Yeah, I've seen villains... it's a similar SUB plot. But you can say the same for Don't Breathe, Monster Party and other movies. Not sure what you mean by he should be calm on the surface? When we're introduced to the guy, we're only seeing one side of him, though I try to give subtle hints rather than banging you over the head, screaming at you "He's capable of mass murder!" Just little things like gripping the steering wheel tight when he sees his son's bullies, grabbing Stella's wrist at the diner, a moment where he's staring down Chad, the manager, like he's going to kill the guy, his criminal record, his speech to his son about "Don't be like me, control your anger no matter what that voice in your head tells you what to do", him going autopilot when retrieving his gun from his pick-up truck and unleashing a hail of bullets while stalking Stella.... all the bread crumbs and tell tale signs are there.

But I'm not trying to be too obvious with it. You're not really supposed to suspect of him of killing a bunch of people, that gives away the twist completely.

Perhaps I should have Buford have somewhat of an outburst, but the same thing can be accomplished with a menacing score... which, unfortunately I cannot include in a script. I did try to give those little subtle moments time to breathe as to draw attention to it... but not too much attention.

Michael

You'll have gotten a pretty good idea of how I feel about the script in my page by page notes. Generally speaking, and apologies if I repeat myself...



Spoilers ahead




This starts with the foot to the floor and pretty much continues in that vein throughout...with some occasional breathers for pathos It's very sharply written, very violent (and increasingly so as we go on) with twists aplenty to keep us engaged. The first 40 pages or so are masterful in setting up the characters, the story, the motivations (which become eventually clear) along with a misdirection or two to throw us off.

When it is revealed you have a rather ingenious scenario of our sympathies shifting amid two crazed people stalking each other around a house, and that's just the first 40 pages...before another big reveal is dropped. I defy anyone not to be along for the ride at this point. It really is expertly paced, structured and executed.

Unfortunately however, like most films when it shows its hand, or relies on a big question at it centre, it becomes significantly less interesting post reveal. The last half felt like one long fight scene. A finely written fight scene but a protracted fight scene nonetheless. Gone is the suspense, the character moments, the surprises, in favour of stabbing, shooting, axing, hammering and generally beating the shit out of one another. It became exhausting, punishing, repetitious. Of course, people's mileage will vary, and given the propensity of action films, especially superhero films, to become very crashy bashy in their last act, I would say my mileage is lower than most. Just not my thing.

I wondered would the second half benefit from opening it out a bit, getting out of the house. On the other hand, I appreciate you are thinking about the budget and wanting to  keep it contained. That too has its merits. I just felt that as one fight transitioned into the next, it became wearisome...and now I'm repeating myself.

Also, the second major reveal concerning Buford and Gertrude's secret "business" felt a little thrown in just to to serve as a twist and to get really dark. Is it that easy to hop on the dark web and sell people like that? Maybe I'm being too naive but I think that it would take, at least, a very computer savvy person to ensure privacy and anonymity, while making sure the person on the other end was legit (I use that term ironically within the context of the deal) I imagine it's a more complicated procedure than kidnapping someone and then broadcasting it online that he/she is for sale. I don't know, not my area of expertise. Of course, I don't expect you to go step-by-step through the process and we can assume Buford and Gertrude have already done the ground work, have their contacts established, I was just curious how you would even begin to get into this racket. Plus, and this really was the bigger sticking point, is that it just felt too depraved and sadistic for Buford and Gertrude. I mean, they seemed like alright people who have fallen on hard times. Yes, Buford has a very violent temper, Gertrude appears a little simple but to kidnap and sell people like that requires a different type of calculated evil (then say a killing spree committed in a fit of rage) that I didn't see in those characters otherwise. It seemed too extreme, ill-fitting. I don't know, maybe I'm being too generous to them.  

