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Hey Jeffro, this has to be a completely different version than from what I read a couple years ago. My memory is a little hazy and I don't remember specifics, but I do remember that I liked the previous draft I read over. It was a fun script, and you got a lot of complaints about certain elements that, at the time, I didn't mind. However, I think I have changed as a writer because I have some issues with this script now.
As I was reading, for some weird reason, I thought of Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday, my favorite Friday the 13th/Jason movie. It gets a lot of flack. Flack isn't even the word. It gets a lot of shit. I can understand why, to some extent, but it gets ridiculous. Anyway, if you have watched the commentary track of JGTH -- which IMO is one of the best (and funniest) out there -- director Adam Marcus and writer Dean Lorey talk about "The Sean Cunningham school of filmmaking". . . or something along those lines. The rules were: every 7 or 11 pages there must be a death or some nudity (paraphrasing). I guess it was Cunningham's way of thinking: you have one of those 2 things every few minutes and you won't have a boring horror flick.
However, I think the film would stand on it's own feet without those rules because the stakes are so high, the urgency is there, and we have likable characters who have goals they need to achieve or they're fucking dead. Steven wants to make things right with his estranged wife, Jessica, so he can be with her and their baby again as a family. Later, Steven finds out he has to protect Jessica and his baby from Jason because of the shared bloodline. Jessica is an independent woman who tries to fight for her baby's life on her own. Robert is the greedy news reporter and new man dating Jessica and doesn't care about Jessica at all, just the ratings, and will use her to get them, even going so far as hiring bounty hunter Creighton Duke to bring him the head of Jason Voorhees on live TV. The Duke's girlfriend was killed a long time ago by Jason and now he wants revenge, and then he takes up the bounty for money, and then later it's not about the money: its just about doing the right thing. Shit, even Jason himself, has a goal: to be reborn again. Even the smaller characters throughout the film have goals. A lot of shit is happening, a lot of shit is going down. I'm 60 pages into Fade to White, and not much is happening, not a whole lot of shit is going down.
Sure, we have mysterious Tobias butchering a family in the very beginning, a hobo buying his ticket on page 11. . . and not another death for another 35 pages (LOL Sean Cunningham wouldn't be proud with this). There's just a bunch of drunk characters drinking and talking and nobody is going after anything. I guess you could say Martin's goal is to get with Janelle and the one lesbo wants to get with the other chick, but those aren't really major goals that are keeping me interested. I'm pretty sure from the previous draft, that Danny and Carlie's goal is to kill everybody because that's what the devil wants, but I even found that to be sort of lackluster (I was never fond of the ending you had for this). Back to talking about nothing going on: page 52 and some of our characters are still at the bar? That's almost an hour into the film and we haven't moved forward yet. I don't want to keep going back to JGTH (like I said, for some weird reason while reading, I thought of it), but by the 50 minute mark, I'm pretty sure everything was out in the open and everyone was fighting for something, shit was going down, you did what you had to do or it was your fucking ass.
I know you are a fan of slow build up and that's cool, but I don't think it works here. IMO, there's no real sense of impending doom, there's no shit-storm that feels like it's just around the corner. Sure, you have brutal murders, but it doesn't really matter when all of your characters are always drunk, laughing, and still hanging out at The Horney Toad. Your formatting and grammar and spelling and all that stuff, perfect, great job, made it a clear and easy read. Story and character wise? Not so easy. It became a chore and I stopped on page 60. I remember you saying in your other thread that you liked Unforgettable more than Fade to White, and while I wasn't a huge fan of Unforgettable, I think I'm inclined to agree with you. Unforgettable had characters that were all going after something -- and all from the very beginning -- and there was even some mystery to boot. You'll probably disagree with me, but that's OK, and don't think I'm getting down on you just because you trashed Every Day I Die. Haha, I know that was shit! So I'm not trying to get even. Plus, you liked The Big Fade, and I liked your very first draft of Fade to White. We've been pals and have talked off and on since we met at SS. You know I'm not trying to be a dick, just being honest in the most polite way possible.
No problem, Jeff. I think I've contributed all I can, my hope is that you've gotten something out of it. I know I have. So, thanks!
