Stories of the Subconscience Mind by Curt Dennis - Horror - After a failed suicide attempt, a depressed young man visits a psychiatrist who can enter people's subconscious mind. 102 pages

based on the  short - pdf format

Writer interested in feedback on this work

Thanks for posting! If anyone is interested, it's based off of my short film of the same name (posted here last year with a trailer- https://youtu.be/s9sMwK4S8uc- that's only 1 minute instead of 10)

I gave the short a watch and quite enjoyed it! Very well made and intriguing. I'm curious to see how you expanded it into a feature. I'm a bit busy right now, so I don't know if I'll get a chance to read the script soon. But when I do, I'll give you feedback!

Quoted from OscarM I gave the short a watch and quite enjoyed it! Very well made and intriguing. I'm curious to see how you expanded it into a feature. I'm a bit busy right now, so I don't know if I'll get a chance to read the script soon. But when I do, I'll give you feedback!

Thank you Oscar! I'm happy to hear you liked it

For the feature, I would recommend this link instead (until it's updated above). I got some feedback already on that version and... fixed a few things... https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iK0bXQ6TE5fYJ9DeSFY8CKBHOus3Wmy1

Curt: I read 30 pages.

I like the premise - but I have issues:

1) So, I'm in what would be a half hour of the movie and I don't know anything about Alice other that that she is a shrink with special talents. I don't know her home life, her motivations, her status - nothing. I think it is a mistake to follow a counseling session with another counseling session rather than using the space to fill in Alice's background.

2) I don't buy the method - she hypnotizes people (like in a flash - unrealistic) and then is somehow inside their mind.

3) I don't buy the confidentiality agreements - so, she has this unique almost magical power that she painfully details to her patients and they sign an agreement that they won't tell anyone. Two problems - (1) they would tell everyone (2) you never explain why it needs to be confidential. If she has a magical cure for disorders she wants to keep it secret because?????

Maybe she doesn't actually tell the patients that she has this power - that would save you a whole lot of logic hurdles.

It is confusing when you are going from real world to hypnotic world. There's nothing in the headers to give us guidance in that regard. I had a similar challenge with a thriller I wrote where the scenes bounced between present day and Virtual Reality. I did something like this:

MASTER BEDROOM - DAY

Marquis enters, grabs the VR gear from his dresser and heads
back out. After a moment he’s back in the

GARAGE

Pressing the door remote button. As the garage door lowers,
Marquis taps the Dark World icon on his smartphone, inserts
it in the VR headset.

Marquis slips on the VR gloves, straps on the headset.

VIRTUAL REALITY - DARK WORLD

A silver HUMAN SKULL spins against a black background.
The only sound - the methodical, THUD of heavy boots.

The RATTLE of a chain as the Skull disappears and the
silhouette of a WINGED FIGURE takes form.

For your story, maybe something like this:

Quoted Text INT. PSYCHIATRIST'S OFFICE - DAY Carter breathes steadily as him and Alice sit in a sleeping state, both with their hands on the plush toy. EXT. ABANDONED HOME - NIGHT Alice slows her run to a walk as she approaches the buildingit's an abandoned home.

Would be clearer as something like:

INT. PSYCHIATRIST'S OFFICE - DAY

Carter breathes steadily as him and Alice sit in a sleeping
state, both with their hands on the plush toy.

INSIDE CARTER'S MIND - OUTSIDE AN ABANDONED HOME - NIGHT

Alice slows her run to a walk as she approaches the building.

Anyway - I do think the premise is interesting - but the story was not developing in a way that held my interest - hope that makes sense.

Quoted from Curt Thank you Oscar! I'm happy to hear you liked it For the feature, I would recommend this link instead (until it's updated above). I got some feedback already on that version and... fixed a few things... https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iK0bXQ6TE5fYJ9DeSFY8CKBHOus3Wmy1

You're welcome and thanks! I'll read that one then!