To your credit though, you keep things tight at 93 pages, it doesn't outstay its welcome. I also enjoyed the epilogue. Another aspect you navigated well was the balance of humour and drama. There were times I thought it ran the risk of becoming too tongue-in-cheek (Dick Hardley?) but you reined it in just the right amount...except that one moment I flagged up in my page-by-page notes. Some of the more gruesome moments I could do without. They came off as merely shock tactics, a little over the top, to garner a reaction. I see you've posted this in the horror section so maybe you are trying to earn that genre classification as it felt much more like a drama/thriller.

Anyway, overall, I dug this, an easy, entertaining read that kept me hooked especially during its first half. Have you tried to shop it around anywhere...or is that even a thing anymore during these Covid-times?

Col.

Hey Gerard, thanks for taking a look at this!

Quoted Text Michael You'll have gotten a pretty good idea of how I feel about the script in my page by page notes. Generally speaking, and apologies if I repeat myself...

Haven't gotten a chance just yet, but I will take a look at them soon. Really appreciate it!

Quoted Text This starts with the foot to the floor and pretty much continues in that vein throughout...with some occasional breathers for pathos  It's very sharply written, very violent (and increasingly so as we go on) with twists aplenty to keep us engaged. The first 40 pages or so are masterful in setting up the characters, the story, the motivations (which become eventually clear) along with a misdirection or two to throw us off. When it is revealed you have a rather ingenious scenario of our sympathies shifting amid two crazed people stalking each other around a house, and that's just the first 40 pages...before another big reveal is dropped. I defy anyone not to be along for the ride at this point. It really is expertly paced, structured and executed.

Thanks man, far too kind.

Quoted Text Unfortunately however, like most films when it shows its hand, or relies on a big question at it centre, it becomes significantly less interesting post reveal. The last half felt like one long fight scene. A finely written fight scene but a protracted fight scene nonetheless. Gone is the suspense, the character moments, the surprises, in favour of stabbing, shooting, axing, hammering and generally beating the shit out of one another. It became exhausting, punishing, repetitious. Of course, people's mileage will vary, and given the propensity of action films, especially superhero films, to become very crashy bashy in their last act, I would say my mileage is lower than most. Just not my thing.

Yeah, I didn't think it'd be quite your thing lol. Guess I was trying to deliver the goods to the intended horror audience... in particular the gore fanatics. But, I tried to make it earned (through the character building earlier). I can see how it may get exhausting, though.

Quoted Text I wondered would the second half benefit from opening it out a bit, getting out of the house. On the other hand, I appreciate you are thinking about the budget and wanting to  keep it contained. That too has its merits. I just felt that as one fight transitioned into the next, it became wearisome...and now I'm repeating myself.

I wasn't really thinking TOO much about budget, but I know I wanted to do somewhat of a home invasion flick and it kinda just stayed at the one location.

Quoted Text Plus, and this really was the bigger sticking point, is that it just felt too depraved and sadistic for Buford and Gertrude. I mean, they seemed like alright people who have fallen on hard times. Yes, Buford has a very violent temper, Gertrude appears a little simple but to kidnap and sell people like that requires a different type of calculated evil (then say a killing spree committed in a fit of rage) that I didn't see in those characters otherwise. It seemed too extreme, ill-fitting. I don't know, maybe I'm being too generous to them.

Yeah, I've heard this from others. It's difficult to hide the twist without showing a kind side to the family whilst giving clues to their behavior without being too obvious. In the next draft, I'm working on that a little bit more...

Quoted Text To your credit though, you keep things tight at 93 pages, it doesn't outstay its welcome. I also enjoyed the epilogue. Another aspect you navigated well was the balance of humour and drama. There were times I thought it ran the risk of becoming too tongue-in-cheek (Dick Hardley?) but you reined it in just the right amount...except that one moment I flagged up in my page-by-page notes. Some of the more gruesome moments I could do without. They came off as merely shock tactics, a little over the top, to garner a reaction. I see you've posted this in the horror section so maybe you are trying to earn that genre classification as it felt much more like a drama/thriller.

