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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Script Club XIII Cabin In The Woods Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    Script Club XIII Cabin In The Woods  (currently 9512 views)
Grandma Bear
Posted: April 29th, 2010, 8:19pm Report to Moderator
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At least three people have shown interest in another SC so here we go.

This time its a horror, Cabin In The Woods by Joss Whedon.

If you'd like to participate please pm "me" with your e-mail address and I'll send it on over.

As per our previous procedures, a mod will lock this thread in order to give everyone time to read and digest the script before we start the discussions.

Come join people. There's always stuff to learn by dissecting a pro script.  


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Shelton
Posted: May 2nd, 2010, 8:07pm Report to Moderator
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Unlocked by request.


Shelton's IMDb Profile

"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin
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dresseme
Posted: May 2nd, 2010, 8:50pm Report to Moderator
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**SPOILERS**

Here's the infamous Script Shadow's take on Cabin in the Woods:

http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2009/03/cabin-in-woods.html

I'll post my critique of the script a little later.  I need to give it another read.
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jwent6688
Posted: May 2nd, 2010, 9:21pm Report to Moderator
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Purge.


Purge button.


Hello, I'm sargent wtf... And if I was to build an underground contraption to harbor all the nasty ghouls and goblins we could think of, I would certainly have a PURGE button to release them all when convenient...

Oof... Review coming tomorrow. After I purge my bowels...

Sargent wtf...


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Grandma Bear
Posted: May 2nd, 2010, 11:47pm Report to Moderator
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I've read half of it so far.

I like it.

Did I notice style? No. Does that mean the story was good enough to make me not care?

I have to say though that I was a bit disappointed about the zombies. However, I do like them better than some of the other choices.

...Yes, I do like it so far!


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Brian M
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 12:48am Report to Moderator
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I'm a MASSIVE fan of Joss Whedon. I watch everything he's involved in, even Dollhouse. I loved Firefly. Serenity is one of my favourite movies. I always watch the series two finale of Buffy at least once per year because I think that double episode borders on genius. In my opinion, he's that good.

WTF was that all about??? I honestly thought it was quite good until the last 15-20 pages, but the ending is the worst thing I've read in a long time. Like you would have a button to release every monster at once. The very last scene with the massive hand shooting out of the ground? Yeah right.

There were some good things throughout. I loved the dialogue, but Whedon's dialogue is always great (if a little overdone sometimes). I also liked Marty's character. When reading, I wanted him to survive the most so I was glad when we found out he was alive. The script was interesting at points. I liked the reality TV angle, the workers taking bets. Other things kept me thinking, like the invisible forcefield, which was a good thing.

The ending ruined it all. I get angry just thinking about it. Sacrifices to Gods under the earth? Please.

I will add more when I get home from work.

Brian
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dresseme
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 1:16am Report to Moderator
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There's no doubt it's a well written script, especially in regards to formatting.  The dialogue is good, as one would expect, and everything seems to move at a brisk enough pace.

My biggest problem with the piece is how incredibly (and annoyingly) meta it was.  Ok Joss, we get it...you've seen a lot of horror movies.  And we get it...all the people are carbon copies of everyone you've ever seen in a horror film.  And we get it, it takes place in A CABIN, one of the most clichéd places to set a horror film; thank you very much, Evil Dead 1 and 2.

But in the end, particularly after such a mind-fuck of an ending, I'm left to wonder, what's the point?  It's not funny enough to be considered a parody and it's not scary enough to be considered a horror film.  In the end, it's just an unholy mash-up which feels like two movies smashed together.  I can only imagine how this thing is going to play out on the big screen.

So yeah, the characters have good dialogue, it's formatted well, blah blah blah, but I ask again; what's the point?  To me it just seems like navel-gazing at its finest.  Personally, I don't really like being winked at every 5 seconds in a movie.   It's like watching a Michael Haneke film, if you're familiar with any of his work.  His films basically serve as a massive sociological experiment and usually end with a metaphorical middle finger to its audience.   The same basically can be said for Cabin in the Woods.  In the end, it almost feels like you've been pranked.  And because of the "3-D" aspect of the film that's being added, you can be guaranteed Whedon will be laughing all the way to the bank.
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stevie
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 2:14am Report to Moderator
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My thoughts are exactly yours, Matt!

I knew nothing of this project beforehand so went in 'fresh'. the formatting is good though when your gonna be the director of your own script, I guess you can have it as you want it.
Yeah, it is almost a mixture of the 'Scream ' movies, taking the piss of all the cliched horror stuff. But its intermingled with violence, which, however, fails ultimately cos you don't really care about the characters, as there's too much parody at times.
It was good that there were only 5 'victims' instead of the usual ten or twelve anonymous peole dying in the films being sent up.
Even the crew in the control room were sort of funny, so whedon's idea got a bit muddled.
I dunno...the ending was ok - there were earlier hints to the lab guys fighting aagainst some type of world threatening evil. But the mix of comedy and gore jarred.
i couldn't see this doing any good at the box office, but, well, as we all know, these days any kind of shit can make it...
Cheers stevie

Ps - it was a very fast read, I'll give it that.     The title sucks though.

I can't wait to see what Jeff thought of it!!

I still think 'Killing On Carnival Row' rocked!!!



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jwent6688
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 3:51am Report to Moderator
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Alright, in all seriousness, he took the Fab 5, not the Beatles Stevie; the cliche Jock, prissy bitch, nerd, stoner, and virgin and wrote them better then anyone else has IMO. They were fun to watch.

I have to admit, I actually thought this was the script for "Cabin Fever" for a moment. Was waiting for an inbread, retarded boy to jump off the gas station porch yelling "pancakes!" to bite one of them in the hand.

He certainly knows his way around some comedy too. I drank a good deal of water the day I read this and almost pissed myself when the gas station attendent was on speaker phone.


That said, I find it hard these people would be having so much fun watching these people die as a sacrifice. Betting on which monsters they choose... Gotta admit, that part did give me some creeps. When she read the diary and they started coming out of the ground.

Then it fell flat. The action wasn't impressive. The giant force field was ridiculous.

The ending... As I said above, one fucking button to release all monsters!!!! From a guy whose heart is imbedded in sci-fi, I expect better then that.

Then it was as if they knew humanity would end, and let it happen. She should have killed him.

And the formula to please the beasts... The virgin must die last or optional. Why??? Why the fuck would they care??? They're sleeping underground for centuries., Did they have these complex control rooms hundreds of years ago to keep them slumbering??? I think not.

The writing was good. Characters very discernable. He's very talented. I can see why this script hasn't been made though. And probably never will. It has a couple mild chills, and after that it's just a deranged comedy.

I stand corrected!!! I didn't do research, but am I to believe this pile-o-shit is in production Dressel???? Oof, and you know, we'll all go pay $12 to watch this disaster in 3D.

Hopefully this is an early draft. He needs to crank up the horror factor for this to be fun IMO. Give me some great kills along with the comedy and I will forgive.

After research...

They're obviously pitcing this as a comedy... The poster is up on IMDB. Three versions... One reads; "If you hear a strange noise outside... Have sex" The other;"If an old man warns you not to go there... Make fun of him" and my fave... "If something Is chasing you... Split up"

Welp, fuckin A. Wouldn't have gave this a snowflakes chance in hell if it was written by one of us... I guess we'll all be buying a ticket february of 2011.








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jwent6688  -  May 3rd, 2010, 4:47am
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James McClung
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I liked the first half of the script, didn't care for the second and hated the ending.

Didn't care about the characters. Slasher archetypes never interest me. I didn't hate them though. The dialogue was extremely well written. The jokes weren't funny, per se, but they were witty and the bit with Jules and the wolf's head was amusing, albeit not as much as I expect the writers thought it was. It seemed like something that would come out of a real truth-or-dare. I felt like the characters related to each other in a fairly realistic and even interesting manner. I also appreciated the fact that the "stoner" was a genuine supporting character and not just comic relief. But I wasn't rooting for anyone. I guess they were written just well enough for me not to want them to die and to take interest in their exploits.

I thought the idea of a company staging a horror movie with real people was brilliant. I was constantly hanging on to find out why exactly they were doing this. I loved the competition with Japan and the variations between the two. I loved how laid back everyone was. I loved the bets and the party. It felt like a real job for these guys. The two dudes were douche-bags and the jokes were so-so. Sometimes they zinged. Other times they fell flat. But overall, I did enjoy watching them do what they do and I think the actors they got to play them will do wonders with the script.

Up to a point, there was a perfect balance between being self-aware and being contained in the movie world. In fact, I wouldn't say it got self-aware until the second half. The first, there didn't seem to be any nods to the camera or any bullshit like that. Rather the characters existed with knowledge of the archetypes they were embodying.

The zombies were pretty cool. I liked the family element. I feel like zombies have descended have just about left the horror genre and found a new home in post-apocalyptic sci-fi. This one seemed to bring them back to horror and with some variation to them.

I liked the bit with the car going underwater but once Curt pulled out the bike, the story started going down hill. Basically became a dumb action movie. I liked the "Costco of death" but once the monsters all got mixed together, it just felt like too much. I kept thinking about the South Park Imagination Land trilogy and how over-the-top that was.

And then comes the ending... so all horror movies exist to appease some ancient evil gods... WTF! I mean WTF!!! So what did everyone do before the 80s, 70s... before movies? And why these gods even care? They're obviously uber-gargantuan and can take down the world any time they want? What's the tie in to all these stereotypes? Is it an overblown metaphor or just stupid?

I don't feel like the ending ruined the story but it certainly squandered a golden opportunity to make something genuine and fresh. Instead, they turned it into one big joke? For fuck's sake, Joss! I guess it wasn't enough for you to ruin vampires. You just had to try your hand at horror movies as well. And you know what? You were doing great up until now. So why this?

The think that pissed me off the most about the ending was Marty's line about "something else taking a shot" after humans. I guess these guys thought they could make a joke and be super edgy, nihilistic and misanthropic at the same time...

First of all, you can't make Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Lost and get to be nihilistic and misanthropic. Sorry... and yes I know Drew Goddard is only a writer on Lost. Second, you can't be cutesy.

I see Michael Haneke's Funny Games has been brought up, which is good. But whether or not you hated that film, you can at least give it that the ending had conviction. It basically spit in the face of its audience. These guys seem too timid to do that but at the same time, there's an air of faux edginess. Wow! You guys ended the world because morality tales disguised as mindless sex and violence are lame... but it's in 3D!!! It's all in good fun, right?!

Leave the hateful stuff to Haneke and Von Trier. They don't have TV shows that are adored by hordes of American teenagers. Even so, John Carpenter pulled off this type of ending in both his Snake Plisskin flicks and he did it without the negativity and without the cutesiness. You don't have to be super-existentialist to do it.

...

So what did I think overall? Well, I'm not a Joss Wheedon fan and I don't watch Lost so I have to say there was more good here than bad. I thought the concept, sans twist, was a stroke of genius and I was surprised at how good the writing was. The actual screenplay format broke all the rules but it was fun to read and extremely immersive. The whole thing had a lot going for it. In the end, it seemed like they just said... fuck it!

I think what disappointed me the most is that these guys don't seem to have any genuine affinity for the genre. It's all just a big joke. Maybe if they'd approached this with the intent to write a real movie and not just to cheat everyone, it could've been garnered a cult following or something. Guess not.


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James McClung
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Quoted from jwent6688
The ending... As I said above, one fucking button to release all monsters!!!! From a guy whose heart is imbedded in sci-fi, I expect better then that.


Good point. I can't imagine what good would come from having this button, what situation it might actually be appropriate to push it... But then, how would they get all the monsters into one place, huh?


Quoted from jwent6688
I guess we'll all be buying a ticket february of 2011.


Nope! I'm Netflixing the motherfucker.


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dresseme
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 10:27am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung

I see Michael Haneke's Funny Games has been brought up, which is good. But whether or not you hated that film, you can at least give it that the ending had conviction. It basically spit in the face of its audience. These guys seem too timid to do that but at the same time, there's an air of faux edginess. Wow! You guys ended the world because morality tales disguised as mindless sex and violence are lame... but it's in 3D!!! It's all in good fun, right?!


You know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the beginning (with the sudden musical sting and title card) is a nod to Haneke's Funny Games.  It's possible it's not, but if you're familiar with the film, you'll remember it starts in a similar way.  But even though I dislike Haneke's films, I at least give him credit for having a point.  Even if his point is to feel superior to his audience.

But I digress, because Haneke didn't write this film; Whedon did.  And Drew Goddard, who has been left out of this discussion up to this point (by myself included).  He's the co-writer on this and also is the director.  He was responsible for Cloverfield.
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dresseme
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 10:31am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jwent6688


They're obviously pitcing this as a comedy... The poster is up on IMDB. Three versions... One reads; "If you hear a strange noise outside... Have sex" The other;"If an old man warns you not to go there... Make fun of him" and my fave... "If something Is chasing you... Split up"



I think they're doing that to have a tongue-in-cheek approach to the whole thing, not to pitch it as a straight-forward comedy.  After all, look at the website:

http://thecabininthewoodsmovie.com/

But who knows, like I said, it might just all be to be a type of practical joke on the audience.  Make it look as much like a horror film as possible and then hit them with something completely different.  I actually can't wait to see how people respond to this film.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 10:33am Report to Moderator
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Initial thoughts: Hard to say. I thought it was just about OK. Some of it felt like it had been written by a student over a weekend, some of it was quite good.

It's basically Evil Dead with a weird and completely pointless "extra" bit tagged on.

The characters were dull, with the exception of Marty. None of the others stood out and they were all forgettable.

The action was well-paced, but pretty dull. With all the potential choices of monster...they went for the dullest possible. They were OK as it was but that's always the danger with these things...when you try and parody something, the majority of the time all you do is copy it...so it's as unoriginal as the subject you're parodying, but with an extra air of obnoxious arrogance.

There were a couple of interesting scenes...just a couple. The typical redneck weirdo garage attendant was good and he actually made me laugh...the only time in the script that I did so.

And the wolfshead scene...that was pretty good.

The whole thing with the mermen was quite fun as well...although they didn't do much. Would have much preferred them to have been at the core of the story.

Other than that it was pretty mediocre.

The cabin horror is a staple of low-budget filmmakers...new careers are always made when someone finds a fresh twist. There's something about a successful writer taking a pop at such a genre that felt a bit "off". I can't really explain that any better but it was just a vague feeling I had.


I think the script will probably make a slightly better film. If it's filmed with enough vitality it should make a reasonably fun picture. All the creatures running about should look fun enough in 3D.

