Necromancer by Christopher Sorensen - Horror - One general, one necromancer, and a long forgotten god. The earth has been in decay for ten years, now a new warrior will emerge to set the world free. 192 pages - pdf, format

Holy hell.  One hundred ninety two pages???

On your title page it notes that this is "draft ten."  Brother, if that's true, I'd hate to have seen the first draft.  No offense intended, but this looks, feels and reads like a very sloppy first draft.  I didn't make it six pages in before I threw up my hands and quit.

This beast needs some MAJOR rewrites.  Overlong/over-written action/narratives, quizzical, confusing dialogue and I'm not feeling any sense of progressions or story because you're too busy telling us what "the view" is, what "the view" does.  You're not the director or camera man; leave what the view does up to them.  Just write what we see as it happens, in strong, present tense verbs.

Your action/narratives need some big-time overhauling.  The way you phrase things feels clumsy and awkward, and threatens to trip up a reader.  And on at least one occasion you have a Character's name with a parenthetical but no dialogue.  Not to mention the numerous spelling/grammar/syntax errors.  

Sorry, but there's no way this is a tenth draft.  The mistakes and errors -- including the ones on the title page -- are far too glaring for this to be anything but a first draft.  You need to take a meat cleaver to this thing, cut out all the fat and get to the meat.  Tell your story clearly and cleanly; stop directing the camera and give only enough detail to get the point across.  This being a spec script, remember that the idea is to show off your writing and storytelling ability -- not how you'd frame a shot, move a camera or block a scene.

Good luck.  Keep writing.  

- Lon

First of all, yes it is a tenth draft. Specifically from my orginal which was 255 pages which is still in the WGC (Writers Guild Of Canada). During my last script write which by the way got me to the semi finals in the Screenplay Festival, I would have gone further if I wrote it in the present tense. With that in mind it got me to thinking of redoing this script to a more acceptable level for an epic. One thing about using the (view), it is allowed because it only explains the scene or what is in the scene, I do not use words such as Angles, or shots, or cam angles or cam shots, or other forms of camera activity. Most of the time, producers allow it because of the way the view is phrased. So no camera activity is within this script. Plus the fact that I have had this script critiqued and I was told that they found it to be rather rich in detail (Important). This was a plus for me, because all directors, producers, and other entities need this kind of writing. To make it too simple is asking for trouble later on. Learning to write is how to give details, without them, the scene might as well be an empty shell. Also, since you left after six pages, I assume you referred to the Victim slot where I used a parenthisis to give an indication of what the character is doing, such as groaning, and whining. Any script writer knows what clue to give in order for what a character's reply is to be. In this case, all he had to do was make those sounds of despair. No script is too long for overwritten narratives,  scene details are a must if one director can use them. In an epic such as this, details are everything, just look at movies like Avatar, The godfather, Ghandi, Seven, Close Encounters of the third kind, and so on. Most if not all of these scripts have the ideal narrative details to give the reader enough if not more clarity. So - in ending, I appreciate the critical note, but - I feel this script is more than enough to give a reader the much needed vision to make the screenplay adaptable. To shorten up the details is like slicing my own wrists. Epics need details. Always.

Hey Christopher,

I'm going to warn you in advance, you're probably not going to like what I have to say about this.

In short, I agree with what Lon has said. The description is overwhelming. I mean, I can appreciate the fact that you obviously have a vision of where you want this to go, but, at the end of the day, you're trying to entertain us, not bore us. Lon doesn't stand alone when he says that this one can be cut down, big time.

As to this...

Quoted from thenextscott In an epic such as this, details are everything, just look at movies like Avatar, The godfather, Ghandi, Seven, Close Encounters of the third kind, and so on

Let's take 'Avatar' for example. Having read the script, I can tell you that it is nowhere near as descriptive as what your script is. What you also have to remember, 'Avatar' was written AND directed by James Cameron. He wasn't writing it as a spec script, he was writing it as a script that he knew he would end up producing. Therefore, it didn't matter how much detail he put into the script, because he wasn't trying to sell it. 'Avatar' was written to direct, not read. I think you'll find that with 'The Godfather' and 'Close Encounters of the third kind.' Yes, they are descriptive, but nowhere near as descriptive as this.