Lol only a few people caught on to the names -- Dick Hardley and Blumpkin (google it). In earlier drafts, I wanted to acknowledge it but I thought it would be funnier for me, troll that I am, if I just played it straight like they were normal names without acknowledging how ridiculous they are. As for the drama/thriller, I guess I can see that. I tried setting the tone in the first few scenes, but I can see how one would classify that as thriller. One can probably say it's part action film, too, considering the violence of the late 2nd to 3rd acts. And, again with the gore, I really tried to earn those moments with solid character building and storytelling building up to the gore. And I tried making it feel deserved (in regards to the characters)

Quoted Text Anyway, overall, I dug this, an easy, entertaining read that kept me hooked especially during its first half. Have you tried to shop it around anywhere...or is that even a thing anymore during these Covid-times?

Fuck if I know, man. Haven't really shopped it around just yet, still working on drafts, trying to get it to where I want. I have pitched to a few actors but haven't received any responses just yet, though it wasn't too long ago.

Thanks again, man, I'm glad that you found it entertaining!

-- Michael

Quoted from spesh2k Yeah, I've seen villains... it's a similar SUB plot. But you can say the same for Don't Breathe, Monster Party and other movies. Not sure what you mean by he should be calm on the surface? When we're introduced to the guy, we're only seeing one side of him, though I try to give subtle hints rather than banging you over the head, screaming at you "He's capable of mass murder!" Just little things like gripping the steering wheel tight when he sees his son's bullies, grabbing Stella's wrist at the diner, a moment where he's staring down Chad, the manager, like he's going to kill the guy, his criminal record, his speech to his son about "Don't be like me, control your anger no matter what that voice in your head tells you what to do", him going autopilot when retrieving his gun from his pick-up truck and unleashing a hail of bullets while stalking Stella.... all the bread crumbs and tell tale signs are there. But I'm not trying to be too obvious with it. You're not really supposed to suspect of him of killing a bunch of people, that gives away the twist completely. Perhaps I should have Buford have somewhat of an outburst, but the same thing can be accomplished with a menacing score... which, unfortunately I cannot include in a script. I did try to give those little subtle moments time to breathe as to draw attention to it... but not too much attention.

a criminal attacks an even worse family of criminals. Mostly takes place in a house. And there's even a girl trapped in the basement. It's just like Villains. That's not a bad thing. I liked the movie.

And what I'm trying to say is, the guy killing tons of people in public doesn't make much sense. It's like he's trying to get caught. A good psychotic villain shouldn't be so prone to anger. He should hold it in, and kill people in private when the time is right and no one is around. Remember Gus Fring from Breaking Bad? He was kind of like that. Polite and gentle in public ...a vicious killer in private. That's a great villain. No one even suspects him of being a drug lord because he's calm.

Quoted Text a criminal attacks an even worse family of criminals. Mostly takes place in a house. And there's even a girl trapped in the basement. It's just like Villains. That's not a bad thing. I liked the movie.

Well, "Villains" wasn't exactly breaking new ground. Because you're pretty much saying I'M COPYING "Villains", which is far from true. But, since you're saying that, then you're saying "Villains" copied off "Don't Breathe" (which did it much better) and "Monster Party". And, if that's the case, then both movies copied off "The Collector", which did it 10 years before both movies came out. There's also "Breaking In", a less popular movie, "Better Watch Out" kinda does this, as does "You're Next"... and then there's movies that use a supernatural/paranormal element to the home invasion horror sub genre.

Quoted Text And what I'm trying to say is, the guy killing tons of people in public doesn't make much sense. It's like he's trying to get caught. A good psychotic villain shouldn't be so prone to anger. He should hold it in, and kill people in private when the time is right and no one is around. Remember Gus Fring from Breaking Bad? He was kind of like that. Polite and gentle in public ...a vicious killer in private. That's a great villain. No one even suspects him of being a drug lord because he's calm.

Yeah, I getcha... but a cunning, genius villain isn't quite what I was going for. In the next draft, I'm trying to make it more clear that his wife, Gertrude, is the one behind the human trafficking operation, Buford is just going along with it -- establishing Gertrude as more of the breadwinner, which further crushes Buford's ego. And Buford isn't a calculating serial killer... he's a mass murderer, yes. But serial killers are compulsive while Buford's crime was impulsive. An impulse that he wasn't able to control as he loses further control of his own life and the circumstances presented before him.

