Sicko is very deeply flawed as a documentary much like many of the arguments on here in favor of universal Healthcare.

In the UK there is no free further education, most graduates are leaving Uni with US $20-$40k worth of debt. I have no idea where this idea of free further education in the UK comes from but it is a lie.

The British National Health Service (NHS) is becoming a joke and every year it is becoming more an more unmanageable. The amount of money that it sucks up is beyond belief and yet the level of service it delivers gets worse year on year. The problem with the NHS is that it keeps people alive much, much longer. That is fine for people who contribute because they longer they live the more taxes they will pay to help the economy and fund the NHS. But the majority of people who's lives are being extended do not contribute into the purse at all, so the extra money needed has to be found from those that do. So taxes go up even more - It just cannot sustain itself for much longer and will implode very soon. They are already talking about not treating obese people, heavy drinkers and smokers in order to save money, the theory being anyone who falls under this category have made themselves ill. But they are happy to pay for nose jobs if some teenager can say that their crooked nose causes them mental anguish.

I am serious, many new treatments and drugs are not available at all on the NHS because they are too expensive so people with cancers and such end up going private anyway just to get the treatment they need. Waiting lists are sometimes a year long for major operations, It is impossible to find a NHS dentist now so many people just go without.

The level of TAX they pay in the UK is ridiculous, before I left I worked out that I was paying somewhere around 70% of my income in TAX. That is no lie. Not only is there my 40% income tax, but my 10% national Insurance contributions (these go towards paying the rent for jobless people and a small state pension that by time I retire will not exist anymore). I drink and smoke and the level of TAX on that is shockingly high. TAX makes up the majority of the fuel cost in the UK - around $3.00 a litre!. 17.5% VAT on all services and goods. And $3000 per year council tax that you have to pay just for breathing air.

And a very great deal of all that money go towards the NHS and GW Bush's world takeover.


I moved to Australia last year, probably a similar health service to the US. We will need to take out basic insurance and pay for any care we receive.  But oh my god you will not believe how much more money I have, I pay so much less in taxes it is unbelievable. And yet Australia is a much better country and my quality of life is 100% better.

My point is this, don't believe anything that Michael Moore tells you - he is full of shit! And be careful what you wish for!!

Quoted from Murphy I moved to Australia last year, probably a similar health service to the US. We will need to take out basic insurance and pay for any care we receive.

That's not true. You can see a doctor for free over here on Medicare. Two years ago I got my appendix out and have been to see other health specialists for free. I don't pay a cent for basic health insurance. But they need to spend more and get those elective surgery waiting lists down, which is exactly what our new government has pledged to do. Bring it on, I say.

Quoted from Takeshi That's not true. You can see a doctor for free over here on Medicare. Two years ago I got my appendix out and have been to see other health specialists for free. I don't pay a cent for basic health insurance. But they need to spend more and get those elective surgery waiting lists down, which is exactly what our new government has pledged to do. Bring it on, I say.

Not on our visa! Maybe when if/when we become permanent residents. Not sure about the new government, be careful what you wish for. I have just lived through 10 years of a labor government.

I was talking about the general population. I forgot you were on a visa. Ha. We've got wall to wall to wall labor governments now. But to tell you the truth I don't think it makes a lot of difference; over the years the Labor Party have become economic conservatives too.    

As for Michael Moore, come on, three Oscar nominations in the space of five or so years is a mighty effort.  

What can I say he has a lot of friends in Hollywood, they are natural supporters of his. But it is 90% politics and 10% movies when it comes to his Oscars.

He does what he does very well and with a certain amount of style I grant you, I just thinks he listens to his press a little too much and had forgotten how to make a serious documentary. he really does lie to make things fall his way and that does not make for a good documentary maker.

Everyone lies, Murphy.

Quoted from Takeshi Everyone lies, Murphy.

You sound like Gregory House.

I'll take that as a compliment. I bet House would've liked Sicko.

Moore does what he does in a very entertaining fashion. Even as someone fairly liberal, I kept thinking "oh come on" during a number of sequences. Anyone who watches his movies and accepts them as 100% gospel without doing any checking themselves are as misguided as someone who watches Fox News and buys into it. Some things presented in the movie are indisputible, some are just eye rolling moments. I watched it, had a good laugh along the way, then came back to 100% reality.

And to correct the first post above, this is not the worst piece of trash ever put on film. That honor goes to Boogie Nights

Well I finally saw the entire documentary. Here are my thoughts:

First, While I had seen the first half hour before and then turned it off because Michael's antics were annoying me, I will say that my first impression is that it's not Moore's worst documentary. That spot is held by Fahrenheit 9/11.

