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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Horror Scripts  ›  Honey Mustard - feature Moderators: bert
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  Author    Honey Mustard - feature  (currently 9039 views)
Don
Posted: March 28th, 2020, 5:12pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Honey Mustard by Michael J. Kospiah - Horror - After being stiffed, an unhinged waitress, hellbent on revenge, torments the customer who didn't tip her and his surprisingly resourceful family.  

"Don't Breathe" meets "Joker".  93 pages

One Pager

Feature version of the short Honey Mustard.

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Don  -  November 17th, 2020, 1:14pm
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Sham
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Hey Michael!

This is damn good.

So I didn't really take notes along the way, but here are some blanket thoughts:

The concept works for me. It's so simple, so relevant, and I think something practically anyone can relate to. I've never worked in food service, but I don't need to in order to relate to some of the themes here: as a customer, I've had that discussion of what to tip before, so that's where I'm able to sit back as a viewer and find myself engaged in the story.

The characters work for me. Stella is strong and sort of commands your attention, despite having such little dialogue for a lead character. Buford is also well-developed. You really feel for him in the employment office scene, and you start to like him in the scene where he talks to his son about being a good person.

S P O I L E R S

Which is why your twist really knocked me on my ass.

I was JUST talking to you about a good twist being hard to do, and you've done it. You kept our focus on Stella and her mental decline and did it so effectively, so of COURSE we're putting the pieces together that she's finally gone batshit looney tunes and is the villain of the story. WRONG.

And then the twists keep coming, each one upping the ante. Yet, even though it goes balls to the wall towards the end, you've somehow never strayed into territory that feels cartoonish or too over-the-top. We've already identified with these people and connected with them, and you've successfully kept that human element the whole way through, so regardless of what crazy thing happens, we're along for the ride.

I think the script loses some steam around page 75. I'm wondering if you can somehow fill in a few more scenes with Buford and his family, as they're interesting enough and command our focus.

I also had a small issue with Stella seeing Oscar's "ghost" for the first act, but then it just kind of fizzles out and doesn't go anywhere. I honestly thought it would end with Stella killing Buford and on-and-off seeing Oscar's face instead of his; maybe Buford pleading "Remember you still have a heart in that little body..." before she really drives his death home.

I can't remember; is there any mention of there being missing girls in the area? If I missed it, that's my fault. If not, there probably should be.

I really enjoyed yellow being a recurring element in the story. I love the way it represents both hope (a new day) and deceit; perfectly reflecting the story.

I think that's all I've got. This is fast-paced, hardcore, and damn fun. I can see this one getting picked up easily. And if it does, I just hope the marketing is smart enough not to reveal too much.

Great job! I think this is going to do well for you.

Chris


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spesh2k
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Hey Chris,

Thanks for checking this out before it even hit the SS boards, really glad you enjoyed it. Your notes really helped confirm some issues I thought needed addressing for future drafts.


Quoted Text
The concept works for me. It's so simple, so relevant, and I think something practically anyone can relate to. I've never worked in food service, but I don't need to in order to relate to some of the themes here: as a customer, I've had that discussion of what to tip before, so that's where I'm able to sit back as a viewer and find myself engaged in the story.


I've worked in food service, waiting tables and bar tending, for probably close to 15 years of my life. And it sucks. The camaraderie among fellow employees and connecting with friendly regulars are two of the only positive takeaways I see (along with quick, "easy" cash). But it sucks working with assholes, which the Stella character kinda does. I've seen firsthand the sexual harassment in the restaurant industry that kinda goes under the radar a lot, even in these hashtag me-too days. And, though I myself, am not a woman, I've worked with people I didn't like so I was able to find a way to connect with the main character in that sense while using my observations on how women are often treated in this environment. But, of course, the biggest complaint in this field of work is whenever we receive a bad tip or no tip from an asshole customer. And, even if you've never worked in the restaurant industry, I'm sure everyone's at least been to a restaurant and discussed the tip situation. Receiving no tip is by far the biggest insult to a server who makes a living off tips. Sometimes, the service is bad and it is warranted. But, with years of experience as a server, a lot the times the bad service is due to just having an off day... often times, just having a bad day in general... which we all have. So, next time you go out to eat and the server seems frazzled and kinda sucks, maybe think that they could just be having a bad day. A tip and a smile just might turn that around. But, at the other end of the spectrum, I understand that a bad-tipping customer who's been rude the whole time might ALSO be having a really bad day. So, that's what I wanted to do here. I wanted to take two very flawed characters from different walks of life having really, really bad days, and have them collide at the peak of their bad (in this instance, psychotic) moods.

Also, the title and theme were inspired by a situation I had while working at a Ruby Tuesdays years ago. I was having a bad day, forgot to give some punk kid, who was with a bunch of punk friends, his honey mustard with his kid's menu chicken fingers. Instead of asking for it again, he just let it go. But, instead of putting a tip on the credit card receipt, he just wrote "honey mustard"... which REALLY got my blood boiling. I wanted to find out who this kid was and beat the living shit out of him. But my kind boss at the time suggested that maybe he was just having a bad day. Of course, I just thought he was some punk college kid who didn't have money in the first place (what kind of adult orders off the kid's menu at night?) and was looking for an excuse not to tip. Nevertheless, I do understand that I didn't bring him his precious honey mustard.


Quoted Text
The characters work for me. Stella is strong and sort of commands your attention, despite having such little dialogue for a lead character. Buford is also well-developed. You really feel for him in the employment office scene, and you start to like him in the scene where he talks to his son about being a good person.


My main goal was to create an iconic indie horror movie character for the 21st century. I wanted to make a character we can at least empathize with for a chunk of the story... and who has it worse than a minority woman in America today? Even though she's losing her shit, we kinda feel for her... the subtle racism, the sexual harassment, the physical and mental abuse she endured while with her cop husband. I just wanted to keep the empathy going for a little bit, just enough to maybe understand why she's going off the rails... then completely get behind her after certain 2nd-act plot turns that I won't mention directly.

As for the little dialogue, she does get shot in the mouth, literally, so I'm sure she'd have some speech issues. But, even before that, she didn't have too much dialogue. I just wanted to capture her mental decline throughout her horrific, traumatic day even before going in for her restaurant shift. And I thought the best way to show the decline was to, well, SHOW it rather than have her talk a whole bunch. A lot of facial and eye acting for this role. I actually wrote this with Sasha Lane from "American Honey" and "Daniel Isn't Real". She's such an awesome actor and I see a real bad-ass in her that I think would really carry the film.

As for Buford, there's definitely a lot to relate to with him. Actually something I'm going through for the past couple months, being involuntarily unemployed (this pandemic only made matters worse). Though I don't have a criminal record like the Buford character preventing me from getting jobs. But I've seen friends endure some hardships with money being the main issue, friends with children and spouses. Especially with a family, it can be rough. But I always find it touching to see a loyal wife (or husband) and kid show support for one another during rough times, sticking together.


Quoted Text
Which is why your twist really knocked me on my ass.


Sweet. A little misdirection can go a long way. One horror film I saw that I was really, really impressed with was "Better Watch Out". They make you think it's gonna one type of horror film but then take you into an entirely different - and awesomely satisfying - direction. And that's what I kinda wanted to do here. I wanted to make it look like this was going to be a home invasion film and then keep changing gears as the story progressed, all while keeping the tone consistent. By the way, I highly recommend "Better Watch Out", especially if you're an indie horror fan like me.


Quoted Text
And then the twists keep coming, each one upping the ante. Yet, even though it goes balls to the wall towards the end, you've somehow never strayed into territory that feels cartoonish or too over-the-top. We've already identified with these people and connected with them, and you've successfully kept that human element the whole way through, so regardless of what crazy thing happens, we're along for the ride.


Yeah, I think things got a little crazy, perhaps a little far-fetched, but hopefully the characters kept things grounded.


Quoted Text
I think the script loses some steam around page 75. I'm wondering if you can somehow fill in a few more scenes with Buford and his family, as they're interesting enough and command our focus.


That was my biggest concern once finishing this draft. I feel like from 75-84, it's a little anti-climactic, having blown several loads (pardon the perverse phrasing) before that. It's like a cocaine ride for that 2nd act, going into the third and, from 75-84 feels like the come-down period. Definitely something I feel needs to be addressed more than anything else in the story. And I'll definitely find a way to keep up the frenetic energy. Maybe having some resolve with Buford and his son - maybe Buford seeing his son turn into him and being disappointed... or something like that. I really think it's the last 10-15 pages that need the most work. Which is why I posted the script on here, get people's thoughts and help confirm my own suspicions while also hearing new ones I didn't even think of.


Quoted Text
I also had a small issue with Stella seeing Oscar's "ghost" for the first act, but then it just kind of fizzles out and doesn't go anywhere. I honestly thought it would end with Stella killing Buford and on-and-off seeing Oscar's face instead of his; maybe Buford pleading "Remember you still have a heart in that little body..." before she really drives his death home.


Yes, even though we discussed this off-site, I'll mention it again. You did suggest having the ghost appear later in the script and play a part in contributing to her overall arc. I won't mention specific suggestions you made here, but thanks for helping out with that.


Quoted Text
I can't remember; is there any mention of there being missing girls in the area? If I missed it, that's my fault. If not, there probably should be.


We also discussed this privately. I thought the mere mention of missing girls would immediately draw attention to the Blumpkin family as not being who we thought they were. Though, and we discussed this, I think I have that part figured out. Thanks again with your help on resolving that issue pretty quickly.


Quoted Text
I really enjoyed yellow being a recurring element in the story. I love the way it represents both hope (a new day) and deceit; perfectly reflecting the story.


Like we discussed already, just the mention of color can really dictate what the reader sees in their minds, right down to the overall look of the film, not just the specific color of certain objects.


Quoted Text
This is fast-paced, hardcore, and damn fun. I can see this one getting picked up easily. And if it does, I just hope the marketing is smart enough not to reveal too much.

Great job! I think this is going to do well for you.


Thanks again, man. I feel really good about this one. Just need to work out some kinks and get it to where I want it to be.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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SAC
Posted: March 29th, 2020, 9:09pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Mike,

Nice! Fast-paced, easy read. I enjoyed the story, and liked the twisty-turny way it played out. Always other layers to your work and, basing this off the audience you're aiming for, I think you hit this one on the head.

Your ending, epilogue, I guess, worked out real nice for me in NYC. How it comes back in a circle, only now you get a sneaky sense of Stella's arc, yet with a little wink and a nod to her past. I'd like to think her killing days are done, but you never know.

Your use of tongue-in-cheek character names was amusing -- Dick Hardley, Blumpkin.

The third act didn't let up, you kept the gore, the suspense pretty much revved up throughout. That said, you also did so very clearly, highlighting little details like the gravel crunching under Buford's feet as he ran to get his gun. I heard it, dude. I did. Earlier, I loved the X-Ray shot you used. I don't think I've seen that before in a screenplay, but I certainly won't forget it.

This is much, much different than the short script Honey Mustard I read a while back, as memory serves. You took this a whole different way, I think.

Anyway, overall, I thought it worked great for what it is intended to be: a gory, funny, tense thriller. Nice job, dude.

Curious about where/who you're going to market this to. What's your game plan with this?

Steve


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spesh2k
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Hey Steven,

Thanks for checking this out, man, hope it kept you busy for at least an hour during this craziness, especially in the NYC area. I've been climbing the walls pretty much.


Quoted Text
Your use of tongue-in-cheek character names was amusing -- Dick Hardley, Blumpkin.


Ha! Glad you caught that. Had a few filmmaker/screenwriting peers read it so far, outside of SS and you're the first one to mention that. I was soooo tempted to address it in the script. But I thought it would be funnier not to acknowledge it at all, especially when the story's completely void of dick and fart jokes. Guess I was kinda trolling. Plus, I thought the names rolled off the tongue pretty well for the characters.


Quoted Text
The third act didn't let up, you kept the gore, the suspense pretty much revved up throughout. That said, you also did so very clearly, highlighting little details like the gravel crunching under Buford's feet as he ran to get his gun. I heard it, dude. I did. Earlier, I loved the X-Ray shot you used. I don't think I've seen that before in a screenplay, but I certainly won't forget it.


Thanks man. Still think the 3rd act, in particular the last 15 pages (which is like 90 percent of the 3rd act), needs to be addressed the most. Not going to give it a complete overhaul, but definitely gonna change some things, keep the tension simmering a little better rather than have just a quiet, dialogue driven scene precede the ending at the NYC diner. Mostly going to go through the end of act 2 and act 3. I'm pretty happy with everything before that. Though I'm sure I'll make some alterations in the rewriting process.
As for the X-ray shot, I've seen it before but named differently - I was reading the script for Dusk Til Dawn and they call it the "Superman Shot".


Quoted Text
This is much, much different than the short script Honey Mustard I read a while back, as memory serves. You took this a whole different way, I think.


Well, there's actual backstory here. And an actual story, period. I pretty much just expanded on the few scenes from that short version, built the characters better and set up the misdirection better.


Quoted Text
Anyway, overall, I thought it worked great for what it is intended to be: a gory, funny, tense thriller. Nice job, dude.

Curious about where/who you're going to market this to. What's your game plan with this?


Thanks man, that's exactly what I wanted this to be. As for the game plan, for now I'm focusing on rewrites and getting it where I want it (specifically the 3rd act). I do have some things in mind, pretty much just doing research on lit managers, production companies, etc that have produced slasher films, blood back-road horror films, etc. I have some minor connections to Dark Sky and Glass Eye Pix (Larry Fessenden's company), but that's only through people I know. My feature script, "They Never Left" is in development with some actors and producers with associations with those horror companies.

Especially with the lead character being a bad-ass woman of color, not only being the final girl, but also being the Jason Voorhies character (so we're lead to believe for a portion of the script), I really think there's a market for this. Horror ALWAYS sells. Especially if it's fun and has some cleverness to it. I wrote this with actor Sasha Lane in mind - she's awesome and would murder this role. Such a bad ass.

But yeah, getting slightly ahead of myself. There is a plan but the first priority is getting the script in tip-top shape.

Thanks again for reading, Steven! Stay healthy... and sane!

-- Michael







THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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kev
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Hi Michael,

This logline was a natural magnet for me as I love good grisly B-movie fare. I was just planning on checking out a couple of pages, but this ended up roping me in for the full ride. It’s a lot of fun, and you know how to effectively subvert expectations.

Simple premises like this are always tricky, and it takes a good writer to be able to expand it over 80 pages without feeling like it’s being stretched thin. I never felt that this one was doing that, it starts with a bang and never lets up until the final scene.

I scanned the other comments so I knew a twist was coming, but it was still executed very well. I think it would have been even more effective if I hadn’t seen Don’t Breathe and Villains recently. However, the captive coming up for a heroic chainsaw moment was definitely a script highlight for me.

I don’t really have any criticisms to add, just wanted to let you know I had a really fun time reading this one. I can easily picture a hyper stylized version of this on the screen, something visually akin to The Guest. I hope it finds its way there. Good luck!


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spesh2k
Posted: March 30th, 2020, 9:52am Report to Moderator
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Hey Kev,

Thanks for reading, glad you enjoyed it. Still some kinks to work out, specifically with the 3rd act. Just wanna clean it up a bit, change a few things, get it closer to 90 pages.


Quoted Text
Simple premises like this are always tricky, and it takes a good writer to be able to expand it over 80 pages without feeling like it’s being stretched thin. I never felt that this one was doing that, it starts with a bang and never lets up until the final scene.


Yeah, pretty much had the basic premise in a 7-page script I wrote under the same title. But I felt like there was a lot to work with there, plenty of room to expand on the characters and build off of them. I pretty much used the characters to build the plot.


Quoted Text
I scanned the other comments so I knew a twist was coming, but it was still executed very well. I think it would have been even more effective if I hadn’t seen Don’t Breathe and Villains recently. However, the captive coming up for a heroic chainsaw moment was definitely a script highlight for me.


Ah, loved "Don't Breathe"! Haven't heard of "Villains" but I'll look into it. Lord knows I need plenty of entertainment during these times. Glad you enjoyed the chainsaw moment!


Quoted Text
I can easily picture a hyper stylized version of this on the screen, something visually akin to The Guest.


Nice, I really enjoyed "The Guest", one of my favorite movies during the 2010's. Especially the style of it, the choice of music, everything about it. Might use that as part of my pitch, where you find movies similar to it. Been having a hard time finding films to compare it to as a selling point. Maybe "The Guest" meets "Devil's Rejects" meets... "Kill Bill"? I dunno.

Anyway, thanks again for reading, Kev, always appreciated.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
Posted: April 4th, 2020, 8:22am Report to Moderator
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New draft was just updated. Also, a one pager at the top of the thread, too. Thanks to everyone so far for your notes (on both SS and outside of SS). It really helped out a bunch in getting a draft out there that I'm proud of.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Grandma Bear
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I was going to finish your script today. I'm on page 45 of the draft you sent. Where do the changes start?


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spesh2k
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Hey Pia... I'd say right around page 45 the changes begin, so I'd suggest switching over to the new one.

I didn't make too many changes in the first 45... there's a line I added early in the script that has a call back later in the script -- so that scene later in the script might not read quite as powerful...

But yeah, I think you're right about at the point where I started rewriting stuff.

EDIT: I also changed one other scene... I have a postal worker stuffing mail into mailboxes when we see Oscar crawling out of Stella's house behind him. I changed it to a grieving mother stapling "Missing" pamphlets (her missing daughter) to telephone poles and stuffing them in mailboxes. She sees Oscar, gets scared and drops the pamphlets -- the pamphlets then blow away in the wind.

I've made other changes outside of that in the first 45, but it was just mainly cleaning up and fine-tuning the actual writing and smoothing out dialogue.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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Grandma Bear
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Okay, the last page I read was 43 where Buford says, you're supposed to be dead. In the new draft, that happens at page 51. I hope you haven't added to much to the first half...  


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spesh2k
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The story's essentially the same. Just adjusted some of the writing... I drew out the 2nd scene a little longer to draw more suspense, when Oscar grabs her foot when she's leaving.

I also polished the writing a bit, switched up some dialogue.

When Matilda and Stella are in the car (3rd scene), I extend their dialogue just a little bit. Not so much the dialogue, but I break some dialogue blocks apart and spread them out to capture the beats I wanted. And I added a line where Matilda tells Stella, "You're a fighter. Remember that".

So, yeah, even though it extends the length, it's generally the same plot, no striking changes.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
Posted: April 4th, 2020, 4:28pm Report to Moderator
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And the scene with the mailman was lengthened a little bit because I changed it to a grieving mother posting Missing signs of her daughter, putting them in mailboxes.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Grandma Bear
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Finished. I read the first draft up through page 43 and then continued with the new draft on page 51 since that's where it seemed to continue on. Some of my comments might not be relevant any more due to your re-write, but here goes.

I'm going to assume that you want me to be honest with my comments. I always am, at least I'd like to think so.

Overall, I think you've done well. Especially for an early draft. I do feel however that there are parts that are underdeveloped. I will try to offer some suggestions. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. There's no need to go through my comments and answer every bit of thought I had while reading.

As others have said, the story is simple enough. It is. I feel however that you have put quite a few issues/themes in the story. Tipping or not. Domestic abuse. Homosexuality. Human trafficking. Dysfunctional families. Unemployment. Drunk driving. A few more, but I can't think of them right now. Those are all great, but at least a few of them need to be addressed a little deeper IMHO.

Take Stella's domestic abuse for example. I get it. He beats her and she's had enough, BUT, that does not go well with their wedding photo where she does not look happy. In fact, I think you described her as sad in that photo. My first thought there was, why on earth would she marry him then? It would've worked better, for me at least, if she was happy and full of hope at the wedding and then everything turned to shit after that. I also would've liked to see her a lot more distressed after she killed Oscar. Like really lost as to what she would do next.

After Matilda picks her up in the car, there was a missed opportunity to develop their relationship some more. Perhaps they could mention something like their future together once she gets a divorce or something. Gives us a better glimpse into Stella's and Oscar's relationship, but also Stella's with Matilda.

Then we move on to the diner where Buford treats her badly. Very clever set-up misleading us to what's coming around mid-point. You are great at this type of twists, btw.

Buford was a pretty good set-up as well. I felt sorry for him when trying to get a job. One thing I didn't get however was this zoned out rage he apparently slips into every now and then. Is that really needed? If so, I want to know more about it. What causes this? How long has he suffered from it? Maybe it would work better if he's just a nice guy to start out with, but unemployment and no money to provide for his family slowly turns into the sex trafficking. Going from innocent to escalating madness.

Gertrude. Not sure how to feel about her. She can't be very smart to go along with all this. Either she's stupid or just as batshit crazy as her husband. Also, wouldn't she have noticed these zoned out rage issues at some other point in their marriage? She's not as strong a character as I think she could be. IMO, you just need to define her character better.

Newton is also weak IMO. I know you want him to be, but you can still develop his character more.

None of the cops really standout. Perhaps you can do something more with Hardley? I know there's already a connection with Matilda being his daughter, but what if Buford was also a long time friend. That way Hardley will refuse to believe that he could do anything wrong. Maybe they went to school together and occasionally they go fishing and have a few beers together.

The mid-point twist was a GREAT WTF!!!

When Stella comes by Buford's house to kill him, I wished there had been some stronger confrontation between them and not just bullets being exchanged.

The action stuff is handled well in the third act. Not much to say there.

So, good job, but needs a re-write to be a little stronger emotionally and I have no doubt you can handle that.

The following are just thoughts going through my head as I read. If they seem terse or negative that was not my intention. Just thoughts passing through.

Good luck with this.


Page 1.     Stella! My granddaughter's name.

Less than half a page in and I'm already hating Oscar.

Page 2.     Now I really hate him.

Page 3.     Cascading? Just how big was that bowl of honey mustard? Perhaps a different verb would work better. Nitpicking, I know.  

Page 4.     Licking blood-tinged honey mustard seems an unnecessary step. Especially now in these virus days. Thinking as a woman here, I think the last thing I would want in my body after his behavior would be any of his body fluids. Maybe if she spits it out on him?

Page 6.     Would be fitting to have some sort of comment after Matilda suggests they call the police. At least some kind of facial expression since Oscar was the police.

Page 8.     Greta? A new person or did you mean Gertrude?

Page 15.   Almost seems a little much taunting from her co-workers, IMO.

Page 16.   Stella gets aggressive with Buford, I understand why, but it makes me wonder why she puts up with the crap from Donnie and Bo. Seems like she would be able to handle easy jerks like that. No?

Page 22.   Good little nugget there about the sheriff and Matilda. That's the kind of stuff that keeps people reading on to see how that fits in.

Shouldn't the sheriff be calling in for back-up and his gun drawn by now?

Page 24.   OMG! My granddaughter's name is Stella Rey...

Page 25.   "Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them." Margaret Atwater.

Page 28.   A lot of gravel crunching going on...

Page 31.   Can't help but wondering why no one heard the gunshot. Never mind. That is answered on the next page, lol.

Page 34.   Considering that Buford has been shot, I would imagine Gertrude being a little more alarmed.

Page 36.   Wondering why there are so many mentionings of that CRUNCHING GRAVEL and THE RUSTY PICK-UP TRUCK. What's so important about it?

Page 39.   I'd skip Gertrude's, Are you okay? line. Weird question since it's obvious he's been hit again.

Page 43.   You're supposed to be dead! Great nugget of plot thickener.

Page 53.   New draft. Clever turn of events there.

Page 58.   I have to say that I was a little disappointed with the dungeon room. IMHO, it has become a bit of cliche. Maybe not to others though.

Page 60.   Where did Newton go?

Page 62.   What did Hardley and Matilda argue about? Must have been something really bad for him to say he never wanted to see her again. Maybe just expand on that with a few carefully chosen words, so it doesn't feel like we're being hit over the head.

Page 63.   RUSTY PICK-UP TRAFFIC?

Page 64.   It might add to the visuals if we see the Dixon County Sheriff.

Page 67.   Would add some extra drama if Sheriff Hardley and Buford are good friends from way back and he doesn't believe Deputy Roy.

Page 68.   Again, could add some drama if Newton is really upset or angry or something. I feel there should be conflict between them. Maybe later, he will confront his mother. How could you go along with this??? Or such.

Page 72.   This family is fucked up.  

Page 73.   A broken vacuum cleaner? Not sure I think that's a great analogy. Unless of course you intended for Gertrude to be totally void of feelings and a bit stupid too.

Page 77.   Is that what came by to ask me...

Page 80.   A little predictable with Stella ambushing Buford. Maybe have him come down while she is trying to pick the cuffs. Talk a little bit about what he's going to do to her and she's working the cuffs behind her back. Add more tension to the scene.

Page 81.   Maybe Newton should be doing something here. Some sort of reaction at least to the gunshot. Some curiosity about the cops. Peeking out the window at them or something.

Page 85.   What now? A Pulp Fiction nod?  





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spesh2k
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Hey Pia! Great stuff here! This is why I love when you read my stuff.


Quoted Text
As others have said, the story is simple enough. It is. I feel however that you have put quite a few issues/themes in the story. Tipping or not. Domestic abuse. Homosexuality. Human trafficking. Dysfunctional families. Unemployment. Drunk driving. A few more, but I can't think of them right now. Those are all great, but at least a few of them need to be addressed a little deeper IMHO.


Yes, I agree. There's some things in there that don't really have a payoff IMO. Although not every little thing needs to come full circle, much of it is to just add to the depravity, throw more stuff in there to chip away at Stella's sanity.


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Take Stella's domestic abuse for example. I get it. He beats her and she's had enough, BUT, that does not go well with their wedding photo where she does not look happy. In fact, I think you described her as sad in that photo. My first thought there was, why on earth would she marry him then? It would've worked better, for me at least, if she was happy and full of hope at the wedding and then everything turned to shit after that. I also would've liked to see her a lot more distressed after she killed Oscar. Like really lost as to what she would do next.


Usually I'll give each character, mostly the main characters, their own little backstories. And though I might not address some of the information directly, I do it with hopes of it somehow contributing to the characters makeup, hoping it shows through naturally.

With Stella being unhappy in the wedding photo, my thinking was she married the guy because it just seemed like something she was supposed to do. As many in the homosexual community, a lot of people grow up hiding their sexuality. And it's painful for them, acting like they're not who they really are. So her being unhappy with Oscar in the wedding photo has more to do with her hiding her sexuality, not being the person she really is. But being what she's supposed to be, especially in a seemingly conservative area where she lives. Also, he's a little older than her and met her when she was young and naive -- she's 25 here, so she probably met Oscar while in her teens. Daddy issues maybe? I don't know, perhaps. But she's been pretty much under his thumb in what's been a controlling marriage. And that's what I wanted to get across.


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After Matilda picks her up in the car, there was a missed opportunity to develop their relationship some more. Perhaps they could mention something like their future together once she gets a divorce or something. Gives us a better glimpse into Stella's and Oscar's relationship, but also Stella's with Matilda.