Not much else to say. I think with the amount of marketing that they seem to be putting into this and the teen audience it's set at it should do reasonably well at the Box Office. It's certainly not  guaranteed hit...but it could do well enough, I suppose.
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Mr.Z
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 10:44am Report to Moderator
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I like the main concept a lot. Overall it was a fun read, but I must say the ending ruined it for me.

I can buy the presence of one particular monster in a horror movie. But to throw every kind of monster there is in the mix (plus the ridiculous giant hand) is too much.

The conflict's resolution is the equivalent of emptying your fridge to throw everything into the blender, and then drink the thing. The individual components may be tasty, but the mix will surely taste like goat $hit.

I think/hope that the ending will be changed before this hit the screens.


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Grandma Bear
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Last year I wrote the feature version of Dark Side Of Man. It has people being killed in horrible ways while people pay to watch it on their TVs. That's what I thought this was going to be. Some sort of horrible reality show. I think that would have been better than to have all this going on just to let sleeping Gods lie.

The force field reminded me of Stephen King's The Dome.

I didn't really care too much for the kids. I thought the workers were more fun. However, once it became clear that they wanted to celebrate their deaths, I sort of lost respect for them too and didn't care what happened to them.

Yes, this script is riddled with cliches so it must be a parody.

I groaned at the zombies and hated the ending, but other than that, I thought it was a pretty good read.


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James McClung
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Quoted from dresseme
You know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the beginning (with the sudden musical sting and title card) is a nod to Haneke's Funny Games.  It's possible it's not, but if you're familiar with the film, you'll remember it starts in a similar way.  But even though I dislike Haneke's films, I at least give him credit for having a point.  Even if his point is to feel superior to his audience.


I doubt it. Whedon/Goddard and Haneke seem to be on totally opposite ends of the spectrum. To the point that I doubt either are aware of the other's existence. Still, both had boring opening scenes interrupted by abrupt title cards. Only Haneke had a sweet John Zorn track kicking his off.


Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
The characters were dull, with the exception of Marty. None of the others stood out and they were all forgettable.


I thought Marty was pretty dull as well. I appreciated that he had a role in the script outside of getting blazed but his whole pseudo-intellectual schtick didn't interest me. Like the other characters, he felt like Whedon's interpretation of a horror cliche. It's better than your usual fair but still cliche. Also, I wonder how many of these writer/directors actually smoke pot or have done so in their lifetime. These types of characters never seem to ring true in the movies.


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Brian M
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Quoted from James McClung

I liked the "Costco of death" but once the monsters all got mixed together, it just felt like too much. I kept thinking about the South Park Imagination Land trilogy and how over-the-top that was.


I thought those South Park episodes too. I also remembered the series finale of Angel when all the monsters and demons were released onto Earth at the same time. I'm sure Whedon wrote and directed that episode. Very similar. Maybe he has a thing for hundreds of monsters on the screen at the same time.

I looked up the casting for the movie... not very impressive. Marty will be played by the geek Topher from Dollhouse. Doubt that will work, but we'll see.
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 5:53pm Report to Moderator
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OK people, sorry for getting to the dance late, but I'm here now. I read the script today.  I've got alot to say, but I don't want to shoot my wad right out of the gate, in terms of detail.  I hope we have a long discussion here.

In a nutshell, what did I think of this?  Complete fucking CRAP! Absolutely horrendous in every single way possible, and on every single level.  Shockingly, jaw-droppingly terrible.  I honestly believe that this is a joke, fake-leaked by someone having some fun with people like us...at least I hope so.

The writing, IMO, was abysmal.  Looked to me like it was either written by someone who decided to write a screenplay for the first time, or by someone trying to write as poorly as possible...kind of like "The Cabin" sequels.

"We see...", "We hear...", "The camera...", etc. Shocking!

The pathetic asides everywhere.  Sickening!

The HUGE blocks of text throughout.  Pitiful!

The cliches everywhere.  Pathetic!

The incomplete Slugs, grammar errors, awkward phrasing, incorrect (back and forth) use of names in Dialogue Boxes, oh, I could go on...

The story?  C'mon, man!  WTF?  Just downright embarrassing!  I don't even like the concept itself, but the ridiculous over the topness was just...well...it just SUCKED ASS!

The tone?  Hmmm...is it comedy?  Is it horror?  Or does it just suck?  It just sucks!

Again, I'd place good money (if I had some) on this turning out to be a big prank or scam on people who "find" unreleased scripts on the net and distribute them.  It's got to be.  If it's not, I'm almost speechless.

Just think what the reviews would look like if this was posted in here by an author we weren't familiar with. Would you think that the writer knew what he was doing?  Would you say it was well written?  Well conceived?  I sure hope not.

The ending?  WOW...what a fucking joke!  C'mon!

AS Joss obviously likes to say..."Let's get the party started!"
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dresseme
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Quoted from Dreamscale
  I hope we have a long discussion here.


That will really only happen if someone steps up and defends this puppy.  Particularly, the ending.  Maybe a good discussion would be, how should it have ended?  After all, a lot of people seem to like it up to the end, so the question is: what would they have wanted in an ending?


Quoted from Dreamscale
I honestly believe that this is a joke, fake-leaked by someone having some fun with people like us...at least I hope so.


Nope. 100% real.  Although I did think so too the first time I read it.


Quoted from Dreamscale
The cliches everywhere.  Pathetic!


The cliches, one could argue, were there to be cliche.  To play off the genre.  I'm in the group that says that it didn't really work.  I just felt like I was watching a particularly boring, run-of-the-mill horror film interspersed with some weird office scenes.
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stevie
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 6:16pm Report to Moderator
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While I agree with some of Jeff's comments, if Whedon did write this, well, he's gonna write in his own way,as he will be filming it. So he'll put in all the rough angles and stuff.
He's not gonna be worried about how anyone thinks it should be writtten, is he? I remember reading some of Inglorious Basterds and it was written the same way.

But I totally agree on the whole 'feel' of the script. It would work either as a straight out parody or straight out full on horror. At the moment, it's neither here nor there.
It doesn't really bother me as I wouldn't be seeing it anyway. But its sort of a shame as I loved 'Serenity'.



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Dreamscale
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 6:37pm Report to Moderator
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Matt, I can't really say how I think it should have ended, because it was so fucked up almost right out of the gate.

When they entered the basement, I had some hopes for it, but once the zombies (Zombies?  Fucking zombies?  Are you kidding me?) lumbered in, it was even further downhill, IMO.

On a different note, some people referenced Scream and similarities, etc.  I don't agree at all. Scream really wasn't a parody at all.  It obviously had its moments and intentionally made everyone aware that horror movies usually involve stupid characters doing stupid things, but it was serious for the most part.  None of this was serious, IMO, yet it involved all sorts of graphic violence, which just seemed so out of place.

I guess the best comparison would be the Evil Dead movies, but then again, those movies worked based on the Ash character, IMO...as well as some great camera work.  It was also a "new" concept, being that it was almost 30 years ago.
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stevie
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Sorry, i meant Scary Movie' not 'Scream'.



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Dreamscale
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 6:47pm Report to Moderator
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I think some people mentioned Scream earlier...
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dresseme
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 8:15pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
I think some people mentioned Scream earlier...


I think Scream is an apt comparison, far more than Scary Movie.  I would only compare it against Scream to say its inferior though.  Scream picked apart the slasher genre, but at the same time made a damn compelling story with engaging characters.  This does none of that.  It makes cookie-cutter characters only so it can go "Get how cliche they are?!?"  Cabin in the Woods basically spends its entire length begging you to like it.
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jwent6688
Posted: May 3rd, 2010, 8:16pm Report to Moderator
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I don't see any reference to Scream here...

I thought that the "Control Room" was inside the head of a horror writer. He had to please himself, his audience... With sacrifices.. Actually like that ending better then what transpires...

Fuck me, This whole things a mess...


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James McClung
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 3:28am Report to Moderator
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I think Scream is a fair comparison but certainly not a good one. Scream brought a lot of horror cliches to the forefront but only in dialogue and the killer's M.O. Other than that, it seemed to take place in a "real" world. The sequels got a little more self-aware what with the Stab movie-within-a-movie but overall, I think it's more satire than parody.

This one seemed to take place in the "real" world at first but still forced the characters to act out the cliches. By the end, it's a full blown parody and whatever the story had going for it, whether you think it's a little or a lot, becomes worthless.

In short, I think you can make references to genre conventions without imitating them. In this case, I think Scream did and this one didn't.

What I think the two have most in common is that they were both made by people who don't give a shit about the genre. When that's the case, there's only so much you can take from the story.


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 5:52am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dresseme


That will really only happen if someone steps up and defends this puppy.  Particularly, the ending.  Maybe a good discussion would be, how should it have ended?  After all, a lot of people seem to like it up to the end, so the question is: what would they have wanted in an ending?


Nope. 100% real.  Although I did think so too the first time I read it.



The cliches, one could argue, were there to be cliche.  To play off the genre.  I'm in the group that says that it didn't really work.  I just felt like I was watching a particularly boring, run-of-the-mill horror film interspersed with some weird office scenes.


I thought the ending was ridiculous and absurd...but at least it was its own ending. Without it the film is just a very poor mans Evil Dead or Dead Snow.

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James McClung
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 5:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
I thought the ending was ridiculous and absurd...but at least it was its own ending. Without it the film is just a very poor mans Evil Dead or Dead Snow.


Which ending are we talking here? The stupid action movie or the ancient evil gods? If they'd scrapped the evil gods, it would've just been stupid and not a complete fucking copout. If it'd ended as some evil horror movie production house getting what they deserve, it might not have been so bad. Maybe not so good either but I certainly wouldn't have the same animosity toward it as it is now.


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Andrew
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 6:39am Report to Moderator
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First off, could someone please send me the script. Thanks.

My following comments will undermine - in some eyes - my views. But still.

This is not a direct attempt to play devil's advocate, but it really has to be said, and is as much a general view as one geared towards this very thread.

There was a time when I feared saying the patently obvious to avoid being ostracised, but that time has long passed. This is not about being argumentative but highlighting some fairly obnoxious commentary on someone's work. So the guy made it and now deserves a pounding from a bunch of insecure amateurs? It reeks of tabloid 'build 'em up and knock 'em down'.

Where's the film theory or the reasoned arguments? Btw, I exclude Rick and Dressel who do not fall to such a limited scope, as well as some other reasonable reviews.

I get it, people will think I am an arrogant arsehole or worse for this 'calling out' thread - but it makes the comments no less valid. Reasonable people like our very own bert would delete such nonsense for a review of a SS'ers work.

Some of the comments here are nearing that of rabid dogs. There appears to be a bathing of lock-out whereby a 'group think' of screenwriting has taken hold - coupled with what Craig Flintstone (correctly in my opinion) termed as 'grandiose' behaviour. I imagine there will be a sense of obligatory 'who cares what he thinks' as people swarm in a sense of shallow superiority.

This guy is getting his work produced - the vast majority of people here are not. We can explain away this inconvenient fact on 'luck', or just calculate some basic factors: he has talent and is able to write with a market in mind.

So, why write this? Why be a prick to those just expressing their views? 'Cos some of the approaches to reviewing this work is of 'getcha' mentality, and this type of limited scope will forever corner people on the outside looking in.

Andrew


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James McClung
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 7:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Andrew
First off, could someone please send me the script. Thanks.


I won't say your comments aren't valid. They are. But if you'd actually read the script, you might understand where our indignation is coming from.


Quoted from Andrew
This guy is getting his work produced - the vast majority of people here are not. We can explain away this inconvenient fact on 'luck', or just calculate some basic factors: he has talent and is able to write with a market in mind.


This means absolute dick to me. Just because someone has success doesn't mean they have talent and frankly, I don't think it's hard to write with a market in mind.

As it happens, Whedon does have talent and has managed to garner a cult following, which is much harder than writing for a market. But to answer your question... yeah, this script deserves a beating. Of course, you'll have to read it to decide for yourself.

And in case you've forgotten... this is Script Club. We're supposed to discuss the script, which we are. Some of us are just a little more... colorful with our words.


Quoted from Andrew
So, why write this? Why be a prick to those just expressing their views? 'Cos some of the approaches to reviewing this work is of 'getcha' mentality, and this type of limited scope will forever corner people on the outside looking in.


I don't follow you. Could you clarify please?


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 10:10am Report to Moderator
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Interesting post Andrew...I dare say there might be some truth to it...and I don't exclude myself from that.

But what else can you do other than present honest opinions?

Films are completely subjective. Some people love them, some people hate them. We've disagreed over films in the past, I'm sure we will again.

I remember reading Cindy's post on here about the Script Club, she was saying that she wanted it to be a discussion looking at scripts and gleaming info. about what makes a successful script...what we can learn from these scripts that have been bought that are lacking from our own scripts. A very noble and professionally minded aim.

The problem is that the objective quality of a script (if there is such a thing) is almost irrelevant to success. There are films that win the Silver Bear at the Berlin festival, films considered the best of the best by film critics that appear in a handful of cinemas and are pulled after a week because no-one has gone to see them.

Then there are films that are criticallty panned, that I hear audiences saying how unutterably terrible they are (Iron Man 2, Spiderman 3, 2012 etc) that make an absolute fortune.

Is the best asset of a script its quality...or its marketablity?

I think what I'm trying to say is that you are right about being able to write for a market...that's really all there is to it. You write for an audience aged between 10 and 25. That's the demographic the big companies are looking at... 10-25.

Take a moment to think what that means for the type of films that the mainstream is looking for. Stuff that can be understood by children. You're writing films for people who have only just grown out of Winnie the Pooh.

So when I review 2012 and say it's like it's been written by a 12 year old...to a company trying to get as much money as possible from an audience..that's probably a good thing.

Now... it does sound arrogant and grandiose to dismiss a writers/filmmakers very successful work in such a way...but what's the alternative? Mediocrity sells.

What's that old saying about no-one ever went broke by underestimating the American audience? You can extrapolate that across the Western world.

The average person has an IQ of 100. You make a film geared just towards the average mind...half the population won't be able to understand it. Write it for people who have an IQ of 50...pretty much near-retarded or mentally handicapped and everyone can understand it...more chance of making money.

That sounds horrible, I know..but I think it's pretty close to the truth. The core goal of most big film companies is to make more money from their investments than they could by gambling on the stock exchange.

So...you write for an audience of 10-25 year olds. You pick high concept, high stakes stories, pick a well known genre...and then you network like hell...move to L.A, pitch your work, get to know eveyone in the field (there are only a handful of people whose responsibility it is to procure scripts) etc.

I've got far more constructive things to say...but I'll leave that till later.

