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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  Fade to White Moderators: bert
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 1st, 2012, 8:59am Report to Moderator
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Hi Catherine.  I've got to give you 4 "Thank You's".

Thank you for requesting the latest version.

Thank you for reading it so quickly.

Thank you for the great feedback.

Biggest thanks for nailing pretty much everything here.  It's rare that I am in almost complete agreement with feedback, but I must say that I am here.

It's nice that a bunch of things that usually don't get commented on, got commented on.

Just a quick note on your comment that "the writing outshines the story".  First of all, I think you're right.  But more importantly, I want to make it very clear that the story at play here was never meant to change the world.  In fact, it was simply my anger and disappointment with 95%+ of all horror movies being piss poor that lead me to write this.

The story is very simple but the execution and structure is where i wanted to make a statement.  I also wanted my characters to act and speak like real peeps.  I didn't want my characters acting like complete idiots and doing things that lead to their demise.  I also didn't want any plot holes or leaps in believability.

What I originally conceived is what I call the antithesis of the standard horror or slasher film.  I wanted to turn the entire genre upside down, on its head.  Most people don't see this or understand it, but if you really look closer, you'll find pretty much every single expected horror/slasher expectation/cliche has been switched around or completely omitted.  On top of that, I wanted to write something that had everything I look for and enjoy in a movie.

Most do not like the majority of the characters, but if you dig a little deeper (as you said), they do bring something to the table and although some are taken out rather easily and quickly because they didn't see it coming, others put up a good fight and show some "character" in the process.

I'm glad you enjoyed it and stuck with it, Catherine.  Your feedback is short, sweet, and to the point and I'm in complete agreement with everything you brought up.

Thanks again.  It's appreciated!
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leitskev
Posted: August 1st, 2012, 9:20am Report to Moderator
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I had another nickle to spare, so here goes.

I think Catherine is right about that Xavier dialogue. I think that should be changed. However, I think as a character, he can remain.

Remember the movie Trading Places? And the bet between the two rich dudes? That might be kind of the point here. Xavier believes he can turn even the most unlikely of people into brutal killers. And he doesn't even have to destroy them to do it.

I don't know if you could do this in a film, or how, but if if this were a novel, you could show how he turns them into killers. I believe the psychological phenomena is called cognitive dissonance. Basically, you convince someone to do something they would not normally do, something there conscience would not allow. You start with something small. Doing something against one's conscience causes discomfit. To deal with it, the mind alters itself. The conscience changes, and the person convinces themselves that what they did was somehow right and even good. To get someone to become a killer in this way, one would do this by degrees, getting people to commit little acts that were progressively more violent.

The only way I could think of showing that kind of thing here would be this: at some point later in the story, you begin showing Xavier with a new couple, getting them to commit some act of violence. For example, the new couple sneaks up on a police car that is idling while the cop directs traffic. The couple reaches in, puts the car in neutral, and slips away as the car rolls down into traffic causing an accident. The couple climbs into the car of the waiting Xavier. They are excited. Xavier turns to them: "do you feel alive now?"

Just an idea.  This kind of thing would show us what Xavier is up to without having to say it. It doesn't explain why Xavier does it, but we don't need to explain why the devil does what he does now, do we? And even if he is only the devil allegorically, it's probably better if we leave his motivations pure and understood: he's evil.
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 1st, 2012, 10:46am Report to Moderator
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Thanks, Kev.  I'm saving all these pennies and nickles and will hopefully be able to buy a plane ticket to FL to hang at the Hippo for Pia and Bert's grand premier of Them That's Dead!



Maybe I'm incorrect, but I didn't feel that Catherine was saying X's dialogue didn't work in the example she quoted, but more so that D & C didn't quite "measure up" to X...or that the quote dialogue said more than the rest of the script did.

Anyways...I do appreciate all the feedback and back and forth ideas.  I honestly do.  But, I think you continue to miss the point of all this, and want to make it something it's not intended to be, or maybe "more" than it's intended to be.  IMO, that's a mistake, and it's a mistake I don't want to make.

The reveal at the very end about X is not supposed to be anything other than reasoning, and another "twist", for lack of better words.  It's something to think about, but it's not what the script is about, in any way.  I definitely don't want it brought up earlier and I don't want it expanded.  It ties Tobias in with the whole "scheme" and gives a reason for why D & C (and Tobais) do what they did.  And, it sets up a sequel with Blacky - you know you have to end with an open end that reeks of sequel, right?

But to take your idea a step further - there's no training program here.  It's literally trial by fire - you succeed and live, or you fail and die (or spend the rest of your life behind bars).  It's survival of the fittest and it's no holds barred.

That's my 4 cents wroth, at least.  Thanks for playing along, bro.  It's appreciated.
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leitskev
Posted: August 1st, 2012, 11:00am Report to Moderator
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I spent more than twenty years behind bars! What are you saying?!

Oh, that kind of bars.  

It's cool. I know my nickles and pennies don't help much. But you never know. When I was a kid, my mother always gave me a quarter when I went out in case I needed to call for help(don't say anything about a dime!). So maybe my pennies and nickles will add up some day and get you out of a jam.

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c m hall
Posted: August 1st, 2012, 11:32am Report to Moderator
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Re: Xavier -- yes, I think that character is essential, even the way that Danny and Carlie seem flimsy next to Xavier is important -- but it was jolting how stark the difference was.   This was disturbing to me in a good way, as far as the story goes; I realized that I was expecting /hoping that Danny and Carlie would seem less like ordinary people by that point.


