Fade to White by Jeff Bush (dreamescale) - Horror - Good friends, great skiing, and an epic snowstorm in the quiet ski town of Durango, Colorado.  Oh yeah...and a shitload of killing. The blood that's shed will never fade to white.  112 pages - pdf, format

Hey Dreamscale,

People already talked about the logline so I won't go into it. One item that caught my eye was the 124 pages. That's alot. That's a 2 hour film. I think you should probably consider cutting some stuff back to at least 90 or 100 page mark. I'm still going to read the script but wanted to give you something to think about.

Read 23pgs. of it:

There's definitely alot stuff you can cut out like Charlie and Danny driving dialgoue and the dialogue when Charlie and Danny have when Danny collides. Cut it to when their in town. Also you have many characters. You should probably reduce it to the important characters such as Charlie and Danny and the guys at the Horney Toad. The fact you gave a name to the pilot and co-pilot says they are main characters. If their not, call them pilot and co-pilot. But what i saw as an important scene was the co-pilot first and then the pilot. The whole I want a baby theme.

In addition, you need to keep it upbeat. I was getting kind of tired (sorry to say) reading through. The opening had me a bit but then its all meeting characters and getting to know them. It's good but I think it can be shorten to also include some conflict.

you cut the horney toad scene to intercut Chalrie and Danny at the store. I advise probably to continue the Horney Toad scene through and cut or move the store scene. Preferably cut the store scene and find another way of expressing Danny's breast look in the Horny Toad scene.

I noticed you used a song (home alabama) anning to do the same thing but having second thoughts since it's copyright rights. So, I suggest removing that and keeping it general.

I'm not good in dialgoue but I think some can be reduced as well. Read it out loud. Like the beginning scene, (pardon the formating,lol.)

Tobias: cuse me?
Loyd turns.
Tobias: Sorry to bother you. I'm staying at your neighbor's house and I was looking to cook  but have no pro pro
Loyd : propane.
Tobias : Yes.
Loyd: Sure. come in.

(the rest of the scene) Can you see how shorten it is and fast to read. I'm still going to read this still. It has the feel of ("something" games) I'll look up the title later.

Hope this helps,  

Gabe

Hey Gabe thanks for jumping on this so fast.

It's Carlie, not Charlie, BTW.

Hope you enjoy.

Sorry about that. I thought it said Charlie, I guess I imagined the H. So sorry. lol.

And the movie I was thinking about was funny games.

Gabe

Hey man

Read about 40 pages here and really enjoying it. Left a comment on the script club thread but thought I'd go on the script thread too.

Top dialogue fella, but just think that scene in the bar goes on too long. Granted, I'm guessing pretty much all of what's been said is going to have some link to the story but I'm sure you can get it a little leaner. For a horror, apart from the first scene, there's been no horror in a third of the script.

Really enjoying it though.

Ste

Thanks Ste.  Yeah, you're defintely right.  The main complaints I've gotten in the past have revolved around the extent of the bar scene.  I purposely made it long and "slow" though, as I kind of enjoy movies that have a long buildup (assuming the payoff in the end is worth the ride).  This is the getting to know you scene and I really wanted the characters to all have screen time, and hopefuly come off as real and likeable people.

Appreciate the feedback!

Yeah man, I really liked it. Kind of reminded me of the bar scene in Death Proof. I'll finish the script before saying anything more, just wanted to say what I thought of the build up.

SPOILERS

EDIT:  Adding this in because I noticed some questions and observations were answered or made more clear later.  I'm a type as I read type guy, and most of my comments are entered right as I'm in the story, so some questions may be answered or resolved by the time I get to the end, but I think it's good to pop that stuff in there while it's still fresh in the mind, and to give you an idea of what the reader is thinking as they move along.

This script opens up with a bang with the numerous deaths in just the first handful of pages, but I had a problem with one.  Marshall's.  I'm not really sure if he would have even had the opportunity to do what he did, which is prolong Cyndi's death.  He should have been dead not long after that radio hit the water.  

Now, on to Cyndi.  Am I to assume that she's standing there, waiting to be shot and making a run for it, naked as a jaybird the whole time?  Not a big deal, really, but I noticed a quick passage about her gathering herself and wondered if that meant clothes.  Then there's Joey, who does little more than to establish Tobias as a "nobody lives" type guy.  Something like that probably isn't all that necessary, and when you're looking for things to cut, which you inevitably will, I'd start there.

You then move into the plane, and take far too long in telling us that Dan and Carlie are going on vacation and Carlie wants to have a baby.  You don't need the nosey fligth attendant or the Captain popping in with his little spiel.  Plane - Turbulence - Vacation - Baby.  That's the heart of the matter there.

From the first time you introduce them, all the way up to the next set of intros in the lounge, I really disliked the interaction between Dan and Carlie.  It's sickeningly sweet, and rI was waiting for one to call the other "schmoopie".  We know they're married and that their relationship seems to be on pretty stable ground.  No need to beat the reader over the head with it.  I'll also point out that they seem really full of themselves.  "Is it my imagination, or are we like the hottest couple in this airport right now?"  That's a horribly weird and random line.

I was going to comment again at the end of the first act, but I really can't find it.  There's just an awful lot of banter going on here between these people.  Just way too much.  This is talky like a comedy is talky, and since this is a thriller/horror script, a lot of this has to go.  Most of it isn't doing much to drive the story or characters forward.

Bottom of page 57 - Interesting.  I waiting to see where this goes.

I see you have your soundtrack and product placement already built in.

From then I on I pretty much just ran through the rest of the story, and I wonder about the structure.  I see how some/all of the things you did in the beginning are brought back in the end to give the story a sense of closure, but this story is seriously lacking in suspense.  Just a random opinion here, but why not use Tobias to keep people on their toes?  After all they're working together, or at least affiliated in some way, and it could make the reveal a little more surprising.

A lot of time was spent in getting to know these characters, and it still didn't seem like it was enough.  Marty and Janelle were probably the most interesting to me, Marty's death came off as being totally uneventful.

My recommendation is to take the first 60 pages and seriously re-work them, which is to say, cut the shit out of them.  It takes too long to get to that reveal, and the reader is subjected to talking and talking and talking.  After that, I would really look into the possibility of having the "working together" bit beefed up.  Put Tobias in there a little more, possibly as the helper/distractor, like I said, and then when he's killed in the end, it will be a little more dramatic.  As it is, it's like "Isn't that the guy in the beginning that killed those 5 people?  Oh, okay".

Bobby and Jill are there only to give reason for the cops to show up.  Maybe something more could be done with them as well.

On the whole, there could have been a LOT more that was done with this story.  It seems to have kind of a Hostel vibe right now, except it doesn't focus solely on power hungry alpha male types.  It's a family thing, and that could provide a lot of interesting twists and turns.

Anyway, I'm rambling here.  I'm going to try and spark up some conversation on the script club thread.

In closing, tighten this up, and exploit your key element:  Murder Vacation Package.

Hey Shelton, thanks for the quick read and comments.  I appreciate them.  I'm going to try and respond to each reviewer as quickly as I can, so I can add my own comments and maybe clear a few things up as we go.

SPOILERS

Marshall's "revival" needs the viewer to suspend belief just a tad, I'll agree.  When the cord pulls out of the wall, the electrical flow is cut off, so maybe his body is just reacting to that.  It's obviously meant as a surprise, and a chance for Cyndi to escape.

Cyndi is buck naked (or should I say, butt naked?) when she's thrust out of the pool.  She's not standing there though, she's for the most part down on the decking, trying to get her body to move.  She's somewhat "frozen" from the electrical shock, so the "gathering herself", is her merely trying to get going again.

As for little Joey, I wanted to show early on that nothing and no one was sacred, and I wasn't going to be pulling any punches, or following standard Hollywood do's and dont's..

Danny and Carlie are definitely a lovey-dovey couple and quite goofy as well.  I think people will either love them or hate them for their sugary sweetness, but I defintely wanted to portray them like that.  They are a bit conceited but it's really more due to self confidence, and being in the position they're in, and they are a hot couple!

The bar scene is indeed long and rather slow.  It's purposely done this way so you get to know the characters, and also wonder where the story's going and when it's going to get moving.  Kind of "Wolf Creek-like actually.  I hope the banter, although mostly trivial, I agree, is still entertaining and funny at times.

Obviously, I'm not a believer in the old 3 Act structure of a script.

Tobias is already dead when the action hits Durango.  The scene at the end is a flashback, as are all the "missing scenes", so Tobias can't do anything, unless it's from the grave.  Hopefully, you assumed that Tobias was going to enter into the mix at some time in Durango and start up the killing again.

I'm surprised you didn't like Martin's death.  It's one of my faves, as I don't think you can see it coming at all, and it should hit pretty hard in a shocking way.

Bobby and Jill are actually there for several reasons.  Hopefully, they added some comic relief.  Also, Bobby's strange behavior was meant as another red herring actually, in that maybe he's involved or going to be involved.  And Jill is another opportunity for help, or if she actually made it to the Schaefer house, another potential victem.

Finally, there's an awful lot more to the actual story that no one has commented on yet, so I'll wait on that.

Thanks so much for your feedback, Shelton.  I appreciate it very much.  

Quoted from Dreamscale Tobias is already dead when the action hits Durango.  The scene at the end is a flashback, as are all the "missing scenes", so Tobias can't do anything, unless it's from the grave.  Hopefully, you assumed that Tobias was going to enter into the mix at some time in Durango and start up the killing again.

No, I got it, even though they weren't flagged as flashbacks, but going a little deeper into things that had already happened made it obvious.

My Tobias suggestion ties in with the rework suggestion.  One can assume that Tobias is going to return based on the beginning and the blurb on the radio, but after so many pages of not seeing him, you start to question that and look other places.

I never got the feeling that Bobby and Jill were in on it, but I thought of Jill as a potential victim, at least until she knocked into the tree and disappeared for the rest of the script.

I'm not really sure what aspect you're talking about when you say "more to the story" but if you can be more specific I can probably comment on it.

I'm going to wait for some more comments before I go into the "more to the story" comment.

Originally, this was somewhat along the "Hostel" theme.  Early comments were that no one seemed to understand why anyone would kill just for "the fun of it", so I added in a new twist, so to speak, which turned out to change the entire overall plot or storyline.  It's purposely somewhat ambiguous, so each viewer can read their own ideas into it.

I'll go into that later.  Let's see what others have to say...

Goodness!  This could be time consuming...so I'll just say I posted on the critique page...I'm starving so going to make some dinner and read another screenplay!

MBCgirl =))

Hey, welcome MBC!  Glad to see someone new in here.  You picked a good script to start with (IMO).  I'll read your comments on Script Club, and look forward to your comments here.

Hope you like it!

I did like it...I suppose I have some similar observations as others have already shared.  I'm just learning my way around the site and looking forward to filling up my blue post stars

Hey...you live in AZ...how are you enjoying our lovely HOT weather?

Good luck on all the posted comments and thanks for the welcome!

~m~

As for little Joey, I wanted to show early on that nothing and no one was sacred, and I wasn't going to be pulling any punches, or following standard Hollywood do's and dont's..

Wow!  Not bowing down to Hollywood's sacred cow of not murdering children gratuitosly is a very brave choice!  That will learn them Hollywood types!

Thanks for your very insightful comments seamus.  Have you gotten past page 5 yet, or are you fixated on Joey's death?

I've gotten to page 15.  Now I'm fixated on the superflous dialogue.  

Gotcha.  Hopefully you can get through all the meaningless banter and maybe find some redeeming quality, or something that you enjoy.

Look forward to hearing more.

Must jump in here... I didn't like the child being killed either...but...at the end in credits we see the pay back for doing just that...and if you are in the early part of the read Seamus wouldn't know that...so read on Seamus!

In addition I had to reconcile myself to the mere fact that I didn't see the child being killed...the scene only insinuates it.

In other movies from hollywood...I have seen babies be born demons, or in my eyes the worst movie of all that I can not watch...the Exorcist...I can't take young children being called to from the depths of hell...that has always bothered me too.

For this particular purpose, I get it...do I like it...no, but there's a lot of things I don't like in all kinds of movies that other people absolutely love!

I'm going to respond to the dialogue in a bit....since I'm new, and don't fully understand all the "standard exceptable" logistics of screenplay writing, (I'm on this site to learn more) I might be a little off...but I liked the build up...I liked the different personalities.  I did agree that it could be shortened without taking away from the integrity of the story and moving it forward, but since I am a visual person...I liked being able to see the scenes in my mind as I read them.

Oh well...got to get to work....back later!
MBCgirl

Joey's death is supposed to bring feelings oif anger and hate.  It's obviously not a pleasant thing.  It's also something that we don't see very often, and that's why it's in here.

Hope you guys understand.

Up to page 76

I've noticed that you sometimes tell and then show such as on pgs 33 and 36 where you say they continue talking and then show it. It's better to show them talking rather than tell and then show. Always go for show.

It's diffcult to tell the characters through the dialgoue. That is a difficult part to do so try your best at geetting that down.

The world you created also seemed to perfect. There has to be some problems. I'm not talking about the murders. What about the fact that Danny looked at a manquenins breast?

Everywhere they go seems like a party is going to go on. Their needs to be a resting peeriod.  

You name specific songs, which is a no-no. you can have this in mind when writing to help you but not on a script

More to come later.
Gabe

Hey Gabe thanks for sticking with this.

Sorry you can't see the characters as different through what they say and how they say it.  I see each character as having their own unique way of talking, but maybe it's just me.  They are all friends for the most part, so they have consistencies in the way they communicate together for sure.

It's far from a perfect world, but it is the weekend after Christmas in which everyone is partying and skiing some of the best snow of the century.  In their world, as it is, everything is perfect, except that they just happened to "trust" the wrong people.

Danny never looked at a mannequin's breasts, either, BTW. She was a real, live girl with nice paid for boobs that cost her $3,000.  The fact the Danny is actually a breast doc, was supposed to add a little foreshadowing, and a little humor actually. after the fact, when you think about it (why would a guy who sees breasts every day of his life, actually look at a young babe's fake cans?).

Everywhere they go is definitely a party.  Not sure if you're a skier or not, but it can be, and usually is definitely that way, especially when you hook up with a group of 20 somethings who are not only rich, but also partiers.

The song placement was definitely a conscious decision I made.  Others have said what you're saying, but this is the least of my concerns.  The song choice is there for a reason, to set a mood and garner a certain feeling.  If you don't like them, that's cool, but as far as I'm concerned, they work well and create the mood I'm after.

Looking forward to hearing your final thoughts and feelings on this.  Lots of twists and turns ahead of you.  Hope you enjoy the read, and thanks for your comments Gabe.

Hey, Jeff!

Let me warn you, this is going to be one of the most uneven criticisms you’ll ever read.

It also contains S P O I L E R S.

But first, a little bit about myself so you know where I’m coming from. I’m very selective when it comes to horror movies, and I have a really short attention span when it comes to reading (I mean, come on, I’m nineteen!). However, I’m diligent and tenacious enough to finish what I start, and that’s why I usually (try to) get through a feature script in just a few hours, review and all.

Unfortunately, I had to take several breaks when reading Fade to White. It took me two days to finish it because, for the longest time, I just didn’t see the point. Yesterday evening, I seriously stopped reading at page forty and shut down my computer. I just couldn’t get into it.

I kept wondering, why wasn’t anything happening? I felt like I was watching Good Will Hunting, and the DVD kept skipping back to one of the bar scenes, over and over and over again. I just couldn’t take it anymore.

I went to bed, sort of frustrated, wanting to know if and when it got any better.

I decided to come back to the script the next day with a pessimistic attitude and a subjective opinion. I prepared myself for the worst, trying to remember what had already happened in the script, trying to remember the characters and their relationships with each other, which was actually pretty difficult.

I turned on the computer, opened the script, and started reading.

Then something happened.

The script got good. Really good. Like a completely different picture. Eighty pages later, I had finished the entire thing in just under forty minutes. I was speechless.

I haven’t felt this way about a horror feature since High Tension. Whereas that film ended with an unforgivable whimper, yours ends with a much-needed bang. And I’m pretty sure readers are going to be very pleased with your writing if they put up with the slow-burning start.

Unfortunately, that’s the biggest problem you’re going to face. Some people just won’t finish your script because there’s no story for far too long. There is just too much incessant dialogue for readers to be grabbed by the characters or your delayed hook. And it’s all because you wait too long to create conflict.

Your inspiration, or blueprint, for your script is Wolf Creek. Fair enough. I can see the similarities. However, if I remember correctly, that film actually had several different conflicts and motivations that separate it from yours.

For example, the kids in that film were not in one place talking for half an hour. They were on a road trip. They had a destination with a very mysterious history, so they had a lot to talk about. Not to mention they saw different things and met different people (including some really shady and potentially dangerous guys at a gas station). All of this posed a threat. It gave the audience the sense that something could go wrong at any minute.

I know what you might be thinking.

“My script does that, too! A bunch of people die in the first few minutes, and the killer gets away with it!”

You’d be right and wrong. See, Wolf Creek establishes a foreboding atmosphere without having to kill off anyone. How? Because within the first minute of the movie, it tells us thousands of people go missing in Australia every year. Then what does it do? It takes us directly to Australia, right smack dab in the middle of nowhere with three kids on a road trip.

We automatically know something is going to happen to them, and we spend the rest of the movie waiting for it. Will it be those shady guys at the gas station? Something at the crater site? The guy giving them a lift? It’s engaging from the start, and it keeps us guessing.

We never have the chance to guess with your script because we don’t have enough to work with. That’s why we feel left out as an audience for so long. It would be more interesting had you concealed the killer’s identity in the beginning, giving him/her subtle personality traits that we could later connect with new characters.

For example:

The killer pulls out a cigarette, pops his knuckles, and clenches his fist.

Now, any member of the audience who’s been paying attention can look back at the killer’s behavior and apply it to any of the new characters they’re seeing for the first time.

Nicole pops her knuckles. Johnny clenches his fist. Danny pulls out a cigarette.

“Dude, did you see that!?” says Audience Member #1. “That chick just popped her knuckles like the killer did! She’s the one!”

“No way!” exclaims Audience Member #2. “That guy right there keeps clenching his fist. It has to be him!”

I still know what you might be thinking.

“Dude, just stop. I’m not doing that! It would totally make the reveal(s) less surprising!”

It might soften them a little bit, but anyone who’s been paying close attention to the movie will appreciate the nuanced hints you’ve given earlier in the story. There is nothing a writer could do better for his audience than treat them with a certain amount of admiration and astuteness. Most of the time, the audience knows the story better than you do.

Your characters are actually pretty good, and they seem well-developed by the time everything’s all said and done. Jake’s the tough brute. Lisa’s the good hostess. Nicole loves the poison. All of them are easy to typify and separate, which is why you’ll have a hard time defending your script from being a typical slasher movie. And it’s not just you. Everyone gets categorized in these things. You’ve read Red Light. I’m guilty of it as well.

Janelle and Martin are your strongest characters. They’re cute, troubled, and likable. I enjoyed their shared bond as friends and the tight barrier they put up to keep it that way. Their quiet kiss on page 60 is really nice, and it counterbalances the brutal violence at the other end of the spectrum. It’s a good break from the sudden mayhem.

Megan and Nicole’s relationship is also good. I like their playfulness with each other, even though Nicole’s use of the word bitch seems quite rude in certain scenes. Isn’t it weird how fuck off sounds less offensive than ending a sentence with bitch?

The sugary-sweet goodness of Danny and Carlie’s relationship is disgusting and unrealistic. I don’t see the point in making them so courteous and bubbly, especially when the crux of the story unravels itself to the characters. The happy-go-lucky movie killer has been done before (see Funny Games and Serial Mom), and it just doesn’t belong here.

Other characters that don’t belong, or are never established well enough, include Bobby and Jill. Bobby’s only importance is to call the police, and Jill serves the plot long enough to get her head smacked against a rock and let the dogs loose. Whatever happens to them? There’s no closure with these people.

A couple of readers have criticized you for certain “spec screenplay” no-no’s. I personally don’t have a problem with them, but you’ll learn as a writer to use them less and less. I told naysayers I was perfectly satisfied with the camera angles I used in Red Light, and not even four months later, I’ve already gone back to remove them. I have a feeling the same thing will happen to you with song choices. You’ll give in eventually.

(Geez, for a moment there, I felt like a citizen of Stepford. Please conform, Jeff… we all want you to…)

Your action scenes are top-notch. You give us just enough detail to visualize everything without overdoing it. The many death sequences are horrifying and memorable, the highlight for me being a cruel scene where a character is lured to a shed and beaten like a punching bag.