Quoted from eldave1 Curt: I read 30 pages. I like the premise - but I have issues: 1) So, I'm in what would be a half hour of the movie and I don't know anything about Alice other that that she is a shrink with special talents. I don't know her home life, her motivations, her status - nothing. I think it is a mistake to follow a counseling session with another counseling session rather than using the space to fill in Alice's background. 2) I don't buy the method - she hypnotizes people (like in a flash - unrealistic) and then is somehow inside their mind. 3) I don't buy the confidentiality agreements - so, she has this unique almost magical power that she painfully details to her patients and they sign an agreement that they won't tell anyone. Two problems - (1) they would tell everyone (2) you never explain why it needs to be confidential. If she has a magical cure for disorders she wants to keep it secret because????? Maybe she doesn't actually tell the patients that she has this power - that would save you a whole lot of logic hurdles. It is confusing when you are going from real world to hypnotic world. There's nothing in the headers to give us guidance in that regard. I had a similar challenge with a thriller I wrote where the scenes bounced between present day and Virtual Reality. I did something like this: MASTER BEDROOM - DAY Marquis enters, grabs the VR gear from his dresser and heads back out. After a moment he’s back in the GARAGE Pressing the door remote button. As the garage door lowers, Marquis taps the Dark World icon on his smartphone, inserts it in the VR headset. Marquis slips on the VR gloves, straps on the headset. VIRTUAL REALITY - DARK WORLD A silver HUMAN SKULL spins against a black background. The only sound - the methodical, THUD of heavy boots. The RATTLE of a chain as the Skull disappears and the silhouette of a WINGED FIGURE takes form. For your story, maybe something like this: Would be clearer as something like: INT. PSYCHIATRIST'S OFFICE - DAY Carter breathes steadily as him and Alice sit in a sleeping state, both with their hands on the plush toy. INSIDE CARTER'S MIND - OUTSIDE AN ABANDONED HOME - NIGHT Alice slows her run to a walk as she approaches the building. Anyway - I do think the premise is interesting - but the story was not developing in a way that held my interest - hope that makes sense.

Thanks for reading! Can I ask why only 30 pages though? Not in a confrontational way- my past couple scripts, every bit of feedback has started with "I only read x amount of pages", and my writing is the common denominator so... In fact, I think the only feature I've had strangers read all the way through was one where I omitted the letter E.

Anyways, about your notes, I think you read the top version rather than the updated version in my reply above (which how would you know that anyways?). The reason is I've been told by a LOT of people that they were confused about who the protagonist is. It's Carter, not Alice. But the 97-page one doesn't feel like that when the first freakin' 10 minutes are just Alice and we don't hit Carter's life until 30 pages in.

The updated one starts with Carter killing himself. If that helps.

I've also been given the note about the method, so I took a playbook from the Matrix and put a seven minute explanation before Carter's first trip. I think it helps him buy it more, and helps the audience as well since, while cool, it still needs to be realistic as far as mental health protocols are concerned. Which is the confidentiality part.

I haven't heard about that header idea though. That ones new... I like that idea. Thanks for the notes and ideas. I hope I already managed to hit some of the points with my rewrite, though I know I didn't hit all. Especially the header idea to make it less confusing!

Curt, just a heads up:

Carter breathes steadily as him and Alice sit in a sleeping
state, both with their hands on the plush toy.

Colloquially we say all sorts of things, but this is not dialogue, so...

This should be written as:  he and Alice sit.
Nominative pronouns/object/subject.

Handy links:
https://grammargoddess.com/pronouns/
https://www.quickanddirtytips......being%20acted%20upon.

Quoted from Curt Thanks for reading! Can I ask why only 30 pages though? Not in a confrontational way- my past couple scripts, every bit of feedback has started with "I only read x amount of pages", and my writing is the common denominator so... In fact, I think the only feature I've had strangers read all the way through was one where I omitted the letter E.

Hi Curt - don't read too much into reviewers stopping partway through a read. Bear in mind that reading an entire feature is time-consuming, and readers here are doing it in their spare time and for free. Personally I would say that Dave making it to page 30 is a good thing... Most features I open I bail on the first page.
Some readers may start a script with no intention of reading the whole thing, I know I do. The purpose is to just get a glimpse of the writing and story to see if I can help in anyway. Some find the story is just not to their taste, there are many reasons why readers might bail....

Anyway, at the bottom of Dave's post, he says the story was not developing enough to hold his interest - that may be a clue to why he bailed and so you could look at the point he stopped reading and see if the story slumps a little there.

