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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Screenwriting Discussion    Screenwriting Class  ›  Voice over Moderators: George Willson
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BSaunders
Posted: February 9th, 2016, 7:21pm Report to Moderator
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How much voice over is too much voice over?

Can anyone recommend any scripts to read that involves too much V.O.?

I have read Forrst Gump a few times because who doesn't  love that movie?  The script I am currently working on is kind of along those lines as far as structure goes, but I have a little more V.O. than Forrest Gump.

Any opinion is appreciated.

Cheers
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Demento
Posted: February 9th, 2016, 7:52pm Report to Moderator
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I'm not a fan of V.O, at all. But, I've noticed that most casual viewers actually like it, a lot.

There's no set limit to anything. You'll just have to see how the script flows. If it fits the tone. Nothing is good if it's overdone.

Your thread reminded me of this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165874/

It's a fake comedy documentary about human relationships from the perspective of an alien. Done like an alien TV documentary, BBC style. The whole movie is V.O, narrated by the guy that plays Niles on Frasier. It totally works and doesn't get tiresome. Well, maybe a bit at the end. But my point is, if you have the right idea you can go crazy with it and it'll still work. If you're writing a drama, something serious, I'd be more careful.
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RegularJohn
Posted: February 9th, 2016, 8:47pm Report to Moderator
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I really dislike voice overs as well.  I can't help but feel like it's a bit of a cop out.

I'd say avoid it at all cost unless you REALLY need it in your story.  Most of what goes in voice overs can be portrayed through your action and dialogue with a little creativity and it's more rewarding for the audience IMO.  Usually when I come across voice overs, especially in amateur scripts, it's for exposition or basically spelling out what a character is feeling.  That's my 2 cents, anyway.


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BSaunders
Posted: February 10th, 2016, 12:31am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Demento
I'm not a fan of V.O, at all. But, I've noticed that most casual viewers actually like it, a lot.

There's no set limit to anything. You'll just have to see how the script flows. If it fits the tone. Nothing is good if it's overdone.

Your thread reminded me of this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165874/

It's a fake comedy documentary about human relationships from the perspective of an alien. Done like an alien TV documentary, BBC style. The whole movie is V.O, narrated by the guy that plays Niles on Frasier. It totally works and doesn't get tiresome. Well, maybe a bit at the end. But my point is, if you have the right idea you can go crazy with it and it'll still work. If you're writing a drama, something serious, I'd be more careful.


Thanks mate, I'll have to look that screenplay up online. Seems interesting, I have never heard of it. Was it ever much of a hit or was it just a spoof kind of thing?

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BSaunders
Posted: February 10th, 2016, 12:37am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RegularJohn
I really dislike voice overs as well.  I can't help but feel like it's a bit of a cop out.

I'd say avoid it at all cost unless you REALLY need it in your story.  Most of what goes in voice overs can be portrayed through your action and dialogue with a little creativity and it's more rewarding for the audience IMO.  Usually when I come across voice overs, especially in amateur scripts, it's for exposition or basically spelling out what a character is feeling.  That's my 2 cents, anyway.


Thanks mate. I'm using the voice over in place of dialogue if you know what I mean. For instance: There is a part where my character gets caught by Rebels and taken hostage for three months. I have zero dialogue, just action with a little Voice over of him saying what's going on in his head for about 5 pages until they bring in another captee for him to interact with.
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LC
Posted: February 10th, 2016, 2:36am Report to Moderator
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Some people do indeed dislike voice over and like Regular John they believe your action should speak for itself and 'be portrayed through your action and dialogue' i.e., that it's not necessary.

People generally fall in two camps - they love it or hate it.

I personally love V.O. on the proviso it is done well. That's obviously the key ingredient.

Loved the top n tail V.O. in Road To Perdition and I loved it in Shawshank.

I have it on good authority there's a V.O. in Hateful Eight as well that apparently is intrinsic to the interpretation of a certain 'plot' element and key 'poison' scene.

Regarding Forrest Gump I'll be the dissenting voice here and say that and Love Actually are two movies which really irk me - ugh, so contrived and saccharine, but each to their own. They were both hits so I'm in the minority there. The only other movie which irked me even more was The English Patient - laughing at a love scene is never a good sign imh.

I will reiterate voice over needs to be done well. In the end I think it's about adopting a style choice and evoking mood. I'm a fan of it so I'm not going to warn you off it just be aware even if it's done well you'll have people (mostly screenwriters) who just don't care for it and will not be shy in telling you so.