Yes! I agree. And I feel like it can be done with a single line. Now, I did rewrite that scene a little more to make it a little more tender and feeling. But having Matilda say something like, "We just run away together. Some place where he couldn't find us". Or something to that effect.


Quoted Text
Then we move on to the diner where Buford treats her badly. Very clever set-up misleading us to what's coming around mid-point. You are great at this type of twists, btw.


Thanks! I love twists when they come early on. I don't know if you've seen a horror flick called "Better Watch Out", but it had a brilliant twist at the end of the 1st act that steered the film into a completely different direction that I thought was impressive. You go from thinking it's a home invasion film and it becomes something else.


Quoted Text
Buford was a pretty good set-up as well. I felt sorry for him when trying to get a job. One thing I didn't get however was this zoned out rage he apparently slips into every now and then. Is that really needed? If so, I want to know more about it. What causes this? How long has he suffered from it? Maybe it would work better if he's just a nice guy to start out with, but unemployment and no money to provide for his family slowly turns into the sex trafficking. Going from innocent to escalating madness.


I didn't want to be too in your face with it, but he did have a criminal past (briefly pointed out when his resume is being looked over). I'm a firm believer that someone doesn't just become evil after years of depravity and struggle... I believe they always had that evil in them. Maybe not always, but childhood often influences what becomes their true nature. Adversity will expose this nature. Plenty of people deal with similar circumstances and prevail, revealing that they are strong. And good people. Buford is not. I just didn't want to get into his whole childhood and break the pacing too much. I personally thought the arc was strong enough, even if the first half of his arc was deceptive.


Quoted Text
Gertrude. Not sure how to feel about her. She can't be very smart to go along with all this. Either she's stupid or just as batshit crazy as her husband. Also, wouldn't she have noticed these zoned out rage issues at some other point in their marriage? She's not as strong a character as I think she could be. IMO, you just need to define her character better.


I don't know about not being very smart. I'm thinking more devoted. You'd think Bonnie would be smarter than be with a guy like Clyde, right? She was smart enough to rob banks and evade capture for a decent amount of time. But there was just something about Clyde that made her stick around and do evil shit... love perhaps?


Quoted Text
Newton is also weak IMO. I know you want him to be, but you can still develop his character more.


Didn't really wanna do a character piece on everybody, but I see what you're saying. Part of this is due to him being absent for much of the script (in the basement). I was kinda using him as a device to show just how influential Buford is to his family -- his son is a product of him, which Buford doesn't like. But I agree, I can add a few things here. Still, I don't want this to be a sprawling character epic. Maybe I'm exaggerating there... I just want to keep it at around an hour and a half. My last movie "Rage" is 2 hours and 23 minutes long and I'm trying to cut it back down to slasher movie length.


Quoted Text
None of the cops really standout. Perhaps you can do something more with Hardley? I know there's already a connection with Matilda being his daughter, but what if Buford was also a long time friend. That way Hardley will refuse to believe that he could do anything wrong. Maybe they went to school together and occasionally they go fishing and have a few beers together.


This is an interesting idea worth exploring. Again, something I think can be addressed with a line or two.


Quoted Text
The mid-point twist was a GREAT WTF!!!


Yay!


Quoted Text
When Stella comes by Buford's house to kill him, I wished there had been some stronger confrontation between them and not just bullets being exchanged.


Yeah, I kinda wanted to save that for later in the script.


Quoted Text
So, good job, but needs a re-write to be a little stronger emotionally and I have no doubt you can handle that.


Thanks, Pia! I'm really, really proud of the 2nd draft and I feel even better about where the 3rd draft is gonna go. I'm not too far off, but there's definitely stuff I need to add to give it more of an emotional punch. This REALLY, REALLY HELPS. And I can't thank you enough. This is probably the best I've felt about a script in a long, long time -- not to dismiss my new movie coming out, it turned out pretty great, I'm not shitting on it at all. But this feels a little different.



Quoted Text
Page 1.     Stella! My granddaughter's name.


I apologize lol. Although she ends up kicking ass, so maybe it's not too bad of a thing.


Quoted Text
Less than half a page in and I'm already hating Oscar.


Cool, mission accomplished.


Quoted Text
Page 2.     Now I really hate him.


Sweet.


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Page 4.     Licking blood-tinged honey mustard seems an unnecessary step. Especially now in these virus days. Thinking as a woman here, I think the last thing I would want in my body after his behavior would be any of his body fluids. Maybe if she spits it out on him?


I was kinda doing a horror movie thing to punctuate the scene in a wink-wink, popcorn slasher kinda way. And I was really trying to deceive the audience into believing she could kill everybody.


Quoted Text
Page 6.     Would be fitting to have some sort of comment after Matilda suggests they call the police. At least some kind of facial expression since Oscar was the police.


Addressed this in rewrites.


Quoted Text
Page 8.     Greta? A new person or did you mean Gertrude?


This too lol.


Quoted Text
Page 15.   Almost seems a little much taunting from her co-workers, IMO.


Perhaps. It was even worse before I had a 1st draft ready. My goal was to not have the audience hate Stella so much leading up to the twist that they had trouble adjusting to rooting for her once the twist is actually revealed. I kind of wanted the audience to hate these characters as not care too much that Stella might have killed them.


Quoted Text
Page 16.   Stella gets aggressive with Buford, I understand why, but it makes me wonder why she puts up with the crap from Donnie and Bo. Seems like she would be able to handle easy jerks like that. No?


She gets aggressive with Buford after everything else builds up. I wanted them to chip away at her sanity -- she's holding back and holding back until she can't hold back anymore.


Quoted Text
Shouldn't the sheriff be calling in for back-up and his gun drawn by now?


Yeah, addressed this in rewrites, too.


Quoted Text
Page 24.   OMG! My granddaughter's name is Stella Rey...


Uh-oh! Don't sue me for defamation!


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Page 28.   A lot of gravel crunching going on...

Page 36.   Wondering why there are so many mentionings of that CRUNCHING GRAVEL and THE RUSTY PICK-UP TRUCK. What's so important about it?


Yeah, just a product of 1st draft writing. I went back and smoothed over a lot of the writing, including the gravel crunching.


Quoted Text
Page 39.   I'd skip Gertrude's, Are you okay? line. Weird question since it's obvious he's been hit again.


Addressed that, too in the 2nd draft rewrite.


Quoted Text
Page 62.   What did Hardley and Matilda argue about? Must have been something really bad for him to say he never wanted to see her again. Maybe just expand on that with a few carefully chosen words, so it doesn't feel like we're being hit over the head.


I didn't wanna be too in your face about it, but they argued about her coming out as a lesbian. I try suggesting that that's what it was about -- Hardley talking about how he just doesn't understand it, talking about guys kissing guys, girls kissing girls. But this is definitely something I can be a little more clear about with just another subtle line.


Quoted Text
Page 63.   RUSTY PICK-UP TRAFFIC?


Fuck. Missed that. Thanks!


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Page 72.   This family is fucked up.  


As a massive horror nut, I always wanted to see a crossover of like Jason Voorhees or Michael Myers running into the family from Texas Chainsaw Massacre -- like a fucked up crossover version of the old Universal monster flicks. So, Stella was my Jason and the Blumpkins were the Sawyer family from Texas Chainsaw. Though I took it down a notch, obviously.


Quoted Text
Page 73.   A broken vacuum cleaner? Not sure I think that's a great analogy. Unless of course you intended for Gertrude to be totally void of feelings and a bit stupid too.


I wanted to show how cold she was -- and she's talking down to her child, too. She's trying to say it in a way she would understand, which probably shows that Newton ain't too bright, maybe.


Quoted Text
Page 77.   Is that what came by to ask me...


Fuck again! Thanks for pointing that out!


Quoted Text
Page 80.   A little predictable with Stella ambushing Buford. Maybe have him come down while she is trying to pick the cuffs. Talk a little bit about what he's going to do to her and she's working the cuffs behind her back. Add more tension to the scene.


Maybe. Him saying what he'll do to her doesn't make sense since he doesn't plan on killing her now -- he's selling her, which kinda makes her bullet proof at this point -- that is until she escapes.

Thanks again, Pia! Definitely using this as a go-to while I work on the 3rd draft. Excellent, excellent stuff, exactly what I needed.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Giving this a read.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Cool man, I'm actually reading "Step Seven" right now, at about page 30. Will finish up soon.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k
Cool man, I'm actually reading "Step Seven" right now, at about page 30. Will finish up soon.


Nice. I'll get to Honey tomorrow.  Read the first 10 and am intrigued


My Scripts can all be seen here:

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eldave1
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Michael, overall  your writing is just stellar.  Just perfect in terms of clarity, space and style.  A breeze of a read.

There is a ton to like about this script. I didn’t spend the time commenting on all the things that I thought were great to keep that in mind is you read the comments on things I thought need reconsidering.  This was a really, really solid effort.

Anyway:

OPENING SCENE

Pretty much perfect. Riveting stuff. I had two nit issues:

Pg. 2 Frightened, she slowly looks up at him.
This seemed a little unnatural to me – he just banged the table, startling her. She would already be heads up and in a defensive posture.

Pg 4.
OSCAR
You want that knife, don’t you?

A little OTN for me and I don’t think you need it. I’d just delete the line.

IN THE HOUSE THE NEXT MORNING.

99% of folks are probably going to love the Oscar is not quite dead bit. I’m not one of them. I’ve just scene this so many times that it’s lost impact.  For me, you can keep on the nudging of the body stuff, I just don’t care for the miracle he’s alive! Again – I’m probably in the minority here.

WE MEET MALTIDA

Liked most of the scene. But this string of dialogue:

MATILDA
I should call the police.

Dejected, Stella just shakes her head.
STELLA
He is the police.

MATILDA
I could call my Dad. I know for a fact he can’t stand Oscar.

STELLA
I can’t make you do that.

Did not ring true to me from Stella’s end. It sounded exactly like the chat that we would have before Stella killed him. Not the one they would have after.  Maltilda’s lines are fine because she doesn’t know.  But Stella’s seem off somehow.  I know that the intent here is that Stella is not going to reveal what she did. But I think you can achieve the same goal with just a little misdirection. Just as an example:

MATILDA
I should call the police.

STELLA
It’s too late…He’s gone.

MATILDA
I could call my Dad. I know for a fact he can’t stand Oscar.

STELLA
I don’t need you to do that.  Please.

Or something like that – just something to indicate that Stella is wrestling with this inquiry from Matilda because, unlike Matilda, she knows there is a dead dude on her floor.

I also thought it might be a nice touch if there was a speck of blood on her shoe from when he nudged Oscar and Matilda noticed that – Stella had to explain it away.

WE MEET THE BLUMPKINS

Perfect – loved everything about it.

NEWTON AT THE HIGHSCHOOL

Perfect – loved everything about it.

BUFORD REJECTED FOR JOB

Only nit issue I had here was with the header.

INT. EMPLOYMENT OFFICE - LATER THAT DAY

It made me think we were in like the unemployment office rather than at an establishment. I’d change it to something more specific.  INT. FACTORY  - OFFICE  or whatever type of establishment this was.

STELLA MEETS BUFORD AT DINER –  WE MEET THE CREW

Really good stuff. I love how the Honey Mustard is the memory trigger.

A logic issue here.

MATILDA
(to Donnie)
Keep it in your pants, Cosby

So as I am reading the previous high school scene I notice that they are smoking rather than vaping, no one has a smart phone, etc and was about to write a note that this seems to be dated. Then I re-read the  logline and saw that this was 1980s.  Okay – perfect. But then I see the Cosby reference – and I assume it is a Cosby rape reference – and we are back in modern times.  Am I missing something???

THE LAST RETURN OF OSCAR

Okay, don’t like this for the same reason I didn’t like it the first time – it’s only a surprise that he is alive because it’s so implausible and it creates logic issues like this:

Oscar, almost at her feet, gradually slides the knife from
out of his throat...

He waited all day and night to pull the knife out so he do it at this exact moment??  Doesn’t land with me.

But I see now that you have a plot point you need to serve here – someone is going to witness Oscar’s demise.  I think there is a better way to do it.  Have Oscar still conscious after the first attack –  but weakened enough for Stella to bind him up – e.g., duct tape,  using his own handcuffs against him or whatever – doesn’t matter.  

BACK AT THE DINING ROOM

Liked it – but it did strike me as odd that we didn’t see Chad at all in the first scene. I’d be tempted to having him there briefly and having to leave to make a bank run or something.

CHAD CONFRONTS STELLA

Here I think Chad is blending too much into the Donnie and Bo characters here.  Like this dialogue:

CHAD
I don’t give a good fuck what kinda
day you’re having. We’ve had enough
shit Yelp reviews this week, okay?
One more, your ass is fired.
(mocking Ebonics)
You feel me?

Is where you lost his unique voice for me.  When you first set him up with the Buford chat, I thought he was perfect – kind of like a Neidermeyer from Animal House. Now he’s kind of like Belushi. I’d keep him like in the first scene – too proper for his age – swelled ego – don’t devolve him to the Donnie/Bo level.

FINDING THE WALLET

Like the scene – but a slight logic problem.  Buford would have had his wallet with him when he paid his bill – yet she finds it in the seat. Yeah, I know – nit issue.

Loving the use of Oscar in these  scenes.

THE SHERIFF SHOWS UP – DICK HARDLEY

Love it.

Nit:

But he notices one of the pamphlets on the ground.

I’d call it – missing teenager pamphlets – just to remind us.

CHAD DEAD AT THE DINER

Okay – didn’t see this coming. That explains some of the harshness from Chad towards Stella earlier – I’m intrigued.

Oh – Christ – they’re all dead.  

Nice scenes here.

Okay – rolling along until here:

INT. BUFORD’S LIVING ROOM - MOMENTS LATER

I got confused. I didn’t know what the two girls on the screen meant. I was confused by:

BUFORD (CONT’D)
How much we talking about here?

GERTRUDE
Enough. More than enough.
She can barely hold back her excitement.

BUFORD
So, we don’t have to sell the
house? Right...?

I’’m really lost. Are they selling the two girls???? Did they get an offer on the house and if so why is that they don’t have to move??

Also – logic note: So far Buford hasn’t realized by now that he lost his wallet???

BUFORD AND HIS WIFE TALKING ABOUT THE WAITRESS/TIP

This was so effing good!. What a great scene.

THE ALL OUT BATTLE

Digging it – when we get here:

GERTRUDE

Maybe if we just tell her to leave?

I’d love a sarcastic response from Buford (e.g., a Yeah, that would work – or a “why didn’t I think of that? Type thing. It’s such an idiotic request from Gertrude it deserves a snappy response.  

IN THE BASEMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME

Okay, they are selling girls – so the logic issue I mentioned above doesn’t apply.  Thought I would leave the comment there so you would know I was confused at the time.

BACK IN THE BASEMENT – STELLA TIED UP.

This:

GERTRUDE

It’s the dark web. You’d be
surprised by some of the sick shit
they’re into.

Was little OTN for me – he already knows this – they’ve been selling girls.

ALL THE WAY TO THE ENDING

Hmm.  A little confused by the ending in NY.  Seemed a bit tacked on. Obviously, she got off for Oscar’s murder. But the implication here is that she’s going to go off on the lack of tip/ranch dressing stuff when that is not at all why she went off in the first place – it was because Buford killed all those people. It left me a little confused.

I would have thought that the Millennial couple would have been more in the vein of he was abusing her and that is what would set Stella off. Anyway – will come back and read again later to see if I just missed it.

Great job - hope these notes help.



My Scripts can all be seen here:

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spesh2k
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Hey David, thanks a lot for taking a look. You made some suggestions that nobody else pointed out, a few things I didn't even think of.


Quoted Text
Pg 4.
OSCAR
You want that knife, don’t you?

A little OTN for me and I don’t think you need it. I’d just delete the line.


For some reason, when I wrote that, I had flashbacks of Butch and Zed in "Pulp Fiction" when Butch says the same line, but with a gun -- "You want that gun, dontcha?"


Quoted Text
IN THE HOUSE THE NEXT MORNING.

99% of folks are probably going to love the Oscar is not quite dead bit. I’m not one of them. I’ve just scene this so many times that it’s lost impact.  For me, you can keep on the nudging of the body stuff, I just don’t care for the miracle he’s alive! Again – I’m probably in the minority here.


It was kind of a running "gag" throughout the script... rather playing off a common horror trope. And it was a bit of foreshadowing, too, when Buford suffers a similar throat injury but lives.


Quoted Text
WE MEET MALTIDA

Liked most of the scene. But this string of dialogue:

MATILDA
I should call the police.

Dejected, Stella just shakes her head.
STELLA
He is the police.

MATILDA
I could call my Dad. I know for a fact he can’t stand Oscar.

STELLA
I can’t make you do that.

Did not ring true to me from Stella’s end. It sounded exactly like the chat that we would have before Stella killed him. Not the one they would have after.  Maltilda’s lines are fine because she doesn’t know.  But Stella’s seem off somehow.  I know that the intent here is that Stella is not going to reveal what she did. But I think you can achieve the same goal with just a little misdirection. Just as an example:

MATILDA
I should call the police.

STELLA
It’s too late…He’s gone.

MATILDA
I could call my Dad. I know for a fact he can’t stand Oscar.

STELLA
I don’t need you to do that.  Please.


Well, Stella says "I can't make you do that" because she knows Matilda doesn't talk to her father anymore.

As for the "He is the police" line, Stella's goal is just to get past her questions, to convince Matilda just to leave it alone.


Quoted Text
I also thought it might be a nice touch if there was a speck of blood on her shoe from when he nudged Oscar and Matilda noticed that – Stella had to explain it away.


That could be a cool little detail to include.


Quoted Text
BUFORD REJECTED FOR JOB

Only nit issue I had here was with the header.

INT. EMPLOYMENT OFFICE - LATER THAT DAY

It made me think we were in like the unemployment office rather than at an establishment. I’d change it to something more specific.  INT. FACTORY  - OFFICE  or whatever type of establishment this was.


Yeah, I should've said EMPLOYMENT AGENCY.


Quoted Text
A logic issue here.

MATILDA
(to Donnie)
Keep it in your pants, Cosby

So as I am reading the previous high school scene I notice that they are smoking rather than vaping, no one has a smart phone, etc and was about to write a note that this seems to be dated. Then I re-read the  logline and saw that this was 1980s.  Okay – perfect. But then I see the Cosby reference – and I assume it is a Cosby rape reference – and we are back in modern times.  Am I missing something???


I describe it as an 80's style horror slasher ala "The Guest" and "Drive", where they do use cell phones. And the use of cell phones is fairly prominent in parts of the 2nd and 3rd acts. And I'm pretty sure people still smoke cigarettes. I do. And I always have high school kids asking to bum one off me every time they see me smoking one.


Quoted Text
THE LAST RETURN OF OSCAR

Okay, don’t like this for the same reason I didn’t like it the first time – it’s only a surprise that he is alive because it’s so implausible and it creates logic issues like this:

Oscar, almost at her feet, gradually slides the knife from
out of his throat...

He waited all day and night to pull the knife out so he do it at this exact moment??  Doesn’t land with me.

But I see now that you have a plot point you need to serve here – someone is going to witness Oscar’s demise.  I think there is a better way to do it.  Have Oscar still conscious after the first attack –  but weakened enough for Stella to bind him up – e.g., duct tape,  using his own handcuffs against him or whatever – doesn’t matter.


I really, really liked the juxtaposition of the visual set against a quiet rural neighborhood as a grieving mother sticks "Missing" pamphlets in mailboxes. And it's not like he was purposely biding his time to stick the knife out... more so of him slipping in and out of consciousness. And this scene doesn't quite take place at night, though it is further in the day. And, as for logic issues, I don't think one needs to suspend their disbelief too much. If Tim Roth's character in "Reservoir Dogs" can suddenly wake up after taking a gut shot and being unconscious for half the movie, I think this can work, especially within the realm and spirit of a grindhouse style horror flick.


Quoted Text
BACK AT THE DINING ROOM

Liked it – but it did strike me as odd that we didn’t see Chad at all in the first scene. I’d be tempted to having him there briefly and having to leave to make a bank run or something.


Good point.


Quoted Text
CHAD CONFRONTS STELLA

Here I think Chad is blending too much into the Donnie and Bo characters here.  Like this dialogue:

CHAD
I don’t give a good fuck what kinda
day you’re having. We’ve had enough
shit Yelp reviews this week, okay?
One more, your ass is fired.
(mocking Ebonics)
You feel me?

Is where you lost his unique voice for me.  When you first set him up with the Buford chat, I thought he was perfect – kind of like a Neidermeyer from Animal House. Now he’s kind of like Belushi. I’d keep him like in the first scene – too proper for his age – swelled ego – don’t devolve him to the Donnie/Bo level.


I kinda wanted Chad to reveal his real self -- if you've ever worked in the restaurant industry, whether manager or server, you wear this mask of this character you kinda create when you speak with customers. In front of Buford, he's being obnoxiously PC as a means of keeping control of the situation. Then, when he slips out of his character, he swears like a sailor. Obviously, you can't swear at customers. But you can be a dick in other passive aggressive ways. And that's what Chad was doing.

And I'm not sure if he's blended with Bo and Donnie too much -- Bo has no dialogue. Donnie is sexually harassing the shit outta her. Though I see what you mean w/ the racism there.


Quoted Text
FINDING THE WALLET

Like the scene – but a slight logic problem.  Buford would have had his wallet with him when he paid his bill – yet she finds it in the seat. Yeah, I know – nit issue.

Loving the use of Oscar in these  scenes.


Not sure what you mean? I know there's some places where you pay up front, but most restaurants and diners, you pay at the table. I've paid bar tabs many times and left my wallet there and had to pick it up the next day.


Quoted Text
INT. BUFORD’S LIVING ROOM - MOMENTS LATER

I got confused. I didn’t know what the two girls on the screen meant. I was confused by:

BUFORD (CONT’D)
How much we talking about here?

GERTRUDE
Enough. More than enough.
She can barely hold back her excitement.

BUFORD
So, we don’t have to sell the
house? Right...?

I’’m really lost. Are they selling the two girls???? Did they get an offer on the house and if so why is that they don’t have to move??


Yeah, it was a detail that I didn't want to stand out too much as to give away the upcoming reveal. It probably stands out more in the script than it would on film. The goal here was to still not know quite what their talking about outside of the fact that they're making money. She's on the computer earlier, as well and we think she's looking for someone to buy the house... then there's a teensy bit more information the next time she's at the computer.


Quoted Text
Also – logic note: So far Buford hasn’t realized by now that he lost his wallet???


Not if it didn't serve a purpose. I did have a scene where he realizes it at a gas station while he's pumping gas, but I just wanted to get right to the good stuff. Felt unnecessary.


Quoted Text
GERTRUDE
Maybe if we just tell her to leave?

I’d love a sarcastic response from Buford (e.g., a Yeah, that would work – or a “why didn’t I think of that? Type thing. It’s such an idiotic request from Gertrude it deserves a snappy response.  


Absolutely, good suggestion.


Quoted Text
GERTRUDE
It’s the dark web. You’d be
surprised by some of the sick shit
they’re into.

Was little OTN for me – he already knows this – they’ve been selling girls.


I get that. But the arrangement is that Gertrude handles the business side of it -- earlier when she's at the computer, he's kinda just looking over her shoulder. He doesn't really know exactly how it works. And he certainly doesn't think there'd be a market for girl who's all shot up. She's simply telling him, "You'd be surprised what they're into on the dark web".


Quoted Text
Hmm.  A little confused by the ending in NY.  Seemed a bit tacked on. Obviously, she got off for Oscar’s murder. But the implication here is that she’s going to go off on the lack of tip/ranch dressing stuff when that is not at all why she went off in the first place – it was because Buford killed all those people. It left me a little confused.

I would have thought that the Millennial couple would have been more in the vein of he was abusing her and that is what would set Stella off. Anyway – will come back and read again later to see if I just missed it.


Good point. BUT... she keeps his wallet and studies the photo ID before Buford ever kills anyone. It's a blink and you miss it moment, but she really was on the brink of completely losing it. I use it as a deception device, but she IS having Oscar hallucinations. Which means she really is cracking. And this suggests that she perhaps maybe even considered taking some kind of action on Buford even before he killed everyone. Not saying she would have killed him... but there may be a possibility that Stella really isn't all there. Matilda getting killed gave Stella's psychotic tendencies focus and meaning.

Thanks again for taking a look! I'll definitely read over this again. It will definitely be useful for further rewrites.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k
Hey David, thanks a lot for taking a look. You made some suggestions that nobody else pointed out, a few things I didn't even think of.

-- Michael


My pleasure - like I said the pages flew by.  Use what you like - discard what you don't of course.

I just went through some of the other comments - love that the genesis for honey mustard was your own personal restaurant experience. Funny how our minds retain stuff.

I just  finished a draft of a script that is based on a cruise line dedicated solely for terminally ill people - it had it's genesis in a statement by dying step dad made to me a decade ago when he was in a nursing home - "I'd rather just go on a cruise and have them drop me int he ocean when I die"' - Stuck with me - years later - a script.  


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
My pleasure - like I said the pages flew by.  Use what you like - discard what you don't of course.

I just went through some of the other comments - love that the genesis for honey mustard was your own personal restaurant experience. Funny how our minds retain stuff.


Yeah. I still think about that punk kid who wrote honey mustard on the tip line. I had a very bad temper back then and I really, really wanted to find out where this idiot lived -- I was living in a pretty small town at the time before I moved back to NYC. So everybody kinda knew everybody.

But yeah, I kinda combined a few things. I always had a pet peeve about customers touching me or grabbing me to get my attention. Got in a thing with a customer for grabbing my arm as I was passing by -- again, I had bad temper. I almost went berserk on the guy. Being a waiter or bartender can really test your nerves sometimes.

Also, in restaurants, the cooks were also kinda assholes. Almost everywhere I've worked And they used to get away with a lot of sexual harassment with the female waiters, there's no way they'd get away with that shit now (hopefully).


Quoted Text
I just  finished a draft of a script that is based on a cruise line dedicated solely for terminally ill people - it had it's genesis in a statement by dying step dad made to me a decade ago when he was in a nursing home - "I'd rather just go on a cruise and have them drop me int he ocean when I die"' - Stuck with me - years later - a script.


Ha! Sounds like a great premise! What genre are you going for?

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k


Yeah. I still think about that punk kid who wrote honey mustard on the tip line. I had a very bad temper back then and I really, really wanted to find out where this idiot lived -- I was living in a pretty small town at the time before I moved back to NYC. So everybody kinda knew everybody.

But yeah, I kinda combined a few things. I always had a pet peeve about customers touching me or grabbing me to get my attention. Got in a thing with a customer for grabbing my arm as I was passing by -- again, I had bad temper. I almost went berserk on the guy. Being a waiter or bartender can really test your nerves sometimes.

Also, in restaurants, the cooks were also kinda assholes. Almost everywhere I've worked And they used to get away with a lot of sexual harassment with the female waiters, there's no way they'd get away with that shit now (hopefully).