Other deaths, including a homosexual dying in the closet, are written with just enough perverse spice to keep the readers engaged. The sudden death of a major character by gunshot was a really surprising turn of events for me, mostly because I didn’t predict this character to die, especially in such a reckless fashion. You definitely got me there.

But perhaps my favorite part of the entire screenplay is this bit of description:

His legs and boots, trudging along.

INT. SCHAEFER HOUSE - STAIRWAY/UPSTAIRS HALLWAY - CONTINUOUS

Carlie's legs now, walking up the stairs.

This is terrific writing for a spec script, believe it or not. There are no camera movements, no placement angles. Instead, you’ve created a distinct image just by following the motions of two people doing something at once. I’m actually jealous not to have thought of something like this myself.

[more...]

[continued...]

Let’s move on to some of the dialogue. I know everyone is on your case about it, but since it’s the biggest thing holding your script back, it’s important we cover it thoroughly. I’ll give you some examples of how you can tighten up your writing.

Example #1:

          CARLIE
   Hey Hun. Everything OK? You look
   pretty funny in that big suit.

          DANNY
   Everything's perfect, and if you
   think I look funny, you should see
   Jake right now.

That is funny as hell and really creepy, but do you see how it can be trimmed?

          CARLIE
   What’s with the suit? You look
   funny.

          DANNY
   You should see Jake.

It’s to the point and with fewer words.

Example #2:

Carlie comes to life in a flash, grabs her around the neck
as she passes. She's got her from behind, arms tightly
wrapped around her neck.

          NICOLE
   What are you doing, you bitch?

Put your fingers around your throat. Now squeeze. Really tight. And tighter. Come on! Squeeze!

Now say that line. Unless you want her to sound like Stephen Hawking, it just ain’t happening.

Example #3:

          DANNY
   Frozen? How could they be frozen in
   here...there's no water or anything,
   is there?

          JAKE
   Well, there's obviously a leak in
   the roof somewhere, and it seems to
   be hitting the piles, cause I've
   seen 'em frozen like this before.

Just trim it up! Less is more.

          DANNY
   Frozen? Is that possible?

          JAKE
   I’ve seen it happen before. A leak in
   the roof could be hitting the piles.

Do you see the polishing that can be done?

Example #4:

          CARLIE
   That's so funny...that's the second
   time in the last few hours that
   someone said that to us. I have to
   say that I did a pretty good job
   when I looped this one. He's a good
   guy...he really is. Aren't ya Honey?

She kisses him. He smiles.

          DANNY
   Yeah thanks Lisa. Aren't we just
   the cutest couple you've ever seen?

This is the perfect time to include some foreshadowing, and get rid of that “cute couple” line.

          CARLIE
   That's so funny. That's the second
   time in the last few hours that
   someone said that to us. I have to
   say I did a pretty good job when I
   looped this one. He's a good guy.
   Aren’t you, honey?

          DANNY
   Most of the time.

They kiss.

Example #5:

          DANNY
   Hey, how about we pay the tab since
   you guys were cool enough to let us
   join you? OK?

          LISA
   No way! We drank alot. Jake?

          JAKE
   Yeah, Danny, that's too much man.
   We did drink a shitload. Why don't...

          CARLIE
   Let us get it. Seriously guys. We
   insist.

Be careful about forcing something onto the characters and the audience. Instead, maybe Lisa and Jake catch Danny paying the entire tab, and that’s when they briefly talk about it.

          DANNY
       (to Sara)
   Just put the whole thing on my tab.

Sara nods.

        LISA
   Danny, what are you doing? You didn’t
   have to do that!

        DANNY
   It’s really not a problem.

        JAKE
   Nah, man, it’s too much.

        DANNY
   You guys were cool enough to let us
   join you. Please. We insist.

Now, Danny and Carlie don’t sound so boisterous and pompous about paying the check. I understand your intention was to make them overly sweet, but you don’t have to hammer it into our heads. Ease up a little bit on their attitude. Judging by the reactions of others, your audience will appreciate it so, so much.

I’m giving you all of this advice because you’ve been a really active member on the forum, and you deserve a break. All of my comments are meant to help, not undermine, so take them with a very small grain of salt. I mean, seriously, I’m an unemployed kid with no plans for college. Don’t jump off a cliff if I raise my hand to speak.

Assuming this is a first or second draft, it’s a promising start, and definitely something that will only improve from here. Despite the flawed beginning, the final forty-or-so pages are some of the most intense I’ve come across in a spec script, and they warrant a recommendation from me.

If you had asked me yesterday if I recommended Fade to White, I would have said no. Absolutely not.

I’m glad I wasn’t asked.

All the best,

Chris

Hey Chris, thanks for sticking with it and providing this well thought out review and commentary.  I will address this all ASAP, and give you some insights as well.  I gotta go hit the links first though.

I totally appreciate your input!

Hello to Chris and Dreamscale

First things first...Chris, you mention that you are only 19 and yet your comments are intellectually stimulating...they make perfect sense...I am so impressed!  Really I am!  Your communication is well thought out and I believe helpful to the person writing the screenplay...and I think that is commendable.   It's easy to throw out criticism...but not all criticism leads to change...or makes the person want to change for that matter.

I joined this site to learn how to write screenplays...I have been writing most of my life...commercials, dating and relationship articles, articles related to healthcare and currently I am writing a book...so before I started writing a screenplay I wanted to read a few and get to know the process.   However...when it came to the criticism I read here with not much constructive application...I guess being new...I thought, "EGADS!!! I may never want anyone to critique my  screenplay!!! lol I'd be crushed! *wink*  No - I am not that fragile...but I think you know what I mean.

Dreamscale...rather than go on and on about the endless "chatter"...seems like our "chatter" has gone on and on...  I think Chris has done a great job of offering you some things to think about and consider changing as have a few others.   It would be so easy to rework your front end that really is a bit long, take out just some of the "sugar dripping sweetness" of Danny and Carlie and as Chris suggested, maybe include a few places where he isn't all "honey, Hun Bun, Danny overboard."

I liked the Jill and Bobbie portion because I believe it brought in an element of hope for what was going on in the house....of course at first you don't get that but when things begin to happen you almost hold your breath a little when Jill says she's going to stop by.  I think maybe if Jill had a cell phone in her hand and was trying to call the police because she heard something coming from the wood shed...only problem she dials and the dogs take off...she slips in the snow, hitting her head and you see the cell phone lit in blue, snow flakes falling on it and you hear the police dispatcher say hello...hello...only Jill can't answer back.  

I too thought the Carlie up the stairway and Danny coming back from the shed was very cool...in my mind I could picture them both taking those steps at the same time.  A brilliant move in my book and a tension builder....at this point we still don't know if Carlie is in on this or not but we're sure to find out.

Megan's pre-death in the closet was really intense and there was that overshadowing seduction element.  This visual was outstanding especially when we see "Durango, Heaven on earth" go red...what an obvious opposite statement to the scene!

I too wanted Marty and Jannelle to make it...but as the movie continued I could see why they couldn't.  I think you visuals and set ups are really good.

With regard to the drinking...I have a bunch of friends that behave like that!   I have also personally taken part in my share of "Pub Crawls" while up skiing.  The fact that the situation changes is sure to sober someone up pretty fast...the human body responds differently when the adrenaline starts pumping...the jolt is equal to at least a good hot strong cup of coffee...so I think it's okay.

One question I would pose about the ending credit pieces where more of the story is revealed/explained...what if the piece where Xavier kills Tobias as the payback for not following the rules when he kills the child - were to follow the opening scenes of the Tobias killings?  By moving this piece forward there would be quick resolution to the shock of the child being killed.  Danny and Carlie could still be there...but they are off screen so you wouldn't be giving anything away.  Xavier is talking to them about the money that will be ready when they have returned from their trip to help them get their business started. Xavier says his "godlike" remarks to add to the creepy setting...we still wouldn't know who to suspect but we would have some motive for the events and build up as we would be trying to figure out "WHO."  You could then add some remarks from a charater or two to move that along.  It would make better sense in my mind at least if the information was played out this way and it would help move the screenplay forward.

I like that you are trying to do some unique things. Not that many people went to see "Mama Mia"...but I did   They had some cute scenes that ran after the movie ended and it worked really well, but this was a feel good musical that left me feeling happy.  You'd just have to make sure people sat tight to get through the credit elements so they could get the missing pieces.

Hope some of this makes sense and is helpful...

MBCgirl

Hey Chris (Sham), just got back from some golf.  Again, thanks so much for your comments...they're all well recieved and very well thought out and articulated.

I'll try and respond in the order you've brought things up to make things easier to follow.

Just about everyone has lambasted me for the long, slow buildup in the bar, with all the meaningless and trivial banter.  I totally understand where you're coming from here.

Thanks so much, BTW for your very positive comments about the 2nd half of the script and the allusion to High Tension, which I also loved.

As for all the Wolf Creek comparisons, I have this to say.  I loved Wolf Creek, and when I first saw it in the theater, I was totally bored and a little upset about the first hour or so in, because in my mind, literally nothing was happening.  There's only 3 charcaters (and I didn't see much conflict at all) and even the scenery of the outback wasn't that interesting.  I got to thinking (several times actually), what in the world is going on here?  Where is this thing going, and when is it going to get there. When it got there, for me at least, the payoff was hugely worth the ride, and I actually appreciated how Greg McLean had purposely disarmed me and lulled me into a very calm state.  Then...BANG...everything changed.

I don't want to say that Wolf Creek was a blueprint, but it definitely came to mind in several ways (as did Hostel, another favorite of mine).  I wanted to create confusion as to what was going on and when and where things were going to pick up.  I wanted to up the odds with alot more characters, and I actually thought that I had provided a number of different and interesting settings, and potential situations, as well as some funny dialogue and interactiosn between everyone.  I guess I slathered it on kinda thick!

After my initial kills, which I wanted to be very brutal and shocking (especially by offing an innocent little kid), I really didn't want any foreboding atmosphere.  I was hoping that the viewer would be assuming that Tobias would be showing up in Durango at some point to start another killing spree, and until he did, I wanted things to be very light.

I understand what you're saying about possibly not revealing Tobias as the initial killer, but I actually wanted to switch things up and show the killer right off the bat.  Something that you rarely if ever see in a horror flick.  And then by introducing a large number of likeable (in my mind at least) protaganists, I was trying to set the viewer up for a big twist, in that first of all Tobias never shows up, and then the least likely bad guys, become the antagonists, and take everyone out sytematically.

Glad you liked Marty and Janey and their interactions.  I like them also, and was trying to get the viewer routing for them to possibly save the day and run away together happily ever after.

Nicole is a Bitch for sure, when she gets drunk.  She's jealous of Megan and Lisa's long friendship.  She's also a different class of person for the most part, and I'm glad that she came off that way.

As for Danny and Carlie, I'm a bit surprrised that most don't like them or their interactions.  I agree that I was laying things on thick, but for me, they come off as a real cool and goofy couple that's totally in love.  I guess I need to tone them down a bit, and I can easily do that.

Sorry you didn't appreciate Bobby and Jill.  I actually really like them, as I think they provide some comic relief in their interactions and also provide another possibility for hope in Jill saving the day at the Schaefer house, or Bobby calling the cops).  Jill lives in the end, and her survival just may play a part in the sequel.  As for Bobby...originally, he had a final scene when the cops come over and tell him the situation.  Before they leave, he asks a cop to get him another beer. I decided to cut the scene and assume that his reveal with the broken leg was enough of closure for him.

Yeah, the song placements...I love them and hope I never give into being a conformist...cause I'm sure not a conformist!  I like the way they fit into the overall feeling of the script.  Obviously, if it ended up that I couldn't use the exact choices I made, no big deal.  More on the actual choices in minute...

Glad you liked the kill scenes.  Thanks!  I actually put alot of time into them, and spent many a night perfecting how they'd go down and what made sense in terms of how they might actually be pulled off.  I too, love Marty's death.  Someone else said they didn't like it at all, which was a big shock to me.  Glad they worked for you.

The legs walking scene...another one I really like, and thanks so muc for the compliments!.  I spent awhile on this one as well, and reworked it numerous times to get to where it is now.  Originally, I had camera angles and shots in there, that I worked out.  And now, back to the song selection, because here's where it really works (for me at least).  You might remember that Kashmir was playing during this scene.  Maybe you're not familiar with it, cause it is an old song, but I hand picked it because the beat of it (or tune to it, while Jimmy Page is strumming that memerable riff), just seems to sound like walking to me...trudging along.  If you don't know it, check it out and see if you don't agree.

OK, I'll respond to your next post later...gotta get ready for a big night out on the town.

Hey Jeff, finished the script. Really good, entertaining read. Haven't read any comments so prepare for the odd repeat.

First off you have to either trim this down or reveal this game a bit more in the bar scene. Like I said earlier I liked the dialogue and was entertained by it but there's no horror or suspence at all. I don't know how you would do it...maybe, have a murder in the toilets or something?`I'm sure you could come up with better if that's the way you wanted to go.

The plane scene seems to be the easiest way you could reduce the page count but I'm not just meaning that. The structure seems to be the problem not the length. I think it's past half way through that the first murder takes place. There's a couple of hints in Danny's dialogue but I think it needs a few more hints.

I made a list of some things I liekd and disliked so I'll just go through them.

Liked.

Snowflake transitions

Whistling 'Somewhere over the rainbow'. That would be very creepy.

Seinfeld episode quote. That was funny, my favourite episode so I was thinking of that before one of the characters mentioned it.

Jill's death was excellent I thought. The writing and it was pretty imagintaive...oh, actually she didn't die did she? Jill's accident then.

On page 85 I liked the transition to the Lexus. I think it drove past the cop car.

I liked more than just this but I only started making notes about half way through lol.

Disliked.

Everyone seemed to say 'also', instead of 'aswell' or 'too'. I don't know many people who would say also so I think having all your characters say it makes their dialogue a little samey. Although, is that an American thing?

Alot of times you write in the action 'The screen fades to white'. Just format that as a transition because it's a little distracting.

On one occasion you put Mr in the dialogue, I think you need to write it out as Mister. haha, I'm getting all nit-picky now.

When I finished the story (pre credits). I was going to say the motivation was lacking. Did Danny have a bit of a God-complex? Being a doctor. You reveal what was going on during the credits and although that was pretty cool, some people may miss that. Something just didn't really sit well with me about that aswell. You've sat through a 2 hour film thinking one thing and then the credits tell you it was about something completely else. That might just be me though.

I think you have to go through this and really analyse every page. What can you cut? Can you put in a little more suspence, a little more of a reveal?

Really liked the script mate.

Ste

Hey Chris, sorry for the delay, here's my response to your 2nd post.

I know what you're saying about the dialogue.  I guess it comes down to personal preferance.  I like part of your 1st example and other parts of my original. I definitely will be relooking at all the dialogue and see what I can cut/alter, etc. without causing too much pain to myself.

Example 2 - Actually, Carlie gets Nicole around the neck with her arm, not her hands.  She doesn't have the hold sunk in too deep when Nicole first speaks, but I see where you're coming from here.

Example 3 - Point taken.  There are many examples of this sort of thing that could be easily reduced.  Guess these characters just serious windbags!

Example 4 - I like this one!  Good idea.

Example 5 - Not sure I like this or not.  I'll think about it.  I do see where you're coming from again though.

All your comments are welcome Chris.  Whether or not I completely agree doesn't even matter.  No cliff diving for this guy

Actually, this isn't a 1st or 2nd draft.  It was oribinally completed about a year ago.  I've made numerous changes, deletions, additions, etc.  I was pretty sure it was near final draft, until I threw it up in here.  I will be making some tweaks, based on what I've been hearing, and hopefully get it into a final draft stage.

Thanks for the compliment about the last 40 pages, as well as your recommendation.  I appreciate it.

Hi MBCgirl, thanks for all your input here.  Sorry I didn't get back with you earlier.

As you and others have noted, a few tweaks seem to be in order in the buildup.  I am planning on shortening the bar scene, and maybe even cutting the Rosie character on the plane.  I also agree that I need to pull out some of the "Huns", "Hunbuns", "Honeys", etc., but not nearly all of them!  I still don't see it as a big problem but most don't seem to like Danny and Carlie because of this, so I will tone them down a bit.

Glad you enjoyed Jill and Bobby.  I actually thought about the cell phone idea, but decided it wasn't necessary based on the 2 way radios they're using, but thanks for the idea.

Thanks for the legs walking compliment.  As I responded to Chris, I really think that's a cool visual as well.  And see what you think about my comment about Kashmir playing during the scene.  Just sounds like a beat made for walking, lol!

Glad you liked Megan's pre death scene. I actually tried to use colors as a theme in a number of places.  Glad it worked here for you and you saw it.

Janey did put up a good fight, but Marty was just too hammered to do anyone any good.  Glad you enjoyed them.

Agreed with your drinking comments.  Alot of this is actually taken from experience on ski trips with a big group of skiers...and partiers!  The body does have a way of sobering up under the right circumstances.

Good point about the Xavier scene.  Not sure I like exactly what you're saying, because I do want the viewer to be thinking that Tobias is going to show up and start killing again in Durango.  But I do agree that I need to somehow work this in a bit deeper, as X has alot more to do with things than people seem to understand.  Like your "Godlike" comment!

Yeah, my real intent was to do things as differently as possible, not follow standard plotting, structure, etc.  I was definitely going for uniqeness in every way.  But, uniqueness isn't always easy to follow or appreciate, so maybe I need to tone down that aspect of it a bit.

Thanks again for all your valuable input!

Hey Dreamscale,

Got to finish the script. Sorry for the wait. Been writing alot.

I didn't find how Tobias died satisfying for recompensation for the child. It's difficult to do something like that. I'll do something much worse. lol.

That whole fight scene btw Danny, Carlie, Janey, didn't seem true. Would someone stand there watching someone else beat te one they like with a pan? Or even make a escape? They can gather themselves later on, once out of danger, similar to Hostel.

That was something interesting in keeping the couple alive. I like those types  of stories but what makes these stories likeable is what the characters possess that the audience would like to possess. Like Dexter, or Tom Ripley.

I'm not sure if you can create that type of end credits like that. But I'm unsure. So, just bringing notice.

In the end, I enjoyed the tale. What I see you need to do is make the characters more life like through dialgoue mostly. Make Danny and Carlie likeable or sympathetic or both.  And cut down the pages minimum, 100.  

Hope this helps,
Gabe

Thanks for finishing it Gabe.

Sorry you didn't find Tobias' death worthy of what he did to Joey, but then again, we're not in torture porn land here, so basically he got what was coming to him, however short and sweet it was.

Sorry you didn't find the finale real either.  You're the first to say that.  I don't agree with you on this at all, as it all makes perfect sense to me, and I spent tons of time figuring out how this could play real.  Not sure what you're really saying here, but I think you're referring to when Janey came in and saw that Johnny had just been "panned".  He was already dead when she came in, and even though she saw Danny above him with the Le Creuset, shock took over and she didn't really know what was going on or what to do.  When Danny picked up the fire poker, she basically came to, and made a break for it, down the back hall.

Not sure what you mean about the "missing scenes" either.  If you're saying you aren't familiar with them, I can tell you that it's done every now and then.  Best example was "Wild Things".  If you're not familiar with that flick, you should check it out.

Take care.

Hey Dreamscale,

About the missing scenes, I've got the dvd of Wild Things. What I mean is if this should be included into a screenplay, the actual credits with the missing scenes. I thought that would be up to the director or later in production if rewrites are necessary. Hope this makes more sense.

Gabe

Well, whether they should be included or not in a spec script doesn't concern me.  You can probably tell that I don't like following the well beaten path, and as far as rules?  Hey, they're there to be broken, right?

Hey Ste, thanks for your valuable input.  I appreciate it for sure.  Sorry not to get back with you earlier.  Here're my comments.

I guess I'm going to have to listen to what I'm hearing and by that I mean, shorten the bar scene and add some initial suspense and horror.  Oiginally, I really wanted there to be no suspense in the buildup.  I actually liked the disarming calmness, but I see it's not appreciated.

I've gotten lots of great ideas from various people, but one thing that I have already decided to do, is take your suggestion to add some suspense and horror into the beginning.  I like your "toilet" kill idea, but I may tweak it a bit.  Bottom line is that I think I'll reveal Danny as the killer much earlier on...either before he meets up with Carlie in the store, or at the bar itself.  That shoud add suspense to every scene afterwards, and definitely place uncertainty on Carlie.

