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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  CUT TO Moderators: George Willson
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Forgive
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 4:47pm Report to Moderator
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Let The Sky Fall

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Quoted from Pale Yellow


  Be careful or I'm gonna go Charlie's Angels on ya!



You know there are guys that will pay for that kind of thing...??

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Forgive
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 5:01pm Report to Moderator
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Let The Sky Fall

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Quoted from leitskev
Things were getting a little dull here. We need a good donnybrook once in a while! Good show. ... In any case, I'm an amateur, I'll sit back and watch the battle. Anyone scoring this bout?


You clearly don't understand the rules of conflict.

Making a number of well-though out arguments in a reasonable manner, won't get a fight started.

Instead try:

Bigging yourself up;
Insulting people;
Championing flawed perspectives;
Demonstrating how little you know about you subject whilst telling other people how to master it.

Please rethink and re-post. >
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jwent6688
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 5:41pm Report to Moderator
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Wherever I go, there Jwent.

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Quoted from Dreamscale


If you're talking about Mini Slugs, I'd disagree with you here, Kevan.  There was a time when I too thought this way, but I changed my opinion years ago.

For me, Mini Slugs should be used when you are "tracking" through some sort of structure, like a house or building, from 1 room to another.  Reads so much cleaner and for me at least, infers that you are indeed doing this in a single tracking shot, as in you're following a character's movement.

Most writers use Mini Slugs completely incorrectly, and I constantly bring it up.  You'll hear writers in here continually saying they don't need a time frame in their Slug, and sometimes not even INT. or EXT., which I totally disagree with.



Ha, never thought I'd see the day when Jeff defends mini/sub slugs of any kind. I've already had this debate with Jeff and we agree to disagree. Whereas he sees them as some kind of tracking shot through an interior structure, I don't. I use them all the time inside of a structure, but never thought that implies to the director that the character in the scene needs to be followed into the next room by the camera.

Two commonly used minis...

UNDERWATER - Can't say it's INT. or EXT.

LATER - when you don't leave the scene and want to show time has passed. ie...

INT. BAR - NIGHT

The bartender hands JAMES a beer.

LATER

JAMES sits in front of a half-dozen empty bottles.

Neither of those minis track anything. But, IMO, are acceptable. And will continue to be in my writing.

I don't make too much of these debates, because they rarely change anyone's mind. I know I won't change Jeff's. I'm comfortable with my use of mini slugs because it's consistent. AS long as you're consistent, no matter which way you go, it's hard for someone to come up and say you're absolutely wrong about your use of them...

James, minus the six beers...





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leitskev
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 6:04pm Report to Moderator
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Sci, I am not sure what you are saying. Are you addressing those statements toward me? Or was that sarcasm? I don't think I insulted anyone. Not intentionally. If I championed flawed perspectives, well, possibly, but I did state up front I am an amateur, and a pretty new amateur at that.

I certainly don't suggest anyone follow my advice blindly. And even though others here have been doing this a lot longer, I don't recommend following their advice blindly either.

I make one recommendation: read scripts, especially spec scripts, that have been recently optioned. Whatever works in those scripts should be the model. Screen writing has only been around a hundred years. Format and convention are still evolving. It may be that what was the norm 10 or 20 years ago has changed. The evidence I see in scripts that are being optioned suggests to me that it has.

Perhaps my position will change after I've been doing this longer, but my current approach is to go as much as possible with what logic dictates. That means minislugs, LATER, MOMENTS LATER, OUTSIDE, selective underlining, and selective capitalization. I'm very comfortable with this decision, actually.
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leitskev
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 6:08pm Report to Moderator
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James, yeah, absolutely use LATER.

I've read it in scripts, and read current experts describe it as acceptable. But more important....it is logical!

What is the alternative? A brand new big old slug, and having to describe the set up again? God, how tedious...for the reader. And a waste of lines. It simply makes no sense.

LATER keeps the eye moving down. Vertical reading. Perfect clarity. Logic.
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Forgive
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 6:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
Sci, I am not sure what you are saying.


I was jesting - no offence intended.

I agree with what you have to say - I think the story and the format should be best buddies - aiding and abetting each other, and working in harmony.

I also think mini's are very useful for changing the tempo in a particular piece, as you can speed up the read.

As per reading scripts - I've seen produced scripts play it both ways, one full slugs for  a new room, and another using mini's - writer's choice really. I'm sure guys at the top argue over stuff like this.

And as with everything in scripts it has to be lean - if it does no harm and you can cut it, then it's best cut, if it can't be cut without distracting the read, then minimalise it - my understanding is it's best in its most lean form.

