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BLB, sorry I didn't get back to you the other day. Covid family emergency, and then Pia jumped in, thank goodness.
You made some great comments. I particularly like your comment here:
Quoted from BLB
That moment when Ethan’s voice comes over the radio was chilling and deserving of a freakout. I don’t know how well it would work but in theory, at least in my mind, it would help to lean into that even more because if the creature sees her reaction to that voice, he may want to use it more at moments of conflict. This method of attack was one of my favs because it directly applies to the logline “forced to confront the fears of her past.”. ...
The psychological terror angle here should definitely be made more of imho. I hope to develop it further.
Regarding Darby and her self imposed exile it's ironic really that she's free, out in the open/escaped Ethan but no matter where she is still feeling imprisoned and looking over her shoulder.
I think I was just trying to draw the distinction between her choosing to live in the woods and it being a self-imposed prison because of her ex. It seems like the latter. For me, it determines how I'm supposed to feel about her leaving.
Glad to see your line of thought here, Bee -- and thanks for all the great comments! For my part at least I'm definitely hoping that we get to a strong story about Darby leaving a self-imposed prison, as you describe.
No worries, LC. Hope everything's okay or getting there.
Thanks for the replies! I love that aspect of the creature and story! After watching Prey, I'm even more excited for something like this. Can't wait to read more about it.
BLB
Commodus: But the Emperor Claudius knew that they were up to something. He knew they were busy little bees. And one night he sat down with one of them and he looked at her and he said, "Tell me what you have been doing, busy little bee..."
I read it. I know you've gotten coverage and so much feedback here on SS so I'm trying to be somewhat novel in what feedback I give you.
I know I shared with LC some ideas for the opening sequence because ya'll wanted to avert the cliched "woman running through the woods from her abuser" trope, but I'll reiterate what I said in that DM - I think the current opening works really well. It's immediate, tense, it's action lines are really visceral. It telegraphs the context of Darby and Ethan's relationship immediately which means you don't need exposition later. You could definitely aim for a more subtle opening if you wanted, but you'd be sacrificing one of those elements that worked really well. Tropes in fiction exist for a reason - they work well!
Some small stuff I noted:
*You don't often use character descriptions at all aside from age. This is fine for the most part. I do kind of like being given a way to picture a character in my head. Perhaps I overuse them in my writing. The characterisation is strong enough that of course major characters still end up being unique and identifiable, but if you want extra texture you could always slip in one or two adjectives for the major characters.
*I really enjoyed Adrianne. She's not a terrific person but her writing was engaging. I've always liked a bit of difficult character.
*Embaressingly, I have to admit that the sluglines for "4runner" and "airstream" confused me at first but maybe I don't have a great attention span or comprehension, because when I reread it it came into view
The thing is tightly plotted and structured - to the point that I couldn't really have much to say about this - but I did note that the final sequences feel like they move along really quickly, like they were a tiny bit rushed. They're still tense and mostly effective, but with the script only being 90 pages, you could have spared a few pages to make those last ten a little more smooth (this is me really reaching for something constructive to say, though).
My annotation for page 82, under "Stalker POV", simply reads 'reminds me of 2001 a space odyssey'. Who knows what I meant when I wrote that.
I'm very curious how five writers worked. I can barely co-write with myself. I'm guessing you did it by passing the script around (I guessed this because I downloaded the script, and the filename is "Relentless - CSPass") for redrafts. I'd be really interested in how the writing process worked, though.
Anyway - sorry. I feel like I don't have too much actionable feedback. I enjoyed it. It reminded me of IRL hollywood produced scripts. It didn't read like one of those spec scripts that get posted online on reddit and stuff
Hola! I saw this yesterday, but I'm still kind of sickish from that Covid we had three weeks ago. We're both Negative, but still have lingering effects. I haven't done much of anything lately. Tomorrow is Saturday, so I will respond to your comments then. I really appreciate you reading and commenting and I don't just want to scribble up something in return. I want to take my time and think about it.
