Hey man! Sh!t, you're fast... I was barely even done.

Look, without the opinion of someone who considers only the writing, my own would be utterly worthless... and obviously, missing the spacing is just horrendous of me. Besides that, I think my brain IS just about ready to attack the fat of this thing, because it has now been so long since I've seen it, myself, I will likely see it under a very different light.

I'll clue you in on the scene you like, btw... I took the mushrooms in the forest, but they kicked in when I got in that car ride with nature boy... and I definitely mean "I," because I practically lived this thing out as a result of my immersion and getting whacked completely out of reality. Then I just wrote it.

I cleaned it up the next day when sobered a little.... but honestly, even though it totally was apart from any normal script-writing by far, the very first draft of that sequence was so abstractly poetic, I actually hold it up as one of the best things I've ever written in my life. It couldn't stay in that form at all.. it was utterly bonkers... but it kept enough of that spirit to have remained impactful even to myself.

I haven't actually done much else with Lychanpoops except your cut to's and basics since those days, but instead have jumped head-long into some actual novel writing, and between my day job and that, this has just been sitting in my folder. When I get immersed, I get immersed. I'm barely even conscious that it's 2013 right now (it is, right?), in fact...

But such is life...

I loved American Werewolf in London, too, to be truthful and get away from my sarcastic humor, but for this... I had the exact same sense that I had seen everything I was looking at before, found I couldn't go with the "self-aware" scream or Cabin in the Woods thing (as those are loveable but too recent), and so I just hit it with as much badassery as could be fit into that beginning without making my old roommate cry about my points on continuity and plagiarism...

But thank you, thank God and Baby Jesus and all the Baby Saints, that you recognized the actual cleverness behind just a few of the things I did IN LIGHT of the actual reality behind it's creative problems - because I thought I had gone insane with the disappointment no one could know those things - and which you couldn't know off-hand unless told. While some are for security, just a few I have been biting my nails all this time just for anyone to uncover and recognize as intentionally and outwardly in the face of some specific things. This thing is written in Punk, basically, almost, as a whole. But I believe on-screen things would work quite differently regarding those, especially when once again redone to make any final sort of shooting script... I had no idea, however, how much of an effect that temperment of mine would have on people's even wanting to complete the first act (when my pure work is in Act's 2 and 3 especially), and that has actually been very illuminating, overall.

I don't know if I would want to post any perfect, perfect perfect, script out in public, though, until the day of reckoning on it, if that ever comes.

Hey thanks again, and same to you man.

(SPOILERS AHEAD) A few other of my very own, favorite additions, came close to the later half of the work, but few quite like that car ride till the end, which (SPOILER REMINDER) is based off of greek tragedy and not necessarily happy, actually, but ready-made for a sequel though probably pretty contentious if anyone reads it... some people will hate it, and some people will cry, and some might think it's just right, idk... but this is one where the wolf definitely gets away.

Since you didn't finish.

One convention it absolutely follows out of homage to this genre is that another person is bitten and becomes a wolf. Someone relateable, but no one we like deeply... someone we might be jeleous of, in fact... HE is done for, but who in the town (besides us) knows there were two? Possibly three or more out there in the world, in fact. It leaves a lot to hint and questions unanswered, just as many as asked, but while some people hate those, some people gain a lot of imaginative activity of their own through watching them. The selfishness of Melanie and all the friends she manipulates pretty much gets everyone killed... and that's my ex in a nutshell... at one point, her redneck informant wants to take things into his own hands and passes out guns and bombs to all the receptionists and stuff, and as soon as he leaves the room (my favorite single moment) someone triggers something and all you see is red paste splatter the windows from outside. Red paste that used to be receptionists. No one makes it, red-neck standing in abject terror of his own rash dumbness. Rather than political or topical, my hidden messages are all ones of interpersonal selfishness and ignorance inherent in our social conditions.  

