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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Format, format, format Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    Format, format, format  (currently 2430 views)
alffy
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 3:02am Report to Moderator
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I wasn't sure if this is the right place or even whether to bring this is up, especially after other threads about reviews have brought out a few arguments but it's been niggling me.

Firstly I'll admit that my format and grammar needs work but sometimes I feel baffled by the contrasting suggestions on what's right and what's wrong when it comes to correct format.  Some people will tell a writer that you should never do this and you you should do it like this but then a fellow review will tell you otherwise. The whole thing leaves me confused and constantly changing descriptions to try and find a medium.  Is it just me that can't seem to please everyone?

After that long winded thought my questions is shorter and simpler: Does it just come down to personal preference or are there some solid stone do's and don't's?

I will add that I do appreciate all comments on my scripts as I am still learning to do things better and I hold no grudges against people who suggest I do things differently.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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alffy
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 3:10am Report to Moderator
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Perhaps I should add that there's a script in the horror section now getting some good feedback but many would argue it's over written. Is too much attention paid to format and not enough to story?


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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mcornetto
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 3:31am Report to Moderator
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What's right is what's clear to you and those who read it.

There is a basic format you need to follow to ensure that your screenplay comes out at approx 1 page per minute.  That is precisely why it was created and it is called "studio format".  Pretty much anything else is invention.  

If you're going to independents or writing shorts then format really isn't going to be a tremendous issue with anyone interested in making it.  You just have to have it look enough like a screenplay for them to read it.

If you are shopping your script to agents or studios then you should use a format closely based on this sample format script.  There's variations but they are minor.  

http://www.oscars.org/awards/nicholl/scriptsample.pdf

If you are writing for television then all bets are off.  Television formats vary greatly - a number of shows use their own format.  And the BBC format is different than the American format.  

However, all screenplay and teleplay formats are derived from "studio format" and strive to present their information at approx 1 page per minute.  
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Baltis.
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 3:42am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy
Is too much attention paid to format and not enough to story?


Of course it is -- If your format is off then the story won't flow properly.  The format is the very first thing most people will notice...  

If it's good, fluid, strong or appealing then the story will come through and work in tandem with the format.

If your format is off, weak, sloppy, wonky, ballz... then the story is going to have a tough time breaking through to the reader.  

Screenwriting is a balancing act.  You have to have a decent format and a decent story to make a good script worth reading/making/producing.
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Eoin
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 3:43am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy
Perhaps I should add that there's a script in the horror section now getting some good feedback but many would argue it's over written. Is too much attention paid to format and not enough to story?


Overly written is  different issue to format. Format, is a template, blueprint or standard method of expressing the visual medium of storytelling that is film, in a written manner.

If something is overly written, then there is far too much action description, description that does not add to the visuals on screen (but may make the story clearer to the reader) or action description that includes unfilmables. The balance between white on the page and text will also look off.

Overly written produced scripts are generally a product from writer/directors who do not have to follow the rules a spec writer does.



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mcornetto
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 3:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Baltis.

Of course it is -- If your format is off then the story won't flow properly.  The format is the very first thing most people will notice...  


No offence Balt but I think you are confusing format with structure.

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Baltis.
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 4:12am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mcornetto


No offence Balt but I think you are confusing format with structure.



I always tend to overlap the two.  I know structure deals in organization and format deals in how it's all laid out -- but to me, as I said, they tend to overlap and blur from time to time.  

If a script isn't formatted properly, well laid out, the story won't come through for me because I'm going to be hung up on the way it's presented... I won't even have a chance to get to how the story is structured.
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ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 4:19am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy

Firstly I'll admit that my format and grammar needs work but sometimes I feel baffled by the contrasting suggestions on what's right and what's wrong when it comes to correct format.  Some people will tell a writer that you should never do this and you you should do it like this but then a fellow review will tell you otherwise. The whole thing leaves me confused and constantly changing descriptions to try and find a medium.  Is it just me that can't seem to please everyone?

Don't try and please everyone.  yeah,i popped open your script real quick, your format is fine.  If I'm off base here, then please ignore this...

I can't help but wonder if your're talking about the use of certain things... like ly or ing words for example.  Stuff like that.