I think you (or was it Abe?) mentioned on the Script Club thread about having some characters leave the group and go off somewhere (like the bathroom).  I actually had a scene like that in mind early on, but scrapped it.  I think it's coming back.

Likes -

Thanks for not only for your compliments here, but also for picking up on them, as each and every thing you mentioned is also a personal favorite of mine, and I really thought more would pick up on them or mention them.

I wanted to use the falling snow (and snow in general) as a theme or the like throughout the script.  The snowflake transitions worked well I thought and would be really cool visual ways to bring on the next scene.

Danny's wierd whistling of "Somewhere over the Rainbow" has always been something that I really thought was cool...and creepy.  Some of my initial readers said they hated it because it was so evil to use that wonderful song in such a creepy way.  Exactly what I was going for!

That's also my favorite Seinfeld episode and I thought it was pretty funny the way Lisa and Carlie eluded to it...twice!

Jill's demise was an original idea I had before I figured out how and where I was going to use it.  I like the visual here of the 5 big dogs taking her for a ride, and her inevitable collision with the rock.  I decided to have her live in the end, cause I didn't think it was fair that there were no survivers.  She will have a brief role in the sequel also, BTW.

The transition from the police SUV to the passing Lexus is also something I thought really worked well.  It shows time well and let's you know that help is on the way and not far behind.

Dislikes -

Someone else mentioned the same thing about alot of characters ending their lines in "also".  I think they also end in "you know" alot.  I'd say that may be an American thing or then again, it may just be a BushWorld thing!

"The screen fades to white" things are obviously an ongoing theme again, relating back to the title.  Personally, I like the visual here again, as apposed to the usual fade out or fade to black stuff.  How do you recommend that I format this?  I'm not sure I follow why you found it to be distracting.

"Mr." compared to "Mister" for me at least is not only an accepted abbreviation, but it also saves me 3 spaces, and since I'm obviously a bit on the wordy side, every 3 spaces sure helps!

As for the "missing scenes", a few have commented already.  For me, they're a great way to keep the viewers in their seats while the credits role.  I also think they're a cool way to fill in gaps or questions that may have arisen during the movie.

The initial missing scene, which first introduces us to Xavier and gives some motivation for Danny and Carlie's killing, is meant to come as a shock and surprise.  The real story here though hasn't been touched upon yet by anyone.  Abe had some ideas but I don't think he quite "got it" either.  It's ambiguous and intentially done that way to let each viewer have their own theory, so to speak.  I think it needs a bit more development, and I'm not going to explain it yet, but if you reread that scene, and focus in on Xavier himself, you may see where I was going here.  In the actual movie, the visuals would make things alot clearer.

Thanks again so much for reading my script and giving such useful commentary.

I owe you some reviews and will get on it ASAP!

Well, I finally had a chance to look this over -- 124 pages is asking an awful lot of your readers -- and I skimmed over several of the comments, too.

I need to begin with something that kind of blows my mind.  Maybe not everybody noticed this -- but I am sure you did -- when I was ripping on your logline:

Quoted from Me, on August 20: ...it sure sounds like it could be "Wolf Creek" on skis.

Now I come to find virtually every reader comparing this to Wolf Creek -- and if I got that from the logline -- well, maybe your logline is perfect haha.  Sometimes I just don't know WTF, you know?

Anyway I will refrain from beating that dead dialogue horse that you have up front, but I would be remiss not to add my voice to those who found it tedious.  It was a slog, man, and everybody telling you to trim it down is right.

I will also say that holding up Wolf Creek as a template is not quite money in my book, as I found it to be a terribly flawed film for precisely that reason.  I know you liked it, but I fell asleep twice on that film before I finally made it all the way through, and I think I am in the majority.

So, enough said on that.  Otherwise, in the second half, I found lots to like here.  Your writing is crisp and descriptive without being overblown.  Nice kills, great tone that you maintained with consistency, and a decent batch of characters, although the leads could use a little work.

You also know that your endless song references will be frowned upon -- but if you insist on them -- well, such is the arrogance of the writer.  Sometimes I do not listen, either. But, technically, you only get that privilege if the song is integral to the plot.  Here, particularly in the bar, it seems that any number of classic rock tunes could be plugged in and work equally as well.

Now, as for Danny and Carlie, I do not like these guys for the same lovey-dovey reasons you have already heard several times. And it already sounds like you plan to scale that back, which is good.  I do get it, though, that we should not really like these anti-heroes too much.  But you can love to watch a character you despise, and you have not quite accomplished that here.  You need to work on these two, and that may be a topic for the script club thread.

Some bullets:
*  I did not care for shooting the child.  I see the point later, but you will lose a significant fraction of your audience right at the outset who will not see the story through because of the choice you are making there.  Be warned.
*  My favorite characters were Jill and Bobby.  I think the story would benefit with more of them.  Jill should return to the mayhem at some point, and Bobby should steel himself and hobble out into the snow for a bit of fun, as well.
*  I do not like that a fireplace poker is just sitting there in the kitchen.  Too convenient, and just weird.
*  I do not like that the policeman's radio suddenly goes on the fritz.  Too convenient.  They should just attack him, as they end up doing that anyway.  Have them surprise him and take the radio or something.
*  The whole motivation is skewed for me, and I do not understand.  Xavier is paying them to do this?  For him?  And why this particular group of people?  Leaving this "mysterious" is one way to go, I suppose, but it is not the most satisfying option.  Since you invest so many pages in tying up loose ends, I would encourage you to answer the biggest mystery at the heart of this story with some of your after-credits shenanigans.

This is competent work, D.S., and your talent shines on many of these pages once you finally open the faucets, but that front end is just killing you.  There is absolutely no reason for this script to exceed 100 pages.  Shoot for 90, but allow yourself 100, and see how close you can get.  It will be the absolute best thing you can do for this story.  

Hi All - I thought initially from what I read, that Dreamscale did want some help with the slugline...I like the one line written on a t-shirt in this movie...Durango, Heaven on Earth...the words get soaked in Megan's blood which offers an opposite picture.

Here's the slug line from Jeff: Fade to White by Jeff Bush (dreamscale) - Horror -

Danny and Carlie are in for a lot more than just skiing, the weekend after Christmas, in Durango, Colorado.  The white of the falling snow won’t be the only color they’ll see...

Could a slugline be developed with the "Heaven on Earth" line in it...someone mentioned before they knew there had to be a line that would stand out in this screenplay.

Just a thought

MBCgirl

Hey Bert, thanks so much for reading my script and giving your feedback.  I truly appreciate it.

OK, so here're my comments back...

Very funny about your original comments about "Wolf Creek on skis"...yes, I was laughing quite a bit and was looking forward to what you would say about that.  Obviously, I really do need some help in terms of my logline.  Funny, huh?  I don't like my logline and actually came up with it rather quickly, not liking anything I had come up with in the past.

Yeah, it is 123 pages as it stands now, but I really feel that it reads much quicker than you'd think.  Obviously, the last 70 pages read much quicker than the first 50, but I think that's due to the fact that in any script, the initial build up, or introduction, is going to take longer cause everything has to be set up and characters have to be introduced.  Yes...I know...there's alot of meaningles banter that I will attempt to trim out, but still, with a large cast of characters, the intros do take up page length and space...no way around that.

Going back to the "Wolf Creek" comparisons, here's my take on it, as I've said before.   It's not in any way a template that I wanted to use, or tried to emulate, but...question for you...did you end up liking "Wolf Creek" or not?  Did you think that McLean did a good job in disarming you into that somber state that you fell into?  When all was said and done, did you like or dislike "Wolf Creek", for what it was?  And more importantly, we can all easily say what we like and dislike in any movie, and how we think it could be better, but let's understand that "Wolf Creek, was made for under $2 Million, and made around $15 Million here at the NABO alone...it made a HUGE profit based on it's budget, anyway you look at it, and would have to be called a HUGE success.

Thanks so much for your compliments on the writing in the 2nd half.  Much appreciated!

The song choices..yes, I am arrogant...I guess!  OK, I am, damnit!  Sue me!  I like how they work though and if you've read my other responses, you will get some ideas as to why certain ones are there.  If they can't be, then OK, but for a spec script, I'm always going to throw out what I want to be in there.

Danny and Carlie are going to be scaled down...actually, Danny is going to be scaled down quite a bit...Carlie is Carlie, and I think that's the way she's going to be.  I think you (and everyone else) are going to appreciate her more once Danny is toned down.

Bullets - Joey being killed has garnered quite a bit of debate.  Actually, since I wrote this part in, I have heard lots of complaints, but that's actually exactly what I wanted.  It's way too far and few that we see anything that is contraversial in this nature...and again, I really wanted to say up front that no punches were going to be held back and no one was safe or sacred.  I stand by this and hope it stays in.

Glad you liked Bobby and Jill...I do as well.  I wish I could make them have a bigger part, but I don't see that happening.  Others have disliked them and found them to be wasted characters, which I don't agree with.

The fire poker sitting on the kitchen island is explained in the missing scenes section.  That's why it's in the missing scenes cause at first, it makes absolutely no sense.  Read it again, and I think you'll get it.

The radio going out only gives Danny and Carlie an extra few minutes. remember, it's snowing like crazy, and although I do find this to be one of the very few cliches in here, I like how it works.  On a side note, I actually did some research into police procedures and what would actually happen in this case, and the bottom line is that if an officer doesn't check in with either a normal respons or a code, dispatch would send in reinforcements within a few minutes...so it really doesn't come into play, as Danny and Carlie are out of there pretty quickly anyway, and the police station isn't that close, so they have some time to "get away".

As I've said before, I don't want to give anything away quite yet about the "real motivation" or what is really going on here.  It will come out though, and I am pretty sure that based on feedback, it needs to be played up quite a bit. I think with actual visuals though, it would be alot more clear.

Thanks for your compliments in my writing.  I did spend alot of time on this, and worked through everything over and over.  I don't see this as a movie that is under 100 minutes though.  I think based on the heavy dialogue (which is going to be trimmed a bit) it reads longer than it will play out.

Thanks again, Bert.  Let me know what you think about these comments.  Take care, bud.

  

Quoted from Dreamscale "The screen fades to white" things are obviously an ongoing theme again, relating back to the title.  Personally, I like the visual here again, as apposed to the usual fade out or fade to black stuff.  How do you recommend that I format this?  I'm not sure I follow why you found it to be distracting.

I didn't see any reason to have it in the action. I would personally have it as a transition on the right.

                                                                                                FADE TO: WHITE

Don't get me wrong it wasn't a massive problem. Just a bit quirky I thought. I did get the theme of the snow throughout and I thought that was a good idea.

Quoted from Dreamscale I don't like my logline...

I think the new girl up there has hit on something with her "heaven on earth" idea.  I like the irony there.  I would also shave off the Christmas reference, as the holiday itself really plays no role in the story.

Quoted from Dreamscale ...question for you...did you end up liking "Wolf Creek" or not?

I came away wishing it were better, and frustrated that (to me) it would have been easy to make it the better film it could have been.  Same thing applies to "Fade to White".

Quoted from Dreamscale ...yes, I am arrogant...I guess!  OK, I am, damnit!

I think you have to be arrogant to be a writer -- to believe that what you have written deserves to be read -- that requires a great deal of confidence, really.  But you need to be aware that a pro reader will take those song titles as amateur, and then think less of your script because of it.

I mean, Zepplin?  Everybody knows that it is practically impossible to get one of their songs -- but if I were to include one, I think "No Quarter" is what actually fits the bill for this story.

Quoted from Dreamscale Joey being killed has garnered quite a bit of debate.

I am not saying it is right or wrong here, actually.  My only point was the risk that many readers may set this aside at that very early point, and never even see the remainder of the script.  You have to trust your instincts, of course, but it is a risk you do not necessarily have to take.

Quoted from Dreamscale Glad you liked Bobby and Jill...I wish I could make them have a bigger part

I think Bobby staggering through the snow and stumbling upon the carnage could be very compelling.  If you leash yourself, I'll bet it could be done in a page or two.  Those characters are only wasted if they do not live up to their potential.

Quoted from Dreamscale The fire poker sitting on the kitchen island is explained in the missing scenes section.

Sorry.  Missed that detail.  It may still lead to eye-rolling at the time, though.

Quoted from Dreamscale I don't want to give anything away quite yet about the "real motivation" or what is really going on here...it needs to be played up quite a bit.

I would not say big-time, but even a few hints would help.  I was genuinely confused.

Quoted from Dreamscale I think...it reads longer than it will play out.

That may be, but you still gotta get somebody to pick up that 124-pager and read it through.  A pro reader is going to be frowning before they even flip open the cover, and fair or not, you do need to think about that.

Quoted from bert That may be, but you still gotta get somebody to pick up that 124-pager and read it through.  A pro reader is going to be frowning before they even flip open the cover, and fair or not, you do need to think about that.

Before I start I just want to echo what Bert said, In my contributions on the script club thread I did say that I think this is a much shorter movie than the script length suggests. But this was based on what I would think is overwritten action. There are many cases of things that are said in 2 lines that can be easily said in 1. When I read professional scripts the first thing I notice is how tight the writing is, how not a word is wasted. It can be almost shorthand sometimes. I really think this script could be tightened up somewhat and you could shave quite a few pages from the finished screenplay.

Anyway, I don't want to say anything else I have already said in the Script Club thread, I just wanted to drop a quick review in here on this decent screenplay.

Getting past the first half and all the things you have already said you are going to take another look at I thought the climax to this script was excellent. As soon as they got to the house the pace was spot-on. Full of tension and some great moments of terror. I liked the way the story unfolded, the killings were all brilliantly handled and I especially like the final killings of Martin and Janelle, really good having the cop play such a big role in that. Bobby and Jill was a great side story and it maybe would have been good to have Jill somehow play a larger role in things, but I understand the importance of her being there and that was a good way to get the police on the scene, nicely handled.

I don't get the point of the scene in the store however, if you were looking for something to cut I would suggest this whole scene. Unless I have missed something important I fail to see what it brings us in terms of character development or moving the story along.

Reaching the end I was left pretty clueless as to what the point was however. It probably would be better to have some kind of motivation there for why they were being trained to kill. I guess at least if gives you something for the sequel, If that is what you were planning to do. But even a quick monologue from Xavier about how the young of the world need to suffer or the sinners need to pay etc.. etc.. Would certainly at least make us believe there is something deeper going on here.

On a similar vein, what was the motivation for Danny and Carlie to do this? It cannot be just because Xavier is paying for Danny's office. If this is their first time it would have been nice to have some crisis of conscience, some conflict about what they have done. How did they get involved in the first place?

Anyway, just wanted to try and point out some of the things I enjoyed about your screenplay as well as some areas I am not sure about. I feel a bit bad it is getting a ripping over at Script Club but am sure we will move onto some of the more positive elements soon.

It is a nice job and am confident that once you start work on some of the changes you want to make this will be an excellent screenplay.

Nice one,

Cheers.

Jeff,

This won’t be a blow-by-blow since we’ve already done that on the discussion thread.  I'll focus on the areas of concern.

SPOILERS:

Although Tobias’ kill scene seems gratuitous at first glance, I rather liked the way it came off. Especially after knowing the ending.  You write action very well.
But killing the kid bothered me and not for the obvious reason (hey, Cronenberg had a kid killed in “A History of  Violence."  Yeah, but he's Cronenberg...) What troubled me was that Tobias is punished by Xavier for murdering the boy.
Why should Lucifer care whether a little kid lives or dies?
Maybe Tobias spares the child and is punished for being weak.  That would be consistent with what he know -- be very careful about breaking certain rules.  It will only add confusion.

Having X give  the gun to Danny and Carlie  and having them blow Tobias away works on two levels: A demonstration of Xavier's power/control, as well as Danny/Carlie getting their first kill.  There needs to be an ice breaker for them to later have a comfort level  in the snuffing folks at the Schaefer House.

I think you are sacrificing story for the sake of being clever.  
The ending is a prime example.  You want to conceal Xavier's identity to give us the shock ending, but you don't give us any clues of his presence in the early part of the film.  So the clever reveal is wasted.
We should see Xavier at some point (maybe more than once) in the script early.
What if he is an eye witness to the Patterson killing.  We could see him interviewed on TV and describing the suspect (Tobias).  But he also says their was a Second Suspect, whom he couldn't identify by body type or gender (adding mystery).
SteBrown in the discussion thread mentioned throwing in a murder.  That's an excellent suggestion because until we get to the nitty-gritty kills around P 60, nothing exciting is going on.  There should be a trail of bodies leading to Durango.  
It would help if the murders seem to be following Danny and Carlie.   So what if we suspect them as the killers?    It's better to suspect them early and eliminate them as the killers.
I'm thinking if you are going to keep that store scene, maybe the clerk is murdered.  Police cars would be all over that place like ants.  That raises the tension right there -- we know the murderer is in town.

In High Tension, which I enjoyed despite the ending, we see everything from the victim’s perspective.  Since you want to go the unconventional route, have you given any thought to hiding the killers’ identity throughout the story and then using the flashbacks to reveal?

I still can’t make the connection between Blackbourn and Carlie/Danny?  Were they friends before Xavier entered their lives?  They seem to have a definite relationship as if it goes back a ways.

My two biggest problems are with Danny and Carlie, and Xavier.
The Allens are totally unconventional, to the point of being creepy.  They were so saccharin that I was sure they were simulacra. That was a red flag for me.  I thought they were programmed.  Are they supposed to be just that weird, or is that an act?
This definitely doesn't seem like their "first time."  They are way to at ease.  Before the first kill, I would think Danny and Carlie are on edge, anxious.  They come off like old pros.
Despite not liking Danny and Carlie, I think we should be following them more throughout the early part of the story.  They are your main characters.

Not sure why, but the whole setup seems like a game show?  Like Reality TV?
I know that isn't what's going on, but the way Carlie and Blackbourn converse on the slopes is... quirky.  Carlie tells "Blacky" of their experience offing the 20 somethings and then says to him, "you're up next...Telluride...same deal."
Why should Carlie know this information?  Because Xavier told her.  Doesn't seem to work for me.  Everybody taking turns??

What do you think of brining Jill and Bobby into the story earlier?  Maybe they were at the bar, introduced to D/C and then had to leave?

Here are the questions I have concerning Xavier.  The deal with D/C seems odd -- funding for his office?  Why not something that makes him wealthy, so he doesn't have to work?  They should be in a kind of paradise, to make babies and feed their cravings for murder. Who needs stinkin' work?
Is X protecting Danny and Carlie from the authorities?  A lot of people, including the waitress, saw them with the victims.  
And are we to think that Danny and Carlie will kill again?  There was a certain rush they got out of the murders, so why should they stop?  Right?
Personally, I'd rather have seen them get their comeuppance.

Not sure how these character find Xavier?  He doesn't have a website, haha.  Or does he find them?  How about a clue to set up your sequel.

We the audience should GET IT by the end.  Dump all the small talk in the bar, it serves no purpose.  Bump up the murders early.  Don't get toooo unconventional.  Work your cleverness within the lines of logic.  Make your CLUES distinct.
This is a horror story and so, speed up the action (writing action is your strength). Integrate Xavier more into the story, so his appearance in the end will have meaning. Spend more time with your main characters, so we get the feeling they are Victims; their POV.  Again, think High Tension.

Anyway, sorry to bust your chops on so much.  This is a case of you the too-clever story teller getting in the way of you the talented screenwriter.  
Hope everybody's comments have sparked a ton of ideas.  Good luck with the rewrites.

Hey GM, thanks for reading my script and commenting both here and over on the Script Club.  Your thoughts and comments are much appreciated.

OK, here're my thoughts back at ya...

IMO, just about any and every script you pick up, you can find words, phrases, entire paragraphs that "don't need to be there".  Obviously, some more than others.  I feel it's a matter of personal preference on what works and doesn't work in terms of how wordy, or how non wordy you are.  I like the flow of the writing here, and I don't think it's inflated very much at all.  Believe it or not, I have trimmed this script down a number of times, and feel pretty good about where it sits, in terms of the writing of action scenes, description, etc.  I do plan on cutting out some dialogue or shortening some lines, but I doubt I'll alter the writing of anything else.

Thanks for your compliments on the 2nd half of the script.  As I responded earlier, I really took alot of time to plan out each death and figure out how it could/would be accomplished.  Glad you thought they worked well.  I too like Martin's death and Janelle is my favorite character.  I wanted to give her a chance, and she did all she could with it, but in the end, Danny and Carlie needed to get away, so to move the story forward.