BLB
Commodus: But the Emperor Claudius knew that they were up to something. He knew they were busy little bees. And one night he sat down with one of them and he looked at her and he said, "Tell me what you have been doing, busy little bee..."
Do you think your non standard approach may be the cause for having difficult creating a premise?
By premise, do you mean logline? If so, then Hell yes! It's a big issue I can't seem to get around, as the "twist" midway through can't be revealed in the log, and by not revealing it, it's almost impossible to describe the premise.
Horror can be a narrow form, but symbolic if not thematic. I don't think it's necessary to have a character change. I do think that it's a great tool for horror to have; or, at least, they have a symbolic/thematic aspect, even if that aspect is inferred. Probably, better if it is just inferred creating subtext, an undercurrent.
I agree at it's core horror is about one thing, 'survival.' But that in it of it's self can raise many questions, what is 'survival,' mental, moral, spiritual, physical which can lead to many more angles given context/world.
I hear you. You know I'm not into all the character arc crap, but in its place and done correctly and not cheesily, it can work well for sure.
What we have here is straight up survival horror and I really didn't want it to be much else, which seems to be an isue with some folks who want more. I think peeps try and read things into all sorts of things, like movies, for example. Certain things may be prevelant if you look for them and try to draw them out, but IMO that's never really what makes something work or not work.
Since, I addressed the ending, I'm going to make my way back to the beginning of the story and it's structure. The motivation and desire of the protagonist, Danny and Carlie. The desire of Danny and Carlie is to kill. Kill who the group of kids. This is straight forward desire and a driving force. It comes on a little late, but when it does it's clear and watch out. We will know whether they have succeeded or not in accomplishing the desire.
The motivation, as far as we know when the story opens, these two have little motivation for what is about to transpire. When Carlie informs Danny about Johnny and the incident in the bathroom, this could have been perceived as the flame that ignites Danny's fuse, however, Johnny isn't present at the house, so there's no tension for that, and I don't think that's what you were going for anyway. Another thing on the motivation. I'm going to refer to the end here, briefly. It's as if you took the scene that would have provided motivation, the scene with Xavier, and placed it at the end. Chronological it is the beginning, it still is the motivation, the office/money. I understand that's by design, but with that in mind, the scene before where Carlie explains to Blackbourn how Danny had to kill the bum in order to reassure himself he could go through with it. That was the potential for change I was talking about. He was struggling with something, he wasn't just a killer at the start of the story. Are they killer's before the story takes place? If so, why this scene with that explanation?
No, D & C have never killed before...never even thought about it. They're not bad people and in fact, they're good, cool people. But as Xavier mentions near the end, "it takes a certain kind, a certain mindset" and D & C are this certain kind and have that certain mindset. And what is that? It's the ability to do whatever it takes to obtain something they desire or need. IMO, it relates back to the age old saying, "there's a price for everything" or "everyone has their price", which can be taken many different ways. But in this situation, D & C are willing to literally turn into serial killers to get what they "need". The backstory of what they need and why they need it has been cut long ago, and is only crypticly glossed over, as I don't think it really matters or needs to come into play.
I hate using the "excuse" of looking at other movies or the like, but in this regard I'm going to - the vast majority of horror movies have little or no motivation for what takes place. When there is, it's cliche city, or just downright weak. IMO, movies of this nature don't need or rely on motivations, character arcs, etc. I know many disagree with me on this, but it's truly the way I feel.
Danny & Carlie are doing a lot of the planning, thinking and action. That's great for plot, yet I do wonder if you're missing out on having the group of kids be so passive. Then again, having them be caught of guard provides an element of surprise.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I don't call the group of Protags/victims passive. They're here to party and ski. Some may be looking to hook up, some to reconnect, but they're thrown into a situation which none will escape based on sheer bad luck and nothing else.
It was one of my biggest goals to not have anyone make stupid decisions that would lead to their downfall. It was another goal to make sure everyone has an equal chance of survival, kind of like Xavier's rules of a level playing field.
Sure, I could have added in various little issues between the kids, and in some ways, I did, but the issues I threw in are all real life type things, not obviously made up and added to up character arcs or the like.
