if I’m failing on being realistic, I’m bummed, cause that’s something that I definitely tried to go with and maintain throughout.  Realism is very important to me…realism within the realms of the movie’s world, that is.  For instance…Wolf Creek= Realism…Wanted = Unrealistic.

Look, I'm not even sure what realism is with regard to writing as all of you are, I am simply finding my way as my words lend.


(Dreamscale said)
Another thing I pride myself on in my writing, is to write visually…cinematically.  I actually think I do this quite well, but I also act like I’m not almost bald when it’s brought up…who knows…maybe I’m missing something that I don’t see.

I view and write far more graphicly almost  to a porographic level. I don't think I honestly have any filters to  filter and hone like you do. I write raw and hard. I wish I had your skill. Truley I do.

(Dreamscale said)
Only other thing, is that the intro is definitely purposely written differently than the rest of the script.  It’s going to play fast and hit hard, with 5 kills (4 onscreen and 1 assumed with the shotgun blast) in less than 4 minutes, so there’s very little else happening here except for 5 kills.  From here, I altered my writing style again and provided much more details and conversation. I purposely slowed the pace down, and changed the feel (most hate this part of the script coming up).  And then, later, things change again and I think you’ll see that the style of the writing also changes.


I will finish the script this weekend and get back to you. You remember what I said about my reading speed? Right?

Take care.
Shawn.....><
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Ledbetter
Posted: July 18th, 2009, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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OK, Jeff
After finishing your script, I decided to go through and read a few comments on what others were saying about it. This post has been out there for some time, Eh?

it's longevity speaks volumes of the quality of work you have done here.

I have also noticed many repeated things regarding small issues with this or that. Hell, I think this bird has been pretty well picked. So with that said, I wont be going through and nit picking like I started to do. Instead I would like to simply offer my opinion.

GREAT FUCKING READ MAN. Once in the saddle, I really enjoyed it. The pace (for the most part) moved right along.

Your story was engaging and well thought out. I can tell you enjoyed writing this very much. It comes through on the page. Sorry it took me so long to get through it. I have reading issues. But this script was well worth the time.

Let me know what else you have that I can read.

Take care.
Shawn.....><
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