Ghostie



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mcornetto
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 4:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Baltis.


I always tend to overlap the two.  I know structure deals in organization and format deals in how it's all laid out -- but to me, as I said, they tend to overlap and blur from time to time.  

If a script isn't formatted properly, well laid out, the story won't come through for me because I'm going to be hung up on the way it's presented... I won't even have a chance to get to how the story is structured.


Fair enough.  I agree.  A screenplay should always look like a screenplay.
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CoopBazinga
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 4:25am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy
Is it just me that can't seem to please everyone?


Short answer, Yes!


Quoted from alffy
I hold no grudges against people who suggest I do things differently.


I hope not.

As someone who is new to screenwriting and only written one short, I can understand your frustration. I believe that while some format techniques should be in every script a lot of it IMO is personal preference and that is why you always see so much contrasting feedback from people which isn't a bad thing.

I think you need to take very suggestion on board and then use what works for you and your writing style.

Story is obviously key but if you have tons of formatting mistakes in the first ten pages then a lot of readers aren’t going to make it past that point, doesn’t matter how good your story is.

Just my views.

All the best.

Steve
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Andrew
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 4:32am Report to Moderator
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Your format is absolutely fine, alf. And your scripts The Chocolatier and Pub Lunch (if my memory serves me correct on name) are good. You've got talent. You got format and structure down. So no need to worry.

The question is really just a variation on what 'the rules' are. Just read lots of produced scripts to take on board the style and use your own voice and you're good.


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leitskev
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 7:17am Report to Moderator
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Alffy

I think it's fairly clear that what is considered acceptable in regards to format is not only somewhat flexible, but is evolving. One thing you can do is get your hands on spec scripts that have recently been optioned. You'll see there is some diversity of format, and you'll see that what's being used by people selling scripts is pretty different than what many consider "the rules".

I think when in doubt, it helps to apply logic and common sense. What will make things clearer to the reader? What will do this most efficiently?

Definitely try to get your hands on some recently optioned scripts. PM me if you'd like to look at some.
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alffy
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 7:47am Report to Moderator
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Cheers for all the advice guys. Maybe I should have been a bit clearer though on some of my argument, and maybe 'format' wasn't the right word either? Mainly I've noticed, and not just with my scripts, that reviews often comment that descriptions should be written differently and certain words shouldn't be used. This is fine and good advice but then other reviews will tell you differently what should and shouldn't be used, frankly I find it rather confusing lol.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 8:24am Report to Moderator
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It depends on the person's tastes. But, if it gets sold or optioned, then follow the buyers way.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: February 20th, 2012, 9:05am Report to Moderator
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I agree it's confusing, and there remains a clear discrepancy between what's acceptable in pro circles and what people believe on websites like this.

Someone says something is unaccpetable and over time it becomes part of a websites culture that these things are wrong...when it's not necessarily the case.

There is also confusion over certain things...such as what is unfilmmable and what isn't.

Character directions, for instance are NOT unfilmmable, and are perfectly fine to use.

It's perfectly acceptable to say things like "He clearly doesn't understand" rather than having to type the mechanical "He looks confused".

I notice I get pulled up on this quite a bit in reviews...but it's a conscious choice I have made to prevent actors reading the script "representing" emotions and not genuinely feeling them within the boundaries of their character.

Basically if you tell an actor to look confused...they will simply wrinkle their foreheads or whatever...if you leave it open as to their specific reaction they can choose something more interesting...maybe they nod and pretend they agree, and then cast a slight look of confusion afterwards...or just smile numbly...whatever. I just don't like to set something in stone when there may be a better way of doing it.

As you've said, there's a difference between format and style. There's an increasing tendency to want to see everything written in a lean, fast paced style....but not every film is lean or fast paced. The style of the script should reflect the style and pace of the story. A slow burning, intense character portrait should not necessarily be written at the same breathtaking speed as a vacuous action script.

There's also going to be different needs in different scripts. The script you mention in the horror section creates a futuristic world...one that doesn't exist. Simple logic dictates that you're going to need more words to describe completely fabricated items, locations, fashions etc etc than if your story is set in a contemporary location.  
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