The Fisherman by Kirsten James - Horror - A shrimp boat laborer on a mission to turn his life around finds out that leaving things too late can have deadly consequences. 123 pages - pdf format

Writer interested in feedback on this work

Hi all.. If anyone is interested in reading this, I wanted to point out that this is the first official draft and my first finished feature. I'm aware that there needs to be some tweaking with the dialogue and writing, but my main concern right now is the story, (is it cool, would you watch this?) structure and pacing. I nearly gave up on this, but like a good girl finishing it was just as an important goal as getting it right. Anyways thanks in advance and I will most definitely return the favor.. cheers K....

Kirsten, congratulations on finishing your first feature! That is huge! I have not read the script, I've got too much on my plate these days, but my thoughts on the little I've seen are these.

I suck at loglines more than anyone on this planet, so I can't really offer up a suggestion, but I can say that it doesn't really tell me much. "A shrimp boat laborer on a mission to turn his life around finds out that leaving things too late can have deadly consequences." This tells me the protagonist is a shrimp boat laborer and he's on a mission to turn his life around, but that's it. Why does he want to turn his life around? Is he an alcoholic? An absent father? A gambler? What? What is too late? Turning his life around? What is deadly? What's the danger/antagonist? What stands in his way to succeed? Here's a link to writing loglines. It's not easy, but some people here at SS are great at it. Libby and Eldave come to mind, but there are others as well.  
https://raindance.org/10-tips-for-writing-loglines/

Second thought. It says this is a horror script. At 123 pages, you are about thirty pages too long. I've seen horror scripts that are as short as 70 pages, but they can be over 100 as well. 123? Not really. That sort of screams overwritten. A drama? Yeah, but even then, it would be considered on the long side these days. If I were you, I'd go over this again and look for ways to trim.

Third thought. I opened the script and my first thought was that it looked like you wrote in in MS Word or something like that. Not that there is something really wrong with that, but that sort of screams newbie.

You can get away with a lot of things if you have a great story that grabs a reader, but when the first thing a potential reader sees is an unclear or non intriguing logline and a page count that is outside the norm for the genre, and written in Word (if that's what it is) you're not setting yourself up to get a lot of reads.

Also, this place used to be incredible with the feedback writers would receive. Shorts and features. Features especially would get long and very thoughtful reviews, but things have changed. I have a hard time getting read these days as well and I have definitely put in my time as a reviewer over the years. Not sure why things have changed, but they have. If you don't get anyone reading, try asking for a reader exchange.

Good Luck.  

Hey Kirsten!

I'm a big fan of fishing boats, so naturally your logline interested me and I thought I'd check it out! Here's the notes as I'm reading along:

- You have a very nice, strong opening! Can't wait to see what happens that leads up to these circumstances.

- 10 pages in and I'm enjoying the brisk pace of your writing. Easy, straight to the point descriptions and every scene pushes the story and anticipation forward so far!

- A couple capitalization errors on 17 and 18, and run on sentences. I see you're not really looking for any typo help right now, but since they're very few and far between, I figure I'd point them out instead of you having to dig for them at a later time.

- Pg. 19:  You put Trentsville, NC and OH, 44240. I figure you just mean NC.
(All right, this part isn't important, you know, suspension of belief and dealing with a fictitious town and all... But as an Ohioan, I feel I have to call out the Kent State zip code. I mean, we got a decent lake up North I guess, but it ain't no damn ocean!)  All right, silly unimportant rant over!

- Bottom of Pg 23:  *They are both naked.

- Great intensity building up from pages 20-23! I'm definitely invested in the story at this point!  The writing is great, (maybe a couple on the nose lines of dialogue, but nothing that really distracts), and I really like the feel of the town and ocean setting. I love the atmosphere you've set up.

I wish I didn't have to go to work right now, because I feel if I had the time, your writing is pretty brisk and fast paced, I feel like I could read this all in one sitting, which is great for a feature script!

