All screenplays on the simplyscripts.com and simplyscripts.net domain are copyrighted to their respective authors. All rights reserved. This screenplaymay not be used or reproduced for any purpose including educational purposes without the expressed written permission of the author.
Here is my working list of Top Five Things To Do To Get Someone To Go Beyond The First Page. At this point in time (and for the foreseeable future) 1. and 1.a. is a showstopper to getting on the site. I send them to Anthony's software page (with other free template suggestions). I'd like to flesh this out. The [ ]'d items are what I'd like to flesh out more. If you have a moment, do you have a different "top five" peeve"? and/or How can I better explain why it's bad and what to do about it.
1. Formatting (and Software) 1.a.Spelling, punctuation and capitalization count.
[ ]Why Formatting is Important.
[ ]One page example of screenplay format (Which would highlight Font, Fade In, Screen Heading, Action (Stage Direction/Slugs), Transition, Dialouge (Character, parenteticals), The End) with emphasis on Software available to do this: [ ]Screenplay Format Glossary
[ ]Software:
[ ] I'd like this to lead with Free Templates and move down to other low cost options, e.g.,
2. Scene Headings - Location - Place - Time of Day [ ]Examples (bolding is not a hill I would die on)
3. Try to avoid using camera angles. [ ]We are not the director. We are not writing a shooting script. We are telling a story. Don't take the reader out of the story. [ ] Examples:
4. Try to avoid using We See/We Hear" in Action (Stage Direction/Slugs) [ ] Who is "We" and why are you in the bathroom with me reading this script. [ ]Examples: Bad: "We see a boy running across an open field. We hear an eagle scream." Bood: "A boy runs across an open field. He hears an eagle scream"
5. Try to avoid writing in passive voice. One trick is to avoid using "-ing" verbs in Action (Stage Direction/Slugs) Passive: A little girl is beating a homeless man. Active: A little girl beats the homeless man.
I think stay away from suggesting MS Word (even though that is a great and intuitive template there), especially as there are so many free options for dedicated software.
Quoted Text
. No camera angles. We are not the director. We are not writing a shooting script. We are telling a story. Don't take the reader out of the story.
I've argued this before, but I think this is overstated advice. Spec scripts (that get produced) often have camera directions, especially when its necessery for a scene to work. A spec script isn't a shooting script so they should be used very sparesly (and I, out of personal preference, never use them) but a script's failings are never going to be because a writer has "low angle" on one page.
Quoted Text
no "-ing" verbs in Action
I hear this all the time, too, and I personally never use passive voice on purpose (it's slipped by on occasion). However, it's not a big issue if I read it. Most of the time I don't notice it.
Besides huge formatting mistakes, my biggest pet peeve with new writers is that they don't respect the length of their work. For instance, 140 pages is too long for script and no one can get through it. It's probably the only hard and fast rule that I think should never be broken by spec writers - make your feature 80-100 pages at the most.
I think stay away from suggesting MS Word (even though that is a great and intuitive template there), especially as there are so many free options for dedicated software.
It is those free options that I want to flesh out.
I've argued this before, but I think this is overstated advice. Spec scripts (that get produced) often have camera directions, especially when its necessary for a scene to work. A spec script isn't a shooting script so they should be used very sparsely (and I, out of personal preference, never use them) but a script's failings are never going to be because a writer has "low angle" on one page.
I hear this all the time, too, and I personally never use passive voice on purpose (it's slipped by on occasion). However, it's not a big issue if I read it. Most of the time I don't notice it.
Besides huge formatting mistakes, my biggest pet peeve with new writers is that they don't respect the length of their work. For instance, 140 pages is too long for script and no one can get through it. It's probably the only hard and fast rule that I think should never be broken by spec writers - make your feature 80-100 pages at the most.
[/quote]
Ben,
Thanks for these insights. I will keep them in mind as I revise.
I'll be a good boy and be quiet. Personal growth, I guess.
Hi Kevin,
I'm not sure where you are going with this. I've listed my personal pet peeves in the hope that I can come up with a few items that a new writer can use to put the best foot forward as well as elevate, if even slightly, the quality of the works on the site.
Veteran advice: "You should avoid passive writing."
The amateur responds: "What's passive writing?"
The veteran writer, who understandably doesn't have time to hold a writing style course, says "Just don't use ing words."
That made some kind of sense in the pre-internet age. But now people can look up what passive writing is and get a better sense.
To completely eliminate passive description results in weaker writing. Pro scripts don't look that way. It's taking a tool out of the writer's toolbox.
