Quoted from mgj Yeah, that's what I meant.  That's fair enough.  Again though, if it where me...

Ha ha, well, you have a point there. I'd probably be begging, too, if I were captured like that...but then again, I'm only 17, so I still have some stuff to do before i die.

Quoted from mgj That's all factually true.  I can't disagree.  My thinking was that these guys seemed to be pretty hateful, that if homosexuality never existed in the world they would find something else to fuel their hatred.  That's all I meant by evil not needing an excuse.  Not knowing can be unsettling too in its own way but I see your point.  If you provide a reason then it becomes something that is instantly relatable and hits closer to home.

I see, because we're always looking for excuses. That is a bit scary now that I think about it. But I feel as though if it could happen in real life, then it should strike a bit of fear and make you think: that really happens, you know? Damn, that's scary!

Sean

Sup, Zombie


So, the thing I enjoyed most about this is that you went in with a theme people were fighting over something, same sex couples. I don’t think though there was detail in terms of motive, and the approach was very black and white, good and evil, which one of the pitfalls of the horror genre.


Also, I liked the setting the wilderness is a place of self-discover, turning a new leaf. Problem I do have is that Shannon our protagonist didn’t appear to need it. After the death of her husband she seemed fairly capable. I took note of the fact that she hasn’t spoken to her daughter about Tom’s death, the only need she has, but that’s hardly a reason for her to go on a trek for self discovery. Tom’s character also mentions time and time again about the “Shannon protecting the daughter. It’s the job of the father to protect the family, but I don’t think leaving you’re daughter for a trip is what he had in mind. The only story strategies I could brainstorm were that Ashley encourages Shannon, or Ashley tags along. I don’t think you want Ashley tagging along unless you put her in her teens, possible.


After Shannon comes out of this incredible ordeal there’s no Ashley, which I found strange. I would expect based on the premise I set forward before that she needs to talk to her about Tom that Shannon found some sort of strength near the end to talk to Ashley about Tom’s death, and now more importantly her near death. Again, I like that you tried to induce a theme, but what about this makes this Shannon’s story, what makes Shannon right for this story?


Also, in your theme I’m assuming based on you’re dialogue and stark portrayal of the killers, which actual comedic in some parts don’t know if that was intentional, that you more liberal on the topic of same sex relationship. But, you also have non of the lesbians or gays survive, and Tom’s remarks again, “…protect her. It’s the father’s job to protect the family…”, I’m interested in this because it’s repeated so much, so it holds some sort of significance, but what about a family with two fathers or two mothers, what’s their role. Does Tom not believe in same sex relationship, I don’t think so, but still it’s a lingering effect.


It kind of reiterates the killer’s point if they were clever enough to make it, but it’s in the structure. “See, only a straight woman could of protected her daughter (not literally here, but she’s surviving for her daughter) like that, a homosexuals could never do that” And they don’t because they all die, so sayth Tom: “Father protects the family, the mother protects the children.” I’m just saying that this is a plausible perspective, I could see Richard Roeper spouting this, lol.


I think Ashley should be at least 12 + and goes along with her mother, where eventually she wants to have the talk with her about her father. I think Ashley should come out to her mother that she “thinks” she’s a lesbian. This way personalizes the theme with the main character, creates subtext between Shannon, Ashley and Terri (if Ashley has already confided with Terri and not her mother yet). This way too you can all the same characters die, but have Shannon and Ashley survive, no one can say all the homosexuals were killed.

Plus it heightens the tension when its revealed that the killer are prejudice against gays, with Shannon and the audience knowing that her daughter maybe gay.


I do like the build just as it is. I like the descriptions all the guts and gore. I sometimes didn’t like all the fussing going on between the killers it’s like haven’t you guys done this before.

I also thought the ending more so the battle, while written well, was repetitive because Shannon battles Frankie first I think, than the exact same beat is hit when Reco pops back up and we were on the chase again. I did like that scene were Shannon almost drowns almost; near death – rebirth, like her current situation. I think with the addition of Ashley you could cross-cut with each dealing with one killer on the run, and the suspense of will Shannon get to Ashley before either of them is killed.

The thing I loved most about this script though, the bears. I love bears, and I love the word – grizzly.


Hope some of this makes sense and helps.


BLB

BLB,

Thanks for reading. I had a feeling that you were going to mention something about Ashley, but I didn't expect to have most of the review talk about her. But, to put it simply, I think that it's a good suggestion to have Ashley encourage Shannon to go on the trip, and I've thought about it for a bit, but can't seem to exactly get it right, so I'm going to think about it a little bit more and see if anything pops up. But with the other suggestion about having an older Ashley come on the trip, I feel as though that wouldn't work too well.

