WOW...finally saw this film.  I'm shocked there isn't a thread already...how could that be?

If you haven't seen the film yet, and have any interest in seeing it, you should probably stay away from this thread, although I will throw up some SPOILER warnings.  IMO, this is exactly the kind of flick you want to see knowing as little about as possible.  Although I've been aware of it for quite some time, I never really did any research on it, so other than being ultra violent and revenge based, I knew nothing of what I was in store for.

SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS

I have mixed feelings regarding Martyrs as entertainment.  As a movie, I'd say it's extremely strong and well done.  But entertainment?  I just don't know.  It was actually a chore to sit through for me, and as most of you know, I love horror, I love graphic violence, and I'm not even against the torture porn genre.

BUT this thing is BRUTAL, RELENTLESS, shockingly BLEAK, UNFLINCHING in everything it depicts.  It's also done in a very, very serious way, meaning none of the violence comes off as cartoonish.  There is no humor here whatsoever (well, maybe a little fun with a dead mouse, but that's it).  There are no laughs.  Nothing and literally no one is sacred.  No punches are pulled, and that's obvious once things get going.

It's one of those movies where throughout the run-time, I was literally asking myself, "What the Hell is going to happen next?  Where is this thing going?"  To say it follows its own beat, is putting it too simply.

At about the 1 hour mark, things shift dramatically and go somewhere I probably never want to be again.  The violence is just downright brutal in every way, and I'm not referring to limbs being sliced and diced, or buckets of blood geysers.  It's just intense stuff...hand to face violence in the most brutal way possible.

And then it continually repeats itself...over...and over...and...over,  FADE OUT then FADE BACK IN to the exact same scene, being played out day after day.  It's so ugly I was actually feeling uncomfortable watching it.  So bleak, so hopeless, so uncaring and unsympathetic to anyone and everyone.

And then, once again, we jump into the wildest twist yet, and into our finale, which should come as a surprise/shock to everyone watching for the first time.  Just downright crazy shit here.

It's the ending...or overall meaning of the film that many talk about.  It gives a meaning to everything that transpired...a reason for every character's action and behavior.  It's BIG...it's a revelation, so to speak.  But does it really make much sense?  I don't know...I'm still not sure.

And how about the final final ending?  A classic ambiguous last scene that has fans and critics divided over.  What were those last unheard words?  There are obviously a couple schools of thought, and I'm not sure what i really think either.  Actually, I'm not sure I even care to think about what was said...and why.

So...I'm thrilled I finally got to see this.  I've been waiting for years, and it was definitely worth the wait.  But is it something I'd ever sit through again?  No...no way.  Too brutal (even for me). Too bleak.  Too hopeless.  Too uncomfortable.  I need a shower...actually, I need to soak in a tub for a few days to get this feeling off me.

I actually had some of the worst nightmares I can remember having last night.  Funny thing is that I don't have any memory of what was going on, only that I was horrified to the point where I actually woke up screaming several different times.  That's never happened to me before.

Martyrs is a must see for for anyone who considers themselves a horror fan, a movie lover, or movie student.  It's powerful shit...kind of like a bad buzz from a good drug.

Enjoy!

Quoted from JC Cleveland I'm shocked there isn't a thread already...how could that be?

I could not find one either, Jeff, though I know there has been discussion of this film.  It is a film deserving of discussion.

Perhaps I am thinking of the "rumor" thread about the utterly unnecessary American remake.

Anyway -- I renamed your thread, as I am sure some of our horror fans will join in -- and while I do not always agree with you, I do agree that a viewer should take this film cold.

I really like this film (mostly), though I can count on one hand the number of people I would recommend it to -- and even though I ended up thinking where they took this story was ultimately kind of silly, I really respected them for having the balls to try, you know?

Films do not dig much deeper than this one.  I will disagree with anyone who calls this exploitation.  I feel this film was honestly trying to say something different -- and how well they succeeded will be up to each viewer.  I cannot imagine more polarizing material.

As for the ambiguous ending -- and those final words -- it is one of the rare instances where I did not feel ripped off by such a device.  

Was the old lady distraught at what she heard, or desperate to go somewhere?

No matter what those words were revealed to be, you would be disappointed.  Better that they remain unheard, for sure.

There is a thread bemoaning the planned Hollywood remake in the rumours section, a few of us have waxed lyrical about it over there.

I'm delighted you love this, Jeff. I was actually going to PM you and ask if you had seen it thinking it would be your thing...and if you had seen it and hated it...I was losing all hope in you

Thankfully you didn't, bravo!

Superb film.

Col, in no way can I say I loved it.  For what it is, it's brilliant.  But for entertainment...I don't know.  It's a tough flick to love.  Kind of like being married to a stripper...there are pros and cons, and much tough love, I'm sure.

Bert, I agree with you completely in everything you said.  I'm all for ambiguous endings and this one is one of those that just works anyway you look at it, whatever your POV is on what was said and what it meant.

Glad you liked it, Jeff... or rather didn't hate it. Whatever. Very happy to hear it has your seal of approval. It's no secret that it's one of my all time favorite films and among the top films I aspire to in my writing. Love it or hate it, it's a film that doesn't let you walk away from it. Those types of films always stand above the flavors of the month, no matter how flavorful those flavors may be.

Yep, totally agree, James.  This movie stays with you, makes you think, makes you cringe, Hell gives me nightmares!