The store scene has been a pain in my balls since day 1, as no one has liked it from the very beginning.  It has been cut down quite a bit actually, and at less than 2 minutes, for me, I don't have a problem with it, but I agree that it would/will be at the top of the list of cuts.  What it does is 2 fold actually.  It's a place holder, so to speak, and allows me to start the "Jet Airliner" song inside the bar, and have the group leave their tables, and Danny and Carlie to sing along as they enter the bar.  Also, it was intended as some humor and the like when Danny gets caught looking at the clerks big cans (at the time, you don't know that he's a breast doctor, and when you find out, for me at least, it's kind of funny).  Agreed though, it may get the axe!

Ahhh, the ending...the real meaning...the motivation.  No one seems to get it yet, and I'm going to wait until everyone's had their say before I reveal what it's really all about, and why Danny and Carlie are doiing this.  The key is Xavier however, and if you reread his 1 and only scene, as the "missing scenes" start up, and concentrate on him and what he says, you might get a better idea.  It's obviously not developed enough, cause no one's getting it.  It does play into the sequel for sure, and will be fully developed and a much bigger piece in general.

Yeah, it's been a bit brutal at Script Club, but after the first few days, I got over it, and actually appreciate all the negativity even more than the positive things (but, I love hearing anything positive as well for sure!!).  Most of the negativity has focused on things that I purposely intended on doing, so the fact that they're being attacked is OK, as it let's me know how people think, and I can then make my mind up from there about how to go forward.

Hope you enjoyed it overall, and I appreciate your feedback and compliments.  I'll have to read and critique one of yours in the near future.

Thanks man!!

Quoted from Dreamscale Ahhh, the ending...the real meaning...the motivation.  No one seems to get it yet, and I'm going to wait until everyone's had their say before I reveal what it's really all about, and why Danny and Carlie are doiing this.  The key is Xavier however, and if you reread his 1 and only scene, as the "missing scenes" start up, and concentrate on him and what he says, you might get a better idea.  It's obviously not developed enough, cause no one's getting it.  It does play into the sequel for sure, and will be fully developed and a much bigger piece in general.

So he is Death or something? and maybe being a bit bored he has promised Danny and Carlie a longer life if they do some killing for him?  Something along those lines anyway. I missed the long pointy fingers first time around, If not Death then the devil and they have sold their souls.

Yes, GM, now you're onto something there.  Xavier is indeed Satan, and it's souls he's after.  He promises fame and power to those who haev the right midset...as in predisposed to do whatever it takes for the right price, at the right time.

This will all come out and be completely expalined and explored in the sequel.  In an actual movie, I think the visuals of X will make it much easier to follow.

so i read the first few pages and well i loved the opening scene, it was really good. my problem is that the dialogue between carlie and danny so far, is alittle cheesy. Like its too much honey, hun and babe and stuff. Just cut down on them, and the way they are talking they don't seem 30 something, they seem like in their early 20's.... I just think you need to work on ur dialouge a little more, and um, yeah.... I won't finish tonight, i'm tired, so i will continue reading tomorrow, and will review again soon enough!
good so far

Hi Caroline, thanks for getting started.  As you can probably see, most have lynched me for Danny and Carlie's lovey dovey dialogue and relationship.  I will be toning down Danny's dialogue, but not Carlie.  Hopefully, it will tone down the dislike for the 2 of them.

I don't agree with you that they sound 20 something, but then again, many do come off as either younger or older, and this couple is definitely living life on the wild side and skewing down in terms of how they come off.

Looking forward to hearing what you think about the 2nd half and finale of the script.

PS - you seem to be a speed reader...very impressive!!!  You've posted a ton of reviews in the last couple weeks.  Keep it up!!!!    

Hiya,


  So, as I’m sure you’ve read some of the comments made on Script Club, I found it difficult to come with a review as well as participate in Script Club without being really repetitive. But I think I need to make it clear that I thoroughly enjoyed the parts after the group split up, along with the kills and their description. I agree that it’s better that you as the writer tried a tool or technique with trying for the “Wolf Creek” like build, rather than it being something that happened via accident. At least we, and you, know that you have handle on it and can make changes.


  My biggest criticism is that you went for realistic dialogue, even with “realistic” dialogue being debatable, under the idea of realism, and the thing that gets me is if it’s because of this attempt at realism that you discarded other necessities like subtext, suspense and conflict in all that time we spent in the bar. Enough with that though.


  I’ve read that Xavier is suppose to be Satan, to be later explained in a sequel. First, let me say that I didn’t  get that Xavier was anything of the sort. Also, Satan? I’d prefer that it be some power demon, I think that Satan has been overused in such subordinate role. I’m also interested in what would be the premise for that sequel. Would Carlie and Danny appear? Would they become protagonist?


Continued....

  One thing I would like to point about Carlie and Danny’s character relationship is “True Romance”, if you haven’t seen it check it out. The leads in that are awkwardly lovey-dovey and surrounded by well it’s a Tarantino flick so go figure. But the difference I feel is that those character’s had cute quirks and relatable desires, Christen Slater is in love with a hooker and wants to free her from her pimp. I think you started with something great in that these two characters, Carlie and Danny wanted to have a baby, but that story dialogue fell to the way side, I think rather than or along with them being lovey-dovey they go into discussions about the baby how many? Names? Where to live? Whether Carlie should be a stay at home mom or go into the work place? All relatable topics that will engage the audience, and also engage the kids at the bar who would give there two cents because naturally Carlie and Danny would take different sides on each topic. This whole debate would bring value to the entire bar scene.


  Now in True Romance there isn’t much to hide, as in your story the fact that Carlie and Danny are killers, I think you may but you don’t have to reveal that they are in the premise, but if you don’t want to, it’ll still work. I think to do that this quarrel between lovers blows up at the bar where Carlie and Danny are angry with one another and this act of killing the kids, which they decide to through with, brings them closer together. A quirky bounding experience, I’d say.


  And Janelle who the couple actual likes the most, you like the most too, and who I and Shelton thought was one of the better characters out of the group. Should be the last kill, but in this scene Carlie is telling Janelle that they’ve picked out a name for the baby, and by story end that’s what they name the baby.


  I feel as though this plot line works because while the lovey-dovey dialogue has distance the audience from the characters, for the worse right now. And the act of killing distance them even more, but the lovers quarrel that all couples go through about baby name? Where to live? And so on would bridge the gap enough between the audience to make the love-dovey dialogue not a liability but a necessity for these characters with a bizarre idea of love. And the killing a necessity while evil, never the less a bonding experience that draws this couple closer.


What do you think about this idea?

Hey Bee, thanks for jumping back in here.  Glad you liked the 2nd half of the script.

I definitely went for realism in here in basically every regard, not just dialogue.  I think this is a problem for most, because just like "real life", alot of things here seem very trivial and without conflict, or the like.  This is what I was going aftr, and for me it worked well, but I see it doesn't for the majority.  As I've commented, I will be cuting down on Danny's lovey dovey banter, but Carlie is going to remain a goofball.

Xavier is either Satan, or one of his minions.  At this point, it doesn't really matter, cause his identity is only hinted at.  I think it would be much more clear with visuals that Xavier isn't just some random bad guy.  If you reread his one scene, you may pick up on a few things that you might have missed on first read.  I will do something to make this a bit more clear, but I do want it to be ambiguous so there can be debate.

As for the sequel (without giving too much away), it will center around Blacky and his deadly deeds in Telluride.  Hot on his tracks will be Sherriff Doug Hawkins, who has a much bigger role this time around.  Xavier and his background will be brought to light, and Danny and Carlie will make a cameo, but not be the center of attention at all.

Funny you bring up "True Romance", because it is easily one of my top 5 favorite movies of all time.  I'm sure I've seen it at least 25 times, if not more.  I think the "banter" is amazingly well done, and basically every single character has their own voice and quirks for sure.  Yeah, it's filled with conflict and "unreal" situations that come to a boil in the finale.  I wanted to go the non-conflict route, and then have things literally boil over, and blow the lid off the pot in the finale.

I definitely hear what you're saying about the baby banter, but I don't think I'm going to go there.  We'll see.  I do like telling Janey that they're going to name their baby after her though.  I think Danny might even tell her while he's tormenting her with the gun, before he pulls the trigger.

Based on feedback, I have a number of ideas that I will be adding.  I'll also try and remove some of the chatter in the bar, but as you said correctly earlier on the Script Club thread, that entire scene is going to play out on screen alot faster than it reads and takes up space on the page.  There're alot of characters introduced and interacting in the bar, and it takes up space on the page, and probably reads a bit slow.  Because alot of the dialogue is basically 1 line back and forth between everyone, it "looks" like alot, but onscreen, I think it would go by quickly and actually be entertaining as well.

Hey Bee, you said you would help with the synopsis, and I'd really appreciate your input about that.  Because I don't want to give anything away that Danny and Carlie aren't what they seem, I find it quite difficult to come up with an interesting logline.

Thanks for all your thoughts and help here Bee, it is very much appreciated.

PS  You're German, right?  Did you get the Edguy/Tobias thing early on?  It was actually meant as a little foreshadowing for those in the know.  If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'll fill you in.

Thanks again!

Having finally read the script, I felt compelled to go back and re-read to ensure that I didn't miss something along the way.  Also, I waited until I had read the script for myself before looking over the posts.  I tend to agree with most of the reviews here, in that the bar scene is just too long.  There has been some talk of realism in the dialogue, etc., but the manner in which these people talk to one another never rang true for me.  The discussions between Carlie and Danny were not engaging enough for me to feel these were likable or very authentic people, which may have indeed been the point here.  The descriptions work just fine, and the kills are done with some zest, but I never felt like I was reading anything that lifted it beyond a genre exercise that spent a little too long with characters that you ultimately don't invest in.  The gore was too heavy to be a character study/psychological thriller and there's too much dialogue and build-up for it to be a fun, seat-of-the-pants shocker.  The schizophrenia of the writing made me feel alientaed as a reader, despite some fine writing and description.  Not my style or interest, but that is always a matter of taste.  I look forward to reading the next script.

Hey Boin, thanks for the read and comments.  Sorry you didn't like it.  I'm actually quite surprised that you don't find the dialogue and interactions between the charaters as real or believable.

What do you mean by, "the schizophrenia of the writing made me feel alientaed as a reader"?  I find it to read extremely easily and be very visual as well.

Again, sorry it didn't work for ya.  I appreciate your feedback.

Jeff,

Told ya I'd read this . Imma gonna be reviewing this as I read, so if I repeat something that someone already said, excuse me, because I haven't read any of the comments yet:

- The beginning is fast and "Whoa!" I noticed you added "uh's" to Tobia's dialogue when he first speaks...If that's him searching for English words, no need. Though I like the "pro...pane?" part.

- Marshall's death scene....wouldn't really happen that way. Though, the radio would electrocute him, except he would be dead probably a second or two after the radio hits the water. How did Cyndi jump out of the water so quickly? Did she have eyes on the back of her head? Because she got out right when the radio hit the water...I dunno. I thought it would be better if they both got electrocuted together, and then Tobias got the shotgun and went after the boy.

- iPod. Not I Pod. Just wanted to point that out.

- I feel as though Rosie and Blackbourn aren't that important. Their dialogue seems kind of fake and when Rosie talks about them being a lovely couple, she actually sounds a bit sarcastic (at least in my head).

- I think you should tell us what Carlie and Danny are wearing before the newscast thing. It makes it seem like they suddenly have this clothing on.

- The dialogue between Carlie and Danny as he is going to the car rental shop doesn't seem real. They act more like teenagers. And 4 bags!? How long are these people staying?? Or are three of them Carlie's?

- Instead of saying "The screen fades to white," just say FADE TO WHITE on the right side of the page.

- Oh dang! In the Horny Toad, we have 7 characters introduced to us! I don't know if I'm able to keep up with them!

- The bar scene ran really long, but for some reason, and despite all the characters I tried staying up with, I liked it. Especially when they were telling the story. Because it sounded real.

- We has a lot of nicknames! Janey, McD, D, CC, Lees...Marty...Nickey, Nick...Red...

- I don't think you need slugs for the Dance Floor and the Golden Tee (whatever that is, ha ha). You can just have a separate line that says DANCE FLOOR and GOLDEN TEE to introduce where inside the bar.

- So, have Danny and Carlie brought their stuff to the hotel or wherever they're staying at yet?

- Oh, so now they're staying the weekend. That's a lot of bags for the weekend!!!! Ha ha ha

- So is Martin gay or what?

- When they're talking about boob jobs and Danny looks at Nicole's boobs, don't you think Carlie might get a bit...defensive or whatever?

- I think that was the second longest bar scene ever. Ha ha. The first being the one in Death Proof.

- The drunk everyone is now starting to get a little annoying (no offense). Maybe you can try and cut out some of it. I don't think you need the tire blow out scene either. If it becomes a problem later, like the killer is chasing them and they need to get in the car, the killer could just slice the tires while he's there or something. I dunno, I'm getting ahead of myself.

- I think everyone in this script loves each other too much

- Whoa, whoa, whoa, wtf? Danny's gone crazy!?!?

- Shouldn't the girls be wondering where the guys are by now? It seems like it's been a while and it shouldn't take too long to get logs.

- Jill's death was funny.

- Danny better have a good reason to be killing these people. Is he possessed by Tobias or some spirit that haunts the house?

- WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!!? This couple is crazy, yo!

- Page 105: Ociffer...Officer. Ha ha were you a little wasted yourself? Just kidding.

- I don't think Jill would be alive. She suffered a pretty serious blow to the head, and is also laying in the snow unconscious. I think she'd freeze to death.

- So Blackbourn remembers Carlie's name? Did he ever know it in the first place?

- Okay, everything makes sense now...sort of. So far, I know why Blackbourn knows Carlie when she stops,  ha ha. What just happened "while the credits were rolling?" Did this guy pay the two to kill people? I'm confused.

Another question: the dialogue...I don't know if it needs to be worked on or not between Danny and Carlie...It seems unrealistic, but then again, it seems like that that's supposed to be a diversion or something...Is it?

This was a crazy script. Long scenes, lots of talking...I like that, but only when I'm watching it happen, not reading it. My eyes hurt now. Ha ha. There were a lot of people in this script, the descriptions were good, some spelling mistakes, yadee-yadee-yah. Danny and Carlie acted funny when they were killing people. It reminded me of the second part of The Signal.

Any way, good job.

Sean

Hey Sean, thanks for the read.  I'll go along line by line with your comments and give ya mine back.

Yes, Tobias is German and his English isn't that great, thus the "uhs".  Are you saying you don't like them?

As for Marshall's "death scene", someone else brought up the same point.  My take on it is this, however....whether or not the average person would be instantly killed by electrocution, you really can't say that's always going to be the case.  As I commented before, when Marshall "leaps out" of the water, it could really just be his body going through one more convulsion.  It's really just a distraction for Cyndi to have a chance, and although you may have to suspend belief here just a bit, I don't feel like it's that big a leap.

Cyndi was already in the process of getting out just as Tobias tossed the boom box into the pool.  That's why she was thrown out of the pool by the shock, as she was already "hoisting" herself up and out.

Thanks for the iPod correction!  No one has caught that one yet.

Blacky's comments were kind of fake, as you now know from reading through the end.  At one time, Rosie had a bigger part, but it's looking like she's going to be completely cut at this point.

Originally, I did have info as to what Danny and Carlie were wearing before they left the plane, but it got cut.  I may have to cut what they're wearing in the airport as well, for continuity sake.  Good point!

There has been alot of criticism on how Danny and Carlie communicate with each other.  They are definitely very young at heart and an extremely goofy couple.  This has turned alot of people off, and it still is quite surprising to me.  Danny's lovey dovey way will be toned down, but Carlie is staying just the way she is.

They're going skiing, and skiing requires alot of luggage.  Yeah, most are Carlie's by the way, as she's a definte shopper and has a different ski outfit for each day.  Actually though, 4 bags isn't that uncommon at all for a ski trip.

Ste said the same thing about my "Fade to whites".  Not sure if I'll abide by the rules here or not, as sometimes I used different "shades" of white, and the like.  Point taken though.

Were you able to keep all the "kids" separated in your mind?  Did they all come off as unique individuals?

The bar scene has been a topic for much criticism again. You are far from the first that thought it was too long.  I am going to cut some of it out, but as a few have correctly commented, it actually woudln't play out as long as it reads.  Because there are so many characters being introduced (as welll as the bar and it's surroundings itself), on paper it requires quite a bit of space...same goes with all the dialogue, which will actually play quicker in a filmed version than it reads and looks on paper.

Yeah, there are a bunch on nicknmaes for sure.  Hope it weasn't too confusing, but as far as I'm concerend, when people actually know each other, they have other names for each other...at least that's the way it is with me and the people I know and have known over the years.

I hear what you're saying about the slugs in the bar.  I'll look into that.  Golden Tee is a video golf game that is very popular in bars.  It's updated every year and the game is a blast and very competitive!

Danny and Carlie's bags never leave their rented Jeep actually.

No, Martin is far from gay.  He wants Janelle in a BIG way.  He's just one of those guys that has trouble hooking up with chicks.

Carlie knows Danny very well and doesn't have a problem with his interest in boobs.  He's actually just making a joke though when he comments on Nicole's big cans, so no one is upset.

I hear ya about the Death Proof comment!!!

It is definitely a very loving group of people for sure, but as for loving themselves, alot of what you're probably referring to shouldn't be taken too seriously...they all joke around quite a bit and are actually quite down to Earth.

The girls know their guys and the wood shed scene wouldn't play out as long as it reads.  They're actually not gone that long at all.

There is definitely reason for Danny and Carlie's actions, but many don't seem to really get it.  Yeah, this couple is crazy!  "What the Hell is going on?"  That's the intended feeling I was looking for.

Actually on page 105, it's not mispelled.  It's supposed to read as "Ociffer".  It's kind of an inside joke actually... a play on a wasted guy slurring the word "officer" to an officer!  They're kind of mocking Officer Jacobs.

As for Jill "coming back to life", you never know what will actually kill someone.  Each individual is different.  Sometimes (in real life) a single bullet will kill a person, other times, a person can survive 6 or more shots.  She was just knocked out and the impact looked more violent than it really was, as her mitten pulled off the leash pretty easily once impact was made.

Blacky is actually friends with Danny and Carlie.  He was in on the whole thing.

As for the "reveal" of Xavier, during the "missing scenes" stuff after the credits start rolling, it's meant to be very ambiguous.  Many have not gotten it at all, but that's actually OK with me.  It's meant to be up for interpetation by each viewer.  Xavier is actually Satan, and he is basically buying souls of various individuals he deems as worthy.  Yes, he is paying Danny and Carlie for their killing spree, but they are also paying with their souls, although they don't know it at the time.

Yeah, the dialogue, as I said earlier, has been criticised pretty heavily, but it was defintely meant to be very sugary sweet, kind of as a diversion, so you'd think they were such a sweet, loving  couple.  It is going to be toned down as I said earlier.

What spelling mistakes are you referring to?  Anything other than iPod and Ociffer?  I hope not, cause I sure haven't found any mistakes, and I've edited this thing at least 100 times.  If there are more, please let me know!

Not sure if you liked this or not, but I hope you enjoyed the read. There are purposely alot of characters, as I wanted a large body count, and I didn't want it to include unknown characters for the most part.  I also purposely made the buildup very long and slow to kind of throw everyone off as to what was going to be taking place.  Most thought it was too long a buildup, and I will be cutting the bar scene down a bit.

Danny and Carlie were suppsed to be kind of funny when they were killing, as they're actually funny, goofy people.  The kills were supposed to be brutal and realistic, but also be a bit whacky in how they talk with each other after they've just commited these horrible acts of violence.

Thanks again for the read, Sean!

I'm not saying you don't like them, I'm just saying they're not really necessary. When an actor who is good at speaking broken English plays a character who speaks broken English, they might include a few "uh's" if they think it's necessary, if the screenwriter tells you, or if you put "..." in between the words (like you did with "pro...pane?")

Instead of having Mike jump out of the water due to "convulsions," maybe you can have Tobias watch him die, and then notices that Cyndi has gotten up and ran away. So then he shoots her.

Hm. Weird. Usually you just need a bag for ski clothes (pants, jackets, and boots), and a bag for normal clothes (clothes to wear around town and clothes to wear under ski clothes). So that's almost four. Well, then, I guess you have Carlie's bathroom bag with EVERYTHING she doesn't need.

Ha ha I think I was able to distinguish which kid was which by the end. One question: why was everyone getting so mad at Nicole? The things she said didn't seem too insulting or whatever.

Okay, they were joking about Martin being gay, but they never really said Just Kidding and, I don't know if he didn't or not, Martin didn't try defending himself.

