Quoted from CoopBazinga I have to say that this sounds kind of harsh, Vin. A lot of peeps on here may not know as much as others but they're certainly no random dude just given advice. Everyone tries their best I hope to give the best feedback possible and it all should be taken in even if it's not to your liking. We're all amateurs at the end of the day right? I take this personally because when you asked for reads I replied and left feedback and I'm certainly not one of the 10 you mentioned for sure, who are the 10 BTW? And I've never read Save the Cat. More of a dog lover myself Sorry to bring this up but it sounded disrespectful to a lot of us and even you admitted you're in the same boat so I have to wonder why to say this? Not meaning to start an argument here at all, just letting you know my feelings on that comment

I'm not the guy you're talking to obviously but I think the two of us read his comment differently. I don't think he was calling everyone else a random person who's read Save the Cat once. I think he meant that outside of the 10 people he knows well, there is no way for him to know anyone's credentials for sure. I don't think he was saying we have no credentials as much as he was saying that he has no guaranteed way of knowing our background.

Sorry if I'm speaking out of place.

He was probably talking about me. But sorry, that won't shut me up!  

I never make any claim to being anything other than a rank amateur. I share what I think, and that's how I learn, because when I'm wrong, someone usually tells me.

And when no one corrects you, hundred of newbies die.

Cinemachado, if you are serious about that, think about this: with any advice you get, no matter what the issue, and certainly if you are taking it from an online source, you should never follow one source.

Get numerous opinions, weigh things yourself, and make a decision. I can definitely tell you that I've received great advice from veterans and I am grateful, but I have also received advice from veterans that turned out to be quite wrong, and I am glad I follow no one blindly.

Listen to people, but blaze your own path, my friend. The prize in a quest is reserved for bold.

And I can't think of any instances where I have given any really bad advice, or anything that would have harmed a newbie. Rather the opposite, I think, but again, people should weigh evidence and think for themselves.

I was not serious. Just making a dumb joke.

I wholeheartedly agree with your advice though.

If I were to listen to one person's advice I'd end up with their script.

I have one rule when I accept advice.  The person giving the advice needs to prove to me they understood where I was headed with my script.   If they can do that, it doesn't matter how inexperienced they might be, I will listen to their advice with open ears.

And yes, E.D., I would like to obtain a copy of this script (my email is on my profile). Cheers.

Quoted from mcornetto I have one rule when I accept advice.  The person giving the advice needs to prove to me they understood where I was headed with my script.   If they can do that, it doesn't matter how inexperienced they might be, I will listen to their advice with open ears.

I agree. A lot of times it is very apparent that someone half-assed a read. Completely ignoring something that was blatantly and clearly on the page.

Even when this happens I like to make sure I wasn't vague or unclear, but a lot of times you know the person skimmed your script.

Quoted from mcornetto I would like to obtain a copy of this script (my email is on my profile). Cheers.

Sent.

Partly from the experience of reading this script, I have developed a new and simple theory on what a spec script should do.

Warning to Cinemachado: amateur advice to follow!  

Two things are needed for a spec script to succeed.

One, the first act, let's say the first 25 pages, has to absolutely blow the reader away.

Two, the rest of the script has to not stink.

Let me expand this into something more useful.

The opening act can't just be pretty good, even if the rest of the script is really good, or the script is real good overall. The reader makes up his mind in the first 20 to 30 pages. If you haven't won him over, you won't. If you have won him over, the challenge is to not blow it now.

If you have succeeded in knocking his socks off with your opening act, you've earned some leeway. He'll keep reading, with a positive attitude, and as long as nothing really stupid happens, you're in good shape. But those credits that you've earned should be cashed in at the midpoint to seal the deal.

So if you have a big twist, something that will jolt the reader, don't save until near the end, as is usually the case. Unleash your big shock device at the midpoint. Then, as long as the rest isn't awful, and the end is acceptable, you've probably sold your script.

(Cinemachado, I remind you, this is amateur theory, please approach with caution!)

Let's look at where scripts usually put there big twist: near the end. But my guess is that the pro reader has made up his mind long, long before he ever reaches that point.

If you've basically captured the reader with the first act, you can seal the deal with a great midpoint that wakes him up, fires him up to read the rest of the script.  

So 1) fire all your big guns in the opening act. Don't hold back, because you have to win that battle.
2) make sure the midpoint rocks. Move your twist up if you have to.

BTW, in the Disciple, he did not have the big midpoint. And he should. His big twist comes near the end. If he moved it to the midpoint, it would dramatically charge this script when it really needed it.

But Disciple did win Carson Reeves over based on the killer opening scenes. He said as much in his review. All he wanted was the rest of the script to not s@ck, and he was sold on it. That guy has a career now!

Quoted from mcornetto I have one rule when I accept advice.  The person giving the advice needs to prove to me they understood where I was headed with my script.   If they can do that, it doesn't matter how inexperienced they might be, I will listen to their advice with open ears.