I really just wanted to keep things very simple and provide what I thought and hoped would be a fun, wild, bloody ride.
James, I thank you again, as your thoughts and comments are well put togther.
Hey Reap, sorry for the late response, but the long weekend had my brain pickled in Jagermeister. My girlie and I actually went through 2 1/2 bottles of the elixir. Oh my...
Thanks for attempting to read this again. No one has to like this and I know it's not for everyone. Your thoughts and feelings are important, whether or not they are positive.
Hey Jeffro, this has to be a completely different version than from what I read a couple years ago. My memory is a little hazy and I don't remember specifics, but I do remember that I liked the previous draft I read over. It was a fun script, and you got a lot of complaints about certain elements that, at the time, I didn't mind. However, I think I have changed as a writer because I have some issues with this script now.
Well, it is indeed the final draft, but I wouldn't say it's completely different at all. It's shorter, it's tighter, and much of the infamous Horny Toad banter scenes have been removed, but basically, it's still the exact same story/plot, etc.
If you enjoyed it before, in theory, you should enjoy this version more, but it seems that's not the case.
At its heart, it is extremely simple and it's definitely meant to be that way.
As I was reading, for some weird reason, I thought of Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday, my favorite Friday the 13th/Jason movie. It gets a lot of flack. Flack isn't even the word. It gets a lot of shit. I can understand why, to some extent, but it gets ridiculous. Anyway, if you have watched the commentary track of JGTH -- which IMO is one of the best (and funniest) out there -- director Adam Marcus and writer Dean Lorey talk about "The Sean Cunningham school of filmmaking". . . or something along those lines. The rules were: every 7 or 11 pages there must be a death or some nudity (paraphrasing). I guess it was Cunningham's way of thinking: you have one of those 2 things every few minutes and you won't have a boring horror flick.
However, I think the film would stand on it's own feet without those rules because the stakes are so high, the urgency is there, and we have likable characters who have goals they need to achieve or they're fucking dead. Steven wants to make things right with his estranged wife, Jessica, so he can be with her and their baby again as a family. Later, Steven finds out he has to protect Jessica and his baby from Jason because of the shared bloodline. Jessica is an independent woman who tries to fight for her baby's life on her own. Robert is the greedy news reporter and new man dating Jessica and doesn't care about Jessica at all, just the ratings, and will use her to get them, even going so far as hiring bounty hunter Creighton Duke to bring him the head of Jason Voorhees on live TV. The Duke's girlfriend was killed a long time ago by Jason and now he wants revenge, and then he takes up the bounty for money, and then later it's not about the money: its just about doing the right thing. Shit, even Jason himself, has a goal: to be reborn again. Even the smaller characters throughout the film have goals. A lot of shit is happening, a lot of shit is going down. I'm 60 pages into Fade to White, and not much is happening, not a whole lot of shit is going down.
I am familiar with all the Friday the 13th movies and saw most of them in the theater. The first 2 were good and still stand on their own 2 legs today, IMO, but from then on, they got progressively worse to the point where, for me, they're mostly unwatchable. I'd have to lump JGTH in there as well.
The character study and the plot points you bring up, to me, at least, are about as cliche and silly as they get. At this point in Friday's life cycle, no one was taking anything seriously, and IMO, reading into such a script/movie, or trying to take it seriously is a big mistake.
Your last sentence in the above quote says that 60 pages in, and not much is happening or has gone down, which is very surprising to me...but then again, if you are indeed comparing this to a Friday the 13th-like movie, I do understand. I do not prey at the altar of Sean S. Cunningham, but then again, you should probably check his IMDB page out, as the vast majority of his work is as a Producer, not writer or Director.
But, although this is a slow build and meandering script, by page 60, things have definitely heated up, and I'm surprised you'd stick around this long, and say this now, as opposed to baling much earlier and saying the same thing.