Ultimately the goal of big companies is to get you in the cinema seat. Once you are there...what you think of the film only matters in the terms of word of mouth sales. If they can fill the cinemas quickly enough that doesn't even matter...they've already got their money.

Gimmicks, catch phrases, interesting posters, enough action to put together an interesting trailer etc etc these things are probably more important than how good the story is. Once you've handed over your money to the cashier...what difference does it make if the film is any good?

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James McClung
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
Is the best asset of a script its quality...or its marketablity?


It all depends on what you want to do with your writing? Me, I'm not David Lynch. I don't think anything I write is all that inaccessible and for the most part, I write in the horror/thriller genre which is such a huge market that it'd be a waste of time worrying about whether or not it will sell. So I concentrate on the quality.

I also think it's a waste of time worrying about marketability in general. I agree that mediocrity sells and that the average movie goer is retarded and that if you shot for the lowest common denominator, you might have a better chance in the long run. But I think it's more complicated than that. The industry is way too fickle and unpredictable to try and come up with the perfect formula to sell. It just doesn't work that way. Just because you read a ton of Hollywood screenwriting books doesn't mean you have a better chance of "making it."

And what is making it anyway? Hollywood? News flash! It's not the only fucking film industry out there. There's all sorts of ways in. It's not an easy business at any level, needless to say, but just because you can't make it to Hollywood doesn't mean you can't be successful in the industry. That's why the term "independent film" exists in the first place.

I think the most important thing is that you don't have to write a bad script to sell and you don't have to write an art house script to tell a good story. So I don't think it's all that simple. But personally, I think you'll get a lot further if you care about the work you write because that magic screenplay formula that's gonna make you a profit is probably going to elude you for a while.

...

Back to the script in question. I don't think it was written for the lowest common denominator. Joss Whedon already makes a ton of money and has a huge cult following. He doesn't have to worry about that bullshit. I think he and Goddard really wanted to tell this story. I just don't think they had the best intentions.


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bert
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 10:49am Report to Moderator
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I do not think anybody sets out to intentionally make a bad movie, anymore than somebody says, "I am going to write a script that totally sucks".

Sometimes it turns out that way, but everybody involved must have felt there was some merit to the project at the time.

The script in question -- I think Joss and his buddy were joking around with each other when they wrote this -- they knew it wasn't Chinatown -- and they probably thought what they had here was a pretty good draft.

And it is alright.  Flawed, for sure, but there are plenty of usable ideas there.

And I can tell you for a fact Joss does not give a flying fart about his formatting haha.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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grademan
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 11:18am Report to Moderator
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SPOILER: This horror script contains a few good scenes, cliches, plot holes, and an over the top ending.

I liked this.

It was an interesting take on horror movies. What if the characters in a horror movie were being manipulated by high tech lab guys, who were themselves being controlled by monsters? Not bad for a premise. Not a bad way to meld sci-fi into horror. Alien/s being the best.

I just read "Serenity" by JW (great dialog and full of "we see," asides, and camera angles) and am also a big fan of his TV series work.  

I wondered why we would pick a script by a director known for writing with all kinds of idiosyncracies for review in a SC? Just saying. What will we learn from this that will benefit spec script writers? Of course, we can learn what not to do.

The force field added a sci-fi "gotcha" moment, the purge botton was similar to how JW ended the Angel series by throwing every evil creature at Angel and his entourage. Angel "I'll take the dragon... " Didn't like it then either but the creature gallery will be great spectacle.

Besides the giant human hand might just be flipping us the bird.

Gary

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Dreamscale
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 11:28am Report to Moderator
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Wow, lots to comment on.

First and most glaring, though, is our old buddy Andrew.

Andrew, I find it very odd that you haven't read the script, have absolutely no clue what it is that we're all talking about, yet you feel the need to write a long excerpt, bashing us for bashing a piece of shit script.

What gives, man?  I honestly don't get it.

You know, reading and reviewing pro scripts goes 2 ways, actually.  Kind of like reading and reviewing reveled SS writer's scripts.

Most are going to say how great it is, how much they love it, and how fucking talented the writer is.  They will play up the positives and ignore the negatives and mistakes.  They'll say things like, "they don't need to follow any rules", "they don't give a shit about formatting", "they can make up their own style, and it's so great I'm going to write like that also".

But others, like myself and a few others in here, will say what they truly think, whether or not, it's a seasoned, highly successful pro they're going up against.

There have been a number of these Script Clubs where that has been going on, and IMO, it's complete BULLSHIT!  I don't give a fuck who wrote a script.  If it sucks, it fucking sucks.  If it's good, that's great.

The way you're acting is the exact problem in Hollywood now.  No one wants to look at anything from anyone they don't know.  Yet, they'll jump on board anything a "successful" pro churns out.

It's crap actually and it really does piss me off.  It doesn't make me want to purposely bash a pro's script or movie.  It's nothing like that at all.  I'm never going to follow a crowd that I don't believe in, and I'm never going to tell anyone something's good, when I don't think it is.
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Grandma Bear
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I would have preferred a darker ending. Like this was a reality show. People had become so jaded to violence and such that it is now seen as entertainment. Kind of like the new Romans.

The all out monster thing ruined it for me. Not to mention the hand.

Andrew, have you got the script yet? If not, pm me your e-mail address and I'll send it on.  


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James McClung
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 11:48am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Most are going to say how great it is, how much they love it, and how fucking talented the writer is.  They will play up the positives and ignore the negatives and mistakes.  They'll say things like, "they don't need to follow any rules", "they don't give a shit about formatting", "they can make up their own style, and it's so great I'm going to write like that also".


This is totally on point. Except... why should we bother talking about format in the Script Club? I thought the whole point it was created was to be able to discuss scripts frankly and not as writers (to a point). Am I to understand that while I was away, we reverted back to the same old shit? What's the point then?

Also, Hollywood writers can't produce a readable script worth a goddamn. Look at Tarantino. I've read Kill Bill and Inglourious Basterds. They were twice as bad as this one was. In fact, I'm astounded at how he can write such brilliant dialogue yet put such awkward, stilted and un-witty descriptions on paper. Of course, all the shit gets lost when they translate to the screen... well, at least in Tarantino's case it does. Let's hope the final act doesn't make it through test screenings. I'm pretty sure whatever marketing research the studios try to fill in the blanks with will be better than the evil gods bullshit.


Quoted from Grandma Bear
I would have preferred a darker ending. Like this was a reality show. People had become so jaded to violence and such that it is now seen as entertainment. Kind of like the new Romans.


I don't think they should've gone for anything dark and stuck to the tone of the story. I was under the impression that it was just a production company trying to make horror movies using real people to make them scarier or something. A simple idea. Wouldn't have been great but I don't think they would've been able to "wow" me with anything, really. I think it would've suited the films needs.


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 11:50am Report to Moderator
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I'm not really making any definitive points here...just adding to the discussion...and pointing out that merit is subjective...and that different mindsets have different ideas of merit.

I've been recently networking quite a lot and have been speaking to people who have received funding from different sources for their films...from major film companies..down to individual investors who have nothing to do with the film industry.

There's a guy called Martin Wallace who has just made his first feature called Nowhere Fast.

http://www.independentexposure.com/filmmaker/987/

He got his money by guaranteeing the money back..plus ten percent. He is actually contractually obliged to pay back their investment plus ten percent..so he either makes a profit on his film...or he'll have to work for two or three years to pay it off.

Madness IMHO...I'd never do that myself...but the point is this. How many of the investors asked to read the script do you think?

If you guessed zero...you'd be right. All they care about is that they'll get their money back...plus a bit more.

Now this is an extreme example...and a risk I can't honestly believe he'd take...but it highlights an important point I think. A lot of Producers/Investors don't claim to know whether a script is good or not...that's not their job.

They look at things that aren't left to chance: Demographics, genre, who is attached to the project (Actors first, behind the camera second), they look for a unique selling point...something that allows them to market it easily. These are things they can make an objective judgement about...who is the audience? Do we know how to reach the audience? etc etc

They are businessmen...not filmmakers or critics. They might read a treatment..but often they won't even bother with the script itself..that's the Directors concern.

These are the people who buy your scripts. Whatever level you are at..you need to know what they want.  

So marketability is important and understanding that the film industry, at any level, is a business just like any other is an important point. A critical one actually IMO.

The lack of understanding that a lot of writers, actors, filmmakers etc have about marketing and business is what separates them from the successful ones...not talent IMHO.

I know actors and have auditioned actors that are quite famous who work all the time, but can't act even slightly...almost entirely devoid of talent..but they know how to network and sell themselves. I've auditioned others who have immense talent but never get any work because they don't move in the right circles.

Same thing with filmmakers...I've known incredibly talented Directors who wonder why they can't get funding from major production houses when they are pitching autobiographical stories of growing up on the streets of Paris as an immigrant to Dreamworks...just don't seem to have a grasp on reality at all.


Anyway...the relevance to this particular script: Look at the marketing campaign already under way...using the old Cabin in the Woods and the horror conventions as a tool to garner interest. The core story is a marketing campaign in itself. The script is full of stuff that will look great in a quick advert...the "horror film to end all horror films"...that's Whedon's pitch right there....and is a marketing hook in its own right.

He just totally understands the business...huge, epic demon hands coming out of the ground to sell the story on the big screen..but only at the very end so that they can keep the budget down.

If you keep ticking the boxes, you give yourself more chance.

Like I said before, I think if it's filmed properly it will be quite a fun film...maybe on the level of Bloody Valentine 3D which I enjoyed watching a lot in 3D. i quite enjoyed reading it...even though I think it lacks any real artisitc merit...I can see that it has potential entertainment value and that it has some sales potential.
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Brian M
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Andrew,

I guarantee that you will be just as frustrated as the rest of us when you read the script. It is the worst ending I've ever read in any script in my life, and I'm a BIG fan of Joss Whedon. He's one of the few writers in Hollywood who's work I have to own at any cost. I think he's great, but there is no way I could defend that ending. It still makes me angry just thinking about it and I really hope they change it before the cinema release as I will be going to see this anyway.

I don't think the rest of the script is bad in any way. Scream is far superior when it comes to taking the mick out of the horror cliches but I think it could still work here, and may come across better onscreen if the cast does a decent job. I think it was Pia who said they should let the Gods sleep, take them out completely. I agree 100%. If the ending was Marty and Dana breaking into the control room and getting revenge, then this would be a pretty decent movie.

I'm not too bothered about the format because the co-writer is the director so they won't give a damn how it is written. However, it does worry me that there were two good writers on this project and both of them thought the ending was good enough. Maybe the ending was a joke and the script was intentionally leaked. Whedon and his buddy will be killing themseleves with laughter at people like us right now.

Brian
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James McClung
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 12:02pm Report to Moderator
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I was following you. I can't say I agreed with everything you were saying but I was definitely following you and you were making some good points until...


Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
Same thing with filmmakers...I've known incredibly talented Directors who wonder why they can't get funding from major production houses when they are pitching autobiographical stories of growing up on the streets of Paris as an immigrant to Dreamworks...just don't seem to have a grasp on reality at all.


This all comes back to everyone's mutual chubby for Hollywood and the American film industry.

Jim Jarmusch said he prefers to find investors from outside the States because it's "a good way to avoid a lot of bullshit." He gets final cut and owns the negatives to all his films. He's never been huge in the industry but he's successful enough to make films with Bill Murray and yet he's far from what you'd call marketable. Maybe his name's big enough at this point that he can get investors easy but he certainly didn't start out that way.

So I ask. How do guys like these make it in the industry? They're not writing for a market at all.


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 12:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung
I was following you. I can't say I agreed with everything you were saying but I was definitely following you and you were making some good points until...



This all comes back to everyone's mutual chubby for Hollywood and the American film industry.

Jim Jarmusch said he prefers to find investors from outside the States because it's "a good way to avoid a lot of bullshit." He gets final cut and owns the negatives to all his films. He's never been huge in the industry but he's successful enough to make films with Bill Murray and yet he's far from what you'd call marketable. Maybe his name's big enough at this point that he can get investors easy but he certainly didn't start out that way.

So I ask. How do guys like these make it in the industry? They're not writing for a market at all.


I'm talking about the major studioes here and the quote you've put basically agrees with me...he can't be arsed with it so goes elsewhere. He, unlike the Director in my example above, understands the industry and doesn't waste his time and the studioes time pitching incompatible projects to the studioes.

I'm not saying that you can't get funding for stuff that isn't more off the wall...but most people write more genre based stuff....and the majority opinion seems to be that people want to make it in Hollywood as screenwriters (which is where the money is after all).

The independent market is still a market as well. Each company buys and distributes a certain style or type of film. It may be a question of quality for some...they will buy foreign films that win major awards..or whatever, but they all need to make a return on their investment.

Independent film esssentially tries to find a slightly more disparate audience and finds small groups of niche markets in different territories...but the principle is the same. You need to understand their needs and the audience they are looking for.
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James McClung
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 12:49pm Report to Moderator
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I think we're agreed then. You absolutely do have to have some marketing sense to survive in this business. In Hollywood or elsewhere. I just wish people wouldn't kid themselves in thinking only Hollywood is "making it." You can't be too much of an artist but you shouldn't compromise your writing either. Just be flexible and aware.


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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I would have preferred a darker ending. Like this was a reality show. People had become so jaded to violence and such that it is now seen as entertainment. Kind of like the new Romans.
The all out monster thing ruined it for me. Not to mention the hand.

Andrew, have you got the script yet? If not, pm me your e-mail address and I'll send it on.  


To be fair, I think that's been done quite a lot already...or at least a similar twist on the theme.

My Little Eye, Slashers, House of 9, the Condmened, FearDotCom, Untraceable...off the top of my head. There are a few others that I can't remember the name of as well.

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Grandma Bear
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


To be fair, I think that's been done quite a lot already...or at least a similar twist on the theme.

My Little Eye, Slashers, House of 9, the Condmened, FearDotCom, Untraceable...off the top of my head. There are a few others that I can't remember the name of as well.


I guess I don't watch enough movies!  

I'm interested in hearing all you guys suggestions for a better ending since we all seemed to hate the current one.



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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Grandma Bear


I guess I don't watch enough movies!  

I'm interested in hearing all you guys suggestions for a better ending since we all seemed to hate the current one.



I don't actually mind the ending in a weird way. It kind of IS the movie. It's billed as "the horror to end all horrors..literally". Without that ending...the whole point of what he is trying to do is lost.

It would just become a standard horror film, when he's trying to do a Watchmen and point out how stupid horror films are.

So yeah..it is what it is...it's pretty much unfixable.
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James McClung
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I'm interested in hearing all you guys suggestions for a better ending since we all seemed to hate the current one.