This is on my radar to read.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Hi Curt - don't read too much into reviewers stopping partway through a read. Bear in mind that reading an entire feature is time-consuming, and readers here are doing it in their spare time and for free. Personally I would say that Dave making it to page 30 is a good thing... Most features I open I bail on the first page. Some readers may start a script with no intention of reading the whole thing, I know I do. The purpose is to just get a glimpse of the writing and story to see if I can help in anyway. Some find the story is just not to their taste, there are many reasons why readers might bail.... Anyway, at the bottom of Dave's post, he says the story was not developing enough to hold his interest - that may be a clue to why he bailed and so you could look at the point he stopped reading and see if the story slumps a little there. This is on my radar to read.

Thanks for the heads up. I guess I'm just a little bit like... it's very hard to use feedback when the feedback gets answered 5 pages from when the person stopped. Some stuff is usable (like tightening up my grammar and flow and using headers, btw thanks LC for the grammar tip!) but I'm more interested in story tbh. As we all probably do, I just get mad tunnel vision.

Though they did stop right when the story sort of starts. Fortunately, everyone has flagged this issue of a confusing start and I changed it. So the real version now starts with someone attempting suicide. That's the hint haha.

Quoted from Curt Thanks for the heads up. I guess I'm just a little bit like... it's very hard to use feedback when the feedback gets answered 5 pages from when the person stopped. Some stuff is usable (like tightening up my grammar and flow and using headers, btw thanks LC for the grammar tip!) but I'm more interested in story tbh. As we all probably do, I just get mad tunnel vision. Though they did stop right when the story sort of starts. Fortunately, everyone has flagged this issue of a confusing start and I changed it. So the real version now starts with someone attempting suicide. That's the hint haha.

Curt:

I would never ask someone why they didn't read more. It's like if someone comes over and cleans your bathroom and you say - any reason you didn't clean the whole house??? It's just poor form.

Simply thank them for what they did read and respond to their comments.  As an example, if the answer to a question appears five pages later - I'd respond with simply what the answer was.

I could have simply stopped reading because that was all the time I had available. In this case I stopped because I lost interest - I think I mentioned that already. Carter was not compelling to me nor did I find the method of entering the mind believable. NOW - that is just my opinion. Others may find it brilliant.

Last thought - Free feedback, regardless of whether it is one page - a title - a logline - or the entire feature is free. No one is paid to read here. And as a note - you've been hear for 18 months now - how many free reads - i.e., no reciprocation - have you done? I see your total comments are 20 so I'm suspecting - not much.  Not trying to be an arse - but getting a comment from you on I didn't read more as a bit off putting when it comes from someone who is averaging less than two posts a month.  

Quoted from eldave1 Curt: I would never ask someone why they didn't read more. It's like if someone comes over and cleans your bathroom and you say - any reason you didn't clean the whole house??? It's just poor form. Simply thank them for what they did read and respond to their comments.  As an example, if the answer to a question appears five pages later - I'd respond with simply what the answer was. I could have simply stopped reading because that was all the time I had available. In this case I stopped because I lost interest - I think I mentioned that already. Carter was not compelling to me nor did I find the method of entering the mind believable. NOW - that is just my opinion. Others may find it brilliant. Last thought - Free feedback, regardless of whether it is one page - a title - a logline - or the entire feature is free. No one is paid to read here. And as a note - you've been hear for 18 months now - how many free reads - i.e., no reciprocation - have you done? I see your total comments are 20 so I'm suspecting - not much.  Not trying to be an arse - but getting a comment from you on I didn't read more as a bit off putting when it comes from someone who is averaging less than two posts a month.

Hi eldave,

I was not aware of that feeling towards critique. My goal isn't to get praise- it's to grow as a storyteller. And that question was a means to critique my own skills rather than your free time. I'm sorry you took it personally. I just want to do my best to get as much out of each critique as the reader put into it.

I also did answer your points though- they were things people have brought up in the past. I then changed them because, well, like I said, I try to get all I can out of each critique. And I can confidently say that fixing the things you flagged made for a stronger script.