Sure, we have mysterious Tobias butchering a family in the very beginning, a hobo buying his ticket on page 11. . . and not another death for another 35 pages (LOL Sean Cunningham wouldn't be proud with this). There's just a bunch of drunk characters drinking and talking and nobody is going after anything. I guess you could say Martin's goal is to get with Janelle and the one lesbo wants to get with the other chick, but those aren't really major goals that are keeping me interested. I'm pretty sure from the previous draft, that Danny and Carlie's goal is to kill everybody because that's what the devil wants, but I even found that to be sort of lackluster (I was never fond of the ending you had for this). Back to talking about nothing going on: page 52 and some of our characters are still at the bar? That's almost an hour into the film and we haven't moved forward yet. I don't want to keep going back to JGTH (like I said, for some weird reason while reading, I thought of it), but by the 50 minute mark, I'm pretty sure everything was out in the open and everyone was fighting for something, shit was going down, you did what you had to do or it was your fucking ass.
Uh...yeah. No big important goals or character arcs on display here. That's for sure and again, although you and others may not feel it's right or makes sense, it is done this way on purpose.
As to characters still being at the bar by page whatever - yes, true...but, 1 thing I've said over the years and I'll say again now, is to pay close attention to the different groupings and dynamics that take place - sometimes concurrently, and other times at different times completely.
I watch alot of movies..damn, I mean alot of fucking movies and I've come to realize something over the years and it amazes me that others don't see it or get it. There is a reason why some scenes seem so long and dull and others that may be as long or even longer and contain the same content, zip right along.
It's what I call the "anti-talking heads syndrome". It's not what it sounds like it should be and my "name" for it doesn't really make sense, but let me explain.
When you read a script, you'll see many talking head scenarios going on. Especially in amateur scripts. But, hold the phone a minute, because they're obviously super prevalent in just about all Pro scripts as well, because they show up in just about all movies, and it's downright shocking how fucking dull and poorly done most are.
But the reality, to me, at least, is that talking head scenarios don't have to be super dull and when you have more than 2 peeps in the scene, the potential entertainment level sky rockets. Have something or things taking place around the conversation, and again, your potential to not bore your audience into a trance goes way up, and the "talking heads" scenes become "anti talking heads" scenes.
So what the fuck am I saying or trying to say? I'm saying that these various groupings at the bar are there to show these character's character, and I wanted to do it through normal everyday situations, conversation, and interaction. Many will say I failed miserably, but I think those that can actually visualize the scene will feel differently...at least that's my hope.
Another thing I have to say (again, as I've said it many times in the past), is that you have to keep in mind that there is a large group here and dialogue heavy scenes take more space than dialogue light scenes. The more peeps you have talking, the more space you eat up....especially when you have quick, constant back and forths between multiple peeps. Bottom line is that these Horny Toad scenes will play out much quicker than it apperars they will, based on page count, and I also beleive they won't come across so stale and dull, because of the different groupings I've put together.
I know you are a fan of slow build up and that's cool, but I don't think it works here. IMO, there's no real sense of impending doom, there's no shit-storm that feels like it's just around the corner. Sure, you have brutal murders, but it doesn't really matter when all of your characters are always drunk, laughing, and still hanging out at The Horney Toad. Your formatting and grammar and spelling and all that stuff, perfect, great job, made it a clear and easy read. Story and character wise? Not so easy. It became a chore and I stopped on page 60. I remember you saying in your other thread that you liked Unforgettable more than Fade to White, and while I wasn't a huge fan of Unforgettable, I think I'm inclined to agree with you. Unforgettable had characters that were all going after something -- and all from the very beginning -- and there was even some mystery to boot. You'll probably disagree with me, but that's OK, and don't think I'm getting down on you just because you trashed Every Day I Die. Haha, I know that was shit! So I'm not trying to get even. Plus, you liked The Big Fade, and I liked your very first draft of Fade to White. We've been pals and have talked off and on since we met at SS. You know I'm not trying to be a dick, just being honest in the most polite way possible.
Reap, I'm shocked you'd choose to stop on page 60. Things have just really heated up with several kills and some cool, intriguing visuals. The plot is definitely thickening, and you know the group at the bar is on their way back for a confrontation.
The twist reveal has been made and you now know what's going to go down...you just don't know how exactly it's going to go down. By this point, I would imagine you've made a choice about who to root for and who are the Antags and who are the Protags, but it sounds like you don't care, and that's cool, bro.
