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Please just go on. I only wanted to give some input, man, since I ripped it to pieces in my overall first post. I wanted to show that I'm open for discussion other than only shredding Arrow, what I needed to do when you ask for first impression.
Oh, I was just trying to keep us on one topic so the order of the discussion doesn't get too messy. Never got the impression that you weren't open to discussion, I think you're overemphasizing the fact that you disliked the script. Or I'm reading your post with the wrong tone. Oh well. Any way, your posts have all been a good contribution imo.
Quoted from PrussianMosby
I don't think it's that complicated. Those "might" be some minor thoughts of Oliver. Still with regards to Diggle's skills Navy and all that, who else do they want to hire? Oliver is a killing machine, he doesn't have to fear.
Maybe the word "like" is wrong. I mean that he can imagine to get along with Diggle. Oliver has to choose wisely who he can trust from a human sight now.
For me Diggle is more stable to his new ego than Tommy is imo.
Sure, he can't blame Diggle for doing his job BUT HE RESPECTS HOW DIGGLE DOES IT imo, and that ethical behaviour Oliver LIKES. Diggle did nothin wrong, he's authentic to him.
I suppose he had to like him enough to not play russian roulette with the next bodyguard, but the way I saw it, the main motivation was the control he needed to operate as Arrow. Maybe someone who has seen the next episodes can clear this up for us.
Yeah, understand. The character discussion is interesting. I'm going to reread some input especially Pia's long comment and the others' input about characters in screenplays/movies/series. I think that Dustin says message is most important is right; it's even our own inner motivation, why we want/need to share, that makes message authentic. I'm not so sure about if story is above character. For me it inaviteably belongs together.
As Pia said about characters, if I understand it right, I reread, she mentions feeling empathy for some villains. I agree, it doesn't have to be sympathy for the characters - somehow you need to be taken in by them no matter how.
Oops, thought the second long comment was from you...
I figured.
So, any other thoughts on this script? Dialogue? What about the constant use of CHARACTER (PRELAP)? I don't use it myself. It's an editing choice IMHO. Does it make the transitions better or not?
I liked prelap usage in this script, seemed to fit the style. I think it did three things effectively:
1. Contribute to the reader envisioning the read as more fast-paced.
2. Showing and/or emphasizing the point of the scene with the prelapped line. Like here for example:
Quoted from Arrow Script
ROBERT You don't know me. Not really. You don't know the truth.
Off father and son, the endless sea all around them...
TOMMY (PRELAP) He's not who I thought he was.
3. Adding tension. Like here for example:
Quoted from Arrow Script
Oliver opens the now-familiar MOLESKIN notebook. Swipes a pen across a page: ADAM HUNT. Oliver shuts the book.
MOIRA (PRELAP) Did you think I wouldn't find out?
INT. QUEEN MANSION - SITTING ROOM - LATER
Moira is there, chewing out a chastened Diggle.
There's not a lot of thought on the characters and the discussion seems to be slowing down. I think we could ditch the idea of focusing on each topic specifically, I don't feel like discussing everything at length either anymore -- just butt in occasionally. So, in free form, does anyone want to bring out anything else they found interesting or discussion-worthy?
Well, those prelaps. I think most series have a distinctive cutting concept. Kind of helping to produce small cliffhangers. By the way - Did they use it for real?
There's not a lot of thought on the characters and the discussion seems to be slowing down.
There was a talk about characters in general and I can follow a lot of points mentioned and agree on much about all those movie characters; still, what do we have here, in this script?
What do the characters stand for?
From Oliver Queen's/Arrow's point of view, I see two groups.
His sister, Thea, - loyal, brings him VISIBLE social problems Diggle - neutral, at least not dangerous towards him Ivan and Raisa - friends???
second group:
Walter & Moira - Oliver doesn't know yet but they got shit going on, INVISIBLE problem Laurel and Detective Lance - seems they have a lot to work out with Oliver VISIBLE problem Tommy - most complicated relationship perhaps?????, they are fake friends, both having huge secrets toward each other Hunt - I think he's just the pilot's villain and won't have any further importance but I'm not sure...
An interesting point in my eyes is: The only characters and conflicts, we don't understand NOW is, what's going on with Walter and Moira.
There's another point, I didn't realize yet, and maybe someone who knows the series can help.
Location and society, seen as character, seen as his obstacle, point to protect, to free, and to improve, whatever: I mean what is this city, this place about? Robert said to his son that he did a lot wrong and his son shouldn't follow his footsteps. What does Oliver/Arrow need to change? The world is quite small yet. There's that lawyer bureau, than the Queen's mansion and Hunt's tower near the closed iron company where the party runs. I think location/world is delivered quite weak with regards to that it seems to be the major need of Oliver to bring justice. To whom? Who suffers and why? Where is it shown?
Maybe there were some hints when they drove through wrecked up neighborhoods; Laurel's work against corruption, or the pressure Adam Hunt puts upon police and Laurel.
Still, where was the disaster, the cancer, the point which is needed to change immedietely? Where are the citizens? I didn't get a clear picture of the city and society. It comes across as a weaker superficial Gotham City, mirrored through bureaus and people talking about what's wrong
instead of that it is entirely shown.
@ Maybe I didn't pay enough attention because I don't even know the name of the city...(checked Starling City.)
DS What do you want to talk about? I'm defenitely open to discuss the script deeper. Maybe some others have some further stuff? I think it went a bit off topic in case of the Arrow script.
Perhaps someone likes to describe how they shot it in the end, what they rejected, what they used or decided to change from the material this script offers.
DS What do you want to talk about? I'm defenitely open to discuss the script deeper. Maybe some others have some further stuff? I think it went a bit off topic in case of the Arrow script.
Nothing I really want to bring out. I'll just sit back and see what to reply to. Was just trying to lead the conversation, since I proposed to run SC. Characters, in specific, haven't gotten posts. I'm not sure there's much mileage left in the discussion here. Let the thread roam free and see if anything bites or whether we can call the script club a done deal. Specific scenes and writing are two shorter topics that pop into my mind, where there could be more to discuss with less effort. It gives the chance for everyone that hasn't read the script in its entirety to have a chance to pop in, too.
Also, that's a really good point about the city. You're right, it wasn't that established exactly what and how had gone wrong with the city, apart from the corruption hints and the conflicting neighbourhoods. I think the reason that it still worked, plus wasn't as noticeable, was the personal connection with the father. That's a good tip I'll consider in writing well. If it's important for the story in hand, not to forget that the location is also an integral character.
Nothing I really want to bring out. I'll just sit back and see what to reply to. Was just trying to lead the conversation, since I proposed to run SC. Characters, in specific, haven't gotten posts. I'm not sure there's much mileage left in the discussion here. Let the thread roam free and see if anything bites or whether we can call the script club a done deal. Specific scenes and writing are two shorter topics that pop into my mind, where there could be more to discuss with less effort. It gives the chance for everyone that hasn't read the script in its entirety to have a chance to pop in, too.
Also, that's a really good point about the city. You're right, it wasn't that established exactly what and how had gone wrong with the city, apart from the corruption hints and the conflicting neighbourhoods. I think the reason that it still worked, plus wasn't as noticeable, was the personal connection with the father. That's a good tip I'll consider in writing well. If it's important for the story in hand, not to forget that the location is also an integral character.
You did a good job as host here and without you things wouldn't have started. Let's see what happens. Perhaps those who voted for the script at first chime in. Nobody's obliged to of course. Who knows. I'll be around...
I was hoping for a little more participation, but maybe lots of people are on vacation and such this time of year. The script was good and it was good to try a TV pilot.
Thanks again to DS and everyone else who took part!