Ha! Sounds like a great premise! What genre are you going for?

-- Michael


Dramedy

All the old folks are going to be funny for the most part having a greater perspective on how ones life should end then those that are concerned about them.  Course - some got to die since that is what the ship was built for.  Title is SHIPPING OUT - got a vomit draft done - needs a lot of work - going to spend sometime later this month





My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Latest revision is updated.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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ajr
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Hi Michael,

First, let me say that you are a great writer. I've been pretty impressed with the features I've read here lately.
You've definitely crafted a vivid and noir-ish world. The narratives are clean and crisp and not overwritten at all, and they rather than the dialogue propel your story forward, so great job on that.

I didn't take page by page notes so forgive me for my comments being a bit scattered. I usually like to review scripts by delving into the writer's, and thus the characters', motivation, and look for any logic problems. Each scene needs to propel the narrative forward, so looking for inconsistencies is the best way to get a good script even tighter.

I think Pia hit upon the fact that you tackle a variety of themes here, so I had trouble figuring out what exactly you wanted to say with this piece. You've given us a lot of messed up people who, despite really detesting their circumstances, seem to want to stick it out in this town, where everyone knows everyone and no one really seems as if they want to improve themselves.

I guess I'll start with Stella, and I'll ask a tough question - does she really need to kill Oscar? I know that you have her reach her breaking point and carry it out so that it serves the misdirection. I'm wondering though, would the misdirection work anyway? She can still be traumatized to her breaking point by the domestic abuse... which is then mirrored by the cooks, and by Blumpkin. IMHO, what you've done by having her kill her husband and then go to work - to a mundane waitress shift, no less - is undermine her a bit as your heroine. The aftermath, the going about your daily routine, doesn't smack of trauma so much as it does careless disregard, for me... I'd be interested to know what the others think.

Carrying that point forward, so by page 32, when Stella is the suspected murderer of not only her abusers, but of her lover, and an innocent elderly couple, I'm reading along saying "okay, I have no rooting interest in these characters any longer." Granted, you take care of it later in the misdirection, however for the next 20 minutes, while I'm waiting for the killings to make sense, I zone out a little bit because I'm not invested in Stella, if that makes any sense.

The other motivation issue I see is with Buford applying for normal employment. I get that you set up his difficulty by giving him a prior - more on that later - but you're asking the audience to believe, essentially, that "human trafficking's not paying the bills, so I have to get me a 9 to 5, or sell my house." Or, is it that he wants gainful employment in order to NOT traffick? I don't think it's clear. This family is definitely weirdo central, but I think they leap onto each side of the fence at times.

And one has to wonder why Stella and the Blumpkins don't view a fresh start in another town as an alternative to going down these very dark roads. I think you undercut the fact that Stella is trapped in the abusive relationship and occupation by showing her in NYC a year later. Did she not have that option before she killed Oscar? To leave with Matilda? I guess you can argue that while Oscar is alive she'd never be free, because he's a cop and being protected by his brethren (speaking of, the line from Hardley about wishing they would have done something about it sooner rings a little hollow in light of the prior 90 minutes of mayhem).

And the last question I have is one that I always either ask as I'm reading, or ask the writer when I'm done reading, which is - what motivated you to write this? I had trouble at first deciding if it was Stella's story, or Buford's. And then I had trouble discerning whether you were going to give us a Thelma-and-Louise-type narrative, or if it was going to go off the rails ala VERY BAD THINGS (which it kinda did), or if you were going for a straight-out slasher film with a unique twist, which again, is where it seemed to go, with multiple people surviving multiple grave wounds, and grisly though entertaining deaths. What was the moral of the story, in your eyes? I think an eventual producer and director would want to know this, so that they can help you tell your story more effectively.

Again, great job in crafting a unique set of characters and situations, and kudos once again on your writing style. You definitely have your own voice, which will set you apart from other storytellers.

AJR


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/
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spesh2k
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Hey AJR! Thanks for reading, these are some great notes!


Quoted Text
I think Pia hit upon the fact that you tackle a variety of themes here, so I had trouble figuring out what exactly you wanted to say with this piece. You've given us a lot of messed up people who, despite really detesting their circumstances, seem to want to stick it out in this town, where everyone knows everyone and no one really seems as if they want to improve themselves.


The themes I used here were mainly contributing factors in Stella's shattered psyche. Though I explore similar themes with other characters, specifically the Blumpkin family. It's not so much wanting to stick it out in this town but rather that feeling of being trapped. Poor choice after poor choice can lead to feeling stuck in quicksand, to the point where it's too much to overcome. I've had similar feelings -- I was stuck in a small town in Jersey for a few years. And everyone would tell me, "just leave". But it wasn't that easy. I've made some bad choices along the way (mostly with money), which led me to being stuck there (kinda like how I'm stuck in the South Bronx now). My way of getting out, unfortunately, was to bank on something big happening. In my case,  it was selling a script, which I did. And it allowed me to leave that town. Luckily, I didn't have to resort to robbing banks or, in Buford's case, human trafficking.

Also, sometimes you get so used to feeling stuck that it's become comfortable. Especially if you've accepted that you'll never leave, your goal now is, "How do I thrive in my situation?"
Buford's "big thing" was to sell these girls. He doesn't want to, but somehow, it's become the only way for him -- his own fault for backing himself into that corner. He made his bed and now he's living in it. But his goal isn't to leave town, his goal is to not sell the house -- being trapped can limit your goals and "dreams", if that makes any sense. It has a crippling effect on your psyche. It's not until he sees how it's damaged his son the same way circumstances damaged him that he's considering getting the F out and starting over again.

Stella is trapped, albeit differently than Buford. Marrying young to an older, abusive and controlling man even though she's not straight. In this town, she's been programmed, like so many lost souls from depraved towns, that there isn't another way. Unfortunately, for her, it's done so much damage to her psyche, as it's done to many people -- Why does any battered woman stay in an abusive relationship? If life is so bad, why does anybody decide to just live that way?  

Her only ray of hope is in Matilda, but that seems like a pipe dream because that's how she's been programmed to think -- they're both waitresses and money seems to be keeping them from running off. At least that's the excuse she's been telling herself. It's not until this in the heat-of-the-moment thing that she's forced to really consider other options.

But, even after killing her own husband, there's still a feeling of being trapped -- she's not free yet, it's not that easy. That's made evident by her hallucinations, seeing her dead husband. Any person in their right mind (kinda) would consider calling out of work, maybe hiding the body. Or maybe just running off. But Stella isn't quite in her right mind. She's killed her husband but she just goes to work and tries to go about her day -- kind of like she's been doing her whole life, being a closeted lesbian... dealing with domestic abuse... she's blocked a lot out as a means of just living with it, trying to pretend everything's normal, sweeping everything under the rug. And with her husband, she's not sure what to do. Can she tell Matilda about it? Maybe. But she's afraid of those consequences and what it may do to that relationship. Oscar still has a psychological effect on her... she's still trapped. And she's so used to hiding things and blocking them out that this is her logical way of dealing with it.

Though I was thinking that maybe having Oscar address this through her hallucinations -- "What's the plan, exactly? Just leave me there and go about your day? You think things will just disappear if you just pretend that it didn't happen?" Something like that.


Quoted Text
I guess I'll start with Stella, and I'll ask a tough question - does she really need to kill Oscar? I know that you have her reach her breaking point and carry it out so that it serves the misdirection. I'm wondering though, would the misdirection work anyway? She can still be traumatized to her breaking point by the domestic abuse... which is then mirrored by the cooks, and by Blumpkin. IMHO, what you've done by having her kill her husband and then go to work - to a mundane waitress shift, no less - is undermine her a bit as your heroine. The aftermath, the going about your daily routine, doesn't smack of trauma so much as it does careless disregard, for me... I'd be interested to know what the others think.


I answered some of this above -- but I do feel that she needs to kill Oscar. My goal was to write a slasher flick, after all, and I wanted to set the tone for the rest of the film... and let it build and build until it got bat-shit nuts. But, for character reasons as well -- trauma comes in many forms and is unique to each individual based on their experiences. Some people just shut off completely. Some people block it out. Some people have panic attacks. I thought this was the way that Stella would deal with it, especially with her mind state continuing to dwindle.


Quoted Text
Carrying that point forward, so by page 32, when Stella is the suspected murderer of not only her abusers, but of her lover, and an innocent elderly couple, I'm reading along saying "okay, I have no rooting interest in these characters any longer." Granted, you take care of it later in the misdirection, however for the next 20 minutes, while I'm waiting for the killings to make sense, I zone out a little bit because I'm not invested in Stella, if that makes any sense.


That makes sense, but that was also my intention as part of the misdirection. I wanted Stella and Buford's story to dovetail and then come back in that first act. And I didn't want people to root for Stella for this portion of the story. I wanted the audience/reader to fear for the Blumpkin family. And to add to that danger, I took a risk by having us believe that Stella also killed Matilda -- this girl is just bat-shit nuts at this point (we're led to believe). Luckily, we find out in the next 15 minutes that it wasn't Stella who killed everybody... it was Buford. I know, in movies like these, we're supposed to root for someone throughout the whole story, but I just wanted to mess around with structure a little bit, kinda fuck with the audience, if that makes sense. And although we're led to believe Stella killed her lover, I tried making the other characters so unlikable that we haven't strayed to far way from Stella -- to make the transition from rooting against her to rooting for her not as rough. And in order to do that, everything we though she did, I made Buford responsible for so that now we have someone else we can despise. I'm kinda rambling, hope that makes sense.


Quoted Text
The other motivation issue I see is with Buford applying for normal employment. I get that you set up his difficulty by giving him a prior - more on that later - but you're asking the audience to believe, essentially, that "human trafficking's not paying the bills, so I have to get me a 9 to 5, or sell my house." Or, is it that he wants gainful employment in order to NOT traffick? I don't think it's clear. This family is definitely weirdo central, but I think they leap onto each side of the fence at times.


I touched on this a little bit earlier, but Buford doesn't want to do this. He tries finding a job but can't because of previous incidents on his wrap sheet. He's kinda backed himself into a corner at this point because of poor decisions -- I didn't want to go through his history of how he got to this point, I think it'd mess with the pacing a little bit. But it's become the only thing he can do in order to provide a better life for his family -- and his son. Though he's looking for a job, they still need to put food on the table. Something to carry them over until Buford hopefully does find something more legit. But it just doesn't work out for him.

And he didn't want this for his son. He knows he's an awful person -- he's accepted that. But he doesn't want his son to be like him and live this evil life. Unfortunately, we reach a point where his son does something horrible -- part of this is probably inherited from his father's traits, but Buford thought that maybe he could steer him differently. However, his own actions have made this impossible.


Quoted Text
And one has to wonder why Stella and the Blumpkins don't view a fresh start in another town as an alternative to going down these very dark roads. I think you undercut the fact that Stella is trapped in the abusive relationship and occupation by showing her in NYC a year later. Did she not have that option before she killed Oscar? To leave with Matilda? I guess you can argue that while Oscar is alive she'd never be free, because he's a cop and being protected by his brethren.


There's ALWAYS that option for everybody. But why does anyone stay in these abusive relationships? It seems crazy to us, but we're not them. I've seen it a million times, I've seen it with my own mother. She's trapped psychologically, not just financially. Many people in abusive relationships always have an excuse to not leaving -- Stella leans on the financial stuff, but there's more to it than that. At the end of the story, she's free. She's exonerated because her crime was justified (with the help of Sheriff Hardley).


Quoted Text
(speaking of, the line from Hardley about wishing they would have done something about it sooner rings a little hollow in light of the prior 90 minutes of mayhem)


Closer to the beginning, we're led to believe Oscar wasn't well liked. Matilda even says that her father doesn't like Oscar. And when Hardley and Deputy Roy are at the crime scene, Hardley says, "He probably had it coming". So they were aware of the abuse -- this happens far too often, people knowing about it but not saying or doing anything about it. It only becomes personal when Hardley thinks that Stella was responsible for his daughter. I probably need to do a better job making this more clear without hitting people over the head with it.


Quoted Text
And the last question I have is one that I always either ask as I'm reading, or ask the writer when I'm done reading, which is - what motivated you to write this? I had trouble at first deciding if it was Stella's story, or Buford's. And then I had trouble discerning whether you were going to give us a Thelma-and-Louise-type narrative, or if it was going to go off the rails ala VERY BAD THINGS (which it kinda did), or if you were going for a straight-out slasher film with a unique twist, which again, is where it seemed to go, with multiple people surviving multiple grave wounds, and grisly though entertaining deaths. What was the moral of the story, in your eyes? I think an eventual producer and director would want to know this, so that they can help you tell your story more effectively.


A lot of things motivated me to write this. I, myself, have a bit of temper -- not quite to the point of killing of course. But I've been in the restaurant industry for years as a waiter and bartender. The concept came to me when some idiot wrote honey mustard on the tip line instead of a tip -- I forgot his honey mustard. And I really, really wanted to confront this kid. As for the actual themes... I've been unemployed since January, so the money situation rang true to me, so I include that. It's not necessarily a moral to the story -- not all tales need to be Aesop fables, though I see what you're saying. I'm sure "Get Out" wasn't telling us that the moral of that story was to stay away from white girls. It's more of what I wanted to get across, how being abused and being controlled can really damage a person. That's what I wanted to get across with Stella. I also wanted to show how difficult circumstances can effect different people in different ways. Here, we have two characters in Stella and Buford having terrible days (in different ways of course) -- but they handle it differently due to their true natures as people. Of course, Stella's flawed, for sure. But ultimately, she prevails despite the control, despite the abuse, despite the shitty circumstances. She does make a questionable choice at the beginning, and though gruesome, it's somewhat warranted... at least in the realm of a horror film. Buford, on the other hand, goes the other way.

I wanted to take the story into many directions while maintaining a consistent tone. But, ultimately, this is Stella's story. But I also wanted to peek into the lives of the bad guys and show just how much perceptions often can be deceiving. The race thing was included (though I didn't want to make it a huge determining factor into the story's outcome) to make us fear for Stella a little bit more at the end. It was mainly a small detail that I thought would maybe subliminally linger in the back of the mind of the audience when Sheriff Hardley arrives. Will have to take another look at that.


Quoted Text
Again, great job in crafting a unique set of characters and situations, and kudos once again on your writing style. You definitely have your own voice, which will set you apart from other storytellers.


Thanks, AJR, I appreciate that. I know a lot of my responses sound like I'm defending the choices I made in the script, but I just wanted you to see what was going through my mind when writing it and making those decisions. My responses are pretty much just off the top of my head, didn't let all of your notes sink all the way in just yet. But all your notes are definitely worth considering and I'm sure many of them will sit with me and sink in as I go over the script more and more. Of course, not all audiences are going to think exactly like I think or even how the characters, I believe, should think. So everything is worth considering.

I really appreciate you taking out the time and offering some very thoughtful notes that others haven't even touched upon. Really good stuff. Let me know if you ever post anything or if you need anything read -- I have the time.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  April 12th, 2020, 2:03pm
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ajr
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Hey Michael,

Of course, I understand you defending your choices, as you should. And sure, I get what motivated you to write this, I was asking more about theme though. Horror films, and films in general, can be cautionary tales. A character makes a bad decision, things go to shit for 90 minutes, they extricate themselves from the peril (usually), and we the audience are left with a big fat "don't do that." And I'm not sure I'm right with my suggestions - it may be better that Stella kills Oscar.

You mentioned GET OUT. Which had incredible subtext, as you know. It was almost mind-bending. The fact that white people wanted to be in black bodies is an extremely sociopolitical statement. And something like NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET - while the film is "about" getting killed in your dreams, the theme is that the children will pay for the sins of the parents, which goes back to the Greek tragedians.

All that said, you can certainly craft a fun romp with interesting kills and an identifiable protag. With this piece, I don't think that the question is "can it be a movie?", because I think the answer is yes; it's about what type of movie, or, more specifically, how well received it will be. Will it be viewed as deep or classic by, say, Fangoria or Dread Central, or will it fall more in the popcorn-y good thrill, rompish kind of bucket. If that makes any sense. And both are cool. I think this is something you can succeed with.

Good luck with it!

AJR


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/

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spesh2k
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You mentioned GET OUT. Which had incredible subtext, as you know. It was almost mind-bending. The fact that white people wanted to be in black bodies is an extremely sociopolitical statement. And something like NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET - while the film is "about" getting killed in your dreams, the theme is that the children will pay for the sins of the parents, which goes back to the Greek tragedians.

All that said, you can certainly craft a fun romp with interesting kills and an identifiable protag. With this piece, I don't think that the question is "can it be a movie?", because I think the answer is yes; it's about what type of movie, or, more specifically, how well received it will be. Will it be viewed as deep or classic by, say, Fangoria or Dread Central, or will it fall more in the popcorn-y good thrill, rompish kind of bucket. If that makes any sense. And both are cool. I think this is something you can succeed with.


Yes, "Get Out" was amazing. And the fact that it was able to make deep, sociopolitical statements while still being a popcorn flick is a true and rare achievement, especially in horror. "Dawn of the Dead" pulled off satire well as did the original "Night of the Living Dead" and "28 Days Later". Sometimes, however, I feel like forcing an over-arching theme or message can hurt a film, specifically with "The Hunt", which was God awful and painfully obvious. Wasn't much subtext there. The "Purge" movies fell somewhere in between -- though I did enjoy all of them as popcorn flicks. I think it's more "what type of movie" rather than "how well received it will be". Not to say I wanted to create just another empty slasher film that will be celebrated for the kills.

But I still think it can be praised by Fangoria and say, Dread Central -- Dread Central gave my last feature film, "The Suicide Theory" four stars -- although that film had a more deep, philosophical purpose than I intended to create with "Honey Mustard". And it wasn't really a horror film. Point is, I don't believe every horror film needs to be a cautionary tale or satire to achieve critical acclaim.

I would compare this closer to films like, "You're Next" or "Don't Breathe", which I don't believe made any political statements or were morality tales outside of the obvious "don't underestimate the blind" or "prey on the weak" I guess -- it's possible I may have just missed the moral of that story/deeper message and it went over my head. Still, these are films that horror audiences view as modern classics (including myself).

I wanted to create something that was driven by the choices/mistakes of its characters during times of desperation and show how they dealt with the repercussions. With Stella, it was about finding a way to be free, not just from her circumstances, but the psychological prison she's put herself into because of her circumstances -- hiding her sexuality, being trapped in her own mind. And maybe I need to execute that part a little better and explore those themes a little more... while keeping the fast pace and meeting the expectations of a horror audience blood-thirsty for a killer slasher flick. I will explore some of the themes a little more and see if there's a way to make it seemed less forced -- if I CAN add a deeper meaning to this, it'll only benefit the story even more. So it is worth exploring further.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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ajr
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Yes, "Get Out" was amazing. And the fact that it was able to make deep, sociopolitical statements while still being a popcorn flick is a true and rare achievement, especially in horror. "Dawn of the Dead" pulled off satire well as did the original "Night of the Living Dead" and "28 Days Later". Sometimes, however, I feel like forcing an over-arching theme or message can hurt a film, specifically with "The Hunt", which was God awful and painfully obvious. Wasn't much subtext there. The "Purge" movies fell somewhere in between -- though I did enjoy all of them as popcorn flicks. I think it's more "what type of movie" rather than "how well received it will be". Not to say I wanted to create just another empty slasher film that will be celebrated for the kills.

But I still think it can be praised by Fangoria and say, Dread Central -- Dread Central gave my last feature film, "The Suicide Theory" four stars -- although that film had a more deep, philosophical purpose than I intended to create with "Honey Mustard". And it wasn't really a horror film. Point is, I don't believe every horror film needs to be a cautionary tale or satire to achieve critical acclaim.

I would compare this closer to films like, "You're Next" or "Don't Breathe", which I don't believe made any political statements or were morality tales outside of the obvious "don't underestimate the blind" or "prey on the weak" I guess -- it's possible I may have just missed the moral of that story/deeper message and it went over my head. Still, these are films that horror audiences view as modern classics (including myself).

I wanted to create something that was driven by the choices/mistakes of its characters during times of desperation and show how they dealt with the repercussions. With Stella, it was about finding a way to be free, not just from her circumstances, but the psychological prison she's put herself into because of her circumstances -- hiding her sexuality, being trapped in her own mind. And maybe I need to execute that part a little better and explore those themes a little more... while keeping the fast pace and meeting the expectations of a horror audience blood-thirsty for a killer slasher flick. I will explore some of the themes a little more and see if there's a way to make it seemed less forced -- if I CAN add a deeper meaning to this, it'll only benefit the story even more. So it is worth exploring further.

-- Michael


Cool. You are much more versed in this genre than I am, and I think you have a good handle on what you want to accomplish. Refreshing to see such a good writer be able to also talk shop on other films.

In that vein, I'm curious - did you see PEPPERMINT? I caught it the other night. I actually railed against it when it came out. I thought "why do we need a female DEATH WISH?" And when I saw Garner's performance, it broke me. She was SO good in portraying her agony. And then the system trying to buy her off, and her going underground.... yeah, I suspended belief, and bought that she trained herself to become a killing machine. And I thought it was cool how they incorporated social media into the story and made her a modern day Robin Hood. Of course, they fell into the trope of the drug dealer not wasting her at the end, and wanting to "play" and make her suffer... but hey... I watched it twice. And it's SO not my type of movie.

AJR


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/
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Quoted Text
Cool. You are much more versed in this genre than I am, and I think you have a good handle on what you want to accomplish. Refreshing to see such a good writer be able to also talk shop on other films.

In that vein, I'm curious - did you see PEPPERMINT? I caught it the other night. I actually railed against it when it came out. I thought "why do we need a female DEATH WISH?" And when I saw Garner's performance, it broke me. She was SO good in portraying her agony. And then the system trying to buy her off, and her going underground.... yeah, I suspended belief, and bought that she trained herself to become a killing machine. And I thought it was cool how they incorporated social media into the story and made her a modern day Robin Hood. Of course, they fell into the trope of the drug dealer not wasting her at the end, and wanting to "play" and make her suffer... but hey... I watched it twice. And it's SO not my type of movie.


I have not seen Peppermint yet -- I got the vibe that it wanted to be just another femme fatale flick, kinda like another "Salt", "Point of No Return", "Colombiana" or "Proud Mary". And I don't like to put too much into critic reviews, but there seemed to be a lot of hate for it. The most recent of these kinds of movies I was into was "Haywire", which I thought was well made. And my favorite EVER is "Long Kiss Goodnight" -- also one of my favorite titles to a movie. Speaking of another female "Death Wish", I did enjoy "Brave One", too, though it was much more grounded in reality, in line with the original "Death Wish". But, I am pretty bored and have seen pretty much everything during isolation, so if you say "Peppermint" is worth a look, God knows I have the time to watch it. I won't put too much expectation into it, though. The most that I can ask for is to be entertained.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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The synopsis was top notch.

I have just some minor things for you to consider (no game changers). My suggested changes in bold. Again - their real nits.


Quoted Text
Stella’s mental condition continuously spirals as she’s


Stella’s mental state continuously spirals downwards as she’s


Quoted Text
…when Stella pays a visit to their home in the middle of the woods.


...when Stella pays invades their home in the middle of the woods.

….once it’s revealed that Buford and his family aren’t exactly who we think they are.

...once it’s revealed that Buford isn’t exactly who we think he is and being a bad tipper was the least of his problems.

Last thought on the story - again - nit.

In your first scene there is the fight between Oscar and Stella about her being with another woman. Might be interesting if he mistakenly thinks it's a man. When Stella says she ain't been with another man it'd be the truth.

That would add a little unexpected kick when we meet Maltilda in the car - ad - it was a woman.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Oh, cool man, thanks for actually looking at the one-pager, I don't think anyone's done that, lol. I will definitely look it over again.


Quoted Text
In your first scene there is the fight between Oscar and Stella about her being with another woman. Might be interesting if he mistakenly thinks it's a man. When Stella says she ain't been with another man it'd be the truth.

That would add a little unexpected kick when we meet Maltilda in the car - ad - it was a woman.


Interesting thought. Not sure if the unexpected kick serves a purpose though. And I really wanted to get that homophobia across right away, to show that it's something that Stella is dealing with. Her hiding her sexuality and even denying it, I feel, is an important contributing factor to her cracking. That repressed feeling. Maybe I could explore that in other scenes, though. I dunno. Let me think about this one.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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ghost and_ghostie gal
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Sheesh, by the time I looked over the draft last week there's a third, If not fourth posted!  Not sure which.

Ok, so I'm not necessarily going to critique what you've done yet -- more like compliment. I will say that I enjoyed this very much.  But I didn’t love it.  Not a big fan of flashbacks. They're a tricky thing, but I like how you've used them here. Also, each character has his/her own voice. I can distinctly depict who is who.  This was a simple concept.  Maybe not the most original, but you've made it unique. You've done a pretty damn good job here!

If I could sum up the second/third acts. It definitely goes in a direction that is wild, and HAPPENED!...the story is crazy!

Trivial but I mention it anyway, too many dead people. This is the epitome of "overkill." The more bodies we encounter, the less potent the effect, bordering on maudlin.  That said -- I think you are okay on that front.

I could stop there.  But, you'd be disappointed if I didn't kick you in the nuts. We can't have that, now can we?

I'm no expert, Michael, but it would seem to me that the question is: whose story is it ? Is it primarily about a waitress whom the audience is going to relate to emotionally, or is it primarily about this whacked out nut-job mofo Buford who goes postal.

That I think is what you need to decide: The Die Hard flicks have great antags, but the story is always clearly about Bruce. Same with James Bond. In films like Terminator, the main guy is Arnold, whether he's good or bad. In Silence of the Lamb, you could argue that there are two protags, both the FBI Agent and the psychopath. But the killer has charm and manners and a certain respect for the other protag that make him likable. If you give too much attention to the bad guy, he will overtake your whole script, and the story becomes about him. And that might be a problem. Bad guys are frequently more interesting than the good guys, it's a real challenge for writers to make the good guys interesting (not saying that's the case here, Stella was interesting) when the bad guys are so much easier to write... there have been whole dissertations on this.  However - here you have Buford who I found not that likable, so don't make him the focus.  Although, on his likability, I'll admit - I'm probably the lone dissenter here.  

But then I put my writer's hat back on and -- my woman’s intuition tells me you have decided.  And it’s Stella.  I just wasn’t so sure.  If that's the case, then a friendly reminder to keep your concentration on Stella going forward, and her Hell Hath No Fury.  And think of Buford as a bonus. The cherry on the ice-cream.  

That would be my totally unprofessional advice.  Up to you, though. Just an opinion.

Disagree w/whathaveyou - but me'thinks Stella should’ve been the one to kill Buford.  But what was your thinking on having Sheriff Hardley do it?

I do have more substantive comments.  Maybe I'll post them later.