I think you should have made Jill come back to life, but as a zombie

So if Xavier is "Satan," why would he be kind enough not to kill children? Satan is evil and should have feel remorse for anyone.

I just said spelling mistakes because of iPod and ociffer and because of habit (like, if I see one mistake, then I feel as though it's mentioned as a spelling mistake in the summary of what mistakes there are).

Oh, I liked it, alright. I seem to be getting those questions lately also. Do I like it or not? But I liked this. The build-up was slow for some parts, but I think the bar scene was well done. Yeah, you kind of need to tone it down just a bit, but I liked it. I like lotsa talk as long as it's interesting.

Yeah, like I said, it reminded me of part 2 in The Signal. You should see that if you haven't. It was made in a cool way: 3 parts directed by 3 different directors; the second part is hilarious.

No problem!

Sean

Hello, Dreamscale. I've just read your latest draft of "Fade to White" and, while I have some reservations, I found your screenplay quite intriguing.

First of all, I greatly enjoyed the central premise of the story. Having the seemingly likable and ordinary Danny and Carlie turn out to be a pair of heartless killers was a very clever touch. I especially found Danny's habit of whistling after killing someone quite unsettling.

The dialogue for the most part flowed quite well, with nothing sounding too jarring or out of place. That being said, I do think the dialogue could do with another polish. For example, Rosie's aside to Danny and Carlie about how they would make wonderful parents comes across as rather awkward.

You've probably heard this before, but a great way to improve your dialogue is to simply recite each line out loud. You'd be surprised to find how many phrases and sentences look normal on the page but sound out of place when read aloud.

In addition, saying the lines out loud allows you to determine if the characters you've created would actually speak in that fashion if they really existed. This would be especially useful for improving Danny and Carlie's dialogue, as there were a few times when they seemed to sound like a couple in their early twenties instead of the more polished thirty-somethings they are supposed to be.

You may also want to take a more critical look at some of your scenes to determine if they are really necessary to further the story. For example, the scene between Danny and Carlie in the sports store as well as the phone call between Officer Jacobs and his wife do not further the plot along and could be eliminated entirely.

Furthermore, Bobby and Jill's first radio conversation could be eliminated simply by having Jill tell Bobby she saw the others arrive at the Schaefer house and plans to stop by for a visit, while the second radio conversation could be eliminated entirely.

You may also want to reconsider Johnny's story about the time Jake possibly killed a man. At first, I assumed you were preparing a whodunit setup. With Danny and Carlie being quickly and firmly established as the killers, however, Johnny's story doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose. Furthermore, the scene where the drunk man is killed in the alleyway came across as an attempt to shoehorn another murder into the script. If you keep this scene in, you should tie it into the main story a little better.

One minor quibble I have was how Danny and Carlie sounded like a pair of psychopaths during some of their murders. I found having the pair suddenly turn into wisecrackers less disturbing than if they had continued to be their likable and ordinary selves while brutally murdering their victims.

As much as I enjoyed the central storyline of your screenplay, my biggest complaint must be reserved for the framing device you used. In my humble opinion, the wraparound story concerning Xavier and his secret murder society simply does not work and only serves as a distraction to the main story.

Instead of a surprise twist, the Xavier angle only raised more questions for me. Why exactly is Xavier paying people to become random serial killers? What benefit does he get out of such a risk? Why would two seemingly normal people such as Danny and Carlie become serial killers just to get the money to open Danny's new practice? Why is Xavier's offer more desirable than simply applying for a loan?

I had a similar reaction to the series of flashbacks placed at the end of the screenplay. What is the point of setting up an explosive to burst the Jeep's tire when Danny and Charlie could have created the same distraction by driving into a ditch and then telling the others they lost control after hitting a patch of black ice?

Furthermore, why is Jake's admission he forgot to put batteries in the garage door's remote control treated as a shocking revelation? Why is Carlie retrieving a knife and Danny retrieving both the poker and a pan treated as shocking revelations? In my humble opinion, I would suggest eliminating the wraparound story entirely and focusing on the main story.

I know these criticisms make it sound like I didn't enjoy your screenplay, but I'd like to reiterate I greatly enjoyed the basic premise of the story and, wit a little more polish, I could easily envision watching a film based on your script quite easily.

Hey Abel, thanks so much for the quick read and review.  As always, I'll comment on your comments and I may just be able to clear a few things up for you.  I'll go line by line to keep things easy.

Glad you liked the premise and thought the whistling was unsettling.  I also really like the "Somewhere over the Rainbow" whistling scenes.

I'm actually pretty surprised with your comments on the dialogue.  You mention reciting each line out loud, etc.  That's something that I frequently tell others, when reading "poor dialogue".  I've actually gone so far as to have read throughs with numerous people reading the lines, etc.  As far as I'm concerned, the dialogue rings very  true and "real".  There have been a few that have said that Danny and Carlie sometimes sound like 20 somethings.  While that may indeed be true, I don't think it matters, cause there are so many people (even in their 40's and 50's) that act, or sound like they're in their 20's.  I think the vast majority of instances where they sound younger, are when they're talking together...they've got their own little way of communicating, and I guess it comes off as "younger".

As for scenes that may not need to be in here, I think it comes down to personal taste and opinion.  The Sports Store scene has been drasticly cut down from its original form.  As it sits now, it's no more than 30 seconds long, and if you're saying that the cost to include the scene isn't worth the payoff, you may be correct.  But for 30 seconds of film time, or less than half a page in the script, I don't see it being a problem at all.  It shows another aspect of Danny and Carlie, and how they interact.  But most importantly, it cuts up the bar scene, which is quite long as it is, and without this short cutaway scene, the bar scene would drag way to long.

The phone call scene with Jacobs and his wife plays out at around a minute, or a page of script.  It shows a few things...hopefully, it gives Officer Jacobs a personality, and has you at least a bit interested in his fate.  He's not just some throw away cop that stumbles onto the scene to get killed and be a buffoon...he's a real guy with a wife and a life outside of the events that are playing out.

As for Bobby and Jill's various 2-way radio conversations, again, they're in here for numerous reasons.  I think they've got a unique relationship and come across as interesting characters.  I want my audience to be routing for Jill...and even Bobby.  Without onscreen time, they wouldn't come across as anything other than cardboard cutouts of characters.  I think their back and forth banter is amusing, and I also like the outdoor snow scenes with Jill and the dogs.  It will play out nicely against the scenes before and after them.  And finally, if you take all their conversation scenes in total, we're not talking about more than a few pages, or a few minutes of actual movie.

I personally don't think that every single scene has to advance the story or plot.  100's of "meaningless" scenes from movies come to mind, and although the scene defintely wasn't necessary, it proved to be memorable, different, unique, whacky...something that really added to the movie, even though its inclusion was most likely unwarranted.

McD's story about Jake kiling the Mexican is in here for several reasons.  First, it's funny and sick at the same time.  It's also a shocking revelation about Jake, and sets him up to be a formidable protaganist...or possibly even an atagonist.  At this point in the script, it is far from apparent that Danny and Carlie are anything other than a loving couple getting ready to ski.  By then killing Jake off first, I think it comes across as quite a shock, cause based on this story, you wouldn't think he'd be the first to go, and not put up a better fight.

The scene with the drunk guy getting offed is a new addition, and is meant to serve a few different purposes.  First of all, it puts the threat of a killer at large in Durango, right off the bat.  It breaks up some slow time and keeps the viewer on their feet, so to speak.  Because the killer's identity isn't revealed, it's up the each individual to assume what they want to.  Is Tobias here in Durango?  Could Danny be a killer, or is it too obviously set up for us to think this?  Is someone following Danny and after him?  Lots of different angles here that get the mind thinking of different scenarios.

I didn't try and change Danny and Carlie's personality while they were killing or discussing it afterwards. I think they act just like they do all the time.  They're both rather goofy and enjoy joking around.  Maybe the issue is that it's hard to "like" someone who just brutally killed a bunch of people and seemingly has no remorse.  It's actually one of the central themes here...can you route for or like a cold blooded killer?  It's a tough call, and that's the idea.

OK, finally, the Xavier situation.  This has caused much debate and confusion.  I added alot in this draft to make this more clear, but it sounds like you didn't get it.  There is no "secret murder society" here at all.  I think if you reread Xavier's 1 scene as well as Carlie's conversation with Blacky at the end, you might understand the situation a bit better.  Or, you could just read some of the later reviews and my comments back.  At this point, I'm not going to go through it again, but I'm very surprised you didn't get what was really going on here.

As for this "reveal" leaving you with questions, that's actually good in my book.  It's supposed to be ambiguous and is supposed to leave each individual with the ability to assume what they want and open things up for discussion.

As for the "missing scenes", sorry they didn't work for you.  I personally love them, as they fill in holes or leaps in logic that took place during the film.  The explosive device was simply a way to "stage" an accident.  Maybe you didn't get the description of Highway 550, but if one was to just "drive into a ditch", they would most likely be in grave danger of death, or at least a totalled car.  It's actually a very dangerous road in reality, and was an inspiration for this portion of the story.

Jake not putting batteries in the remote was not meant to be a "shocking revelation", but simply an interesting and even funny aside...his last line in this scene is, "It's not gonna kill us.".  Well, in reality, it had a lot to do with the way things turned out.  If they had driven into the garage, McD, Janey, and Marty also would have parked in the garage when they got home, and Officer Jacobs would have been closer to the front door.  Most importantly though, Martin wouldn't have been killed and most likely would have survived.  You may have also wondered why they would be parking in the long driveway during a huge snowstorm?  This was just a very brief recap of what set it up.

As for the other missing scenes you commented on, it probably seemed very odd when Carlie just pulled out this big butcher knife in the closet with Meg.  Just a recap of her setting herself up for her first kill.  And what about when  Danny just grabbed a fire poker off the kitchen island?  You had to wonder why in the Hell a fire poker would be sitting there, right?  This missing scene tells you how it got there and why.

Thanks again for your time and honest feedback.  It is greatly appreciated Abel.  Hope I was able to fill in some gaps with my comments.

Take care.

Hey Jeff. As you know this is based on the updated version. Just gonna copy and paste my notes first.

Johnny comes across as a bit of a nut due to his story. Suspect?

Bar scene is fine but maybe have Johnny's story about Jake told through flashback. Even just a little glimpse, I think it would add to uncertainty of his character if we actually see him going psycho.

Quite often you give actor notes after the dialogue;

eg. pg 37 'Nicole slurs badly' after she has spoken her dialogue. I think that should be written beforehand or even as a wryly.

Pg 42. Like the wink from Danny to Carlie before the first kill. Maybe have her act a little funny afterwards. Quiet.

Watch its it's – could do with another proofread for that.

Like the foreshadowing with the dogs. 'I'm too little for that'.

People say also a lot in dialogue, and you say it quite a bit in the actions.

Give Danny a weakness? Injury? Some hope when he's killing the first two.

Second murder – True Romance?

Earlier reveal of Bobby's injury? Do like how you wrote the reveal though.

Pg  80. she's instead of she

83.He's instead of he

pg 98. Officer

Listened to the song while reading the credits. Good choice.

I thought it was really good Jeff, as I did with the earlier draft. Have you tried entering this for comps yet? I think it's pretty close to being ready for that. As I said above it could use another proofread for typos.

I would have liked a running theme throughout the script, apart from the snow. You've got a few different ones you could go with. The Devil? Songs that play, imagery -- example, the poster for Godfather II with the upside down cross caused by the lighting.

Another thing you could go for is just making Carlie and Danny extremely messed up. I mean normal people to the outside world, but just messed up sexually. When they both say near the end that what they're saying is scary have them kind of getting off on it. Same as in the scene in the bedroom after Carlie's killed the two girls. Lead it up to a love scene but they stop, realising that they've gotta carry on. Probably isn't something you were going for, but just throwing that idea out there cos they are pretty messed up for agreeing to do this.

The True Romance comment above is because the scene with 'Tony Soprano' (haha can't remember the actor's name) and Alabama came to mind. Where he's kind of admiring her spirit, I thought Danny was doing the same thing. Maybe go for that a bit more. I saw it as a good chance to show more about Danny's character, afterall she'll be dead soon so why not?

I liked how you trimmed the build up.

It was a really good read again mate, so all the above are just suggestions. Good luck with it.

Thanks so much for reading this again, Ste. I totally appreciate it!

I think you're refferring to Jake being the nut, in Johnny's story.  Early drafts had that story "shown" in flashback, but I decided against it, as the scene itself would be a big undertaking, with literally hundreds of extras, 2 new sets, and some more costly EFX for the pipe to head shot.  In the end, I decided that I kinda liked just having the story being told and all of them onscreen, listening, drinking, etc.  Just a couple more minutes of screen time for all of them, so you can get to know them a bit better.

Yeah, the story serves a few things, other than being funny and sick at the same time.  I wanted Jake to come across as a "nice" guy, polite and all, but with a wild side when he drinks.  Possible suspect?  Sure.  Also though, a Protag that can hold his own and should be difficult to take out...being the first to go, and going without a fight, I thought was a shock that no one would see coming.

You're definitely right about my "actor notes"  I think you're also right that they should be given either before or in ( ) under the character's name for the dialogue.  I think I'll clean those up.

Good catch on the "he's" and "she's" on Page 80 and 83.  I changed both of those sentences for this draft, and obvioously forgot to change those words as well.

The "officer" comment on Page 98, is actually correct the way it is, as I pointed out to someone else.  They are mocking him by caling him "Ociffer"...kinda a play on a drunk guy being pulled over by a cop and the first thing out of his mouth is a slurred "ociffer", which immediately seals his fate...ya know what I'm saying?

I've heard from others about the "its" and it's", but I keep missing them.  Funny, cause I've edited this thing literally hundreds of times.  I can't believe I keep missing these simple things.  Even funnier, my Major in school was Technical Editing, and I'm usually pretty good at catching things on first read..how they continue to elude me this long is crazy!

Alot have said the same thing about the "also"s in people's speech.  I have tried to edit a bunch out, but I'm sure there're still a bunch in there.  I'll look for them and see if they sound too repetitive.  There were (or still are) a bunch of "you know"s at the end of people's dialogue. I may have changed too many into "also".  I'll look for that ALSO!

Danny does get injured during the 2nd kill, so I think that's enough for him.

As for a running theme, I like that idea.  You probably noticed that I "conformed" and took out all the actual song placements that I had in there before.  Would love to throw some in there again, but I decided not to come off as "amateurish" by including actual songs, but I do miss the "Highway to Hell" placement, and if that was indeed going to be a recurring theme, there are obviously lots and lots of cool choices that would definitely add to this idea.

Also like your idea about Danny and Carlie doing a few more "messed up" things between each other, after the killing has begun.  But the bottom line is that they really aren't messed up.  As Carlie says in the end to Blacky, "I don't feel evil...".  My take on it is that the "empowerment" that they got from Xavier enables them to go through with these kills...kinda like they're not really themselves while it's happening.  Also, they never actually agreed to give their souls, and at this time, they still don't really know what they've "signed up for".  Obviously they had that inherent trait that allowed them to take human life, but other than that, not only are they good people on the outside, but still on the inside as well.  This will all play out in the sequel.

"True Romance" is one of my favorite movies of all time, and I do see what you're referring to.  I didn't think about that when writing the scene though.  I have considered adding a bit more torment there with Janey, but Danny really does like her, so I don't know.

I entered this into the "Movie Deal Screenplay Contest".  Wouldn't it be wild if someone there actually liked it?  It's obviiously a HUGE longshot, but you just never know.

So Ste, do you think it reads better now that it's been trimmed down?  Do you like the additional kill scene in town before they even meet the kids?  Does it open things up more, in that maybe Danny is going to be a killer?  Or maybe Tobias has reached Durango now and is following Danny from the back alley?

Also, does the end read clearer now as to Xavier?  I totally changed the conversation between Carlie and Blacky so that it hopefully sheds more light onto what's really going on.

Thanks again, mate!  You rock!

BTW  Glad you checked out "Shimmering Highs".  Awesome song and I feel so strongly about it playing over the end credits that I just couldn't get myself to take it out, so I guess I still do have 1 song placement, but being at the very end, hopefuly no one who matters will have a problem with it.

It's difficult to say mate cos it was a while ago that I read the earlier draft. It reads quick and pretty much every scene is moving the story forward. So yeah, I'd say the changes have improved it, as far as a read goes.

The additional kill seemed a little random to be honest. I'd forgotten about it by the end of the script. I know what you were going for but for me, it didn't quite work. I don't see a problem with revealing earlier that Danny is the killer and in a way, it could improve things. If we see Danny kill that guy then acting all normal in the bar, it'll definately add more tension to that whole scene.

I think the Xavier thing went way over my head in the first read and I understood, kind of, this time. So yeah, that part must be more clear.

By the way, about the Janey murder and True Romance link, I wasn't meaning for him to not like her. The scene in True Romance, you get the impression that he does really like Alabama, but killing is just what he does, you know? I was meaning more, using it as a chance to reveal where Danny's heads at.

I was thinking that the part where it's both Danny's and Carlie's feet walking, we should be scared for Carlie. At that point, we know Danny's a killer and don't yet know about Carlie. It'll be a headache to change but I think it's worth a go to have Danny walk in on Carlie before she kills anyone and give the impression that he's going to kill her too. That reveal when she turns around, smiles, and asks how the killing went sounds good in my head. Bit of a WTF moment, ya know?

Oh, just remembered about the Danny weakness/injury thing. I was meaning something that he brings up in passing. Old football injury or something. So when he gets hit in the knee, it adds a bit more impact.

Damn....I'm bummed you didn't like the new kill scene.  I've gone back and forth, and side to side whether or not to reveal Danny at that point (or some point before the infamous "shed scene".  I decided that the impact of the reveal in the shed was too great to do away with.  By not showing my killer in that new scene, I was hoping that each individual would have their own thoughts on it, and some would immediately think it was Danny, others would assume it's Tobias, and still more would be undecided and wait for more info.

Yeah, I hear ya about the True Romance thing with Danny and Janey.  I see where it could definitely work, and I was trying to get a little tormenting going on, but I just don't think I'm going to portray Danny as anymore cruel than he already comes off.

As for the Danny and Carlie's legs walking scenes, I am still hoping that the viewers will again have their own opinion about what it means..some will hopefully fear for Carlie, while others will assume she is in on it.  At that point, there's really nothing that would lead one to believe she's going to turn out to be a heartless killer.

I could throw in a line or 2 with Danny telling everyone about an old ski injury or the like.  Maybe that's why Lisa hits him in the leg?  Or why Janey kicks him in the leg.  I like it for sure, and will see how I can best fit it in.

Thanks again, Ste!

First off, a great opening sequence with the hitman taking out The Patterson family.  It was fast and abrupt, coming out of left field for an opening scene.  It’s a good eye catcher.  

Tobias’s method of killing did seem strange for a professional assassin, using an axe to kill Mrs. Patterson.  I was a bit thrown by that.  It was still an attention getter that made me wanna read further.  

I was interested in who The Pattersons were and what their relationship was to the other characters.  Waiting to see if Jake, Johnny, Megan, Nicole or the others had something to do with that family or were related to that story at all.   Johnny’s tale of Jake banging the Mexican over the head at the bar seemed to be a plot point, maybe suggesting that Danny and Carlie were hired to take him out by a drug lord or relative of the man that was hurt.  But, that turned out to have nothing to do with their plans to kill the group of friends.   Or did it?  Are we supposed to believe that Xavier wanted him killed?  Spanish descent?  

Expository scene at the bar, introducing all the characters and bringing them together with Danny and Carlie was fun for awhile with some real great dialogue, but dragged on.  I was waiting for a follow up scene that pushed our story forward.  It didn’t come for a very long time.  

You can tell these people have known each other awhile and know all their dirty little secrets.  The bar scene was fast paced and written very well with an almost ad lib feel to it.  I like how these characters interrupt one another and don’t sound scripted.  Good job on that.  

Johnny seemed to be the most interesting character at first, with his story about Jake and The Mexican.  He draws you in, but overall never really added much to the story as a whole.  Basically, nothing happened with these people besides a few too many drinks, some arguing, and all of them meeting their fates at the hands of Carlie and Danny.  In a horror film like this, the in between scenes should be just as frightening to push the story forward.  

The pacing was good overall with the deaths coming sporadically throughout the story.   This was handled nicely.  These scenes were fun and really suspenseful.  I really enjoyed the scene where Megan is killed.  Lots of sexual tension between the female characters helped build an uncomfortable suspense.

I’d have to say I was really drawn in by the first 20 or so pages, getting to know all the idiosyncrasies of these kids, picturing the differences between the male and female characters.  This was done very well.  