I prefer honesty in feedback and in no way does this offend me or make me think you're trying to get even for something (and I'm not even sure what script you're referring to in Every Day I Die).
I appreciate your feedback very much, Steve, and understand this ain't your cup of Joe. No problem at all, brother. Thanks again for giving it a look.
I am familiar with all the Friday the 13th movies and saw most of them in the theater. The first 2 were good and still stand on their own 2 legs today, IMO, but from then on, they got progressively worse to the point where, for me, they're mostly unwatchable. I'd have to lump JGTH in there as well.
The character study and the plot points you bring up, to me, at least, are about as cliche and silly as they get. At this point in Friday's life cycle, no one was taking anything seriously, and IMO, reading into such a script/movie, or trying to take it seriously is a big mistake.
Your last sentence in the above quote says that 60 pages in, and not much is happening or has gone down, which is very surprising to me...but then again, if you are indeed comparing this to a Friday the 13th-like movie, I do understand. I do not prey at the altar of Sean S. Cunningham, but then again, you should probably check his IMDB page out, as the vast majority of his work is as a Producer, not writer or Director.
I agree that they are not gems. They do have flaws. However, I been watching those movies since I was a little kid and I always got a kick out of 'em -- mindless entertainment: tits, ass, and bloody good violence. By the time JGTH rolled around, they wanted to try something different. It didn't work for a huge fan base, but it worked for me, and I applaud them for trying something distinct. The cast was older, mature. Teenagers were scarce. They tried a new setting and tried to give some extra back story. The only thing lacking? The star of the movie was hardly in it. They got the Jason formula wrong. Haha, of course a lot of people would say Marcus and Lorey got everything else wrong too, but I strongly disagree. I also strongly disagree that the points I raise are "cliche" and "silly." LOL I am also well aware of how mediocre SSC is. Him I will not defend, but Marcus and Lorey? Talented guys, IMO. We will disagree on this constantly -- day and night -- so let me move on, to discussion of your script:
Quoted from Dreamscale
But, although this is a slow build and meandering script, by page 60, things have definitely heated up, and I'm surprised you'd stick around this long, and say this now, as opposed to baling much earlier and saying the same thing.
I stayed that long because I like you, buddy. I figured, might as well keep going, see if things change for me... Yes things do start to "heat up" around that 60 page marker but by then I just wasn't into it. The first person of the group got killed and I didn't even think, "damn, so-and-so just got it! That fuckin sucks..." I also felt since I read Fade to White once before, it would be OK for me to drop out the second time around if I wasn't digging it.
Quoted from Dreamscale
Uh...yeah. No big important goals or character arcs on display here. That's for sure and again, although you and others may not feel it's right or makes sense, it is done this way on purpose.
Sometimes a movie with characters who have no goals (or very little goals) can be amazing. Look at The Shawshank Redemption. The characters are just so real and entertaining we forget about all that shit. Now, in no way am I comparing The Big Fade to Shawshank, but a couple months back I sent out a draft to several people on here, and the reviews I received were mainly: your characters don't really have strong goals but the script was good/great/highly entertaining. That's all good and everything, but now I have to strengthen my characters' goals -- and I can only imagine how much of a better read the script will be then. With Fade to White, IMO, I just feel that it was lacking in both departments: entertainment and characters fighting for something.
...but Marcus and Lorey? Talented guys, IMO. We will disagree on this constantly -- day and night
OK, but I'm confused. Adam Marcus wrote and directed this, but what else are you basing his talent on? The only other thing he wrote of any significane is Texas Chainsaw 3D last year. And Dean Lorey, otehr than some TV shows, hasn't done anything that I can see.
If you're seriously basing your comments on their work in JGTH, I'm a little baffled, as that movie was not widely admired in any way, and mostly looked at as a real disappointment.
I stayed that long because I like you, buddy. I figured, might as well keep going, see if things change for me... Yes things do start to "heat up" around that 60 page marker but by then I just wasn't into it. The first person of the group got killed and I didn't even think, "damn, so-and-so just got it! That fuckin sucks..." I also felt since I read Fade to White once before, it would be OK for me to drop out the second time around if I wasn't digging it.