I would've still had the virgin die but more by chance, not making a big thing out of it. Marty would live, probably left astounded that he did indeed make it through. No dumb speech. I would still have the two douchebags offed by monsters but none of this PURGE nonsense. Only a couple monsters would get out and not by means of a single button. I'm thinking more along the lines of a malfunction, probably in the control room. Maybe one of them dies through some freak accident. A door closes on him or something? Just to make it even more pathetic. The director? Fuck 'em! He's useless. Only intended for the grande finale. I'd do away with him entirely. Or maybe he's abroad. On "business." Oh and no big dumb action sequences. Maybe a shoot out with a handful of guards. That's about it.

Just brainstorming. But I'm pretty sure my little brain farts are better than the turd we have now.


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 2:17pm Report to Moderator
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Well hello, Joss.

Pleased to meet you, if you ever stop by our little abode here in Simply. If not, pleased to meet you anyways because I'm sure I just have.

Oh my, I did see those terrible creatures skulking about down below. I shur doo heer U!

What fun you must have had with this. Laughing at yourself, the industry, and most importantly, life.

Jeff is right, this probably was a tremendously "real faked" and "faked real" leak that is one of those things that is fun to do. If not, it's just a fun thing that people like to imagine. Oooh fake leak. Yeah!  

Sandra




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Dreamscale
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 2:35pm Report to Moderator
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Sandra, are you saying you think it is a joke of some kind?

Or do you think this is an actual draft of the script?

I agree with James...the big action scenes are God awful.  The dirt bike jump...get rid of it!  The Rambler crash into the lake...get rid of it!  The monsters are being "purged"...GET RID OF IT!

My idea would be a bit different actually if I were to retool this.  First of, I'd lose the parody nature of it completely.  Sure, it can still be fun and have humor, but change the tone, cause it's seriously irritating the way it reads now.

Lose the force field.

Instead of having the zombie family be the only "monster" antag for the majority of the film, have the kids take them out early.  Then, bring in another monster antag.  DO this a few times, and you've got a unique spin on an old premise.

Would I bring any survivors into the control room for the big showdown?  I don't think so.  I'd leave things ambiguous at the end and leave things open for a sequel.
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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Sandra, are you saying you think it is a joke of some kind?

Or do you think this is an actual draft of the script?

I agree with James...the big action scenes are God awful.  The dirt bike jump...get rid of it!  The Rambler crash into the lake...get rid of it!  The monsters are being "purged"...GET RID OF IT!

My idea would be a bit different actually if I were to retool this.  First of, I'd lose the parody nature of it completely.  Sure, it can still be fun and have humor, but change the tone, cause it's seriously irritating the way it reads now.

Lose the force field.

Instead of having the zombie family be the only "monster" antag for the majority of the film, have the kids take them out early.  Then, bring in another monster antag.  DO this a few times, and you've got a unique spin on an old premise.

Would I bring any survivors into the control room for the big showdown?  I don't think so.  I'd leave things ambiguous at the end and leave things open for a sequel.


That part is a good idea, I think.

I really wanted to see more of  the mermen.
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James McClung
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
I really wanted to see more of  the mermen.


I like Jeff's idea as well. That said, the merman might've made a nice addition to the underwater scene.

In fact, discussing alternate ideas for the film actually makes the script seem worse than it actually is. There were so many places they could've gone and yet they didn't seem interested.


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 3:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Sandra, are you saying you think it is a joke of some kind?

Or do you think this is an actual draft of the script?

I agree with James...the big action scenes are God awful.  The dirt bike jump...get rid of it!  The Rambler crash into the lake...get rid of it!  The monsters are being "purged"...GET RID OF IT!



Yes, Jeff, I absolutely think this is a joke. It feels to me like a very "insider's joke" and yet despite that, there are some very real truths to catch within the apparent mockery.

The character of Holden expresses the inside-joke aspect right here on page 8:

Holden
(shakes her hand)
Holden. Really nice to meet you and thank you guys
for letting me crash your weekend. I'll just put a
disclaimer up front: you don't have to explain any
of your in-jokes. I'll probably be drunk and think
they're funny anyway. Should I have left out the part
about being drunk?

Sandra




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Dreamscale
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Just to try and keep this going here...I had a few more ideas and points of the script that didn't make any sense at all...

The fact that this 'sacrifice" takes place once a year is downright stupid.  What are all these technicians and the like doing all year long, if this happens only once, over a day or 2?  Where is the money coming from to run this giant thing, with all these various people?  And the force field?  Why?  We've go this technology and all it's used for is this once per year thing?  Stupid!

What about the references to other countries also doing it?  Why?  Are we to believe that each nation is responsible for their own sacrifice every year?

Why the random "at least 5 people with 1 virgin"?  How is supposed to be that the virgin dies last?  Are the monsters supposed to know this and make sure they don't take her out before the others?

Why does it take place in this nondescript cabin in the woods?  Does this mean that each year, the group needs to come from some nearby area?

The kids went on this trip because 1 of the guys said his cousin just bought this place, then later, it was brought up that he didn't even think he had a cousin...huh?  What's that supposed to mean?  Some random, "fake" invite came up and these 5 jumped at it?  Huh?

It would be much better if it really was some kind of lottery, where a "lucky" group gets chosen at random to take an all expense paid trip to a "nice" place.  It should also be much more frequent...like every month at least, otherwise, the whole thing just doesn't add up that all these people would be involved, with all this high tech stuff that has to cost a fortune to maintain and run.

Finally, I think it would be better if the betting made more sense as well.  More like the monsters are chosen, based on dollar amount betted...if the first batch doesn't successfully take out the group, the next highest is release, and so on.

Thoughts?
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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Just to try and keep this going here...I had a few more ideas and points of the script that didn't make any sense at all...

The fact that this 'sacrifice" takes place once a year is downright stupid.  What are all these technicians and the like doing all year long, if this happens only once, over a day or 2?  Where is the money coming from to run this giant thing, with all these various people?  And the force field?  Why?  We've go this technology and all it's used for is this once per year thing?  Stupid!

What about the references to other countries also doing it?  Why?  Are we to believe that each nation is responsible for their own sacrifice every year?

Why the random "at least 5 people with 1 virgin"?  How is supposed to be that the virgin dies last?  Are the monsters supposed to know this and make sure they don't take her out before the others?

Why does it take place in this nondescript cabin in the woods?  Does this mean that each year, the group needs to come from some nearby area?

The kids went on this trip because 1 of the guys said his cousin just bought this place, then later, it was brought up that he didn't even think he had a cousin...huh?  What's that supposed to mean?  Some random, "fake" invite came up and these 5 jumped at it?  Huh?

It would be much better if it really was some kind of lottery, where a "lucky" group gets chosen at random to take an all expense paid trip to a "nice" place.  It should also be much more frequent...like every month at least, otherwise, the whole thing just doesn't add up that all these people would be involved, with all this high tech stuff that has to cost a fortune to maintain and run.

Finally, I think it would be better if the betting made more sense as well.  More like the monsters are chosen, based on dollar amount betted...if the first batch doesn't successfully take out the group, the next highest is release, and so on.

Thoughts?


I think you are a bit guilty of doing what you sometimes accuse others of...overthinking things and looking for holes in throwaway stories.

Isn't it all just playing around with silly horror conventions? The virgin surviving...the mysterious invite to the weird house..."the cabin in the woods".

Even the title is taking the piss.

He's being ironic isn't he?.
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stevie
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A different ending would only work if the script became either a straight parody or full on serious.
A comedy ending could be, well, anything really, as long as it was funny.
A serious ending could have all the people killed(the references to kids kept annoying me, actually - these dudes were at least 20, weren't they?) but at the end, as the control room guys are high fiving or whatever, a zombie Marty or Dana could appear from the roof, then...end.

i had visions of 'The Running Man' in here too, as an influence. if this was done seriously, it could be a good concept. likewise as a full on pisstake.



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James McClung
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


I think you are a bit guilty of doing what you sometimes accuse others of...overthinking things and looking for holes in throwaway stories.

Isn't it all just playing around with silly horror conventions? The virgin surviving...the mysterious invite to the weird house..."the cabin in the woods".

Even the title is taking the piss.

He's being ironic isn't he?.


I think Jeff makes a good point about the references to other countries though. Especially Japan. Their J-horror takes a completely different approach. One that doesn't fit into the scheme of things here. So it's a parody? That doesn't mean the writers haven't set up the rules for their own universe.


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: May 4th, 2010, 5:16pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


I think you are a bit guilty of doing what you sometimes accuse others of...overthinking things and looking for holes in throwaway stories.

Isn't it all just playing around with silly horror conventions? The virgin surviving...the mysterious invite to the weird house..."the cabin in the woods".

Even the title is taking the piss.

He's being ironic isn't he?.


I think that he probably sat down to write one day with a buddy and they, as we do, started "what ifing". All the cliches and stereotypes filled their lovely brains and they had a blast.

By the way, I enjoyed the dirt bike scene.

And the ending I thought was fitting for the type of thing they did.

If actors get a hold of this, it will likely take on a much less gruesome flavor as we might get in the script.

Sandra



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Scar Tissue Films
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James,

I'm not sure I really follow you. The script makes it clear that every culture has its own sleeping God...and if one wakes up, they all do. The Director says so at the end and says that every culture is different and they change over time.

The Japenese experiment failed...the Japs won. Zero fatality. Their game featured a J-Horror floating drowned girl and young Japanese schoolgirls.They exorcised the ghost by working together using a bowl of water.   

So they are now relying on the Americans to lose and keep the peace...it's a bit of political satire going on.

He mentions Stockholm as well...this is going on all over the world but every other country manages to survive...which isn't supposed to happen.

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Scar Tissue Films
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Got to be honest....the script is growing on me quite a lot.

I'm re-reading parts of it as people bring things up and there is a lot of subtle humour that passed me by when I first read it.

There's a few cracking lines from Holden..in particular on page 62 when he's on about the book they found in the cellar...and Marty a characetr that stood out for me the first time is very funny.

That whole part...from where Marty is reading Curious George to the point that Matthew comes in with Jules's head...is extremely funny IMHO.

I took it too seriously when I first read it...now I know what I'm reading it's pretty hysterical actually.
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
it too seriously when I first read it...now I know what I'm reading it's pretty hysterical actually.


Kind of like the first time people watched The People Under the Stairs. If you watch it as a horror, you'll hate it whereas one watches it as a comedy and it's hilarious.


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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


Kind of like the first time people watched The People Under the Stairs. If you watch it as a horror, you'll hate it whereas one watches it as a comedy and it's hilarious.


Good shout. The bit at the end when all the yellowed people were walking around after being freed...comedy gold.
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Will be interesting to see the end product. If this was am attempt at comedy, horror satire, I think it pulled it off pretty well...

As i said in my review. There were a few scenes in here that were laugh out loud funny. It just seemed like it tried to take itself seriously at the same time though. Normal horror with comedy peppered through out.

It will be fun to watch it hit the big screen... What will the Critics and public think of it???


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Dreamscale
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The critics will hate it and hopefully, so will the public.

I personally have zero interest in seeing it, based on what I read.

So, does Iceland have their own God?  Each and every separate country in Africa?  Canada?

Am I reading too much into this?  I don't know, but these and everything else I mentioned earlier came to me as serious logic mistakes.  I like logic and I hate when things don't make any sense.  It kills everything right out of the gate for me.
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maybe this is intended to be watched at home with some friends while drinking...it could be kind of funny then, but personally I would prefer that they went for straight horror. Maybe Rick is right though. As a horror, it is unfixable in it's current stage.


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Quoted from Dreamscale
The critics will hate it and hopefully, so will the public.

I personally have zero interest in seeing it, based on what I read.

So, does Iceland have their own God?  Each and every separate country in Africa?  Canada?

Am I reading too much into this?  I don't know, but these and everything else I mentioned earlier came to me as serious logic mistakes.  I like logic and I hate when things don't make any sense.  It kills everything right out of the gate for me.


Scripts live in their own made up world. That place can be anything the writers decide.

I think you just didn't get it. It'll be there to get.

L&P and all that,

R


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What is "L & P"?

Oh, I got it alright.  I definitely don't like what I got though.

Guess it should be said that I normally do not appreciate humor and horror mixed together, as I don't think the 2 go hand in hand at all.  Horror can definitely have humor mixed in, but IMO, it should be played for reals...straight up.  Just what I prefer, I guess.

Ren, did you read this?
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I refer the honourable gentlemen to my recent posts. I try not to repeat myself. Hey, I can try. Alas I often fail. A lass. That'd be nice. One at a time.

Hmmm. They don't seem to be queueing up yet. This is frankly typical.

And no. I didn't. I read bits. Quick scan, typathing.

There were holes to be dug. And dug they were. Frigging things are fulla water now. Does anyone have a pump? Lasses and pumps. I'm sure there's a joke somewhere.

Where is my pail? It's gone beyond.

P&L

R


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I have absolutely no clue what the gibberish is supposed to mean.

Should I ask again, or is it a waste?

I did get that you didn't read the script, so I'm not sure what you're bringing to the table here, Ren.
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Gibberish? Gibberish!

Hmmm. Subtext not big round your way then.

I have to spell it O-U-T? Do I? Dedumms.

Now then. Quieten down, you lot. Yes, you boys at the back too. Come on!

That's better. Sitting comfortably? Then, I shall begin.

When a man loves a woman certain things begin to...

Sorry, wrong textbook. Where is my book. Ah, thank you.

Where is the table. Ah. Over there.

I scanned it. And I got it. It has a lot of humour in it. As Scream did.

A lot of references to previous horror films. Stuff that any horrror fan would recognise.

The scene it reminded me of was the discussion in Scream and sequels about sequels.

Witness Drew Barrymore getting slaughtered early on. All this yap about virgins.

Friday The Halloween. Even the bleeding Shining.

It's all there to find.

I found this script highly amusing. And rather entertaining. In the right hands it'll make a bloody good romp. I'd pay hard cash to see it. And it's not often I put up with all the little annoying tossers that like hanging round cinemas these days.

Of course it's not perfect. But then again, what is?

That clear enough for you?

Love and drink,

R


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Quoted from Dreamscale
What is "L & P"?

Oh, I got it alright.  I definitely don't like what I got though.

Guess it should be said that I normally do not appreciate humor and horror mixed together, as I don't think the 2 go hand in hand at all.  Horror can definitely have humor mixed in, but IMO, it should be played for reals...straight up.  Just what I prefer, I guess.

Ren, did you read this?