I'm someone who loves LOVES "Prometheus," for example, even though it's against in reviews and sales, but I love it because the entire movie is almost a direct (and literally referenced) allusion to Friedrich Nietzsche's "The Will to Power," and other of his works. It stands that philosophy versus the modern day advances in science and genetics since the time of his writing about the Ubermensch. Things have changed, and we don't necessarily understand, basically. It's a movie that's anti-fascist, anti-corporate, anti-getting too far ahead of ourselves, and pro-human-spirit in truth (the real 'over-man' turns out to be the girl who can put herself through the surgery machine and still kick ass, for example, not the old guy who thinks he is - the example of Nietzsche's concept of how the overman SHOULD look, though, is quite literally rendered in every detail as the giant humanoid Man-alien, guy, as well as his race's obvious connection to ancient myth and legend..), and it's all done through the presentation of the character's inner struggles, at once. Like.... NO ONE knows that (that's why it's understood so little, or for mixed up reasons), but Scott went ahead and made it anyway, because it's genius and poignant. I don't think I'm that good... but in terms of depth and hidden message, that's my goal whether it makes money or not. I just want to slap the world in the balls, if not jiggle them just a little.   Daintily.  

Who's the real ubermensch in Lychanthrope, then? Well... both having no names and therefore truly being the same person, metaphorically, The Sheriff and the Man are both equally protagonist and antagonist as a result, each deep within themselves... and what we watch is the inner struggle of one trying to find out the answer, and one already knowing it more than well. It's selfishness that is left as the true antagonist, then, in here. That's my own assessment.

One viewer might see it as the Sheriff, and fully argue for his side. Another viewer might see it as Wolf/Man, and fully argue for that. I want that, I think.
I'm almost glad you couldn't tell or decide yet, under that light, because one isn't really supposed to except in their own heart. In other words, I wanted a narrative unique in that you decide the conflicts, yourself, based on your own projections, and who is what is all your choice, alone. It's ideals and concepts that are actually at odds, in this. It's for that reason (and in spite of some of the longer dialogues among others, but which when spoken aren't tooo bad on length, sorta), the wolf actually receives almost NO dialogue at all, except for a couple lines from a Bob Dylan song, "Man of Constant Sorrow."  


(RE-SPOILER)
I think the most creative element I personally added to this work is the kill/delivery method for silver. The original had the town awarding the sheriff with an antique revolver and silver bullets as a reward for his service, just conveniently before, oh! he's gotta use that now.... there was this reality show thing in addition, and I couldn't. I just couldn't...

In mine, it's smash a car into the jewelry store, steal all the silver you can grab, tape it to a claymore mine you got out of a "Saw"-like booby trap you found earlier (because the wolf is actually a vietnam vet, his backstory being that he became infected in the jungle with his sarge, and was used in rampages there against enemies while placed on all sorts of drugs), strap the silver to the mine, and run full force at the monster to a point you know you can blow the heck out of it. That's my other favorite part.... My sole focus will be to rework things just to bring people THERE, to that point, and then see how they feel...

Hope that didn't ruin too much, though.

Definitely impressive you put that much thought into this. Especially considering it's horror, a genre that's constantly getting shallower.

I mean... that's a lot to think about. Some of this is going over my head -- I'll tell you that right now.

And that actually didn't ruin it for me. If anything it makes me want to pick it up again. But I'll wait, if you're going to rework this soon.

To give a little background for knowledge's sake, and so you might recognize it in other films (because he's influenced almost everything that happened in the 20th century, historically, and remains well regarded among the educated elite), Nietzsche's philosophy began as one of nihilism (he coined that term, meaning 'f@ck-it, annihilate everything you think you know), where after losing one's connection to god for some reason, one feels no more connection to right or wrong and lives as if nothing in the world matters. His book "Beyond Good and Evil" notes this fully. He then expanded by saying that this world is set up in a master vs slave mentality by nature (he said by nature, but lived in an era when they hadn't discovered the atom or even genetics), and that some people deserve to have the right to enslave others based on their superiority. Later, the nazis would take this idea to the fullest extreme (every SS man was required to carry one copy of Will to Power or Thus Spoke Zarathustra on his person at all times, in fact, along with mein kampf), and some groups to this day literally still follow this thinking. Any sociopath who wants to lord over someone else, basically.

