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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Reviews    Movie, Television and DVD Reviews  ›  The Dark Knight Moderators: Nixon
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  Author    The Dark Knight  (currently 5273 views)
Death Monkey
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 5:58pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Takeshi
Ah, the irony. I flame someone with a Simpsons reference and then get flamed by one myself. Stupid poetic justice.  





Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays, please eliminate two.

P.S. I'm not a crackpot.


But for the record I honestly don't think the reviewer you're talking about has seen the entire film. It sounds like he's reviewing based off someone else's summary.

First off, the Joker isn't mentally incapacitated. He understands the consequences of his actions. In fact in his very first scene he clearly states "I'm not crazy. I'm not."
And his actions backs this up. He's not insane, he's just a man without any scruples, without any rules and with a twisted sense of humor. But a lunatic, as in being psychotic? Nope.

And the thing about Heath Ledger for me is this: When they first cast him I thought "No! Bring in Sam Rockwell, Paul Bettany, hell even Cillian Murphy before he became the scarecrow" but my position is now that they should never bring back the Joker in Nolan's franchise as played by someone else, because it is impossible to top or imtate what Ledger did. Just like no one else could've been Daniel Plainview the way Daniel Day Lewis was, no one can be the joker like Ledger. It is an astounding, awe-inspiring performance.

Other actors could've done really cool things with it, but no one could've done what he did. His mannerisms, gestures, his walk, his voice, his friggin intonation. He created an incredibly volumous character from something that, on the page, actually isn't that amazing. Every line is elevated to the power of 10.


"The Flux capacitor. It's what makes time travel possible."

The Mute (short)
The Pool (short)
Tall Tales (short)
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Takeshi
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 6:49pm Report to Moderator
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Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

I only posted what that radio dude said because it was so contrary to what I've heard everyone else say about it. I guess I just wanted to put it out there to see what y'all thought about his comments. I'll be off to see it myself next week and I'll add my two cents worth then.

  

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Takeshi  -  July 31st, 2008, 7:43pm
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Soap Hands
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 8:59pm Report to Moderator
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Hey,

I don't want to rehash in full what everyone else has been saying so I'll just say I loved it, Ledger is God, and best comic book movie ever!


Quoted from screenplay_novice
I also feel that Mask Of The Phantasm was better than all of the Batman films!


I also loved this movie and the series , so you are not alone. I'd place it third best though.


Quoted from screenplay_novice
The Joker was written the way the character originally was in the comics, a complete homicidal maniac!


I keep hearing people say this but I don't get it. I haven't read all the early stuff but I have read the Joker's first appearance.  The basics are there, guy dressed like a clown, makes jokes, kills some people(but with poison injections, so it's pretty tame) but it's not at all the Joker that's in the Dark Knight. The Dark Knight Joker would give the first appearance Joker nightmares.

And btw, everybody that didn't absolutely love every single second of this movie is lying or a communist.  

sheepwalker
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Shelton
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 9:07pm Report to Moderator
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Isn't Eric Roberts in this?

http://ericrobertspopsit.ytmnd.com

Some people just won't get it, and that's alright by me.


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"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin
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Takeshi
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Soap Hands


And btw, everybody that didn't absolutely love every single second of this movie is lying or a communist.  

sheepwalker


Wow. I didn't know it was such a political movie.

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Soap Hands
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 9:38pm Report to Moderator
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Hey,


Quoted from Chris Reid
Wow. I didn't know it was such a political movie.


As this boards resident right winger, it was the most derogatory thing I could come up with.

But I do think there were a lot of political messages in the film. It might have been the most pro-bush movie to come out of Hollywood in years.


sheepwalker
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Takeshi
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 9:40pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Soap Hands

It might have been the most pro-bush movie to come out of Hollywood in years.


sheepwalker


And a porno too. Yikes.
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Soap Hands
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 9:50pm Report to Moderator
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Hey,


Quoted from Chris Reid


And a porno too. Yikes.


lols. Touche.

sheepwalker
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 10:47pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Death Monkey
haha yeah the Batman voice is kinda...jarring.

If it wasn't for the fact that this was obviously a mainstream film I would've wanted the film to go much darker in places.


I agree. This is another example of a film trying to have mass appeal and also to a younger audience.

The same was true with the Harry Potter Movies. If you've read the books, you know how dark it becomes, but the movies don't reflect this. And really, I think they made the right call because these did start out (book-wise) as for children.