Thanks, bro. Funny. I agree if it wasn't working for you, get the Hell out!
But, back on Page 32, when D & C's SUV gets in trouble, and they're "forced" to get in with the kids, the feel and even the setting completely changes. Once they're in the Schaefer House, again, it's a whole new ball game, and if you're reading/watching for the first time, in theory at least, you're not prepared at all for what's to follow.
On Page 39, we're introduced to new characters in Bobby and Kill Jacks - the neighbors. On Page 42, Jill takes the dogs out and you know soon after that she's going to stop over at the Schaefer place. Nothing ground breaking, for sure, but more expected confrontation or possible confrontation. Page 46 changes everything completely and from there on, I think you get your Sean S. Cunningham kil(s) every 10 pages or so.
I don't mean to be any kind of dickhead in bringing this up, nor do I want to "defend" the script, but I'm just very sur[rised you'd throw the towel in when you decided to.
Sometimes a movie with characters who have no goals (or very little goals) can be amazing. Look at The Shawshank Redemption. The characters are just so real and entertaining we forget about all that shit. Now, in no way am I comparing The Big Fade to Shawshank, but a couple months back I sent out a draft to several people on here, and the reviews I received were mainly: your characters don't really have strong goals but the script was good/great/highly entertaining. That's all good and everything, but now I have to strengthen my characters' goals -- and I can only imagine how much of a better read the script will be then. With Fade to White, IMO, I just feel that it was lacking in both departments: entertainment and characters fighting for something.
Scripts/movies can be character based, plot based, action based, etc. Characters need life...they need "character". I tried to breathe life into all of these characters and I definitely understand how most or even all could come off as peeps some won't care for. But, they do all have their little idiosyncrasies, which to me, at least, gives them life and relatability.
Bro, in terms of your comments about The Big Fade, as I always say, don't ever listen to what everyone tells you about your script. Most reviewers will comment on screenwriting 101 type stuff, as they beleive all scripts have to be a certain way and contain certain stuff. We know that's not true and anyone who writes this way is only going to churn out the same cookie cutter fare that everyone else is churning out.
Your characters all had character. They all had traits and personalities and that's what made that script work and also made it unique and fresh. I'd actuall;y like to take another look at it when you're done with your revisions.
Thanks again, Steve, for taking the time to comment and engage in discussion. It all helps immensely.
OK, but I'm confused. Adam Marcus wrote and directed this, but what else are you basing his talent on? The only other thing he wrote of any significane is Texas Chainsaw 3D last year. And Dean Lorey, otehr than some TV shows, hasn't done anything that I can see.
If you're seriously basing your comments on their work in JGTH, I'm a little baffled, as that movie was not widely admired in any way, and mostly looked at as a real disappointment.
Yeah, I will say that I am kind of surprised that Marcus and Lorey never really hit it big. But sometimes you do and sometimes you don't, in that line of work, you know what I mean? I think JGTH was their jumping off plat form, BUT if you listen to the commentary track on the Unrated Director's Cut DVD, Marcus and Lorey talk about how JGTH was riddled with a bunch of BS before they even came on board. It was up to them to do the best with what Sean "Get that fuckin' hockey mask outta the movie" Cunningham and the studio wanted. Yes, JGTH is not widely admired in any way and, yes, it is looked at as a real disappointment -- but I think there are many cool things going for it: an older, mature cast with John Lemay and Karrie Keegan as likable protagonists, Steven Culp as a truly menacing "Jason," sexy badass Allison Smith, super badass and equally funny Steven Williams, awesome death scenes, awesome action sequences (the police station massacre and the infamous diner shoot-out).
I'm also intrigued in regards of TC3D... as I found out a few months back that Marcus had a writing credit on it. I'm really interested in checking that out. I've heard a lot of bad reviews for it, but as you can see, I tend to be absorbed by some movies that are looked upon as "real disappointments."