In his later life, he completely reversed this and felt sorry, but it was too late... his last philosophy, from before he went completely insane and was forgotten for a time, was the one that inspired Fight Club from the ground up... he expanded on his earlier thinking that some day there will come an over-man, or ubermencsh in german, after human evolution has run its course - and he will be superior, still, but ONLY because he is creator of not just his own values in the absence of any other, but also all he touches. With no power, he still can do so with rationality and inner strength beyond all normal reasoning. And though no one can defeat the overman, regardless, it's in his grasp to win especially while not forcing, not forcing it upon anyone. He will do it by Will of Creativity rather than power, only... almost as if making his own universe (like in Akira) because "It's only when one has lost everything that he is free to do anything," as Fight Club said, but Friedrich said first; when all is erased, the only way to fill the void is to create oneself within it. The coming of the truly creating human spirit, basically.

I would make the argument, in fact, that almost everything you think you've learned about life through film in the last century, especially the great of great in horror and scifi, is in some way - even if indirectly - all rooted in the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. How many horror films have been based on H.P. Lovecraft work, like The Thing and Alien? So many... so so many... even Stephen King has said he would be no one without Lovecraft; but H.P. Lovecraft directly quoted Nietzsche in almost every single story he wrote, just slipped inside of action lines and dialogue (Take H.P.'s "man of truth," and "beyond good an evil" lines in his story The Silver Key, for example, the latter a book title, the former from Will to Power). It works like that, and down and down the line...

This is the essence of what Prometheus based some of its characters on, too, to wrap up my reference citation. Take the old man who clearly thought of himself as over-man, yet like the nazis and the typical course of that same line - and into modern times in many groups - still cannot get around their constant grabs for power and selfishness; with the other characters being models of pure modern science, which actually places humanity on a much more small and humble level. There's a new way of thinking on the horizon, where nothing in this universe can be created or destroyed (a natural law of matter and energy), and so all that we call creative is really communication of some form, and that takes us back to a philosophy of empathy rather than the self. True Empathy=total connection to all others. It's as if Scott asks the audience, "Which do you choose? Here's what I think..." and I think that's.... almost absurdly genius. It's the precursor to the philosophy of a new age. Which we need. Also the aliens were badass.

I think horror is perfect for this, or any moral lesson... Psychologically, you traumatize the audience when you show them violence whether they like it or not, think they feel coldness or not. That coldness and fear, both, are signs of the body going into shock. When the body goes into shock, the brain becomes easily manipulated - extremely open and malleable. You can then plant just about any suggestion into the mind as you please. This is why thrill-kill movies actually are pretty dangerous in horror to the viewer, when they leave nothing, but also why sometimes the moral lessons we learn from them stick with us the longest. If you have a real moral lesson, nothing beats horror to just ram it into someone's brain with.

Wow.... never seen horror analyzed that way. Interesting stuff, man... seriously.

I think I just learned a lot from your post. I always thought about horror (and other genre movies) as being fun entertainment that could occasionally be social commentaries (like George Romero's films). But I never thought about using them to express anything very deep or meaningful. And I guess it's because most horror films don't; That stuff's usually left for dramas.

I definitely agree about violence and disturbing stuff sticking with you the longest. Some of the most vivid childhood memories I have are of things like that. They're also some of the most interesting memories.

But I'm not entirely sure what you meant by thrill-kill movies being dangerous for audiences... You mean like movies inspiring real life violence? Not sure I'm with you on that, but I do think a lot can be learned from some movies.