Jeff... Geoffrey,   you need to address your concerns to God. He did it I'm afraid. Yes, the whole mash of logical and illogical, laughter and horror... It's all part of the matrix we're in. It's the "you say toma-toe, and I say tomo-toe" debate. You can't have one without the other.



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Andrew
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First off, 'making it' is an expression for achieving your own goals. Not just some sensationlised way to say 'making lots of money'.

Honesty is always the best policy, even if it's unpopular. My bugbear with some of the comments here and beyond come down to a basic lack of respect. It doesn't matter if the one being dissed is aware or not - and it's logical to deduce this type of disrespectful behaviour would permeate the actions of someone on set.

I do take umbrage with this comment, James:


Quoted from James McClung
that the average movie goer is retarded


Firstly, what is the "average movie goer"? That means nothing to me. Secondly, do these people exclusively see films that you deem suitably retarded? And what would those movies be? I'll refer you to three ex-girlfriends. One is a scientist. Very clever girl and her favourite movie is the 'The Notebook'. Is she retarded? Ex girlfriend number 2. She studied at Oxford and would watch anything (probably something 'retarded'). Third ex, she is a banker and much like the other two, she couldn't give a toss what is mass market or whatever else. I also have many working class friends, who didn't go beyond school. Mechanics, carpenters, bums and everything in between - very much the 'average movie goer' if we introduce demographics as a firm foundation and not some wooly tag. You know, one of the bums watches as diverse range a movies as anyone here and despite him falling under the 'average movie goer', he even thinks when he watches his films.

So what's the point? That stereotyping people often says more about the person doing so, than those judged. Also, why do you want to work in film? Serious, why? 'Cos the seeming contempt you hold for your potential audience suggests your career will be very short, frankly.

Why do I want to work in film? 'Cos I want to produce and write films that touch people. Entertain, inform, provocative or guilty fun, it doesn't matter. Do I want to a part of making movies for moviemakers, or for as many people who can take something from it? For me, that's not even a question.

The above example is exactly the type of attitude that needs addressing, to my mind. Yes, Hollywood is a business and many of its executives think of nothing but the bottom line. It's a business, so get over it. Film is not some pure form. It has prostituted itself as has many forms of entertainment - there are products churned out to make money, but does it mean they are made for 'stupid people'? Such a simplistic way to approach films. To me, it's more about tapping into what people want as enjoyment on date night, or chilling out to when they've have had a bad day, than going for the lowest common denominator. So, does that make the mass market stimuli exclusively catered for 'retarded people', or does it represent catching a mood, or writing for a market and giving them what they want? Which is not a simple skill in itself.

There are, however, directors like Spielberg, Scorcese who have weaved out terrific careers by working around the money men, by writing for 'both audiences', which is a load of bollocks 'cos it assumes the 'commercial' audience must be 'retards' while the 'art' audience comprises 'intellectuals'. The same intellectuals who seemingly do not understand psychology and social behaviour, if their stereotypes are to be believed.  

No money men, no film. Any industry outside of Hollywood is essentially a microcosm that works to the same business logic, just maybe without the over zealous need to make money. But to suggest that any other film industry is not as susceptible to the bottom line as Hollywood belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the real world.

The key is to understand both the essence of your story, who is it for and knowing how to get it out there. A story can have a lot of soul and still be written with a market in mind - just look at the romantic genre or the horror genre for that matter. Writing gratuitous kill scenes could be considered the lowest common denominator for the 'retarded' audience, but it's generally termed creative writing. That's just plain hypocrisy. Some people just seem scared of 'selling out', but I thought most got over that at 15 when they realised listening to alternative music doesn't make them unique.

This comment from Rick shows that he is very shrewd and this will serve him well, a point that messrs Spielberg and Scorcese demonstrate in abundance:


Quoted from Rick
The lack of understanding that a lot of writers, actors, filmmakers etc have about marketing and business is what separates them from the successful ones...not talent IMHO.


If people are content to snipe and bitch about working people's work while pigeon-holing themselves as serious-types, or trying to be the next Hitchcock, and refusing to acknowledge their audience may just be bright, will likely find themselves on the outside looking in, unless they get a huge dollop of luck. A huge appetite for learning, being modest and understanding what your own weaknesses are will stand you in better stead than labouring over why someone else - who coincidentally does what you want - is rubbish and not as good as you are.

Jeff, you are remarkably sensitive for a man who shouts the loudest. If you are taking any of this personally, you really need not. If you do, then maybe you should put your own insensitive comments in check for others who may take it personally when you exuberantly rip a script a new one.

I could go on, but will refrain as it may be considered sidetracking the subject. However, I do think it's pertinent as it touches on intentions, markets and audiences which seem to be applicable here.

Andrew


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Sandra Elstree.
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Quoted from Andrew
First off, 'making it' is an expression for achieving your own goals. Not just some sensationlised way to say 'making lots of money'.

Honesty is always the best policy, even if it's unpopular. My bugbear with some of the comments here and beyond come down to a basic lack of respect. It doesn't matter if the one being dissed is aware or not - and it's logical to deduce this type of disrespectful behaviour would permeate the actions of someone on set.

I do take umbrage with this comment, James:



Firstly, what is the "average movie goer"? That means nothing to me. Secondly, do these people exclusively see films that you deem suitably retarded? And what would those movies be? I'll refer you to three ex-girlfriends. One is a scientist. Very clever girl and her favourite movie is the 'The Notebook'. Is she retarded? Ex girlfriend number 2. She studied at Oxford and would watch anything (probably something 'retarded'). Third ex, she is a banker and much like the other two, she couldn't give a toss what is mass market or whatever else. I also have many working class friends, who didn't go beyond school. Mechanics, carpenters, bums and everything in between - very much the 'average movie goer' if we introduce demographics as a firm foundation and not some wooly tag. You know, one of the bums watches as diverse range a movies as anyone here and despite him falling under the 'average movie goer', he even thinks when he watches his films.

So what's the point? That stereotyping people often says more about the person doing so, than those judged. Also, why do you want to work in film? Serious, why? 'Cos the seeming contempt you hold for your potential audience suggests your career will be very short, frankly.

Why do I want to work in film? 'Cos I want to produce and write films that touch people. Entertain, inform, provocative or guilty fun, it doesn't matter. Do I want to a part of making movies for moviemakers, or for as many people who can take something from it? For me, that's not even a question.

The above example is exactly the type of attitude that needs addressing, to my mind. Yes, Hollywood is a business and many of its executives think of nothing but the bottom line. It's a business, so get over it. Film is not some pure form. It has prostituted itself as has many forms of entertainment - there are products churned out to make money, but does it mean they are made for 'stupid people'? Such a simplistic way to approach films. To me, it's more about tapping into what people want as enjoyment on date night, or chilling out to when they've have had a bad day, than going for the lowest common denominator. So, does that make the mass market stimuli exclusively catered for 'retarded people', or does it represent catching a mood, or writing for a market and giving them what they want? Which is not a simple skill in itself.

There are, however, directors like Spielberg, Scorcese who have weaved out terrific careers by working around the money men, by writing for 'both audiences', which is a load of bollocks 'cos it assumes the 'commercial' audience must be 'retards' while the 'art' audience comprises 'intellectuals'. The same intellectuals who seemingly do not understand psychology and social behaviour, if their stereotypes are to be believed.  

No money men, no film. Any industry outside of Hollywood is essentially a microcosm that works to the same business logic, just maybe without the over zealous need to make money. But to suggest that any other film industry is not as susceptible to the bottom line as Hollywood belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the real world.

The key is to understand both the essence of your story, who is it for and knowing how to get it out there. A story can have a lot of soul and still be written with a market in mind - just look at the romantic genre or the horror genre for that matter. Writing gratuitous kill scenes could be considered the lowest common denominator for the 'retarded' audience, but it's generally termed creative writing. That's just plain hypocrisy. Some people just seem scared of 'selling out', but I thought most got over that at 15 when they realised listening to alternative music doesn't make them unique.

This comment from Rick shows that he is very shrewd and this will serve him well, a point that messrs Spielberg and Scorcese demonstrate in abundance:



If people are content to snipe and bitch about working people's work while pigeon-holing themselves as serious-types, or trying to be the next Hitchcock, and refusing to acknowledge their audience may just be bright, will likely find themselves on the outside looking in, unless they get a huge dollop of luck. A huge appetite for learning, being modest and understanding what your own weaknesses are will stand you in better stead than labouring over why someone else - who coincidentally does what you want - is rubbish and not as good as you are.

Jeff, you are remarkably sensitive for a man who shouts the loudest. If you are taking any of this personally, you really need not. If you do, then maybe you should put your own insensitive comments in check for others who may take it personally when you exuberantly rip a script a new one.

I could go on, but will refrain as it may be considered sidetracking the subject. However, I do think it's pertinent as it touches on intentions, markets and audiences which seem to be applicable here.

Andrew


Holy Shit!

All that from Cabin in The Woods.

I'm shamed.

Sandra



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Actually I'm kind of pleased that people are being critical of the script.  I remember a while back when we did our first produced script and no one would comment on what was wrong with it because it was going to be "produced".  

We've come a long way Script Club. Well done.
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Okay. Once again. Why don't you read the script. I can see you're making the effort but how can you possibly comment if you have no idea what people are talking about?!


Quoted from Andrew
Firstly, what is the "average movie goer"? That means nothing to me. Secondly, do these people exclusively see films that you deem suitably retarded? And what would those movies be? I'll refer you to three ex-girlfriends. One is a scientist. Very clever girl and her favourite movie is the 'The Notebook'. Is she retarded? Ex girlfriend number 2. She studied at Oxford and would watch anything (probably something 'retarded'). Third ex, she is a banker and much like the other two, she couldn't give a toss what is mass market or whatever else. I also have many working class friends, who didn't go beyond school. Mechanics, carpenters, bums and everything in between - very much the 'average movie goer' if we introduce demographics as a firm foundation and not some wooly tag. You know, one of the bums watches as diverse range a movies as anyone here and despite him falling under the 'average movie goer', he even thinks when he watches his films.


The average movie goer is not so much some who will watch anything so much as someone who doesn't care what they watch. Not specific enough for you? How about someone who'd watch Norbit and like it?


Quoted from Andrew
Why do I want to work in film?


You must've wanted to ruffle my feathers with this one. Seriously.

Because I love film and I have a fire in my belly and I can do better than the bullshit Hollywood is feeding to me. Why else? I don't so much have contempt for this audience so much as I don't want to write for them. I want to write for people who actually care about films and can take more from them than someone who goes to see Watchmen and gets made that it wasn't a "real" superhero movie. All my heroes have been cult filmmakers to a certain degree who care about what they do and were able to find an audience just the same so I know it's possible.

What can I say? I'm the wrong person to be talking to about this. I have no interest in the Hollywood system and I know that I can be successful without it. You can pass judgement on my "lack of success" (if that's what you want to call it) all you want. I don't give a fuck.


Quoted from Andrew
No money men, no film. Any industry outside of Hollywood is essentially a microcosm that works to the same business logic, just maybe without the over zealous need to make money. But to suggest that any other film industry is not as susceptible to the bottom line as Hollywood belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the real world.


Movies are expensive. It has to be a business and I understand that. But to say the industries outside of Hollywood are exactly the same... no, just no. I never said it was easy to thrive outside of Hollywood and I never said other industries aren't looking for money. But I do believe there's more people who care outside of Hollywood and I've seen it first hand.


Quoted from Andrew
The key is to understand both the essence of your story, who is it for and knowing how to get it out there. A story can have a lot of soul and still be written with a market in mind - just look at the romantic genre or the horror genre for that matter. Writing gratuitous kill scenes could be considered the lowest common denominator for the 'retarded' audience, but it's generally termed creative writing. That's just plain hypocrisy. Some people just seem scared of 'selling out', but I thought most got over that at 15 when they realised listening to alternative music doesn't make them unique.


If you'll look back, you'll find some of my thoughts on this kind of mentality.


Quoted from Andrew
If people are content to snipe and bitch about working people's work while pigeon-holing themselves as serious-types, or trying to be the next Hitchcock, and refusing to acknowledge their audience may just be bright, will likely find themselves on the outside looking in, unless they get a huge dollop of luck. A huge appetite for learning, being modest and understanding what your own weaknesses are will stand you in better stead than labouring over why someone else - who coincidentally does what you want - is rubbish and not as good as you are.


I know this wasn't for me but then it sorta is. Why not snipe and bitch? Why shouldn't I snipe and bitch? I'm 23. I've got the rest of my life to be "reasonable" and I think I stand a better chance in this business than someone who's all bright-eyed and hoping for the best. They're gonna get their hearts broken in the end. Besides, I think I'm a better writer because I'm unhappy with the current state of things. I push myself harder because of it. I understand my own weaknesses and I'm flexible when it comes to the business side of things. But I'm never going to put someone over me just because they have success. Can't you see the bullshit in that? It's important to be humble but it's important to have some self worth and, more importantly, some goddamn confidence as well.


Quoted from Andrew
I could go on, but will refrain as it may be considered sidetracking the subject. However, I do think it's pertinent as it touches on intentions, markets and audiences which seem to be applicable here.


Fair enough.

What can I say? I'm not in this for the same reasons as you but I can tell we both genuinely love film so we can go our divergent paths. I wish you the best. I just can't believe you asked me why I want to be in film? Obviously, it's not money and obviously, I'm here on SS talking to you. WTF do you think?!



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Quoted from Dreamscale
The critics will hate it and hopefully, so will the public.

I personally have zero interest in seeing it, based on what I read.

So, does Iceland have their own God?  Each and every separate country in Africa?  Canada?
Am I reading too much into this?  I don't know, but these and everything else I mentioned earlier came to me as serious logic mistakes.  I like logic and I hate when things don't make any sense.  It kills everything right out of the gate for me.


Re-read what the Director says on pg 102

"In every country, in every culture, there is a God to appease".

So yes, there is one in Iceland...one in Uganda, D.R. Congo...the whole world is going to be destroyed and evberyone on it after all.

These sleeping Gods used to walk the earth and fight amongst themselves. It's kind of a parody of H.P. Lovecrafts Cthulu mythos mixed in with the old tales of the Titans and such.
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
These sleeping Gods used to walk the earth and fight amongst themselves. It's kind of a parody of H.P. Lovecrafts Cthulu mythos mixed in with the old tales of the Titans and such.


I don't see the Lovecraft influence. Lovecraft's gods were completely indifferent to human existence and tended not to coexist with them. The Titans stuff sounds more on point.


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Quoted from James McClung


I don't see the Lovecraft influence. Lovecraft's gods were completely indifferent to human existence and tended not to coexist with them. The Titans stuff sounds more on point.