Sorry, mate. I genuinely hope this one gets read. There may be a great story in there somewhere, but at the moment, it's not showing.

Daniel

Quoted from thenextscott One thing about using the (view), it is allowed because it only explains the scene or what is in the scene, I do not use words such as Angles, or shots, or cam angles or cam shots, or other forms of camera activity.

You don't need "the view" to explain the scene or what's in it -- you just write what's in the scene.  You don't need "the view" to do that.

Quoted Text To make it too simple is asking for trouble later on. Learning to write is how to give details, without them, the scene might as well be an empty shell.

Writing isn't giving details as much as it is knowing what details to give -- and in screenwriting, you give only the details which matter, and which help to give a general overall image to the reader.  And the scene is only an empty shell if it serves no purpose in the story.

Quoted Text Also, since you left after six pages, I assume you referred to the Victim slot where I used a parenthisis to give an indication of what the character is doing, such as groaning, and whining. Any script writer knows what clue to give in order for what a character's reply is to be.

Then you put it in the action/narrative.  "Bob GROANS in agony."  I don't know where you get this "any script writer knows" silliness, when actually what any script writer knows is that if you center a character's name in CAPS, you're signalling DIALOGUE, not a sound effect.

Quoted Text No script is too long for overwritten narratives,  scene details are a must if one director can use them. In an epic such as this, details are everything, just look at movies like Avatar, The godfather, Ghandi, Seven, Close Encounters of the third kind, and so on. Most if not all of these scripts have the ideal narrative details to give the reader enough if not more clarity. So - in ending, I appreciate the critical note, but - I feel this script is more than enough to give a reader the much needed vision to make the screenplay adaptable. To shorten up the details is like slicing my own wrists. Epics need details. Always.

I really don't know what else to say.  I'm not trying to be harsh or cruel at all, I promise you, but you've been misled.  Screenplays aren't about a lot of detail -- they're about the important details. Too much detail can slow a reader down, clog up and interfere with the flow of your story and make your script a chore to read.  And believe it or not, I gave you more pages to impress me than a studio reader likely would have if this was submitted on spec.  They'd have seen all those mistakes on the title page and the first three pages and quickly chucked your script into the "no thanks" pile.  You only have one chance to make a first impression on a reader; if you can't be bothered to fix even a small mistake like a floating double period (first page), the impression you've given that reader is that you don't give a shit.  So why would they?

Seriously, man.  You've got to be cruel to this script.  Go back in there and with a cold and clinical eye, drop everything that gets in the way of the story.  Fix the typos and grammar errors.  Get rid of all those damn "the views."  Tighten it up, aiming for clarity and conciseness.  

Just trying to help, here.

Scott, man, you already know what I'm gonna say.  You could have the greatest story ever told in this script right here, but I'd never know it, because it's so hard to get through.  This is more like a novel than a script: too many details, too much prose!  You're not directing this thing, so you don't need such vivid details and "views", that's not your job.

You also say this is the tenth draft but the very first line ends in an orphan and the second line has two disembodied periods... come on, now.

"The view" this, "the view" that... this is starting to look like a women's talkshow.  Just write what's happening. "The view" is the equivalent of "we see" and it's utterly pointless.

Instead of:
"The view shows the guests inch closer as the man closes his sermon"
just put
"The guests inch closer as the man closes his sermon"

It gets the EXACT same point across, without pointless words.

Yes, it's rich in detail, yes it's an epic.  But you overdo these things.  Less is more.

Gage

OK, Christopher, I can't sit silently by.  I have to throw a few things out.

Epic or not, this is a Spec script and at 192 pages, you're telling us this is a 3 hour and 12 minute film.  It's not.  It won't be.  Anything over 120 pages is going to be looked at just like this is - completely overwritten in every way imaginable.

And it is completely overwritten in every way imaginable.  Seriously.  Every way imaginable.