I have a great deal of trouble with my writing because I keep trying (actually I don't always try, it often just happens) but my work keeps swinging back from comedy to dark stuff and it can work, but only if the writer prepares the reader for it.

That's been a major problem in a novel series I'm working one. Balancing these two elements is really hard.

The writer, can't start out all happy-dappy and lead the reader or audience to believe they are going to get one kind of tale and then change it. And of course, this is all part of the package and genre and rated scale that are important in the movie business.

Yes, if we know we're going to see a horror and we start out with the "normal life" scenes, the audience has already signed the contract and are entirely willing to play along. But we can't sneak this kind of thing in something that is wrapped in a different kind of packaging.

What I would like to see is a movie with Batman and Joker, going out to dinner together to discuss a very bad situation that they both are linked to psychologically. I don't know what-- but something. And during dinner, they discuss their lives, their disgusts, and they both discover they have a few things in common.

Now this is the kind of movie I would find fascinating to watch.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Shelton
Posted: July 31st, 2008, 11:40pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sandra Elstree.
What I would like to see is a movie with Batman and Joker, going out to dinner together to discuss a very bad situation that they both are linked to psychologically. I don't know what-- but something.


How bout they discuss Jack Napier's killing of Bruce Wayne's parents, as it happened in the first movie?  That meets all the parameters you're seeking.

Interesting idea, but why bring Batman and The Joker into the equation?  Doing something like that would probably get you stoned ( a different kind) in the fanboy community, not to mention that it would probably be incredibly boring.

You talked briefly on starting out a script "happy dappy" and then going darker.  Why worry about it?  That's what synopses and trailers are for.  If your script opens with a big musical number and a bunch of flamboyant, happy people dancing around, but then suddenly dives into a much darker place where people are murdered by having vacuum cleaners stuffed into horrible places, then so be it. Once it gets into the realm of viewing audiences, it's not your problem.  You've accomplished what you set out to do...sell a script that gets made into a movie.  Congratulations, and beware that suction.


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: August 1st, 2008, 12:22am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Shelton


You talked briefly on starting out a script "happy dappy" and then going darker.  Why worry about it?  That's what synopses and trailers are for.  If your script opens with a big musical number and a bunch of flamboyant, happy people dancing around, but then suddenly dives into a much darker place where people are murdered by having vacuum cleaners stuffed into horrible places, then so be it. Once it gets into the realm of viewing audiences, it's not your problem.  You've accomplished what you set out to do...sell a script that gets made into a movie.  Congratulations, and beware that suction.


I know what you are saying, but I'm having problems because in the script I wrote: I went Disney, and in the novel, I went Anne Rice, and in between both, I went (You know in Hellboy where the fish-guy and Hell Boy are having a beer and singing...) I went like that.

And I really need to develop a consistency within a piece. Even if it bounces-- still, I need to figure out how to weave in the bounces. And I need to determine whether I'm writing for wide audience appeal or an adult audience. I haven't figured that out yet and I'm very confused. I'm a little girl and then I'm a seductress and then I'm a nurturing woman with the desire to give everything to her man... and all these "thought forms" jumble inside to produce very erratic writing.

I mentioned this in another post.

We can get into "The Zone" in our writing, but crafting it into a serious piece of work is another story. Inspiration in "The Zone" is easy, but it's just a vapor and it's nothing like the craft that has been worked over the course of ten or twenty years.

If I can get my current "baby" off the ground in a couple of years time, I'll be happy.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: August 2nd, 2008, 8:57am Report to Moderator
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"I keep hearing people say this but I don't get it. I haven't read all the early stuff but I have read the Joker's first appearance.  The basics are there, guy dressed like a clown, makes jokes, kills some people(but with poison injections, so it's pretty tame) but it's not at all the Joker that's in the Dark Knight. The Dark Knight Joker would give the first appearance Joker nightmares. "


Batman as a whole is interesting because people's perception of him and his universe are kind of at odds with the reality.

The modern Batman comics are far darker in tone than the original comics. Many of the staunchest Batman fans do not even recognise the original comics as being "true" Batman stories. I'm sure that the original and rapidly aging fans probably think the same of the later comics.


Here's the rub: There's only really been two great Batman stories

1. The Killing joke, which was an origin story of the Joker and gives Joker the characteristics that we see in the latest film.