I profusely apologize... jaw drops. Better get some coffee... hmm. Maybe I’ll add a touch of Jack Daniels to it. -A


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spesh2k
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Hey Andrea,

Thanks for taking out the time to check this one out! Some great notes here, specifically one note you made that I fully agree with 100%. I've been stewing over it all week. But I'll get to that.


Quoted Text
Ok, so I'm not necessarily going to critique what you've done yet -- more like compliment. I will say that I enjoyed this very much.  But I didn�t love it.  Not a big fan of flashbacks. They're a tricky thing, but I like how you've used them here. Also, each character has his/her own voice. I can distinctly depict who is who.  This was a simple concept.  Maybe not the most original, but you've made it unique. You've done a pretty damn good job here!


Yeah, I wanted to take familiar slasher tropes and try to turn it on its a head a little bit. I knew the concept was simple so I wanted to mess around with structure a little bit and, although it's familiar territory in concept, I wanted to tell the story in a different way.


Quoted Text
Trivial but I mention it anyway, too many dead people. This is the epitome of "overkill." The more bodies we encounter, the less potent the effect, bordering on maudlin.  That said -- I think you are okay on that front.


Damn it, I kinda wanted to go overkill lol.


Quoted Text
I could stop there.  But, you'd be disappointed if I didn't kick you in the nuts. We can't have that, now can we?


We can all use a good kick in the nuts every so often haha.


Quoted Text
I'm no expert, Michael, but it would seem to me that the question is: whose story is it ? Is it primarily about a waitress whom the audience is going to relate to emotionally, or is it primarily about this whacked out nut-job mofo Buford who goes postal.


Ultimately, it is Stella's story. But I wanted to toy around with perception. Not just with the audience, but the characters. I know I say this is You're Next meets Don't Breathe. But there was another somewhat forgotten film that isn't a horror film that kinda inspired the story a little -- Changing Lanes with Samuel L. Jackson and Ben Affleck. I wanted to show two flawed, depraved characters having bad days and have their worlds collide. And I wanted to show how these two different characters would choose to prevail based on each of their individual circumstance and have their true natures revealed in the process. Good and bad is a matter of perception, albeit it skewed at times. And I wanted to show both sides and how each side perceives themselves vs how they perceive the other. And how their perceptions of each other aren't entirely correct. And how their perceptions of themselves, specifically Buford, are muddled.


Quoted Text
That I think is what you need to decide: The Die Hard flicks have great antags, but the story is always clearly about Bruce. Same with James Bond. In films like Terminator, the main guy is Arnold, whether he's good or bad. In Silence of the Lamb, you could argue that there are two protags, both the FBI Agent and the psychopath. But the killer has charm and manners and a certain respect for the other protag that make him likable. If you give too much attention to the bad guy, he will overtake your whole script, and the story becomes about him. And that might be a problem. Bad guys are frequently more interesting than the good guys, it's a real challenge for writers to make the good guys interesting (not saying that's the case here, Stella was interesting) when the bad guys are so much easier to write... there have been whole dissertations on this.  However - here you have Buford who I found not that likable, so don't make him the focus.  Although, on his likability, I'll admit - I'm probably the lone dissenter here.


I kinda disagree with you here a little bit. Yes, it can work following one character's journey. But it's been done so many times, over and over that it's become pretty much formula. The formula does work of course when done well. But that's not quite the direction I wanted to go. I wanted to tell a slasher story in a different way and see things from both sides -- then let the audience decide who they should root for rather than telling them who they should root for.

Also, some of the examples you have here don't really follow your Bruce Willis/Die Hard/James Bond template. Silence of the Lambs was, by far, Jodie Foster's story. The first Terminator was Sarah Connor's story while the 2nd one was John Connor's story. It was Arnold's character that drove the narrative in each one, though -- he was the Jason Voorhees/Michael Myers character in the 1st one. And he was the muscle/protector in the 2nd one. But he was not the main guy, he only existed because of the main characters in both films.

In regards to "Honey Mustard", I wanted well-rounded characters with their own distinctive arcs. And I wanted to mess with audience perception -- I wanted them to see Stella as that Jason Voorhess type character. And, if you look at all those slasher films, most of the audience is rooting for the killer most of the time, so I wanted to play with that a little bit. And then, when it's revealed that she's actually not the bad guy, the audience can feel good about rooting for her. I didn't want to make Buford TOO likable, even when we're led to believe he and his family are the victims. But I wanted to make him somewhat identifiable and somewhat of a sympathetic character, albeit flawed. And then I wanted the audience/reader to almost hate themselves for even considering rooting for him as his home is being invaded, eventually finding out what he and his family really are.


Quoted Text
But then I put my writer's hat back on and -- my woman�s intuition tells me you have decided.  And it�s Stella.  I just wasn�t so sure.  If that's the case, then a friendly reminder to keep your concentration on Stella going forward, and her Hell Hath No Fury.  And think of Buford as a bonus. The cherry on the ice-cream.


I see what you're saying, but then I'm running the risk of telling a very predictable, Blake Snyder-beat-for-beat-template of a story, void of plot twists and revelations. It becomes another Kill Bill wannabe, at least IMO. I wanted their stories to collide, then dovetail again until another collision -- revealing who they truly are. Look at a film like, "No Country For Old Men" for example. Yes, it's totally Josh Brolin's story, but Anton Chigurh's existence in that plot plays a pretty massive role, almost equal to the protagonist's. Then look at "Don't Breathe" (one of my favorite horror films of the decade)... same deal. The protags are the bad guys for breaking into a blind man's house. But then we realize that the blind man is pretty fucking evil and we find ourselves rooting for the home invaders. Both sides are given the same amount of backstory and focus.


Quoted Text
That would be my totally unprofessional advice.  Up to you, though. Just an opinion.


I gotcha.


Quoted Text
Disagree w/whathaveyou - but me'thinks Stella should�ve been the one to kill Buford.  But what was your thinking on having Sheriff Hardley do it?


Now, this is the one I 100% agree with. I've stewing over this all week and I really think that, not only should Stella kill Buford, but she should also save Sheriff Hardley in the process.


Quoted Text
I profusely apologize... jaw drops. Better get some coffee... hmm. Maybe I�ll add a touch of Jack Daniels to it. -A


Sounds delish!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Also, some of the examples you have here don't really follow your Bruce Willis/Die Hard/James Bond template. Silence of the Lambs was, by far, Jodie Foster's story. The first Terminator was Sarah Connor's story while the 2nd one was John Connor's story. It was Arnold's character that drove the narrative in each one, though -- he was the Jason Voorhees/Michael Myers character in the 1st one. And he was the muscle/protector in the 2nd one. But he was not the main guy, he only existed because of the main characters in both films.


Ugh, you are so right.  Stronger coffee.

I hearby withdraw my deductions and shy away to the corner whilst the other SS'ers point, laugh and in some cases throw rotten vege.


Quoted Text
Blake Snyder-beat-for-beat-template of a story, void of plot twists and revelations. It becomes another Kill Bill wannabe, at least IMO. I wanted their stories to collide, then dovetail again until another collision -- revealing who they truly are. Look at a film like, "No Country For Old Men" for example. Yes, it's totally Josh Brolin's story, but Anton Chigurh's existence in that plot plays a pretty massive role, almost equal to the protagonist's. Then look at "Don't Breathe" (one of my favorite horror films of the decade)... same deal. The protags are the bad guys for breaking into a blind man's house. But then we realize that the blind man is pretty fucking evil and we find ourselves rooting for the home invaders. Both sides are given the same amount of backstory and focus.


Ah, gotcha. Fair enough.


Quoted Text
Now, this is the one I 100% agree with. I've stewing over this all week and I really think that, not only should Stella kill Buford, but she should also save Sheriff Hardley in the process.


Haha.  Hey, that's not a bad idea.  Glad you might have found something useful in my stream-of-consciousness bullshit.

Anyhoo - Honey Mustard was entertaining. Witty- Like i said, I liked it very much. It was fast, fun, and easy to read.

You’re a fantastic writer, Michael, not sure why you haven’t been repped.  Or are you?  -Andrea


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spesh2k
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Ugh, you are so right.  Stronger coffee.

I hearby withdraw my deductions and shy away to the corner whilst the other SS'ers point, laugh and in some cases throw rotten vege.


I see the point you were making. I wasn't saying you were wrong. And you weren't the first to mention it. It's just my personal opinion that not all stories with a bad guy and good guy have to follow the same formula structurally. Stories that follow a protag battling it out with the antag where we immediately know who's who, work and work often. It's a proven formula. But it's not the only way to tell a story. I feel like following the same template can be limiting sometimes. Not saying that going against formula always works, a lot of the time, it doesn't. But the same could be said for any storytelling technique if not done effectively. In this instance, I think it should be up to the audience/reader who they should root for naturally without telling them who to root for. While taking them for a little bit of a ride in the process.

My 2nd favorite film of all time (Taxi Driver being #1) is Psycho. I loved how they told that story, making us think this is Janet Lee's film... and then killing her off a half-hour in. Then, all of a sudden, it's this weird, mama's boy's story, trying to hide the crimes of his mother. And then, of course, I'm sure you know how the rest of that movie plays out (I won't give away any spoilers, but most people probably know the twist there).

I'm not saying I'm some brave, innovative, cavalier writer going against the grain, because the script really isn't completely breaking new ground.


Quoted Text
Haha.  Hey, that's not a bad idea.  Glad you might have found something useful in my stream-of-consciousness bullshit.


It's something I've been mulling over, but you've definitely helped clear it up for me -- I didn't really come to find out how I would handle the ending until you mentioned it. Which I appreciate. It IS the ending of the story, after all, so it's a pretty big note you made. And will probably be the biggest part of the next rewrite. Thank you!


Quoted Text
Anyhoo - Honey Mustard was entertaining. Witty- Like i said, I liked it very much. It was fast, fun, and easy to read.

You’re a fantastic writer, Michael, not sure why you haven’t been repped.  Or are you?  -Andrea


Nah, I'm cheap, I don't want someone taking 10% (plus an extra 15 with a manager). Of course, I'm kidding, I'd much rather have representation. But most of my stuff that's been produced, in particular the features, have been niche, indie films. I've never really written anything that has serious market value or broad appeal. But I really think I have that with "Honey Mustard". There's a massive market for horror out there. Of course, with managers, a lot of them are looking to sign writers with at least 3 really, really impressive, high-concept, broad appeal screenplays. And I just don't have that -- unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), my last project, I spent 6 months writing a script I was hired for, which got produced. The movie is actually really, really good, better than my first film. But it won't be released for a little bit. And my script before that bounced around a bit -- I did option it and got paid kinda/sorta okay for the option. But then it expired and I decided to develop it with an indie horror boutique prod. co in NYC with some horror actor friends. Both scripts I feel were really good, it's just that I can't shop them or include them with my package of scripts.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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Okay, to those who've already read this (your notes have been invaluable!), this is the new ending. The script is now 93 pages. And the rewrite to the ending starts at page 85. A big thanks to Andrea, especially, for the suggestion! It was definitely something I've been mulling over, but I didn't know how exactly I was going to execute the new ending until she said something about it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3fCGwMw0lAJsGHxeOCkuh9Zx3og0z6U/view?usp=sharing

I'm sure the full, updated draft will be up in a few days or so, for anyone who hasn't read previous drafts of the script.

Thanks again to everybody for the amazing notes!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k
Okay, to those who've already read this (your notes have been invaluable!), this is the new ending. The script is now 93 pages. And the rewrite to the ending starts at page 85. A big thanks to Andrea, especially, for the suggestion! It was definitely something I've been mulling over, but I didn't know how exactly I was going to execute the new ending until she said something about it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3fCGwMw0lAJsGHxeOCkuh9Zx3og0z6U/view?usp=sharing

I'm sure the full, updated draft will be up in a few days or so, for anyone who hasn't read previous drafts of the script.

Thanks again to everybody for the amazing notes!

-- Michael


Bueno - I like this ending better



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Mr.Ripley
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Hey Michael,

Read the first 10 and will continue to read further.

SPOILERS!

It reminds me of Falling Down just more violent.  

You’re already referencing the honey mustard lol.  

I would’ve expected a buildup of the anger and implosion against the husband. But I’ll see how the story progresses.

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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ghost and_ghostie gal
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Whoops!  There it is.

I echo Dave’s comment.  Very, very nicely done.

One more iddy biddy thing; I’m glad to see you went back and gave Captive Woman a name. -A


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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Bueno - I like this ending better


Thanks, David.


Quoted Text
Hey Michael,

Read the first 10 and will continue to read further.

SPOILERS!

It reminds me of Falling Down just more violent.  

You’re already referencing the honey mustard lol.  

I would’ve expected a buildup of the anger and implosion against the husband. But I’ll see how the story progresses.

Gabe


Hey Gabe! Thanks for taking a look!

As for the build-up of anger and implosion... their relationship started way before the story began. And she's been dealing with years of abuse up to this point. I'd say it's had plenty of time to build up.


Quoted Text
Whoops!  There it is.

I echo Dave’s comment.  Very, very nicely done.

One more iddy biddy thing; I’m glad to see you went back and gave Captive Woman a name. -A


Thanks again, Andrea. Yeah, I was reading through the dialogue and put myself in her shoes more. If I was held captive, I'd definitely give my name to a cop.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  April 14th, 2020, 5:47pm
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medstudent
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Michael, first, thank you for the insightful review of my script. It gives me much to work with. Thank you.

I haven't read any of the above reviews so if some of this is redundant, forgive me.

GENERAL THOUGHTS

I thought this was a really solid script. It read well, was faced paced and when it started it never let up. I can see this being produced in an (much more sophisticated) 80’s slasher style. As is, it is definitely a producible and marketable film that should sell with the right pitch. I love the twists and turns. Reminds me of Parasite where the turn around one corner leads to another, and another. The idea of a family of serial killers is not new though this came off as refreshing. What I like most about the idea of a family of killers is that each family member (while capable of killing) does it in their own particular way, with a particular feeling or style. One cool and calculated, the other maniacal, another bumbling…

While the script is really bloody good, a script could always use tightening in places. I think with Honey Mustard, highlighting and polishing each character would be the focus of the next rewrite. Pushing the characters to the edges of their most egregious traits would make this thing shine even more than it already does.  As is, Stella doesn’t have a trait that defines her (except the beaten housewife), Matilda=Stella’s protector, Buford=the down-on-his-luck all American Father, Newton=picked on loner (with a monster inside), Gertrude=the protective hen-mother, Sheriff=the small town, good-ol-boy cop who, despite his flaws tends to do the right thing at the right time…

I would take these character traits to their extremes with dialogue, subtle action, etc.

Besides that, my only gripe was the ending lingered too much and the longline needs work. I dunno, maybe just me. I felt like the ending dragged on a wee bit. But, again, if looked at through the lens of 80’s slasher then it may be just right.

For the logline, as is, it wouldn't interest me to read this. It doesn't do the script justice and people may pass on a stellar script because of it.



SPECIFIC THOUGHTS

Way to jump into the action. A little jarring to open the film with rape-sex but I think it works. It might be interesting to start with just the opposite… Beautiful day with Stella and Matilda enjoying themselves alone then, BANG something brings Stella back to the harsh reality of her life at that moment.

I like the subtle character play with Buford and his son. One action line tells us everything we need to know about Buford - him giving his toast to his son. Well done.

Malitilda is supposed to be Stella’s protector. I’d ramp up her reaction to Donnie.

I do like how you built tension in this scene. It works really well.  Her devolution into complete madness plays well.

Not sure you need the “earlier that night” flashback. I think he gets it.

Oh wow. This turn of events is good.


BUFORD (CONT’D)
It was my job to protect you from
this mess. I failed. And there’s no coming back now. Not from this.

Not sure this works here.

Page 72. This whole sequence seems out of place. I think would work better if Newton were older. I just don’t feel like a “normal” kid of that age would have being close to a woman other than his mother as a motivation. I dunno.

Pages 73-75. I like his dual and opposing personalities. Like the Hulk. His monster only comes out when needed. The rest of the time he is a likable, soft, loving person. Like a guy who’s constantly compensating for the maniac hiding within. I would push to the edges of this trait then pull back from it a bit.

Page 78 “She narrows HER eyes at him”

Page 81. I don’t see Gertrude killing like that. It’s too easy to have all 3 of your main characters killing machines. I think, like Stella, she would kill out of desperation. It seems too casual as is.

Page 85.
STELLA We leave, I guess.

Just have them leave in the next scene.

Page 87. No! I wanted to see Captive Woman live.

Page 89. Too many “I thought they were dead but they’re not” moments.


Overall, great job, Michael.  I would recommend giving this a read. 9/10



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spesh2k
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Hey, Joseph, thanks for checking this out. Your notes were on point.


Quoted Text
Michael, first, thank you for the insightful review of my script. It gives me much to work with. Thank you.


No problem man, it was an easy read.


Quoted Text
GENERAL THOUGHTS

I thought this was a really solid script. It read well, was faced paced and when it started it never let up. I can see this being produced in an (much more sophisticated) 80’s slasher style. As is, it is definitely a producible and marketable film that should sell with the right pitch. I love the twists and turns. Reminds me of Parasite where the turn around one corner leads to another, and another. The idea of a family of serial killers is not new though this came off as refreshing. What I like most about the idea of a family of killers is that each family member (while capable of killing) does it in their own particular way, with a particular feeling or style. One cool and calculated, the other maniacal, another bumbling…


Thanks, man. I kinda wanted to see what would happen if a Jason Voorhees/Michael Myers character (Stella, at first) crossed paths with the Sawyer family from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, although a little more subtle, grounded and less bat-shit bonkers. Although it still gets pretty nuts, I wanted to build to it.


Quoted Text
While the script is really bloody good, a script could always use tightening in places. I think with Honey Mustard, highlighting and polishing each character would be the focus of the next rewrite. Pushing the characters to the edges of their most egregious traits would make this thing shine even more than it already does.  As is, Stella doesn’t have a trait that defines her (except the beaten housewife), Matilda=Stella’s protector, Buford=the down-on-his-luck all American Father, Newton=picked on loner (with a monster inside), Gertrude=the protective hen-mother, Sheriff=the small town, good-ol-boy cop who, despite his flaws tends to do the right thing at the right time…

I would take these character traits to their extremes with dialogue, subtle action, etc.


Great point. Wanted to look into adding just subtle quirks, specifically for the Stella and Gertrude characters -- although it couldn't hurt to sprinkle that around to all the characters. For Stella, I thought about having her do little, subtle things. Like you said, quirks. Still thinking that part over. For Gertrude, I was thinking of a few things, like maybe she's a clean freak who gets annoyed by blood on the carpet, or something small like that. Still thinking that one over, too.


Quoted Text
Besides that, my only gripe was the ending lingered too much and the longline needs work. I dunno, maybe just me. I felt like the ending dragged on a wee bit. But, again, if looked at through the lens of 80’s slasher then it may be just right.

For the logline, as is, it wouldn't interest me to read this. It doesn't do the script justice and people may pass on a stellar script because of it.


I wanted to give that 80's, schlocky slasher kinda vibe in the log line, even though the script is more than that. I think, if the film does get made, that it would be the best way to market the film, as it would be attractive to a hardcore horror audience -- and then exceed their expectations. While still having fun and getting the kills in, it tells the story in a different way and has some twists and tricks up its sleeve a bit. But I get what you're saying -- a production company might just think it's yet another mindless slasher screenplay going strictly by the log line. I'll work on that a little bit.


Quoted Text
SPECIFIC THOUGHTS

Way to jump into the action. A little jarring to open the film with rape-sex but I think it works. It might be interesting to start with just the opposite… Beautiful day with Stella and Matilda enjoying themselves alone then, BANG something brings Stella back to the harsh reality of her life at that moment.


Interesting thought. I kinda wanted to give off that depraved vibe right away, from the jump. But it's worth thinking about.


Quoted Text
I like the subtle character play with Buford and his son. One action line tells us everything we need to know about Buford - him giving his toast to his son. Well done.


Yeah, I thought it was a good way to mislead the audience and misdirect them. And, even though we find out that Buford's an evil fuck, he is still a family man, first and foremost. Which is a redeemable trait.


Quoted Text
Malitilda is supposed to be Stella’s protector. I’d ramp up her reaction to Donnie.


Noted.


Quoted Text
I do like how you built tension in this scene. It works really well.  Her devolution into complete madness plays well.


Cool.


Quoted Text
Not sure you need the “earlier that night” flashback. I think he gets it.


Noted.


Quoted Text
Oh wow. This turn of events is good.


Fucking sweet.


Quoted Text
BUFORD (CONT’D)
It was my job to protect you from
this mess. I failed. And there’s no coming back now. Not from this.

Not sure this works here.


I'll look into this a bit. I do think it works, but could enhance it a bit to show just how disappointed Buford is.


Quoted Text
Page 72. This whole sequence seems out of place. I think would work better if Newton were older. I just don’t feel like a “normal” kid of that age would have being close to a woman other than his mother as a motivation. I dunno.


I don't know about that. When I was 15, all I really cared about was smoking weed and getting laid.


Quoted Text
Page 78 “She narrows HER eyes at him”


Good catch, thanks.


Quoted Text
Page 81. I don’t see Gertrude killing like that. It’s too easy to have all 3 of your main characters killing machines. I think, like Stella, she would kill out of desperation. It seems too casual as is.


Maybe. She is kinda killing out of desperation (at least the cops), although she's a little more casual than she maybe should be. And she's pretty sure her husband has just been killed. And she is nuts (the whole family is). I'd imagine she'd want some retribution.


Quoted Text
Page 87. No! I wanted to see Captive Woman live.


Sorry, man.


Quoted Text
Page 89. Too many “I thought they were dead but they’re not” moments.


It was kind of a running joke, especially in the early drafts -- the 1st draft, specifically. I even acknowledge it by having one of the characters saying, "Now, is there anybody else you think is dead that might not be dead?" I didn't write it exactly like that, but that's the gist. Was thinking of throwing in a funny line to acknowledge it. I'll see if it works.


Quoted Text
Overall, great job, Michael.  I would recommend giving this a read. 9/10


Thanks again, Joseph, appreciate you taking out the time. Glad you enjoyed it!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
Posted: April 21st, 2020, 2:40pm Report to Moderator
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Okay, another rewrite. For those who've read this already, I didn't make any wildly drastic changes that would warrant another read. But I do thank everyone for their notes, it's really helped. I don't think I'm too far off...

The link at the top of the thread should be updated with this draft soon...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3fCGwMw0lAJsGHxeOCkuh9Zx3og0z6U/view?usp=sharing

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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stampede331
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Up to page 20.  Enjoying it very much so far.  I unfortunately saw that there is a big twist halfway through while scrolling through the critiques, but I don't know what it is.  Will read more tomorrow and am looking forward to this reveal
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Mr.Ripley
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Hey Michael,

Got to finish the draft that’s posted on the first thread.

Spoilers!

When the key to the basement was mentioned, had an inkling that bumford was up to no good. Thought he was murderer not the later.

Interesting in that it’s a family business.

Enjoyed the twist.

Personally, I don’t see any script problems except maybe to find better scene environments to reduce the script budget like diner, murders, etc. But that’s script production stuff not screenwriting. I enjoy you’re writing overall.  

Hope this helps,

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Hey Michael,

Got to finish the draft that’s posted on the first thread.

Spoilers!

When the key to the basement was mentioned, had an inkling that bumford was up to no good. Thought he was murderer not the later.

Interesting in that it’s a family business.

Enjoyed the twist.

Personally, I don’t see any script problems except maybe to find better scene environments to reduce the script budget like diner, murders, etc. But that’s script production stuff not screenwriting. I enjoy you’re writing overall.  

Hope this helps,

Gabe


Thanks a lot for checking out the script, Gabe! Glad you enjoyed it!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Up to page 20.  Enjoying it very much so far.  I unfortunately saw that there is a big twist halfway through while scrolling through the critiques, but I don't know what it is.  Will read more tomorrow and am looking forward to this reveal


Cool, man. Hope you enjoy it.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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stampede331
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Just laughed on page 49 when the wife blurts out, sorry he didn't tip you.  Good way to temper the tenseness with levity that still isn't all that levity inducing.

Just got to the big twist.  Of course!  Why would Stella kill Matilda.  This twist was good.  
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Just laughed on page 49 when the wife blurts out, sorry he didn't tip you.  Good way to temper the tenseness with levity that still isn't all that levity inducing.

Just got to the big twist.  Of course!  Why would Stella kill Matilda.  This twist was good.  


Cool man, glad you're liking it so far. I like SOME comedy in my horror, whether it's in something I write or something I watch... when it's appropriate, of course. I think it can work well, especially in fun, good old fashioned slashers.

Yeah, going in knowing there's a twist can kinda kill the surprise element a little bit, but glad you liked it.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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stampede331
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So I just finished.  This was tough to stop reading.  I dig your style.  I'm glad there was a protagonist because a third of the way through, I was starting to think there was nobody to root for.

Regarding their basement...I wish I hadn't seen some of the critiques while scrolling down because I had the feeling it was a house of horrors.  That said, I thought they were going to be shown to be white supremacists, so the fact that they were sexually enslaving women to be sold on the dark web still threw me for a loop.

I really like Stella's character.  Her motivations are pure, simple and well understood.

I also liked the use of Oscar and Matilda as the angel and devil on her shoulder.  It helped build the suspense and keep her character engaged with the reality facing her.  I almost shudder to say that without Oscar's presence in her life, she might not have survived.  Having Oscar as a husband may have toughened her up to survive an ordeal like this one.

I also like that Hardley was able to redeem himself.  Yeah he's a bit of a simpleton but isn't that the secondary job of being a sheriff.

I felt this could almost be under the rubric of suspense rather than horror because none of this scared me per se.  It is bloody, yes, but not scary.  Then again, Mulholland Drive scares me more than any movie I've ever seen, so I'm not sure I'm scared in the conventional ways.

Overall, I really dug the script and enjoyed the epilogue as well.
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
So I just finished.  This was tough to stop reading.  I dig your style.  I'm glad there was a protagonist because a third of the way through, I was starting to think there was nobody to root for.


That's good to hear (the tough to stop reading part). As for starting think there was nobody to root for a third of the way in, that might be something to work on. Rather than tell the audience who to root for, my intention was to have them choose who to root for... I wanted to build empathy for Stella yet kinda have the audience root for Buford and his family... for at least 10-15 pages. Yet, I wanted a lot of the characters to be unlikable so that, like in traditional slasher movies, you kind of almost want them to die or, in this case, kinda don't mind that they're already dead. I guess I was trying to play off the "Joker" type vibe of empathizing for the character but being frightened of them at the same time as the character continues to spiral.


Quoted Text
Regarding their basement...I wish I hadn't seen some of the critiques while scrolling down because I had the feeling it was a house of horrors.  That said, I thought they were going to be shown to be white supremacists, so the fact that they were sexually enslaving women to be sold on the dark web still threw me for a loop.


