Psychodelic by Sarah de Groot - Thriller - While working to complete a psychological study to in order to pay for his schooling, a young man turns to psychedelics and violence to confront his demons. 113 pages - pdf format

Writer interested in feedback on this work

Ahoy Sarah,

Welcome to the boards.

Um, the tone here could be the introduction to a drama, a TV series, a disaster movie, but I just didn't feel "horror."  Thriller? Can you give me an idea of the/genre/tone you were aiming for? Any comments I'm gonna make will depend on some more info. -Andrea

I read 16 pages in... I can't yet comment on the story and or plot, but the premises and theme are well early set up. The pacing is good (so far - only page 14). A few minor format issues. Speak to you soon Sarah.      

Quoted from ghost and_ghostie gal Ahoy Sarah, Welcome to the boards. Um, the tone here could be the introduction to a drama, a TV series, a disaster movie, but I just didn't feel "horror."  Thriller? Can you give me an idea of the/genre/tone you were aiming for? Any comments I'm gonna make will depend on some more info. -Andrea

Hi Andrea!

Definitely aiming for the Thriller genre! My typical style is for sure family drama, or drama in general, so this is a step out of my comfort zone. I'm open to any tips, ideas, critiques- anything!! Only learned to write from watching thrillers and reading their screenplays

Ahoy Sarah,

Dang! I should've done this yesterday. Clearly you do have some writing chops, no doubt about that.

I am not one who thinks that you have to start with a big bang on the first one or two pages. But just remember that you have to capture the reader's attention fairly soon. Horrors start with fear. Thrillers usually start with some action or some thrills. My biggest concern is not that the bang does not happen in the first few pages but that it doesn't come until well into your second act.

For the most part, I think this is a fine opening, I think you quickly gave us a deep insight into Milo's character through both his actions and dialogue. And it also does something else -- tell us that Milo is the character that we are meant to follow for the movie.

In a nutshell, I liked this in principle, and though I can see what you're going for here and it's not bad, but  If you want this to be a thriller, you need to tighten up the action and dialogue and get to the thrills faster. For example, scene 5, Professor Englund’s classroom  is 7 1/2 pages and doesn't need to be more than 5. One thing that would help is getting into that scene late, and out early.  Dialogue’s not bad, actually it’s pretty decent,  just think IMHO, it might be a little too much? In other words, consider trimming some of the more bulky passages.

Second thing I noticed: you have a lot of alternating lines... meaning, line-dialogue-line-dialogue... alternating lines like that make your writing not so good... it shows that your relying too much on your action lines to give the mood and mindset of the character, when in fact, the mood and mindset should be done at the beginning of the scene AND through the dialogue itself, not through a bunch of action lines that some don't need to be there, it slows down everything... now, notice your dialogue is pretty good and more entertaining when there aren't a lot of alternating lines and its just dialogue-dialogue-dialogue... um, i hope you get what i'm saying,

But more importantly, thrillers also benefit from suspense and since there’s next to nil thrills in the first forty pages, then.. you really need to amp up the suspense and tension a notch or two through out the first act...

So I've been harping on about finding places where you can increase the tension and suspense in the first act:

Scene 14: Cameron: If you can get me more of this...all will be forgiven! The entire scare will never be mentioned again, and I’ll never complain, not once, if my jeans are ruined! Which they probably are.

Just for a tiny scare? It’s weak. A way to make it stronger; Maybe Cameron has a panic attack or he starts hyperventilating instead.

- Cameron is having trouble breathing. He’s desperately trying to reach his asthma breather, but can’t. He looks to them for assistance.

- Cameron’s having trouble breathing, He takes out an asthma breather and takes two puffs.
- Or someone from the group helps Cameron begin diaphragm breathing exercises.

Or maybe a prank gone wrong.

My opinion -- too many jump scares become cliché. You have the one prior with Monique. That's fine, but why not do something different with Cameron's. Just suggestions, but you get my point.

Scene 61: Um, not sure it’s the best idea to have characters talk about what already happened when the audience already saw it happen. A minor tweak is needed there.

Oh yea, one more thing. Don't number your scenes.