Okay, that makes sense. Wasn't exactly sure what you meant about thrill-kill movies. I don't think movies cause violence, either -- there's a quote from Scream, something about how movies don't make psychos -- they just make psychos more creative. And I think that's true; You'd have to be a pretty sick in the first place to do some of the shit people blame movies for causing.

And I agree that some films can leave viewers feeling "cold". But personally? Movies don't bother me. I haven't seen Hostel, but I can appreciate movies that seemingly have no value, if only for their writing and directing. This may not be the best example since it's not really a torture film -- but I thought Wolf Creek was fantastic, but it doesn't really have anything to say. I guess what I'm trying to say is, movies don't affect my mood in a negative way so themes and morals have never really been a big factor in what I think about a movie. I judge them mainly on technical aspects... writing, directing, acting... etc.

Because I don't think horror films have much to say, for the most part. I'm mainly talking about slashers here. The genre was originally a sort of made to be -- or at least they said so -- a warning for taboos. Teenagers drink and have sex, and then "pay the price" by being killed by a guy in a mask. The clever virgin is the only one to make it out, obviously. But I think it's gotten to the point where nobody really tries, or cares, about saying anything. Cabin in the Woods, the new Texas Chainsaw, the Evil Dead remake... hell, even the original Evil Dead... they're just pure exploitation. There's no real message there, but IMO, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Now real life kill videos... yeah, those are disturbing. And that's something totally different. The thing about movies vs. real life is, movies can show disturbing stuff but still have an important message. Real life... if something's bad it's bad, and there's really no getting around that. A video of a hobo dying while people ignore him has nothing positive to say. There's nothing you could get out of that. But a movie exploring the topic could be meaningful.

Hostel, Hostel 2, and Wolf Creek are easily 3 of my all time favorite movies.

It's easy to say they're pure exploitation or have nothing to say, but tehn again, if you want to, you can easily read a whoile bunch of different things into them - there's no need to, IMO, though.

Movie are entertainment, pure and simple.  Many don't need a message, theme, or deep meaning, whioch may or may not actually even be there.

True. Something I sort of dislike about literature analysis -- sometimes there isn't a message, but people make up their own meanings for things. Sometimes things are exactly the way they seem. The curtains are blue because they're blue, not to represent the sadness of the protagonist's mother or something.

I don't worry about themes in my own work. I've never make a conscious effort to write a specific theme, since they usually come naturally anyway. I heard Wes Anderson does that.

I need to see Hostel sometime.

Quoted from crookedowl True. Something I sort of dislike about literature analysis -- sometimes there isn't a message, but people make up their own meanings for things. Sometimes things are exactly the way they seem. The curtains are blue because they're blue, not to represent the sadness of the protagonist's mother or something. I don't worry about themes in my own work. I've never make a conscious effort to write a specific theme, since they usually come naturally anyway. I heard Wes Anderson does that. I need to see Hostel sometime.

I agre completely with everything you said here, Owl.

And yes, you need to see both Hostel and Hostel 2.  For what they are, they're the pinnacle...easily.  They're not meant to appeal to the masses, but if you like what they're about, you'll love them.  They work on a level that's truly hard to accomplish.

I remember you bringing up those points before, Dreamscale (and nice to see you again), and still consider them completely valid. You back yourself up with your particular point-of-view - you bring a very real and understandable side of the market to light in your opinions of it, as both a viewer and a creator - you are not at all alone in your thinking, but representative of an entire segment of the population who see things in a very similar light.

One thing you're talking about, I think, is people's psychological projection onto things that aren't there, and that's absolutely true. It's very different, however, when something is blatantly quoted and referenced in one work to another, such as in the specifically cited works of Nietzsche passed into Lovecraft passed into many other things - and simply looking into interviews from later creators often confirms these realizations. Sometimes, indeed, they discredit them.

