Quoted from Conz Well if you take the point I'm trying to make... this is the same thing.  Why is it necessary?  It's the last page.  The last line of dialogue has been spoken.  Are you telling me readers are gonna stop and say "Wait?  This scene just stopped mid page on page 110, am I missing more?  That seemed like closure, but where is the "FADE OUT?!"

In a word. YES. That's what they are likely to think.

Conz, it's not necessary. But then, neither is wearing pants when doing the gardening...

But it pisses people off when you don't. And you can also cut off your balls before you have even started.

I'm talking about feature-length scripts.  

Obviously, if it's a five page contest then, you know...I'm sure they are more chilled out.  

But if you ever send a feature to a reader/producer/whatever... just put it in. The reasons for NOT putting in aren't good enough to have your script KO'd over two tiny words.

If you're gonna buck tradition, make sure the stuff in between Fade in and Fade out kicks Shakespeare's arse.

Personally, I'll write wrylies on every dialoge, cut fade ins and fade outs when I've written a $100M blockbuster or won an Oscar/Emmy. For features, it's a battle not worth fighting. Any and every reader looks for any excuse to pass a script over. I'd rather live and die with the narrative rather than take my chances over two words...

Quoted from Conz i abide by all the stupid rules that Person A says are correct and Person B says are BS.  You're points are fine, but do you agree they're absolutely ridiculous?  #2 especially?

I'll answer your question this way, since I'm assuming that you're still a fairly young dude - as you get older you'll discover that the only rebels who aren't starving are those with money and connections...

AJR

Quoted from Conz i abide by all the stupid rules that Person A says are correct and Person B says are BS.  You're points are fine, but do you agree they're absolutely ridiculous?  #2 especially?

It is ridiculous but it's a ridiculous business.  I guarantee you if you eliminate all the fade in's that someone at some point is going to be confused because there's no FADE IN:.  It's all interpretation and people interpret things in all sorts of different ways.  My script Addiction has a terrific scene where the teenage dork hero and the evil webmaster confront one another.  It's one of my favorite scenes in the script.  When someone produced it a few years back the finished product had that entire scene as an instant message conversation with voiceover.  When I asked why it turned out that way I got the response "I thought that's what it was supposed to be." There was nothing in that scene indicating it was supposed to be an IM chat.  Maybe there wasn't enough action going on, who knows.

In short, I'd first get a few winners under your belt and develop your name before you start tinkering with this kind of stuff.  I don't disagree with what you're saying, but the Fade In/Fade Out is something, I think, you shouldn't mess with unless you're under contract with Paramount or something.

"Your movie must start with FADE IN.  It must.   Don't question why, just practice it and do it.  Don't think you can change the industry with your wild, zany idea's because your script is just that good.  Odds are it'll only be good enough to line a trash can or birdcage."

Paraphrasing, but yeah... Something to that extent.  

Quoted from Conz Call me a rebel, call me an ignorant fool.

You're an ignorant foolish rebel...



Don't know why someone hasn't done so eariler in this thread.

LOL

Shawn.....><

I think I'll continue writing FADE IN. Don't wanna give anyone a reason to put my script down before they read the first line

I do color out of the lines, but still gonna put my FADE IN ...in.

Three out of the four scripts I got produced or are in production (most are in post-production), I didn't use a FADE IN:.  People'll still read it if there's no fade in.  People'll still film it if there's no fade in.  If anything, the director'll just go behind your back and start it out with a fade in anyway.  You won't get penalized as much as people are saying.  (Maybe you will for contests, but I don't write to join contests.)

I didn't not put FADE IN: to be a rebel or anything, but because of a much simpler explanation...  I didn't want the story to fade in.  If I have a nice, scenic establishing shot as the opener, yeah, I'll use a FADE IN: and love how beautiful and tranquil it is.  But if I open the story in mid-conversation, wanting to get straight to the point and first actions of a story, I'll go straight to the slug.

As for the argument 'People will think the scene is happening over a black screen.'...  Well, the slug EXT. HOLLYWOOD BEACH BOARDWALK should clearly tell the reader the scene is not happening over a black screen.

And if someone doesn't read my story because there's no fade in, no hard feelings.  They can go on and read and find comfort in the cliches of some Blake Snyder-generated screenplay while I'll go on doing what's best for my story.

I like using Fade In's and I'm not going to avoid them, but I like not using them, also, for specific circumstances.  As I've written my stories so far, I feel very comfortable about knowing when to use FADE IN: and when not to.

Demonstrating that you can execute structure and rules is key with cold networking.
It's a building block that indicates you're not oblivious to the industry.
Once you've got some back and forth and they like your style... who cares?

Then it becomes about finding reasons to work together for mutual gain.
Give them the script they need so they'll use their contacts/resources for you.

But never estimate how executing an industry standard script helps first contacts.
It's the first best indicator of whether or not to continue netowrking with you.

My personal experience two cents. *plink*

E.D.

good discussion.

Quoted from Conz good discussion.

A group of amateur screenwriters debating about whether or not to use FADE IN: ?

Pretty fucking stupid discussion.

I don't read your shit anyways and all you do is pop in to talk about your "rebel" self. Good for you, send me your address and I'll mail you a cookie.

James

Quoted from jwent6688 A group of amateur screenwriters debating about whether or not to use FADE IN: ? Pretty fucking stupid discussion. I don't read your shit anyways and all you do is pop in to talk about your "rebel" self. Good for you, send me your address and I'll mail you a cookie.

I have to agree with this.  I've made several posts and none were acknowledged.  You're on your own now, Conz, as far as I'm concerned.

After re-reading this guys post on the matter it's become clear he should be writting books or plays; not screenplays.  What I think you should do, personally, is pay Adam Levenberg 500 bucks to check your script out... Don't include them in your draft, and then wait for his call.  He does that.  He will call you.  And then when he ask why you abandoned certain stapples, you can tell him you're a rebel and then proceed to ask him why you need them.  

He will then tell you

1.  It's tradition.  It tells us, this is a screenplay, not a novel.  Think of placing the words Fade in on your page the screenplay equivalent to once upon a time in a fairy tale.

2.  It creates white on the 1st and last pages.

3.  The ptb like to see it.  They make the rules.

If you don't like fade in, fine... Whatever.  But until you sell a million dollar script, i'd learn to live with it and then, after your millions, divorce it.  

Better safe than sorry.

I wanna be a rebel too....

I`m gonna take Fade in... out and Fade out... out.
And also I'm gonna take the title page out.... I don't like it, it takes up a whole page!
I am also gonna take out all my characters names... names are overrated.
Dialogue has to go, it makes no sense... What is dialogue really? just stupid conversation.
The action... Don't get me started on the action...You just don't need it, people don't need to be doing stuff.

So that's it,  I just forwarded by masterpiece blank page to Universal Studios.... fingers crossed.
OH SHIT I forgot to copyright it.... Oh yeah that`s overrated too.



Mark

Quoted from Baltis. 1.  It's tradition.  It tells us, this is a screenplay, not a novel.  Think of placing the words Fade in on your page the screenplay equivalent to once upon a time in a fairy tale.

I love when Balt's around, because he sums this shit up so much better than I.

James