This got me thinking that maybe I should show some racism on Buford's part... maybe when they're considering selling Stella off (because of her condition). Maybe he sees her skin color as a drawback, his wife thinking that he's talking about purely her condition.


Quoted Text
I really like Stella's character.  Her motivations are pure, simple and well understood.


Thanks. She's not a very joyful character, but I hope people can identify with hers somewhat.


Quoted Text
I also liked the use of Oscar and Matilda as the angel and devil on her shoulder.  It helped build the suspense and keep her character engaged with the reality facing her.  I almost shudder to say that without Oscar's presence in her life, she might not have survived.  Having Oscar as a husband may have toughened her up to survive an ordeal like this one.


Very true. Even if Stella didn't kill Oscar at the beginning, it's highly possible that the same thing would have happened at the diner. But, then again, Stella's in a psychotic fog during her shift, causing her to be a shitty waiter kinda, which sort of sets Buford off even more. Though, after not getting another job (and killing the people at the employment agency), it's still probably that he would've snapped.


Quoted Text
I also like that Hardley was able to redeem himself.  Yeah he's a bit of a simpleton but isn't that the secondary job of being a sheriff.


Yeah, I didn't want everything to be so black and white. I had him act racist out of frustration (and he's somewhat of a homophobe). It's not until his daughter dies that he regrets disowning her. And it's not until that he finds out that it wasn't Stella that he kinda lets go of his racist thoughts -- he's not racist per se, but he's said some dumb racist shit out of anger. Part of that probably comes from the conservative town he's from.


Quoted Text
I felt this could almost be under the rubric of suspense rather than horror because none of this scared me per se.  It is bloody, yes, but not scary.  Then again, Mulholland Drive scares me more than any movie I've ever seen, so I'm not sure I'm scared in the conventional ways.


I still think it's definitely horror -- in the vein of movies like "Don't Breathe", "You're Next", "Green Room" and a little bit of "Devil's Rejects". It's not huge on scares like, "Halloween" or like in paranormal flicks and possession flicks. It's more dependent on tense moments (with the occasional jump scare) rather than all out scares. And yes, the violence and gore definitely makes this horror IMO.


Quoted Text
Overall, I really dug the script and enjoyed the epilogue as well.


Thanks man, I really appreciate the read and the comments.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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stampede331
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I wouldn't take my "nobody to root for" comment to heart.  It's because of the skill of the implementation of the twist in uprooting our expectations over which character is the killer that I wasn't quite sure whether I should root for Stella.  Once the obviousness of the deviance of Buford became clear, I could sit back and root for Stella to get out of this messy evening.  And again, it never made sense why Stella would kill Matilda, so your set up in creating the whole bloody affair has a great payoff when we realize perhaps our own expectations or subtle racist inclinations lead us to believe it must be Stella, when in fact, this makes no logical sense, even with her having killed her husband in self-defense.  So again, I think you did a good job in establishing the protagonist.  

Also, I've actually never seen those movies you referenced as horror.  When it comes to horror, I generally have just seen the classics, so I'm clearly no authority on what qualifies as horror.  I just know that my interest never waned but I wasn't scared so much as I was on an adrenaline rush reading this, hoping Stella would get to avenge her lover and save her own life.
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Quoted Text
I wouldn't take my "nobody to root for" comment to heart.  It's because of the skill of the implementation of the twist in uprooting our expectations over which character is the killer that I wasn't quite sure whether I should root for Stella.  Once the obviousness of the deviance of Buford became clear, I could sit back and root for Stella to get out of this messy evening.  And again, it never made sense why Stella would kill Matilda, so your set up in creating the whole bloody affair has a great payoff when we realize perhaps our own expectations or subtle racist inclinations lead us to believe it must be Stella, when in fact, this makes no logical sense, even with her having killed her husband in self-defense.  So again, I think you did a good job in establishing the protagonist.


Yes! That was one of my goals... not to necessarily expose the audience as subtle racists lol. But to kinda use race juuuust a little bit as a subtle device, affecting the audience's perceptions of the characters. I didn't want to use race as a main theme because it's just too obvious and it's been done to death. Rather than making racism and homophobia the major, over-arching theme, I wanted to sprinkle it in just a bit to affect the perceptions of the characters towards each other as well as OUR perceptions of the characters as the story unfolds. I personally hate when a movie continuously tries to beat me over the head with some sort of obvious lesson.

When Sheriff Hardley loses his daughter (we don't know why exactly their relationship is strained early on), he says something racist when he suspects Stella as the killer. And we can identify with his anger, almost looking past that subtle little racist comment he says (about the color of his daughter's car). Meanwhile, somewhat subliminally, there's a part of us, the audience, that says, "Well, that racist comment was uncalled for", so even though we're led to believe that Stella may have killed all those people at the diner, there's a part of us defending her because of that subtle little racist line. So, we don't lose her completely. Now, as a person of color myself who's dealt with some racist cops before (I was roughed up pretty good for looking like someone else), there's the "minority" portion of the audience that can totally relate to her. And there's a preconceived notion with cops sometimes being racist -- this has been an issue for years. So that also prevents us from completely rooting against Stella. But yet somehow, we're identifying with Sheriff Hardley's pain and anger. If that makes any sense...

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Talldave
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I'll go in random order by what I want to write about first...

What was my favorite thing: The pacing of your action and suspense. From the initial shootout at the Blumpkin household and on I was in the zone and couldn't stop reading. Slam dunk.

Before that point, I almost stopped reading. Glad I didn't, but the first twenty pages or so were my least favorite of the script. She kills her abusive husband, but it doesn't feel very powerful. I think it's a brutal scene, but I wished the brutality was a bit more emotional. I'm assuming all this gore and sex is for fulfilling niche expectations? It's not a niche I know very well, so I'm assuming this first part is to quench your niche's thirst before you start hitting your stride.

The twists were fantastic throughout. You didn't M. Night Shyamalan me, so I appreciate that. You used them really effectively, and mixed perfectly with great action, I think that's what helps make this script so entertaining to read. It's fun for all the right reasons.

My input: If you are interested in completely reworking half the script (if you're not feel free to ignore the rest of this), I'd love to see Buford get a bullet in the eye when looking through the door hole around P. 40. Kill him early, and then let the twist hit much closer to end of the script. Have it play out like Stella is hunting down Gertrude and Newton (they're so defenseless!). Really convince us that Stella is a psycho killer, Gertrude and Newton are victims, and when she is taken down by Newton or Gertrude we think, "Hooray! They're safe!" Then, we see that Stella is locked up in some hellish dungeon, and it all comes out like a flood of oh, fuck!

Totally understand it's not my place to say rewrite half the script, but I figured I'd offer some food for thought.
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
What was my favorite thing: The pacing of your action and suspense. From the initial shootout at the Blumpkin household and on I was in the zone and couldn't stop reading. Slam dunk.


Cool.


Quoted Text
Before that point, I almost stopped reading. Glad I didn't, but the first twenty pages or so were my least favorite of the script. She kills her abusive husband, but it doesn't feel very powerful. I think it's a brutal scene, but I wished the brutality was a bit more emotional. I'm assuming all this gore and sex is for fulfilling niche expectations? It's not a niche I know very well, so I'm assuming this first part is to quench your niche's thirst before you start hitting your stride.


By emotional, do you mean her crying? Or maybe more hesitation? You may be right. As for all the gore and sex... there really isn't much sex in this outside of the opening scene. But, as a David Cronenberg fan, I learned that sex is a great way to reveal character. He did it wonderfully in "A History of Violence", especially. Here, with this sex scene at the beginning, you immediately understand the dynamic of this relationship. So, that was my reasoning for that. As for "niche", I wrote this for a horror audience, which may be considered niche, but it's a pretty big niche... horror films, even trashy ones (not saying mine is trashy) have a high success rate when it comes to earning back their budgets. If I could go back in time, I would've made my first film a horror film -- it's been five years and we just got out of the red and I still haven't seen any residuals. Anyway... yes, in a way, I'm giving horror fans expecting a slasher movie what they want, which is gore. But the gore, specifically in this scene, is deserved, at least I think so. I suppose I can make the Stella character cry and sob, and I may still go that direction, but I hate over-emoting and I can't stand overly melodramatic scenes unless they're well earned. Perhaps she can have an emotional outburst of tears, I'll think on that. But opening a scene with the character getting all weepy after killing her abusive husband, who's abused her for years, wasn't quite the tone I was going for, I guess I wanna say. Call it cheap, but it's easy to root for and justify an abused woman murdering an unlikable monster like her husband. If I saw it in a theater, I'd cheer my ass off for her. That being said, I still might consider adding more emotion to the scene, though I don't wanna write it like I'm trying to win an Oscar, if you get what I mean. I guess for the first 20 or so page, I was trying to build up to the madness that was going to ensue, show how her mental health was spiraling, a little bit like "Joker", and make us really buy her killing all those people. Is it a little cold? Yeah, but it was by design. I'll still have to think this over a bit.


Quoted Text
My input: If you are interested in completely reworking half the script (if you're not feel free to ignore the rest of this), I'd love to see Buford get a bullet in the eye when looking through the door hole around P. 40. Kill him early, and then let the twist hit much closer to end of the script. Have it play out like Stella is hunting down Gertrude and Newton (they're so defenseless!). Really convince us that Stella is a psycho killer, Gertrude and Newton are victims, and when she is taken down by Newton or Gertrude we think, "Hooray! They're safe!" Then, we see that Stella is locked up in some hellish dungeon, and it all comes out like a flood of oh, fuck!


I definitely considered this. In fact, in the first draft -- well, before I finished the first draft -- I had Buford getting killed at the page 30 mark. Now, I think it could've worked had I changed the Newton character around... I did have the torture dungeon in a shed outside originally, so Newton could've sneaked up on Stella right there if she had shot Buford through the peephole (which is something that's been done way too many times, I've already done that in two scripts I've written). Now, the one issue with that, which kept me from writing beyond that point, is Stella no longer becomes a sympathetic character. She had no idea that the family were sex traffickers and only wanted to kill Buford knowing what he did. So, she'd be trying to kill a seemingly innocent mother and son. Even after the reveal that the mother and son are sex traffickers and not innocent, you still go back and think -- "Oh, well Stella was gonna kill them anyway, regardless if they did anything wrong"... which makes her, essentially, a psychopath and an accidental hero. Which has worked in movies, like "Taxi Driver". But I wanted the audience to root for Stella much sooner than the end of the story. And since Buford killed Matilda, I felt it appropriate to kill Buford last and have him be the main heavy. I did very much consider killing Buford early as I thought it would be reminiscent of "Psycho" and thought it'd be pretty cool... and I'm sure I could've maybe made it work somehow. But, my philosophy with screenplays is that if you change one little detail, it has a ripple effect and changes the story completely. So, a 20 page rewrite isn't a 20 page rewrite... it's a full, page one rewrite. Every scene should have its purpose and each scene should affect the scenes that come after it. Take out one scene, you don't have the same movie and the story just doesn't fit together. Now, I would consider doing a full page one rewrite if I had to, to make the script better. But I've already seriously considered killing Buford early and even had it in the outline... but it just didn't really work. And I think part of the reason why the twists work so well, at least according to me, is because they happen when you least expect them. Not saying that I'm against twist endings -- I pulled a Shyamalan with my first movie (to mixed thoughts), and I've seen some great twist endings in my time, but forcing a surprise ending, like most movies with forced surprise endings (they usually suck more times than they work), just feels, well... forced. And, with forced twist endings, you run the risk of leaving the crowd feeling cheated. And that's how it felt to me when I thought about saving the twist for the ending, specifically these twists. It just felt like I'd be cramming all these surprises into the ending.  


Quoted Text
Totally understand it's not my place to say rewrite half the script, but I figured I'd offer some food for thought.


No problem, man. All worthwhile suggestions that I've considered myself. But, as I said, there's no such thing as rewriting HALF a script. If I take out one scene, it changes the whole dynamic of the whole script, pretty much. And I really did consider the big change you suggested long before I finished a 1st draft. But it just didn't work for me.

Thanks for taking the time out to read and comment, much appreciated!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  April 28th, 2020, 10:16pm
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spesh2k
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All right, so another rewrite...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3fCGwMw0lAJsGHxeOCkuh9Zx3og0z6U/view?usp=sharing

For those who've read it, no need to go through the script again. This is what I changed since earlier:

- Before the title card, instead of her licking the honey mustard, I have her scream (kinda like a war cry) down at Oscar's body. I thought it might be a more intense (more emotional) and cooler segue into the title card.

- At the beginning, instead of Oscar grabbing Stella's ankle, I just have his "dead body" tip over, alarming her. We still see him crawl out of the house later and scare the lady hanging fliers up and stuffing them into mailboxes.

- I have Matilda mention that, once they get enough money together, they'll run off and leave town.

- When Matilda sees Oscar, we get a better glimpse into her logic a little bit:


Quoted Text
Oscar smiling at her deviously. That proverbial devil on her shoulder. Knife still lodged in his imaginary throat, cop uniform drenched in blood.

OSCAR (CONT’D)
You oughtta just march right in there...


He pulls the knife out of his throat with ease. No pain.

OSCAR (CONT’D)
... And stick this knife right in his fucking throat.


Stella just stares at him, in a trance.

OSCAR (CONT’D)
Might as well just... kill them all. What do
you have to lose? Only a matter of
time before my friends find me and
throw your black ass in jail for the rest of your
piece of shit life.
(a beat)
What exactly was the plan? Just leave me
there to rot and go about your day like
nothing happened?


Oscar studies her as if reading her mind.

OSCAR (CONT’D)
Self defense? Is that what you’re thinking?


Oscar chuckles mischievously, shaking his head at her.

OSCAR (CONT’D)
You think anybody’s gonna believe some poor,
black girl with a history of mental illness?
Not only did you leave the scene of a crime...
but you had a motive.


Stella turns, glances into the diner’s windows and catches a glimpse of Matilda carrying a tray to a table.

She turns, slowly faces Oscar again.

OSCAR (CONT’D)
You really are out of your fucking mind, aren’t you?


With a twisted, grotesque shit-grin, Oscar’s evil chuckle becomes maniacal, hysterical laughter...
Until he stops abruptly. No longer smiling. Just staring at her, dead serious.

OSCAR (CONT’D)
Kill them all.


- When Buford sees the news report, I have the reporter refer to her as an "African American woman" right before she says that she's suspected of murdering her cop husband (to further perpetuate the racism that exists in that town).

- I also have Deputy Roy and Officer Hayden notice that Buford's pick-up truck is shot to shit with its windows shattered.

As for the other changes, they were just a few small things here and there that don't really change the narrative.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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MGayles
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This script was really good. I like the twist in the middle. And how the clues were kind out there early on. The way you cut away after the diner scene was excellent. It really kept me off guard.

and i like your writing style. Very visual. It makes it easier to film.

I'm not a big fan of the obscene amounts of gore. And a kid getting his head cut off was a little extreme.

And I think you should add a scene or two, establishing the main character before she kills her husband. The build up of tension is more exciting than the actually killing.

And I didn't understand the family. They kidnap women and sell them but the dad goes on killing sprees? Wouldn't that blow his cover? I think if he was running some illegal racket, he would want to go unnoticed. And it seems like the cops know what this dude is up to yet he's still able to pull off his operation without getting caught. I just didn't but it.

Good work tho. This would be a good movie to make on a low budget.
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spesh2k
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This script was really good. I like the twist in the middle. And how the clues were kind out there early on. The way you cut away after the diner scene was excellent. It really kept me off guard.


Awesome.


Quoted Text
and i like your writing style. Very visual. It makes it easier to film.


Thanks.


Quoted Text
I'm not a big fan of the obscene amounts of gore. And a kid getting his head cut off was a little extreme.


Fair enough. I, on the other hand, am a fan. I get what you're saying about the kid... but he's 15 and had just killed a girl. Think he got what he deserved.


Quoted Text
And I think you should add a scene or two, establishing the main character before she kills her husband. The build up of tension is more exciting than the actually killing.


I think I could find a way to establish the main character without adding a bunch of "back story" scenes. I tried getting across the dynamic of their relationship just by the way the were having sex. I did feel there was tension before she killed him... there's 4 pages of it leading up to the actual killing. It already is a 4 page scene. I established that the marriage sucks, Oscar is abusive, Stella is tired of it, she may be having an affair with a woman... though I agree I can try to establish her as a character better.


Quoted Text
And I didn't understand the family. They kidnap women and sell them but the dad goes on killing sprees? Wouldn't that blow his cover? I think if he was running some illegal racket, he would want to go unnoticed. And it seems like the cops know what this dude is up to yet he's still able to pull off his operation without getting caught. I just didn't but it.


Well, they're poor, so they haven't been human trafficking for long. And mass shootings, for Buford, isn't exactly something that he calculated or planned for. More of an impulsive thing after all the tension and humiliation is building up -- his wife sets up the human trafficking thing, not him. And it's never been mentioned that the police suspected Buford of kidnapping girls. He has a criminal history, but nothing that would suggest kidnapping and human trafficking. It's more small town blow-ups and fights -- he just has a bad temper that landed him in jail a few years ago. Since then, he's had to watch as his family struggles, his wife being the only one doing anything in regards to making money. It's not like the dad goes around committing mass murders everyday for leisure. On this day, he makes a horrible mistake and lets his psychotic anger get the best of him, which ultimately does blow his cover.


Quoted Text
Good work tho. This would be a good movie to make on a low budget.


Thanks for taking out the time, I'm getting to your script now.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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MGayles
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Quoted from spesh2k


On this day, he makes a horrible mistake and lets his psychotic anger get the best of him, which ultimately does blow his cover.


-- Michael


yeah i just dont buy this guy losing his cool. he should be be calm on the surface. have you seen that movie "Villains". It's kind of got the same plot as this.

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spesh2k
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Yeah, I've seen villains... it's a similar SUB plot. But you can say the same for Don't Breathe, Monster Party and other movies. Not sure what you mean by he should be calm on the surface? When we're introduced to the guy, we're only seeing one side of him, though I try to give subtle hints rather than banging you over the head, screaming at you "He's capable of mass murder!" Just little things like gripping the steering wheel tight when he sees his son's bullies, grabbing Stella's wrist at the diner, a moment where he's staring down Chad, the manager, like he's going to kill the guy, his criminal record, his speech to his son about "Don't be like me, control your anger no matter what that voice in your head tells you what to do", him going autopilot when retrieving his gun from his pick-up truck and unleashing a hail of bullets while stalking Stella.... all the bread crumbs and tell tale signs are there.

But I'm not trying to be too obvious with it. You're not really supposed to suspect of him of killing a bunch of people, that gives away the twist completely.

Perhaps I should have Buford have somewhat of an outburst, but the same thing can be accomplished with a menacing score... which, unfortunately I cannot include in a script. I did try to give those little subtle moments time to breathe as to draw attention to it... but not too much attention.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Colkurtz8
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Michael

You'll have gotten a pretty good idea of how I feel about the script in my page by page notes. Generally speaking, and apologies if I repeat myself...



Spoilers ahead




This starts with the foot to the floor and pretty much continues in that vein throughout...with some occasional breathers for pathos It's very sharply written, very violent (and increasingly so as we go on) with twists aplenty to keep us engaged. The first 40 pages or so are masterful in setting up the characters, the story, the motivations (which become eventually clear) along with a misdirection or two to throw us off.

When it is revealed you have a rather ingenious scenario of our sympathies shifting amid two crazed people stalking each other around a house, and that's just the first 40 pages...before another big reveal is dropped. I defy anyone not to be along for the ride at this point. It really is expertly paced, structured and executed.

Unfortunately however, like most films when it shows its hand, or relies on a big question at it centre, it becomes significantly less interesting post reveal. The last half felt like one long fight scene. A finely written fight scene but a protracted fight scene nonetheless. Gone is the suspense, the character moments, the surprises, in favour of stabbing, shooting, axing, hammering and generally beating the shit out of one another. It became exhausting, punishing, repetitious. Of course, people's mileage will vary, and given the propensity of action films, especially superhero films, to become very crashy bashy in their last act, I would say my mileage is lower than most. Just not my thing.

I wondered would the second half benefit from opening it out a bit, getting out of the house. On the other hand, I appreciate you are thinking about the budget and wanting to  keep it contained. That too has its merits. I just felt that as one fight transitioned into the next, it became wearisome...and now I'm repeating myself.

Also, the second major reveal concerning Buford and Gertrude's secret "business" felt a little thrown in just to to serve as a twist and to get really dark. Is it that easy to hop on the dark web and sell people like that? Maybe I'm being too naive but I think that it would take, at least, a very computer savvy person to ensure privacy and anonymity, while making sure the person on the other end was legit (I use that term ironically within the context of the deal) I imagine it's a more complicated procedure than kidnapping someone and then broadcasting it online that he/she is for sale. I don't know, not my area of expertise. Of course, I don't expect you to go step-by-step through the process and we can assume Buford and Gertrude have already done the ground work, have their contacts established, I was just curious how you would even begin to get into this racket. Plus, and this really was the bigger sticking point, is that it just felt too depraved and sadistic for Buford and Gertrude. I mean, they seemed like alright people who have fallen on hard times. Yes, Buford has a very violent temper, Gertrude appears a little simple but to kidnap and sell people like that requires a different type of calculated evil (then say a killing spree committed in a fit of rage) that I didn't see in those characters otherwise. It seemed too extreme, ill-fitting. I don't know, maybe I'm being too generous to them.  

To your credit though, you keep things tight at 93 pages, it doesn't outstay its welcome. I also enjoyed the epilogue. Another aspect you navigated well was the balance of humour and drama. There were times I thought it ran the risk of becoming too tongue-in-cheek (Dick Hardley?) but you reined it in just the right amount...except that one moment I flagged up in my page-by-page notes. Some of the more gruesome moments I could do without. They came off as merely shock tactics, a little over the top, to garner a reaction. I see you've posted this in the horror section so maybe you are trying to earn that genre classification as it felt much more like a drama/thriller.

Anyway, overall, I dug this, an easy, entertaining read that kept me hooked especially during its first half. Have you tried to shop it around anywhere...or is that even a thing anymore during these Covid-times?

Col.


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spesh2k
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Hey Gerard, thanks for taking a look at this!


Quoted Text
Michael

You'll have gotten a pretty good idea of how I feel about the script in my page by page notes. Generally speaking, and apologies if I repeat myself...


Haven't gotten a chance just yet, but I will take a look at them soon. Really appreciate it!


Quoted Text
This starts with the foot to the floor and pretty much continues in that vein throughout...with some occasional breathers for pathos  It's very sharply written, very violent (and increasingly so as we go on) with twists aplenty to keep us engaged. The first 40 pages or so are masterful in setting up the characters, the story, the motivations (which become eventually clear) along with a misdirection or two to throw us off.

When it is revealed you have a rather ingenious scenario of our sympathies shifting amid two crazed people stalking each other around a house, and that's just the first 40 pages...before another big reveal is dropped. I defy anyone not to be along for the ride at this point. It really is expertly paced, structured and executed.


Thanks man, far too kind.


Quoted Text
Unfortunately however, like most films when it shows its hand, or relies on a big question at it centre, it becomes significantly less interesting post reveal. The last half felt like one long fight scene. A finely written fight scene but a protracted fight scene nonetheless. Gone is the suspense, the character moments, the surprises, in favour of stabbing, shooting, axing, hammering and generally beating the shit out of one another. It became exhausting, punishing, repetitious. Of course, people's mileage will vary, and given the propensity of action films, especially superhero films, to become very crashy bashy in their last act, I would say my mileage is lower than most. Just not my thing.


Yeah, I didn't think it'd be quite your thing lol. Guess I was trying to deliver the goods to the intended horror audience... in particular the gore fanatics. But, I tried to make it earned (through the character building earlier). I can see how it may get exhausting, though.


Quoted Text
I wondered would the second half benefit from opening it out a bit, getting out of the house. On the other hand, I appreciate you are thinking about the budget and wanting to  keep it contained. That too has its merits. I just felt that as one fight transitioned into the next, it became wearisome...and now I'm repeating myself.


I wasn't really thinking TOO much about budget, but I know I wanted to do somewhat of a home invasion flick and it kinda just stayed at the one location.


Quoted Text
Plus, and this really was the bigger sticking point, is that it just felt too depraved and sadistic for Buford and Gertrude. I mean, they seemed like alright people who have fallen on hard times. Yes, Buford has a very violent temper, Gertrude appears a little simple but to kidnap and sell people like that requires a different type of calculated evil (then say a killing spree committed in a fit of rage) that I didn't see in those characters otherwise. It seemed too extreme, ill-fitting. I don't know, maybe I'm being too generous to them.


Yeah, I've heard this from others. It's difficult to hide the twist without showing a kind side to the family whilst giving clues to their behavior without being too obvious. In the next draft, I'm working on that a little bit more...


Quoted Text
To your credit though, you keep things tight at 93 pages, it doesn't outstay its welcome. I also enjoyed the epilogue. Another aspect you navigated well was the balance of humour and drama. There were times I thought it ran the risk of becoming too tongue-in-cheek (Dick Hardley?) but you reined it in just the right amount...except that one moment I flagged up in my page-by-page notes. Some of the more gruesome moments I could do without. They came off as merely shock tactics, a little over the top, to garner a reaction. I see you've posted this in the horror section so maybe you are trying to earn that genre classification as it felt much more like a drama/thriller.


Lol only a few people caught on to the names -- Dick Hardley and Blumpkin (google it). In earlier drafts, I wanted to acknowledge it but I thought it would be funnier for me, troll that I am, if I just played it straight like they were normal names without acknowledging how ridiculous they are. As for the drama/thriller, I guess I can see that. I tried setting the tone in the first few scenes, but I can see how one would classify that as thriller. One can probably say it's part action film, too, considering the violence of the late 2nd to 3rd acts. And, again with the gore, I really tried to earn those moments with solid character building and storytelling building up to the gore. And I tried making it feel deserved (in regards to the characters)


Quoted Text
Anyway, overall, I dug this, an easy, entertaining read that kept me hooked especially during its first half. Have you tried to shop it around anywhere...or is that even a thing anymore during these Covid-times?


Fuck if I know, man. Haven't really shopped it around just yet, still working on drafts, trying to get it to where I want. I have pitched to a few actors but haven't received any responses just yet, though it wasn't too long ago.

Thanks again, man, I'm glad that you found it entertaining!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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MGayles
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Quoted from spesh2k
Yeah, I've seen villains... it's a similar SUB plot. But you can say the same for Don't Breathe, Monster Party and other movies. Not sure what you mean by he should be calm on the surface? When we're introduced to the guy, we're only seeing one side of him, though I try to give subtle hints rather than banging you over the head, screaming at you "He's capable of mass murder!" Just little things like gripping the steering wheel tight when he sees his son's bullies, grabbing Stella's wrist at the diner, a moment where he's staring down Chad, the manager, like he's going to kill the guy, his criminal record, his speech to his son about "Don't be like me, control your anger no matter what that voice in your head tells you what to do", him going autopilot when retrieving his gun from his pick-up truck and unleashing a hail of bullets while stalking Stella.... all the bread crumbs and tell tale signs are there.