As for your writing, Jeff -- as much as you review and help out around here -- it's funny that you only have 2 features posted on the board. You've been here for years. You appear to know what you're doing -- especially when it comes to grammar and all that hoopla. Why don't you have any other stuff up on the board? What happened to "Devil Went Down to Georgia" or whatever it was called? Don't you remember sending that to me to check out... a few years ago?
Yeah, I will say that I am kind of surprised that Marcus and Lorey never really hit it big. But sometimes you do and sometimes you don't, in that line of work, you know what I mean? I think JGTH was their jumping off plat form, BUT if you listen to the commentary track on the Unrated Director's Cut DVD, Marcus and Lorey talk about how JGTH was riddled with a bunch of BS before they even came on board. It was up to them to do the best with what Sean "Get that fuckin' hockey mask outta the movie" Cunningham and the studio wanted. Yes, JGTH is not widely admired in any way and, yes, it is looked at as a real disappointment -- but I think there are many cool things going for it: an older, mature cast with John Lemay and Karrie Keegan as likable protagonists, Steven Culp as a truly menacing "Jason," sexy badass Allison Smith, super badass and equally funny Steven Williams, awesome death scenes, awesome action sequences (the police station massacre and the infamous diner shoot-out).
I'll have to check it out again, but I'm pretty sure I watched it last year and wasn't remotely impressed.
[quote=SteveMandolla]I'm also intrigued in regards of TC3D... as I found out a few months back that Marcus had a writing credit on it. I'm really interested in checking that out. I've heard a lot of bad reviews for it, but as you can see, I tend to be absorbed by some movies that are looked upon as "real disappointments."
Check out my review of TC3D in the movie review forum.
As for your writing, Jeff -- as much as you review and help out around here -- it's funny that you only have 2 features posted on the board. You've been here for years. You appear to know what you're doing -- especially when it comes to grammar and all that hoopla. Why don't you have any other stuff up on the board? What happened to "Devil Went Down to Georgia" or whatever it was called? Don't you remember sending that to me to check out... a few years ago?
That is a good question. The Devil Went Down to Georgia was lost when my computer took a shit many years ago. I never went back to the idea.
I have several other scripts that I never finished or just lost interest in. There are 3 others that will be completed, but I don't know if they'll end up posted on SS - we'll see. One of them is Fade's sequel, but even though it's basically a complete and finished idea, I decided not to put it to paper unless I can garner real interest in the original, as it would be a waste of time. The other 2 almost complete concepts/ideas should have been finished, but I kind of lost the drive over the years. I do like each of them, though, adn maybe one day, I'll type them out and see what happens.
According to the great Hitchcock, I couldn't have imagined reading this if it would have started without the slaughter. The dialogue wouldn't have been nearly as engaging afterwards.
I went into this with many preloaded notions on what to expect: writing, slugs, story, etc. but left fairly entertained, especially around page 60 or so. As for the writing, I'd say your cohesion of ideas in general are pretty solid. Every so often I'd read back-to-back sentences that felt repetitive in connotation; however, you never strayed from the subject-verb agreement and as a result, pack some seriously strong sentences and visuals. It pays off. I just felt a little more attention to your word selection might have made for a faster read up until page 40-50.
But once the story hit the ground running, it never slowed down. At least up until the ending.
Some of my thoughts as I read:
-- How does Lloyd scream after he gets a fork rammed in his throat? Tobias didn't have the decency to read little Joey a bedtime story before he tucked him in?
-- Good slugs. I thought Horny Toad was a great name.
-- You had some pretty well timed dialogue, humorous as well. "I swear I'm gonna tell Janey you're gay and make her believe it." "Everything's perfect, and if you think I look funny, you should see Jake right now." Haha!
-- I enjoyed how Danny and Carlie met with the group for the first time. Your characters all seem to be fleshed out with a nice subtext going on. I felt their backstories even though I didn't read it. Good job. Keeping in the spirit of the events in the first sequence, I'd say you effectively put every character on a even playing field.
-- Great hindsight, sexual tension between Carlie and the boys. Johnny reminded me of Vince Vaughn in Clay Pigeons.
-- Page 25, The whole scene is amazing. The real meeting of these two parties unfolds awesomely. It's a great character technique you've used here and I have taken note of it.
