Quoted from Heretic Personally, I just view Moore's work as entertaining works of fiction and nothing more.  I enjoy watching them, and they usually have a well-executed story arc and some good humour. I don't see the point in bashing him endlessly.  If you know his films are one-sided propaganda (as, I might add, a huge percentage of documentaries, news casts, and politician's speeches are) then ignore them or enjoy them for what they are.

I follow you to some extent.

When, in Bowling for Colmbine moore interviews that gun nut and makes him take out his gun under his pillow, that's really entertaining cause that is a great character. There are many other examples of great characters being caught saying stupid things. That's entertaining.

I thought the white people who were hired to play black people in the extremely racist (but innovative) Birth of a Nation was hilarious as well.

However, I don't think there's anything entertaining in misrepresentation of facts, wrong numbers etc. There's nothing fun about being misled, being lied to about a serious political topic. Not when his films are taken seriously. Not when his films win an Oscar and the Palm D'or. That is NOT cool.

And that's why I'm bashing him endlessly.

Just saw Sicko tonight and I thought it was pretty good actually. Granted, Michael Moore - as always - overstates the message to get his point across. That's how he works - we all know that, but once you strip away the layers of bullshit his point is actually a very good one. Michael Moore's goal with all his movies (I won't call them documentaries) is to start a discussion, to get people involved, to make them question the authorities - as any citizen should.

His tecnique is to pick one or a couple of tragic stories and them generalize them. That may not be fair or even right but that's how you get a message across. Kevin Spacey said it just right in 'Seven'; "When you want people's attention you don't tap them on the shoulder - you hit them with a sledgehammer." That is exactly what Michael Moore does.

And I respect him for it cos' he's gone up against some of the biggest power brokers in the US; the right wing'ers, the bible holders, the government, Big Oil, Big Insurance etc. And these are all factions that need a counterweight. Their influence is way too big.

Now, being from Europe, the whole medical insurance thing is alien to me. Sure, we probably pay a higher percentage of taxes over here but I do with a smile cos' I know that if my kids get sick or need an operation, their fate is not in the hands of an insurance company.

PS. I have no problems with insurance companies per se - I work for one (not medical insurance, though).

Quoted from sniper Just saw Sicko tonight and I thought it was pretty good actually. Granted, Michael Moore - as always - overstates the message to get his point across. That's how he works - we all know that, but once you strip away the layers of bullshit his point is actually a very good one. Michael Moore's goal with all his movies (I won't call them documentaries) is to start a discussion, to get people involved, to make them question the authorities - as any citizen should. His tecnique is to pick one or a couple of tragic stories and them generalize them. That may not be fair or even right but that's how you get a message across. Kevin Spacey said it just right in 'Seven'; "When you want people's attention you don't tap them on the shoulder - you hit them with a sledgehammer." That is exactly what Michael Moore does. And I respect him for it cos' he's gone up against some of the biggest power brokers in the US; the right wing'ers, the bible holders, the government, Big Oil, Big Insurance etc. And these are all factions that need a counterweight. Their influence is way too big. Now, being from Europe, the whole medical insurance thing is alien to me. Sure, we probably pay a higher percentage of taxes over here but I do with a smile cos' I know that if my kids get sick or need an operation, their fate is not in the hands of an insurance company. PS. I have no problems with insurance companies per se - I work for one (not medical insurance, though).

But doesn't he hurt the discussion rather than help it by basing it on fabricatiosn or lies?

That's like manking an anti-war documentary about a fictitious war. Why not make one about the ones that are actually going on, with actual facts, without overstating?

I just don't understand how we can shrug and go "that's just his style", when his movies are in fact treated as documentaries, and taken to be true. We don't watch Fox News and shrug, "that's just their style", we're outraged of their obvious manipulation.

I agree the powerbrokers need a counterweight, but does that mean any sorry slob will do? Does that mean lying is suddenly okay, because we agree with his bottomline? And though Moore always likes to picture himself as the average joe taking on the establishment, let's not forget that Miochael Moore is one of the most influential men in the U.S. today. He IS the establishment.

I mean, either propaganda is pernicious or it isn't. I just don't buy the whole "the end justifies the means" argument...

P.S.

Can you hook me up with a sweet deal on insurance?  

Quoted from Death Monkey I just don't understand how we can shrug and go "that's just his style", when his movies are in fact treated as documentaries, and taken to be true. We don't watch Fox News and shrug, "that's just their style", we're outraged of their obvious manipulation. I agree the powerbrokers need a counterweight, but does that mean any sorry slob will do? Does that mean lying is suddenly okay, because we agree with his bottomline? And though Moore always likes to picture himself as the average joe taking on the establishment, let's not forget that Miochael Moore is one of the most influential men in the U.S. today. He IS the establishment. I mean, either propaganda is pernicious or it isn't. I just don't buy the whole "the end justifies the means" argument...

The way I see it is that MM plays by the exact same rules as the guys on the other side of the aisle. They all embelish and bend the facts to get their point across. The other guys do it under the radar though and in a subtle way whereas MM shoves it down your throat in a mainstream manner.

And he's very good at that. As a filmmaker he's very effective.

Quoted from Death Monkey Can you hook me up with a sweet deal on insurance?

Sure thing, but you have to own a plane or a helicopter  

Quoted from sniper The way I see it is that MM plays by the exact same rules as the guys on the other side of the aisle. They all embelish and bend the facts to get their point across. The other guys do it under the radar though and in a subtle way whereas MM shoves it down your throat in a mainstream manner. And he's very good at that. As a filmmaker he's very effective.

You think Fox News does it under the radar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAP4T94ZVeo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHuzOdY8QsA

Notice the newsblob: "HAVE DEMOCRATS FOGOTTEN THE LESSONS OF 9/11?"

Quoted Text Sure thing, but you have to own a plane or a helicopter

I'll get right on building one!