For me the animal rights stuff was not something that I was thinking about, because there is so much going on.

Just saw it.

Every interesting idea and story possibility that JJ Abrams' movie laid the ground work for Rian Johnson shat all over it and threw it in the garbage.

he resolved pretty much every idea in the most uninteresting fashion.

he literally cut the nuts off the story and wrote every angle into a corner.

what happens next? why do i care?

Animal rights?

You have the right to be farmed and eaten... or you can become extinct because there's no place in the world for you aside from on our dinner plates.

It's the vegetables I feel sorry for. Nobody ever considers them.

I'm going to cut down on my veg this Christmas. I'm pretty sure they're still alive before we steam or boil them. Vegetarians are savages!

Okay, okay,

I didn't want to be in the middle of the discussion here when not having seen that flick but what the hell is wrong here?

Nobody comments on the newest Star Wars movie… Is it really that bad as the shitstorm on youtube and co suggest?

Re Dustin yeah, thanks for investing in some entertainment value. However, I got, hopefully, interesting news for you. I still won't give Disney my money, no new news that is I know, but man I heard something that might get you interested since you think a lot about indoctrination of people, corporate democracies etc etc we exchanged here and there a bit and you show up for those topics…

This movie is described by hundreds of non-paid individual reviewers as being the biggest ideology feeding piece OF ALL those socio-political, anti-discrimination, ultra-feminism (wrong feminism imo), anti-masculine Caucasian (can I say so), pro-minority, animal rights, climate stuff agendas, everything you can imagine -> COMBINED. Man, I remember I always thought that you exaggerate a bit when highlighting your opinion on those things. Rhetorically you may do, from your message, definitely not. They are truly on propaganda, ideological and even in a nihilistic form. And this movie seems to be the premium product.

People, honestly, we should talk about that as scriptwriters and storytellers.

(added background: I myself have no group. I'm an anti-fascist although no socialist at all and having none of the left wing economical notion either, I adore women's ability and would say they can handle earth's problems in many (most) times much better than those old men who rule us, 100%. People who know me here might understand me as a libertarian, somehow positioned in "European" liberalism (<- big difference to American liberalism), rightfully they do. Correct. For our times that's what I sign in and know not better.)

Quoted from PrussianMosby Nobody comments on the newest Star Wars movie… Is it really that bad as the shitstorm on youtube and co suggest?

No, it's not bad at all -- though Rogue One was truly a pleasant surprise and a superior film.  That one is highly recommended for fans who had doubts.

This film does some astonishing things with Luke's character and, to me, his arc is quite satisfying.  He is the primary reason to see the film.

Yes, Rey is a bit of a Mary Sue, and Kylo is still a K-Mart Vader wannabe with little menace. There is a silly "Casino" story-line that really goes nowhere.  del Toro is so wasted.  And Porgs -- I can take 'em or leave 'em.

It is almost too easy for fans to trash a Star Wars film, letting the things they do not like undermine the whole enterprise.  Outside of Rouge One, this is the film I've enjoyed most since the original trilogy.

Quoted from bert No, it's not bad at all -- though Rogue One was truly a pleasant surprise and a superior film.  That one is highly recommended for fans who had doubts. This film does some astonishing things with Luke's character and, to me, his arc is quite satisfying.  He is the primary reason to see the film. Yes, Rey is a bit of a Mary Sue, and Kylo is still a K-Mart Vader wannabe with little menace. There is a silly "Casino" story-line that really goes nowhere.  del Toro is so wasted.  And Porgs -- I can take 'em or leave 'em. It is almost too easy for fans to trash a Star Wars film, letting the things they do not like undermine the whole enterprise.  Outside of Rouge One, this is the film I've enjoyed most since the original trilogy.

Interesting!!! happy to get some information from the simply scripts people while I realize Star Wars was never a really big thing on this board someway.

First I thought you're full on sarcasm since you list so many negative things.

Kmart Vader, hah… this guy was so underdeveloped in TFA

So, if I get you right this is more of a standalone flick.

That they have problems with the plot was revealed in VII I think, whatever, there may be some true approach of entertainment around Luke, bad or good, at least they tried in that area.

I think my horror vision is that I don't like it and all those points I made about their political agenda are the sauce they dropped from above. Perhaps I could take a notepad with me, and when stuff goes a certain direction I make it a social studies lesson.

Whatever keep it coming if you like, I already got all those spoilers and people tearing it apart, time to get into what people enjoy from their pov.

Quoted from PrussianMosby I think my horror vision is that I don't like it and all those points I made about their political agenda are the sauce they dropped from above.

I think it is more along the lines of any "epic" film with a broad scope -- you are likely to find whatever it is you are looking for.  If your thing is animal rights, sure, you can probably find something there to talk about.

Most of the political takes that I've seen point out that the evil-doers are primarily white males, while all of the "good" characters are female or people of color.  There may even be something to that, but I don't look to entertainment for my politics these days.  Things are dark enough already, thank you.

Quoted from bert I think it is more along the lines of any "epic" film with a broad scope -- you are likely to find whatever it is you are looking for.  If your thing is animal rights, sure, you can probably find something there to talk about. Most of the political takes that I've seen point out that the evil-doers are primarily white males, while all of the "good" characters are female or people of color.  There may even be something to that, but I don't look to entertainment for my politics these days.  Things are dark enough already, thank you.

Of course there's something to that, even a lot imo. Otherwise there wouldn't be counter movements like black lives matter or what happened at G20 in Hamburg, the occupy stuff at Wall Street and so on. To me, all of them positive things. When you go that route in a movie and want to mirror some zeitgeist, zeitgeist put in context with humanism, then translate it intelligent and real. When it's superficial then I got my problems, and most critique on those points were about the empty way of delivery, like: we need to obviously trigger that, then that. I mean, what if you as an audience member already internalized all those things for yourself, then what does it make with you other than shaking the head and feel ashamed for them, their stupid methods?

And to me there are only two purposes left then: You want to convince bad people to change. Or/And secondly, what I think is main reason - you want to educate children (money involved here).

But man, if done correct, Star Wars is actually with its main genre drama and subgenre SF (space opera) the perfect ground to speak for a better world.

Re an epic film: Interstellar is good. And look how they took the boxes; strong female characters througout, devastated earth realistically shown etc… Titanic same, let's take the poorest guy and put him with the richest girl—we need to cross the Atlantic in best time so we get into the newspapers, fuck, not enough lifeboats…

I like your thinking here, very interesting to read, so go on if you like and have a good celebration

Storywise, I'd ask:

Is it an honest movie?

Is it a more coherent movie than TFA; because that was so driven by coincidence?

I really wanna rant about everything wrong with this film but I’m trying to ration my bitter rants. It’s a new year. So, instead I’ll say all the positive things I liked.

SPOILERS

I liked that line about Luke still stuck looking to the horizon and not what’s right in front of his face. And the revelation that his failures give him that much more to teach people about his own mistakes.

I liked that last moment in the hut between Rey and Kylo where they really bond. Both adrift with teachers incapable of offering the guidance they need.

I liked when that Porg got murdered and spit-roasted.

My only real issue with the film is

SPOILERS

They really didn't have to kill him. Great death scene, but was unnecessary.  I can't believe the powers that be agreed to it, especially with Carrie Fisher gone. It could have easily been re-filmed.

I felt that Luke Skywalker's adventures on this plain should have continued.

Late to the party.

My biggest gripe, and there are many, is the story structure is a complete circle. The movie ends in near exactly the same spot as it begins, which is just poor screenwriting imo.