And Nihilism IS a message. Sometimes, saying life has no message IS still a message. Or the message. Sometimes, having no point is the point, and so such logic always twists around on itself. Maybe, that's why some deep part of me actually likes your way of just saying, "Forget it, enjoy the movie!"

For my own part, I find that seeking it greatly improves my own ability to get those creative gears turning.

Granting this, there are other segments who feel like some of the most successful filmmakers and writer's of all time still inject some message, even if hidden and personal, into their work in order for like-minded people (since how many writers are lonely souls looking to reach out anything to anyone?) to be able to uncover and relate to. Or maybe they look to change things up in the world and find no other way of doing it than the subtle. Or maybe that's just how sometimes ideas are pulled out of the ether and then reassembled into something more manageable that is ultimately for entertainment value.

On Evil Dead: You could be right, but on a totally message-free side note - That's a directly, 100% Lovecraft inspired movie. Lovecraft is the writer who FIRST created and brought into our entertainment consciousness the Necronomicon... That was all H.P.'s idea, 1920's-30's, and though it has been taken and re-used often (some people even believe it is a real book that actually exists), H.P. Lovecraft invented the Necronomicon out of thin air, and H.P. Lovecraft was an ardent follower of Friedrich Nietzsche's... so I stand by my saying, sometimes the hidden message is simply a philosophy of nihilism, which is a codified and known thought-system, but that such messages can often be markedly deep.... even in what appears shallow... even if subconsciously projected out of thin-air by the writer/viewer's life experience. Again, in something like Fight Club, when in film/book, both, it directly quotes the man, then the connection is obviously obvious - not projected.  

I, myself, am like one of those Lovecraft types. I haven't spoken to a single person apart from the odd fellow down at the convenience store, 1am-3am usually, irregularly, for MONTHS. And that's not uncommon for me, at all. I may never go back among people too far. Ever again in my life. However, what calls like an incessant buzzing always in the back of my brain is the idea that some communication with the outside world must be achieved before I die. I've already almost died more times than I can count.

I would RATHER die flat-out, right at this very instant, than not place a message in what I leave behind to this world. In a personal way, I cannot understand those who would not... and in my investigations of at least some writers (and often, my own favorites) they shared in much of this same lifestyle and mindset as my own. For me, that gives me nothing but confidence that some messages can be left successfully, and passed down far through time to other minds... some of whom might be saved by certain themes and learned morals. In a way, it touches on the beginnings of storytelling, where human survival/history-keeping/educational/social-development/etc depended solely on the moral of the story.  

For sure, your best point is that they don't HAVE to be so. They don't have to be made so, or looked at so... it's just that, on occasion they are. And I find that interesting.

Going back to the spacing issues, Crooked, I looked into my version of FinalDraft Pro 7 and the spacing is indeed set to 1.   Just 1    so I'm looking into how/why that may have changed or been affected by the pdf format, or what I can do to make sure the pdf matches the original settings. It's getting somewhat technical for me, but I'm working at is almost as I type this, and being such a mystery, I'll be sure to pass on any relevant technical information I might find...

Quoted from WillJonassen Going back to the spacing issues, Crooked, I looked into my version of FinalDraft Pro 7 and the spacing is indeed set to 1.   Just 1    so I'm looking into how/why that may have changed or been affected by the pdf format, or what I can do to make sure the pdf matches the original settings. It's getting somewhat technical for me, but I'm working at is almost as I type this, and being such a mystery, I'll be sure to pass on any relevant technical information I might find...

You might want to check the leading and make sure it's set to "regular" and not "loose".

Believe it or not, it's actually set to regular...  Maybe I should try "Tight?"  


I'll say this on Hostel... it's utterly terrifying. When it comes to working what they're about, for sure with what Dreamscale said, they do just what they set out to do and then some. You'll f-ing piss yourself. I am right now just thinking about it...

That could work...

I don't know why it's doing that. It's weird.

