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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  Fade to White Moderators: bert
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: January 20th, 2009, 3:56pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Hello Jeff,

In my opinion, this script is close to perfect for its intentions. I found it engaging and that's a tough thing to do with this kind of genre as far as "the read" goes.

Certain things I could see coming-- that perfect kind of foreshadowing, but not too much and other things, such as Carlie and Danny being "the bad guys", I could not.

There are a few minor typos I've caught, a teensy bit of tightening and just some little notes on word choice:

The word "beautiful" is repeated twice and very close in the beginning; so maybe switch it up a bit.

I don't think you need "BOSE" earphones. Earphones is good enough.

page 10 typo it's to its and also page 11

Carlie's Dialogue

Tighten to just:

Honey! There! Big sale!

Or pare it down a bit some other way.

This:

Danny approaches the main drag from a small side street, the
Jeep parked behind him. Up ahead is a bar called The Horny
Toad. Music from a live band wafts out through the front
door, which seems to be opening and closing quite frequently.

Tighten to something like:

Danny approaches a bar called The Horny Toad. Music wafts out
the door that swings constantly with the business of the night.

Page 19 typo on "a lot" Two words not one. Do a find/replace- I had found others later.

Page 38 typo "parents'" as possessive.

Page 82 typo It won't be the last time I can tell you, [that's] for sure. with an "s".

Page 95 LOL on the old "shoe's untied" trick. It does work in the following perfectly.

DANNY
Officer, quick...turn around...behind
you! There's another one out there.
He's got a gun!
Officer Jacobs spins around instinctively, gun raised. He
sees Martin walking toward him.

On page 99, I thought that Danny wanted to shoot Megan, not Janelle.

Page 107 typo "Were/we're all ears.

I think the story should end on 105 and include Danny on the ski hill.

The add on with Xavier at the end doesn't feel right to me. Perhaps if Xavier were shown in the beginning, it might work, but then you'd have to mess with your script.

I don't know. I think that the getting into explanations at the end isn't what this script is about. Maybe a different one, but not this one.

It's nailing that teen horror flick genre perfectly I think. I suggest just keeping these two twisted individuals in the light of being twisted and don't try and explain any further on it. They are what they are and that's it.

If you do decide to continue working on this script, you might chose to do away with Tobias as a character and that early kill in the pool. You might be able to recover page space, intro Xavier and use it in some other creative way. It's something to think about anyways.

From the Carlie and Danny on the plane and onwards to the end where they're on the ski hill is where I see this script currently.

If anything is a little iffy, it's the very beginning and very end. Not a problem with the writing, but perhaps the subject and added characters.

I think you can still tell the same story but give a nip and tuck these two important ends.

I don't see any other problems with this script at this time.

Whatever way you choose to go with it, I would consider it a complete success.

Sandra








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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: January 20th, 2009, 4:19pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from sniper
Review - PART 1

Hey Jeff,

I just finished Fade To White ...I'm all for character development, it is very important for a script but at some point you have to trust your reader that they get it and move on with the story. Having said that, I do think Danny and Carlie worked pretty well as characters.

The youngsters (Lisa, Jake, Johnny, Martin, Nicole, Janelle and Meghan) was...I don't know how to put this without sounding like a complete asshole...a pain from the start. To me, nothing is more boring than drunk people (unless I'm drunk too, then everyone's funny) - you know what I mean. Especially if they keep saying Fuck, Shit, Ass, Bitch etc. all the time and at the same time keep reminding everybody how wasted they are (which they did quite a lot in the bar scene and later as well). Another thing, and this needs work, they came across very alike. If I had blocked out their names when I read this - it would read like it was the same person saying the whole thing. There's really nothing in their dialogue or behavior that sets them apart except for the fact that one is more drunk than the other. Okay, maybe Martin and Meghan stand out a little bit but it's only because we see and hear so little of them compared to the others. Sticking with the dialogue, to me, real-life talk in movies shouldn't sound like what real-life talk sounds like in real life but rather how real-life talk sounds like in movies. There's a big difference. There's a lot of real-life talk going on in the bar scene that doesn't really go anywhere. That reminded me of 'Death Proof' which I thought was a disaster (except for the scenes with Kurt - cos' Kurt's, like, God). All you had there was two groups of bitches flapping their boring cunts off and it made my dick fall asleep. Move it along, Kurt needs to kill somebody here. That's the same how I felt with the bar scene - move it along. Yes, you introduced the new characters but like I said earlier, know when nuff's enough. Also, the story Johnny tells about Jake being wasted did not have a strong enough punch line imo. to pull off that rather long setup. And the "real" story he tells to Martin afterwards doesn't really come into play at any point (unless Jake had had an encounter with Xavier before that as well, but I seriously doubt that - there's no evidence really to support that). The same can be said for the Johnny-Janelle-Martin love triangle, you lead us down a path that ultimately turns out to be a dead end.

