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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Good Reading-50 dead giveaways you are an amateur. Moderators: George Willson
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  Author    Good Reading-50 dead giveaways you are an amateur.  (currently 4140 views)
DS
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 12:55pm Report to Moderator
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Oh, guess the mobile version isn't free. Should have figured out that was what you meant from the previous mention of an iPad, my bad! Yeah, that's definitely not hefty and is easily worth it for a mobile device.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 1:04pm Report to Moderator
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I use Celtx. It's free. I also like how I can go from scene to scene just by clicking. I also like how if I forget a character's name I can check that too. But I have a small white board anyway that I used to use when I wrote in Open Office. I make notes on it so I don't lose track of where I am.

I think the competitions are worth entering. I didn't believe so at first, but after nearly winning a couple and having my script sent around lots of production companies it has been worth it. No bites yet, but it's early days. Plus it's with a script that is fairly controversial so I'm not expecting much, but you never know.

Celtx does cost $4.99 on tablets and phones.
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Stumpzian
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 1:16pm Report to Moderator
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Dustin: Thanks for the info. And now I understand the Celtx reference in your earlier post.



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Grandma Bear
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 6:30pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo
No -ING verbs.[/b]

I didn't know anything about writing when I started. I wasn't even very good at English (I'm Swedish). Grammar and spelling is something I have got a lot better at thanks to SS members feedback.

In the early going, -06, I was told not to use ing words. Try to avoid the word "and". And so on. Things have changed a lot since then, but I'm still stuck in that way of writing. People usually tell me my scripts are fast reads though, so maybe there was something to those "rules"? Now I just need to work on writing better stories. A completely different animal...  


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wonkavite
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 8:37pm Report to Moderator
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Honestly?  I really like Final Draft.  Not fond of the price, but we already owned it when I started writing. So - for me - it was free.

I dabbled with Celtx, but didn't feel like dealing with the learning curve (which is probably pretty small) since I already knew FD.

But I would assume what's already been stated is right.  As long as the formatting's fine, why would FD be any better or worse?  It *is* useful for generating certain cast reports that I've been asked for from time to time.  Don't know if Celtx has comparable ones.

And... I HAVE once or twice been asked for an FDX file.  (Spec work for a producer).  Don't know if Celtx can export that...?

But I really have never seen a use for most of FD's bells and whistles.  It's just that I'm familiar with the program, so it's my personal go-to....
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wonkavite
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 8:39pm Report to Moderator
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And... Johnny's right.  There are times when "ing" is the right choice for a sentence to flow properly.  You just gotta pick and choose...
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LC
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 10:37pm Report to Moderator
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Ditto to what Johnny and Wonka said. There's a difference between passive verbs and progressive verbs and it's all about the construction of the sentence - sometimes an 'ing' is indeed necessary - you learn how it works.

Also, that point about a full separate paragraph preferably for each character description - sometimes that ain't necessary and depending on the script neither is the inclusion of a last name.

Some of the points are right on the money - problem is when someone dictates hard and fast rules.

As always story is key . You can get away with a lot if it's a brilliant tale and a lot can be fixed according to industry standard later.

Seems a bit ridiculous to me that a script would automatically be labeled amateur with the implication being it wouldn't be worth reading further if any of these points haven't been adhered to.


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Grandma Bear
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 10:43pm Report to Moderator
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I have no clue what you guys are even talking about. I don't think I could tell a passive verb from a progressive one if someone held a gun to my head. This is why I have to stick to my simple way.


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LC
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 10:58pm Report to Moderator
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Pia, I'll find an example, or a couple later and post them up.

You never know you might be using them and not knowing you are.


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Grandma Bear
Posted: November 29th, 2014, 11:24pm Report to Moderator
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I don't want to get confused. I'm just going to continue what I'm doing. I usually get a 9 or 10 on spelling and grammar when I send my scripts out for coverage. Don't jinx me!  


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Scoob
Posted: November 30th, 2014, 12:13am Report to Moderator
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Always used Final Draft, never had any issues with it.  Seems producers like it too, and they do occasionally ask for drafts so they or their "team" can work with drafts you give them. It just seems to be the program most producers use, and most compatible.  Compatible being main word.  If you can send someone something they can use it's a lot more useful than sending someone something they have to convert.  Basically, if you can use FD, I'd recommend using it.

It's also served me well, so I'm a Final Draft fan.

I don't agree with this guy on some of his "rules".  Clearly some work -- most Hollywood films are so predictable because they use the same damn template over and over, and they're unlikely to change.  So there is proof in the pudding. There is a "formula".  But I don't agree with everything this guy says.  I think you just need to use common sense when you read over your script.  And Hollywood isn't the be all and end all, it's great to attract bigwig pro co's, but don't sell your soul. Unless it’s worth it.

I agree with Dustin.  You can't tell someone how to write a story.  And from my experience, producers want good stories. T hey don't give a rats about spelling, punctuation, scene headings...(well, some)... but mostly, they think " Can we do something with this."  The producer's job is to help formulate a spec into a script, then the director has his/her version. Or both work together, which is great or can be hell.  
I’ve actually f’d this process up more than anything else. A few years back, I was under the impression once you meet the “magic formula”, everything just slides into place. Well, no. Not quite as simple as that.  I wish these screenwriting gurus would comment on that process. Maybe ‘cos they’ve never been there.