Highly refined amateur scripts look that way, and it marks them as amateur.
I think the falsehood that some of these things are absolute rules is being perpetuated.
Here's what I think happens:
These rules take brand spanking new writers and DO make them better.
But then these rules eventually CONSTRICT the writer's development...because the rules are essentially false.
The only rule that matters is good writing, and following these rules strictly leads to awkward writing. EVERY time. There is not a single pro script written this way.
Simplyscripts has a role to play. A lot of people, I suspect, learn to write screen here. I don't know how it's best to split the difference. On the one hand, you want to help the babe-in-the-woods writer. That means simple rules.
But when these general rules of thumb are turned into "rules", it drives away writers eventually, once they see these rules hold them back. They start to see this as a freshman writing course that you have to get past and then move on if you want to grow.
Does it have to be that way? Maybe. I don't know.
And I do recognize that a huge challenge for Don is to be able to make a quick evaluation of a script before he posts it, to see if it's close to a standard. So I'm not sure what the solution is.
The very act of trying to break the form of good writing down into a few simple rules is what led to the problem in the first place...the problem being awkward writing in screenwriting.
Maybe just change the wording to "avoid passive voice as much as possible"...and let the writer google what that is. "Avoid 'we see' and avoid camera directions, descriptions of things that can't be seen in the film..."
I agree Leitskeiv. You basically said what I was trying to, but better.
**
Hell, I think even saying "avoid" is too strong a directive. Instead, explain why passive writing is "frowned upon": i.e "passive writing uses more space and is jarring" and let writers make their own assessment as to how they should respond.
What if we are driving through a suburban neighborhood.
Suburban utopia: an old man watering the lawn, kids riding their bikes, mothers pushing baby carriages, people walking their dogs...
and a little girl beating a homeless man?!
Is it really better to say an old man waters his lawn?
The above example is not a grammatically correct sentence, it's a long fragment, but even in prose fragments are sprinkled in usefully.
And especially in screenwriting they can be useful to creating punchier scripts.
I think "avoid" is good advice. And then I think Don will know the difference at a glance between a good writer who knows what he's doing and one who doesn't.
I think Dave, too, has said the same thing - use 'avoid' (or 'try to avoid' or 'use sparingly') rather than absolutes when it comes to passive writing, camera angels and 'we'.
A five point FAQ is not going make a writer's first script a masterpiece. However, I am trying to vastly improve that first draft that is posted so that we as writers, when a draft is posted to the site, can focus on the story rather than the mechanics. Later the writer can learn when one can get away with breaking the rules.
I've modified the top five issues based upon your suggestions. I still need to flesh out more. Willing to take suggestions.
That's fair, Don. It's hard to make a "guide" to formatting without using some absolutes. And again, I guess you have to learn the basics to be able to break them well, like Leitskev does.
Veteran advice: "You should avoid passive writing."
The amateur responds: "What's passive writing?"
The veteran writer, who understandably doesn't have time to hold a writing style course, says "Just don't use ing words."
That made some kind of sense in the pre-internet age. But now people can look up what passive writing is and get a better sense.
To completely eliminate passive description results in weaker writing. Pro scripts don't look that way. It's taking a tool out of the writer's toolbox.
Highly refined amateur scripts look that way, and it marks them as amateur.
I think the falsehood that some of these things are absolute rules is being perpetuated.
Here's what I think happens:
These rules take brand spanking new writers and DO make them better.
But then these rules eventually CONSTRICT the writer's development...because the rules are essentially false.
The only rule that matters is good writing, and following these rules strictly leads to awkward writing. EVERY time. There is not a single pro script written this way.
Simplyscripts has a role to play. A lot of people, I suspect, learn to write screen here. I don't know how it's best to split the difference. On the one hand, you want to help the babe-in-the-woods writer. That means simple rules.
But when these general rules of thumb are turned into "rules", it drives away writers eventually, once they see these rules hold them back. They start to see this as a freshman writing course that you have to get past and then move on if you want to grow.
Does it have to be that way? Maybe. I don't know.
And I do recognize that a huge challenge for Don is to be able to make a quick evaluation of a script before he posts it, to see if it's close to a standard. So I'm not sure what the solution is.
The very act of trying to break the form of good writing down into a few simple rules is what led to the problem in the first place...the problem being awkward writing in screenwriting.
Maybe just change the wording to "avoid passive voice as much as possible"...and let the writer google what that is. "Avoid 'we see' and avoid camera directions, descriptions of things that can't be seen in the film..."