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BSaunders
Posted: February 10th, 2016, 2:57am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from LC
Some people do indeed dislike voice over and like Regular John they believe your action should speak for itself and 'be portrayed through your action and dialogue' i.e., that it's not necessary.

People generally fall in two camps - they love it or hate it.

I personally love V.O. on the proviso it is done well. That's obviously the key ingredient.

Loved the top n tail V.O. in Road To Perdition and I loved it in Shawshank.

I have it on good authority there's a V.O. in Hateful Eight as well that apparently is intrinsic to the interpretation of a certain 'plot' element and key 'poison' scene.

Regarding Forrest Gump I'll be the dissenting voice here and say that and Love Actually are two movies which really irk me - ugh, so contrived and saccharine, but each to their own. They were both hits so I'm in the minority there. The only other movie which irked me even more was The English Patient - laughing at a love scene is never a good sign imh.

I will reiterate voice over needs to be done well. In the end I think it's about adopting a style choice and evoking mood. I'm a fan of it so I'm not going to warn you off it just be aware even if it's done well you'll have people (mostly screenwriters) who just don't care for it and will not be shy in telling you so.

I agree with you 100 percent.

Cheers

Although, I loved the Forrest Gump V.O. Hahaha

"Itty bitty stingy rain"
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RegularJohn
Posted: February 10th, 2016, 10:35am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from BSaunders


Thanks mate. I'm using the voice over in place of dialogue if you know what I mean. For instance: There is a part where my character gets caught by Rebels and taken hostage for three months. I have zero dialogue, just action with a little Voice over of him saying what's going on in his head for about 5 pages until they bring in another captee for him to interact with.


Interesting idea.  I'd probably just have the guy mumble nonsense at some water stain on the wall that resembled the virgin mary, lol.  Sorta like the grilled cheese sandwich that looked like Jesus.

I guess my dislike for voice overs stems from the fact that I'm not a huge fan of dialogue either which sounds weird, I know.  Guess I've always preferred characters tripping over their feet than characters tripping over their words.

In either case, good luck with your script.


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BSaunders
Posted: February 10th, 2016, 10:29pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RegularJohn


Interesting idea.  I'd probably just have the guy mumble nonsense at some water stain on the wall that resembled the virgin mary, lol.  Sorta like the grilled cheese sandwich that looked like Jesus.

I guess my dislike for voice overs stems from the fact that I'm not a huge fan of dialogue either which sounds weird, I know.  Guess I've always preferred characters tripping over their feet than characters tripping over their words.

In either case, good luck with your script.

Hahaha. Cheers mate  
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eldave1
Posted: February 11th, 2016, 6:44pm Report to Moderator
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Guess I don't understand the love - hate thing. I love them when they enhance a script or story and hate them when they don't. I would never have a guideline that says avoid them.



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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PrussianMosby
Posted: February 11th, 2016, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
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Talent scouts and producers say to strictly avoid it when one sends them fresh material.

Then let's be honest 30-50 % of mainstream cinema in recent years have a VO at least in their exposition. How is that?

I think when filming they use it to get into story sooner, to avoid longer screentime, slower storytelling OR especially longer/better script development IMO

Also, filmakers sometimes seem to underestimate the audience and think they need to fed us conflict so that we understand.

So, in specs I tend to a VO !NO!

In execution of movies is a clear !Okay! at least with regarding reality

ADD To the asker: Search for interviews of readers of your markets, producers etc.. Not that I want to sound clever, I'm not, but there's a lot of information about the topic and several other topics you may like or need to know to better your chances to reach your markets.



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Pale Yellow
Posted: February 11th, 2016, 9:58pm Report to Moderator
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I love VO if it's done well.
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Grandma Bear
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Quoted from Pale Yellow
I love VO if it's done well.


I think you did a GREAT job on the V.O. in the last OWC. I use it myself sometimes as well. The longest one probably in my sci-fi prisoner transport thriller. I have also read many pro scripts and watched many films using V.O. and it works well, especially if done in the beginning to sort of set the stage.


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PrussianMosby
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Yeah, I like VO too. Aren't we talking about a first contact impression of a speculation script here? Cause those readers dislike it...



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Grandma Bear
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Quoted from PrussianMosby
Yeah, I like VO too. Aren't we talking about a first contact impression of a speculation script here? Cause those readers dislike it...

I don't know that they do. I've never heard that before. I think if it's good and draws you in and makes you want you to read on, why would they dislike it?