As much as we should make our screenplays as great and production quality wise as possible, it's gonna go through several processes anyway... it's best not to linger or be fearful about what the experts suggest.  Just write your own way,  keep in mind the basic rules of screenplay writing, and go to town.

Having said that -- and just seen Pia’s comment:  I used to also take note of never using “AND”, “THE”, “words that end with LY or ING” -- and it was great advice.  I changed one script with the above and it got optioned within the month. Bizarre. It’s (one of) the most important thing I learnt from this site.  I understand it now, it’s rule of thumb, but at the time I was like “what the fuck? This don’t even make sense?! Why write like I’m retarded?” hahah.
Now, I’m like “meh.” This ‘ING word speeds up the sentence, this AND is needed to make the sentence make sense, this “THE” is required so whoever reads this doesn't think I’m from an alien planet.

Forget 50 rules. Here’s my rule. Write a decent story in basic script format and you’ll probably do alright.



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LC
Posted: November 30th, 2014, 12:58am Report to Moderator
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Present Progressive: being an action taking place in the present.

A few examples from Revolutionary Road:

EXT. MIDTOWN STREET - DAY
A crowded midtown street.

Frank sprints along the pavement like he's never run before.

People turn and stare.

But the mass of people is too thick.

He's caught up like a man fighting a tide.

Frank stumbles into the street. CARS HONK.

He's running now through traffic.

He runs harder, his head thrown back.


INT. BACKSTAGE - NIGHT
Shep paces nervously silently rehearsing his lines. He looks up.

INT. TOURING CAR - EVENING
April sits in the passenger seat, breathing in the buttery leather and chrome. Loving every detail.

And  a little bit of one of mine:

EXT. BALCONY - SUNSET
The sun gone, Grace shivers against the chill, hugging her
arms close to her body.


KITCHEN
She leans in again, peering into the black hole. Gingerly she pokes one finger in - then two, then her whole hand and arm
goes in.


Quite a few ing words throughout both examples.

I try to keep them to a minimum but sometimes they work for the momentum and rhythm.

But Pia, you keep doing what you're doing obviously.  You're a Pro now and clearly a step ahead of most of us.  



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LC  -  November 30th, 2014, 1:50am
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sniper
Posted: November 30th, 2014, 2:38am Report to Moderator
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Before anybody gets bent out of shape over these "rules" - and I doubt many will, cos' I think most people here are smart enough to tell which nuggets are gold and which are basically shit - know this: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

There is absolutely nothing new in this article about the so-called rules. Some are solid, some are just downright stupid. Intentions and obstacles create drama/conflict, and there's your story. Give your character a flaw or an inner demon to resolve, and there's your character arc. Add clarity and structure to the mix, and there's your script. Basically.

The point about passive verbs, is and are, words that end on "ly" is valid but only to a certain extent. As LC show in the two examples, passive verbs following an active verb work but - as with everything else - just don't overdo it.

First and last name of the characters? Sure - if it's relevant to the story (which it rarely is).

Whether if something is written in FD or Celtx etc. is irrelevant. Yes, you can tell the difference - even in pdf form - but so what? I use FD myself and - if pressed - I think I can pick out the scripts that aren't written in FD as well based on the tiny - and I do mean tiny - variations in the format. But is this something that will dramatically change the read in any shape or form? Of course not.

It's basically like Coke and Pepsi. Same but different.

Like Dustin rightly said, these "gurus" weren't good enough themselves to make it so now they have to justify there existence by scaring writers who have just started out into buying their "services". Some of them are legit however but it can be impossible to tell in this internet age.


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load

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sniper  -  November 30th, 2014, 6:04am
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DustinBowcot
Posted: November 30th, 2014, 3:17am Report to Moderator
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If this is his IMDb profile... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1638958/

I'm less than impressed. It's actually more of a joke. I don't think there's a single film he has been involved with that's gotten more than a 5.

It's always better to check people out. If they have numerous credits as a script consultant, then they may be worth you spending some cash with.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: November 30th, 2014, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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Libby, you're VERY helpful here at SS. Much appreciated. In my case though, I think I'm too old to learn all the grammar rules.   I also have a very hard time learning by reading. If someone shows me how to do something, I learn quickly. I read a lot, but it's for pleasure only. Other types of reading just don't stick. Lately, a friend's been trying to make me look at different styles of prose. What is good writing and what is bad, but I never can tell which is good or bad. I only know if the story interests me or not. I tried to write prose once and was told I was bad at it.   I never tried again. So, I'm just going to stick to my script writing and my style. It's not because I think that's how it should be done, but rather, that's the only way I know how. It seems to be working. Whenever I send my scripts out for coverage I usually score the highest on my writing. Go figure.  

Rob, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." And those who can't even teach critique. That's what it seems like to me and I'm not just talking about writing. It seems to be true with everything.

Dustin, I didn't see any writing credits.


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