But, it's also filled with technical mistakes of every kind a well.  And it starts immediately.

You've labeled page 1 as Page 2.  After 10 drafts, this hasn't been caught?

Your very first passage starts with "The view is moving".  You repeat the word "view" over and over.  It's a waste in the first place and it's very annoying repetitive every time it comes up again.  "is moving"  Come on now.  "a sound of the wind"?  No...no.  Then we have another "view" in the same passage.  And finally, what do we end with?  A lonely line wasting orphan that has no reason being here whatsoever.

Then, for some unknown reason, you waste another line with ".  ."  What is this supposed to be?  Why waste a line with gibberish in a 10th draft when you know damn well how overly long this is?

Then we get some dialogue from a "voice".  Is this supposed to be a (V.O.)?  An unknown narrator of sorts?  It's not formatted as such, so I don't know what it is.

Next passage repeats yet again this view and this "complex city" thing.  Then, we get another incorrectly used ellipses which seems to be skipping a space between each dot, which is incorrect.  More about "the view".  Incorrect usage of commas.  Another line wasting orphan in this 6 line passage that really shouldn't be more than 2 lines.

From here, we have "are seen", "is seen", more of the view, completely unnecessary details that all gang up to cause a 5 line passage, which doesn't need to be more than 2 again.

You give us a completely unnecessary aside with more punctuation abuse.

And the "view" just keeps rearing it's very ugly head, over and over, each time a complete waste of space.

But then, you begin your incorrect intro's, in which no characters are CAPPED when they first appear.  More incorrectly formatted dialogue.  More impossible to picture details because they're incorrectly written and formatted.

Dude, sorry, but this is just a complete mess, sorry to say.  Tell your story and pretend you're just the writer.  Write so that we can see what's happening.  Don't suffocate us with all this crazy direction and repetition of "views", "moving", etc.

This thing should not be more than 120 pages and even there it's too long and overwritten.

Sorry, man, but I hope this helps and helps you see the errors of your way -there are many!

Oh man, it's so long. I think you need to take off about 70-75 pages if you really want to sell this and have it produced. I love attention to detail but you take it a bit to far with this. I like the concept of the story, but it's drowned by all the unneeded information you've written.

WOOOHOOOO, YES! i DID IT. NECROMANCER HAS WON THE GRAND PRIZE IN THE THRILLER/HORROR CATEGORY!! In the screenplay festival this year!! I am so excited I can hardly sleep. To all those who said it reads like a novel, well I am here to tell you, details details details. It's all in the details. Plus my second script Black Doors has got an honorable mention in the same category. And guess what? Triton films wants to see the script. Yes you heard right, triton films. Yesssss! (jumping up and down on the couch).

I'm going to have to politely call bullshit on this.

What screenplay festival are you referring to?

Quoted from Dreamscale I'm going to have to politely call bullshit on this. What screenplay festival are you referring to?

Google is your friend.

http://screenplayfestival.com/

Is this current draft the one you submitted, Christopher?  Just curious.

WTF??????  For reals?  How could this possibly be?  I'm almost speechless.

Congratulations, Christopher!  I'm glad to see you did so good!

Horror and/or fantasy aren't exactly my cup of tea, so I haven't read the script... but this goes to show if you have a vision and you want it a certain way, don't let anything stop you.

- Mark

P.S.  -  By the way, did you end up getting script analysis, and was it also positive about the script, or was it like the feedback from here?  I'm just kind of curious because one of my scripts was a quarter-finalist in a contest despite getting a mostly negative analysis from two readers.

Well firstly, congrats on winning the comp, Chris. Good work.

Quoted from Dreamscale WTF??????  For reals?  How could this possibly be?  I'm almost speechless.

I have to admit to sharing this same sentiment after just browsing the first five pages. I then looked back through the feedback and noted this:

Quoted from thenextscott First of all, yes it is a tenth draft. Specifically from my orginal which was 255 pages which is still in the WGC (Writers Guild Of Canada). During my last script write which by the way got me to the semi finals in the Screenplay Festival, I would have gone further if I wrote it in the present tense.