Use AVOID instead of DO NOT.
IMO
I understand and in many areas share your sentiment. I don't believe in absolute rules other than standard format and typos.
That being said, I do think that there is room for "generally" in this discussion and that newbies could benefit from that knowledge. The first script I posted here was filled with "ing" words. After being admonished/guided in that area I re-drafted and it is a much better script, IMO. I violate all kinds of the so-called "rules" now, but with knowledge of what some of the guidelines are. I think the guidance can be crafted in such a way that it does not put hand cuffs on a creative writer.
As I said, the simple rules DO help the brand new writer.
But there is no doubt that this process of creating easy rules of thumb has resulted in this strange world of scripts being written by seasoned and talented writers where there is an abundance of awkward writing. And the awkwardness is the result of one thing: an attempt to rigidly comply with these rules.
I guess what I'm saying is that it would be nice if Simplyscripts could contribute to two contradictory forces.
On the one hand, we want it to continue to guide brand new writers. That means teaching these simple rules.
But on the other hand it should be a place for maturing writers. That means advocating good writing...a process which includes knowing when to throw out these "rules".
Later, I may go out to water the lawn.
When you drive down the street, you may see me watering the lawn. It's an ongoing process, a state of affairs, something you see me doing. There is no conceivable argument that using the word "watering" is poor style.
The lonely guy is sitting at the bar staring at the hot bartender.
I think we are on the same page. At least for me - it took several discussions on this board to get there. Using your watering example - I went from completing over using ing - to never using it (after being guided not to) and then telling another writer that they shouldn't. Their response was - thanks - but I am okay with the ing word because I am showing an activity in progress. My synapses - oh - that does make sense. All of that was part of the maturing process.
Same with bold scene headings (I like them - others hate them), not using CONT'Ds - I don't - others say rule violation, etc. etc.
But in all these cases I benefitted from a starting point.
Anyway - I think the proposed thread as I imagine it will allow for healthy input to new writers and a nice place to discuss nuances amongst more experienced writers. i.e., long winded way of saying that it seems we are in agreement on what the ideal thread would look like.
Here's how it went for me. I had no training, had never read a screenwriting book when I came here. By that time I had written 2 features. The first was on Microsoft word, I knew it was junk. The second was junk too...but I had no idea.
Bert was kind enough to slog through it and give me advice in a way which didn't cause me to run for the hills.
Then I started trying to learn with shorts. Jeff helped a ton, and I will always be grateful.
As time when by, though, I started questioning on my own, in certain very specific situations, whether the rules made sense. Sometimes they seemed to force awkward writing. As a writer, you almost have to perform mental gymnastics to work within the rules.
All of my life, I listen to all advice...but also question everything. Yeah, one of many annoying anti-social traits. I am what I am. So I was well down the road of questioning how absolute many of these rules should be.
Then I finally started getting recently written pro scripts...including those written on spec. And this confirmed what I had already been thinking about these rules.
And yes, there are examples of poorly written pro scripts that sell because of the concept or some other reason. But those are the exception, not the rule. If you read most of these scripts you can see the incredible difference between how they tell stories and how an amateur does. Even a very good amateur..
So all I am really suggesting is that the forum finds some happy medium of helping newbs, but not perpetuating these false rules that lead, ultimately, to awkward and limited writing.
I agree there should not be hard and fast rules. Here's the three "guidelines" I would suggest to a new screenwriter:
- SHOW, DON'T TELL. This is in CAPS because it's a universal part of storytelling, and has nothing to do with format.
- Read. Read other scripts. Read books on screenwriting. Read novels, feature stories, any well-written prose. It makes you a better writer.
- Know your grammar. We've all seen new screenwriters who may "have an idea" and they want to commit to the screenplay format, however they don't have a firm grasp on grammar and punctuation.
I agree there should not be hard and fast rules. Here's the three "guidelines" I would suggest to a new screenwriter:
- SHOW, DON'T TELL. This is in CAPS because it's a universal part of storytelling, and has nothing to do with format.
- Read. Read other scripts. Read books on screenwriting. Read novels, feature stories, any well-written prose. It makes you a better writer.
- Know your grammar. We've all seen new screenwriters who may "have an idea" and they want to commit to the screenplay format, however they don't have a firm grasp on grammar and punctuation.
All this talk about hard and fast rules is a bit funny to me. I actually decided to pursue screenwritting because of the "rules" , formatting, and structure.
I think I have a little OCD, I like rules and structure. I like to know how things should be and why.