Hmmm... Joel (Milo's father). I can't recall at the moment. What happened with him?

Like I said, the second, and third acts is where things really picked up. That said, I'm not analyzing those too deeply, no enough time.

I was onboard with Milo initially, but the further along I got he became unlikable to a point where I started to not give a hoot about him. Unlikable is one thing, but very unlikable is another. He's ur protag, be careful. Don't make it too difficult to win your audience over in the end.

Wait...wait... let me clarify. No ur protag doesn't have to be likable, and I'm not saying Milo isn't. My point...more so counterpoint is this; every good character has flaws, but on some level a reader has to be able to empathise with them. Even if it's a small amount. And I did. Make sense?

My biggest issue is that we spend so much time with Milo& Monique. I'm not going to say Monique had no self-respect. I figured she was going to be the force(I was hoping) that changes Milo but ends up being humiliated and controlled in a sense by him. And then your ending, no spoilers--but...I wasn't expecting that. Wow! Just wow!  I get it, I do, but at this point...I'm not real sure how I feel about it. Um, I know most will not see it coming.

Sorry I don't have time for anything else, I'm writing on the fly. Forgive my grammar errors. Um, when I get a chance, I'll have another look-see at third act to see if maybe I missed something, if anything, to give you a more definite answer on the ending. Overall, I did like this, but some tweaks are in order.  

Anywaz, this is all opinion. You can take it all with a grain of salt. S'up to you. -A

Quoted from ghost and_ghostie gal Ahoy Sarah, Dang! I should've done this yesterday. Clearly you do have some writing chops, no doubt about that. I am not one who thinks that you have to start with a big bang on the first one or two pages. But just remember that you have to capture the reader's attention fairly soon. Horrors start with fear. Thrillers usually start with some action or some thrills. My biggest concern is not that the bang does not happen in the first few pages but that it doesn't come until well into your second act. For the most part, I think this is a fine opening, I think you quickly gave us a deep insight into Milo's character through both his actions and dialogue. And it also does something else -- tell us that Milo is the character that we are meant to follow for the movie. In a nutshell, I liked this in principle, and though I can see what you're going for here and it's not bad, but  If you want this to be a thriller, you need to tighten up the action and dialogue and get to the thrills faster. For example, scene 5, Professor Englund’s classroom  is 7 1/2 pages and doesn't need to be more than 5. One thing that would help is getting into that scene late, and out early.  Dialogue’s not bad, actually it’s pretty decent,  just think IMHO, it might be a little too much? In other words, consider trimming some of the more bulky passages. Second thing I noticed: you have a lot of alternating lines... meaning, line-dialogue-line-dialogue... alternating lines like that make your writing not so good... it shows that your relying too much on your action lines to give the mood and mindset of the character, when in fact, the mood and mindset should be done at the beginning of the scene AND through the dialogue itself, not through a bunch of action lines that some don't need to be there, it slows down everything... now, notice your dialogue is pretty good and more entertaining when there aren't a lot of alternating lines and its just dialogue-dialogue-dialogue... um, i hope you get what i'm saying, But more importantly, thrillers also benefit from suspense and since there’s next to nil thrills in the first forty pages, then.. you really need to amp up the suspense and tension a notch or two through out the first act... So I've been harping on about finding places where you can increase the tension and suspense in the first act: Scene 14: Cameron: If you can get me more of this...all will be forgiven! The entire scare will never be mentioned again, and I’ll never complain, not once, if my jeans are ruined! Which they probably are. Just for a tiny scare? It’s weak. A way to make it stronger; Maybe Cameron has a panic attack or he starts hyperventilating instead. - Cameron is having trouble breathing. He’s desperately trying to reach his asthma breather, but can’t. He looks to them for assistance. - Cameron’s having trouble breathing, He takes out an asthma breather and takes two puffs. - Or someone from the group helps Cameron begin diaphragm breathing exercises. Or maybe a prank gone wrong. My opinion -- too many jump scares become cliché. You have the one prior with Monique. That's fine, but why not do something different with Cameron's. Just suggestions, but you get my point. Scene 61: Um, not sure it’s the best idea to have characters talk about what already happened when the audience already saw it happen. A minor tweak is needed there. Oh yea, one more thing. Don't number your scenes. Hmmm... Joel (Milo's father). I can't recall at the moment. What happened with him? Like I said, the second, and third acts is where things really picked up. That said, I'm not analyzing those too deeply, no enough time. I was onboard with Milo initially, but the further along I got he became unlikable to a point where I started to not give a hoot about him. Unlikable is one thing, but very unlikable is another. He's ur protag, be careful. Don't make it too difficult to win your audience over in the end. Wait...wait... let me clarify. No ur protag doesn't have to be likable, and I'm not saying Milo isn't. My point...more so counterpoint is this; every good character has flaws, but on some level a reader has to be able to empathise with them. Even if it's a small amount. And I did. Make sense? My biggest issue is that we spend so much time with Milo& Monique. I'm not going to say Monique had no self-respect. I figured she was going to be the force(I was hoping) that changes Milo but ends up being humiliated and controlled in a sense by him. And then your ending, no spoilers--but...I wasn't expecting that. Wow! Just wow!  I get it, I do, but at this point...I'm not real sure how I feel about it. Um, I know most will not see it coming. Sorry I don't have time for anything else, I'm writing on the fly. Forgive my grammar errors. Um, when I get a chance, I'll have another look-see at third act to see if maybe I missed something, if anything, to give you a more definite answer on the ending. Overall, I did like this, but some tweaks are in order.   Anywaz, this is all opinion. You can take it all with a grain of salt. S'up to you. -A