2. The Dark Knight . This is perhaps the best of the Batman stories but it presents serious problems for Producers in that it is the end of a franchise and not the beginning. Batman is in his 50's and comes back for one last time before disappearing into the ether.

There was talk at one point of Eastwood doing it, but you can't really make it from a Production point of view because it ends the franchise.

These two Graphic Novels are really the inspiration behind Nolan's latest film.

The thing with Superheroes is that they are re-invented all the time, under different authorship and do not really follow a tight chronology. So, the "real" versions of the characters are just those that people enjoy at that particular time.

Other companies (e.g LucasArts) are more protective over their IP,s and insist on consistent story lines that do not contradict each other, but Marvel and DC seem to allow people to do what they wish with their characters (to a degree). Hence you can have hugely important charcaters being killed off before they've even done a single one of the things that in the comic book Universe, they are famous for (E.g Two-Face in the latest film).

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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: August 2nd, 2008, 12:53pm Report to Moderator
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Sandra.

"What I would like to see is a movie with Batman and Joker, going out to dinner together to discuss a very bad situation that they both are linked to psychologically. I don't know what-- but something. And during dinner, they discuss their lives, their disgusts, and they both discover they have a few things in common.

Now this is the kind of movie I would find fascinating to watch."

There is a school of thought that Batman is gay and that he and the Joker are actually in love. Frank Miller himself, who revived Batman for the modern era, claimed that Batman was a "homophobic nightmare". It's suggested that Batmans homoerotic desires are what fuels his crime fighting and conversely what fuels the Joker's psychotic rage.

The thing is, both of them are aware of what they have in common and that's why their destinies are entwined (something I thought the movie got across quite well, at least from the Joker's side). You can read into the fact that Batman will never kill the Joker despite the mayhem he causes and the lives he takes and the fact that the Joker clearly likes the Batman what you will.

Who else can understand Batman's psychotic side orther than the Joker and who else in the world is an equal for the Joker's twisted brilliance? They're soul mates.

The point being, if they were to ever sit and talk over dinner, they'd end up in bed together. : )

I'd imagine they'd have some pretty wild sex as well...
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dogglebe
Posted: August 3rd, 2008, 9:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
What I would like to see is a movie with Batman and Joker, going out to dinner together to discuss a very bad situation that they both are linked to psychologically. I don't know what-- but something. And during dinner, they discuss their lives, their disgusts, and they both discover they have a few things in common.


This, essentially is the beginning and the end of The Killing Joke.  Batman tries having a heart-to-heart with the Joker.


Phil
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: August 3rd, 2008, 11:42pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
Sandra.

"What I would like to see is a movie with Batman and Joker, going out to dinner together to discuss a very bad situation that they both are linked to psychologically. I don't know what-- but something. And during dinner, they discuss their lives, their disgusts, and they both discover they have a few things in common.

Now this is the kind of movie I would find fascinating to watch."

There is a school of thought that Batman is gay and that he and the Joker are actually in love. Frank Miller himself, who revived Batman for the modern era, claimed that Batman was a "homophobic nightmare". It's suggested that Batmans homoerotic desires are what fuels his crime fighting and conversely what fuels the Joker's psychotic rage.

The thing is, both of them are aware of what they have in common and that's why their destinies are entwined (something I thought the movie got across quite well, at least from the Joker's side). You can read into the fact that Batman will never kill the Joker despite the mayhem he causes and the lives he takes and the fact that the Joker clearly likes the Batman what you will.

Who else can understand Batman's psychotic side orther than the Joker and who else in the world is an equal for the Joker's twisted brilliance? They're soul mates.

The point being, if they were to ever sit and talk over dinner, they'd end up in bed together. : )

I'd imagine they'd have some pretty wild sex as well...


I can't argue this at all because I don't know what people are perceiving now or in the past.

I had never considered any sexual tendencies here at all-- but I don't think we should blame The Joker or Batman if sexuality is the culprit to all the madness. Maybe we should blame Freud.

Serioulsy though, these kinds of questions always seem to come up in stories. Like the revelation from the Potter world that Dumbledore sways a little towards the happy side. Well, no matter... I can't change my feelings for Dumbledore. I love him as much as Snape.

In Anne Rice's Lasher, we have the sophisticated, and muted, Ancient Evelyn who remembers her encounters with the lovely uninhibited, Stella. Here too, we travel into a sexual landscape without the typical topography.

It's really strange though to read about such a possibility within comic hero lore. I guess I've just been too sheltered.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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