I think it's going way too much into the homosexuality subject if there's a scene where Ashley confronts Terri saying that she thinks she's gay, and won't cause further problems except the fact that Ashley could be killed along with the others. The fact is, is that Reco and Frankie are going to kill all four hikers, including Shannon, even though she's not gay, just because they either suspect Shannon is gay since the other three are, or that they're going to kill her because she doesn't mind same sex relationships and that she supports it, which they might as well consider a sin, also. So either way, whether or not Ashley were a homosexual, she'd still be a target.

It'd be a nice chase scene to have Ashley fight Frankie and have Reco chase after Shannon, but I don't think Shannon would run off while her daughter gets attacked by one of the killers. Shannon would fight to death to protect her daughter, and if these two guys could take down two full-grown women, I'm sure they could take down Shannon and Ashley just as easily. So I'm sure it'd be unlikely that they'd split up, unless Shannon told her daughter to stay next to the river while Shannon went to go rescue her friends, then they got split off as Reco chased Shannon and Frankie went after Terri and Ashley.

The other two reasons why I kind of don't want to include Ashley in the hike is 1) I'm not that well when it comes to young characters (mainly before they hit puberty) and 2) I don't want to do an entire rewrite because I'm happy with what I have and I don't really want to change a lot of things.

The message about the mother protecting her daughter comes throughout the script evenly, I think. We have reoccuring scenes with Shannon and Tom, then there's the scene where Shannon drinks water, throws it up, and notices a Moose and her kid (I don't know what a young moose name is). The moose moves closer to its kid and the first thing that Shannon says after seeing that is "Ashley" then she remembers her friends and gets up to do them, indicating that she's very concerned about her daughter and knows that she must fight to stay alive to help her daughter through life. Then there's the other one where Shannon is less oblivious of it, but still notices it; when Reco is killed by the mother bear, it's because he hurt the cub, then later Shannon watches the mother bear and her cub walk away. Just some symbolism.

I'm glad you liked the build up. I was worried that it might be too long, but I recently started to get interested in slow build ups to get to know the characters and feel sorry for them (which I think that this script is my best example so far) whenever something bad happens to them. Glad you liked the guts and gore, because I did too, and the fussing is supposed to get annoying, but be a bit comedic some times because they're idiotic, crazy Christian rednecks, and kind of to make you hate them and want them to die.

And should I be glad that I didn't kill any bears off in this script?

Thanks for your comments. They made sense, yes, and it did help.

Sean

Your pretty much master and creator when it comes your story, so what ever you say goes. These two criminals aren’t the smartest and sometimes teens are wilier than adults. And again if you as a writer decide that the criminals don’t get her, than they don’t.


Shannon doesn’t have to run of while her daughter is being attacked. There are a number of ways they could split up while running together. You’re right she would fight to save her that’s what would give the chase scene an extra umpf during both chase scenes. Shannon has to survive for her daughter, whether or not Ashley is there I think that’s the point, the point I was trying to make was first it would be easier to get that point across with the daughter in the picture some how and second I didn’t get how after the death of the husband/father Shannon could just up and leave her daughter like that, especially if she’s suppose to be as caring as your saying, which is why I also suggested that at least have the daughter suggest she go after Shannon declines.

Like I said I agree that the Shannon surviving comes across, and I like the symbolism. I just trying to correct Shannon’s departure, so I suggested either Ashley suggest Shannon goes or she takes Ashley along and I was merely offering suggestion of how that would work with Ashley being older and possible gay. I just really didn’t like how Shannon just agreed with the trip during such a bad time, then she’s all like I have to survive for my daughter yet you just up and left her all that in context with what Tom was saying which happened before her leaving. He said take of the kid, and she left with very little motive as to why.


Than if I recall correctly there isn’t even a scene with mother and daughter at the end or her looking a picture of her daughter, but a report about the crime on the TV, which worked fine, but what about her surviving and her daughter not by her side, even a nurse coming with a phone saying you have call and Shannon giggles because she hears her daughter’s voice.


I also would like to know what you think about what I mentioned when I said, though the story or theme is crazy Christian vs. gay (marriage) and the fact that structural, even though I understand that your not nor the main character Shannon is for condemning gays and lesbian, which comes across in the dialogue, all the lesbians and gays die and only the straight mother survives.

Plus, Tom expressing his views on a family the father, the mother, the child and their jobs, kind of a, though I know not initially slighted the gay/lesbian marriage. “The father takes care of the family, the mother the children,” but what if you have two mothers or two fathers. I’m not saying the Tom should mention the gay/lesbian marriage that would be out of place, but considering the context of the story it’s a possible subtext to be inferred. This is another reason why I thought it was important that a homosexual survive, so I through it in with a scenario where the daughter. Do you think that this is not what is happening or possibly inferred? I’m interested because I love that you added such a theme. I think horrors are underrated when it comes to theme and symbolism. It’s a great genre.



BLB
Thanks