It’s definitely a guilty pleasure dead teenager flick like Friday the 13th or April Fool’s Day.  There were some great scenes, but too few and far between.  There was never any real story here until the end when Danny and Carlie meet with Xavier.  Even then, I still don’t understand their motives for killing the friends.  I don’t get who Xavier is and why they work for him.  

I would have enjoyed a story where these kids were specifically targeted for something they mistakenly saw or did during their trip.  As the story stands now, there isn’t much of one.  Officer Jacobs seemed to be a shining ray of hope for a real story, finding something in the Jeep, connecting all the dots and discovering who Danny and Carlie are.  But he just happened to stumble onto the scene with his gun drawn.  I hated that.

Great bar scene with colorful dialogue, but the dialogue between Danny and Carlie needs reworked.  The I love you, honey stuff seemed silly and out of place.  As a dark comedy, horror, they should be laugh out loud hilarious or very dark and evil.  They were the weakest link in your story and the most underdeveloped characters.  They are your stars and should be interesting enough that we should want to follow them on their journey.  I would seriously rework their parts throughout the script.  

But, God help me, I did have fun reading this solely for the death scenes.  They were nicely paced with some very menacing payoffs.                      

Eric D.

Thanks for the read and comments Eric.  I really appreciate it.  Glad you seemed to like it for the most part.

I PM'd you earlier with a few comments, so I won't duplicate them here.

One thing I want to say, and I've said it several times before, is that I want this story to be taken for what it is, and that's really nothing more than an exercise in killing. The "big" theme and plot point has obviously been missed again, but other than that, this is meant to be an entertaining ride with numerous shocks, surprises, and twists. That's it.  I also purposely wrote this in a way that doesn't follow standard horror cliches, and plotlines, and I wanted it to come across as very different in that regard.

I don't see this to be anything like Friday the 13th or April Fool's Day.

The killings are random, and hopefully come off that way.  None of the killers have killed before, and the instruments of death are used because they're available at the time.

I'm surprised again that you didn't like Danny and Carlie, or their interaction with each other.  I've heard this numerous times and I just don't get it.  I've toned down Danny's lovey dovey mannerisms, but left Carlie's intact.  For me, they come off as such likeable, cool people, who are definitely in love with each other, totally relate to each other, and know each other extremely well.  Alot of what they say and how they say it, is taken from personal relationships...maybe I'm just whacko, I don't know!  Danny and Carlie had alot more screentime and dialogue in earlier drafts, but I've worked them out, and thought there was still more than enough in there for you to get to know them...and like them.

Anyway, thanks again.

OK first things first, I can't believe I read a script where a majority of the characters are smashed beyond recognition the whole time.  I mean there is some hardcore drinking going on here. lol. Anyway, this post isn't going to be organized because I've been taking notes and thinking up ideas over the past couple of days that I've been reading this new draft...so bare with me.

I'm not a big fan of using continuous.  I think it's distracting, and I would suggest cutting it from your first page.  Now I've noticed it's being used throughout.  I don't think it's needed.  I think your readers would be able to distinguish the fact that the same scene is happening.

When Mrs.  Patterson gets it, I find your description of the scene a little awkward.  "Blood and milk pile around her lifeless body."  When I think of the word "pile," I think of a mountain of things, a stack, etc.  It doesn't sound right.  It DOES sound like a messy murder so maybe something like "blood and milk lay seige to the floor around her" not exactly those words but something along those lines.

Right before your main title sequence (I think you should cut the INSERT TITLE part.  That's giving direction for the director and anyway I think you did it superbly with the screen going to a shrill white....I myself would put the credits there even without you telling me to), you have Tobias kill the little kid.  I don't really know how to feel about this.  The only thing I can chock it up to is one of those openings to a movie where you go "what the fuck am I getting myself into?" and then you sit there and find out for yourself, only if you have the balls to.  BUT if there are more things that you have to cut from this script, one of the first things you should look at is this murder. EDIT- I guess you don't have to cut it since it comes into player later

I would say what kind of jeep Danny and Carlie are driving in the beginning.  When you have your characters driving, always tell us what their vehicle is so we can get an idea of their personality.

Now onto the infamous bar scene....

* I'm not a big fan of characters telling stories or jokes in a script unless a) it has a meaning, b) its funny, or c) the dialogue brings it out.  I don't feel Johnny's dialogue brought out that story and made it interesting.  If anything to improve this, add flashback scenes.

* When the girls come back from dancing and see Danny and Carlie at their tables (p. 24) you should try and milk that scene a little bit more....there hasn't been anything errie or scary going on for the last 13 pages... Danny's eyes could narrow on one of the girl's and he could say "Oh I'm sorry, did we take your tables?" in a certain kind of tone that suggests he might be a little crazy from the very outset.

Some of these deaths are pretty violent.  I think I remember reading somewhere none of these characters have killed before.  I think it would be great to show the murderers being momentarily irked when they come across the first victim or two, because otherwise I think they're already stone cold killers.

Great job with Janelle and Martin.  The scene where they go out to grab a smoke and Martin confesses that he likes her (while she's hooking up with Johnny), and she says things can't work out, but she gives him a kiss anyway and tells him anything can happen...I really liked that.  After that moment, I was really digging Janelle's character and was hoping she would pull through...of course, she didn't.  But o fuckin well haha.  As for having Jill the only one who seems to actually still be alive, I would scratch that and change it to Janelle -- but it is your story... I just feel Jill wasn't that big of a character to grant her the lucky survival.

Question.  When you created this X guy toward your Wild Things-like ending, what did you intend him to be?  I have an idea (its probably off)...but I can't really pinpoint what it is.  It's hard to explain.  One suggestion, though, if you're going to do this credits thing, try and make it shorter than what it is, otherwise it feels like it just keeps on dragging.

Overall, I liked Fade to White.  There are a couple more things you need to straighten out in your new draft but I'm not the kinda guy who sits down looking for all the typos, so you can do all that :p

Keep working on this, though, I'm sure some new ideas will come to you that you could add that will benefit this script.  

Quoted from ericdickson   They were the weakest link in your story and the most underdeveloped characters.  They are your stars and should be interesting enough that we should want to follow them on their journey.  I would seriously rework their parts throughout the script.

I think Danny and Carlie are fine as is...they come across as a Mickey and Mallory type to me in a way...but I think M&M would make short work of Danny & Carlie lol

Thanks for reading and comments, Steve.  It’s much appreciated.

Yeah, a few people have also commented on the amount of drinking before.  Maybe I’m just an alchie, but I don’t find it surprising or gratuitous.  It’s a vacation for all, right before New Year’s, in a ski town, and it’s dumping like never before.  Everyone’s pretty fired up, and drinking is definitely in order.

I see that most writers in here don’t use “Continuous” or “Later” or anything in that regard.  I always feel when I’m reading a script, and it’s omitted, that I have trouble figuring out where we are in terms of time.  My screenwriting software “asks” for something’s inclusion in the scene heading, and I actually like it quite a bit.  I also think that when actually shooting the script, it makes things a lot easier for all involved (are the characters wearing the same clothes?, has anything changed from the prior scene?, is there passage of time in terms of what’s in front or around the characters, etc.).  I’m a stickler for details, and this makes things crystal clear for me.

Funny you mention the use of the word “pile”.  When I originally wrote this, the first person that read it said the same thing (I actually used “pile” twice in the script), and I said that I just liked the word.  We went back and forth about this for days, but I still decided to keep it in.  The actual word should be “pool” or “pools”, but for some crazy reason, I like the visual of “pile”.  Maybe I’ll give in and make the change, cause in reality, you’re definitely right.

Cornetto said the same thing about my “Insert Title”, but again, I like its placement there.  I actually don’t see any credits rolling until the end, but who am I to think I can mandate that sort of stuff?

Same deal with little Joey getting it in the intro.  My first reader hated it, and several have commented on the same lines.  But you are exactly correct in what I was going for with its inclusion.  I wanted everyone to know right up front that no one was safe, nothing sacred, and no punches were going to be pulled.  By not actually “showing” him get blasted with the shotgun, I feel like it’s no big deal, and I really like the tone it sets.  If I have my way, no way is that getting cut!

In early drafts, there was a long, boring, unnecessary scene about the rental car (SUV) that Danny got…and wanted.  It didn’t go anywhere, and just took up space, so out it came.  It is a rental car though, so it’s what they had available in terms of an SUV.  And for the record, it’s a 4 door new model Jeep SUV (most likely a Grand Cherokee).

Others have suggested the use of flashback for Johnny’s story. It was originally planned to be that way.  I took it out because I decided it would be a big, expensive undertaking to shoot, and I actually kind of like the idea of the camera panning around to all the kids as they listen.  A way of getting to know everyone.  It’s a little less than 3 pages long, and being virtually all dialogue (with a few back and forths) it will play out onscreen much less.  Considering there’s 7 characters present, I don’t think it will be too dull, with shots of everyone, etc.

At this point, the viewer shouldn’t suspect Danny and Carlie for any reason, so I don’t want to add anything that may give it away.  I really just want this scene to play out for what it is…drinking, partying, fucking around with each other.  Most think it goes on too long and is wasted time, but I feel it works, and will be quite funny in places.  I think it works in showing who these people are.

I’ve considered this as well in terms of showing early remorse, etc. from Danny and Carlie when they start their killing.  I went against it in the long run, because at the time, they have been “empowered” to kill, and basically aren’t themselves when it goes down.  More on that later…

Glad you liked Janelle and Martin’s outdoor scene…I like it also.  Janelle is definitely one of my favorite characters and I was hoping that the viewer would like her also and route for her.  In terms of having her survive, I decided it was too formulaic, and I wanted to stay away from anything that was “supposed” to happen.  As for Jill surviving, it was a late entrant…I just decided someone has to survive, why not the least likely and necessary?

Back to my biggest problem…Xavier!  Damnit, I don’t understand why no one seems to get this.  This was a major change I made with this draft, and I thought (I still think, actually) that everything should be pretty clear, although still purposely ambiguous.  If you read some prior posts of mine, you’ll see who/what X is, and maybe things will be a little clearer in your mind as to what this all really means.  It’s actually the entire premise of the story, which I wanted to throw in after the fact to get people thinking, and coming to their own conclusions, and again, stray far from the beaten path of structure and the like.

The “missing scenes” are another point of people either liking them, or disliking them.  Yeah, “Wild Things” was definitely my source of inspiration here, and I personally love when movies do this.  If nothing else, it keeps people in their seats while the credits role, and I think it adds so much and fills in so many holes that maybe didn’t (purposely) make sense at first.  There’s about 5 minutes worth after Xavier’s scene.   Most are very short, and should move pretty quickly actually.  There were more originally that I edited out.

Glad you liked it.  I also saw some Mickey and Mallory in Danny and Carlie, and in a way, were my inspiration, but obviously in a toned down way.  Thanks again, and I appreciate your feedback.  

hey dreamscale,
this is one reeaally long script, especially for the horror genre, and i read it all in one sitting and that's a good thing. usually, i'll take breaks from scripts and even know your script was rather lengthy it kept me reading so overall i liked this! But like every script there's things to be critiqued (ps. i havent read anyone elses reviews so bare with me if i'm repetitive):

- the deaths are pretty brutal and quite a bit for an opening scene but it works so far!
one thing that kind of struck me as odd is on page 3. i don't exactly understand one part, but when marshall is being electrocuted you mention he's under water and helpless, i don't exactly understand how he leaps out of the water to grab at Tobias' leg? I've never been electrocuted but i don't think he'd be able to just jump and grab, maybe so it just seemed a bit odd to me! It might be easier to just cut him trying to retaliate.

- Page 4, to end a brutal opening scene gives good introduction to Tobias and his ruthlessness it is quite scary, the ending though when he enters the kids room it isn't really clear if he shot himself or the kid, i guess its assumed that it would be the kid but still i wasn't sure!

- i'm assuming carlie and danny are the main characters, they have good intros, you can tell that their likable characters. the dialog between the two is believable, sometimes corny haha but it works, sometimes they seem really lovey-dovey, which is good but were they not fighting? i had the impression there was some conflict deeper then carlie wanting a baby between them.

- At the horny toad there's a lot of characters being introduced in that first scene, it might make it easier if you maybe gave each couple some dialog between them just so its easier to remember names. but i am getting used to it, they talk distinctly enough to remember each character and as a film it'd work. the dialog between the big group at the bar is well done and pretty realistic but carlie seems a bit passive when i think around all these women she might be alittle more defensive.

- I was just about to say maybe you should add a flaw to danny he's a bit too perfect but wow nevermind i just got to jake's death, i really liked how you've set things up, from here this script is really picking up!

- I wasn't sure if carlie was going to be in on it, it would of been interesting if she wasn't but her scene with megan is well done, i like how your death descriptions pay tribute to the ongoing white and blood red thing you've got going!

- i'm a fan of how carlie and danny have transitioned into such creepy characters, the deaths come pretty fast after the twist but it works nicely. however, through out all the death scenes one thing i think is lacking is a little more suspense, if there was any way you could think of to add a bit, maybe someone seeing a killing and trying to escape might be good!

- The police officer in the house when janelle is pretty intense, my favorite part!

just finished reading now, overall it was a good horror script, pretty creepy and i liked how you ended it, i don't know if i personally like the credits going in and out, mainstream audiences might not wait around, i think it'd be better to glue it all in before the credits but the ending is good and really ties the binds! one thing i really liked about your script is that it took a completely different turn then i suspected, i really thought tobias' set up was to be the killer that would kill carlie and danny and terrorize them through-out their stay... boy was i wrong! there were some parts that were a bit far-fetched but i overlooked that because it worked for the story and it's a horror movie! again, this was a good read that danny and carlie are absolutely nuts, good death scenes as well. i didn't come across any spelling or grammar errors so i think your in the clear, there are always those few that lurk though aha! anyways, you've got a talent in the horror genre, it started off slow but when it picked up it really picked up, the slow start was good to develop the characters well. look forward to your future scripts!

Thanks for the read and comments, Kev.  I totally appreciate the feedback.

You think it’s long now? You should have seen it last year!  I cut out so much and tightened the writing to get it to its current length of 114 pages, which is under 2 hours in terms of screen time, and considering that the missing scenes segment goes on for 7 pages (7 minutes), I don’t feel it’s too long at all.

Glad you got through it in 1 sitting and liked what you read.

Others have also commented on Marshall’s reanimation in the water.  The cord pulled out of the wall socket almost immediately, so in my mind at least, he wasn’t dead yet.  When he jumped out of the water, it could also be taken as a last convulsion or the like.  He didn’t really “grab” Tobias’ leg, but just did enough to give his Cyndi a chance to escape.  I like this because it does give Cyndi some hope, and adds some tension.

Many have commented on little Joey’s demise. Yeah, it’s up to each viewer to determine who got shot, but it was Joey for sure, as you now know.  I wanted to make a statement early on that no one was safe, and nothing was sacred, but I also didn’t want to totally flip people out by “showing” a little kid getting offed…thus the shrill white and blast of the shotgun.

Glad you liked Danny and Carlie…a lot of people have not liked their lovey dovey ways, which I have toned down in this draft.  There is some discussion about Carlie wanting a baby, but it’s not a fight…it’s something they have been “talking” about for years.

Glad you liked the bar scene also.  Many people have lambasted me for its length and meandering, meaningless banter. It’s all just to set the stage though, and I’m glad you liked the banter and thought it was well done.

My intention was for the viewer not to know whether or not Carlie is “in” on it.  I wanted each viewer to have their own opinion about this.  I like the Megan kill also.  Thanks for seeing the color motifs throughout.  Alot of people haven’t gotten this.

As to the lack of suspense, which some have also commented on, here’s my take on it.  It seems that most people think suspense is only achieved when the onscreen characters are feeling suspense, and I don’t agree.  None of the characters have any reason to not trust Danny and Carlie, so they are at ease with them and the kills come rather “easily” because of this.  But, the viewer knows more than the characters do, and I feel that the suspense is definitely there because we know when each character is in trouble, even though they don’t.  It’s a different kind of suspense and tension, and that’s what I wanted to go for.  Actually, I wanted to steer clear of any and all tried and true horror plotlines and conventions.  Hope it worked for you to a degree.

Yeah, my favorite scene is definitely the front Hallway scene where all Hell breaks loose.  It’s the most intense scene for sure because there are so many different ways it could play out.  Hope I caught you off guard a few times in that scene.
Yeah, Tobias was definitely meant to be a red herring in a way, and I’m glad it worked for you in that regard.  In earlier drafts, Danny and Carlie are totally played up to be the nice, loving couple who’d serve as our protags.  I toned this down and got into the action much earlier in this draft, and I think it works much better.  I’m glad you thought they were going to be terrorized, cause that was my intent completely.

Thanks again Kev, and I’m glad you enjoyed it.

Dreamscale

Ok here it is, This is basically gonna be a GENERAL review. I’ll post more later.

Personally I think technical errors are secondary, peripheral, superficial problems in a script but I did record them as I went along & I will post them at the end because as I said...they are not that important.

Though one thing I did notice was your blatant disregard for the "comma" before someone's name e.g  "Hey, that's just about enough [,] Nikki!" anyway I'll put up what I spotted later, lets got on to the story.

This is going to be a little sporadic & all over place (like my feature) so Ill try & capitalise some keywords as I go for reference points. I'm just streaming my thoughts here:

I liked it. I wasn’t for the first 50 pages & this wasn't because of the build up time (from reading mine you can guess I don't have an issue with overlong, indulgent character development or the whole "getting to know" the protag-antag etc)

I just didn't like the characters, everybody seemed so squeaky clean, overly courteous, the couple in particular. CARLIE annoyed the sh?t  outta me there is nothing more cringe worthy then a lovey dovey couple displaying public affection for one another.

Some of their exchanges when on the plane (in particular the child scene) & when they get to the town made me wince. In terms of development I was delighted that 30 pages in nothing of "note" (and I use that phrase lightly) had happened, in a way it gave hope for my over wrought story.

I liked your descriptions on page 12 very clear & concise, you knew exactly what you wanted & who each person was to embody. Personally I don't prioritise these descriptions as I like to think that  he/she’S actions & personality through the course of the piece should convey their character traits but you fleshed them out well.

JANELLE was a very irritating character, we know from her description & thru a combination of Johnny & Martin's frequent gushes about her that she is beautiful but God those she know it & play up to it. I know she is to represent the prick teaser exhibiting her power at being the subject of a alove triangle but its done in such a doe eyed, playfully seductive way that it bugged me. Make her a bit edgier, dirtier, more promiscuity would have been welcome, to me she is all talk.

NICOLE was my favourite of the "Party Of Six" she was down & dirty, had all the best lines. The lesbian subplot added a fantastic dimension to the story, the restrain of Megan compared to the sheer in-your-face honesty of Nicole was paced very well & developed with style & reserve. Culminating with the shower scene, nicely done.

Johnny was your typical jock, I had no problem with him, he played is part. As did the lovestruck Martin who made me think of Marcus from my story so I could empathise with him. I thought he was going to be the hero, since he was passed out in the car as the carnage was going on inside, kudos for not going down that road.

So at the 40 PAGE mark my interest is just about maintained. As I mentioned, I like the build up, I like your desciptive/prose (The snowflake effect being a highlight, you reintroduce it at the right times & it adds a nice artistic flourish to the piece)  

The downside is the characters (all bar Nicole) I'm just not feeling them. I think this stems for your dialogue being a number of things, such as too nice, fluffy, sanitised, gleaned etc. Any confrontation/conflict is handled in an all too friendly manner there is nothing with any bit of bite or a sting in the tail. We don't like to resort to explicit language but a few "fu?ks" here & there wouldn't go astray. If just to instill a passionate streak into your characters more then anything (This of course does not apply to Nicole)

I'm sure like most readers I'm expecting the steak fork toting kraut to begin his terrorising as soon as they get to the house as it seems this is how you are setting things up.

PAGE 51 - This is where everything gets elevated into something completely different. The story (save for the earlier spurts of violence at the start & the drunkard down the alleyway) morphs into an unrecognizable beast!. And may I say for the BETTER. I mean wow!!! what a twist I personally never saw this coming & all that has gone on before is seen in a whole new light, fantastic.

You see what I'm posting here is what I felt as I read but now I have some revisions to make on my character summations.

The overtly happy relations between the couple is only fully realised now & I see why you done it like that (to throw the reader off & hopefully somewhere down the line, the viewer)
When DANNY's expression takes a turn in the shed I was on the edge of my seat. I could see it coming now  but still wasn't believing it until he takes the first swing, and that my friend is credit to your writing that you have convinced us so much that these are good, all American, wholesome couple. I couldn't believe it,

My next question was: Is Carlie in on it too, or is Danny inexplicably going on a killing spree on his own.