Yeah...I was just thinking about the whole sleeping Gogs thing...reminded me very much of Cthulu and his band of Monks who were awaiting his awakening..

These Gods don't seem to like to co-exist with humans either.
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
maybe this is intended to be watched at home with some friends while drinking...it could be kind of funny then, but personally I would prefer that they went for straight horror. Maybe Rick is right though. As a horror, it is unfixable in it's current stage.


I think if we were going for straight horror..the reality TV angle and the mental manipulation apsects would be the ones to really strenghten. That was quite good. Very good in places actually.

There's enough in there that you COULD turn it into a serious horror. However, I don't think it's that kind of film at all.

I made the mistake of reading the scriptshadow review before I read it, so I had it in my mind that it was rubbish and  I took it all at face value.

For instance the part where Curt clotheslined the mummy zombie and says "Dead Bitch!". If you read that seriously it's like something out of the Cabin on here...if you imagine an over the top WWE move with this saggy titted zombie somersaulting through the  air and a good actor overracting the line "Dead Bitch"...it's very funny stuff.

I think if they film it in a very intense, but over the top manner it should do well.
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Quoted from jwent6688
Will be interesting to see the end product. If this was am attempt at comedy, horror satire, I think it pulled it off pretty well...

As i said in my review. There were a few scenes in here that were laugh out loud funny. It just seemed like it tried to take itself seriously at the same time though. Normal horror with comedy peppered through out.

It will be fun to watch it hit the big screen... What will the Critics and public think of it???


I remember reading about the development of Scream and the Weinstein brothers...they asked "Hang on...are we making a scary movie with laughs...or a funny movie with scares?". I think at one point that film was becoming too comedic and they wanted it to be scary but funny.

This kind of thing is always on the edge. The Weinsteins are very good at understanding films..hopefully there will be similar minds on this.

I would have thought Dead Snow would have been a suitable template...over the top violence and gore with a very comedic undertone.
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Mate, I will read the script. Calm down. I am exceedingly busy right now and my SS time is taken up with this thread.


Quoted from James McClung
The average movie goer is not so much some who will watch anything so much as someone who doesn't care what they watch. Not specific enough for you? How about someone who'd watch Norbit and like it?


About as clear as mud. I do no think someone who watches 'Norbit' and likes it can be called 'retarded'. If this is actually what you think, it's better you stand by your convictions than to try and weasel out with that explanation.


Quoted from James McClung
You must've wanted to ruffle my feathers with this one. Seriously.


I really wasn't. I am just confused as to why you want to make films if you view your potential audience as 'retarded'. My post isn't designed to annoy you or ruffle your feathers. I always try and understand people and their motivations. Everyone has a reason for wanting to get into film. Me asking you isn't me suggesting it's for anything in particular - it was simply a genuine question.

This part sounds like the real answer, to me:


Quoted from James McClung
I want to write for people who actually care about films and can take more from them than someone who goes to see Watchmen and gets made that it wasn't a "real" superhero movie


Where you want to make films that people care about, I want to make films that touch people, irrespective of how much they care about film generally. I think an audience largely watches films for some specific want or need, and in your case it's is 'cos you care about film - I do not think, however, that one need is superior to another. I also do not think that because a person doesn't see movies as a statement of who they are, it instantly qualifies them as how you perceive. Film is more multi-faceted than that. And so are people. It seems you are not perceptive about people if you can compartmentalise them so easily.

I mean, 'Watchmen' was a pile of shit in my view, and that's not because it was marketed as a heir to 'Spiderman' or 'Dark Knight' but because it failed to put together a cohesive story, which largely owed to its content being unsuitable for a 3 hour movie. Someone who doesn't like that film and perhaps just watches mass market stuff, is not necessarily 'retarded' or incapable of reaching a simple conclusion: that 'Watchmen' was more than a 'superhero' movie. That's pretty basic, I think and it's as though you are trying to intellectualise something that is very basic, which leads to the 'us' and 'them' attitude - i.e. the film appreciators and the 'retards'.


Quoted from James McClung
Because I love film and I have a fire in my belly and I can do better than the bulls*** Hollywood is feeding to me. Why else?

What can I say? I'm the wrong person to be talking to about this. I have no interest in the Hollywood system and I know that I can be successful without it. You can pass judgement on my "lack of success" (if that's what you want to call it) all you want. I don't give a f***.


You must be taking it too personally. This is an internet forum of people who are largely passionate about film, so points of view differ and egos will be bruised if we cannot accept that others may find some of our views to be a little wonky, shall we say.

I think your intentions of wanting to not work in Hollywood are very noble (considering you view it as a cesspool of money mad hacks), and I wish you luck with it; however, you must concede that enjoying Hollywood product, no matter how frivolous you consider it doesn't make someone a 'retard', or a filmmaker some type of talentless sellout, or whatever you would term it.

Would you concede that point?


Quoted from James McClung
. But to say the industries outside of Hollywood are exactly the same... no, just no.


I never said that. I said it's essentially a microcosm, and this was in the context of money. It was referring to the bottom line. I don't see how you can debate this point. Indie or Hollywood blockbuster must generate income, otherwise the whole system becomes unsustainable - that was my point. I don't think you willfully ignored the point, but maybe you think I am attacking you when I am not, so you invert my comments to you as personal.


Quoted from James McClung
I know this wasn't for me but then it sorta is. Why not snipe and b****? Why shouldn't I snipe and b****? I'm 23. I've got the rest of my life to be "reasonable" and I think I stand a better chance in this business than someone who's all bright-eyed and hoping for the best. They're gonna get their hearts broken in the end. Besides, I think I'm a better writer because I'm unhappy with the current state of things. I push myself harder because of it. I understand my own weaknesses and I'm flexible when it comes to the business side of things. But I'm never  going to put someone over me just because they have success. Can't you see the bulls*** in that? It's important to be humble but it's important to have some self worth and, more importantly, some gd confidence as well.


James, I like that you have fire in your belly. So do I. I am not suggesting people cannot give honest views on a script, but can it not be done respectfully? Are we really that insecure? I don't think so, so I don't know why some of the views manifest as bitchy comments - it's just plain unnecessary. Do you not agree?

I am also not saying you should 'put someone over yourself'. Having belief in yourself is a prerequisite to break through in a competitive industry. However, my main point is that channelling your energy in a different, more considered way is likely to yield more for you and anyone else. Never lose the fire, but don't let it fuel potential arrogance.


Quoted from James McClung
What can I say? I'm not in this for the same reasons as you but I can tell we both genuinely love film so we can go our divergent paths. I wish you the best. I just can't believe you asked me why I want to be in film? Obviously, it's not money and obviously, I'm here on SS talking to you. WTF do you think?!


You made me chuckle there. Good form. I read and subsequently recommended your script 'Complete'. It was a good script and demonstrated you have talent. It also showed that your writing skills are sharper and more focused than mine currently are. My goal is to primarily produce work and I am getting on that road now, so perhaps our views come down to what is a difference in function; however, like you said, we are both genuinely in love with film, so it's hardly irrevocably different views in play. No, I would much rather try and reconcile and arrive at some form of consensus than to antagonise and flail around arguing.

Andrew


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Quoted from Andrew
I do no think someone who watches 'Norbit' and likes it can be called 'retarded'. If this is actually what you think, it's better you stand by your convictions than to try and weasel out with that explanation.


I do and I will. I'm sure there's people out there who like it ironically or thought it wasn't "that bad" but that still puts a damper on their tastes as far as I'm concerned.


Quoted from Andrew
I really wasn't. I am just confused as to why you want to make films if you view your potential audience as 'retarded'. My post isn't designed to annoy you or ruffle your feathers. I always try and understand people and their motivations. Everyone has a reason for wanting to get into film. Me asking you isn't me suggesting it's for anything in particular - it was simply a genuine question.


I overreacted. My apologizes. But I still think "what a question to be asked on a screenwriting board!" At least in this context. Not all of us are here to make a career out of screenwriting but I think all of us are here because we genuinely love film.


Quoted from Andrew
Where you want to make films that people care about, I want to make films that touch people, irrespective of how much they care about film generally. I think an audience largely watches films for some specific want or need, and in your case it's is 'cos you care about film - I do not think, however, that one need is superior to another. I also do not think that because a person doesn't see movies as a statement of who they are, it instantly qualifies them as how you perceive. Film is more multi-faceted than that. And so are people.


I think that's fair enough. I didn't mean to say that I only want to make movies for film buffs or however you may have interpreted it. I don't know. I don't think you have to be a film buff to appreciate film. I just don't like to see it treated as a disposable entertainment. It's purely emotional. I can only see the world through my eyes, right?


Quoted from Andrew
You must be taking it too personally. This is an internet forum of people who are largely passionate about film, so points of view differ and egos will be bruised if we cannot accept that others may find some of our views to be a little wonky, shall we say.


I was. Like I said. "What a question!" It's cool though. Clearly you didn't mean offense.


Quoted from Andrew
I think your intentions of wanting to not work in Hollywood are very noble (considering you view it as a cesspool of money mad hacks), and I wish you luck with it; however, you must concede that enjoying Hollywood product, no matter how frivolous you consider it doesn't make someone a 'retard', or a filmmaker some type of talentless sellout, or whatever you would term it.

Would you concede that point?


I will and I enjoy a fair number of Hollywood films as well as Hollywood directors. In fact, I would wager that Jaws is the greatest film of all time. Not my favorite but just the same. I think the place is host to a number of talented people as well as people who genuinely care about the work they do. But I also think it's full of "mad money hacks" as you say as well as whores and fake writers and filmmakers. I'm saying this of sound mind as well.


Quoted from Andrew
I never said that. I said it's essentially a microcosm, and this was in the context of money. It was referring to the bottom line. I don't see how you can debate this point. Indie or Hollywood blockbuster must generate income, otherwise the whole system becomes unsustainable - that was my point. I don't think you willfully ignored the point, but maybe you think I am attacking you when I am not, so you invert my comments to you as personal.


Okay. So you didn't say that and I understand your point. I still think Hollywood is an exceptionally soulless entity in the industry.


Quoted from Andrew
James, I like that you have fire in your belly. So do I. I am not suggesting people cannot give honest views on a script, but can it not be done respectfully? Are we really that insecure? I don't think so, so I don't know why some of the views manifest as bitchy comments - it's just plain unnecessary. Do you not agree?


Alas, we come back to the subject at hand. Good. We should stick to the topic.

And with that said, I understood the point of Script Club to discuss the script in a frank manner. Could I be more frank?

If I were to review this script, I might be a little more objective. Maybe even clean up my language. But not much. I backed up everything I said about the script and a lot of others did too. That's valuable feedback if you ask me.

Besides, Whedon's not here to read our comments and I don't he cares what we think anyway.

No hard feelings, dude. Good talking with you.


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Here's my thoughts. It was fun; bit bizarre and left of center, but entertaining. I liked the guys placing bets in the control center, especially the running gag with Hadley and the merman. I fully expected the "Director" to be the professor that Dana was screwing around with, and this was his idea of vengeance...otherwise, how the heck would the prep team know that Marty was coming, and even further to mess with his secret, secret stash? (I concur that stash jealousy is a conflict best avoided.) The whole stable of supernatural creatures living under this mountain, although visually cool, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Character voicing, I thought, was difficult to distinguish, with the exception of Marty...

The tunnel explosion was thwarted by someone upstairs? Who? God? Why? Understood the red phone due to Marty (the Fool) failing to get dead, but don't know how or why the tunnel thing would have corresponded to that. Might have missed something.

Holden was supposed to be the scholar, according to his marble etching. He doesn't say anything scholarly (Curt does in the beginning while talking about one of his professors, but he's already set up as the Jock, so...) I'd think that the fact that Dana wasn't exactly virginal should have proved to be an even greater conflict between the Corporation and the demons that they are working for..."We work with what we have" blows apart the whole meaning of the ritual...They are going to this length, they should have made sure that a virgin sacrifice requires the participation of an actual virgin. This discovery could have been a real "Stop the Presses!" kind of moment as they all realize they were screwed from the very beginning? The solution? Find another virgin, in which case Sitterson could have been a good candidate with much more comic results. (He would have suffered as the result of his choice to work for a shadowy, super-villianesque organization.)

Definitely should have gone the reality show route.

Liked Mordecai the Harbinger, probably the most memorable character in this piece...Agree, he does need a banjo playin' blind kid.

Jules and the wolf...silly, but somewhat in character. At least Jules got nuded before she got all spaded, bear trapped and deaded. Curt and Holden seemed interchangeable as characters; nothing unique about them other than being dudes for the ladies.

The latin would have been funnier if it had read "Lorem ipsum sit doler amet," but that's just my opinion.

Formatting? Bit confusing how they do the scene breaks with only a general INT/EXT Slug and then multiple locations in that general area. I suppose it is different for the pros, though, as well as the "we see's", audience asides and camera directions. Same with the lengthy, overly visual descriptions. But, that's life.

Works as a horror comedy in the Evil Dead vein, with Marty and the control room guys being the main source of comedy. The zombie family could have been funny, too, especially if they reverted back to their old personalities.

The naming conventions seemed odd. Wasn't sure who Wendy was (It was Wendy LIN as introduced, but LIN also being a woman's name, confusing where it didn't need to be, especially towards the end when they were yelling for Wendy.)

I don't think I'd pay to see it, especially in 3-D...(although Jules in the woods may be worth it), more so a Netflix rental.


Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently - Dove Chocolate Wrapper

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You made a lot of good points there. Especially about the virgin part. They should have made sure she actually was one and then find out she wasn't and have to scramble to insert a real one.


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Quoted from Blakkwolfe
Works as a horror comedy in the Evil Dead vein, with Marty and the control room guys being the main source of comedy. The zombie family could have been funny, too, especially if they reverted back to their old personalities.


That would have been brilliant.

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Father: Now Maw, ya'll go'an dispatch that purty lil' blondine an' me'n Matt'll work on taken' down them fellers...

Mother: Aw, The hell i will, Paw! Sides, I cain't run no fast since ya done pu' all these rawks in muh belly.

Father: Curse ya had ta bring that up...

Prudence and Matthew : (chanting) Jer-ry! Jer-ry!4


Could also have one of the kids be a mole for the corporation (like Ash in the original Alien). Thought they might have gone that route when someone says "I don't even think Curt has a cousin (who bought the cabin in the first place).

Also, none of the characters seem driven by anything substantial;
Jules wants to have more fun, Dana wants to forget about the married boyfriend, Marty wants to stay high and the boys want to get laid. Pretty weak in terms of heroic journey.
At least Tallahassee was on a quest to find the last twinkie (rule# 32...enjoy the little things.)