To be continued...


I too am all for character and if a script uses bad language for no good reason and it feels fake, then I don't like it.

For me, I didn't feel like it sounded fake in this script. These were the people and this is what they were like. IMHO. What I notice, and I notice bad language, (all the time on SS    ) is that when you get young people (like this) together in a bar scene (like this), inevitably, you also get mindless spouting off (like this).

I think that the scene is accomplishing what it sets out to do: showing the young and foolish kids, trying to have a good time. It's setting the stage for the turn when everything goes bad.

The way I'm trying to critique this one is based upon its intentions. That's why I criticized the ending. Because I felt it fell outside of itself. I didn't feel it set itself up to be some kind of deep mind bending show questioning right and wrong and the "feeling of power" etc...

In my mind, it was intended as a teen horror flick. It doesn't need a whole lot of analyzing and rewriting it to the death just to turn it into something else.

I think Jeff, you should be satisfied with this one after making whatever decisions on further changes to it and move on. Don't kill yourself over it. It's not worth it.

Sandra




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sniper
Posted: January 20th, 2009, 4:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sandra Elstree.
For me, I didn't feel like it sounded fake in this script.

I didn't think the harsh language sounded fake neither, Sandra, but it is very stereotypical and that bored me somewhat. Can't young people come across as just a little intelligent for once? Does it always have to be about booze and boobs?

I agree that the youngsters are your typical Teen Horror Flick characters but I don't think that Jeff set out to write this as a Teen Horror Flick - I think he wanted to go deeper than that IMO (especially looking at the ending). This is just a gut feeling and I may very well be wrong


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: January 20th, 2009, 4:41pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from MBCgirl
Hi All - I thought initially from what I read, that Dreamscale did want some help with the slugline...I like the one line written on a t-shirt in this movie...Durango, Heaven on Earth...the words get soaked in Megan's blood which offers an opposite picture.

Here's the slug line from Jeff: Fade to White by Jeff Bush (dreamscale) - Horror -

Danny and Carlie are in for a lot more than just skiing, the weekend after Christmas, in Durango, Colorado.  The white of the falling snow won’t be the only color they’ll see...

Could a slugline be developed with the "Heaven on Earth" line in it...someone mentioned before they knew there had to be a line that would stand out in this screenplay.

Just a thought

MBCgirl





Morgan, I think you've got an excellent idea using the T-shirt in the logline. Why not this: Durango - Heave (blood splash) on earth.

There's the logline and the Poster all in one with big breasted horror sticking out at ya. Yep, I think that's a package.

Sandra



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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: January 20th, 2009, 4:46pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from sniper

I didn't think the harsh language sounded fake neither, Sandra, but it is very stereotypical and that bored me somewhat. Can't young people come across as just a little intelligent for once? Does it always have to be about booze and boobs?

I agree that the youngsters are your typical Teen Horror Flick characters but I don't think that Jeff set out to write this as a Teen Horror Flick - I think he wanted to go deeper than that IMO (especially looking at the ending). This is just a gut feeling and I may very well be wrong


If that's the case, then yes, he should consider reworking the beginning, the end and digging a bit deeper with the dialogue.

Sandra




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thegardenstate89
Posted: January 20th, 2009, 7:22pm Report to Moderator
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I read the rewrite.