Michael

Quoted from spesh2k Yeah, I've heard this from others. It's difficult to hide the twist without showing a kind side to the family whilst giving clues to their behavior without being too obvious. In the next draft, I'm working on that a little bit more...

Yeah, striking a balance is the key in many facets of storytelling.

I think what you suggested in response to another member's comment below about making Gertrude more active in the people selling is a good idea. Buford is the lose canon, the liability who ultimately brings about their undoing. Right now, Gertrude is a bit passive and hard to read. As I noted, she doesn't even question or admonish Buford for what he done in the diner once she learns about it...or is the suggestions that she already knew? Did they have a conversation off screen in which Buford told her?

Either way, it could be a bone of contention between them as we go into the second half to add extra spice. She will of course side with her husband since family is so important to them but she can at least give him shit for bringing unwanted attention upon them...and, you know, killing innocent people

Actually Gertrude's reaction to learning what Buford has done will be an indicator of her true character and what she is capable of. We will expect her to be in shock, appalled, etc but if you do make her the boss of their selling people racket, her reaction will be markedly different. Self preservation will take priority. This will all come before we go down the basement and find out the real truth of what's going on.

Quoted from spesh2k only a few people caught on to the names -- Dick Hardley and Blumpkin (google it). In earlier drafts, I wanted to acknowledge it but I thought it would be funnier for me, troll that I am, if I just played it straight like they were normal names without acknowledging how ridiculous they are.

Haha, I had to Google "Blumpkin". I've fantasised about this...now I have a word for it. Cheers!

Col.

Quoted Text Yeah, striking a balance is the key in many facets of storytelling. I think what you suggested in response to another member's comment below about making Gertrude more active in the people selling is a good idea. Buford is the lose canon, the liability who ultimately brings about their undoing. Right now, Gertrude is a bit passive and hard to read. As I noted, she doesn't even question or admonish Buford for what he done in the diner once she learns about it...or is the suggestions that she already knew? Did they have a conversation off screen in which Buford told her?

That was the focus I'm most recent rewrite (not posting until next week). But yeah, it didn't take too much. Gertrude already is the one on the computer, closing the "deals". In the scene where the cops ring the door bell, when Buford asks "What the fuck are they doing here?" -- I have Gertrude say, "What do you think?" Then she kinda goes on to say how his temper got him in hot water before (the reason why he can't get a job to support the family). She mentions "all those programs, medications and anger management classes for nothing". And she also mentions, "I'm trying to run an operation so we can make some money and I can't do that if you keep acting crazy and giving the cops a reason to come by" -- paraphrasing the dialogue, but that's the gist. She even mentions, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" And shit like that. He then explains that they're looking for Stella and not him ala the news on TV.

Yeah, him explaining to her what happened would've been something that they discussed during Stella's black out, didn't wanna force exposition.

Quoted Text Either way, it could be a bone of contention between them as we go into the second half to add extra spice. She will of course side with her husband since family is so important to them but she can at least give him shit for bringing unwanted attention upon them...and, you know, killing innocent people Actually Gertrude's reaction to learning what Buford has done will be an indicator of her true character and what she is capable of. We will expect her to be in shock, appalled, etc but if you do make her the boss of their selling people racket, her reaction will be markedly different. Self preservation will take priority. This will all come before we go down the basement and find out the real truth of what's going on.

Exactly.

Quoted Text Haha, I had to Google "Blumpkin". I've fantasised about this...now I have a word for it. Cheers!

I didn't know what it was until I saw "Harold & Kumar" when it came out... 15 years ago? Christ, time flies.

Thanks again for checking this out! I did read your page by page notes, great stuff! Thanks!