I can't wait to get home tonight or wake up in the morning and continue it!  A great job so far!

- Mark

Hey Pia! thanks so much for taking a quick look.. and thanks, it's great to finally say I have feature under my belt.

Ah Yes... the logline is weak and I'm embarrassed to say I threw it together just so I could get this posted. Thank you for the links. I'll work on it and get it updated. It's one of those ones where I have to make it intriguing but not give much away.

I'm using FADE IN software, so DAMN if it comes across as amateur.

You are right about the length it's too long and that's something I'm wanting to work on...

I've noticed too, how quiet things are now on SS. I jumped on board in 2016, and I love this place and won't be leaving. As far as I'm concerned it's still the best screenwriting community out there.

So thanks again Pia..



Hi Mark, my fellow Ohioan! I'm in Kent! lol wow you know the zip code.. that's impressive.... I'm originally from NZ, so that lake for me is a fictitious replacement of the pacific ocean when I'm missing it.. you can imagine my suspension of belief when that thing is frozen over... Frozen ocean?? so anyways I will fix my OH error..

Anyways I'm really glad you are enjoy this, wow, I hope like hell the rest is good!! thanks for pointing out the errors, you really don't need too, I will be going back through this with a fine tooth comb if it seems like a worthwhile project to keep on with....there will be more errors I'm sure along with OTN dialogue etc.. so sorry in advance..

Again thank you so much!

Hi Kirsten

Well done on finishing a feature! it's a bloody tough task!

Just to let you know I am reading it at the moment in chunks (work is busy). Currently up to page 25 so will give some of my views when I finish it  

Matt

Quoted from Kirsten Ah Yes... the logline is weak and I'm embarrassed to say I threw it together just so I could get this posted. Thank you for the links. I'll work on it and get it updated. It's one of those ones where I have to make it intriguing but not give much away. I'm using FADE IN software, so DAMN if it comes across as amateur. You are right about the length it's too long and that's something I'm wanting to work on... I've noticed too, how quiet things are now on SS. I jumped on board in 2016, and I love this place and won't be leaving. As far as I'm concerned it's still the best screenwriting community out there.

Try posting your logline here. Those that are really good at it often visit there and are usually very helpful. https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-logline/

FADE IN:? Interesting. On my computer at least, it looked very much like MS Word. Maybe just the font? Very faint like. Maybe I'm just getting old.  

Looks like you have a few readers now. Both will give you great feedback too.

Hi Kirsten

Well done for getting your first draft out there.

I note that you have given feedback on other people’s features in the past so certainly deserve some reads on your own work.

I have now finished the ‘Fisherman’ and for the most part, found it an enjoyable and engaging read.

Let’s start from the beginning – great start. You start with a bang. I like it.  That unnerving scene involving Max and his family at the start left a great hook for me to read on.

So, up to about page 50, I was engrossed.  Everything was working for me – the pacing, the subtle scares and the pure mystery surrounding what was going on.  I had no issues with the dialogue either, I thought it was fairly crisp and to the point.

For me, a little after when John was killed, my engagement waned a little. I think it was a couple of things – 1. It got less subtle and turned into a more in-your-face-type narrative. For me, Ghost Max had lost his fear factor, I think I was seeing too much of him. I would rather not see him interact with the other characters too soon and perhaps just have the characters mention those interactions to Michael to keep up the suspense and mystery. If you know what I mean, lol. And that, of course, is subjective.

2. I think the characters behaved a little strangely to the going-ons. I’m chiefly talking about Bobby and Shaun’s blasé acceptance of a ghost Max being on the loose. It was just weird to me. Sky, I understand but I kinda expected everybody else to dismiss it as psychic nonsense. I appreciate Michael does exactly that.

Also, the jokes and sniggering from Michael and Bobby when Sky goes over the house – It just seemed strange behaviour given what those two had just been through on the boat with John.