S P O I L E R S

I see you have Xavier mentioned earlier in the story. Nice touch.
Someone gets killed outside the Horny Toad this time, instead of of Danny getting scared by the cat. You could still keep the cat scene with Danny though. That might actually might add a little more suspense.
On page 18 when the Snowy Chickens ask the crowd to start dancing. This is written in the action. I'm not the most  screenplay literate reader, but are you able to do that or does this has to be done through dialog?

So have you hit anyone else in the head with a lead pipe lately? LMAO! I didnt pick up on the clue joke first time round.

The script is tighter, definitely in the bar scene.

I see what you mean about Xavier as well. When he talks about being the Angel of Death, giver of life etc. Except how does that MAKE him the devil. He could just fancy himself that ya'know?

I never mentioned in my first how much I enjoyed the way you got rid of Martin (well I was pissed but in a good way) He and Janelle were the characters I related to the most. I think you gave us the most conflict for those two characters. While other couples would bicker these two actually had something going. And just when Martin a guy who never really is given the opportunity to shine gets his opportunity it is taken away by a stray bullet.

As an aspiring director I love horror films in the snow. the fad to white would look great in a snow storm. However I think you should change the title. It sounds like an editing command on imovie or something.

  As an avid snowboarder I love the location though I have not had the privilege of going out West yet (where all the good powder is). But my friends have, and they partied out at houses a rich step dad would have and such. That is why I picture some people I know as these character although slightly younger.

I enjoyed reading your tighter script second time around and urge you to keep going further. Especially with conflict between these characters. Tell a story in this bar. After all this is the last night these people get to party. Might as well send em off with a memorable one.

Good work and good luck.

BTW if you make a sequel def have a family be the killers. I don't think I've seen it and for the direction your going itd totally be bada** imagine two young siblings arguing over how they should kill some beauty queen. now that's conflict. just a thought.

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thegardenstate89  -  January 22nd, 2009, 1:29pm
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Aaron
Posted: January 20th, 2009, 8:15pm Report to Moderator
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Hey, great script. Only I feel The Horny Toad scene lasted a little too long, it was good, but a little long. Great script though, this is how slasher flicks are made!


Isle 10- A series I'm currently writing with my friend Adam and it will go into production soon. Think The Office meets 10 Items or Less.

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MBCgirl
Posted: January 21st, 2009, 1:10am Report to Moderator
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I haven’t reviewed this post for some time so I thought I would jump in here since there are so many new, wonderful posts.

I have seen a lot of horror movies due to my boyfriend who loves this genre of film.  It’s not my personal cup of tea, but I have to say that I do like this script for a number of reasons.  Probably the biggest reason is that it isn’t typical…it is more “real” …that to me makes it scary.

This isn’t a teen slasher either, as all the characters are in their 20’s and I think that Dreamscale sees it as a hard “R” rated production.

There are a couple of things that keep being mentioned, and I think that they are the things that need to be worked out the most.

*Xavier – he has a demonic persona and I think the fact that so many don’t get that, it makes this an area that needs to be worked out so that it is more clear.  He is not hiring people to kill or be hit men, but rather, he takes delight in controlling people and working from a “power” play in people’s lives.  He rewards them, and in a way, gets them to believe that they have the power to take life in exchange for something they want.  In Carlie and Danny’s life, it is to get the money they need to open his own practice.  I think on screen this will be more evident…but when someone is reading the script, it continues to be a confusing point.

*The other common comment is the build-up of the characters, the conversation, that for many seems to be too long in the bar.   I think the story between the guys doesn’t truly add an element of doubt or leave the one guy looking to be the killer…I don’t think it creates that doubt that Dreamscale is going for…actually I think most people will not think that way…and just want the story to get going as has been stated.  I think it could still be in there, but it could be cut down without losing anything so the story can advance.

I do like the characters, absolutely LOVE the lesbian scene in the closet…there is a lot of tension there…and at that point, we still don’t know if Carlie is involved.

*The cuts that run during the credits also seem to be an issue.  I personally like them because they provide the “Ah-Ha” moment and fill in the blanks. Still, it is an issue for many, but that being said…I think we have to allow the writer|creator to put things where they feel it will best suit what they are trying to create.  Things that always follow the same pattern are often predictable and I think Dreamscale is going for this to be different in many ways.