Maybe it does hinder my ability to write a great script, who knows.
So when it comes to reviewing scripts, the way in which it is written definitely affects the read for me. It also makes me think of the amount of books on formatting and scripts I had to read to be able to write a script.
I like the idea of rules atleast until people have some idea of what they are doing.
Does it really matter if this morning your main happened to pick out a nice plaid sweater vest, creased khaki slacks and a black bowler hat to wear to the coffee shop this morning? Or that the love interest has her hair in a neat bun with a pretty blue bow? Of course not. Clothing adds nothing to a character, at least not where the story and your script are concerned. Leave those headaches and decisions to wardrobe if and when your script ever gets made.
So many times I read a script and find the characters described only by the clothes they are wearing and it kills me. Usually this is done when a character is first introduced so this is the writer's first chance to make an impression on the reader and ends up as an opportunity wasted. Remember, that first chance to make an impression is all you're going to get, it's a golden opportunity so make the most of it! Show us the person under the clothes. When we first see them what are they doing? Cheating on a test? Running red lights on the way to work? Getting berated by their boss and passively taking it? Are they shouting back? Breaking down in tears? How they act when we meet them tells us far more than their fashion sense ever will.
Clothing adds nothing to a character, at least not where the story and your script are concerned...
For main characters, I will agree there should be more detail of personae. For all others, sometimes it's all you have to go on, or need.
If a scene has a suave alpha male barking at minions as they arbitrarily turn knobs inside a hollowed out volcano, it gives the perception of a rouge enterprise hell bent on world domination. If the Minions are wearing lycra leotards and helmets carved from watermelons, well... you most likely have a pack of flaming fruitcakes hell bent on world transfiguration. That alone, IMO, is worth a thousand words.
1) learn the basics about constructing a script 2) get your hands on a handful of pro scripts that have been written in the last, say, five years. Get the look and feel of a script. Each of those scripts will have a slightly different feel, but they all will have the look and feel of a pro script. Read some amateur scripts to compare. 3) know what an unfilmable is and don't attempt any until you have completed 5 features. 4) likewise with passive voice, adverbs, "we see" 5) keep your lines of action description to a minimum 6) when in doubt, clarity trumps all rules. Make sure what you want us to see is clear, do whatever it takes to do that in as few words as possible 7) once the reader is bored, you've lost her...avoid anything that bores seek out other screenwriters to compare reads. Review their work. AND MAKE YOUR REVIEWS MEANINGFUL. Dig into to story and just tell them what you honestly like and don't like. This is why I myself don't share reads of features anymore and why I don't post features here. Because I don't want to owe people a lengthy read when they didn't really help me. If I read your feature I am going to TRY HARD to give you useful notes. That will take at least a few hours of my time. Why would I do that if you read my features and say "nice work, really dig the pop sickle scene!" If your notes don't help the reader, why should he invest the time in your script? And TRUST YOURSELF. You might be new, but your opinion on story is as good as anyone else's. So dig in, think about what you are reading, and give REAL feedback. That WILL be valued by the reader, and you'll make lasting and indispensable connections that way.
1) learn the basics about constructing a script 2) get your hands on a handful of pro scripts that have been written in the last, say, five years. Get the look and feel of a script. Each of those scripts will have a slightly different feel, but they all will have the look and feel of a pro script. Read some amateur scripts to compare.
Number one is really what I'm trying most to accomplish. Have an understanding of the construction of a script. With regard to reading pro scripts. That is where we run into trouble as most scripts available are shooting scripts which have camera angles in them.
Ooh, a discussion about "rules" with a definitive end result!
I take note of the word "peeves." With that context, I don't think any of the five can be disputed. I mean, if you have issues with any of them, you're bound to annoy someone. Whether or not that's justified is up for debate, but it's an objective fact that these "peeves" do get on *some* writers' nerves.
Of course, the point is to provide new writers some tips which will guide them on the right path. For the most part, I agree with all of them, but of course, they all contain some nuance (except for spelling, I suppose). Rather than endlessly split hairs to come up with the perfect language that covers every single caveat for each "peeve," why not just include a disclaimer that says in a nutshell what so many writers have said here before: that these "rules" aren't rules so much as guidelines, that there are exceptions, and that with experience, one will learn when it's appropriate to bend/break the "rules," but that they are helpful guidelines to follow when just starting out. Honestly, at some point, you have to grant people some common sense and allow them to make their own mistakes. Besides, if this list is to serve as an entryway for new writers into the site/boards (as I understand it to be) and not some definitive manifesto that represents the site as a whole, they'll have plenty of time to discuss "we see" and passive voice in future threads. Those debates happen all the time around here.
i think when it comes to new writers it's just better to stick to the main points. Keep things in absolutes. Learn the basics first.