-- Michael

Okay, this is the latest draft. Not gonna update the original post till next week, just in case I end up changing more (don't wanna keep having Don updating every 2 days). But, here, I changed some dialogue here and there, gave Stella a LITTLE more of a human/emotional side at the beginning. And I try to add a little conflict between husband and wife (Buford and Gertrude), making Gertrude the clear breadwinner and the brains behind the human trafficking operation. Meanwhile, Buford is the wildcard putting the operation in jeopardy.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3fCGwMw0lAJsGHxeOCkuh9Zx3og0z6U/view?usp=sharing

Michael – reads well. I think the changes landed.

Given where you are with this, all I really have are take it or leave it REALLY nitty comments.

Quoted Text PG 3. On all fours, Stella pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth.

I would consider moving this action forward to:

Stella considers it. But doesn’t grab the knife.

Instead, she pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth – examines it.

Smirking, Oscar turns, faces her.

I just thought it might work as an additional catalyst between not picking up the knife and stabbing him. HE might even say something akin to shame – you had such a pretty smile.

PG 11

Quoted Text She kisses him again. GERTRUDE   Good luck.

Kind of a throw-away line. I’d either delete it and end the scene at Buford nods or use it for slight foreshadowing. Something like:

GERTRUDE
You need to be at your best today.


Pg 25.

Quoted Text Stella continues to watch him leave. Her mind in a very, very dark place..

Thought the description was a little pedestrian for the mood – maybe something like – Stella’s eyes narrow as she watches him leave or Her jaw clenches as she….

PG 27

Quoted Text DEPUTY ROY (CONT’D) All signs point to his wife.

Wife struck me as odd – too generic – they know Stella. S/B something like “you think maybe Stella..?

Quoted Text PG 36 FEMALE NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) (from the television) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla with the plate number – PG 37 NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla...

Did you mean to repeat the exact line??? Seems to me that it should be picked up at license plate number on page 37.

PG 44

Quoted Text POP! The passenger’s side window explodes, shards of glass blasting into him.

POP or BANG? - It's a shotgun - ought to be at least a KABOOM

PG 47

Quoted Text BUFORD Newton’s window was open, I saw her inside. Confused, she shakes her head. GERTRUDE Are you sure?

I'd change the order slightly

BUFORD
I saw her inside.

Confused, she shakes her head.

GERTRUDE Are you sure?

BUFORD
Newton’s window was open.

Pg 90

Quoted Text Sheriff Hardley sits up, pulling his shirt open -- revealing a bullet proof vest. He possesses his .357 again -- BOOM-BOOM-BOOM! His hail of bullets sends Buford stumbling back, until dropping him

bullet proof - should be bullet-proof.

I'd also reverse the action here - have him check vest after shot.

Like I said - really nitty comments - reads great

Quoted Text Michael – reads well. I think the changes landed.

Hey, David, thanks for going round 2 on the rewrite, really appreciate your time!

Quoted Text Quoted Text PG 3. On all fours, Stella pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth. I would consider moving this action forward to: Stella considers it. But doesn’t grab the knife. Instead, she pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth – examines it. Smirking, Oscar turns, faces her. I just thought it might work as an additional catalyst between not picking up the knife and stabbing him. HE might even say something akin to shame – you had such a pretty smile.

Ah, that just may work. I like it.

PG 11

Quoted Text Quoted Text She kisses him again. GERTRUDE   Good luck. Kind of a throw-away line. I’d either delete it and end the scene at Buford nods or use it for slight foreshadowing. Something like: GERTRUDE You need to be at your best today.

Another great suggestion... thanks!

Quoted Text Pg 25. Quoted Text Stella continues to watch him leave. Her mind in a very, very dark place.. Thought the description was a little pedestrian for the mood – maybe something like – Stella’s eyes narrow as she watches him leave or Her jaw clenches as she….

Your suggestion certainly applies to the "write what we see as we see it" rule of thumb. I'm sure I can come up with something -- I do use the "jaw clenching" and "eyes narrowing" here and there already in the script. But I'm sure I can find a way to mix it up.

Quoted Text PG 27 Quoted Text DEPUTY ROY (CONT’D) All signs point to his wife. Wife struck me as odd – too generic – they know Stella. S/B something like “you think maybe Stella..?