I've actually been thinking about it all day, and have been comparing ti to the Hostel films in my mind.  Now, don't take this the wrong way, but in terms of entertainment and mainstream horror (semi-mainstream, that is), IMO, Martyrs does not hold a candle to the Hostel lot.  But I think that's completely the way this writer/director wanted it to be, and I do commend him for that.  The big difference in the films is the level of violence and torture, as well as the overall feeling.

In the Hostel films, we have clear antags and protags.  The antags are really nasty and the protags are (IMO, at least) normal, everyday, good natured people, who get into a bad situation.

Not so in Martyrs..not even close.  The protags here are tough to route for, IMO, but alot of that is based on how horrendous the situation is and the way they look (bloody, bruised mess most of the time).  They're almost not even human (especially at the end!).

The other big difference is that in the Hostel films, the pain, torture, and violence is relatively short lived.  Sure, it's brutal and graphic, but it only goes on a few hours, tops, then they're either dead or escaping.  In Martyrs, there is little hope of escape, and no hope of a quick death.  The pain and suffering goes on and on, and as time goes by, things get progressively worse.  Just downright bleak is the best way to put it.

Something everyone should experience if they can get through it.

I think this is one of the most powerful and effecting films I have ever seen.

What I loved most about it is how it touches upon a notion that I have long wanted explored in a movie: why do the religious have a monopoly on the ideas about God and the afterlife? Why are such things always perceived to be "supernatural", rather than a higher level of nature? I'm a hardcore, balls-to-the-wall atheist, I believe in absolutely nothing remotely paranormal or supernatural, and yet I would be more surprised if there is nothing after death than if there is something. But I believe it in a scientific manner. To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, the question of whether or not God exists is a scientific hypothesis like any other and, as oximoronic as it may sound, I think a lot of this film is about an atheist's perspective on such things. At least, that is what I took away from the film the most.

Of course all the best scenes in the movie are the ones between Lucie and Anna. I loved the juxtaposition of their personalities; how Lucie was completely destroyed by her experiences, was never able to overcome her fear and let herself go, and is ultimately destroyed by that fear, whereas Anna is able to release her fear and transcend herself in those final scenes. I think there's a very understated brilliance in the writing of this film; it's deceptively simple.  The world is pain, life is suffering, we are all victims, there is no hope for any of us. Bleak, brutal, uncompromising.

I fucking loved this film.

Quoted from Dreamscale Col, in no way can I say I loved it.  For what it is, it's brilliant.  But for entertainment...I don't know.

Apologies, I got slightly ahead of myself but saying "For what it is, it's brilliant" is good enough for me.

I know where you're coming from but personally, I don't see films as strictly entertainment. They are, or at least can be, a lot more than that. A film doesn't need to be entertaining for it it to be brilliant or for me to love it. In terms of what I'm looking for in a film (and depending on the type) entertainment will not always be top of the list. This was one such case.

The lack of clearly defined protags and antags is what makes it interesting. The ambiguity of who is wholly good or bad is intriguing, daring and above all, much closer to reality. It keeps the viewer alert, on their toes and second guessing rather than setting out the "he is bad" and "he is good" stall in the first five minutes, directing the audience in who to get behind. We got too many of those spoon feeders already.

As for the meaning of Mademoiselle's last words...doesn't surprise me in the slightest as there's fu?k all after this life except a very very very long dreamless sleep and happy days for the worms [insert "IMHO" caveat here]

Oh Jeeze!!!  Looks like I'm in the minority here!  I thought this film was deplorable!!  I will give it the first 25-30 min, that was pretty sweet, when the girl takes out a whole family and then thinks a creature is after her, that I thought was really cool!  I had no idea what this movie was about or what was going to happen, some real sweet stuff there, but when that swat team showed up and took the girl hostage, boy oh boy did this go south for me.  First off these people's reason for doing what they're doing has got to be the silliest reason ever, a speck in an eye from a picture???  That's there reasoning.....sorry, too silly, then an hour and half of watching a girl being beaten up, not really entertainment.  I love gross out horror...a lot!!  I love the thing, the fly, but this didn't feel like a movie to me, just an exercise in how to beat the shit out of someone, but I know I'm the only one too feel this way, I think I;m turning too weak cuz I didn't even finish it, i got to when the girl was skinned and saw there was still 15 min left and I didn't want to look at here anymore....also I made the mistake of eating dinner while watching this....BAD MOVE on my part.  Anyways it seems I'm the only one who didn't care for this so who am I to judge  

I'd have to say this may be the movie I've liked the most recently that I didn't actually enjoy watching... if that makes sense. I can't think of anything else that's been released lately that has been so tough to watch but that has stuck with me more than this (but I'll be giving "Trash Humpers" by Harmony Korine a view later this week so who knows if that will change)
There's actually a great recent write up on Martyr's on the site av.club.com that is worth checking out and gives some solid insight on it.
Nate

I watched this at work today. I thought it was really boring quite frankly. It wasn't until 40 or so minutes in when it became at least a little bit interesting (when she discovered the basement). I appreciated that the reason for all the torture and degrading of the girls wasn't just some sadistic sex/pleasure thing. But I felt it was all just a torture thing. And it went on and on.... I can't say I didn't care for the characters. I did, but the girls were all the same. They looked the same way. Acted the same way, were the same age or so. Zero personality differencies. I kept thinking to myself that if this script was submitted to a reading service or to SS it would get slammed for all the girls sounding exactly the same and so on. And looking the same. Average looking in tank tops with long black hair covered in blood and screaming.

They're thinking about making a US remake????  Save the money and make something new. This one was not good enough to warrant a remake.