*Getting drunk, continual trash talk and driving also seem to be mentioned a lot, but really…being a skier myself and having skied in the Durango area…I know that area pretty well.  I have been involved on a couple of the pub crawls that happen there and believe me…people party hard!  Martinis, Jaegers, body shots and people slipping and sliding (while walking) on the sidewalks!  The roads are pretty desolate at night in that area and driving in general is slow going (sluggish) and I think Jeff does a good job of setting things up through this portion of the script.  There are a lot of “timing” elements that make this extremely interesting for me.

I think this is getting to the point that what Dreamscale needs to do is work on the parts that don’t seem to work for people, because in some ways…maybe they are the same things that an agent might have questions with…decrease the opportunity of opposition and increase the chances of having this picked up and produced…while ultimately being true to his vision and himself.


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I love words and the fact that when the page is blank...there's nothing there until words are formulated in my brain. Those thoughts...rushing through my viens and out my finger tips, find "life" on the page.  

When people and places come to life...that to me is exciting.


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Dreamscale
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 6:46pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Rob, just wanted to get back to you on this.  Yeah, it seems like we definitely have different tastes in terms of what we like and don’t like in terms of styles in movies.  That’s cool, and that’s the way it always is.  No problem there at all…but…Cat Woman?  CAT WOMAN?  C’mon now.  That was seriously one of THE worst movies of all time, and I seriously mean, of all time!  I’d never watch a second of that crap again.

Would you really rather watch Halle Berry running around in a stupid looking cat suit than see my Fade?  There’s gonna be lots of hotties, some good T & A, some great WTF moments and shocks, and lots of great, brutal kills.  C’mon now buddy…

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thegardenstate89  -  January 22nd, 2009, 7:29pm
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Dreamscale
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Sandra, thank you so much for all this great advice and feedback.  I totally appreciate it and it means a lot to me that you jumped on this so quickly.  I owe ya, buddy!

I’m glad you liked this, and your compliments are appreciated.

Thanks for finding those mistakes, as they’ve eluded me for some time.  I hate mistakes, and I had been told there were still a few in here.  Maybe…hopefully, that’s all of them.

Very funny that you think it should begin in the plane and end on the ski run, cause that’s what the first draft looked like.  My initial readers all said the same thing, and that was that they didn’t get it. They didn’t see the motivation for D & C to do what they did.  They also all said that it was way too slow and long a buildup, with nothing of a horror-like nature happening until after page 50 (which I totally agreed with).  So, I added in the beginning with Tobias and the end with X.  All my initial readers liked this version much, much better, and the initial problems were done away with, because now we start with a bang, and you know exactly what kind of movie you’re in for, and there was real meaning and reasoning for D & C doing what they do (although most still don’t seem to get it).

You say that you don’t think this script is about the explanations at the end, and is a typical teen horror, or slasher script.  It’s not at all in my mind.  First of all, there aren’t any teen characters in here.  Although you might think that the “kids” come off this way, but I disagree.  I cut out basically all the back story as to who everyone is, but I can tell you that they’re all business professionals, and most are of good upbringing and intelligent people.  We’re seeing them in a complete party mood and setting, but that’s what happens on a ski trip, especially considering it’s the weekend between Christmas and New Years and it’s the snow dump of the century.

In terms of storyline, plot, and structure, I don’t think this follows typical teen horror at all either.  It’s very, very different, and is purposely written this way.  It is meant to come off as a brutal horror movie with lots of realistic, brutal kills, but it’s also supposed to shock and surprise you with plot twists along the way.  There’s no masked mysterious killer popping up at the perfect time, killing off stupid people, doing stupid things.  There’s no running through woods, screaming, and then tripping.  If you think about it, the killers are the ones making the mistakes, not the antags.  And speaking of antags and protags, this is another area that this story totally deviates form the norm, because you get to know the actual antags, and hopefully get to like them before you find out that they’re actually the antags.

As Sniper said, this is definitely meant to be much more than you may have assumed.  But then again, I do want this to be taken for what it is, and that’s a fun, wild, and brutal ride, highlighted by some complete shocks and surprises and a whole bunch of bloodshed.  

