Wow, this is really entertaining!

Trojan, I don't think it's going to work with this guy, but you have defintely tried, and all the points you make are valid, and seem to be meant to help.  I got into it with this clown once before and I can tell you that this type of behavior is completely typical.

I started reading this awhile back and gave up very early on.  The opening scene is not well written in any way.  It comes off as pure cheese, and almost comedic, the way the vampire talks.  What are all these monks doing running around Grand Rapids, MI, anyway?  Does that make any sense at all?  C'mon, man.

I'd love to be able to read this entire script and give some feedback as well, but I know exactly how Aaron would respond...and it's just not worth it.  Aaron, you need to seriously grow up, dude. Learn to take criticism like a man.  Your arguments back to Trojan are pathetic, at best.  You literally don't take a single thing he says at face value.  What's with that?

I recommend you write a prequel and 2 sequels to this.  That way, we won't hear from you for awhile.

Diasaa -- let me just tell you two things:

1. Your script is flawed. Deal with it. If you want that to change, do a re-write. If you honestly can't see any faults with your script, then you're not built to be a screenwriter.

2. You're a writer. You write to please your readers, not the other way around. I'd love to see you complain like this to a Hollywood executive. See if they pay attention to you again.

Either learn to take critiscism or leave.

--Julio  

I've asked you to stop responding, yet you continue to. What is this argument helping? It's not helping me. It's not helping you. It's just wasting our time.

Honestly, it's just that you are coming from a position where you're trying to be argumentative and where you don't really seem to get the script all that well. Both points being true, it's difficult to find any use in any of your suggestions. It's like asking a satanist to help organize your bible study. Even if the satanist has some suggestions worth hearing, it's silly to think they have your best interests at heart.

You have been nothing but argumentative with me since your first post in the other thread. When I deflate one argument, you just adjust what you're arguing about. Even if you were just out to argue, I could still use your advice if you at least showed some understanding of the script, but there was so much content that you just flat out ignored that it was hard to see a real attempt to understand and work with it there.

I don't think you have a vendetta, I just think you like to like to argue and like to be right. Why else would you KEEP posting in this thread? You already know that nothing useful will come out of it.

It's true, this forum isn't the best for generating good feedback. But in the past, I've found that you get enough good responses that it's worth it to deal with people like you. At any rate, you've made your position clear. I've asked you repeatedly to stop posting and now I'm asking again. If you really need to get the last word, which I have no doubt you do, please do so in a PM.

-Aaron

Who has been nothing but argumentative from the beginning, again?  Hmmm, I wonder who really has the problem here...

I think it is incredibly ironic that you seem to think I am the argumentative one.

In my last post I asked for you to give an example of what you consider constructive feedback to be so that people can give that to you. But you didn't do that. I am not being argumentative here, I am simply trying to find out what you would consider to be worthwhile feedback. PLEASE POST AN EXAMPLE. If we don't know what you are looking for then we can't help.

Now there are a couple of other people who have said there are flaws in the script. So it might be worth listening to what some people have to say in the interests of improving the script.

Is there anything in this post where I am being argumentative or bashing you? I am simply trying to find out what your idea of constructive criticism is. It;s obvious you don't want to llisten to my feedback but other people might have some for you and it would be in your best intersts if you post an example of the type of feedback you are looking for.

I don't know why everybody seems to think that I can't take feedback. The one person that made any attempt to be constructive I responded to very well.

Dreamscale, how would you know if his points are valid or not if you haven't read it? How would you know my points are invalid? You read the first page. It's supposed to be comedic and you complain because it comes off that way. This isn't, btw, me asking you to read it because I know you'd do the same thing and read it just to argue. And talk about needing to grow up. How old are you and the best use of your time is picking fights on a screenwriters forum. My God.

I know how you work and I know I don't want anything to do with it. Was there any use in your post? No. You were just posting to be an ass. I've had a pretty good life pretending you don't exist, and I'd like to go back to that life. Please don't post in here again.

Julio - Who are you and where are you coming from? Do you say the script is flawed coming from a position of actually having read it? Or are you just showing up to argue too? I KNOW the script is flawed. If I thought it was perfect, I never would have posted it on this forum.

As far as writing for the readers. I don't think that's true in this context. I'm reading other scripts on this site to help THEM. I'm certainly not reading them for pure enjoyment.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just saw a long back and forth and assumed the worst about me. If you post in this forum again, please do it to be useful.

Trojan - The mere existence of your post is you prolonging the argument by TRYING TO PROVE that you're not being argumentative. If you want an example of criticisms that work, look at the one guy that posted with constructive advice. I can take that kind of advice with story and character as well. He's coming from a position of trying to help, not trying to start a fight.

Now for the love of God let it go, or put it in a PM, as this fight is just attracting vultures.