Did you get to the semi-finals when the script was coming in at 255 pages? Not to mention that the whole thing was probably written in past tense from your comment. That’s probably more amazing.

Nevertheless, Congrats again.

Best of luck with it.

I'll throw out some congrats as well, Chris, but I don't understand how this could be still.

First of all congrats to Chris and secondly, maybe this proves that format sticklers aren't always right?  (Can of worms opened?)

I have just opened this script and I do agree though that it is vastly overwritten and poorly formatted.

Well done though, Chris.

I actually looked up the competition, thinking it was a scam.  Apparently, moviebytes.com gives it good reviews.

I'm as befuddled as the rest, Chris.  You've apparently found the only screenplay competition that doesn't set a page limit (most set it at about 130 pages).  I looked at the first five pages and found it too heavy with detail.

Quoted Text Plus the fact that I have had this script critiqued and I was told that they found it to be rather rich in detail (Important). This was a plus for me, because all directors, producers, and other entities need this kind of writing.

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this.  Directors don't want to be chained down with all this detail.  They want room to work and it looks like you're not giving it to them.  Especially with your camera angles.  And actors like to interpret charactyers in their own way.

I sincerly doubt that people will read this script in it's entirety.  In the time it would take to do this, they could easily read two other features here.

Good luck with it.


Phil

Color me dumbfounded.  If the link hadn't been provided, I'd have laughed the author off this website.  But I still stand by my original assessment that this is an over-written mess.  The only logical explanation for me would be that all the other entries were even worse and made this one look like gold in comparison (talk about dumbfounded...)

Congrats anyway, but this makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Quoted from Lon Color me dumbfounded.  If the link hadn't been provided, I'd have laughed the author off this website.  But I still stand by my original assessment that this is an over-written mess.  The only logical explanation for me would be that all the other entries were even worse and made this one look like gold in comparison (talk about dumbfounded...)

I have to concur completely.

Quoted from Lon Color me dumbfounded.  If the link hadn't been provided, I'd have laughed the author off this website.  But I still stand by my original assessment that this is an over-written mess.  The only logical explanation for me would be that all the other entries were even worse and made this one look like gold in comparison (talk about dumbfounded...) Congrats anyway, but this makes no sense to me whatsoever.

You must have some serious writing chops to post something as bold as this!

Looking forward to "The Snow"!

In homebrewing competitions, there is a saying:  The best-of-show winner is only as good as the 2nd best-of-show winner.

I found it kind of odd that the competition would have grand prize winners for each genre.  Grand prize generally means the best over all; there can be only one... like The Highlander.


Phil

I figured there would be some controversy on this thread.

It is fine to offer congrats -- but continued dope-slapping of the script serves no good purpose, really, so probably time to wind that down.  I mean, you are not going to convince this author that he has done something wrong, you know?

And fact is, nobody has read the script, right?  Understandable -- given its length -- but who knows what is in there that clearly spoke to somebody?

I would suggest that there is a lesson here -- both about personal voice, and contests in general -- but I am still working out just what that lesson might be...

Quoted from Andrew You must have some serious writing chops to post something as bold as this! Looking forward to "The Snow"!

I don't think it's bold to state a screenplay is badly written, and it has nothing do with my ability; this is about basic screenwriting principals.  Afterall, I'm not the only person who gave the kind of feedback I gave, and I'm not the only person to express surprise and doubt.  Which begs the question, why are you singling me out?

I don't begrudge anyone their success, I'm simply trying to understand how this script managed to win in its category.

But bert is right.  Regardless of how WE see the script, I'm sure the author doesn't appreciate us pissing on his parade.  I'll refrain from further comments other than to once again congratulate him and wish him luck.

Quoted from Lon I don't think it's bold to state a screenplay is badly written, and it has nothing do with my ability; this is about basic screenwriting principals.  Afterall, I'm not the only person who gave the kind of feedback I gave, and I'm not the only person to express surprise and doubt.  Which begs the question, why are you singling me out? I don't begrudge anyone their success, I'm simply trying to understand how this script managed to win in its category. But bert is right.  Regardless of how WE see the script, I'm sure the author doesn't appreciate us pissing on his parade.  I'll refrain from further comments other than to once again congratulate him and wish him luck.