But I'm not trying to be too obvious with it. You're not really supposed to suspect of him of killing a bunch of people, that gives away the twist completely.

Perhaps I should have Buford have somewhat of an outburst, but the same thing can be accomplished with a menacing score... which, unfortunately I cannot include in a script. I did try to give those little subtle moments time to breathe as to draw attention to it... but not too much attention.


a criminal attacks an even worse family of criminals. Mostly takes place in a house. And there's even a girl trapped in the basement. It's just like Villains. That's not a bad thing. I liked the movie.

And what I'm trying to say is, the guy killing tons of people in public doesn't make much sense. It's like he's trying to get caught. A good psychotic villain shouldn't be so prone to anger. He should hold it in, and kill people in private when the time is right and no one is around. Remember Gus Fring from Breaking Bad? He was kind of like that. Polite and gentle in public ...a vicious killer in private. That's a great villain. No one even suspects him of being a drug lord because he's calm.

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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
a criminal attacks an even worse family of criminals. Mostly takes place in a house. And there's even a girl trapped in the basement. It's just like Villains. That's not a bad thing. I liked the movie.


Well, "Villains" wasn't exactly breaking new ground. Because you're pretty much saying I'M COPYING "Villains", which is far from true. But, since you're saying that, then you're saying "Villains" copied off "Don't Breathe" (which did it much better) and "Monster Party". And, if that's the case, then both movies copied off "The Collector", which did it 10 years before both movies came out. There's also "Breaking In", a less popular movie, "Better Watch Out" kinda does this, as does "You're Next"... and then there's movies that use a supernatural/paranormal element to the home invasion horror sub genre.


Quoted Text
And what I'm trying to say is, the guy killing tons of people in public doesn't make much sense. It's like he's trying to get caught. A good psychotic villain shouldn't be so prone to anger. He should hold it in, and kill people in private when the time is right and no one is around. Remember Gus Fring from Breaking Bad? He was kind of like that. Polite and gentle in public ...a vicious killer in private. That's a great villain. No one even suspects him of being a drug lord because he's calm.


Yeah, I getcha... but a cunning, genius villain isn't quite what I was going for. In the next draft, I'm trying to make it more clear that his wife, Gertrude, is the one behind the human trafficking operation, Buford is just going along with it -- establishing Gertrude as more of the breadwinner, which further crushes Buford's ego. And Buford isn't a calculating serial killer... he's a mass murderer, yes. But serial killers are compulsive while Buford's crime was impulsive. An impulse that he wasn't able to control as he loses further control of his own life and the circumstances presented before him.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  May 3rd, 2020, 1:01am
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Colkurtz8
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Michael


Quoted from spesh2k
Yeah, I've heard this from others. It's difficult to hide the twist without showing a kind side to the family whilst giving clues to their behavior without being too obvious. In the next draft, I'm working on that a little bit more...


Yeah, striking a balance is the key in many facets of storytelling.

I think what you suggested in response to another member's comment below about making Gertrude more active in the people selling is a good idea. Buford is the lose canon, the liability who ultimately brings about their undoing. Right now, Gertrude is a bit passive and hard to read. As I noted, she doesn't even question or admonish Buford for what he done in the diner once she learns about it...or is the suggestions that she already knew? Did they have a conversation off screen in which Buford told her?

Either way, it could be a bone of contention between them as we go into the second half to add extra spice. She will of course side with her husband since family is so important to them but she can at least give him shit for bringing unwanted attention upon them...and, you know, killing innocent people

Actually Gertrude's reaction to learning what Buford has done will be an indicator of her true character and what she is capable of. We will expect her to be in shock, appalled, etc but if you do make her the boss of their selling people racket, her reaction will be markedly different. Self preservation will take priority. This will all come before we go down the basement and find out the real truth of what's going on.


Quoted from spesh2k
only a few people caught on to the names -- Dick Hardley and Blumpkin (google it). In earlier drafts, I wanted to acknowledge it but I thought it would be funnier for me, troll that I am, if I just played it straight like they were normal names without acknowledging how ridiculous they are.


Haha, I had to Google "Blumpkin". I've fantasised about this...now I have a word for it. Cheers!

Col.


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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Yeah, striking a balance is the key in many facets of storytelling.

I think what you suggested in response to another member's comment below about making Gertrude more active in the people selling is a good idea. Buford is the lose canon, the liability who ultimately brings about their undoing. Right now, Gertrude is a bit passive and hard to read. As I noted, she doesn't even question or admonish Buford for what he done in the diner once she learns about it...or is the suggestions that she already knew? Did they have a conversation off screen in which Buford told her?


That was the focus I'm most recent rewrite (not posting until next week). But yeah, it didn't take too much. Gertrude already is the one on the computer, closing the "deals". In the scene where the cops ring the door bell, when Buford asks "What the fuck are they doing here?" -- I have Gertrude say, "What do you think?" Then she kinda goes on to say how his temper got him in hot water before (the reason why he can't get a job to support the family). She mentions "all those programs, medications and anger management classes for nothing". And she also mentions, "I'm trying to run an operation so we can make some money and I can't do that if you keep acting crazy and giving the cops a reason to come by" -- paraphrasing the dialogue, but that's the gist. She even mentions, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" And shit like that. He then explains that they're looking for Stella and not him ala the news on TV.

Yeah, him explaining to her what happened would've been something that they discussed during Stella's black out, didn't wanna force exposition.


Quoted Text
Either way, it could be a bone of contention between them as we go into the second half to add extra spice. She will of course side with her husband since family is so important to them but she can at least give him shit for bringing unwanted attention upon them...and, you know, killing innocent people

Actually Gertrude's reaction to learning what Buford has done will be an indicator of her true character and what she is capable of. We will expect her to be in shock, appalled, etc but if you do make her the boss of their selling people racket, her reaction will be markedly different. Self preservation will take priority. This will all come before we go down the basement and find out the real truth of what's going on.


Exactly.


Quoted Text
Haha, I had to Google "Blumpkin". I've fantasised about this...now I have a word for it. Cheers!


I didn't know what it was until I saw "Harold & Kumar" when it came out... 15 years ago? Christ, time flies.

Thanks again for checking this out! I did read your page by page notes, great stuff! Thanks!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
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Okay, this is the latest draft. Not gonna update the original post till next week, just in case I end up changing more (don't wanna keep having Don updating every 2 days). But, here, I changed some dialogue here and there, gave Stella a LITTLE more of a human/emotional side at the beginning. And I try to add a little conflict between husband and wife (Buford and Gertrude), making Gertrude the clear breadwinner and the brains behind the human trafficking operation. Meanwhile, Buford is the wildcard putting the operation in jeopardy.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3fCGwMw0lAJsGHxeOCkuh9Zx3og0z6U/view?usp=sharing


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Michael – reads well. I think the changes landed.

Given where you are with this, all I really have are take it or leave it REALLY nitty comments.


Quoted Text
PG 3. On all fours, Stella pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth.


I would consider moving this action forward to:

Stella considers it. But doesn’t grab the knife.

Instead, she pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth – examines it.

Smirking, Oscar turns, faces her.

I just thought it might work as an additional catalyst between not picking up the knife and stabbing him. HE might even say something akin to shame – you had such a pretty smile.

PG 11

Quoted Text
She kisses him again.

GERTRUDE  
Good luck.

Kind of a throw-away line. I’d either delete it and end the scene at Buford nods or use it for slight foreshadowing. Something like:

GERTRUDE
You need to be at your best today.


Pg 25.

Quoted Text
Stella continues to watch him leave. Her mind in a very, very dark place..


Thought the description was a little pedestrian for the mood – maybe something like – Stella’s eyes narrow as she watches him leave or Her jaw clenches as she….

PG 27

Quoted Text
DEPUTY ROY (CONT’D) All signs point to his wife.


Wife struck me as odd – too generic – they know Stella. S/B something like “you think maybe Stella..?


Quoted Text
PG 36
FEMALE NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) (from the television) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla with the plate number –

PG 37
NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla...


Did you mean to repeat the exact line??? Seems to me that it should be picked up at license plate number on page 37.

PG 44


Quoted Text
POP! The passenger’s side window explodes, shards of glass blasting into him.


POP or BANG? - It's a shotgun - ought to be at least a KABOOM

PG 47

Quoted Text
BUFORD
Newton’s window was open, I saw her inside.

Confused, she shakes her head.
GERTRUDE
Are you sure?


I'd change the order slightly

BUFORD
I saw her inside.

Confused, she shakes her head.

GERTRUDE Are you sure?

BUFORD
Newton’s window was open.

Pg 90


Quoted Text
Sheriff Hardley sits up, pulling his shirt open -- revealing a bullet proof vest.

He possesses his .357 again -- BOOM-BOOM-BOOM! His hail of bullets sends Buford stumbling back, until dropping him


bullet proof - should be bullet-proof.

I'd also reverse the action here - have him check vest after shot.

Like I said - really nitty comments - reads great



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Michael – reads well. I think the changes landed.


Hey, David, thanks for going round 2 on the rewrite, really appreciate your time!



Quoted Text
Quoted Text
PG 3. On all fours, Stella pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth.


I would consider moving this action forward to:

Stella considers it. But doesn’t grab the knife.

Instead, she pulls a tooth from her bloodied mouth – examines it.

Smirking, Oscar turns, faces her.

I just thought it might work as an additional catalyst between not picking up the knife and stabbing him. HE might even say something akin to shame – you had such a pretty smile.


Ah, that just may work. I like it.

PG 11

Quoted Text

Quoted Text
She kisses him again.

GERTRUDE  
Good luck.

Kind of a throw-away line. I’d either delete it and end the scene at Buford nods or use it for slight foreshadowing. Something like:

GERTRUDE
You need to be at your best today.


Another great suggestion... thanks!


Quoted Text
Pg 25.

Quoted Text
Stella continues to watch him leave. Her mind in a very, very dark place..


Thought the description was a little pedestrian for the mood – maybe something like – Stella’s eyes narrow as she watches him leave or Her jaw clenches as she….


Your suggestion certainly applies to the "write what we see as we see it" rule of thumb. I'm sure I can come up with something -- I do use the "jaw clenching" and "eyes narrowing" here and there already in the script. But I'm sure I can find a way to mix it up.


Quoted Text
PG 27

Quoted Text
DEPUTY ROY (CONT’D) All signs point to his wife.


Wife struck me as odd – too generic – they know Stella. S/B something like “you think maybe Stella..?


Yeah, I can definitely mix it up a little bit, here, too. I think just the Sheriff saying "Stella."



Quoted Text
Quoted Text
PG 36
FEMALE NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) (from the television) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla with the plate number –

PG 37
NEWS REPORTER (V.O.) Authorities believe she may be driving a yellow, 1977 Toyota Corolla...


Did you mean to repeat the exact line??? Seems to me that it should be picked up at license plate number on page 37.


It was actually a flashback -- I probably don't need it since we just heard it the page before.


Quoted Text
PG 44


Quoted Text
POP! The passenger’s side window explodes, shards of glass blasting into him.


POP or BANG? - It's a shotgun - ought to be at least a KABOOM


It wasn't a shotgun.


Quoted Text
PG 47

Quoted Text
BUFORD
Newton’s window was open, I saw her inside.

Confused, she shakes her head.
GERTRUDE
Are you sure?


I'd change the order slightly

BUFORD
I saw her inside.

Confused, she shakes her head.

GERTRUDE Are you sure?

BUFORD
Newton’s window was open.


Looking back, your suggestion does read a bit better.


Quoted Text
Pg 90


Quoted Text
Sheriff Hardley sits up, pulling his shirt open -- revealing a bullet proof vest.

He possesses his .357 again -- BOOM-BOOM-BOOM! His hail of bullets sends Buford stumbling back, until dropping him


bullet proof - should be bullet-proof.

I'd also reverse the action here - have him check vest after shot.


Yeah, makes sense, given the urgency.


Quoted Text
Like I said - really nitty comments - reads great


Thanks, dude. Again, really appreciate you giving it another look!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Happy to do it - hope to see this on the big screen


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Happy to do it - hope to see this on the big screen


Thanks, me too lol.

But, all jokes aside, if you need anything else that you feel could use some eyes, let me know. It's always a nice, easy read.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Quoted from spesh2k


Well, "Villains" wasn't exactly breaking new ground. Because you're pretty much saying I'M COPYING "Villains", which is far from true.



I'm not accusing you of stealing from Villains dude lol i'm just saying it's like Villains, but Villains did a better job of making the villains threatening because they didn't do stupid shit like killing tons of people and drawing attention to their other criminal acts.

There's very few original stories anyway so anything you write is bound to overlap some other movie. Sometimes it happens subconsciously. But I'll take a little less originality if the story is executed well and yours is except for that one part.

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spesh2k
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Gotcha man. Sorry, I've been locked in a room with a shitty view of the Bronx for the past 2 months, I'm a little jumpy lol. Probably misconstrued your phrasing.

BUT... in regards to the movie "Villains"... this isn't that kind of movie. This is supposed to be a Southern-fried, grindhouse, revenge, horror slasher that takes place in the rural, conservative South. And if killing tons of people isn't threatening, I really don't know what is. It doesn't take a genius to be threatening. If I had a gun and you saw I just killed a bunch of people, chances are you're going to be pretty threatened by that.

I did clear up Buford's role in the human trafficking operation in the last draft (his wife is the brains while Buford is the wild card fucking everything up). With Buford, I'm not going for some sophisticated, elegant genius wearing a suit. This is a guy who doesn't have a pot to piss in pretty much because of his erratic temper (which gets more erratic).

Anyway, if you need another look at the next draft of your script, hit me up, bro. I'm around.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  May 4th, 2020, 12:15am
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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k


Thanks, me too lol.

But, all jokes aside, if you need anything else that you feel could use some eyes, let me know. It's always a nice, easy read.

-- Michael


I'm in the process of going through some older scripts and deciding whether to freshen them up or leave them in the dust bin.  

One of those is: Dark World.  

Logline: In order to stop a serial killer, an FBI Agent must convince his colleagues that the murders that only he can see on a virtual reality game are real.

Anyway - going to be playing around with this soon and am thinking about converting it from a VR thing to a Gamer thing (ie.., like real murders taking place in something like Call of Duty). Really just looking for macro level thoughts - don't need typos et al as I got to do a tidy up anyway. No rush - but if you're ever bored and need something to kill time....

You can find it on this site - page 3 of the THRILLERS thread or on my site.  


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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All right, take 5... the latest draft has been updated for any new readers, so you won't have to fish through a bunch of comments on this thread to find the link I posted.

Thanks to everyone who've read so far and offered notes... it's helped immensely in shaping this into the script I want it to be.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k
All right, take 5... the latest draft has been updated for any new readers, so you won't have to fish through a bunch of comments on this thread to find the link I posted.

Thanks to everyone who've read so far and offered notes... it's helped immensely in shaping this into the script I want it to be.

-- Michael


Curious as to the next steps in your process.  I think you pretty much got the script in the can - do you send query letters out, contests - you repped? i.e., what steps do you take after you're done.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Curious as to the next steps in your process.  I think you pretty much got the script in the can - do you send query letters out, contests - you repped? i.e., what steps do you take after you're done.


Not really sure. I never was a contest kinda guy, I submitted one short that made top 10 in the 13horror.com contest a few years back, but it just never was my thing, really. I was considering some horror competitions, but I've been out of work due to this lock down here in NYC, so I can't afford to shell out the $.

I have been sending query letters here and there, but I'll pick up the pace a little bit once I feel a little more comfortable with the script. So far, I've only sent out like 5 queries and had one script request.

Unfortunately, I am not repped. I did have representation way back when, but it didn't really help much. I did have a script optioned while repped, but the company had already contacted me before I was signed. I wrote other scripts, but my agent would only read like the first 5 pages or so and kinda dismiss it -- one of those scripts, I later sold for a somewhat decent amount after I decided to part ways w/ said rep.

So, yeah, I'm not really sure what's next, your guess is as good as mine. I was never a great pitcher. And the two movies I got made were kinda dumb luck -- with The Suicide Theory, which I posted on here, I just received a lot emails from filmmakers, so I didn't really have to do much. Everyone pretty much came to me with that one. Though it did make its rounds, being read by some big actors along the way, with one decent name attached (Toby Kebbell), but due to scheduling conflicts, we couldn't work with him. Several of the scripts that I've either sold or optioned were found through here and other sites, pretty much, and I didn't really have to pitch often. My 2nd movie "Rage", I was hired to write due to my Australian ties (both movies are Aussie) w/ my previous movie. And both movies are super, super indie, so I don't exactly have producers kicking down my door. Even with Suicide Theory hitting theaters, video on demand and Netflix, nothing much really came of it.

So, I guess the next step is learning how to pitch and get the script into the right hands, somehow without spending any money in the mean time. Just gonna query the shit outta production and management companies that are known for these kind of movies, actors and filmmakers, etc that accept unsolicited material and try to somehow find a way to get the script through to companies that don't accept unsolicited material (trying to find ways to be a little more creative w/ that one).

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k


Not really sure. I never was a contest kinda guy, I had one short that made top 10 in the 13horror.com contest a few years back, but it just never was my thing, really. I was considering some horror competitions, but I've been out of work due to this lock down here in NYC, so I can't afford to shell out the $.

I have been sending query letters here and there, but I'll pick up the pace a little bit once I feel a little more comfortable with the script. So far, I've only sent out like 5 queries and had one script request.

Unfortunately, I am not repped. I did have representation way back when, but it didn't really help much. I did have a script optioned while repped, but the company had already contacted me before I was signed. I wrote other scripts, but my agent would only read like the first 5 pages or so and kinda dismiss it -- one of those scripts, I later sold for a somewhat decent amount after I decided to part ways w/ said rep.

So, yeah, I'm not really sure what's next, your guess is as good as mine. I was never a great pitcher. And the two movies I got made were kinda dumb luck -- with The Suicide Theory, which I posted on here, I just received a lot emails from filmmakers, so I didn't really have to do much. Everyone pretty much came to me with that one. Though it did make its rounds, being read by some big actors along the way, with one decent name attached (Toby Kebbell), but due to scheduling conflicts, we couldn't work with him. Several of the scripts that I've either sold or optioned were found through here and other sites, pretty much, and I didn't really have to pitch often. My 2nd movie "Rage", I was hired to write due to my Australian ties (both movies are Aussie) w/ my previous movie.

So, I guess the next step is learning how to pitch and get the script into the right hands, somehow without spending any money in the mean time. Just gonna query the shit outta production and management companies that are known for these kind of movies, actors and filmmakers, etc that accept unsolicited material and try to somehow find a way to get the script through to companies that don't accept unsolicited material (trying to find ways to be a little more creative w/ that one).

-- Michael



Hey, getting one request out of five queries is a pretty good hit rate. I think that is a promising start.

Not sure if you would be interested or not, but the Script Lab is currently running a free contest (limited to one script). That link is here:

https://thescriptlab.com/free-screenplay-contest/

The business end of this thing is a grind and the part I hate. I've met with agents a couple of times (hated the experience), never been officially repped and not even sure what the value is.   Sold some shorts, had two features go into option and fall out of option twice (that's probably par for the course).  

I would certainly re-farm those filmmakers that were interested in the Suicide Theory.

Regardless - best of luck with it.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
https://thescriptlab.com/free-screenplay-contest/

The business end of this thing is a grind and the part I hate. I've met with agents a couple of times (hated the experience), never been officially repped and not even sure what the value is.   Sold some shorts, had two features go into option and fall out of option twice (that's probably par for the course).


Yeah, I did enter that one a while ago, like 4 drafts ago. Not putting much hope into that one, though. As for the business end, yeah, it sucks balls. I'd see more value in signing w/ a manager over an agent, they seem to guide you a little better unless your agent's w/ WME or CAA or somebody.


Quoted Text
I would certainly re-farm those filmmakers that were interested in the Suicide Theory.


Ah man, I wrote Suicide Theory in 2008, so it took 7 years before it got released in theaters. Not sure if any of them would remember me after 12 years.


Quoted Text
Regardless - best of luck with it.


Thanks, man.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
Posted: May 14th, 2020, 8:15pm Report to Moderator
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Michael: For what it's worth, this was an Inktip free lead I got in the email.


Quoted Text
1) Seeking Horror Scripts (Lead 6075)
We are looking for completed, feature-length, contemporary horror scripts. We are not reading material with zombies, vampires, or werewolves, nor are we considering stories requiring child actors (e.g. no Stranger Things-type stories) or which are set in a secluded cabin or mansion or farmhouse. What we need are modern themes and unique concepts, ideally with a bit of humor.

Budget will not exceed $10 million. WGA and non-WGA writers may submit.

To find out about this company AND submit to this lead:

1) Go to https://www.inktip.com/leads/

2) Copy/Paste this code: rte8kt6jtu


Seems to me like Honey Mustard would be a fit.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
Posted: May 14th, 2020, 8:48pm Report to Moderator
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Oh, wow, thanks man!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k
Oh, wow, thanks man!

-- Michael


My pleasure


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Yuvraj
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Yo, Michael,

First feature of yours I read.

Gotta say this, I really dig your writing style. It seems to me pretty practical. It also feels like there was a voice of yours in the entirety of the script which shouted out for attention. There are pretty first hand notions specially in the scenes taking place in resturant( with Stella), that gives the touch of writer's own experience. Maybe I'm wrong on this but while reading the script, this was the fact that glued me and propelled me to read keenly.

Around like page sixty-nine, the script lost some steam but then it had Buford, the character I dug for and it saved the day for me.  

As the script moved forward, Stella became more lunatic which in a way makes sense. The confrontation of Stella and Buford had tense in it and it held my attention. But I wish it went a bit longer rather than her been freeing herself from the cuffs while Buford lingering on his options. It was a classical scene of a captor and his captive.  

Just a personal rampage here, the most hated characters for me were Donnie and Bo. Fucking scumbags. Their interaction with Stella was disgusting. Don't take it in a wrong way, I just like ranting on characters I hate.
  
Additionally, I don't feel this is to be a Horror script. This tilts more towards Revenge Drama. I think you meant to categorize this as a Horror in sense of " lives of people intertwined in the most horrid way possible". I get that.

Lastly, the title. The opening scene clarifies why the script is named Honey Mustard, Oscar embowls Stella with it. Buford also wants honey mustard, he bloody can't eat his chicken fingers without it.. Donnie delays in giving honey mustard and the storm ensues. Can't imagine Honey Mustard can shatter lives.

Maybe somewhat of this makes any sense. Maybe not. Who knows....

Good luck.


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spesh2k
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Hey Yuvraj,

Thanks for taking the time to check this out! Really appreciate your comments! Glad you liked the Buford character. And I'm glad you hated Donnie & Bo -- not only did I not want people to care about them if they died, I kinda wanted people to want them to die.

All makes sense and I'll be looking back to this for any future rewrites, appreciate the notes. Thanks again for checking it out!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Yuvraj
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Quoted from spesh2k
Hey Yuvraj,

Thanks for taking the time to check this out! Really appreciate your comments! Glad you liked the Buford character. And I'm glad you hated Donnie & Bo -- not only did I not want people to care about them if they died, I kinda wanted people to want them to die.

All makes sense and I'll be looking back to this for any future rewrites, appreciate the notes. Thanks again for checking it out!

-- Michael


No problem.

This was worth the time. Enjoyed reading.

Just a small request, if you are willing, wanted to read ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD. Couldn't find it. If you have it, do you mind sharing it? Or maybe any other known/famous script that you highly recommend?

Just a little request that's all.



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eldave1
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Quoted from Yuvraj


No problem.

This was worth the time. Enjoyed reading.

Just a small request, if you are willing, wanted to read ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD. Couldn't find it. If you have it, do you mind sharing it? Or maybe any other known/famous script that you highly recommend?

Just a little request that's all.


That script is not available. However, all of the other Oscar-nominated scripts from 2019 can be seen here:

https://gointothestory.blcklst.com/download-2020-oscar-nominated-screenplays-a5a5c5c9dc17

If you are looking for a Tarintino script, Inglorious Basterds can be seen here:

https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Inglourious-Basterds.html


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Yuvraj
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Quoted from eldave1


That script is not available. However, all of the other Oscar-nominated scripts from 2019 can be seen here:

https://gointothestory.blcklst.com/download-2020-oscar-nominated-screenplays-a5a5c5c9dc17

If you are looking for a Tarintino script, Inglorious Basterds can be seen here:

https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Inglourious-Basterds.html


Thanks Dave.

I read IB last month. Pretty good but too talky. It's Tarantino style I know.

Currently, floating with JOJO RABBIT.

Thanks again.


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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
No problem.

This was worth the time. Enjoyed reading.

Just a small request, if you are willing, wanted to read ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD. Couldn't find it. If you have it, do you mind sharing it? Or maybe any other known/famous script that you highly recommend?

Just a little request that's all.


I see Dave provided you with some links to other Tarantino scripts. Though it's nice to read everything, I wouldn't recommend emulating his style of scriptwriting.

Personally, I always recommend Rian Johnson's screenplays (Looper, Brick, Knives Out). Very crisp, clean and easy to read, no wasted words. Tarantino's scripts read more like plays to me. Especially Reservoir Dogs, which is pretty much formatted like a stage play. And he comes from an older school generation of writers -- screenplays by Tony Gilroy, the Coen Brothers, etc, they all contain a lot of no-nos for younger writers still learning the craft. While still written nicely, but they also often direct their own work and are already established. If a no-name writer such as myself submitted screenplays written the way those scripts are written, it might be harder to get a fair read.

https://www.rian-johnson.com/screenplays

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Yuvraj
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Quoted from spesh2k


I see Dave provided you with some links to other Tarantino scripts. Though it's nice to read everything, I wouldn't recommend emulating his style of scriptwriting.

Personally, I always recommend Rian Johnson's screenplays (Looper, Brick, Knives Out). Very crisp, clean and easy to read, no wasted words. Tarantino's scripts read more like plays to me. Especially Reservoir Dogs, which is pretty much formatted like a stage play. And he comes from an older school generation of writers -- screenplays by Tony Gilroy, the Coen Brothers, etc, they all contain a lot of no-nos for younger writers still learning the craft. While still written nicely, but they also often direct their own work and are already established. If a no-name writer such as myself submitted screenplays written the way those scripts are written, it might be harder to get a fair read.

https://www.rian-johnson.com/screenplays

-- Michael


Thanks brother.  Totally understand what you say.

I will shift my gears to KNIVES OUT after reading JOJO RABBIT( any say on this one?).

You'll be a known writer brother, pretty sure of that. That's what your script says, not me.

Thanks once again.



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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Thanks brother.  Totally understand what you say.

I will shift my gears to KNIVES OUT after reading JOJO RABBIT( any say on this one?).

You'll be a known writer brother, pretty sure of that. That's what your script says, not me.

Thanks once again.