It takes 24 pages for it to be confirmed, brilliant. And I was oh so glad she was.  The time you took to reveal this was measured to perfection well done. Finally, I'm startin' to dig these characters.

From now on it turns into a bit of a gore fest with a lot of bludgeoning, wanton murdering which traditionally isn't my thing but the action is meted out  well. Each person meets their fate, in a daresay controlled fashion, only one or twice does a mix of incompetence & a turn of events hinder their progress.

The sequencing of the story from here is busier & you handle it expertly. The fact that I read this in one go is testament to you, I didn't feel it drag. The husband & wife across the road was a funny quirk their walkie talkie correspondence made me laugh though her unfortunate demise came across a little far-fetched which I'll mention in my next post.

The reason for Carlie & Danny taking this course of action & the Xavier character though enigmatic in a sort of upper class Tyler Durden way didn't really do it for me. I just didn't buy it. This was all wrapped up too neatly with no allowance for consequence, possible witnesses, funding, how you would even advertise this sort of "service". I guess a certain degree of "Suspension of belief" needs to be exercised here especially given the things we have just read.

The credits coming in and out is questionable & really a matter a taste personally I didn't mind it.

Overall I did really like this, the twist really got me & I loved it for that. I will post tech errors & more specific likes & dislikes I had with turns of phrase, plot points, quotes & various events in general throughout the script in the next few days so again I ask for your patience.

Good job, stick at it, you're definitely on to something here.

P.s Should Mr Haneke, take a bow here?

Hey Col, thanks so much for the read and very well written and thought out comments.  As I said in a few PM’s to you, we can keep this discussion going, and hopefully flesh out a few problem areas in both our scripts.

I’ll comment along with your thoughts, idea by idea, to keep things easy to understand.

Looking forward to your “technical error” post, as typos and mistakes of any kind are a big issue for me, and unacceptable! I am a trained editor by schooling, and have tried so hard to have this be mistake free…things keep popping up though, so an extra set of eyes is always a good thing.

Not sure I’m with you on the “comma” before a person’s name thing…at least in the example you gave here.  I am a real stickler about the comma and find myself always correcting lines with incorrect or omitted commas when reading others scripts.  Funny thing about the comma though, is that there are numerous “correct” ways to use it that many don’t seem to see or agree with.  Lots of examples can go numerous ways involving that old comma.  I don’t see the need of inserting it where you mentioned in the example given.  We can go over this in more detail later, and I’d like to see exactly where you’re coming from in suggesting it.

I’m not surprised that you weren’t loving things in the first 50 pages, as I purposely went for a long, slow buildup that meandered along, with no clear direction, but I am surprised that you didn’t really like the characters, and found them to be squeaky clean, cause that sure wasn’t what I was going for.  That’s actually a big reason for McD’s story in the Horny Toad…to show that Jake was far from the “nice” person he portrayed.

Danny and Carlie are indeed a lovey dovey couple, but they’re cool and funny also.  Many have said the same thing about not liking them, which continues to surprise me.  I honestly believe that with visuals, they would come off much better, but who knows?

I’m shocked you didn’t like Janelle – she’s my favorite (other than Danny and Carlie, of course!).  Many have also said they thought she was the best character.  In my mind (and I do know her quite well!), she’s nothing of a prick tease at all.  Although I didn’t go into any real back stories, she’s there by herself because that’s how she usually is, although she could be with pretty much anyone.  She’s cool people, easy going, doesn’t look down on anyone, and is pretty much liked by all around her.  She’s close with Martin, but they’ve never gotten it on, although Martin would sure love to.  In their scene outside, when they’re smoking, I think she comes across exactly like she is…cool, nice, and “open” to anything.  When she sees that Martin is upset, she really cares about it and wants to make sure things are still “cool” with them.  If Martin wasn’t there, she’d probably hook up with McD, but she’s no floozy, so she’d most likely take it slow.  When she mentioned the Ménage with Martin and McD, she was totally kidding around…that’s the way she is.  Would she actually partake, if it came to that?  In another situation, she would, but not around friends, and most likely not with a good friend like Martin.

Nicole is really the only outsider of the group.  No one except Megan even knows her.  She is definitely “different” from the others in both personality and upbringing – she’s a lower class, so to speak and has never had the opportunities the others all did…and still do (Jake, Lisa, and McD all come from money).  She’s not a bad person, but when she drinks (or does shots of Jagie), her other side comes out and she’s not afraid to show it.  She is definitely a “tell it like it is” person, and I like that about her as well.

I was hoping that you’d be routing for Janelle and Martin, and thought you’d think McD would at least put up quite a fight...same thing with Jake, who already killed a guy.  That’s why Jake actually went first, as I wanted it to be a complete surprise.  The 2 toughest guys go down the easiest, and cute, little Janelle puts up the best fight, but to no avail.  Like everything else, I wanted nothing to be the way it usually is.

Glad you noticed and appreciated the snowflake transitions.  I actually love these and think they work well in transitioning scenes.  Obviously, snow is a major theme here.

I think up until the wood shed scene, I pretty much wanted the reader (or viewer) to not have a clue of who the antags or protags really were, and I definitely didn’t want to point anyone out by their behavior.  I think if you reread up to page 50 or so, you’d see that certain characters do swear quite a bit, while others don’t use profanity.  Some of my early readers were appalled by the language, but I don’t think they get out much!

Yes, I was indeed intending to make people think that Tobias would be popping up any second to start his terror again at the Schaefer house.

The intent of the script was exactly like you said.  The first ½ or so played out very slow and easy going, and then BAM, everything changes completely and things get crazy in a way no one hopefully saw coming.

Glad the twist worked for you, and thanks for the compliments!  That is exactly what I was after.  Same thing with Carlie – I was hoping that viewers would be asking themselves whether or not she was in on it.  I wanted there to be some tension when Danny comes back inside and tells Lisa that Jake wants to see her in the shed. Would Carlie be next then, or is she involved?

Cool!  Again, this is exactly what I was going for here…I wanted people to actually start liking Danny and Carlie, even though they were brutally taking out innocent people.  All of a sudden, the most likely protags have become the possibly likeable antgags.  Who should I be cheering for now?  The killers or the victims?   For me, it was a tough choice, and I wanted the audience to have some moral difficulty in deciding themselves.

Yeah, at this point, violence is the name of the game, and I wanted to go for a high gore factor but still keep things in the believable realm.  Some have not appreciated the “controlled fashion” of the kills, but D & C set themselves up well and because of this, have relative ease in their killings…until Officer Jacobs arrives.  At this point, all Hell breaks loose and hopefully you had no clue how it was going to play out.

Glad you liked Bobby and Jilly – I like them too, and modeled them after a couple I know, with their funny bickering ways.  Also wanted them to be potential saviors or victims.  Jill’s demise is actually one of the first scenes I laid out in my head and is still a favorite of mine.  I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

The Xavier thing will have to be discussed later, as I mentioned in my PM.  It is a MAJOR plot point that no one seems to get, and it’s driving me insane!  Obviously, something is missing cause no one is getting it.

Wasn’t sure who “Mr. Heneke” was, so I looked him up on IMDB.  Someone else mentioned “Funny Games”, but I have still not seen it.  I have heard of it though.

Thanks again for the nice words and glad you enjoyed it for the most part.  Look forward to your next post.

Hi.

I'm new on here and this is going to be the first script that I've read on this site.

Dreamscale, I know you've already had many comments on this script so I'll keep mine brief.

Now, I'm only up to page 50, so there's not terribly much I can say at this point anyway.  But the first thing, I'd say is, the length.  It's a little long.  And from what I've read so far, a little too uneventful.

However, I get the distinct impression that you may have been heavily inspired by Tarantino's 'Death Proof'.  Is this correct?  Nothing wrong with that.  I liked 'Death Proof'.  And if that is the case, it certainly makes more sense in the way you've written it.  What with the slow pacing and dialogue and such.

If you know anything about Tarantino, you'll know that he was heavily inspired by the work of Howard Hawks.  His film 'Rio Bravo' in particular, which, is loved so much because it is so talky.

Anyway, my only advise at this stage, that is if you're still taking advise (you're probably already done with this script anyway), but my advise would be to just try and improve the character introductions.  The guys in the bar need to be made a little clearer.

Other than that, good job.

I'll get back with my final thoughts when I've finished it.

Thanks for the read and comments, Silverwolf.  Page 50 is a bad place to stop, as you're about to find out.

No, I actually wasn't inspired by Death Proof, although I did enjoy it.  I was definitely going for a alow build and a off beat structure.  It is chatty for sure, but again, this was all for a reason, which I think you're about to find out.

Hope you enjoy the rest.

Yeah, page 50 was a bad place to stop!!

SPOILERS for anyone who's not read the script!

Okay, I've just finished the scene with Danny and Jake.  What the hell just happened??  That came out of nowhere!!  Sure was a surprise.

Now, obviously there's not much more I can comment on.  I'm still trying to figure out what kind of a film this is.  Am I right in saying there's somekind of supernatural element about it?  No don't tell me!

It just came off that Danny was suddenly possed or something.  I thought Jake was gonna turn around and kill Danny!  Not the other way around!  I'm sure all will become clear by the end.

Anyway, I like the use of the snowflakes taking us from one scene to another.  Good way of subtly directing your film.  I can invision it quite clearly.

Oh yes.  One thing I would say though.  Is the intro of Danny and Carlie at the beginning.  I get that they're beautiful.  But you don't have to rub it in!!  Ha ha.  The way I might do it would be something like this:  DANNY and CARLIE, an 'attractive' couple.  And have done with it!

Also, their dialogue seems way too forced.  But from what I've been reading, there might be some stylistic reasoning behind that.  If not, I'd say cut the luvy duvy stuff down.  Alot!  I have a couple kinda like them in a script I'm writing.  I think physical interactions say alot more about how much in love they are than dialogue.  They don't have to keep verbally reminding us!

Anyway, I'll keep reading.

You're reading an earlier version.  This has been rewritten, and is just about ready for a final rewrite.  I've been E-Mailing the current version to those that are interested.

You awnt me to E-Mail the current draft to you?  You could pretty much just start up where you are.  Let me know.

Cool.  Yeah, that'd be great!

Hey.

I just got the lastest version.  Thanks.

SPOILERS

I've just finished reading the earlier one.  I'll say this.  I GET it!  At least I think I do.  I think I get the playful tone you're going for.  That, to me, comes across really well.  And yes, now that I've read it, Danny and Carlie's luvy duny-nes is completely justified because their fucking nuts!  Imean, you'd have to be, right?  To want to do something like that.  There like a pair of thrill seekers on a quest for the ultimate hight.

It's very modern storytelling.  Very contemporary.  Conceptually, it's similar to 'Hostel'.  But the tone, it's a little like this new film I watched, 'Funny Games'.  You seen that?  It has that same playfulness, juxtaposed with extreme violence.  And the violence in yours, certainly was extreme!  So much so, that I found it difficult to imagine how it could be done.  You need a top effects guy to take that on.

Now, on a creative level, from writer to writer, I'd say, be careful with just HOW explicit you make you violence.  I know that's kind of the point of the film.  I don't know how best to articulate myself, but I personally wouldn't make it so explicit.  And also, I tend to think that it shows you have greater flare if you can achieve the same reaction from your audience without showing as much on-screen violence.  You get what I'm saying?

Anyway.  Overall.  I really liked it.  At first I was really put off with the extended Bar scene.  But since you said you've trimed it, I'm sure it will now work better.  And you said you threw in another scene somewhere.  That's good too.  Because, for the length it was, it was a little uneventful.

Sorry, my girlfriend's nagging me.  We're supposed to be sitting down to watch a film, so I gotta rush this.

Just trying to think quick of stuff to say about that might help you.

Oh, one thing I can think of.  The music stuff.  When you have a specific song playing by a certain group.  I thought that was a little distracting.  I get that your trying to set you scenes to certain songs and in turn gain a certain mood for the scene.  But I'd say, why not just say what TYPE of song is playing.  I don't know.  Maybe something to think about.

What else?  Oh, I liked the way the end credits worked.  Totally in keeping with the tone of the film.  Maybe work on them a little more.  Give us more on how they tie in to that specific scene that they're supposed to tie in to, because those little scenes would be really fun to watch over your end credits.

Anyway, that's all I got time for.  I'd like to ask though, I'd like to email you a portion of one of my screenplays.  Would be interested to read it?

Hey thanks for the comments.  I wish you could have read the new version though, as I'll be doing a final rewrite this week most likely.

The songs are gone now and the ending has been revamped and should be a bit more clear.

Sounds like you didn't really "get it" though, like most haven't.  If you read back through some previous posts and my responses, you'd see that Xavier is actually Satan and the reason why Danny and Carlie did what they did.  It's purposely ambiguous, but it appears to be too ambiguous, as no one is understanding X's role or character.  In your earlier post, you mentioned that you thought maybe there was a supernatural element to the story, and that Danny seemed to be possessed when he killed Jake.  Actually, you were on to something there.

In its original conception, this was a take on Hostel, but I changed that with subsequent rewrites.  A few have mentioned Funny Games, and I am familiar with that movie, but haven't seem either version.

Sure, I'd be more than happy to read what you've got.  I'll give you very detailed commentary.  It would be great if you could possibly read the new version and see what you think while it's still fresh in your mind.  Any and all thoughts are very appreciated, especially since I'm gearing up for my final rewrite.

Thanks again.

Dreamscale

(Part 1)

Ok, man this is just gonna be me enumerating some tech/formatting/typos errors etc I found along the way. I'm sure some are in correct & I probably missed many but this is what I got.

I'll include some reactions/thoughts along the way.

The Title: I like it, though something more abstract could be considered as there is nothing worse than an over explanatory title. "Fade to White" to me describes the closing shot of a happy, feel good, life affirming movie which this is most certainly not, thus its misleading (which is good) & it makes all the more sense with the setting & renegade snowflake sequences.

The Logline: Just seems lazy. I'm sure you could come up with something a little more intriguing then "The white of the falling snow won’t be the only color they’ll see."

"A single snowflake falls through the darkening sky. Below,
miles and miles of runs crisscross the mountain in ribbons
of white."

Good intro - tight although poetic descriptions (which I must say are very solid throughout) of what is on screen:

Also the immediate confrontation & resulting decimation reels us in straight away. Sets the tone for the rest of the script as well as gives the reader/viewer  the impression that Tobias will be the main antagonist.

The "comma before name" which I thought was a given even if it a nickname or pet name e.g honey , baby etc but you have said that this is not the case It can be either way. So I'll list what I saw & you can see whether they are valid or not, you know best.

Pg 2 - Buns(,)Lloyd -- "ax" or axe is correct ( I always thought it was "axe") -- Do you always capitalise sounds e.g "THUD" which pops up an awful lot. Or is it the standard?

Pg3 - "Rights himself" sounds a little odd. "Composes" or "regains" will read better.

Marshall seems to recover very quick from the shock considering a complete stranger has just invaded their domain & tried to electrocute them, he is out of the water pulling Tobias's leg in seconds!

Are Cyndi & Marshall bro & sis or a couple or what?? --

The way you described events with him shooting Cyndi, the shotgun range seems unreasonably long.

Pg 5 "ALL" is capitalised. Why? I was under the impression capitalising dialogue is out.

"...." One dot too many -- In general I think you have too many elipses in the prose, try to use them in moderation (I use them frequently in dialogue as I think they are essential for phrasing, not as important in the descriptive. You're better off using "--" though this is of course a matter of taste)

You never mention that the child is asleep the first time around we only find out when he wakes up after the turbulence

pg 6 - The whole part here with the child is my least favourite in the piece & way too saccharine for my liking --
The line:

ROSIE (CONT'D)
I know it's none of my business, but
I think you'd make wonderful parents.
I can just tell.

made me cringe like a mother fu?ker, leave it out, brother.

I realise later that this "squeaky clean" couple is portrayed intentionally to counterbalance what happens later but it can be done in a more subtle, less Nancy Meyers way if you know what I mean. It just seems way too overkill (As I said in the last post so I won't dwell)

Pg 7 - Just on a personal level I hate the word "Klutz" & later when you used "Klutzo" it killed me...but that my problem.

Pg -8 Again, the over affection:

DANNY
I love you Honey. God, I love you.

"The screen fades to white." -- This happens a number of times( a nice effect). But FADE TO WHITE written in capitals like so, will suffice.

Pg 9 - "cool is" instead of "cool's" - I know, nit picking.

Pg 10 - The "Cool" conversation -- waay too cute, annoying.

Pg 11 - A clever device you used here to perpetuate this apparent impending menace of Tobias but it "just being a cat in the dustbin" is such a shameless cliche. Obviously keep the scene in, it works brilliantly, just have something, ANYTHING! other then what you've chosen to stop the drunk in his tracks.

Danny singing to the song in the bar -- Characters singing along to something is dodgy territory & can come off looking cheesy, be careful with it.

Pg 12 - As I have said, I dig the snowflake effect, but you just raised your budget up by half a million to generate these scenes, hehe.

At this point I hate Charlie, hate her, hate her, hate her!! Danny only slightly less.

When describing the characters you have "actually" featured in two descriptions for Johnny & Janelle, was this intentional? Its sounds repetitive.

Pg 13 - Should "OK" always be in caps? ditto with "HELL"?

Pg 14 - "Jake boy" I liked that phrase. "Big Boy Kusic" funny character. Funny that you call them "Jagies" we just call them "Jagers" over here.

It’s an amusing anecdote, but are we to believe the Kusic didn't realise the chick had puke all over until he got to the house, that’s booze for ya I suppose. It just seemed a tad far fetched.

Pg 14 -19 - Hurrah! a four minute conversation, I don't feel so bad now for "Charm", ha.

A lot of embarrassed looks at this juncture (and we find out why later) But a variation on the "embarrassed" remark wouldn't go astray.

Pg 21 - Again a personal thing for me but High fives are a no no. I think when you get to a certain age i.e 12, 13 high fives are just lame. (excluding sport)

Pg 22 -  Good passage with the three guys, Martin especially. Wow, that story turned real hairy, didn't it. I mean murder!!

Around this time due to no fault of the script but I stopped noting "EVERY" mistake as it would be just too time consuming, sorry.

Pg 24 - Nicole grabs Megan, pretends to bite her neck. -- This would look a bit cheesy.

Pg 25 – “There you go(,)hun” --  Comma left out.

Pg 27 - "Col Mustard" -- great line.

LISA
There they are. What's up guys?

Should that be LISA (O.S) as we are on the guys going back the table, when she calls them.

Pg 28 - "Carlie smiles up as well." -- Funny way of describing that.

Pg 29 - 5 cases of no comma in front of names: Johnny, Janey, Danny, Honey & Dan.

NICOLE
That's right (D)octor. --  Should not be in caps.

As I said characters, dialogue etc aside I have no problem with the length you took here. It didn't feel long reading it so I'm guessing on screen it would do enough to keep the audience's interest piqued. (Again this is all subjective.)

Pg 33 - A gross case of drink driving here. I don't know about your native state Arizona or even Colorado but they have clamped down on it big time over here. It doesn't seem to be an issue to these people however as it’s not even remarked on.

Alcohol + vehicle + THICK SNOW = A complete, utter & inevitable fu?king disaster.

"emergency breast job on you ()Lees." -- No comma.

I love Nicole at this point & in retrospect it would have been an interesting undertone if she treated the couple a bit warily from the getgo. That she just felt something didn't sit right or whatever. They're overtly cutesy relationship should conflict with Nicole's cynical, sharp tongued attitude effectively. Create some tension, if only slight.

You might this could be a giveaway but believe me, bro, when I say, that nobody will see that twist coming.

Pg 36 - DANNY
Hold on() Baby! -- No comma

Pg43 – Snowflake effect -- Niiice!

Janelle is an arrogant, self absorbed bit?h, she is grating me.

Pg 44 - JILL
Jesus Bobby! Any-fucking-thing else? -- Read it aloud a few times, it doesn't sound right.

Pg 47 - "That’s just great" -- Ditto above, just seems odd, doesn't fit in to the flow of conversation.

Dreamscale

(Part II)

Pg 51 -- WHAT A FU?KING TWIST!!! NEVER EVER EVER saw it coming, kudos.

When Jake got struck he should have been howling in pain, very little reaction from him.

Whistling the tune is a nice if overused eerie mechanism. Glad you included it though.