Aaron, the reason I know that Trojan’s points are valid is because any and all feedback is valid…something you don’t seem to understand.  You don’t have to agree with everything you hear, and you can make your own points and counterpoints, but not the way you go about it.  You are a little fuckstick, plain and simple.  You come off as such an ass, it’s actually funny.

So, your opening is supposed to be funny, huh?  Wow, that in itself is funny.  I have this sneaky suspicion that it’s only funny because the writing is terrible and the dialogue in atrocious.

I am 11 years old, BTW.  I will be 13 next month.  I hereby challenge you to a joust…then a fist fight.  If you’re still alive, I challenge you to a bike race and then a swimming race…in the lake or in a large pond.  We can have a bunch of monks do the judging for who is the winner.

The reason for my post was to let you know you’re an ass, and that Trojan shouldn’t have to put up with your whiny little cackling shit.

Love the line about you having a pretty good life, pretending I didn’t exist.  That is close to classic.  Please go back to that wonderful life of yours.  Enjoy some sewing today, Edith....I mean Aaron.

Dreamscale- if you post again, I'm going to ask a mod to delete it.

You think I'm being an ass and that's fine.

Not all feedback is useful. If I said that your script needed more unicorns that farted rainbow, that wouldn't be useful. Why, because I haven't read your script and I'm assuming that would have no place in it. There's actually a LOT of advice that isn't useful.

STOP POSTING HERE.

Here is some constructive criticism you can actually use, if you say the next piece of advice is useless then you are beyond any help...

I have mentioned the scene with Mark and Jeremy is not great and the dialogue between Mark and Hannah in that scene is on the nose. We find out through exposition he is not her real father and that vampires killed her parents. How about instead he hints at the fact as to why he doesn't like vampires. He alludes to an incident that happened but doesn't come right out and say it. Then the reader is left wondering what it is and it provides some suspense. Then later in the script you can have Hannah reveal what happened and a slight twist in that Mark is not her father. To me that would be a more interesting and dramatic way of finding out that information than how you currently have it.

Is that feedback helpful? Or would you disagree with me on that point?

Here's an example of what Aaron calls useful feedback...

This script sure is dandy!  What a page turner.  Just love the way those monks fight it out with that mean old vampire. The visuals there were just amazing.  The only negative that I found was that I really feel offended with the "sex" scenes".  I mean, at 1 point, 2 characters actually kissed...that's really gross, and shouldn't take place until people get married.  The scenes where they almsot kissed were so erotic, but it's also so bad.  I feel kind of dirty just thinking about it.  One time, I saw my parents kissing...it was really sick, but they are married, so I guess that's OK, like that.  This is the greatest script I've ever seen or even heard of!  Next time, please keep the sex to a minimum, though.  Can't wait to see this on Mystery Science Theater some day.

That's something I'll consider certainly... but right now I'm getting a little too annoyed with you to really entertain suggestions. The ONLY REASON you are posting it is so that you can keep your argument going. I know this because you could have said it in PM, like I requested.

I'm not even saying that's bad advice... I'm just saying that considering how you've acted so far, I have to take your suggestions with a shaker of salt.

If you have more to say on this matter, please write it in a personal message. I don't know how to ask you any more clearly than that.

-Aaron

I cannot say I am too pleased with what is going on here, but even a kid knows that it takes two (or in this case 3) to tango.  All of you guys need to cut it out.

Now -- Trojan's only offense, as far as I can see, is a failure to move on.  I trust he is done with this thread by now.

And Aaron, if you disagree with feedback, or even find it useless, then you thank the reviewer for their comments -- and you ignore those comments.

True Fact #1 -- when you argue with a review, it is always you that ends up looking bad.  I can understand your frustration, but your responses have been a bit over the top, and this:

Quoted from diasaa This forum has a reputation of a**hole writers who are just trying to take every other writer down a peg.

Well, it is just kind of insulting -- and certainly weakens your case as far as I’m concerned.

And Dreamscale -- WTF?  Get the heck outta' here, man.

I am probably going to delete some of this stuff later, but I am having a very busy day and I am kind of ticked off that I have to spend my time reading this slop instead of responding to farm-fresh comments on my own scripts.

Bert, we've been waiting for you?  Welcome...

I'll back out now.  I was hoping that Aaron would accept my challenges though.  I've been getting really good at riding my new big red bike.

Bert -

Yes, I do agree that perhaps I crossed a line with my responses... specifically, I regret that one you mentioned the most. It was unfair of me to bring this entire board into question, and I really didn't want to do that. I have used this board before to get good revisions on a script, and I shouldn't just dismiss that.

Initially my response to Trojan was to elicit better feedback... even then I was a little annoyed that he only seemed to want to argue his point about genres. When it was apparent that he was more interested in arguing, that's when I got more argumentative as well, and I really regret that. I should have just ignored it.

Sorry to put you through this, as I'm sure you do have better things to do with your time than moderate this squabble. I will take your advice for future reviewers.

-Aaron