I know I shared with LC some ideas for the opening sequence because ya'll wanted to avert the cliched "woman running through the woods from her abuser" trope, but I'll reiterate what I said in that DM - I think the current opening works really well. It's immediate, tense, it's action lines are really visceral. It telegraphs the context of Darby and Ethan's relationship immediately which means you don't need exposition later. You could definitely aim for a more subtle opening if you wanted, but you'd be sacrificing one of those elements that worked really well. Tropes in fiction exist for a reason - they work well!
I'm not sure we all wanted the opening changed. I think most of us liked it. Marnie wrote it, btw. I think we started discussing it when some people reading were not fans of it and then Carson said in his blog how he absolutely hated that trope, so we started wondering if we need to scrap it.
*You don't often use character descriptions at all aside from age. This is fine for the most part. I do kind of like being given a way to picture a character in my head. Perhaps I overuse them in my writing. The characterisation is strong enough that of course major characters still end up being unique and identifiable, but if you want extra texture you could always slip in one or two adjectives for the major characters.
I thought we did pretty good with the descriptions in the character intros and then adding visual things like their differences in luggage for example. You don't agree?
*Embaressingly, I have to admit that the sluglines for "4runner" and "airstream" confused me at first but maybe I don't have a great attention span or comprehension, because when I reread it it came into view
We'll look at that because if nothing else, it needs to be consistent.
The thing is tightly plotted and structured - to the point that I couldn't really have much to say about this - but I did note that the final sequences feel like they move along really quickly, like they were a tiny bit rushed. They're still tense and mostly effective, but with the script only being 90 pages, you could have spared a few pages to make those last ten a little more smooth (this is me really reaching for something constructive to say, though).
Thank you and I do think we all agree. It mostly comes from, I think, the fact that the beginning has been read over and tweaked the most and the ending the least. Hopefully, we'll be able to make the ending more satisfying.
My annotation for page 82, under "Stalker POV", simply reads 'reminds me of 2001 a space odyssey'. Who knows what I meant when I wrote that.
I'll have to look into that. Great movie and amazing director, so if anything in our was even remotely reminiscent of 2001 it's worth taking a second look at.
I'm very curious how five writers worked. I can barely co-write with myself. I'm guessing you did it by passing the script around (I guessed this because I downloaded the script, and the filename is "Relentless - CSPass") for redrafts. I'd be really interested in how the writing process worked, though.
To be honest with you, it''s not something I would recommend and not something I plan on doing again. It was very difficult and with each writers' draft, you basically had to read the whole thing after every draft. That gets tedious and time consuming and later on you start to lose interest. If you're the only writer, you know what changes you made and can sort of skim through. So, what I thought would be a fun thing to do here with members turned out to be a very difficult thing even though all the writers are experienced and know their s*^t.
Anyway - sorry. I feel like I don't have too much actionable feedback. I enjoyed it. It reminded me of IRL hollywood produced scripts. It didn't read like one of those spec scripts that get posted online on reddit and stuff
Again, thank you so much for reading and commenting! Means a lot to us. I'm sorry it took me so long to respond. Been struggling with this Covid crap for three weeks now. Hopefully it will be gone soon since I have a trip planned on Thursday...
I finally read "Relentless" and cannot imagine how five independent writers can "simultaneously" create a functioning, quality single-story screenplay. So congrats.
I'm not sure if you are still taking critiques. I've got a lot to say, but by now, you might have moved on to a new draft. If so, I'll read the revision before commenting.
Who wouldn't want a review from you? Especially on a horror. I intended to rewrite this one before the end of August, but all kinds of unplanned things happened, so...
Anyway, if you have any thoughts and suggestions, just let us know. Libby and I are both working on two different versions.
I’m not a fan of dream sequences, but it’s an informational device and so, it serves a purpose.
The opening is a bit of a grind because we go from — dream sequence with symbolism, to a montage of Darby’s day, to Darby’s insomnia and her viewing of Ethan’s video program on a cell phone (what the heck? Or is this another dream, to standard reuniting with old friends, to establishing the personalities of the new characters, to the hitting the road and catching up on ancient news.
Then it’s on to the campsite and more activities. All this in the first 10 pages. That was a lot for me to ingest without a hint of what’s coming.