That said, I think your narrative picks up again in the final third. I’m cool with the catalyst behind the mystery and I like the way you present it.  And I like how you entwine scenes from the past to help tie it all up.

I enjoyed the final showdown between Michael and his evil counterpart and I always like a negative outcome when it comes to horror films!

So whilst I had a few misgivings in the middle I was always engaged to find out what the sitch was and that kept me reading and it would also keep me watching as a viewer.  That should bode well for you.

I wish you luck with this – Def an imaginative and engaging story.

Cheers Colin

Thanks heaps Pia, I will take a look at the logline page. I should google if anyone else thinks Fade In looks MS wordish??  I can change the fonts, at the moment it's courier new, maybe that's why it looks wordish... so I think you're in the clear, it ain't you getting old

And yeah I'm getting some really helpful feedback from some awesome writers....I'm Loving it..



Hey Matthew! Thank you heaps for taking a look at this! Look forward to your thoughts, no rush, Work --I totally get it...




Hi Colin, thank you soooo much for the read! This is great feedback! I did struggle with the middle, and you have very clearly stated exactly what's wrong with it! Thank you.. I can see what you are talking about!
I'm also very pleased to see you didn't get lost and confused in the end... 'naming' the antagonist correctly, and all that story intertwining was a challenge... again, thank you so much, this is gold!

Hello Kirsten again! Sorry it took a while to get back to this one!

I'll delve right back in!

Pg 23-30
-  I'm pretty sure I know what's going on, but it seems kind of disjointed and I have to keep going back and reading things over and over, which is really disrupting the flow of the story, at least within these pages.
I wonder if there might be a way to write the hallucinations/ghosts so it reads smoother without having to go back and make sure I didn't miss an action description or something.
I still like what's going on, it's just a little tedious to follow.
Also, were Michael and Max 'identical' twins? I'm not too sure if that was clarified or not.

Up to Pg. 41 now
- Interesting! I'm following along a lot easier now and I'm back into the brisk original flow of the story again.

Pg. 41-50
- Great suspense here in these pages! I was excited by everything going on and the way you're setting everything up! I barely knew John, but I'm strangely cheering for him and hoping he somehow made it, though I have a feeling that isn't going to be the case.

Pg 53
- Okay, got the answer if they were identical twins or not. It was bothering me, so I went  back and reread the home video descriptions from the beginning and you did describe that they were twins. I don't know why that didn't process with me over into their adult timeline. Might just be me paying too close attention to other things and not enough of exact descriptions, but I thought I would mention it.

I was able to get up to Pg. 77 before work this morning.
- Things are gliding along very nicely! I haven't really noticed any down moments in the pacing or any real lulls in the action. And the suspense keeps building and building and keeping my attention. I can't wait to see where this keeps going!

I'll continue as soon as I get another chance!

- Mark

OT. A most welcome voice from the past.
Great to see you, Mark!  

Hey Mark, thanks again for looking at this.

Getting confused with the twin thing made me realize I need to write 'identical' twins when I introduce them. I never thought of that once while writing this, so good spotting. Your confusion is legit..

I just took a look at page 77 and noticed I have called Max/Ghost  'Max' in the action lines, so please ignore, I'll fix it.

SPOILERS!

I took a look at pgs 23- 30 in most part I'm sure you are allowed to be confused, this is when things start getting weird with the death of Max. I won't explain cause I think I might end up giving things away. I will take a good look at it though. there's obviously something wrong in those pages that I need to correct...

Thanks again Mark!!!

Hey Kirsten!

- About the identical twin thing, just something I was thinking about... When there's flashbacks, how is the audience going to know when it's Max or Michael? (I have a twins script myself whose minds are able to switch between bodies, and man is it a pain in the ass to explain in the script who is who!) Sure, in the script, us writers and our readers will know who's who because we can clearly read their names, but onscreen, the viewer won't have that luxury and the film can become just a jumbled mess.