The ending with X’s reveal is there to sum things up in an ambiguous way, so each individual can read in what they want.  It’s also a lead in for the sequel, which will completely reveal what’s actually going on here and why.  X is a main character in the sequel.

Thank you for calling it a complete success, but I’m wondering now if you still feel that way hearing what I just said.  Should be interesting.

I’m glad you liked the dialogue and didn’t find it gratuitous.  It’s not supposed to be.  It is supposed to be real for sure, and I find it very realistic.  I think a lot has to do with the delivery…even the back and forth between D & C.  Sure, they’re lovey dovey, but if done in a certain way, it comes off as much more real than most seem to see.  They’re cute with each other but they both know to take it with a few grains of salt!

Your last comment recommended that I be satisfied with it, and move on, and that it’s not worth killing myself over.  Well, I’m not going to kill myself over it, but I’m not going to move on until I’ve exhausted all resources and have to move on, as I really feel this is going to be seen on the silver screen (yeah, I know…go ahead…laugh if you must).  Maybe I’m crazy, but I honestly feel this is going to not only make it, but make it big.  With the right people, the right budget, and done the right way, I see big things and I’m not about to lose faith or give up, cause it’s just not in my character.

Thanks again, Sandra.  Your insight means a lot to me, and your feedback is so appreciated.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: January 22nd, 2009, 11:03pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Dreamscale


You say that you don’t think this script is about the explanations at the end, and is a typical teen horror, or slasher script.  It’s not at all in my mind.


You are correct. Forgive me but I'm a living irony. I've mentioned this on one of the Skype nights. I've never been a big movie or television watcher. I had always preferred to be active and immersed in activities that aren't as passive. It's only when I was knocked back by this illness that it actually forced me to sit down and write. My description of teen horror is too generic a term, but that's what I used. Now I know better.

I recognized that these weren't teenagers and that was clear. My age is showing though-- I think of 20 somethings as kids. Come to think of it, I think of 30 somethings as kids. Oh God!!!! Now that's horror!!!!  Teenagers would however, enjoy watching this.


Quoted from Dreamscale
As Sniper said, this is definitely meant to be much more than you may have assumed.  But then again, I do want this to be taken for what it is, and that’s a fun, wild, and brutal ride, highlighted by some complete shocks and surprises and a whole bunch of bloodshed.


I had this feeling too, but it didn't surface for me until the end. Then I felt that it was being twisted into the shape that you intended. Perhaps "the identity" of the film needs to be more fully developed in the beginning. What I mean by that (and oh God I should just shut up 'cause I feel a tangent coming on) is that somehow there's got to be a way to deliver the sensibility that you want to establish in the beginning. Perhaps even before the scene at the Paterson home.

Consider:

One of the rules: Not to kill a child.

If this is established at the very beginning, and then we see Joey killed, then all kinds of questions will arise in our mind. Why does Tobias break the rule? Even before he breaks it, we're wondering: Will he?


Quoted from Dreamscale
Thank you for calling it a complete success, but I’m wondering now if you still feel that way hearing what I just said.  Should be interesting.

Your last comment recommended that I be satisfied with it, and move on, and that it’s not worth killing myself over.  Well, I’m not going to kill myself over it, but I’m not going to move on until I’ve exhausted all resources and have to move on, as I really feel this is going to be seen on the silver screen (yeah, I know…go ahead…laugh if you must).  Maybe I’m crazy, but I honestly feel this is going to not only make it, but make it big.  With the right people, the right budget, and done the right way, I see big things and I’m not about to lose faith or give up, cause it’s just not in my character.

Thanks again, Sandra.  Your insight means a lot to me, and your feedback is so appreciated.


I'm really glad to hear that you're not going to let it rest. A person has to know it and feel it within and there has to be a "reason" in it. A deeper reason even than just making the dough (although that's a great reason) and having the prestige. I don't know what that reason is using words. No word describes it. It's the unquantifiable adventure and journey of the soul's passion. That's the nearest way I can describe this.