I think the Cloud makes its first appearance on page 11. BTW, I loved this element in the story. I’m trying to incorporate a cloud in my rewrite of a short, so was very curious as to how you would use it. Luckily your cloud serves a different, unique purpose than my cloud
•. Suggestion: Maybe introduce the cloud earlier. Have a diff. character notice it, like Darby. If it appears and disappears on her, we might think that she is struggling with reality.
I do love that Shannon notices it and comments on it. Maybe Adrienne also notices the cloud and tries to snap a photo of it.
— As for the introduction of characters, it is pretty much by-the-numbers. Everybody shows up close to the same time and then it’s a getting reacquainted session.
• Suggestion: Maybe stagger the arrivals. I’d love to see Shannon and Meg traveling together. Establish their relationship before meeting up with the others.
Adrienne and Tress can share thoughts about Darby before she meets with them.
I took a look at a few movie OPENINGS of friends uniting, and they were all different and interesting. _________
I didn’t care for Adrienne because she is an obvious narcissist and they usually aren’t likable. But I can’t totally hate her. She has a couple of nice exchanges that might be misinterpreted by her friends: on page 7, Adrienne suggests to Meg that she download an app with tons of beauty and make-up tips. Meg is insulted, but I’m not sure Adrienne was being mean. I took it as she was trying to connect with Meg. But I’m being generous in my interpretation.
on page 9, Adrienne heaps some praise on Shannon who is doing military push ups. She even suggests Shannon could start an online channel and draw a following. Shannon isn’t interested.
I like to think Adrienne, in her own way, was “trying.”
Some of the early dialogue between the women seems manufactured. Would you considered making it more organic and in the moment? Adrienne can take a group selfie with the Cloud in the b.g. If the cloud is absent from the photo, it could spark a debate about altering reality. _______________
I read from one of the writers that the AR was not a hostile entity, but was on earth to gather samples, data, and such. The idea that AR is on a sample-collecting mission is Fantastic. I really love the idea that it is not here to create havoc.
Unfortunately, is there any suggestion that the AR is here for scientific purposes?
We never see that it is anything but a dangerous killing machine.
What I loved about the old Universal “Frankenstein” movie was that the monster was not roaming the countryside with destruction on its mind. The monster was looking for companionship and to stay out of danger.
Why I mention that… who the hell knows?
Would a scene showing the AR gathering samples improve or hurt the story? Maybe a scene with the AR encountering a predator in the woods? ________________ On p 15 you have a scene of the ladies experiencing an intense high-pitched sound which paralyzes them momentarily. What does this signify? Soon after, an owl falls out of the tree. The bird is slashed… because it has a tracker. So, does the AR consider the tracker as a weapon at this point? The owl presents no danger to the alien, so it would not use the tracker in a threatening way.
Was an owl selected for budget purposes? I mean an owl? I keep picturing the cute, mechanical owl from Clash of the Titans.
The opening is a bit of a grind because we go from — dream sequence with symbolism, to a montage of Darby’s day, to Darby’s insomnia and her viewing of Ethan’s video program on a cell phone (what the heck? Or is this another dream, to standard reuniting with old friends, to establishing the personalities of the new characters, to the hitting the road and catching up on ancient news.
Hmmm. To be honest, I haven’t read the script in its entirety now for some time. I’ll have to see how this hits me when I do. It’s good to stay away for a while and come back with fresh eyes.
I think the Cloud makes its first appearance on page 11. BTW, I loved this element in the story. I’m trying to incorporate a cloud in my rewrite of a short, so was very curious as to how you would use it. Luckily your cloud serves a different, unique purpose than my cloud
We had a bit of a panic when the film Nope first came out because of the cloud in it. I’m glad you liked it.
•. Suggestion: Maybe introduce the cloud earlier. Have a diff. character notice it, like Darby. If it appears and disappears on her, we might think that she is struggling with reality.
Never even thought of that, but that is a pretty good idea. I’ll see if I can work that in there somehow.
— As for the introduction of characters, it is pretty much by-the-numbers. Everybody shows up close to the same time and then it’s a getting reacquainted session.
• Suggestion: Maybe stagger the arrivals. I’d love to see Shannon and Meg traveling together. Establish their relationship before meeting up with the others.
Adrienne and Tress can share thoughts about Darby before she meets with them.
Again, another good idea. Could give some hints about Darby’s backstory there.