All right... back to the script!

Pg. 80
- It's getting a little hard to follow with the flashbacks and I have to go back and reread to smooth out the time jumps. Maybe an END FLASHBACK or a BACK TO PRESENT transition can help unmuddle those.

Pg. 86
- It just seems a little off and forced and out of personality for Michael to just show up at the dock without even acknowledging or calling Ray back. I mean I get that Michael's supposed to be coming unhinged, but this just seemed like a big personality jump for him.

Pg. 90
- Ah, you do use END FLASHBACK. I think you just missed one of the transitions around pg. 80 that confused me.
- Also on pg 90... 'Quietens' ? I'm not sure if it's a typo or a NZ expression.  (By the way, since we're on the subject! I have noticed a few colloquialisms from NZ and Australia that would never fly in Ohio, nor North Carolina. But I didn't mark them down or mention them because I think they're adorable! I wish I would have noted them because I can't remember any offhand, but I'm a fan!)

All right, so from pages 90-99, the story's seeming a little forced and hurried now. There's also a LOT more typos than usual, which is a clue to me that you did rush through this part of the story, and you're rushing to get to the ending and getting that notch in your belt of having a finished screenplay.
And now we're also Flashbacking between 3 different time periods and even multiple scenes within those time periods. For me, it's really meddling with the flow of the story. It's just getting too jumpy.

Pg. 99
- For 1807, the dialogue is reading very modern, or at least a 1950's-60 sitcom like 'Leave it to Beaver' with the mother explaining manners to her children and talking about rudeness.

Pg. 102
- Tony's texting... FROM THE MIDDLE OF AN OCEAN?!! Talk about the greatest data coverage EVER! (Lol. Maybe I'm just pissy because the building I work in is like a black hole of interference and I have to go to the restaurant next door to even make a phone call!)

Pg. 112
- It took me about 20 minutes of racking my brain and combing through past pages to remember who Jane was. She was totally forgettable. And I still don't get why she says 'My daughters'. Did we ever meet them? I don't remember them at all.

Pg. 119
- I'm not sure how I feel about them being called doppelgangers. Especially by Sky, a clairvoyant of all people. It seems VERY on the nose for her to refer to them like something as comedic as a doppelganger. It seemed even weird to read in the descriptions, let alone in the characters' dialogue.
- Also, there a lot of exposition here from Sky that seems off key from how the first 80 pages of the story were told.

Hmm.  It seemed to me like kind of a waning, messy ending.

All right, my ENDING THOUGHTS:

- From pg. 77 on, the whole story seemed kind of rushed and forced. Like I had mentioned before... Like you were just hurrying to get to the ending.

- The flashbacks were really very meddling.  Now, I am not at all opposed to flashbacks and myself, I love them! (And voiceover too for that matter even though it very frowned upon these days but that's another discussion!) However, I feel with this story, the flashbacks just go too far and there's too many and it really messes with the flow of the story, which stinks because the first two-thirds of the story were flowing at an amazing pace!

I really loved the beginning of this, and the middle!  I think you're a great writer and I'd love to check out more of your stuff. However, in the last third of the script, I just feel it loses a lot of steam and you had lost sight of what you had going. It seems like you put so much work into the first 80-ish pages, then just rushed everything from there on out to get to the ending.

You did a great job and I loved the characters and I ESPECIALLY loved the atmosphere and you did an amazing job setting up the story! I can't wait to read it again after you put some more focus on the back half!

- Mark

Hi Mark

Thanks again for this in depth and awesome critique!


Good point! I will make sure it's clear who's who on my re write. I think all along I was assuming the audience would know since I have their names on the page, and that the director would deal with the imagery, but no, I'm still responsible for that.

Yep I see why it's confusing on page 80 there is a flashback, present day, then dream sequence and I've named the dream sequence 'flashback'. I'll get that fixed. I need to write 'present day' when she wakes up.