Haven't read JoJo Rabbit yet, but will eventually give it a look... still haven't seen the movie.

"Knives Out" is very well written. Really easy to follow, even with a complex plot, as was "Looper". Really lean and smooth. A perfect example of great presentation on the page.

As for Tarantino, he's a fantastic writer, there's no debating that. But once you read one Tarantino script, you pretty much get the gist of his writing style, it hasn't evolved (talking strictly about the actual writing). And if you thought Inglourious Basterds was talky, I'm sure Once Upon A Time (which I absolutely loved -- it gets better with repeated viewings) is even more so.

Thanks for the encouragement, bro, appreciate it. And if you ever get a chance, check out "The Suicide Theory" on Amazon Prime, Itunes, Google Play, etc. Unfortunately, it left Netflix last year, and the $ per view isn't nearly as fruitful on the other streaming services (trying to get the producers to see about getting it on Shudder). But, at least on Prime, I think I, as the writer, get a hundredth of a penny lol.

Thanks again!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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BSaunders
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I've been absent for a few years and wanted to read an unproduced script that I knew would be quality. Your name stood out as I read Corpse Flower a few years back and enjoyed it.

You have a lot feedback already from some very good writers, and all the little details I would change personally are subject to my opinion. So in saying that, I like it. Very much so.

Good stuff.
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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
I've been absent for a few years and wanted to read an unproduced script that I knew would be quality. Your name stood out as I read Corpse Flower a few years back and enjoyed it.

You have a lot feedback already from some very good writers, and all the little details I would change personally are subject to my opinion. So in saying that, I like it. Very much so.

Good stuff.


Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

Was thinking of giving Corpse Flower a page one rewrite, glossed over it not too long ago. Not my best work, but glad you liked that one, too.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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BarryJohn
Posted: July 7th, 2020, 6:24am Report to Moderator
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Hi Michael

I read here with interest, as I enjoy your stories / writing. I searched, but don't find- Corpse Flower here. I'd like to read it if you could link it here. Or PM me.

Barry John  


Who am I? A man with a hundred stories... you want to read one?
Analyst, mentor, competition reader/judge, film critic, magazine article/blogger.  
https://simpsonliteraryagency.com/script-analyst
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LC
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Corpse Flower is here: BarryJohn -
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1473457035/

Just as an FYI: if looking for scripts - the search button is at the very top right hand side of the discussion board.  Works for Writer's name search too.  


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spesh2k
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Quoted Text
Hi Michael

I read here with interest, as I enjoy your stories / writing. I searched, but don't find- Corpse Flower here. I'd like to read it if you could link it here. Or PM me.

Barry John


What Libby said. Though it's really not one of my favorite scripts. Budget's overblown and the plot needs to be simplified -- and it's not my best writing. If I ever get around to it, maybe I'll give it a page one rewrite if I feel it's worth the time. It is probably my favorite title of anything I've written, but that's about it, really. Honestly surprised anybody remembers that one. I personally think "Honey Mustard" makes that script look like a piece of garbage, but that's just my opinion.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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BarryJohn
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Thanks LC

Michael - To read how you wrote then V now, is a learning transition for me. As said, I enjoy reading your scripts. Honey Mustard, been my beast read of yours.

I'll give Corpse Flower a read this weekend.
  


Who am I? A man with a hundred stories... you want to read one?
Analyst, mentor, competition reader/judge, film critic, magazine article/blogger.  
https://simpsonliteraryagency.com/script-analyst
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spesh2k
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Michael - To read how you wrote then V now, is a learning transition for me. As said, I enjoy reading your scripts. Honey Mustard, been my beast read of yours.

I'll give Corpse Flower a read this weekend.


My writing style really hasn't changed since like the early 2010's, though w/ CF, I did some small things differently (bold-facing brands for some reason). Once you get the writing part down, it's easier to focus on the things that should be focused on. And CF simply didn't cut it IMO -- main flaw being the 1st 10 pages, which is kind of a big no-no, though some people seemed to like the script overall. And there are a few similarities to Honey Mustard (the home invasion aspect, strong female characters). I dunno. Just not my favorite script. But I hope you enjoy it.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
Posted: November 16th, 2020, 12:14pm Report to Moderator
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Well, I made Carson's "HIGH-MAYBE" list as a semi-finalist in his "Last Great Screenplay" contest. Guess he really liked the first 10 pages. We'll see what he thinks about the first 60.

http://scriptshadow.net/


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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Mr. Blonde
Posted: November 16th, 2020, 12:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from spesh2k
Well, I made Carson's "HIGH-MAYBE" list as a semi-finalist in his "Last Great Screenplay" contest. Guess he loved the first 10 pages. We'll see what he thinks about the first 60.

http://scriptshadow.net/


Saw that this morning. Congrats, man. Fingers crossed for you. =)


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spesh2k
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


Saw that this morning. Congrats, man. Fingers crossed for you. =)


Thanks, man! I feel like the script gets better and better as it builds, 2nd act is definitely its strength, so hopefully he digs the first 60 pages. Definitely my most "commercial" script I've ever written, which is up his alley.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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jwent6688
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Hi Michael,

First, congratulations on making the Maybe-Yes pile in Carson's script comp. Hopefully he will continue on and love what he reads. You already have some great notes on this from people who are far more insightful than myself, so I basically read this for fun and didn't really take any detailed notes.

I loved the opening. It was gripping and brutal and drew me right in. I can see why this impressed Carson. I also really enjoyed meeting Buford and his family. You made him someone we can empathize with, at least in the beginning. He genuinely seemed like a good guy just trying to make ends meet. (Which is why your midpoint twist blind-sided me). - That was absolutely fantastic!

It was after that moment that things started to feel a bit off to me. I had myself questioning whether or not I had gotten the right tone of the story from the beginning. Things become increasingly violent and one liners are dropping all over the place. It was a major shift in gears from what seemed like some pretty heavy material that was very well handled up until that point.

Skimming through the comments I see you defend Stella's lack of dialogue. She was shot through the mouth, I get it, but not at one point did she impress me as someone who would toy with her prey so slyly as to write Honey Mustard with mustard on his front door. It felt like you were creating your own Bride from Kill Bill, but the Bride had one hell of a backstory (Intense training/former assassin). All we know of Stella is that she's pretty much mistreated by everyone except Matilda in her life. I get her angst. She snapped. I just didn't get that a few hours after making the biggest stand of her life that she was someone who would be hell bent on revenge. I just wish we could've gotten to know her a bit more.

So for me the second half wasn't quite as brilliant as the first half. Your writing alone makes this worth the read. This script flew by in no time at all and I did enjoy it. I wish you the best of luck with it. I'm sure the right director and cast could turn this into an absolute joy ride for people like me.

James


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spesh2k
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Quoted from jwent6688
Hi Michael,

First, congratulations on making the Maybe-Yes pile in Carson's script comp. Hopefully he will continue on and love what he reads. You already have some great notes on this from people who are far more insightful than myself, so I basically read this for fun and didn't really take any detailed notes.

I loved the opening. It was gripping and brutal and drew me right in. I can see why this impressed Carson. I also really enjoyed meeting Buford and his family. You made him someone we can empathize with, at least in the beginning. He genuinely seemed like a good guy just trying to make ends meet. (Which is why your midpoint twist blind-sided me). - That was absolutely fantastic!

It was after that moment that things started to feel a bit off to me. I had myself questioning whether or not I had gotten the right tone of the story from the beginning. Things become increasingly violent and one liners are dropping all over the place. It was a major shift in gears from what seemed like some pretty heavy material that was very well handled up until that point.

Skimming through the comments I see you defend Stella's lack of dialogue. She was shot through the mouth, I get it, but not at one point did she impress me as someone who would toy with her prey so slyly as to write Honey Mustard with mustard on his front door. It felt like you were creating your own Bride from Kill Bill, but the Bride had one hell of a backstory (Intense training/former assassin). All we know of Stella is that she's pretty much mistreated by everyone except Matilda in her life. I get her angst. She snapped. I just didn't get that a few hours after making the biggest stand of her life that she was someone who would be hell bent on revenge. I just wish we could've gotten to know her a bit more.

So for me the second half wasn't quite as brilliant as the first half. Your writing alone makes this worth the read. This script flew by in no time at all and I did enjoy it. I wish you the best of luck with it. I'm sure the right director and cast could turn this into an absolute joy ride for people like me.

James


Hey, James, thanks for reading it, man. I'm glad you enjoyed the read. RE: The tone of the 2nd half vs. 1st half -- I hear you, I tried to keep the tone consistent, but felt the need to ramp thinks up a bit going into the 3rd act, especially with that 2nd reveal (the Blumpkin family's human trafficking thing, their son's a psycho just like Dad, etc), so as new reveals got more "absurd" I guess you can say, so did the level of violence. I tried to fit in some lighter (or more comedic) moments during the 1st act going into the 2nd while also having some gore to establish what kind of ride this was going to be (Stella's husband coming out of the house, pulling the knife out of his neck, the opening, etc).

Also, I hear you about wanting to know more about Stella -- I was thinking of having the Sheriff at the station going over her record a bit and revealing a violent past (in and of juvie, fights, grew up in abusive foster homes, then some behavioral conditioning at an institute, etc) that may explain why and how she could be capable of pursuing this twisted act of vengeance after losing the only person she cared about/cared about her.

Thanks again for reading, glad I blind-sided you at the midpoint, was afraid I was telegraphing that twist too much in the first half.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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LC
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Hey, Michael...

Thought I'd give this a read having read the original short, which I'm assuming inspired this longer version.

Reading the reviews for that one I notice I wasn't a big fan. This one however is a different beast.

I've not got much to add really that hasn't already been said... Minor typos along the lines of queue/cue etc., but that's just me nit-picking and nothing stood out to affect the read.

I love this version of Honey Mustard.
The horror/action comes thick and fast and never lets up and the writing is terrific. Lots of terrific surprises from left field that kept me on tenterhooks.

I flew through this yesterday so just thought I'd add a few words of admiration to the pile.

Good luck with it moving up the finalist ranks of Script Shadow.
A much deserved selection.



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kev
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Quoted from spesh2k
Well, I made Carson's "HIGH-MAYBE" list as a semi-finalist in his "Last Great Screenplay" contest. Guess he really liked the first 10 pages. We'll see what he thinks about the first 60.

http://scriptshadow.net/


Congrats Michael! I certainly smiled when I saw this on the list. Well deserved. I threw Bad Influence in there, but I believe it ended up in the maybe pile. Got an email saying it's getting thrown into the amateur showdown, we'll see how it fares there. Best of luck with it!


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spesh2k
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Quoted from kev


Congrats Michael! I certainly smiled when I saw this on the list. Well deserved. I threw Bad Influence in there, but I believe it ended up in the maybe pile. Got an email saying it's getting thrown into the amateur showdown, we'll see how it fares there. Best of luck with it!


Thanks! "Bad Influence" is definitely my favorite unproduced spec I've read this year, I think if Carson were to read further, he'd really dig it. But it shall be getting my approval when I see it posted there for Amateur Showdown.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
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Quoted from LC
Hey, Michael...

Thought I'd give this a read having read the original short, which I'm assuming inspired this longer version.

Reading the reviews for that one I notice I wasn't a big fan. This one however is a different beast.

I've not got much to add really that hasn't already been said... Minor typos along the lines of queue/cue etc., but that's just me nit-picking and nothing stood out to affect the read.

I love this version of Honey Mustard.
The horror/action comes thick and fast and never lets up and the writing is terrific. Lots of terrific surprises from left field that kept me on tenterhooks.

I flew through this yesterday so just thought I'd add a few words of admiration to the pile.

Good luck with it moving up the finalist ranks of Script Shadow.
A much deserved selection.



Hey, Libby! Thanks! It's not that I don't put thought into my shorts because I do think about them before I write them, but once I write it, that's pretty much it. I did, however, put a lot of thought into the feature version. Glad you enjoyed it! Doubt it's going to be picked by Carson, but I really do feel like, given it's low-ish budget, that it will be produced at some point. Hopefully this Scriptshadow thing gets it noticed a little bit more.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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LC
Posted: November 19th, 2020, 10:20pm Report to Moderator
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I was just reading through some of this thread and wondered if you'd seen this, Michael?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6738136/
Suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite on some plot points, but it's highly entertaining regardless.


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spesh2k
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Quoted from LC
I was just reading through some of this thread and wondered if you'd seen this, Michael?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6738136/
Suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite on some plot points, but it's highly entertaining regardless.


Yes, I actually did see this and LOVED it. The direction and the cinematography is out of this world. And it's like 90% or something on Rotten Tomatoes. Think the director is French or something, but their name is one of the names on my "Wish List" for Honey Mustard. And whenever I've had someone question the believability of some of the stuff in HM (a lot of people surviving some brutal shit), I always point to "Revenge" as one of the examples -- a woman falling off a cliff and being impaled on jagged rocks and then coming back and kicking ass literally within a day of that (after giving herself some Rambo esque first aid treatment) -- that's much more of a reach than anything in HM. And there's next to no backstory here, not a huge amount of character development... And I think it's great! I think my violence fits in the world I pictured in HM despite it being grounded in reality, similar to how it was handled in "Revenge" -- which was the first movie I saw when I officially subscribed to Shudder, and one of the reasons why I kept it. One of my favorite horror flicks of the past 5 years.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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LC
Posted: November 20th, 2020, 12:46am Report to Moderator
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Yep, Coralie Fargeat is the Director.

Being impaled on the tree and surviving was iffy, and yep, cauterizing the wound with a scalding beer can and the subsequent phoenix logo imprint was pushing it, but I just went with cause it was so much fun. The blood-bath of an ending is a riot too.

You get her onboard I'll be paying for my HM copy to come express-post just like I did with Revenge.  

P.S. When Buford pulled out the blowtorch I thought of Revenge, and then those darned cops turned up.


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spesh2k
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Quoted from LC
Yep, Coralie Fargeat is the Director.

Being impaled on the tree and surviving was iffy, and yep, cauterizing the wound with a scalding beer can and the subsequent phoenix logo imprint was pushing it, but I just went with cause it was so much fun. The blood-bath of an ending is a riot too.

You get her onboard I'll be paying for my HM copy to come express-post just like I did with Revenge.  

P.S. When Buford pulled out the blowtorch I thought of Revenge, and then those darned cops turned up.


We shall see... it can be hard getting writer/directors on board for another writer's script. But we shall see.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Heretic
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I had a blast with this one. Good nasty fun, and clearly coming from someone who understands the ins and outs of genre.

Just a couple thoughts --

SPOILERS THROUGHOUT

I had kind of a meta problem with this story, I guess, in that I never believed that Stella was going to work out to be the bad guy, which sapped the tension in key parts. Early on I thought that Buford and Stella might end up as a pair of protagonists with a common interest somehow; once it became clear that that wasn't happening, I knew the way things would work out with Stella. The script is too tasteful to start off by heaping so much violation and unhappiness on Stella without being on her side, and we feel that right away. Consequently, once we get into the home invasion stuff -- which is very fun in and of itself -- I was cut off from the tension, because I didn't believe that there was a genuine threat from her (ie. that we would see her murder an apparently innocent person) and so I didn't believe Buford would get hurt during that sequence. I was kinda just left waiting for the other shoe to drop through that whole thing, despite recognizing that it was a fun, well-crafted sequence.

I thought Captive Woman got a bit of a raw deal at the end there, but even more I thought that it was one too many for surprise attacks from off-screen. A LOT of people get ambushed in this script. I wonder if this could play out in a more unexpected way.

The moment where Buford learns his family has been killed is a little bit underwhelming, I think. It seems like this moment could and should be bigger. Along with that, there's the little Get Out moment here where you worry that the cops showing up is actually a bad thing, and I think that could be milked a little more too. Maybe Hardley enters and finds Buford kneeling over his dead family, and that's how the climax kicks off -- I don't know, but I didn't think everything was quite gelling here yet.

This was fun to read. I'll hope to catch the movie one day.
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spesh2k
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Quoted from Heretic
I had a blast with this one. Good nasty fun, and clearly coming from someone who understands the ins and outs of genre.

Just a couple thoughts --

SPOILERS THROUGHOUT

I had kind of a meta problem with this story, I guess, in that I never believed that Stella was going to work out to be the bad guy, which sapped the tension in key parts. Early on I thought that Buford and Stella might end up as a pair of protagonists with a common interest somehow; once it became clear that that wasn't happening, I knew the way things would work out with Stella. The script is too tasteful to start off by heaping so much violation and unhappiness on Stella without being on her side, and we feel that right away. Consequently, once we get into the home invasion stuff -- which is very fun in and of itself -- I was cut off from the tension, because I didn't believe that there was a genuine threat from her (ie. that we would see her murder an apparently innocent person) and so I didn't believe Buford would get hurt during that sequence. I was kinda just left waiting for the other shoe to drop through that whole thing, despite recognizing that it was a fun, well-crafted sequence.

I thought Captive Woman got a bit of a raw deal at the end there, but even more I thought that it was one too many for surprise attacks from off-screen. A LOT of people get ambushed in this script. I wonder if this could play out in a more unexpected way.

The moment where Buford learns his family has been killed is a little bit underwhelming, I think. It seems like this moment could and should be bigger. Along with that, there's the little Get Out moment here where you worry that the cops showing up is actually a bad thing, and I think that could be milked a little more too. Maybe Hardley enters and finds Buford kneeling over his dead family, and that's how the climax kicks off -- I don't know, but I didn't think everything was quite gelling here yet.

This was fun to read. I'll hope to catch the movie one day.


Hey, Heretic, thanks for taking a look. It wasn't until recently that I gave the script another look and I got the same feeling you express with the ending -- I give the big moment to the son rather than Buford. I think it would work to have Hardley find his deputy and the officer dead and then find Buford standing over his family, destroyed. I think I tried to hard to end the story there and keep the majority of it at the house. When I think that maybe Stella and the CAPTIVE GIRL maybe get away but is then tracked down by Hardley perhaps? Maybe Buford is hospitalized? And there's a showdown later with all three at the hospital maybe? Maybe after Hardley hears that voice mail from his dead deputy? Would add some $$$ to the budget, but it's already pretty low budget as it is and maybe could afford another location. I dunno, I'm sure I'll figure something out. But thanks for that note, it highlighted some doubts I gathered from rereading the script again in regards to the ending.

Thanks again! Glad you had fun reading!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k


Hey, Heretic, thanks for taking a look. It wasn't until recently that I gave the script another look and I got the same feeling you express with the ending -- I give the big moment to the son rather than Buford. I think it would work to have Hardley find his deputy and the officer dead and then find Buford standing over his family, destroyed. I think I tried to hard to end the story there and keep the majority of it at the house. When I think that maybe Stella and the CAPTIVE GIRL maybe get away but is then tracked down by Hardley perhaps? Maybe Buford is hospitalized? And there's a showdown later with all three at the hospital maybe? Maybe after Hardley hears that voice mail from his dead deputy? Would add some $$$ to the budget, but it's already pretty low budget as it is and maybe could afford another location. I dunno, I'm sure I'll figure something out. But thanks for that note, it highlighted some doubts I gathered from rereading the script again in regards to the ending.

Thanks again! Glad you had fun reading!

-- Michael


For what it matters, I wanted Captive Girl to survive the ordeal.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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LC
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I think I'm with Dave on Captive Girl.
I keep thinking of the mom and her fliers.

I suppose it depends on her not getting in the way plot-wise and her survival being clever and a surprise -if she were to play dead, perhaps?

Ever since Alien (which made a huge impression on me) slasher/horror movies have become a little predictable with their kill 'em all Final Girl denouements. I'm kinda torn on the other hand though cause the ending of HM is pretty darned effective and satisfying.


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spesh2k
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Quoted from LC
I think I'm with Dave on Captive Girl.
I keep thinking of the mom and her fliers.

I suppose it depends on her not getting in the way plot-wise and her survival being clever and a surprise -if she were to play dead, perhaps?

Ever since Alien (which made a huge impression on me) slasher/horror movies have become a little predictable with their kill 'em all Final Girl denouements. I'm kinda torn on the other hand though cause the ending of HM is pretty darned effective and satisfying.


Yeah, I'm definitely considering changing that and making her live while also considering adding another 10 pages or so, extending the ending so that there's not another "guy we thought was dead comes out of nowhere" moment again -- there's a few of them in this already. I liked Heretic's idea of Hardley arriving to find Buford devastated by the death of his family -- while also perhaps adding humor there. I was thinking of Buford picking up pieces of his son and hugging them or something lol. Still mulling the climax though, not sure whether or not I want the story to leave the house or not. I was thinking, since a small town and it would take a while for an ambulance to arrive, Hardley maybe gets Buford in his car and rushes him to the hospital. While in the car, he notices a missed voice mail from the Deputy -- the message is the Deputy saying that Buford was the real killer at the diner. Or maybe as Hardley arrives, Stella and Captive Girl are leaving and they hide in Buford's truck -- Captive Girl doesn't understand why they can't get the Sheriff's attention. Stella (thinking everyone in the house is dead) tells her to wait until she leaves (in Buford's truck -- she knows the law is looking for her) and then run in and tell the Sheriff everything.

I dunno, still needs some thought and I'm backed up with projects right now that I need to deliver on somewhat of a deadline. But I'm definitely gonna keep thinking of a better and more original way to end this.

-- Michael

Meanwhile,

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k


Yeah, I'm definitely considering changing that and making her live while also considering adding another 10 pages or so, extending the ending so that there's not another "guy we thought was dead comes out of nowhere" moment again -- there's a few of them in this already. I liked Heretic's idea of Hardley arriving to find Buford devastated by the death of his family -- while also perhaps adding humor there. I was thinking of Buford picking up pieces of his son and hugging them or something lol. Still mulling the climax though, not sure whether or not I want the story to leave the house or not. I was thinking, since a small town and it would take a while for an ambulance to arrive, Hardley maybe gets Buford in his car and rushes him to the hospital. While in the car, he notices a missed voice mail from the Deputy -- the message is the Deputy saying that Buford was the real killer at the diner. Or maybe as Hardley arrives, Stella and Captive Girl are leaving and they hide in Buford's truck -- Captive Girl doesn't understand why they can't get the Sheriff's attention. Stella (thinking everyone in the house is dead) tells her to wait until she leaves (in Buford's truck -- she knows the law is looking for her) and then run in and tell the Sheriff everything.

I dunno, still needs some thought and I'm backed up with projects right now that I need to deliver on somewhat of a deadline. But I'm definitely gonna keep thinking of a better and more original way to end this.

-- Michael

Meanwhile,

-- Michael


Speaking of adding stuff.....

Not sure if this helps, but when I first read this I had a thought that it would be cool if Buford forced Stella to serve him Honey Mustard. Right here:


Quoted Text
INT. BUFORD’S DARK BASEMENT ROOM - CONTINUOUS

Wincing in pain, Buford gingerly squats down next to Stella.


I'd have him with a plate of chicken fingers and a bottle of honey mustard admonishing Stella that all you had to do was your fucking job. Have her give Stella the bottle - command that she pour some on the plate - she refuses - spits on him or something - then the thumb into the shoulder wound - POUR THE FUCKING HONEY MUSTARD - then he spots the photo of Matilda  - continue the scene.

Just thought it would be a neat full circle trick - didn't mention it the first time because didn't want to suggest adding pages - but sense you considering - some food for thought (literally).


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Quoted from eldave1


Speaking of adding stuff.....

Not sure if this helps, but when I first read this I had a thought that it would be cool if Buford forced Stella to serve him Honey Mustard. Right here:

I'd have him with a plate of chicken fingers and a bottle of honey mustard admonishing Stella that all you had to do was your fucking job. Have her give Stella the bottle - command that she pour some on the plate - she refuses - spits on him or something - then the thumb into the shoulder wound - POUR THE FUCKING HONEY MUSTARD - then he spots the photo of Matilda  - continue the scene.

Just thought it would be a neat full circle trick - didn't mention it the first time because didn't want to suggest adding pages - but sense you considering - some food for thought (literally).


Haha! That's a thought. Will consider it. Not sure if that would TOO campy at that point in the story, but would definitely be a cool little layer to add to that scene.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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rolo
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Decided to crack this open. Thought the writing was solid. Haven't read anyone else's comments as didn't want them influencing my own! There were lots of things I liked in this script but I'm only going to focus on the stuff I had issues with.

First off, I've seen similar opening scenes where the girl is distant while the guy is thrusting away. I wonder if this scene might work better if Stella's acting like she's having the best sex ever, only for Oscar to stop, but she doesn't even notice and keeps faking an orgasm for a while longer?

I wasn't really a fan of the structure. For me, there were too many flashbacks to the diner. I don't think you need all of them. They don't really serve much purpose other than to slow the narrative down. They're showing us things that we the audience can work out for ourselves. Ideally, a story should always be moving forward. The only flashback I would maybe keep is the actual killings.

The reveal that Buford was the killer was cool, but pretty obvious. I knew it as soon as he gave the talk to his son, Newton, about trying to be a good person and not end up being like him. Might want to scrap that chat? Because anyone who has read a lot of scripts as well as written a fair few of their own, will see the twist coming imo.

Speaking of Newton, I think it was really disappointing to see him turn out exactly like Mom and Dad. I think a far more interesting story choice would be to have him try to help Stella! It would make sense because even though they're both nuts, his parents have brought him up to know the difference between right and wrong.

Also, I think a lot of producers would be put off seeing a 15-year-old kid meet such a gruesome end!

Gertrdude's character came off as tonally inconsistent. One minute she's chastising Buford for not tipping Stella, the next she's a full blown psycho! Also, not sure, given how much of a fight she put up, that she should be 'gut' shot? Think that would be way too painful. In real life she'd probably be writhing around in agony on the floor!

Speaking of wounds, given the amount of life threatening injuries Buford endured, he comes off as a character more befitting a horror than a thriller. Michael Myers immediately springs to mind. Might want to dial it down a little?

Hope you find something of use amongst these brief notes. Best of luck!
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spesh2k
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Hey Rolo, long time no see!


Quoted Text
Decided to crack this open. Thought the writing was solid. Haven't read anyone else's comments as didn't want them influencing my own! There were lots of things I liked in this script but I'm only going to focus on the stuff I had issues with.


Cool.


Quoted Text
First off, I've seen similar opening scenes where the girl is distant while the guy is thrusting away. I wonder if this scene might work better if Stella's acting like she's having the best sex ever, only for Oscar to stop, but she doesn't even notice and keeps faking an orgasm for a while longer?


Only other movie I can think of is "You're Next" probably. Hardly think it's a cliche. As for your suggestion, I don't think that would really set the tone properly, especially since she's a battered woman. Might come across better in a romantic comedy.


Quoted Text
I wasn't really a fan of the structure. For me, there were too many flashbacks to the diner. I don't think you need all of them. They don't really serve much purpose other than to slow the narrative down. They're showing us things that we the audience can work out for ourselves. Ideally, a story should always be moving forward. The only flashback I would maybe keep is the actual killings.