I think that this is a project that got greenlighted only because of the past history of the writers- if it was anyone else, probably wouldn't have gotten past the circular file. But, that's life.


Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently - Dove Chocolate Wrapper

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Grandma Bear
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T Joe,

you always got the southern twang down right!  


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Dreamscale
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Hmmm, what happened here?  Are we done already?  That didn't last too long...
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hmmm, what happened here?  Are we done already?  That didn't last too long...

We can go on and discuss this one if you want. What would you like to talk about?

Btw, I just read Hunting Humans (on the home page). I thought it was loads better than this one. I read it in one sitting. Didn't want to stop.

It reminded me about that HBO show (I think) about a serial killer. It was WGA registered in -99 so I wouldn't be surprised if they got some of their ideas from this script.

Lots and lots of V.O. but it work well. IMO.

It's sort of a cat and mouse game between two serial killers. It's a good read.  


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Dreamscale
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I'll discuss anything about it...I just wondered why no one else is saying much of anything.  Tough to have a discussion when no one is discussing.

Maybe it's a dead horse already...I don't know.
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bert
Posted: April 13th, 2012, 9:47am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Maybe it's a dead horse already...I don't know.


I usually lock up these script club threads once the discussion has died down.

This movie opens today, however, and I thought it might be fun to wake this thread back up.

I seem to recall that it was a very divided and contentious discussion, with lots of hate towards the script.

Some seriously considered the possibility that the script was one big joke on the script-reading community as a whole.

But the reviews for the film are largely positive.

Might be interesting to go back and revisit some of our opinions based upon what actually ended up on the screen.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!

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Pale Yellow
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I'm gonna go see it this weekend. Not sure I wanna read the script before I see it.
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James McClung
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Not sure if I want to cough up the cash to see this one. The script really drops the ball after the halfway mark and the ending was downright stupid and insulting. I've browsed the film's IMDB boards a fair amount in the weeks approaching its release and it seems these elements are very much in tact in the final product, ending speech and all. They even kept the merman, apparently... okay, that was actually kinda cool.

I think I've also had enough of meta horror at this point. Even in the brief two years since we had our Script Club, there's been something of a meta upheaval. Not sure I'm ready for another one just yet, especially from Joss Whedon or the Lost camp.


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jwent6688
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I was gonna resurrect this thread last night. Had no idea it was in Screenwriting class so I couldn't find it.

I'm blown away at the positive reviews of this so far. CNN.com review says its the best film of 2012 so far. I was one of the few who liked this and will probably plunk down the coin to go see it next week.

I certainly found the humor in this script and can see why everyone is raving about that aspect, but I never really found it scary. I guess this is where good film making comes into play because it supposedly offers some great scares.

It's horror, it's funny, I'm in.

James


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bert
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Quoted from jwent6688
I was one of the few who liked this and will probably plunk down the coin to go see it next week.


I kind of liked it, too, James.

But I could never really articulate WHY I liked it -- and in fact, I could see exactly why it deserved to be disliked so intensely.  So I did not participate in the discussion all that much.

If that makes any sense at all.

Still not sure I will spend a theater visit on this.  Will wait to hear what you and others have to say, probably.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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kingcooky555
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Anybody got a copy of the script? Would love to read it.

thanks.
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Dreamscale
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Don't jump to the conclusion that it's good or great, based on critic's reviews.

Based on what they're all saying, they find what I thought was terrible, to be great and fresh.  We'll see...

Personally, I think it looks like pure shit.
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jwent6688
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Quoted from Dreamscale almost two years ago
The critics will hate it and hopefully, so will the public.


Ha! And to add to your bitterness, I'll bet you a bottle of Jager plus shipping costs, it wins the Box Office this weekend. Nobody is going to see the fucken Stooges. I don't care if the Farrely brothers made it or not...

James



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Dreamscale
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Yep James, I did say that awhile back, and I'm shocked that the critics like this piece of crap.

I highly doubt it will win the weekend BO, though, as it opened in 2,811 theaters, while the Fuckin' Stooges is opening at 3,476 theaters, Lockout in 2,308 theaters...but...you've also got Hunger Games, Titanic 3D, and American Reunion still hoping to exceed $10 Million.

Of course, no one ever knows, but my bet is that Cabin comes in 3rd.

I wish I could bet you, but I just can't afoord it, sorry to say.
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kingcooky555
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Ok - got the script. Thanks all!
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Caught an afternoon screening of this today. A real mixed bag. There are some fun scenes, but this suffers from believing it's alot cleverer than it actually is. As a genre geek myself, 'cheeky' nods to Hellraiser and the Evil Dead caused a tired eye roll, and not a fanboy round of applause.

It's hard to criticize the plot holes, cos' the set up is silly from the get go so it's futile trying to dissect it on that level. All the characters are really bland. Stoner, slut, jock, prissy 'virgin' etc (there is a cameo from a certain legendary actress, which I'm not sure actually helped). Prodution values look DTV level for the most part. The CGI monsters are what you would expect. Also -- a common trend in modern mainstream 'horror'  -- an inability to light night scenes in an effective way. Alot of lazy assed 'scares'.  

I can't see myself ever going in for a second viewing. Not the worst thing I've seen, but that's like saying I've had worst kidnappers.

I havent read the script, I will take a look at it though out of interest.
  
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Dreamscale
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Basket, you may want to copy paste this post into a new thread under Movie reviews, to get it going.  There are many of us who are interested in hearing what people thought of this movie.

Considering it had a $30 Million budget 3 years ago, I'm surprised the FX weren't better.  I highly doubt I'll see it for myself, based on how much i hated the script.
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CoopBazinga
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Quoted from kingcooky555
Anybody got a copy of the script? Would love to read it.

thanks.


A bit late but same here if anybody has the script.

Thanks.
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Mr.Ripley
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Same as well.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Scar Tissue Films
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Interesting reading my comments from back then having seen the film.

My first post on here pretty much sums up the film. It's a very faithful adaptation.

The film isn't as good as the script IMO. Some fo the things I found funny in the script didn't work on the film and all the inherent weaknesses are still there.

Seems to have been a mega hit with critics and audiences alike. Interesting, at least.
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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
The film isn't as good as the script IMO. Some fo the things I found funny in the script didn't work on the film and all the inherent weaknesses are still there.

Seems to have been a mega hit with critics and audiences alike. Interesting, at least.


Rick, just because you "thought" something was funny on paper or would work on film, does not mean the script was better.  On the contrary, as I always say, one needs to picture how action and dialogue will work onscreen, when reading a script - and I knew immediately this thing was going to suck major asshole.

And, it was not a with audiences, as it came in 3rd for the weekend, behind a movie in its 4th week and another piece of shit in the 3 Fucking Stooges.

James, I'm waiting for my apology as well - as it finished exactly where I said it was going to.  Sure wish I could have afforded to back up that bet, as I knew it was almost a no lose situation.
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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Rick, just because you "thought" something was funny on paper or would work on film, does not mean the script was better.  On the contrary, as I always say, one needs to picture how action and dialogue will work onscreen, when reading a script - and I knew immediately this thing was going to suck major asshole.

And, it was not a with audiences, as it came in 3rd for the weekend, behind a movie in its 4th week and another piece of shit in the 3 Fucking Stooges.

James, I'm waiting for my apology as well - as it finished exactly where I said it was going to.  Sure wish I could have afforded to back up that bet, as I knew it was almost a no lose situation.


I think I'm aware of that Jeff!

There were moments in the script that were funny and could have been funny on film, but the timing was off and the delivery was off.

The film just seemed to miss all the beats.

But what do I know? Everybody seems to love it and thinks it's amazingly original with an incredible twist at the end...even though there isn't a single original idea in it and they repeatedly tell you what the "twist" is throughout the film.
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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
But what do I know? Everybody seems to love it and thinks it's amazingly original with an incredible twist at the end...even though there isn't a single original idea in it and they repeatedly tell you what the "twist" is throughout the film.


Rick, I don't mean to be patronizing or condescending, but I'll say again, just because a bunch of critics praise a movie, does not mean everyone loves it or that it is indeed great or whatever they're saying about it.  The true test will be how it holds up this coming week and next weekend, and my prediction is that it will flame out quickly and word of mouth will not be positive.

But what do I know?

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Grandma Bear
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I more and more believe that writers are extra critical because we read and comment and try to analyze scripts all the time. In my recent dealings with with production companies, I have been blown away by the stories that they want you to write. They told me the ideas were all so original and good, but in my mind they were all just horribly cliche. Maybe the general audience is of the same mind set as these producers?......


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Sandra Elstree.
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I more and more believe that writers are extra critical because we read and comment and try to analyze scripts all the time. In my recent dealings with with production companies, I have been blown away by the stories that they want you to write. They told me the ideas were all so original and good, but in my mind they were all just horribly cliche. Maybe the general audience is of the same mind set as these producers?......


Although I don't like to think so (that the general audience is of the same mind set as those producers), I have to acknowledge it at least as a half truth due to all of the rubbish that gets pumped out the general stream. *Note it's not a reference to this film because I haven't seen it though I have read the script.

The script (I think) was initially meant to be fun and games. The movie? I don't know. Did they revive all of the standard devices for a new generation? Maybe they did and they (the new generation audience) wouldn't get the inside jokes anyways. I don't know.

Someone needs to enlighten on this thread whether the movie played serious or not on the exterior.

Sandra



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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I more and more believe that writers are extra critical because we read and comment and try to analyze scripts all the time. In my recent dealings with with production companies, I have been blown away by the stories that they want you to write. They told me the ideas were all so original and good, but in my mind they were all just horribly cliche. Maybe the general audience is of the same mind set as these producers?......


I agree.

Part of it might simply come down to age.

The demographic of Cabin is going to be teenage boys, predominantly. Chances are they haven't seen any of the films Cabin steals from and parodies..Evil Dead, Hellraiser etc and they probably have never even heard of H.P. Lovecraft, so the big "Evil Sleeping Gods" ending seems like complete genius to them because they think Joss Wheedon has made it up.

If you're not aware that everything in the film has been lifted directly from somewhere else, it probably looks very creative.
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Scar Tissue Films
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Seeing as this is script club, one thing I will say is that Cabin in the Woods maybe does have some lessons for people working in the horror genre at the moment.

There seems to have been a very popular reaction to it based on the fact it's trying to make horror "fun" again.

Horror has been getting more and more brutal, more and more nihilistic and has been shrinking as a genre consequently....To a point that it's not enjoyable for many people to watch anymore...it's simply too much to bear.

The horror films that have done really well aren't that nasty.

I remember reading an introduction to a Gothic Horror short story collection where the editor spelled out the differnece between horrror and terror, saying that horror opened the mind, expanded it by looking at what's really important to humans in times of trouble and for instance, in a Lovecraftian sense, by looking beyond the confines of material reality and seeing the world in a different way.

Terror is a numbing sensation that shuts the brain down and traumatises you so you can't move or think...and this is essentially what's happened to the horror genre...it's become so terrifying that it's closed in on itself and offers nothing but brutality.
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jwent6688
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Quoted from Dreamscale
James, I'm waiting for my apology as well - as it finished exactly where I said it was going to.  Sure wish I could have afforded to back up that bet, as I knew it was almost a no lose situation.


Apologize for what? The fact that you wussed out and could have a nice gift coming in the mail right now? You were right, though. I'll admit that.

James



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Dreamscale
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
Seeing as this is script club, one thing I will say is that Cabin in the Woods maybe does have some lessons for people working in the horror genre at the moment.

There seems to have been a very popular reaction to it based on the fact it's trying to make horror "fun" again.

Horror has been getting more and more brutal, more and more nihilistic and has been shrinking as a genre consequently....To a point that it's not enjoyable for many people to watch anymore...it's simply too much to bear.

The horror films that have done really well aren't that nasty.


Rick, I'm not sure what you're smoking over there or where you're getting your info, so I thought I'd try and help you out with some real info, quote from Box Office Mojo, the source of all things box office related.

"The Cabin in the Woods opened in third place with an estimated $14.9 million. That pales in comparison to some of distributor Lionsgate's non-supernatural horror movies (most of the Saw series, My Bloody Valentine 3-D, and the first Hostel  movie), though in general it isn't a terrible start. In fact, among horror comedies, The Cabin in the Woods's debut ranks seventh all time behind the four Scary Movie flicks, Ghostbusters II and Zombieland.

The audience was 57 percent male and 65 percent over the age of 25, and they gave the movie an awful "C" CinemaScore. That score, along with the modest opening, is indicative of the challenges associated with selling satire (which Cabin in the Woods most definitely qualifies as). The title and stock characters (the jock, his girlfriend, the geek, the stoner, and the virgin) are intentionally generic, and from a cursory glance it would appear that the movie isn't even trying to be original. That probably kept the movie from reaching a larger audience, though the group that did show up was predominantly expecting a straightforward horror movie. By delivering something much different, the movie delighted a small group of audience members while generally frustrating those whose expectations were subverted. Moviegoers like to know what they are in for when they go to see a movie, and when it turns out to be something different the movie tends to get punished in exit polling."

Hope this makes a number of things clear - the movie did not fair well in its opening weekend of release.  The viewing audience was not young teen boys.  The audience was not happy with what they saw.

The movie will tank in its 2nd week, and end with a NABO somewhere right around its $30 Million Production budget.

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Dreamscale
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Quoted from jwent6688
Apologize for what? The fact that you wussed out and could have a nice gift coming in the mail right now? You were right, though. I'll admit that.


That's all I'm looking for.  I did not wuss out, BTW.  I literally cannot afford anything like this, as I'm struggling mightily.

I think you should send me that bottle for the Heck of it.  

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I for one hope that the film does better so that Hollywood might feel more inclined to take risks with horror movies, instead of releasing remake after remake or sequel after sequel of the same shit every year.    
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Baltis.
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Quoted from Ectoplasm
I for one hope that the film does better so that Hollywood might feel more inclined to take risks with horror movies, instead of releasing remake after remake or sequel after sequel of the same shit every year.    


Risk?  This movie is essentially the same shit we've all been subjected to for 30+ years... There was no risk with this puddle of pig piss.  It's just the same ol'shit all in one place.  
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Baltis.
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If you want to see a propper "parody" horror comedy, but done with keen precision on both horror and comedy... Check out Chop.  That movie is a perfect blend of both.  It takes several potshots at Saw and Hostel, but it's so, so, so much better.  The lead, guy who plays lance, is one to look out for.
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bert
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Quoted from Baltis.
If you want to see a propper "parody" horror comedy, but done with keen precision on both horror and comedy... Check out Chop.