Let's not over complicate this with grey areas. Give them bullet points in black and white. Do and do not. They can learn the nooks and crannies as they go.
My suggestion was to learn what an unfilmable is and avoid it until you've written 5 features.
What brought me into this thread was not to continue an old argument that people are sick of. What brought me in was that this was a great example of exactly how it happens. There is a desire to teach newbs with rules that are as simple and as few as possible, black and white rules. Not real rules, though, merely teaching rules. Training wheels.
But then what happens is that these things crystallize into actual rules for many people. And I think there are a lot of veteran amateur writers here, very smart and talented people, whose writing will break out into a new level if they realize these rules don't exist in the world you want to be in - the professional world. Throw off the training wheels!! Where the rules help you write better...yes, stick to them. But there is a point where they actually get in the way of truly good writing. How can that possibly be a good thing? It's not. That's why no pros write that way. None. Zero. It's not a coincidence.
Thank you so much for the input. I'm going to tap on the brakes on this a little. Bear in mind, this is going to be an email to a new writer who submit scripts.
As one who reads a shit ton of screenplays every day (On average I post 30 scripts a week. For everyone 1 script posted, I reject 2 to 3 and the primary reason is the formatting renders the work unintelligible. Second is spelling and grammar.
So, the main thrust of this is going to be - formatting - get yourself some screenwriting software. Try a free one at first and if you are going to continue, then move up.
The minor thrusts are going to be camera, we see and passive voice.
I am not trying to cure brain cancer. I am trying to be as helpful and positive and succinct as possible to the first time screen writer.
Big picture - everyone is sorta, kinda saying the same thing which is very helpful.
My suggestion was to learn what an unfilmable is and avoid it until you've written 5 features.
What brought me into this thread was not to continue an old argument that people are sick of. What brought me in was that this was a great example of exactly how it happens. There is a desire to teach newbs with rules that are as simple and as few as possible, black and white rules. Not real rules, though, merely teaching rules. Training wheels.
But then what happens is that these things crystallize into actual rules for many people. And I think there are a lot of veteran amateur writers here, very smart and talented people, whose writing will break out into a new level if they realize these rules don't exist in the world you want to be in - the professional world. Throw off the training wheels!! Where the rules help you write better...yes, stick to them. But there is a point where they actually get in the way of truly good writing. How can that possibly be a good thing? It's not. That's why no pros write that way. None. Zero. It's not a coincidence.
Yep - I also have one over arching paradigm - Don't forget that you are trying to engage a reader.
If violating a rule (e.g., unfilmables, uses of asides, etc) gets the page turned - then do it.
Thank you so much for the input. I'm going to tap on the brakes on this a little. Bear in mind, this is going to be an email to a new writer who submit scripts.
As one who reads a shit ton of screenplays every day (On average I post 30 scripts a week. For everyone 1 script posted, I reject 2 to 3 and the primary reason is the formatting renders the work unintelligible. Second is spelling and grammar.
So, the main thrust of this is going to be - formatting - get yourself some screenwriting software. Try a free one at first and if you are going to continue, then move up.
The minor thrusts are going to be camera, we see and passive voice.
I am not trying to cure brain cancer. I am trying to be as helpful and positive and succinct as possible to the first time screen writer.
Big picture - everyone is sorta, kinda saying the same thing which is very helpful.
- Don
Ooops - didn't see the breaks tapped. Anyway - looking forward to this
Pages: 
Author
Top Five New Writer Peeves (and How to Help Them)
Logged
seek out other screenwriters to compare reads. Review their work. AND MAKE YOUR REVIEWS MEANINGFUL. Dig into to story and just tell them what you honestly like and don't like. This is why I myself don't share reads of features anymore and why I don't post features here. Because I don't want to owe people a lengthy read when they didn't really help me. If I read your feature I am going to TRY HARD to give you useful notes. That will take at least a few hours of my time. Why would I do that if you read my features and say "nice work, really dig the pop sickle scene!" If your notes don't help the reader, why should he invest the time in your script? And TRUST YOURSELF. You might be new, but your opinion on story is as good as anyone else's. So dig in, think about what you are reading, and give REAL feedback. That WILL be valued by the reader, and you'll make lasting and indispensable connections that way.
Locked Board