Really? Go reread the comments for Thrice. Pretty much nobody got that script. I'm sorry, but if nobody is getting it, it's the writers fault.

Not picking a fight, Michael, but you know I don't understand alot of your scripts and sometimes it is me, but sometimes, it certainly is you.

I think you need to weigh a consensus from the reviews. I'm getting hammered for a few things on my feature and I have realized... I didn't pave it as clearly on page as it was in my head.

I think it is bad advice to only listen to those who've understood your script if most didn't.

James

EDIT: Kev, please send me this script when you have time. You've got my email....

Sending. Coincidentally, I am reading your script. Up to page 50.

Quoted from jwent6688 Really? Go reread the comments for Thrice. Pretty much nobody got that script. I'm sorry, but if nobody is getting it, it's the writers fault. Not picking a fight, Michael, but you know I don't understand alot of your scripts and sometimes it is me, but sometimes, it certainly is you. I think you need to weigh a consensus from the reviews. I'm getting hammered for a few things on my feature and I have realized... I didn't pave it as clearly on page as it was in my head. I think it is bad advice to only listen to those who've understood your script if most didn't.

There are times when my scripts are written not to be understood in a literal way.  If you understand that, then you understand my script because you understand where it's coming from.  There are people who did understand where Thrice was coming from even though they weren't able to interpret it in a literal way.   In the case of something like Thrice, I'm not going to listen to someone who says I should make it more literal because that isn't what I was after.

However, I do have other scripts that do have more literal interpretations.   And they abide by the same rule.  You get the script, I hear what you're saying.  And that isn't to say I don't pay attention when a number of people don't understand something - I just can't trust their advice because they don't understand it.  I'm not asking you for help on how to write a story like you would write it, I'm asking you to help me write a story like I would write it.  You can't do that if you don't get it, just like I can't do that if I don't get your script.        

Quoted from Felipe I'm not the guy you're talking to obviously but I think the two of us read his comment differently. I don't think he was calling everyone else a random person who's read Save the Cat once. I think he meant that outside of the 10 people he knows well, there is no way for him to know anyone's credentials for sure. I don't think he was saying we have no credentials as much as he was saying that he has no guaranteed way of knowing our background. Sorry if I'm speaking out of place.

I’m not sure if you’re busting my chops here, Felipe?

That’s the beauty of public forums and how we perceive things differently. Firstly, I want to state that I mean no offence to Vin when I said this, merely I found it disrespectful to newbie members like myself who’ve spent a lot of time doing reviews here.  Maybe I was quick to jump the gun and judge this statement but I stand by my comments.

All I meant was that you should treat feedback, whether it’s from somebody you know or somebody’s first post with the same respect and consideration.  They have given their time to read your script and leave feedback and done it for absolutely nothing.

And by no means are you speaking out of place, we all have our opinions and that was yours. Fair play to you.

Steve.

Quoted from mcornetto I have one rule when I accept advice.  The person giving the advice needs to prove to me they understood where I was headed with my script.   If they can do that, it doesn't matter how inexperienced they might be, I will listen to their advice with open ears. And yes, E.D., I would like to obtain a copy of this script (my email is on my profile). Cheers.

Check your in box!

E.D.

Quoted from jwent6688 I think you need to weigh a consensus from the reviews. I'm getting hammered for a few things on my feature and I have realized... I didn't pave it as clearly on page as it was in my head. I think it is bad advice to only listen to those who've understood your script if most didn't. James EDIT: Kev, please send me this script when you have time. You've got my email....

Hey James,

I'm coming into this chat late...
So pardon any misinterpretation, but I zeroed in on what you wrote here.

I tend to zero in on people that don't get my work, for instance...

The feature producer I'm writing for now is an excellent example.
When I first met him, he didn't like Clone Wife and Zombie Playground.
He didn't think they were commercial. Or that he could sell them.

I was drawn to A) his honesty and B) his DIVERSITY of OPINION.
I wanted to learn why he thought my stuff wasn't up to snuff.

Fast forward a few months, and now we're working together on several projects.
We got to know each other through combining our diversity of opinions.

And now, he's interested in my original work, not because of the script's merit.
But simply because it comes from someone he wants to work with.
So, he knows me better and wants to revisit those properties...
With the idea of championing them because he's thinking the same way I am.

It all comes back to shared knowledge through diversity of opinion, I believe.

We've got that going on where we learn from each other...
AND having that in common has made it easy for us to work together.

Whether it's here on SS... or in a feature producer's office...
I believe the concept is a great facilitator of enhancing the creative process.

Ramble complete.
End of line.

Regards,
E.D.

P.S. James, did you get the script yet?

I agree with Brett, and that's why everyone should give their opinion, whether it's the first script they've ever read or they've been doing this since Vaudeville. There is collective wisdom in the filtration process of multiple opinion.