-- Does the snowflakes have meaning? Did I miss it?
-- Around page 41, the booze talk became repetitive for me and I wanted to hear something new. At least your characters never run out of things to talk about even if it is the same.
-- Pretty impressive visuals from Danny's scenes in the wood shed.
-- I thought you could go another page without killing Lisa. Make Lisa question the situation further with a half-hearted disclosure of what Danny really is.
-- You write better during action sequences IMO.
-- Every time I see FADE TO WHITE out of the corner of my eye, I know someone's ready to get iced. But it does refresh the mind going into a new "chapter" of death.
-- The number of characters seem overwhelming at first, but their identities become more defined through the violence.
-- Page 69, Did Nicole just grow a penis?
-- Page 81, I thought it would've been appropriate, for Danny and Carlie to toy with Johnny through dialogue.
-- Awesome stand off playing on the deception of who's really evil.
-- Page 93, Ociffer
The ending? It's surreal. I'd be lying if I said I loved it. I was waiting for Tobias to get back into the mix, but I didn't expect him to become expended so easily. That being said, I thought that a nice little ending for Danny and Carlie would be to go through Janelle's purse or something and find a positive pregnancy test. Realizing the fucked up, Xavier's sends a little treat for them. Lol, ok I had to say it.
Thanks for sending me your work, Jeff. I thought you used many good storytelling techniques here that didn't feel like techniques at all. Good work man.
Thanks for reading, Johnnie. I totally apprecaite your thoughts and feedback. Glad you were entertained for the most part.
The snowflake transitions don't really have actual meaning, but there is a color theme going on that plays against standards. The reality is that i thought it was a cool visual transition.
The "Ociffer" thing is actually correct as written. It's Danny fucking with Jacobs, with a "slur" - kind of a reverse when a cop pulls a drunk driver over and the first thing out of the drunk's mouth is "Ociffer, what seems to be the problem?" - adn his ass is immediately grass.
This script is really nothing more than my answer to the poorly thought plotted slashers where everyone is an idiot and does stupid things for stupid reasons. Maybe more like the anti-slasher. I just wanted an exciting, bloody, played for keeps kill or be killed old school new school horror ride. Nothing more, nothing less.
Let me know if I can return the favor, bro. Take care.
Read the script that was posted and really enjoyed it. I have skimmed through some of the comments here and see that many people commented on the long bar scene; I actually thought it was great. Great character development. This is where the horror--particularly the slasher genre--becomes a double-edged sword. We hear over and over again how slasher films are just a bunch of one dimensional characters that nobody cares about getting hacked up. However, when a TRUE attempt is made at creating real characters and time spent getting to know them, it becomes "boring," or "too talky" or "too long with nothing happening." So just know that I did think the whole scene was effective and written very well. These seemed like REAL people and nothing came off as forced or phony. However, trust that I understand why some do not like it.
Your writing, for the most part, is crisp and tight and I could easily visualize the action taking place. I wish Martin's death would not have been so abrupt and accidental. He deserved to at least have the chance to put up a fight.
Other than that, with 32 pages of comments, I am sure you have heard enough. Just wanted to let you know I enjoyed it very much and your talent and potential shine through.
Hey Troy, thanks for reading and welcome to the boards.
The draft you read is VERY, VERY old. I need to get the latest/last draft up here and I need to stop saying that and just do it.
Glad you liked it and I appreciate the compliments.
This was my very first script and I keep it close to my heart, as it meant alot to me to complete it and still really enjoy it.
The long Horny Toad scene(s) have been scaled way back and there have been numerous technical changes, as well as some scene additions - actually, I don't have a clue what draft is even here, but I know it's very outdated. If you're remotely interested in seeing the difference, let me know.
I look forward to reading your work and am always available to help.
Glad to see some new blood here at SS, the best place on the web to learn about screenwriting.
Thanks and no problem! I really did enjoy the script.
I do have a script posted....it's called HOMECOMING and was posted WAY back in 2004! It was my first attempt at a full length feature and it sort of my tribute to the slasher films of the 80's that I grew up loving. You're welcome to check it out--I know it has issues, so feedback is always welcome.
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