I'll take a look at Michaels personality jump in the boat scene.. yeah I was trying to figure out a way to get him back on the boat without them knowing. I did want to show that Michaels is getting desperate now, but if it's presenting as forced and at odds with his personality, I'll work on that.. great you pointed that out!

Quietens, yep its a british thing handed along to us kiwis, but I shouldn't use it here, the boat aint' no person.. quieten definition: to (cause someone to) become calmer or less noisy:

I always forget that I throw in Nz terms that I don't know about.. lol... I'm glad you find them adorable..

Okay the back and forth between scenes is too much and is a big contrast to the previous pace of the story and it's making you confused and its annoying? Good, this is going to be the section I cut back drastically to drop the page count. I do want some confusion so that the audience feels confused along with Michael, but the confusion has to match Michaels and obviously there is a big mis match.. I'll work on it..I need to slow things down.


Okay got to get to work.. BRB

I finished reading. I wrote notes as I went and I have copied and pasted below, so they might be a bit of a ramble. (The quotes don't appear to copy/paste in the correct format, hopefully you can see what I'm on about lol)

A strong and intriguing opening to lure us in.
Michael is a good character so far, heavily flawed but I can empathize with him. Interested in his arch.
The settings are really good. The docks, fishing boat, colonial house. I’m getting a very dark, dreary, hopeless mood from it. Even little details like the 1950’s rotary phone pull us into this mood, very good.

Quoted Text MICHAEL Hello. PRISON OFFICER(O.S) Is this Michael Jones? MICHAEL Yeah it is. PRISON OFFICER (O.S) I'm very sorry to inform you that your brother Max passed away this afternoon. MICHAEL Okay. (his face drops) Okay….You shouldn't have called me. Ah, you need to call Rosemary Jones. She’s his/my Aunt. It should have been in his file to call her. You shouldn't have called here. I don’t have anything to do with him. No, it’s okay. Thanks, Bye.

I feel like this was a bigger moment that deserved more attention. Don’t they convey the circumstances around the death? Not sure if you reveal that information later on, but theres a chance here… or if it’s an important plot point to reveal it later, we could have a “We are still investigating the circumstances” to let us know if it wasn’t straight forward. Guess I’ll find out later in the script.
Also, a chance to inject a little bit of conflict. Maybe Max kept Michael as his next of kin despite Michael not wanting to, later the prison sends him his personal artifacts a chance for Max to send a final message? We know Max accused Michael of the murders, so maybe he kept him as next of kin just to mess with him, make him feel guilty, or piss him off having to sort out arrangements for his remains… just spit balling now.

The strange goings on are good, sometimes creepy. Michael (or alternative Michael?) saying mean/controversial things to people is having a real life impact on him, building up nicely to the boat scene where it has deadly consequences.
I really like that boat scene.

Quoted Text RAY (cont'd) And personally I don't think I'm up  to going back out yet. Johns family is threatening to sue me. I need some head space to sort this out. You're not fired. I've known you too long and you are the least crazy person I know. Max was a good man. He got sick. You're not Max. Now, are you going to let me get back to my business?

I’m not entirely sure why, but I found it odd Ray would mention Max here, there is no precursor to it (Like Michael saying something like “I’m losing it like Max”)

Quoted Text RAY Do you remember talking to Henrietta last night?

The way it is makes it seem like it’s the same night. If I was Ray, I would not have waited a full 24hours to make that phone call lol

Quoted Text INT. SPARE BEDROOM Michael heads in and turns on the light to see... max/ghost standing in front of him, noses almost touching. Michael freaks out and swings at max/ghost. As his hand is about to touch max/ghost, max/ghost disappears. Michael's hand swipes through the air. He looses his balance, but catches himself. He looks around. Nothing. Michael gets angry. Yells to the empty room. MICHAEL Leave me the fuck alone!

Not sure how I feel about this scene. Coming nose to nose wit him like this kinda take some of the mystery away.