Even though I'm sure some people on these boards have come to see me as somewhat "right wing" I actually agree with free healthcare (to a certain point) and free education, the same way I believe in free police and fire departments (as the movie highlights as well). By Free I mean through taxes of course. However, healthcare should cover necessary operations, not frivolous check-ups (You have no idea how much people born after 1980 will want to be checked for here, because it's free) or plastic surgery. You lose your finger, you shouldn't have to pay for it to be re-attached.

Despite agreeing with Moore on a lot of these issues, I just couldn't help get nauseous during the movie. Let's be absolutely clear about this. Sicko is propaganda. It's a one-sided commerical for universal healthcare, propped up by the Tear-Jerker Strings Quartet and Moore's smug and infinitely condescending voice-over that goes something like this:

French woman: In France we don't pay anything for healthcare or education!

Michael Moore (pretends to be surprised): You're kidding me? Oh My God. that is amazing. Now, Instead of delving into figures and statistics let's dwell on these anecdotes to support my claim, which you as a viewer have no idea whether or not is legitimate since I offer pretty much no sources for anything.

Seriously Moore's idea of "depth" in a documentary is nicely illustrated when he's in Canada acting surprised that healthcare is free. First he shows one clinic that's smoothly run with nice staff and no waiting. He then does a VO that rhetorically questions whether he just happened to come across a really good hospital. CUT to another hospital "in the other end of town" where it's just as nice. THAT'S NOT HOW YOU GENERALIZE YOUR POINT!

You can't go from one example to another example and deduce that "I guess it's like that EVERYWHERE in Canada". You go from example to facts, to statistics. As Socrates taught us; anecdotes or pathos cannot win the argument alone. At least it shouldn't...

Moore also does his share of "nine-elevening" his points home, hi-jacking a traumatic and unrelated tragedy in the name of his cause. Poor taste.

And honestly I'm just getting sick of Moore's voice. I mean, god bless him that he doesn't appear more than he does in the film, but can't he just put subtitles in paklce of his voice or hire James Earl Jones to do it. I hate hate hate Moore's "I'm just an average Joe six-pack BUT" tone.

While I do agree that there is a problem with healthcare in the US, obviously I'll have to spend the next week or so verifying Moore's facts on my own to even begin to get a proper picture of things. That's really the problem with watching Moore movies. If you just watch the film and take its truths at face value you're not gonna know truth from lie. And since Moore has no intention of supplying sources himself, you have to do it yourself. It's such a hassle. Like proofreading poetry for a 2nd grader.

That's not to say that didn't get all choked up when he throws these horror stories at you. It IS horrible and tragic, but that doesn't make it a cogent or intelligent documentary. It's just a collage of emotional porn on Moore's part.

P.S.

Michael Moore resolves America's tense foreign relations with Cuba faster than Rocky solves the cold war in Rocky IV. Pretty impressive.


P.P.S.

I wanna recommend the documentary "Manufacturing Dissent" about Michael Moore made by left wing Canadians. It's not perfect but it has some very interesting interviews with some of those people interviewed by Moore who now feels very misrepresented.

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-movie/m-1195148751/s-new/

As far as Cuba's medical system goes, I work in the medical supply field and you'd be shocked to hear the kinds of items people ask us for to send to relatives in Cuba. Just 'cause it's paid for doesn't mean the care is good.
I'd be willing to bet most free clinics here give better care.

Content aside;
  Michael Moore makes fictional documentaries. Doccu-Drama.
  Once again the detail is almost drowned by the creator.
  Is a documentary journalism or entertainment? If an attempt at pure journalism then these fail. The stunt scenes these all end with are scripted fiction. They weaken the argument in an attempt to pull at the heartstrings. If the reality can't do it on its own then there is a problem. In Sicko the image of the woman being dumped on the CCTV had more real impact than the Cuba stunt.
  If Michael Moore stayed with the fact, the real and avoided manufacturing pathos his documentaries would have more impact.
  Granted he may also have a smaller audience.

Quoted from The boy who could fly okay, I just got my dental bill in the mail, $636, had to wait a VERY long time to get in as well.  When I lived in Minnesota, I had a Dental Appointment, waited 3 weeks, and paid not a dime.  Micheal Moore says us Canadians never wait in line and don't pay a dime, I got the receipt to prove he is a lying cunt.

I'm starting think you don't like MM very much, Jordan.

But seriously, didn't Sicko only look at the medical system? I think medical and dental are separate issues. For example, here in Australia when you file for medical insurance you have hospital cover and then extras. Dental usually comes under extras.

It’s a bummer about the bill, though. I hope your teeth turned out alright, mate.

Yeah here in Denmark dental is separate too.

Personally, I just view Moore's work as entertaining works of fiction and nothing more.  I enjoy watching them, and they usually have a well-executed story arc and some good humour.

I don't see the point in bashing him endlessly.  If you know his films are one-sided propaganda (as, I might add, a huge percentage of documentaries, news casts, and politician's speeches are) then ignore them or enjoy them for what they are.