And you're right. I made an account here two years ago. During that time, I had a handful of tutors whose job it was to read and critique my shitty scripts, so I utilised them instead of asking for free time from others because my writing wasn't worth anyones free time anyways. That was the last two years.  

But I've gotten feedback on 2 features and critiqued 1 if numbers are that important. I put up some short films as well that were already in pre-production. I did get notes, yes, but I find those "script-to-screen" pages invaluable and thought others might benefit from reading a 5 page script here and then watching it.

And, as I said previously, thank you for reading what you did and providing comments.

Quoted from Curt Hi eldave, I was not aware of that feeling towards critique. My goal isn't to get praise- it's to grow as a storyteller. And that question was a means to critique my own skills rather than your free time. I'm sorry you took it personally. I just want to do my best to get as much out of each critique as the reader put into it. I also did answer your points though- they were things people have brought up in the past. I then changed them because, well, like I said, I try to get all I can out of each critique. And I can confidently say that fixing the things you flagged made for a stronger script. And you're right. I made an account here two years ago. During that time, I had a handful of tutors whose job it was to read and critique my shitty scripts, so I utilised them instead of asking for free time from others because my writing wasn't worth anyones free time anyways. That was the last two years.   But I've gotten feedback on 2 features and critiqued 1 if numbers are that important. I put up some short films as well that were already in pre-production. I did get notes, yes, but I find those "script-to-screen" pages invaluable and thought others might benefit from reading a 5 page script here and then watching it. And, as I said previously, thank you for reading what you did and providing comments.

All good

Curt,

I read your script.

I think the story here is Alice.  Have you considered making her the protag? Carter the bad guy?  Maybe Alice spends her time with criminals suspected of heinous crimes.  The police use her talents to find clues or outright confessions inside that person's mind.  

Carter comes into the picture.  In a comma from a suicide attempt.  A mysterious person approaches Alice asking her to go to his hospital room and see what secrets he's hiding.   She declines at first, but learns of something and goes does it. When she gets in his mind. Carter is different.  He knows she's there and can communicate with her.   He can actually harm her.  She quits and leaves the hospital room.  She tells the mysterious person she didn't see anything when in reality she did. Next day she goes back and he's gone, etc...

Just throwing that idea out there.
  
All the best man!

Quoted from Kevin_L Curt, I read your script. I think the story here is Alice.  Have you considered making her the protag? Carter the bad guy?  Maybe Alice spends her time with criminals suspected of heinous crimes.  The police use her talents to find clues or outright confessions inside that person's mind.   Carter comes into the picture.  In a comma from a suicide attempt.  A mysterious person approaches Alice asking her to go to his hospital room and see what secrets he's hiding.   She declines at first, but learns of something and goes does it. When she gets in his mind. Carter is different.  He knows she's there and can communicate with her.   He can actually harm her.  She quits and leaves the hospital room.  She tells the mysterious person she didn't see anything when in reality she did. Next day she goes back and he's gone, etc... Just throwing that idea out there.    All the best man!

Thanks Kevin!

Funnily enough, the very first draft of this Alice was the protagonist. But all my tutors were confused at what was going on, so I decided to save her story for another time...

Your tutors?  Like in the classic 80's movie, My Tutor"

Hi Curt, I've been reading.

This is listed as horror but there's not a lot of horror going on.

OK so I have a few issues with the story - take from it what you will.

My biggest issue is probably Carter. Why him? why, out of all of Alice's patients are we hearing his story?
For me, he isn't interesting or unique enough to be the subject matter - she must have far more interesting patients that could take the limelight.

I'm not entirely sure why he is suicidal - maybe that's the point, I've never been suicidal or depressed so I don't know - His opening suicide message is confusing.

Quoted Text Me being alive is just… a stress on everyone's life. I have no one. No friends. No family. No one cares about me

Seems like a contradiction to me - who is the "everyone" he is referring to if he also believes he has no one?
His friends and family don't seem overly bad, not as bad as Carter is making out - maybe that is by design - Clinical depression isn't logical or reasonable - But there is something lacking that is making me empathic towards him - right now, I'm not invested enough in his struggle.