Oh, we should definitely congratulate. That's the only reason I commented, 'cos i felt you were singling his script out for a very rough time. I wasn't singling you out, though. I just thought the message was a little uncalled for. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate someone referring to your script in the way you did his.

Andrew, not to single you out either, but you should read the first 5 or 10 and see what you think.

I'd be interested.

To be fair, I haven't read it, and everyone may be right, I just don't think the poor bloke should get bashed over the head with comments about his script.

Quoted from Andrew To be fair, I haven't read it, and everyone may be right, I just don't think the poor bloke should get bashed over the head with comments about his script.

Andrew, you know how SS works.  Writers post their work and members read it and provide their feedback.

We know damn well that all feedback is not good feedback, in terms of being praise, as well as being accurate.  We all have to take what we get with a number of salt shakers - some is good and accurate, some is poor and not good advice at all.

These posts are all personal opinions and everyone needs to understand that.

Let's not over debate it, but we're talking about two different things. I don't have a problem with negative feedback, but if someone says "it's an overblown mess", or something of that nature, I think it's a bit meanspirited. There are nicer ways of saying an opinion. Plus, and here's the kicker, if Steven Spielberg says it's an overblown mess, he's a massively talented filmmaker that has more credibility in speaking like that 'cos he's a got a track record - but let's just have it on the record that I don't approve of anyone being so dismissive. Especially if it's a rogue amateur offering his opinion - it doesn't wash to speak so authoritatively from the tower looking gigantically down.

And there's no way it would pass the 'would-you-say-it-to-their-face-in-the-pub' test. So if those social rules are applicable in person, why not on a forum. That's my underlying point and I've always been consistent on that and have only ever called people out on that principle.

Quoted from Andrew Oh, we should definitely congratulate. That's the only reason I commented, 'cos i felt you were singling his script out for a very rough time. I wasn't singling you out, though. I just thought the message was a little uncalled for. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate someone referring to your script in the way you did his.

If someone felt I'd written a bad script and took the time to explain why, I would have no problem with that whatsoever.  That's what this website is for, its entire raison d'etre -- you post your work, you get feedback.  You can't pick and choose what kind of feedback you get.

I explained the issues I had with this script plainly, clearly and objectively.   Even when the author got defensive, I made it a point to clarify that my intention wasn't to belittle, but to provide honest, objective feedback.  That's my approach to every script I reply on, so no, I didn't single this script out in any way.

It's not my intention to insult the author.  I don't know the first thing about him.  He could be a heckuva guy, a god among men.  But we don't come here to critique the person, we come here to critique the work.  And that's what I did, just like I always do.

Congratulations Christopher. I left you a heart felt comment but I see someone erased it because I was being honest. I basically told you to stay true to yourself and dont listen to a bunch amateurs on this site at how to sell or write a screenplay and lo and be hold you have done well for yourself. Congrats once again.  Let the haters hate my friend! : )

Why post a script on a site that is 'chock full of amateurs' if you're not going to listen to what they have to say?  Seriously?  What's the point?


Phil

I've always felt that the technical rules for a spec script are over blown on SS. Are they important? Sure, no doubt, but the biggest issue is the story. Who really cares if "FADE IN" is on the wrong side of the page? It can be fixed in a blink.

It reminds me a little of the concept of sales. You can teach a salesman the numbers but you can't teach him how to sell. I view SP's the same way. You can teach a writer how to format properly but you can't really teach them how to write a story. Most of the time, IMO, that's a natural ability. Can it be acquired? Yes, but most likely not.

I hate big blocks of action, in fact, I probably won't read a SP if it opens with 11 lines of unbroken action. That said, how hard is that to fix? Again, that can be fixed very quickly if the action is well-written.

I have two main problems with the script in question: the length and the annoying "View" thing. I read the first ten pages. It's good, and that's saying a lot from me considering  this genre isn't my cup of tea.