I get it, but the structure is probably also what most people (including myself) think the strength of the script is. Paint by numbers works and most of my scripts work like that, but I wanted to do something a little different. And its not like I'm breaking new ground, here.

Not sure what you mean by ALL the flashbacks to the diner -- there were 2. And I believe they served a lot of purpose. I get it, it's kind of a feaux pas in screenwriting (mainly with other screenwriters) to include flashbacks. Some readers prefer no flashbacks at all -- many, just because they've heard other people say flashbacks are a no-no and believe that any flashbacks whatsoever show weakness in storytelling, which I think is absolute horseshit. They're usually more frowned upon in scripts by other writers than in movies by movie fans. Sure, if used poorly, they suck -- just like ANYTHING in a script. But I believe they do keep THIS story moving forward. Here, they're used to fill in the blanks. But I think I used them pretty well, here. The 1st flashback is a huge reveal (the Buford reveal) and the 2nd shows how Stella survived and decided to go on her quest for vengeance -- while adding a much needed emotional element. And it's not like the flashbacks come out of nowhere, I thought they were properly placed. The first one comes as a reveal, the 2nd one is placed after she's knocked unconscious -- thus far, the 2nd act has been nonstop and I felt a reprieve was appropriate. Here, the flashback comes when her momentum comes to a stop. The flashback ends when she wakes up locked in the basement. I thought that showing what happened would be more cinematic than alluding to it with expositional dialogue, even if written well and with subtlety. And it's not repetitive, it's showing different parts of the incident.


Quoted Text
The reveal that Buford was the killer was cool, but pretty obvious. I knew it as soon as he gave the talk to his son, Newton, about trying to be a good person and not end up being like him. Might want to scrap that chat? Because anyone who has read a lot of scripts as well as written a fair few of their own, will see the twist coming imo.


I think you're probably right on that one. Might need to tone it down -- maybe just have him tell his son "It's not too late for you" without comparing his kid's behavior to his.


Quoted Text
Speaking of Newton, I think it was really disappointing to see him turn out exactly like Mom and Dad. I think a far more interesting story choice would be to have him try to help Stella! It would make sense because even though they're both nuts, his parents have brought him up to know the difference between right and wrong.


You might be right. But to me, that would the obvious story choice to make. I'm of the firm belief that you're supposed throw as many obstacles as possible into your protagonist's way, not give them an easy out/deus ex machina device. To me, having him help Stella is too easy for Stella. Sorry, but I think that would be the least intriguing choice. I think it's predictable, boring and safe -- it's the choice most writers would make and probably a choice I would've made years ago. But, to me, it's the obvious, easiest choice.


Quoted Text
Also, I think a lot of producers would be put off seeing a 15-year-old kid meet such a gruesome end!


I think you're wrong, there, IMO. There's been a million slasher movies where high school kids are butchered. And the character had it coming.


Quoted Text
Gertrdude's character came off as tonally inconsistent. One minute she's chastising Buford for not tipping Stella, the next she's a full blown psycho! Also, not sure, given how much of a fight she put up, that she should be 'gut' shot? Think that would be way too painful. In real life she'd probably be writhing around in agony on the floor!


She's more of a sociopath. And sociopaths don't always behave like maniacs. I dunno, a person's behavior is going to change according to the situation, won't it? Maybe you're right. But she's trying to protect her business, here, without drawing attention to police or any other things that might endanger their business. She wants her to just go away. But once Stella makes that impossible and nearly kills her husband... not sure about you, I'm not a psycho, but regardless of whether or not I'm involved in nefarious dealings, you touch my fucking spouse, I'm gonna be a fucking psycho and kill you. Also, I've seen my friend get stabbed in the calf and saw his calf muscle hanging off and he wasn't on the ground, crying. Adrenaline can carry you a long way. Is it completely believable here? Probably not. But I think it was believable enough given the story.  

"In real life". Yeah, this isn't real life if you haven't noticed by the various deaths that came way before this scene lol. This is a horror film. I wasn't writing something based on a true story or necessarily grounded in complete reality. My goal was to make a pulpy, old-school 80's style horror/action flick. This is a movie that you KNOW is a movie. Sure, there's tons of shit in movies where I'm like "there's no way that can happen", but you have to consider the tone of the story you're seeing something "unbelievable" in. Mr. Orange in "Reservoir Dogs" took a gutshot, bled about 10 pints onto a warehouse floor and then woke up to kill Mr. Blonde an hour and half later. No fucking way that can happen. But it didn't bother me nor most people.


Quoted Text
Speaking of wounds, given the amount of life threatening injuries Buford endured, he comes off as a character more befitting a horror than a thriller. Michael Myers immediately springs to mind. Might want to dial it down a little?


Maybe. But this IS a horror film. And he IS the bad guy. And again, I believe it fits the tone. But perhaps I may decide to dial it down -- maybe instead of the axe wound to the back, he loses a few fingers or something.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  December 5th, 2020, 6:14pm
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rolo
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Hey Michael --

You're obviously very passionate abot this script and I respect your choices. Just so we're clear, I was not implying I was right and you were wrong. Just giving my honest opinion.

Even though it's in the horror section, I never considered it as such. There's enough blood and gore to argue it is I guess. Just felt more like a thriller to me. Don't remember any jump scares or really creepy stuff? Though, again, I'm not going to argue with you. It's your script. You know it way better than me.
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spesh2k
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Quoted from rolo
Hey Michael --

You're obviously very passionate abot this script and I respect your choices. Just so we're clear, I was not implying I was right and you were wrong. Just giving my honest opinion.

Even though it's in the horror section, I never considered it as such. There's enough blood and gore to argue it is I guess. Just felt more like a thriller to me. Don't remember any jump scares or really creepy stuff? Though, again, I'm not going to argue with you. It's your script. You know it way better than me.


All good, man, I was just providing a counterpoint to your opinion on some of the aspects you weren't high on. Most of what you commented on were specific choices I made that I have thought out and about considerably, knowing the risks of making those choices. In the very first draft, I was considering having Newton help Stella but it just felt too easy. And it's done so much in horror films that it's practically a trope. Just my opinion. And, with flashback, opinions vary. Same with voice over and a whole bunch of other shit. I've read scripts where flashbacks were very distracting -- it'll start with a flashback and then jump forward and then go back to a flashback and continue from there. And then there'll be a flashback within a flashback and it gets very confusing. But, it's also been VERY effective in movies (Godfather II, which was a prequel and sequel at the same time, Kill Bill, Unbreakable & Signs, Eternal Sunshine, Usual Suspects, Citizen Kane, etc) -- some, yeah, it does stop momentum, even in those films I've mentioned. But they're always placed at the right time -- either when there's a revelation and/or when the momentum of a scene is brought to a stop (via being knocked unconscious, character getting killed, when a character goes to sleep, etc). Or at a key emotional  and/or revelatory moments (when a character remembers something that relates to the current scene). Overall, I think the use of flashbacks as a feaux pas is another myth created by screenwriters, just like the title page myth (using different fonts), the voice over myth, etc. Just like anything in a script, they can be well done or executed poorly. Maybe I executed my flashbacks poorly, maybe I didn't, but I'm pretty sure it didn't fuck up the pacing THAT much, if at all. I just think that there's a preconceived notion with flashbacks and if there's more than one, a lot of people will automatically dismiss the flashback as something that fucks with the pacing and isn't necessary, regardless of how the flashback plays out. Especially with other writers, they just see a flashback and point at it and say "You can't do that!" It's not just being passionate about THIS script in particular, it's something I feel strongly about when I see writers critiquing other scripts.

The only thing I really thought you were "wrong" about was producers being turned off by a 15 year old getting chainsawed in a horror movie. There's plenty of good points here (telegraphing Buford's reveal in that conversation with his son is a BIG one).

RE: This being a horror film vs thriller. It's a very thin line and you can probably say most horror movies ARE thrillers. Especially if you're flipping through Netflix, Hulu, etc, you see a lot of horror films in their thriller section. I think the gore alone makes it horror film, especially the gore in the opening scene.

Thanks again for checking it out, man.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  December 5th, 2020, 7:27pm
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eldave1
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Quoted Text
Some readers prefer no flashbacks at all -- many, just because they've heard other people say flashbacks are a no-no and believe that any flashbacks whatsoever show weakness in storytelling, which I think is absolute horseshit.


My experience is that they are part of the triumphant:

FLASHBACKS
VOICE OVERS
NARRATOR

On this and other sites I have seen - don't use (any of the above) and I have never understood why any of them are frowned upon as I have seen tons of movies where they were used quite effectively.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Quoted from eldave1


My experience is that they are part of the triumphant:

FLASHBACKS
VOICE OVERS
NARRATOR

On this and other sites I have seen - don't use (any of the above) and I have never understood why any of them are frowned upon as I have seen tons of movies where they were used quite effectively.

Ain't that the truth.
Ridiculous.


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spesh2k
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Quoted from eldave1


My experience is that they are part of the triumphant:

FLASHBACKS
VOICE OVERS
NARRATOR

On this and other sites I have seen - don't use (any of the above) and I have never understood why any of them are frowned upon as I have seen tons of movies where they were used quite effectively.


Yeah, stuff like that just really gets my goat (I sound like my grandfather).

Didn't mean to sound aggressive at all when responding to Rolo's comments -- he had really great points in regards to the script. It's just whenever I see these screenwriting myths come up, I kinda just lose my shit a little bit lol. The title page thing (you can only use 12 point courier) is one that pisses me off immensely. The flashback and the voice over myths are another one. Then there's things that newer screenwriters learn and regurgitate. And when they see it done differently in a script, they immediately think it's wrong because they don't know any better. But they think they do. For instance, on Script Mother, I had someone tell me that it's a rule that description must always be Character Name (age, description). I added more description through the character's action after that -- and he told me I was dead wrong. Everything has to be inside the parentheses. Not sure where the fuck he got that one from. But it IS extremely annoying. The rest of the review was littered with stupid fucking things he learned from someone else who claimed the "rule" as gospel.

Now, this isn't a shot at Rolo, I thought his comments were well thought out and definitely worth considering even though there were points I disagreed with. These are just my general thoughts and overall opinion on the subject of flashbacks: Most other writers on sites like these that comment on flashbacks can never articulate why it doesn't work. They usually just say "It messes with the pacing" or "it takes us out of the story", which to me sounds like they're just repeating something they heard from someone else about flashbacks. They can never explain HOW it messes with the pacing or takes us out of the story. The critiques on flashbacks are generally pretty general and vague.

Rolo at least had a well thought out opinion beyond that, though it's one I disagreed with based on this: Yes, often times flashbacks can be very distracting in some scripts -- usually, those same scripts are pretty poorly thought out and poorly written. And yes, I'll read a poorly written script where the flashback has no purpose and doesn't provide any new information, emotional impact or relate to anything in the scene -- which would make it unnecessary. But, if they do include those things I just mentioned and are placed properly (during a beat in the action/story or at a key moment where the flashback provides new information), I think flashbacks can be extremely effective. And, if they're effective and have an impact on the story or how we got to that current point in the story, they're necessary in the script IMO. If it were filmed, I don't think they'd be able to cut that scene out of the film. Also, just my opinion. And, of course, I'm biased lol.

But, yeah, just the mention of flashbacks, voice overs and title pages riles me up and makes me have flashbacks of my own lol. Maybe I'll write a blog about it, but there are so many screenwriter myth blogs out there already debunking these myths, you'd think they wouldn't be myths anymore.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2


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spesh2k  -  December 5th, 2020, 8:47pm
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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k


Yeah, stuff like that just really gets my goat (I sound like my grandfather).

Didn't mean to sound aggressive at all when responding to Rolo's comments -- he had really great points in regards to the script. It's just whenever I see these screenwriting myths come up, I kinda just lose my shit a little bit lol. The title page thing (you can only use 12 point courier) is one that pisses me off immensely. The flashback and the voice over myths are another one. Then there's things that newer screenwriters learn and regurgitate. And when they see it done differently in a script, they immediately think it's wrong because they don't know any better. But they think they do. For instance, on Script Mother, I had someone tell me that it's a rule that description must always be Character Name (age, description). I added more description through the character's action after that -- and he told me I was dead wrong. Everything has to be inside the parentheses. Not sure where the fuck he got that one from. But it IS extremely annoying. The rest of the review was littered with stupid fucking things he learned from someone else who claimed the "rule" as gospel.

Now, this isn't a shot at Rolo, I thought his comments were well thought out and definitely worth considering even though there were points I disagreed with. These are just my general thoughts and overall opinion on the subject of flashbacks: Most other writers on sites like these that comment on flashbacks can never articulate why it doesn't work. They usually just say "It messes with the pacing" or "it takes us out of the story", which to me sounds like they're just repeating something they heard from someone else about flashbacks. They can never explain HOW it messes with the pacing or takes us out of the story. The critiques on flashbacks are generally pretty general and vague.

Rolo at least had a well thought out opinion beyond that, though it's one I disagreed with based on this: Yes, often times flashbacks can be very distracting in some scripts -- usually, those same scripts are pretty poorly thought out and poorly written. And yes, I'll read a poorly written script where the flashback has no purpose and doesn't provide any new information, emotional impact or relate to anything in the scene -- which would make it unnecessary. But, if they do include those things I just mentioned and are placed properly (during a beat in the action/story or at a key moment where the flashback provides new information), I think flashbacks can be extremely effective. And, if they're effective and have an impact on the story or how we got to that current point in the story, they're necessary in the script IMO. If it were filmed, I don't think they'd be able to cut that scene out of the film. Also, just my opinion. And, of course, I'm biased lol.

But, yeah, just the mention of flashbacks, voice overs and title pages riles me up and makes me have flashbacks of my own lol. Maybe I'll write a blog about it, but there are so many screenwriter myth blogs out there already debunking these myths, you'd think they wouldn't be myths anymore.

-- Michael


Funny - I got into a title page debate with someone the other day. He of the no change in font or size ilk. Told him to wait a few years and it will be standard practice to put the effing poster on the title page


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Shout to Libby for the awesome front page write-up! If I sell it, I owe you and Don 10%

https://www.simplyscripts.com/.....y-michael-j-kospiah/

Also, keep an eye out on Script Shadow -- I probably won't win that Greatest Screenplay competition over there, but hopefully just being in the final 44 gives the script more exposure!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k
Shout to Libby for the awesome front page write-up! If I sell it, I owe you and Don 10%

https://www.simplyscripts.com/.....y-michael-j-kospiah/

Also, keep an eye out on Script Shadow -- I probably won't win that Greatest Screenplay competition over there, but hopefully just being in the final 44 gives the script more exposure!

-- Michael


Jesus Christ that was a good write-up!!!!!

Libby ought to be in the treatment business.  I'd pay her.

Good luck on the Script Shadow wing-ding - rooting for ya.




My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Quoted from eldave1


Jesus Christ that was a good write-up!!!!!

Libby ought to be in the treatment business.  I'd pay her.

Good luck on the Script Shadow wing-ding - rooting for ya.



I know, right? Much better than my one-pager. Might actually make changes to the one pager using some of this... without sounding like I'm self-celebratory lol, complimenting my own script.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Quoted from spesh2k


I know, right? Much better than my one-pager. Might actually make changes to the one pager using some of this... without sounding like I'm self-celebratory lol, complimenting my own script.


Hey - use every arrow in the quiver.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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LC
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Thanks, guys. So happy you like the review, Michael. It's a terrific script and I wanna know when it gets bites!

P.S. I like that saying, Dave. Not sure I've heard that one before.


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Quoted from LC
Thanks, guys. So happy you like the review, Michael. It's a terrific script and I wanna know when it gets bites!

P.S. I like that saying, Dave. Not sure I've heard that one before.


my pleasure - a terrific job by you


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Quoted from LC
Thanks, guys. So happy you like the review, Michael. It's a terrific script and I wanna know when it gets bites!

P.S. I like that saying, Dave. Not sure I've heard that one before.


Thanks again, Libby! I loved your use of restaurant lingo in the review! I'll definitely be bragging shamelessly if/and/or when it gets some bites. Seeing this up really made my day!

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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spesh2k
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Giving this a bump because it seems to be a topic of discussion on Script Shadow. For some reason, I'm unable to say my peace about my own script on the message board, it only let me post like 2 comments while the rest have been pending for about 4 hours now.

I do disagree with Carson, obviously, but he does have a point about the script going off into slasher territory after page 25. For some reason, I have a feeling that if he saw a movie version, he'd change his mind -- he seemed to enjoy similar films like "You're Next" and "Becky" which had pretty similar tones and pacing. But I could be wrong. Kinda sucks I can't really comment on anything on Script Shadow's sight (Disquis fucking sucks).

http://scriptshadow.net/why-do-scripts-fall-apart/

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Grandma Bear
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I haven't read the article yet. We had a fire at work today. Came close to burning down the building!!!!  Anyway, I think Carson isn't a real fan of slasher type scripts, but I could be wrong. I check his blog every day, but only read if I find it interesting. I agree with Disqus though. That's why I can't comment on anything there anymore. Why don't you give us your input here?


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spesh2k
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I haven't read the article yet. We had a fire at work today. Came close to burning down the building!!!!  Anyway, I think Carson isn't a real fan of slasher type scripts, but I could be wrong. I check his blog every day, but only read if I find it interesting. I agree with Disqus though. That's why I can't comment on anything there anymore. Why don't you give us your input here?


It would be more satisfying to actually comment on the comments made by Script Shadow members, addressing their questions directly. Dave let me know it was up on Script Shadow and, because my fucking comments are taking 8 hours to post, he put up the link for me for those who wanted to read the script. Now there's some jackass troll who thinks me, Dave and Gary Rowlands are the same person but using different accounts to kiss my script's ass. It's REALLY fucking pissing me off that I can't comment.

-- Michael



THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Oh, I see. Yeah, that sucks. I would chime in and tell them you're a real person, but like I said, Disqus won't let me.  


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spesh2k
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
Oh, I see. Yeah, that sucks. I would chime in and tell them you're a real person, but like I said, Disqus won't let me.  


I've tried like a million times, and it keeps putting my comments on pending. Fuck Script Shadow lol, shouldn't be that hard. Sucks I can't comment on my own script that was mentioned in this article without my knowledge.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
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Quoted from spesh2k
Giving this a bump because it seems to be a topic of discussion on Script Shadow. For some reason, I'm unable to say my peace about my own script on the message board, it only let me post like 2 comments while the rest have been pending for about 4 hours now.

I do disagree with Carson, obviously, but he does have a point about the script going off into slasher territory after page 25. For some reason, I have a feeling that if he saw a movie version, he'd change his mind -- he seemed to enjoy similar films like "You're Next" and "Becky" which had pretty similar tones and pacing. But I could be wrong. Kinda sucks I can't really comment on anything on Script Shadow's sight (Disquis fucking sucks).

http://scriptshadow.net/why-do-scripts-fall-apart/

-- Michael


Micahel, since I apparently wrote the script, I am going to have to insist on some royalties


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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spesh2k
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Quoted from eldave1


Micahel, since I apparently wrote the script, I am going to have to insist on some royalties


Lol sure. I'm still pretty fucking pissed that I can't comment on Script Shadow, it's driving me insane right now.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Quoted from spesh2k


Lol sure. I'm still pretty fucking pissed that I can't comment on Script Shadow, it's driving me insane right now.


I can imagine!


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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LC
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Carson's entitled to his opinion, but...

The direction he suggested that it stay at - as a character piece e.g. abused woman kills husband? It's much more than that type of story.

Finally, have a plan for your second act. This is where most scripts fall apart because it’s the moment where the writer has to actually write the story. The first act is just setting up the concept you came up with. But the second act is where we need to feel like there’s a plan in place. We need to feel like the characters have goals or a clear direction.

When I first read Honey Mustard the killing scene was shocking and I thought WTH, but then you need to read the rest to have the pieces of the puzzle all fit together.

Dave said this:

There are a lot of plot premises that folks are making suggestions on that really are not relevant (i.e., things didn't happen that way). I don't want to go into details because it would spoil some twists.

Exactly. People should not just blindly agree and comment if they haven't read the entire script, which most of them hadn't prior to commenting.

Dave and Gary (gazrow) gave it a nice thumbs up and then got accused of being Michael himself, by some eejit.

Oh well, what's that saying:

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

Oscar Wilde

Of course getting the facts right is always good too.

P.S. Why can't you comment further?
Ah, the old pending trick.

I agree. It sucks.


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spesh2k
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Quoted from LC
Carson's entitled to his opinion, but...

The direction he suggested that it stay at - as a character piece e.g. abused woman kills husband? It's much more than that type of story.

Finally, have a plan for your second act. This is where most scripts fall apart because it’s the moment where the writer has to actually write the story. The first act is just setting up the concept you came up with. But the second act is where we need to feel like there’s a plan in place. We need to feel like the characters have goals or a clear direction.

When I first read Honey Mustard the killing scene was shocking and I thought WTH, but then you need to read the rest to have the pieces of the puzzle all fit together.

Dave said this:

There are a lot of plot premises that folks are making suggestions on that really are not relevant (i.e., things didn't happen that way). I don't want to go into details because it would spoil some twists.

Exactly. People should not just blindly agree and comment if they haven't read the entire script, which most of them hadn't prior to commenting.

Dave and Gary (gazrow) gave it a nice thumbs up and then got accused of being Michael himself, by some eejit.

Oh well, what's that saying:

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

Oscar Wilde

Of course getting the facts right is always good too.

P.S. Why can't you comment further?


I have no idea why I can't comment, every one of my comments outside of maybe 2, have been pending with the moderator for like 5 hours now and it's extremely irritating. Especially when my script is being talked about without me being informed prior to the article posting. Now, I don't mind that the article mentions my script, but it's fucking infuriating that I'm unable to comment on other people's comments and address any questions they have. It's EXTREMELY irritating.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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LC
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Oh, I'd be spitting chips. I feel for you.
They're all just wrong anyway.


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spesh2k
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Quoted from LC
Oh, I'd be spitting chips. I feel for you.
They're all just wrong anyway.


Most of the comments on the board are pretty fair, considering none of them read the script for themselves. If anything, they're just asking questions... which I'm trying to answer.

And then I can't respond to that fucking troll on there, either... I'm ready to throw my computer lol.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Heretic
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"These characters are too well-written for a genre movie" is not a good critique.

Nor is "the big thing that happens in the script shouldn't be what happens."

...although I guess it's even sillier than that. He's saying, "this script shouldn't be the genre that it is." Haha.

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Heretic  -  February 19th, 2021, 12:00pm
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spesh2k
Posted: February 19th, 2021, 2:00pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Heretic
"These characters are too well-written for a genre movie" is not a good critique.

Nor is "the big thing that happens in the script shouldn't be what happens."

...although I guess it's even sillier than that. He's saying, "this script shouldn't be the genre that it is." Haha.


Yeah, I guess it just didn't go into the direction that he wanted it to go in or expected it to go in. Which, I dunno, to me, would make it predictable... which he's against. Carson does contradict himself often. But, regardless, he just wasn't a fan of the script. So far, the readers on the discussion board seem to enjoy it to a degree -- which is surprising because of how harsh the boards have been to me in the past (with Morphine, 8 years ago, and Corpse Flower, 5 years ago).

-- Michael



THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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Matthew Taylor
Posted: February 19th, 2021, 6:06pm Report to Moderator
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Who is Carson and why do people care what he says?

Had a quick look at the site and I can�t see your script there, so are people commenting on a script they have never read and basing their opinion purely of the article itself?

Genuine questions, I�ve never been on scriptshadow so don�t know what it�s about


Feature

42.2

Two steps to writing a good screenplay:
1) Write a bad one
2) Fix it
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eldave1
Posted: February 19th, 2021, 6:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Who is Carson and why do people care what he says?

Had a quick look at the site and I can�t see your script there, so are people commenting on a script they have never read and basing their opinion purely of the article itself?

Genuine questions, I�ve never been on scriptshadow so don�t know what it�s about


It's a pretty decent site, IMO. There is a lot of engagement because typically during the week there are 4 to 5 screenwriting topics posted (everything from script reviews to dos and don'ts of writing). So, it is pretty interactive.

Some things Carson states are brilliant, some okay, and some silly. But there are a lot of gems of good advice there and a lot of script reviews.

Some people love him. Some hate him. To me - he hosts a free site for amateur writers to discuss scripts - I think that is a good thing.


My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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Grandma Bear
Posted: February 19th, 2021, 7:05pm Report to Moderator
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And people hope to some day have a script that he likes and shows it to Hollywood people...  


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LC
Posted: February 19th, 2021, 9:06pm Report to Moderator
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Carson was hoping to move into Producing this year too (well, last year) but Covid got in the way.

I don't think his word is God, but I get a lot out of some of the articles he publishes on ScriptShadow, so it's definitely worth my while lurking and adding the occasional comment.


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spesh2k
Posted: February 19th, 2021, 11:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Who is Carson and why do people care what he says?

Had a quick look at the site and I can�t see your script there, so are people commenting on a script they have never read and basing their opinion purely of the article itself?

Genuine questions, I�ve never been on scriptshadow so don�t know what it�s about


Carson is just a regular, cool dude just like anybody else. The writer of "Wish List" claimed to worship him, which I don't get. I don't understand people who worship other people. All my heroes are in sports -- in other words, they do shit I have no possibility of accomplishing. But, whatever. Carson, who reads THOUSANDS of scripts, definitely has some gold nuggets of wisdom. And he has a website which some big producers pay attention to. It's like Mel Kiper w/ the NFL draft. Mel Kiper never played football in his life, never coached, but he's an expert on college football prospects. And, I won't lie, he's right about a lot of them. And he has a permanent gig w/ ESPN. Carson's good people. But just because Mel Kiper is decent at predicting NFL draft prospects doesn't mean he'll be the GM of an NFL team. Take it with a grain of salt, appreciate when you're mentioned. That's all I'll say.


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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eldave1
Posted: February 23rd, 2021, 3:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from spesh2k


Carson is just a regular, cool dude just like anybody else. The writer of "Wish List" claimed to worship him, which I don't get. I don't understand people who worship other people. All my heroes are in sports -- in other words, they do shit I have no possibility of accomplishing. But, whatever. Carson, who reads THOUSANDS of scripts, definitely has some gold nuggets of wisdom. And he has a website which some big producers pay attention to. It's like Mel Kiper w/ the NFL draft. Mel Kiper never played football in his life, never coached, but he's an expert on college football prospects. And, I won't lie, he's right about a lot of them. And he has a permanent gig w/ ESPN. Carson's good people. But just because Mel Kiper is decent at predicting NFL draft prospects doesn't mean he'll be the GM of an NFL team. Take it with a grain of salt, appreciate when you're mentioned. That's all I'll say.


And like Mel Kiper - sometimes Carson is just going to be flat out wrong. Kiper recommended picking Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning. Huge error - BUT - that doesn't make his general knowledge and recommendations any less worthwhile. Everyone who takes a chance or has an opinion will blow it for time to time. Carson and Mel are no different.



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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