Another good one in a similar vein is "Tucker and Dale vs. Evil".

If you are a fan of "teens in the woods" slasher-type flicks, there is no way you will not enjoy this total up-ending of the genre.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Quoted from Ectoplasm
I for one hope that the film does better so that Hollywood might feel more inclined to take risks with horror movies, instead of releasing remake after remake or sequel after sequel of the same shit every year.    


Ecto, I really don't know where you're coming from with these comments.  This is not a horror movie.  It may be marketed as a horror movie, and it may contain horror elements, but it is definitely not a horror movie.

And that's exactly why it received such a horrendous CinemaScore exit poll rating - it was not what it was marketed as.

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Dreamscale, it is as much of a horror movie as something like Shaun of the Dead. Lots of comedy, but it has it's jump scares and scenes of tension.  It's horror/comedy.
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Baltis.
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Interesting take on what is and isn't horror these days... I guess time has eroded the ground out from underneath "real" horror and now all we're left with is a vacant lot.  No trees, no landscaping... just a lagoon where the country club toilets are pipped to.

Would you all consider, say... Wax Work to be horror?  I'd say it's more horror than comedy, but it certainly has its moments of being both.  

Would you all consider Creepshow 1 and 2 to be horror?  Again, I'd say it's more horror, but certainly has both elements.

Cabin In The Woods had very little horror and way, way, way too much intrusive, forced comedy elements to be considered horror.  I'd put this one in the same category as The Ghost and Mr. Chicken.  
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Dreamscale
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OK, 1 by one - Ecto - Shaun of the Dead is not horror.  I don't care what anyone says.  It is obviously not horror and was not marketed as horror.

Stokes - Not sure who you are or why you're jumping in, but I can tell you based on the script of Cabin in the Woods, I despised it...passionately hated it.

Balt, I agree with each of your examples.  I have nothing against horror that has some humor in it.  In fact, I appreciate it.  Maybe peeps on the other side just don't understand how tone makes a total difference.
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Felipe
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Hey, I saw this movie and I'm 24! =D

I actually enjoyed it, but I would not say I was one of the people who was blown away by it. It was just fun. Definitely not horror.

It might have had a few horror moments, but overall it was just satire making fun of horror cliches as if all horror movies were made to appease the ancient gods.


'Artist' is not a term you should use to refer to yourself. Let others, and your work, do it for you.
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TheUsualSuspect
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I thought it was brilliant. It was a horror film about horror films. It was a great spin on the horror genre and it deconstructed the in the perfect way.

I may be a little biased as this type of script/film is targeted to me, it fits my style and likes perfectly. I'm a huge fan of Whedon and Buffy/Angel and this felt like it could have been right from one of those two shows. It has the same tone, story elements and style. It was a balancing act of different genres and it handled it very well. The cliched aspects of horror movies are clearly present, but they know have rhyme and reason to them. Again, it's the writer's love/hate letter to the horror genre.

I love the references to other horror films, the creativity in the creatures at the end. Yes, I was thinking to myself, why the hell would there be a purge button right there for anyone to push. If it were to be anywhere, at all, it would be in the control room right? I guess you could explain it as everyone needs a "back-up" or "fail-safe" and that was it. I forgave it cause the tone of the script and the amount of havoc it unleashes.

Again, this is the type of script that fits my likes perfectly and I think they nailed it.

-on a side note - the film is awesome. Haven't had that much fun at the movies in a long time.


A Picture Is Worth

If you want me to read your script, send me a link.
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TheUsualSuspect
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Rick, I don't mean to be patronizing or condescending, but I'll say again, just because a bunch of critics praise a movie, does not mean everyone loves it or that it is indeed great or whatever they're saying about it.  The true test will be how it holds up this coming week and next weekend, and my prediction is that it will flame out quickly and word of mouth will not be positive.

But what do I know?



It's a CULT film Dreamscale, CULT film. You cannot by any means justify the quality of the film based on any of the Box Office numbers. If that were the case, Fight Club is crap and Transformers is king. The TRUE TEST, it dvd sales. People who actually want to OWN the film.

I find it hilarious that people are saying this looks like PURE SHIT, when it's not the case. I think it has the right amount of elements in the film to make it original, despite what some jaded people here say. It's hard to be original in Hollywood and in Horror. They managed to do it in the way they nodded their head to the genre.

Finally, yes, it can be classified as horror, despite what the almighty one says.



A Picture Is Worth

If you want me to read your script, send me a link.

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TheUsualSuspect  -  April 29th, 2012, 2:51am
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jwent6688
Posted: April 29th, 2012, 5:51am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TheUsualSuspect
the film is awesome. Haven't had that much fun at the movies in a long time.


I saw it last week. I really enjoyed it, but I made the mistake of taking a gal who I usually only take to the artsy-fartsy type independent films. She thought it sucked.

I thought it played pretty true to the script. Special effects towards the end could've been better, was a bit hokey once the elevator doors start opening releasing all these monsters. And again, I complained about it after reading the script, why the fuck would an outfit like this have a "Purge" button to release all monsters?

Other than that, I really enjoyed it.

James



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Dreamscale
Posted: April 29th, 2012, 10:04am Report to Moderator
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[quote=TheUsualSuspect]It's a CULT film Dreamscale, CULT film. You cannot by any means justify the quality of the film based on any of the Box Office numbers. If that were the case, Fight Club is crap and Transformers is king. The TRUE TEST, it dvd sales. People who actually want to OWN the film.

I find it hilarious that people are saying this looks like PURE SHIT, when it's not the case. I think it has the right amount of elements in the film to make it original, despite what some jaded people here say. It's hard to be original in Hollywood and in Horror. They managed to do it in the way they nodded their head to the genre.

Finally, yes, it can be classified as horror, despite what the almighty one says. /quote]

Fight Club is crap.  No clue why anyone thinks otherwise.

Everyone has an opinion.  The proof is in the results.  Cabin will turn a profit, surprisingly, but it will also be viewed as a disappointment, and DVD/Blu Ray sales/rentals will not change that.

I think you gotta keep a number of things in mind here.  The movie was filmed in 2009 - that's 3 years ago, meaning the $30 Million budget was put up over 3 years ago.  That's alot of lost interest/return.  Marketing and word of mouth have been quite large and expensive.  The results are a failure.  The word of mouth from the paying audience is a disaster.

This thing will appeal to a certain mentality of a fanboy, and if that happens to be you, Usual, that's great.  Sit through it a few more times, as they need the BO monies badly, and you can see how it holds up to repeat viewings.

The Almighty has spoken.

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nawazm11
Posted: April 29th, 2012, 10:16am Report to Moderator
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I should give the script a read sometime, see what the fuss is about!

Also,

Quoted from Dreamscale
Fight Club is crap.  No clue why anyone thinks otherwise.


Oh! I really have to disagree with you here. That movie was mind blowing (see what I did there? ). Some people might see it as the average flick, but to classify it as crap? After all the crap that's shown in cinemas these days?



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nawazm11  -  April 29th, 2012, 4:50pm
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jwent6688
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Sorry Jeff, I thought Fight Club rocked. You WILL find yourself on an island with that argument...

James


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Dreamscale
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Quoted from jwent6688
Sorry Jeff, I thought Fight Club rocked. You WILL find yourself on an island with that argument...James


I know, but at least it's my little island.

I've tried time and time again to get through Fight Club, and haven't made it yet.  It's 1 of those movies that really turns me off, and I find it incredibly irritating and grating.

I know it's a much loved film and that fine and cool.  Ain't my cup of tea.

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B.C.
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Interesting that people think this is a 'cult' film. One that came about two weeks ago, produced and written by one of the most powerful people in Hollywood and has been marketed and distributed globally.

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TheUsualSuspect
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Fight Club is crap.  No clue why anyone thinks otherwise.


You mentioned how you've never finished the flick. I don't understand how you can make that statement and then say that you've never finished it and don't see why people love it.


Quoted Text
Everyone has an opinion.  The proof is in the results.  Cabin will turn a profit, surprisingly, but it will also be viewed as a disappointment, and DVD/Blu Ray sales/rentals will not change that.


Incorrect. Almost every Kevin Smith flick makes profit from the DVD sales. He has a cult following. Whedon does as well, which is why Serenity did better in DVD sales than in theatres. Cabin will do the same.


Quoted Text
This thing will appeal to a certain mentality of a fanboy, and if that happens to be you, Usual, that's great.  Sit through it a few more times, as they need the BO monies badly, and you can see how it holds up to repeat viewings.


Sit through it once and I'll start listening to what you have to say.

Onto Basketcase (hate that movie  )

How is Whedon one of the most powerful people in Hollywood? All but one of his TV shows was canceled and his big screen adaptation of Firefly didn't perform well at the boxoffice. He landed The Avengers gig, which is getting good reviews and WILL make lots of money, but this does not make him a powerful player in Hollywood. It makes him a powerful player among the audience.

So for a film to be considered a cult film, it can't be released by "Hollywood Studio Type People"? That's a stretch.



A Picture Is Worth

If you want me to read your script, send me a link.
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Dreamscale
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Quoted from TheUsualSuspect
You mentioned how you've never finished the flick. I don't understand how you can make that statement and then say that you've never finished it and don't see why people love it.


Dude, I've tried.  I've tried at least 5 times, and it's so irritating an weak, I bale.




Quoted from TheUsualSuspect
Incorrect. Almost every Kevin Smith flick makes profit from the DVD sales. He has a cult following. Whedon does as well, which is why Serenity did better in DVD sales than in theatres. Cabin will do the same.


We'll see.  I realize serenity sold some 2 million DVD's, but that was back in 2006, when downloading wasn't nearly what it is today.  It's also really tough to get a real gauge on what selling 2 million units really means in terms of returns to the movie (Production team, whatever).  Obviously, a $20 sale doesn't equate to $20 for the Producer or Distributor.

But then again, it's totally unclear what $60 Million in WW Box Office revenue really means for a $30 Million Production.  I really wish there was a way to figure the whole thing out, but I doubt that will ever happen.

We can both have out own thoughts on the success or failure of a given movie, but at the end of the day, I highly doubt any movie insiders will say they're happy with Cabin's theatrical performance.


Quoted from TheUsualSuspect
Sit through it once and I'll start listening to what you have to say.


Son as it hits DVD, I'll give it a view, but if it plays out anythign remotely like Zombieland or Shaun of the Dead, I can guarantee you I'll fucking hate it.

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B.C.
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Whedon's pretty damn powerful, Usual. The fact that stuff like Dollhouse makes it anywhere near a TV screen is an indicator of how much sway he has.

I'm not a hater, btw. I like some of his stuff.



Quoted from TheUsualSuspect


So for a film to be considered a cult film, it can't be released by "Hollywood Studio Type People"? That's a stretch.

  

Hmm, Bit of selective quoting going on there. While a Hollywood Studio movie can eventually become a 'cult film', are opinions and what makes a 'cult film' are very different.

In general thought a Cult Film was something that gained popularity over time, usually against the odds (The original Wicker Man, Rocky Horror) Sometimes mainstream films (like Showgirls) become cult in that 'so bad it's good' way. Or exceptionally low budget backyard films like The Evil Dead are cult for obvious reasons.

I don't see Cabin in the Woods being a part of things like that, but that's just me.



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TheUsualSuspect
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There's an old saying that is "Anyone can get a show on TV, it's keeping it on the air, that's the hard part".

I love Whedon, Buffy is my favourite television show of all time, I think what he accomplished with it is genius. I love Angel and Firefly, the film Serenity and yes, Cabin in the Woods. I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan.

But to say he's one of the most powerful people in Hollywood? No chance in hell. After the Avengers, he'll definitely have some power, but still not as much as you'd think.


A Picture Is Worth

If you want me to read your script, send me a link.
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Dreamscale
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Quoted from TheUsualSuspect
I love Whedon, Buffy is my favourite television show of all time, I think what he accomplished with it is genius. I love Angel and Firefly, the film Serenity and yes, Cabin in the Woods. I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan.




I despise each and every one of those.  Different strokes, again.  It makes the world go 'round.  Now I see how we're on different islands completely.

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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: April 30th, 2012, 10:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TheUsualSuspect


I love Whedon, Buffy is my favourite television show of all time, I think what he accomplished with it is genius. I love Angel and Firefly, the film Serenity and yes, Cabin in the Woods. I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan.


Was at the Calgary Comic-con aka: The Calgary Comic and Entertainment Expo:

Global Calgary News - Expo Underway

...and According to James Marsters, you don't argue with Joss Whedon. I guess that's kind of like: YOU DON'T ARGUE WITH MICHAEL CORNETTO. (Tee-hee... Or Sandra Elstree...  )

I'll attempt to start a thread with portions of the Expo and with any luck, I'll post Marster's comments on Joss as recorded by a fortunate fan loading to youtube.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Baltis.
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2 million dvd sales + stacked up against ww install base + at most a 15 dollar price tag = poor performance no matter how you try and skew it.

on another note:  saw a guy buying MIP gp the otherday... He asked his wife "hey, do we have this in the collection"  she returned with "not the special edition" and he bought it.  

This  is how hollywood recoups.  And it's sad.
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 30th, 2012, 10:23pm Report to Moderator
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What is MIP, BTW?

It is sad, Balt, I agree, but I am all for Hollywood or whatever you want to call it making all they can an anything.  I hate the fact that so many ripoff the system or movies or music.  Pure BS, IMO.
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TheUsualSuspect
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Yeah, what the heck is MIP?


A Picture Is Worth

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Baltis.
Posted: April 30th, 2012, 10:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
What is MIP, BTW?

It is sad, Balt, I agree, but I am all for Hollywood or whatever you want to call it making all they can an anything.  I hate the fact that so many ripoff the system or movies or music.  Pure BS, IMO.


Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol.  Tryin' to cheat and make it easier on myself.   (phone)   

Yeah, stealin' is somethin' I never got into.  My buddies, when 100gb service dropped in our area, they all got it and lapped it up... I never understood the quanity over quality rationale.  If I like something, I'll buy it.  I don't wanna steal it... And if I hate something, you won't see me burning up bandwidth to take it, and you damn sure won't see my money.  

Piracy also diminishes your taste in things I feel.  The more you steal, the less you enjoy of whatever it is you're stealing.  I had a buddy, back in like 2001 or 2, he had like every damn emulator ever -- Games too.  

I was like, why?  Why do you need them?  Do you play them?  He said, no.  Hell no.  How could I play them all?

That, way back then, solidified and sums up my feelings on the matter.  There is a such thing as digital hording I believe... and some of these people have it.
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