Also disturbing, there are moments in Fade To White when one almost (or maybe actually) roots for efficiency in the killings rather than mercy -- and those are EEEK! moments for me (good stretches of the imagination and conscience, the "it's interesting when people die" moments (from the song Dirty Laundry)).  I commend a story that pulls and pushes a reader to think and feel new things and this story certainly does that.
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 1st, 2012, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from c m hall
Also disturbing, there are moments in Fade To White when one almost (or maybe actually) roots for efficiency in the killings rather than mercy -- and those are EEEK! moments for me (good stretches of the imagination and conscience, the "it's interesting when people die" moments (from the song Dirty Laundry)).  I commend a story that pulls and pushes a reader to think and feel new things and this story certainly does that.


Cool!  Glad to hear that, Catherine.  Really glad, actually.  In the beginning, my goal or hope was that some peeps would actually be rooting for D & C, as I didn't want them to come across as pure "bad guys".  Kind of like Mickey and Mallory in Natural Born Killers.  Sure, they're despicable, but there's something about them that you want to root for in a weird way.

Hey, I also forgot to mention that I love your logline - but I love it as a tagline, not a logline.  It really says something powerful and I love that.  BUT - I need a logline that doesn't give anything away and still gets across the basics of the script.

Thanks!!!

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c m hall
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 2:37pm Report to Moderator
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maybe it's because I've been doing some housecleaning today but ---
bypassing the logline, what about this for a promo -

SPOILERS

"Once you know what you want... everything becomes clear... right?"

(series of images, each transformed by some kind of blinding white frame)

     Carlie gazes at the toddler on the plane,
     Carlie joyfully spies a new jacket she wants,
     Carlie stretches out her tongue for a snowflake,
     Carlie, blood stained, approaches Nicole in the steam filled bathroom
     Steam gathers around Nicole's face -- baffled, frightened

"Once you know what you want... everything becomes clear... right?"
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Pale Yellow
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 2:54pm Report to Moderator
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Hmmm you need to take that and MAKE a trailer!
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 3:16pm Report to Moderator
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Catherine, i love those visuals, but again, you have to understand that certain things cannot be revealed, and this is one of them.

Appreciate the ideas, though for sure.  Thanks!
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c m hall
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 3:52pm Report to Moderator
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"certain things cannot be revealed, and this is one of them."


so right! I should have thought of that

brain freeze, for me
(this script made a cool impression)
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Pale Yellow
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 4:47pm Report to Moderator
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The things Catherine suggested could be done in a way that you don't give anything about about Carlie.

Even the part with blood on her in the steamy bathroom. WE wouldn't know if she was the one in trouble or she was the one causing the trouble.

I think a way to pitch an idea or a story could be with a trailer similar to this! That is what jumped into my head when I read Catherines idea! very kewl.
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 5:15pm Report to Moderator
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OK, if I only had $25,000 or so and happened to be a great DP or the like, with some killer equipment and talented actors, I could make that 30 second trailer.

But alas, I have none of the above...

Back to the drawing board...

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Mr.Ripley
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff

SPOILERS!

Got to finish the revised version, and I'm sorry to say I didn't care much about this.

I think the biggest problem in this script is why are they killing the group of people. There is a reason, but it's not revealed or is unclear.

Also, you have a lot of characters, especially a few that start with J. lol. Have Carlie, Danny, and 4 main characters. That's it.

Combine Nicole, Megan and the other characters. The ones I think should stay is Johnny, Janelle, Martin and a woman for Martin. You can make a story out of them for this feature. It could be a double date type of thing.  

Sorry. Hope this helps.

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 2nd, 2012, 10:35pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for reading, Gabe.  I appreciate it.

Characters are not being cut.  This is an exercise in killing, and 4 ain't gonna do it.

Sorry you didn't like the read, but all feedback is appreciated.

Take care, man.
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nawazm11
Posted: August 3rd, 2012, 5:51am Report to Moderator
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Finish this earlier today but my comp had a bitch and turned off whilst I have writing the notes.

My thoughts on the revised draft?

SPOILERS

A potentially good script but not without it's problems. I'll start by saying I enjoyed reading this, some bits better than others.

What really ruins it though was what Gabe said above. I really cannot handle the fact that they're killing because this old Mexican guy told them to, I cannot buy it. It's just stupid, why would they do it? Because of that, the whole script just falls for me. What was the point? They really need a stronger motive or at least a little more elaboration on it.

The character count, man, was that big. I had to get myself a word doc out and write their names so I wouldn't forget who was who. Eventually though, I could just remember them from their personality, which is great because I thought all your characters (except the killers) were really deep and had some great back story, even the cop.

The writing, not including the one too many "Sickening THUDs", was great. Really shows the difference between an amateur and someone who can actually write. This made for an easy read but I still stumbled at a few points.

Now, the opening pages were amazing, some of the best I've ever read but a lot of the tension just trailed off at The Horny Toad. Obviously you had to introduce and develop the characters somehow but really, it just dragged. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad on screen?

As it stands now, it doesn't work for me. Only because the killers seem only be killing because you told them to. There is currently no story. Just a recount of what happened, which can work sometimes, but not here. In the end, everyone dies and the killers live happily ever after, thinking as if they were the good guys.

I still didn't hate it though, a lot better than the stuff I've read.
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