I feel like it has to be something to do with my Adobe reader settings, where I transfer it to pdf., perhaps, or something to do with the way I'm storing/importing or whatever kids are calling it these days... but I would never have known what was being carried over into here, as a result, without that keen observation. So SOMETHING is going on... I'll keep working at it.


I missed the slasher-film thing... they vary. Freddy, a monster who can take many forms and attack you in your dreams is based on "Nyarlathotep" and "Cthulhu" stories by H.P. Lovecraft. Jason, an unkillable juggernaut who comes from the water, some mysterious force passed down in his bloodline from a decrepit and degenerating evilness isolated in the backwoods, is based on "Dagon" stories by H.P. Lovecraft. Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the naive group coming upon psychotic degenerates without any rhyme or reason to their being, too, based on... I don't know which specific elder god's cantos (there are many)... but certainly Necronomicon stories that relate the exact same order of events almost exactly, scene by scene... House of 1,000 Corpses even more so, with that Doctor thing underground and influencing all of the evil events (perhaps there is some "Re-Animator" in there, and re-animator itself is one of the few actual lovecraft tales just directly made). It was Lovecraft's goal, too, to humble the shallow but egotistical masses.

The corrupt definitely go down, and the know-it-all's don't know it all's.

I think, one of the very few subgenres within horror that is not part of the direct lineage of H.P. Lovecraft is that of the Zombie movie... those were a creature and had a way of being actually very original to Night of the Living Dead and all their ilk. The other exceptions are, of course, those that connect with more ancient myth and legend like the werewolf/vampire types, or anything of a similar tradition. Still others, are the snuff-film types that are human vs. human, not supernatural, and much more contemporary - a number of which were earlier mentioned and perhaps original in their want to break away to something new.

The Thing was based on "At the Mountains of Madness," by H.P. Lovecraft, almost a complete rip-off (still brilliantly shot and characterized as an homage), but I assure you, "At the Mountains of Madness" is SO much more... freaking AWESOME. It's incredible. Alien? Those are based off of the Night Gaunts of multiple Lovecraft stories, particularly in "Dreamquest to Unknown Kadath." Every single Stephen King work was at least inspired by if not related to Lovecraft, too, as on the back of the Necronomicon there is actually a quote from King in gold letters, "Lovecraft opened the way for me, as he opened the way for others before me." I could go on and on and on.... if you don't already know these things, of course.

And these are all documented connections, not projections or speculations. Most can be verified in his biographies, or in interviews from later horror masters.

The problem is: H.P. Lovecraft stories are themselves so epic and huge in scope, that it would take a budget and technology beyond, way way beyond, even that of something like Avatar to even come close to making them. It's thought that a true version of "At the Mountains of Madness" would cost as much $200 million or more, and anything less would not capture the story. Cthulhu the same. Most of his best... just way out of sight, and so his devoted following can only really pay homage or take inspiration.

The point being: If you have never read an H.P. Lovecraft story.... DO THAT... Go buy the "Necronomicon Collection" and "The Eldritch Tales" at the store RIGHT NOW, lol, and get that in your life immediately. You will not be sorry, at all, especially if you enjoy the art of the short-story.

  

Oh yeah, I'm sure there's some mythology behind many slashers. But sometimes I'm not sure it was really intentional... like in the case of Jason. The writer, Victor Miller, was inspired after seeing Halloween. And if I remember correctly, Freddy Kruger was based on various news articles and a stranger Wes Craven saw out his window one night when he was a kid. Same for Texas Chain Saw... Leatherface was based on stories Tobe Hooper's grandparents told him about real life cannibal Ed Gein. (Funny thing, some actually say TCM is a social commentary. It's a black comedy for sure, but I don't really know what part of society it's really commenting on.)

But yes, you could definitely interpret them as drawing influence from literature. It can make them more interesting for sure. But I don't know if the creators really had Lovecraft in mind when they were writing. And if they didn't, is it even correct or worthwhile to analyze them as such? I really don't know. I think some films don't set out to say anything, and that's okay.