Yeah, I can definitely mix it up a little bit, here, too. I think just the Sheriff saying "Stella."

Quoted Text Quoted Text PG 36 FEMALE NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) (from the television) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla with the plate number – PG 37 NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla... Did you mean to repeat the exact line??? Seems to me that it should be picked up at license plate number on page 37.

It was actually a flashback -- I probably don't need it since we just heard it the page before.

Quoted Text PG 44 Quoted Text POP! The passenger’s side window explodes, shards of glass blasting into him. POP or BANG? - It's a shotgun - ought to be at least a KABOOM

It wasn't a shotgun.

Quoted Text PG 47 Quoted Text BUFORD Newton’s window was open, I saw her inside. Confused, she shakes her head. GERTRUDE Are you sure? I'd change the order slightly BUFORD I saw her inside. Confused, she shakes her head. GERTRUDE Are you sure? BUFORD Newton’s window was open.

Looking back, your suggestion does read a bit better.

Quoted Text Pg 90 Quoted Text Sheriff Hardley sits up, pulling his shirt open -- revealing a bullet proof vest. He possesses his .357 again -- BOOM-BOOM-BOOM! His hail of bullets sends Buford stumbling back, until dropping him bullet proof - should be bullet-proof. I'd also reverse the action here - have him check vest after shot.

Yeah, makes sense, given the urgency.

Quoted Text Like I said - really nitty comments - reads great

Thanks, dude. Again, really appreciate you giving it another look!

-- Michael

Happy to do it - hope to see this on the big screen

Quoted Text Happy to do it - hope to see this on the big screen

Thanks, me too lol.

But, all jokes aside, if you need anything else that you feel could use some eyes, let me know. It's always a nice, easy read.

-- Michael

Quoted from spesh2k Well, "Villains" wasn't exactly breaking new ground. Because you're pretty much saying I'M COPYING "Villains", which is far from true.

I'm not accusing you of stealing from Villains dude lol i'm just saying it's like Villains, but Villains did a better job of making the villains threatening because they didn't do stupid shit like killing tons of people and drawing attention to their other criminal acts.

There's very few original stories anyway so anything you write is bound to overlap some other movie. Sometimes it happens subconsciously. But I'll take a little less originality if the story is executed well and yours is except for that one part.

Gotcha man. Sorry, I've been locked in a room with a shitty view of the Bronx for the past 2 months, I'm a little jumpy lol. Probably misconstrued your phrasing.

BUT... in regards to the movie "Villains"... this isn't that kind of movie. This is supposed to be a Southern-fried, grindhouse, revenge, horror slasher that takes place in the rural, conservative South. And if killing tons of people isn't threatening, I really don't know what is. It doesn't take a genius to be threatening. If I had a gun and you saw I just killed a bunch of people, chances are you're going to be pretty threatened by that.

I did clear up Buford's role in the human trafficking operation in the last draft (his wife is the brains while Buford is the wild card fucking everything up). With Buford, I'm not going for some sophisticated, elegant genius wearing a suit. This is a guy who doesn't have a pot to piss in pretty much because of his erratic temper (which gets more erratic).

Anyway, if you need another look at the next draft of your script, hit me up, bro. I'm around.

-- Michael

Quoted from spesh2k Thanks, me too lol. But, all jokes aside, if you need anything else that you feel could use some eyes, let me know. It's always a nice, easy read. -- Michael

I'm in the process of going through some older scripts and deciding whether to freshen them up or leave them in the dust bin.  

One of those is: Dark World.  

Logline: In order to stop a serial killer, an FBI Agent must convince his colleagues that the murders that only he can see on a virtual reality game are real.

Anyway - going to be playing around with this soon and am thinking about converting it from a VR thing to a Gamer thing (ie.., like real murders taking place in something like Call of Duty). Really just looking for macro level thoughts - don't need typos et al as I got to do a tidy up anyway. No rush - but if you're ever bored and need something to kill time....

You can find it on this site - page 3 of the THRILLERS thread or on my site.