Quoted Text HOSPITAL ROOM Dr. Robinson kisses Amy on the neck. CORRIDOR Michael sees this. He turns and walks off quickly.

I’m not a fan of these movie cliches of characters only managing to see the 2 seconds it looks incriminating, or only overhearing incriminating parts of conversations. I find them a bit too convenient and coincidental (Plus he appears to have some kind of ghost brother fucking up his life right now, so seems odd to rely on convenience when you already have a story tool to do it)

Hmmm, losing me a bit with the confrontation wit Max in the casino. Seems to have taken away a lot of the thrill/mystery for me. The ghost is now fully materialized and communicating normally, but in a really busy, brightly lit chirpy setting of a casino (far from the earlier, more lonely, moody settings).
I would make the encounter more ominous, more horror-ry.

For me the flashbacks are acting more like story road bumps rather than pushing the narrative forward. I don’t see the point in the one on page 79/80, it’s all info we already know.
Again, the flashback on page 89/90 seems pointless, we already know Michael gave it to her as a birthday present. I can’t see what this scene does other than muddy the waters with another flashback.

The 1800’s dialogue needs work but I think you probably already know that.

Tony – I’m confused by the exchange – Tony stole a car and sold it, via strangulation?
I don’t think this story needs this many flashbacks towards the end at all, it’s really taking the narrative and moving it backwards and forwards. A lot of it we already know, or can infer, it’s like you are trying to show us absolutely everything, from every angle.

The Max realisation letter doesn’t make much sense. So he must have accused Michael after the murders, obviously, and at some point while incarcerated he has a realisation that it wasn’t Michael, instead something evil. But what exactly triggered this realisation? The way it is written he was having doubts any of the strange happenings was actually Michael before the murders, and then he actually comes face-to-face with his doppelganger right after he kills his family, so he knew it wasn’t Michael.

Another example of showing us too much:

Quoted Text INT. DOCK - DAY The Old Fisherman peers onto the boat. He sees blood all over the deck, his view is limited but he sees a bloodied hand. He gasps, pulls out his phone, moves in closer.

To show us this, you have had to come back to the dock scene from the parking lot, when really, all we need to see is the old man walking towards the boat behind Michael as he runs past, we can infer he saw the bodies and called the cops.

Quoted Text MICHAEL (cont'd) Letters that he sent me when he was in prison, I never read them. I just didn't want to have anything to do with him. SKY So what did he say? MICHAEL Something was following him around and looked just like him and that it, killed Emily and Nate. SKY Yeah! It was his doppelganger. And this is what's happening to you. It's not Max, never has been...The witch I told you about..she exists. After that dream I had with the woman and the statue, I did some research, there was a witch, back in the early 1800's that lived up in the woods behind the school. It said she got harrassed and assaulted by twin boys. So.. as revenge.. she carved out a small statue of them, put a curse on it and gave it to them... as a gift. The statue you gave Emily for her birthday is that exact same statue. You're Doppelganger... is tormenting you on purpose so you'll kill yourself, but if you do kill yourself, you will end up in hell. 119. MICHAEL Jesus Christ... I thought prison visitors were suppose come here to make us feel better.

All of this we already know – sure they are telling each other stuff the other doesn’t, but we the audience are having to sit through it for like the 3rd time.

The End
I do love a tragic ending.

Closing notes:
-     Way too many flashbacks, a lot unneeded. They stall the story quite a bit.
-     The original 1807 curse is important, but I would weave it into the story better, rather than a couple of big flashbacks and that’s it. I know we see the cabin at the beginning briefly, but I would add more in, early on, to build up to the climax of it. Include the cursed object more and early. Its an important plot point but is a bit of a throwaway at the moment, with no attempts to destroy it or anything.
-     A lot of double information and too much information. Trust the audience better.
-     I like the doppleganger angle, and I think you’ve done it better than “US”
-     Some great settings and a nice moody piece.