My other issue is conflict - conflict drives the story - and the first Act is distinctly lacking it. He is nice to his friends and they are reasonably nice to him. He has a great relationship with his therapist which he goes to willingly enough - he also happily accepts that he has to see a psychiatrist and when presented with a strange and invasive procedure, he welcomes it with a "sure, hop into my mind"
It's all a little dull - I would expect him and want to see him, resist.

I really like the premise - it's a perfect set up for creating conflict, horror and drama, but it's not utilised efficiently IMHO.

The writing itself isn't bad - If I can read a script and completely focus on story instead of the writing, that's a good thing. You can deffo tighten things up though and some of the visuals aren't clear - below is a good example.

Quoted Text Alice wakes up in the middle of two-way road. There's an eerie lack of people, of birds, of insects, of life. Except the plants, of which there's too many- vines overtaking trees and weeds cracking through the asphalt and foliage hugging the road. All of this sits underneath a heavy, heavy layer of fog. It's vast. Empty. Overgrown. Devoid of life.

I had several issues with this when reading:
Fog - This looks tacked on as an afterthought and not organically included in the description. And also links into my second point...
Order - O-n screen, the first thing we notice is the thick fog not the lack of people or animals, but you have included it after the other descriptions. Imagine the movie is playing in your mind and you are describing it as it's happening.
Why tell me? - Only include what is needed, why do we care it's a two way road?
Why tell me twice? - You have mentioned twice that it's overgrown and devoid of life.
Contradictions - Clear and concise please, can this place be both "Empty" and "overgrown"? Can't tell if I'm seeing a jungle or a desert.

Quoted Text Alice jolts awake, takes in her surroundings. Just visible through a thick fog are large wethered trees engulfed in vines. untamed weeds poke through the road they have reclaimed. Alice's thudding heartbeat the only thing breaking the silence. Nothing moves, no animals or wind in the trees... just Alice, alone.

Here is my very quick, potentially awful example lol - The point of which is to make it a concise and easy read.

The story hasn't interested me enough to read to the end although I think with some more conflict and Character depth, I would probably watch.

Best of luck with it

@dreamscale Haha, I'm at a British school. Tutors and tea.

@matthewtaylor I think you're hinting at something that I've been struggling with, which is the POV. So when you're depressed, you can interpret good friends and loving parents as huge negatives because your mind is, well, empty, foggy, full of bad and lacking in good.

But it sounds like I'm not writing it within Carter's POV enough. To give you an example, when people are getting into groups in class, I tried to make it feel like an eternity for him via watching the clock. Then I tried to make him feel isolated by having him on the outskirts of the group.

But the POV is too much from the outside still. Does that make sense? I think that's at the heart of what you're saying, since if it was more from his POV it would, in theory, be an incredibly tense read from the get-go since everything would be a conflict. It would also make every situation a horror situation since we know he's capable of suicide.

Quoted from Curt @dreamscale Haha, I'm at a British school. Tutors and tea. @matthewtaylor I think you're hinting at something that I've been struggling with, which is the POV. So when you're depressed, you can interpret good friends and loving parents as huge negatives because your mind is, well, empty, foggy, full of bad and lacking in good. But it sounds like I'm not writing it within Carter's POV enough. To give you an example, when people are getting into groups in class, I tried to make it feel like an eternity for him via watching the clock. Then I tried to make him feel isolated by having him on the outskirts of the group. But the POV is too much from the outside still. Does that make sense? I think that's at the heart of what you're saying, since if it was more from his POV it would, in theory, be an incredibly tense read from the get-go since everything would be a conflict. It would also make every situation a horror situation since we know he's capable of suicide.

Yes makes perfect sense - We are watching from the outside in, so can't get into his headspace. Writing from the inside out, as you say, to give us more of a feel for him and what he is going through sounds like a good idea.... also sounds difficult to do, but good stories are not easy lol

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Yes makes perfect sense - We are watching from the outside in, so can't get into his headspace. Writing from the inside out, as you say, to give us more of a feel for him and what he is going through sounds like a good idea.... also sounds difficult to do, but good stories are not easy lol

Difficult for sure, but I think I have ways to at least start it. Like in class when they're talking, don't go into their conversation. Stay with Carter and the clock.

Thanks for the feedback!