Simon

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leitskev
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 7:02pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Simon

I agree with everything you said except guys arguing at the top over this. They could care less about slugs. They discuss story. They discuss the images, what kind of film they would make. They discuss whether the characters will appeal to actors.

They do appreciate lean, from everything I've read. That doesn't mean sparse, it means efficient. It means no scenes or dialogue are unnecessary as well. There's room for a bit of color and style, as long as it doesn't slow anything down. the script should make them see a movie in their head.

I think. And yup, I'm a rookie, don't take my word.
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stevie
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 7:36pm Report to Moderator
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I don't consider scriptwriting to be a 'craft'. A craft to me is learning to play music or painting or sculpting.

i've always a bit of talent with words and wrting. In 2008 I got a computer for the first time.
I discovered Celtx and decided to try putting my ideas for stories into screenplay form.

Then i discovered SS. I read some scripts, learned a bit, posted my own first efforts. over the last 3 years I have had a great time, meeting new people around the world, swapping scripts, reading, the OWCs, etc.

I've read a few screenwriting help books but not the major ones that seem popular. When I start a new script, I don't work out the 'act sequence' or anything.

I'm nearly finished a new comedy feature in which I tried a different style - I have swearing in the action lines, heaps of Aussie slang, etc. Wanted to inject some flair into my writing. The story is still there. Thats all that matters to me.

I just start writing.  Anyway, just my two bob's worth!

I always remember a qoute by Stephen King about his own work:

IT IS THE TALE, NOT HE WHO TELLS IT...



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leitskev
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 7:42pm Report to Moderator
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2008 Stevie? Man, Australia's a little behind, huh? You guys are gonna love cell phones!  

What's the new script about?
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mcornetto
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 7:44pm Report to Moderator
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And just to put my two cents into this thread....


There are no rules so don't break them.

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stevie
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 8:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
2008 Stevie? Man, Australia's a little behind, huh? You guys are gonna love cell phones!  

What's the new script about?


About 30 odd pages at the mo, with another 35 handwritten to copy onto the computer. Then I'll finish it up.

Its an Aussie comedy about a guy whose wife leaves him, he's diagnosed with a terminal illness AND he finds out Paul McCartney has cancelled his Aussie tour. All in the space of 20 minutes at the pub on a Friday night.

Yeah, we didn't a comp in our household till 2008. we had other priorities, with young kids and stuff.




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leitskev
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 8:27pm Report to Moderator
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Sounds original. Talk about a rough night at the pub!
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 8th, 2012, 8:41pm Report to Moderator
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Good to see some various viewpoints here...and good to see that Kevin is alive and well - I was worried.

James, just to clarify, yes, I do feel that "actual" Mini Slugs invoke or infer a tracking shot, but then again, when I say "actual" Mini's, I'm referring to a 1 word Slug that's lead into with something like...

James stumbles into the...

SHITTER

...where he proceeds to yak up the nine Old Style Lights he just slammed.

As I said, I love using "LATER" as a Mini Slug, but that obviously does not invoke any action, just passing time.

And I totally agree with my mate Stevie.  You write a good story...you don't fucking worry about what page this or that happens.  Hogwash.  But if that's what you need to write a script, more power to ya.

What happened to Kevan?  Is he working on some Galactic Sausage, or Charming Old Men?  
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leitskev
Posted: February 9th, 2012, 3:42pm Report to Moderator
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http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/

This is an interview with a writer who has recently made it. He had been writing for years, was not marketing himself at all, and was working at a clothing factory. He managed through a friend to get a manager to like his script and represent him. Couple of weeks later he sold his spec script, and sold two more shortly after that.

Reason I posted here were was his comments on structure. He hates Snyder and the STC beat sheets. But he makes a great point that I had never heard before. These beat sheets are used by studio initiated projects because they begin as team efforts. Spec scripts don't need them, and might be hampered by them.

Also, he worked as a script reader for 3 years, and never gave any consideration to structure. All he cared about was 2 things: that a script not be terrible, and that it not be boring.

I think structure is useful, but one should be careful about painting by the numbers. I definitely think it's crazy to be too constrained by the need to have act turns and inciting incidents on certain pages. If one chooses to do that, fine and well, but I don't think in reading others scripts that kind of thing should be used too much as a measuring stick.

Enjoy the day, everyone!
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 9th, 2012, 5:50pm Report to Moderator
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That's a great post and I for one am very happy to hear this, as I agree 100%.
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