I didn’t care for Adrienne because she is an obvious narcissist and they usually aren’t likable. But I can’t totally hate her. She has a couple of nice exchanges that might be misinterpreted by her friends: on page 7, Adrienne suggests to Meg that she download an app with tons of beauty and make-up tips. Meg is insulted, but I’m not sure Adrienne was being mean. I took it as she was trying to connect with Meg. But I’m being generous in my interpretation.
I think that was intended as suggesting Meg should be doing something about her looks. Kind of a putdown, in other words.
on page 9, Adrienne heaps some praise on Shannon who is doing military push ups. She even suggests Shannon could start an online channel and draw a following. Shannon isn’t interested.
That exchange was meant as a, “I wish I was that fit. Imagine what I could be doing with my profile then.” Also, getting Shannon, and the others to realize that being an influencer on social media is real and you can be famous and make money that way. So, I guess she’s kind of being nice there, but only thinking in terms of her world and what she would do if she looked like Shannon.
Some of the early dialogue between the women seems manufactured. Would you considered making it more organic and in the moment? Adrienne can take a group selfie with the Cloud in the b.g. If the cloud is absent from the photo, it could spark a debate about altering reality.
I’ll have to see how it reads to me now that I’ve been away for a bit.
I read from one of the writers that the AR was not a hostile entity, but was on earth to gather samples, data, and such. The idea that AR is on a sample-collecting mission is Fantastic. I really love the idea that it is not here to create havoc.
Unfortunately, is there any suggestion that the AR is here for scientific purposes?
The idea with the Alien Robot was that it is sent to Earth as a probe by a long ago, far away, advanced society to gather information about this planet. It only becomes hostile when they try to hurt it. That was the idea at least. It can be tricky to give the right and necessary information, but not too much. Getting the right balance somehow.
We never see that it is anything but a dangerous killing machine.
What I loved about the old Universal “Frankenstein” movie was that the monster was not roaming the countryside with destruction on its mind. The monster was looking for companionship and to stay out of danger.
Why I mention that… who the hell knows?
Would a scene showing the AR gathering samples improve or hurt the story? Maybe a scene with the AR encountering a predator in the woods? Another good idea with the Frankenstein sample. Maybe it tries to help an animal or human before it’s attacked?
[quote=Abe_from_LA]On p 15 you have a scene of the ladies experiencing an intense high-pitched sound which paralyzes them momentarily. What does this signify? Soon after, an owl falls out of the tree. The bird is slashed… because it has a tracker. So, does the AR consider the tracker as a weapon at this point? The owl presents no danger to the alien, so it would not use the tracker in a threatening way.
Was an owl selected for budget purposes? I mean an owl? I keep picturing the cute, mechanical owl from Clash of the Titans.
I was actually going to change that in my next draft. Others might keep it, but to me, the owl dies because it was near or in the way of the AR’s entry into our atmosphere. Something entering our atmosphere and landing here is usually a pretty violent event. At least that was my thinking a looong time ago when this was first started, lol.
I like the idea of the AR being invisible, initially, but not throughout the story.
I’ve lost track, but was there a point in the story that the AR was rendered visible? Or was the alien freely bouncing between visibility and invisibility?
Does the human’s visibility coincide with the AR’s visibility?
— I haven’t seen the original Predator in so long, but why was the alien visible toward the end of the film? Was its invisibility system damaged? Just comparing notes.
Have you created a back story for the AR’s visit to earth? Is the collecting/testing of earth samples for the AR robots to ultimately inhabit our planet? More curious than concerned…
For clarity’s sake, on page 23, when Adrienne fires gunshots up into the trees. Is she shooting randomly or at the AR? In a previous scene, I think she had assumed the weaver stance and was aiming straight ahead. Just wondering from which direction Adrienne was attacked?
On page 26, Shannon instructs Darby to “grab those headlamps.” Darby then enters the Airstream and opens a storage case for headlamps. The headlamps, I assume, is lying next to or under the Restraining Order.
Question: Did Shannon go through the storage case in a previous scene and know the headlamps were stored there? In which case she would have seen the restraining order.