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PrussianMosby
Posted: February 11th, 2016, 11:03pm Report to Moderator
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Pia, I think it is because they see 90+ pages (constantly, daily) ahead and see VO as a florurish distraction of message.

They want to check asap the core and if its worth.

If you want me to, I provide links soon; to some pages, no problem.

Cheers



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Grandma Bear
Posted: February 12th, 2016, 12:05am Report to Moderator
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I don't need links, but thanks.  

I'm just saying, that if a script starts out with a V.O. that is strong and pulls you in, they will continue to read. If the V.O. comes later in the script, I doubt that they will ditch the script because of it, if what they have read prior is great.

I have read/listened to Robert McKee's Story seminar and he says that Hollywood really is looking for the best scripts out there. They want nothing more than finding a GREAT script. I truly believe that. The problem is for writers to get their scripts out there to be seen. I also think that most of us writers believe our scripts are better than they really are. There's a saying out there, can't remember exactly how it goes, but it's something along the lines of, when we're young we think we know everything, but the older we get, we realize how little we know. I think that's true for screenwriting as well. When we are new to the craft, we think our scripts are great. The more experienced we get, the more we realize how hard it actually is to write a GREAT script.

Now, maybe someone smarter than me can put that a little more eloquently in text.  


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PrussianMosby
Posted: February 12th, 2016, 12:41am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear

Now, maybe someone smarter than me can put that a little more eloquently in text.  


No no, your text was perfect and I agree with you all along.

The selling stuff, cold calls, email traffic for "budget" projects just made me take a look into all of the details, interviews and notes.

It's just hard to articulate but I think they prefer characters in actions, nor dialogue nor VO, to experience if the characters can hold/stand




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DustinBowcot
Posted: February 12th, 2016, 4:03am Report to Moderator
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VO is not the problem... the problem is bad writing.
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AnthonyCawood
Posted: February 12th, 2016, 5:43am Report to Moderator
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As with all things screenwriting... there are no 'rules' as there is no 'rule book', only current trends and fads that come and go.

Some people think that VO should be avoided as it has become seen as a little cliched/overused.

BUT I agree with Dena, Pia, Dustin, Dave, Prussian and CJ (and I guess that means we all agree), that if the script is great then no one will reject is due to VO... why would they if this script may make them money!

Juts my two peneth


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
Available Feature screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/feature-film-scripts/
Screenwriting articles - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/articles
IMDB Link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6495672/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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DustinBowcot
Posted: February 12th, 2016, 6:08am Report to Moderator
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It's not the VO that is cliche, but the dialogue the writers choose to write. Rather than really being involved with their story, they are too involved with making their story like so many others before it.
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BSaunders
Posted: February 12th, 2016, 5:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I don't need links, but thanks.  

I'm just saying, that if a script starts out with a V.O. that is strong and pulls you in, they will continue to read. If the V.O. comes later in the script, I doubt that they will ditch the script because of it, if what they have read prior is great.

I have read/listened to Robert McKee's Story seminar and he says that Hollywood really is looking for the best scripts out there. They want nothing more than finding a GREAT script. I truly believe that. The problem is for writers to get their scripts out there to be seen. I also think that most of us writers believe our scripts are better than they really are. There's a saying out there, can't remember exactly how it goes, but it's something along the lines of, when we're young we think we know everything, but the older we get, we realize how little we know. I think that's true for screenwriting as well. When we are new to the craft, we think our scripts are great. The more experienced we get, the more we realize how hard it actually is to write a GREAT script.

Now, maybe someone smarter than me can put that a little more eloquently in text.  

I believe a lot of us do have great scripts, but it's just getting them in the right hands that is the hardest thing.

I have read scripts on these forums that have been a lot more entertaining than movies I have seen on showtime channels or even at the cinemas recently.

Writing a grest script is the easy part. It's breaking through to have it read by some one high in ranks that is hard. If anyone knows how to get a script in the hands of a a list producer, please feel free to share that information
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Pale Yellow
Posted: February 12th, 2016, 6:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear


I think you did a GREAT job on the V.O. in the last OWC. I use it myself sometimes as well. The longest one probably in my sci-fi prisoner transport thriller. I have also read many pro scripts and watched many films using V.O. and it works well, especially if done in the beginning to sort of set the stage.


Thanks Pia but at least half of that V.O. was reworked by Kevin when he read and gave me notes/suggestions. I swear that man has really got a knack for dialogue. Wish I could take all the credit but can't
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