Ahhh thank you so much for this feedback! I definitely see what you're saying about the big bang in the first few pages and feel that all of your thoughts will be immensely helpful in my upcoming rewrites!!

I have my scenes labeled for my sales agent- she's a big fan of number breakdowns, lol. However, just for my knowledge, why shouldn't the scenes be numbered?

Quoted Text I have my scenes labeled for my sales agent- she's a big fan of number breakdowns, lol. However, just for my knowledge, why shouldn't the scenes be numbered?

That's fine to give your agent or manager a copy with scene numbers to make it easier to discuss notes. Or if you want to number your scenes for some personal reason while you're writing, that's fine.  For instance, so scenes could be more easily referenced, but when you send your script out as a SPEC remove the numbers. Scene numbering is usually done when a draft is locked after it is sold to facilitate the break down of the script for production and so any revisions made can be tracked.  

I'm about 21 pages in, and unfortunately, I don't know what your movie is about.

You're good with prose and your dialogue is fluid. It almost seems effortless, but none of that matters to me if I don't care about the characters or understand the story.

By page 15, I should have a good idea of what your movie is about. Consider how many minutes does it take to know what the movie Terminator or Alien is about. When it comes to the horror genre you only have a few minutes to make a statement.

Even a slow burn like "the Witch", in the first 5 minutes I know exactly what's at stake for the family - they are banished from a plantation and are trying to carve out an existence on a wild piece of land where a murderous witch lives.

When it comes to descriptions, there are two schools of thought. Some writers describe the minutiae of every inch of scenery others will put down only what the reader needs to know about the location. I encourage you to be economical with your descriptions.

Regarding format. It's implicit that the movie begins on page 1, there is no more need for "Fade In" in screenplays. Save as much paper as you can. "Fade In's take up a few lines of paper.

This is probably a bit nitpicky on my part.

"MILO
STOP TALKING ABOUT MY FUCKING
MOTHER!"

In my opinion, Milo saying "Fucking Mother" is disrespectful to his own mother. Unless he has that sort of hatred toward her, I don't think he would say that when defending the honor of his late mother from the gossipers.

Maybe later on I will learn more about Milo that explains this behavior, but on page 1, IMO it feels jarring.

In the first 21 pages, I would like to know what's at stake for the character and what is standing in the way of getting what he wants.

Regarding suspense, remember to take your time with it. Tension builds suspense and jump scares release it. Don't let the audience off the hook, by releasing the tension too much.

Also, it's not necessary to number your scenes if you're presenting a spec script. Numbering scenes are for the assistant director/DP to create a shot list.

I will finish the rest of your story hopefully by the end of this week and I will talk more on the plot.