The fact that you can see this as being up on the big screen is nothing to laugh at. I can too. It has the right ingredients. Know too that I'm a fussy reader and I found this an enjoyable read; so that says a lot. It wasn't "painful" to me at all.

Regarding people saying the bar scene was too long: Well, there's an easy way to get around that. Intersperse it with other visuals and it won't seem as long if people see it as a problem.

The important thing is to know exactly where you stand on it and this will help you in determining the next step.

PS, I saw the uniqueness of the characters coming through in the dialogue. Especially Nicole.

How about we hear her tell a story too. Maybe give a reason for her attitude. If you used a flashback with this, it would take us "virtually" out of the bar.

Oh the possibilities!!!

Sandra




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sniper
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 5:12am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
No problem there at all…but…Cat Woman?  CAT WOMAN?  C’mon now.  That was seriously one of THE worst movies of all time, and I seriously mean, of all time!  I’d never watch a second of that crap again.

Would you really rather watch Halle Berry running around in a stupid looking cat suit than see my Fade?  There’s gonna be lots of hotties, some good T & A, some great WTF moments and shocks, and lots of great, brutal kills.  C’mon now buddy…

Ha ha - yeah, I might have over dramatized my disdain for Death Proof cos' nobody - nobody - could live through a week of Catwoman.


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Dreamscale
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 3:16pm Report to Moderator
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Rob, no one could live through a day of Cat Woman!!!!
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 3:36pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tony, thanks so much for reading and giving your feedback.  Special thanks for reading both drafts within a few days!  Your comments really help.

I love your description of the beginning…”a fucking knuckle punch”!  Well worded!  Yeah, I was going for the affect of a quick blast out of the gate and then a rather long, slow build, and then a balls out final hour.  I personally don’t like when movies go back and forth between action and nothing on a constant basis.

Glad you were surprised that Tobias wasn’t in the house, so to speak.

Your comment about page 18 is a good one.  No one else has brought that up.  I definitely see what you mean, but I don’t see a problem with the way I did it.  There is another example of this in here somewhere else also.  Good point though!

Glad you noticed my shout out to the classic game of Clue!  I think that’s a funny line also.

Thanks for noticing that the bar scene is now tighter…I’m doing 1 final rewrite and it will be tighter yet.

As for Xavier, I was just telling you that he is Satan.  There is nothing stated (as of yet) that says he actually is.  It’s ambiguous and open to each person to decide what they think.  The visuals will be the best clues though.  His features, his fingers, his eyes, his mouth, etc.

Glad you liked (or at least appreciated) Martin’s demise.  I think it’s cool and out of nowhere also.  A few have said they liked it and a few have said they hate it.  Yeah, I like Janelle and Martin too.  Janey gave it the old college try but came up just short.

I like movies set in the snow also.  Great possibilities for beautiful shots.  Original title was “Whiteout” but that was taken.  It’s being released later this year with Kate Beckinsale, so I had to come up with a new title and I actually like this one better than the original now.

You need to get your ass out west, cause the only real skiing and boarding is out west!  You’ll simply love it!

Yes, the ending with X is actually a lead in to the sequel, which is already just about done in my head.  Blacky is the killer going forward though…no family of killers, but maybe he’ll kill a family…or two!
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 23rd, 2009, 3:47pm Report to Moderator
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Hello MBC!  Thanks for another post.

Glad you see that this is not typical in any ways.  That’s the biggest compliment I can ask for, and is definitely what I was going for.  Yes, this will definitely be a very hard R rated feature, based on tone, graphic violence, nudity, and language.

X still needs to be fleshed out a bit I can see, and I’m working on that for my final rewrite.  I agree that the visuals will make this all much more clear.

The bar scene is not to create doubt so much but to introduce the characters first of all, and show that Jake is a killer, meaning he should be able to take care of himself when it comes down to it. His demise is a big shock and I think that some of that shock is due to his characterization and this story in the bar.  I know it still reads long, but in a filmed version, it will take place much quicker and it’s not like it’s a scene with a couple people sitting around with nothing else going on around them…there’s a lot happening around them and it will play our much more entertaining that most seem to think.

We’ll see how it all plays out.  Thanks again for your interest!
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