On Page 27, a Man’s voice (Ethan) is heard over the CB radio saying, “I just want to talk.” Courtesy of the AR. This CANNOT be happening in Darby’s mind — so, how would the AR know Ethan said these words? On page 1, that same line is spoken by Ethan in what I thought was a dream sequence.
Can the AR read a person’s thoughts?? A little confusing.
The dialogue exchange between Darby and Shannon on p 28 is forced and awkward.
Quoted Text
DARBY But I’ve been alone. Now you’re all here…
SHANNON … He’s on the other side of the country. And you were alone, but you’re not. We’re here…
Another exchange that can be reworked to add tension, on page 29.
MEG You think that was her shooting?
SHANNON If not, it means we’re not alone out here.
As the ladies search for Adrienne, Shannon has some wicked dialogue. Bottom of 31, “I have no idea, but whatever it was, I don’t like it.” P 32, Shannon and Meg find Adrienne’s phone and severed fingers. Shannon says about the fingers, “She’s gonna want these when we find her. C’mon.”
INCONSISTENCY — (P 32). Shannon continues into the woods, “headlamp sweeping, looking for clues.”
Can’t happen. The headlamps were blown out minutes earlier and Shannon is now relying on a “pocket light.”
P 33
If you want to keep this line, I would have a different character (than Adrienne) say, “That’s what killed the owl.”
I like the idea of the AR being invisible, initially, but not throughout the story.
I’ve lost track, but was there a point in the story that the AR was rendered visible? Or was the alien freely bouncing between visibility and invisibility?
This was purely for budgetary reasons. There are places where we can see parts of it. We figured even a small time low budget production could come up with pieces that could be part of an alien probe. Showing the whole thing, especially moving would be a different matter. Of course, there are some filmmakers out there that can do amazing things with very little expense, but loads of imagination.
Does the human’s visibility coincide with the AR’s visibility?
— I haven’t seen the original Predator in so long, but why was the alien visible toward the end of the film? Was its invisibility system damaged? Just comparing notes.]/quote] The AR is not invisible at all. The characters can see it, but have no idea what it is. We kind of pictured it being a little similar to the robot dogs in Black Mirror’s Metalhead, which was modeled after Boston Dynamics robot.
[quote=Abe_from_LA]Have you created a back story for the AR’s visit to earth? Is the collecting/testing of earth samples for the AR robots to ultimately inhabit our planet? More curious than concerned…
The AR comes from a civilization far away where the original beings/aliens were killed off as their machines/computers developed their own ability to learn and think for themselves. The AR is only a probe though and not one of the decision makers. They have destroyed their own planet and are just looking for a new place to expand to.
For clarity’s sake, on page 23, when Adrienne fires gunshots up into the trees. Is she shooting randomly or at the AR? In a previous scene, I think she had assumed the weaver stance and was aiming straight ahead. Just wondering from which direction Adrienne was attacked?
I think it’s dusk at that time and she first assumes it’s a person out there somewhere, but can’t really see. She feels threatened and shoots at something moving. The weaver stance is just the most common for a steady aimed shot… I think.
On page 26, Shannon instructs Darby to “grab those headlamps.” Darby then enters the Airstream and opens a storage case for headlamps. The headlamps, I assume, is lying next to or under the Restraining Order.
Question: Did Shannon go through the storage case in a previous scene and know the headlamps were stored there? In which case she would have seen the restraining order.
Those things were added in the latest draft, so I can’t say that I remember that part very well. It’s quite possible though that it will be changed in the rewrite since quite a few people didn’t care for that angle.
On Page 27, a Man’s voice (Ethan) is heard over the CB radio saying, “I just want to talk.” Courtesy of the AR. This CANNOT be happening in Darby’s mind — so, how would the AR know Ethan said these words? On page 1, that same line is spoken by Ethan in what I thought was a dream sequence. Can the AR read a person’s thoughts?? A little confusing.
I need to look into this closely. The AR can definitely not read human minds. Radio waves yes, and it can tap into digital stuff like recordings and that sort of thing.
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Relentless
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I'll have to look into that. Great movie and amazing director, so if anything in our was even remotely reminiscent of 2001 it's worth taking a second look at.
, to standard reuniting with old friends, to establishing the personalities of the new characters, to the hitting the road and catching up on ancient news.
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