Definitely the best part of the script, the strongest & the fulcrum of the whole piece. Well done again on the structuring & patience, let’s hope the viewer is willing to go on the ride with you.

Pg 52 - Good scene with Janelle & Martin I'm already warming to these characters a bit more. Its not too sentimental or mushy, just enough emotion & unspoken urges (if unrequited) bubbling under the surface. Well scripted.

Pg 54 -- Very good sexually charged exchange,  loving Nicole.

Pg 56 - Jill seems to have been frozen for the past few pages, (in other words, a few minutes screen time). She has made no progress in any way.

Johnny is really over doing the compliments for Janelle. He’s coming across as a sleaze which is not intended, right?

All the time thinking is Carlie in on it, an intriguing subtext that really strengthens the story & your attitude/feelings whilst you read, nice job.

Pg 61 -- Jill finally gets to the friggin' house. Takes far too long, man. Not in terms of pacing but how big is this estate of houses? The Schaefers house was within her sights nearly 10 pages ago so I'm thinkin' it can't be huge.

Would the dogs have dragged her like that. If so she shouldn't be takin' em for walks on her own. I found her death, though entertaining, very unrealistic. It wouldn't happen in real life (but to coin a phrase "stranger things have happened,")

The Lisa & Danny is singly handedly my favorite scene.  Great battle between the two (there was always gonna be one winner), sorta cat & mouse scenario, well written.

Pg 63 - "HELL" is caps gain...why? "Asshole" strikes me as much too soft a word given the situation.

Pg 65 - She looks terrible -- Odd way to put it.

"THUD" & " Bloody mess" have become all too ubiquitous by this point. Change of phrase is badly needed.

Loving Danny, complete reversal. He rules the final third of the script.

Pg 70 - Good tension

Pg 71 - Not the most obsure but i liked the "The Shining" reference.

Pg 74 - Carlie is becoming a lot more interesting. The lesbian factor has been cranked up. (I'm not one that goes for a film cos of gratuitous "tits" "ass" "bush" whatever) but as I said in my last post the underlying erotica it provides adds a very potent spice to the story.

Pg 75 - It culminates here nicely, along with the delightful revelation that the goody two shoes, photo over the mantlepiece, presumably straight A swot is a crazy psycho killer bia?ch, excellent.

My notes just said "thank you thank you thank you" at this point because of this. Makes the sugary, over the top affection from earlier between the two, worth enduring.

Pg 78 - "I think Megan's dead." -- Should be “Megan is dead” The apostrophe denotes ownership. I'm pretty sure you can't own a dead, hehe.

Pg 81, 82 - An almost surreal conversation between Danny & Carlie,  very good.

Pg 83 - "Then & Than in the same sentence, weird.

Pg 84 - Why does Johnny say "your friend Lisa" does he not know her thru Jake?

Pg 87 - Johnny's death -- sickening "flattened and broken face." – gruesome! all in a good way I may add.

Pg 88 - They are incompetent at the best of times, which of course is understandable given they are not trained killers.

Pg 90 - This showcases probably your best quality as a writer from what I've read of yours. The action scenes are top notch throughout, flow brilliantly despite the odd repetition.

Pg 96 - I know I touched on this already. I was surprised, I thought Martin was gonna be the hero, thankfully not.

"It's an all out fight though." Funny phrasing.

"He holds Officer Jacobs(') arms behind their heads." The comma is at the wrong side of the s

Pg 97 – There’s that "Klutzo" word again, Grrr!

Pg 98 You spelt "Ociffer" instead of Officer.

Pg 100 - "aiming at different parts of her body." I liked that, toying with her. Danny's dialogue is strong here too.

Pg 101 - The no bullets twist...well it just isn't a twist anymore, is it?

Pg 101 –
CARLIE
No Janey, fuck you! -- A little unimaginative from her, have her say something completely random, off the wall, some real sick sh?t. The game is more or less up now, go wild.

Dirty Harry reference is too obvious, didn't work for me.

Pg 103,104 - Would Jill have survived that long in them conditions?

SHERIFF HAWKINS
I cannot believe this Goddamned mess.
M'God...never seen anything like it
in m'Goddamned life...well...least
not in m'town.

What accent is that, with the "m" at the start of the words. Plus the extensive use of "Goddamn" I feel like I'm reading Catcher In The Rye again.

..."I rightly don't know." again I'm presuming it’s a colloquialism, cos it sounds odd.

Pg 110 - "His teeth look terrible." Sounds awkward. Personally I think the word "terrible" should be used in moderation

Pg 111 - "Tire" -- Should be tyre.

Pg 113 - Jake saying " It’s not going to kill us" is a little too blatant, overly significant looking at it now in hindsight. Then again it would have been worse if it had being said during the course of the script.

Pg 115 - Last line -- Not so sure about it. I'm talking about the "totally" element. Even if it does accentuate their madness. (But, like various parts of the story here & there, it feels a little OTT)

Xavier claps his hands together...his fingers long,
pointed...strange.

Trying to suss out who or what X is. In relation to the above description he sounds like Lucifer or even Count Dracula.

I mean if we are to take him as a living & breathing human being like you or me, you would have to wonder about all the practicalities (that I mentioned in the last post so I won't repeat) that would face us mere mortals if we were to spearhead this sort of "operation" he has going on.

This is what’s leading me to believe that he is someone inside these people, an alter ego, an evil conscience , a spirit possessing Tobias, Carley, Danny and countless others we imagine.

Xavier smiles...cold and evil, an odd flickering shimmer in
his dark brown eyes.

This further backs up the "extra terrestrial/not of this world" claim...

I remember you mentioning the ski scene with the pilot as key. But I'll admit his appearance is inexplicable to me (And we find out later that he gives them the detonator but  I’m sorry I don't get the link.) Is he just another guy that's part of Xavier "disciples" for want of a better word or does he have a greater significance


That’s about it I'm sure I missed lots & you will have a few things to say about the parts I highlighted similar to the issues I have with your "charm" review (If I ever get back to it in the near future)


In conclusion, you know I like this, you've got a good script although there are some things I would do differently but you have your vision & I wish you the best of luck with it. This has a lot going for it.

I see that the new draft has an extra ten pages. What were the important alterations you made?

Regards

Col.

Thanks bud!  Awesome insight and well written comments and notes.  I'll take a look and get back with ya ASAP.  Totally appreciate all this!

Review - PART 1

Hey Jeff,

I just finished Fade To White and I'll try to get as much down here while it's still fresh in my head. Like all reviews, mine is subjective. There are things I like that you probably don't and vice-versa, so take what you can from this review.

!!!SPOILERS!!!

This felt like it was inspired by different movies. I saw some 'Death Proof' in there (the bar scene), 'Kalifornia' (the supposedly psychopathic serial killing couple) and 'Saw' (the "reveal" in the end). And I didn't think it worked as a whole. You start off really well, though, with the killings in Steamboat Springs. That set the tone for the script (or so I thought) and it got me interested right away. Okay, I wasn't crazy about the electrocution scene in the swimming pool - a little too Hollywood like for my taste. Also, without getting too technical, throwing the boom box in the water doesn't guarantee that Marshall gets toasted. It actually depends on his location in the water and where the nearest grounded part of the pool is (which would probably be the drain). If positioned just right the current would actually go for the drain and not him, but in Hollywood terms, it would definitely go for him (unless the place has a GFCI installed - which they should if the pool's grounded) but that's an entirely different can of worms.

Enter Danny and Carlie (a name I had tough time getting used to for some reason). In 20/20 hindsight it makes sense that you made them that cutesy-wutsey. You either did it to show that they're somewhat retarded/dim-witted (easy to coerce) or to lead the reader astray - setting up the surprise for when they go on their killing spree. Or maybe they just really really love each other. What ever the case, I think you overdid it. Show it when it makes an impact on the story or makes a statement, but not in every scene they're in. It got to the point where it, to me, felt toe-cringingly fake. The same went for everyone really when they team up with the group of youngsters at the Horny Toad (I like that name btw.), they're all just too quick and eager in my opinion to keep telling each other how great they thought each other were. It just didn't feel natural to me. I'm all for character development, it is very important for a script but at some point you have to trust your reader that they get it and move on with the story. Having said that, I do think Danny and Carlie worked pretty well as characters.

The youngsters (Lisa, Jake, Johnny, Martin, Nicole, Janelle and Meghan) was...I don't know how to put this without sounding like a complete asshole...a pain from the start. To me, nothing is more boring than drunk people (unless I'm drunk too, then everyone's funny) - you know what I mean. Especially if they keep saying Fuck, Shit, Ass, Bitch etc. all the time and at the same time keep reminding everybody how wasted they are (which they did quite a lot in the bar scene and later as well). Another thing, and this needs work, they came across very alike. If I had blocked out their names when I read this - it would read like it was the same person saying the whole thing. There's really nothing in their dialogue or behavior that sets them apart except for the fact that one is more drunk than the other. Okay, maybe Martin and Meghan stand out a little bit but it's only because we see and hear so little of them compared to the others. Sticking with the dialogue, to me, real-life talk in movies shouldn't sound like what real-life talk sounds like in real life but rather how real-life talk sounds like in movies. There's a big difference. There's a lot of real-life talk going on in the bar scene that doesn't really go anywhere. That reminded me of 'Death Proof' which I thought was a disaster (except for the scenes with Kurt - cos' Kurt's, like, God). All you had there was two groups of bitches flapping their boring cunts off and it made my dick fall asleep. Move it along, Kurt needs to kill somebody here. That's the same how I felt with the bar scene - move it along. Yes, you introduced the new characters but like I said earlier, know when nuff's enough. Also, the story Johnny tells about Jake being wasted did not have a strong enough punch line imo. to pull off that rather long setup. And the "real" story he tells to Martin afterwards doesn't really come into play at any point (unless Jake had had an encounter with Xavier before that as well, but I seriously doubt that - there's no evidence really to support that). The same can be said for the Johnny-Janelle-Martin love triangle, you lead us down a path that ultimately turns out to be a dead end.

To be continued...

Review - PART 2

...continued.

After they get to the house is pretty much a continuation of the bar scene with Nicole making a dick of herself (although I fail to understand why she was picking on Lisa and to a certain extend Jake. Whatever animosity that laid buried there was never explained. Unless she was just talking drunk of course, and if that's the case why use it). After thatt it pretty much just turned into a standard slasher flick. And that's not a bad thing at all. It was definitely a big shocker when Danny went berserk on Jake and then Lisa, and later when Carlie off'ed Nicole and Meghan (sort of). I didn't buy the need to change into work clothes though. I mean, they were getting logs not drilling for oil. Also, why did Lisa go outside with Danny? Danny, from Lisa's point view, seemed to be managing the logs just fine. Of course you had to set up the kill scenes but in my opinion it you did use a couple of cheap tricks here - that's okay though, we all do. The same sorta goes with the whole use of Jill and Bobby - other than needing a reason to phone the police, these two characters bear zero importance to the plot. Again, it's distracting and it takes us away from the core story.If you can figure out a way to get the 5-0 outthere, without using the Jill excuse, you can cut those two completely from the script (and all you really need is one of the youngsters phoning the police during an attack and you're home free). While on the subject of scenes I think could be cut, the little conversation Officer Jacobs has with his wife. Why is that even in there? I don't care about what his wife was expecting him to do - he'll be dead soon anyway (which was rather obvious - especially with the bad connection with the Dispatch - typical Horror/slasher cliché). Don't get sidetracked by irrelevant stories. Focus on the plot.

I wasn't crazy about the dialogue throughout the script - granted, the were some exellent nuggets in there - but for the most part the dialogue was a little boring to me and stretched out (I'll get to that later). Obviously the dialogue and characters go hand in hand and I felt you could have varied it a bit - especially iro. the youngsters and the cutey-pie talk from Danny and Carlie (as I've already mentioned earlier). But mostly I felt the dialogue could be trimmed all around. There are alot of lines in there you could remove without it changing anything story wise. I'm not talking about hacking the script with a broadsword but rather a scalpel - finesse it. Example:

Quoted from The Scripy pg. 45              MARTIN Oh yeah, I'm fine. Pretty fucked up though. Must be the altitude, huh? He laughs...nervously.              JANELLE Yeah, me too Marty. You're not alone my friend. I'm trashed.

Right there, Janelle says basically the same thing three times. Surely, once is enough. You don't have to cram it down the readers throat.

Another thing:

Quoted from The Script pg. 64              LISA You fucking asshole! What the fuck is wrong with you?

I though that was kinda a weird thing thing to say to some who's trying to kill you (and who has just killed your boyfriend).

Also:

Quoted from The Script pg. 65              LISA Fuck you asshole! Why are you doing this? What's wrong with you? Her words are weak. She looks terrible.

You do this in other places as well, stating how the characters say the different lines - after they have said it. In my opinion, you should do that in parenthesis prior to the dialogue, cos' when I read the dialogue and that it had a exclamation point in the end, I thought she was screaming.

The writing itself is fine, could be a little tighter for my taste - that's just how I like it, but overall it was good. I think you have three instances where "bodies bounces back violently" in the script. I think you should mix up the wording a little. Also, all the characters in the script seem to giggle and laugh at an unhealthy interval, I would personally cut down on that.

Now, THE BIG REVEAL in the end reminded me a lot of how it was done in 'Saw I', only difference is that it worked in Saw because - looking back - all the pieces of the puzzle was there, you just weren't able to see the big picture. Here you bring in Xavier, a character that's mentioned maybe two or three times up until that, and it doesn't have that WOW effect. In fact it was a MAJOR LETDOWN cos' it's pure Deux Ex Machina tactics - and that never works. As far as who or what Xavier is, frankly, I don't care. Whether he's an alien, Don Corleone, Santa Clause or Satan himself it doesn't matter to me, because he comes in too late to make an real and meaningful impact.

And that's why I think the script didn't work as a whole.

That's not to say that it can't work - because it can. Deep down it's a good plot - you have at least two interesting characters here - but in my personal opinion it needs a major overhaul. Focus on the plot and keep it tight.

I hope I didn't come across as too harsh here but it is my honest opinion.

Good luck with the re-write.


Cheers
Rob

I read this last night and it's very good. Being a horror fiend, I'd say it's more creative and effective than quite a bit of filmed crud I've seen lately. I like a lot of the dialogue, and there are some nice twists (I do have a problem with the gratuity of Joey's fate--but then again, I'll relent that it does further the story).

Overall, it flows well and is absorbing, and I'd love to see it as a feature film. And seriously, this is coming from someone who watches EVERYTHING horror genre related.

Thanks Steed!  I appreciate your kind words.  The version you read is an older one.  The new one is 10 pages shorter, tighter, and much better in my mind.  I am gearing up for a final rewrite this week.  Most don't seem to "get" the ending.

Thanks again!

Thanks, Col!   Excellent info here.  Really appreciate it man...but…one of these days, I’m going to find out what your real name is…for now we’ll go with Col.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, but I've been sick.

Funny about the title, because it was actually originally titled “Whiteout”, but when I finished the first draft, I went to buy up all the .com, .net, .movie, etc, and I found that there was already a “Whiteout” in post production…a pretty big scale graphic novel deal with Kate Beckinsale…damn!!!! I was crushed.  So I came up with the new title about 2 weeks later.  I actually like it better now, and what you just said there is cool, and I see it now playing a few different ways.  Good catch!

I’m terrible with loglines and I came up with this one in a hurry.  It definitely needs help.  The latest one I’m using goes like this…

     Good friends, great skiing, epic snow…
     Oh yeah…
     And a shitload of killing!
     The blood that’s shed will never fade to white.

Any suggestions are very, very welcome (as I’m not crazy about this one either).

Thanks for that.  My writing history is not script writing, but short stories, novels, etc.  I’ve always liked writing that has a poetic feel to it, and imagery is something I always strive for, even in a screenplay.

Yeah, my goal was to make you think Tobias is the Antag, and will be showing up to start his killing all over again in Durango.

I’ve gone over the examples you brought up and I’m starting to agree with you here on using a comma before a name in dialogue.  I don’t believe it’s a must, but I agree that it looks better with them in there.  Thanks for bringing this up!

It is standard to CAP a sound effect that occurs.  It’s basically making the production crew aware that this sound needs to stand out, and is of some importance.

A few people have been confused by the term “rights himself” and “gathers herself” on the same page.  I think I will rephrase both these lines.  Good catch!

Marshall doesn’t really grab or pull Tobias’ leg…he merely flails at his leg, in a last gasp of life, trying to do anything to save his wife, Cyndi (yes, they are married – Marshall is Lloyd’s son, and Joey, is Marshall and Cyndi’s son).  I think I’ll also have to rephrase this scene, as a few have also commented on it.

The pool room they’re in isn’t much bigger than the pool itself, so the exterior glass wall that Tobias shoots through to hit Cyndi, is only some 4 feet or so away from the pool edge.  The total distance of the shot is no more than 25 feet or so.

Maybe CAPing dialogue is out, but I included it to emphasize what Carlie was saying.  Maybe I’ll take it out.

Wow, great catch on the extra “dot”!  Incredible…thanks!  I hate mistakes!  Yeah, I agree that I definitely enjoy the ellipses and aposiopesis…maybe too much!  In dialogue they’re perfect to show a pause in speech, and in the prose portion, I think they’re nice for combining thoughts.  I also just like the flow they give text.  Yeah, I’m definitely guilty as charged here!

The sleeping toddler scene has been drastically cut from its original incarnation.  I’ll add something to show he’s asleep.  Good catch!

Many don’t like the sweetness here, but I think it’s important to present D & C this way early on.  I also think it’s fairly normal and to me, it doesn’t come off as cringe-worthy or too saccharine at all, but your point is taken for sure.

D & C are definitely in love with each other and they’re the kind of people that like to show it.  Again, to me, I don’t find this at all weird or irritating, but many have said the same thing about them being way too lovey dovey.  Point taken.

I’m considering using the correct “FADE TO WHITE”, but not quite sure yet.

“Cool’s” is a contraction for “cool is”.

I like the “cool” conversation!  I really do.  It’s just the whacky way they are together.

The original draft had Danny being frightened by the cat.  Many said I needed something in between the Patterson kills and the long bar scene, so I added the vagrant scene being killed and combined it with the cat scene.  I’m a cat lover, so I need to include a cat in here.  You think it’s a total cliché?  I really don’t think so.

The original draft had a few sing-alongs, but I also had actuall songs they were singing to.  I pulled them out but left in the singing along, as again, it just shows what kind of character Danny is.  I like it in here, but I do agree it could come off as cheese…if it does, it’ll hit the floor.

I love the snowflake scenes!  They will be very cool effects.  It can be pulled off and I really think it adds a lot to scene changes.

I love Carlie!!  C’mon now!

I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say, “When describing the characters you have "actually" featured in two descriptions for Johnny & Janelle, was this intentional? Its sounds repetitive.”  Let me know.

I decided that I was going to always spell “ok” as “OK”.  I think it looks better.

The Kus didn’t care about the puke until it became apparent how bad it really was.  He was hoping she’d jump in the shower with him, but she wasn’t even thinking about a shower.

Yeah, 4 minutes of meandering, meaningless banter!  A lot of people thought this was way too long.  It’s been cut down a bit, and may be cut a bit more, but overall; I don’t think it will play out nearly as long as it reads.

I’m still a High Fiver, but I agree, they can get irritating very fast.  All things in moderation!

The Nicole fake biting Megan’s neck will look cool I think.  Actually, I see this image in the trailer, so you have no clue where the story’s going.  It’ll be done kinda goofy-like.

I always CAP the first letter in anything that’s used as a name (Doctor, Babe, etc.).

A few have commented on the amount of drinking, but in reality (at least my reality!), I don’t think it’s that crazy.  With all the snow falling and accidents going on, the last thing they need to worry about is being pulled over for swerving or whatever, as the cops have too many accidents to deal with on a night like this.

Glad you like Nicole!  She calls ‘em likes she sees ‘em!

I’m surprised you think Janelle is an arrogant bitch.  Other than D & C, she’s my favorite.  She’s cool people actually.  The things she says are mostly joking around and in a filmed version, I think you’d like her a lot more….at least I hope you would.

I love the way “anfuckingthingelse” sounds!  I really do.

Glad the big twist worked for you.  It is meant to be the turning point to everything.  The slow, pondering pace now picks up and everything gets crazy…kinda like 2 movies in 1!

Agreed, Jake should be screaming more.  I’ll put that in.  Good catch.

I like the whistling too.  It’s actually quite an eerie tune if you do it right…check it out…

Glad you’re appreciating Janelle and Martin now.  They are good people.

(cont.)